Listen to a Conservative Judge Brutally Destroy Arguments Against Gay Marriage

[PeaceNikki]

Things are looking good, WI and IN!!!

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/08/27/listen_to_judge_richard_posner_destroy_arguments_against_gay_marriage.html

Judge Richard Posner of the 7th Circuit Court is a moderate conservative with an unapologetic bias toward reality and logic. This bias makes him an ideal Slate columnist. It has also turned him into something of an iconoclast among his conservative colleagues, who frequently jettison prudence and precedent in order to achieve results that just happen to align with the Republican Party’s platform.

On Tuesday, Posner put his judicial independence front and center during marriage equality oral arguments at the 7th Circuit. While lawyers for Wisconsin and Indiana attempted to defend their state’s marriage bans, Posner issued a series of withering bench slaps that unmasked anti-gay arguments as the silly nonsense that they are. Reading this string of brutal retorts is fun enough—but it’s even better to listen to them delivered in Posner’s own distinctive cadence. With the help of my Slate colleague Jeff Friedrich, I’ve collected the most exhilarating, satisfying, and hilarious of the bunch.

Round 1: Posner vs. Indiana

“Would you criminalize fornication?”


After asking Fisher why Indiana shouldn’t just “criminalize fornication” in order to deal with its “unintended child problem,” Posner returned to the child question, demanding of Fisher, “Why do you prefer heterosexual adoption to homosexual adoption?” When Fisher struggles to respond, Posner sighs, “Come on now. You’re going in circles.” He then asks why Indiana wants to punish children because “their parents happen to be homosexual.”

“Why does Indiana let sterile people marry?”


Posner points out that Indiana allows both sterile people and first cousins (over the age of 65) to marry. If marriage is all about biological reproduction, Posner wonders, aren’t these policies irrational? Fisher errs at first, claiming, “We don’t allow incest.” When corrected, he founders.

Round 2: Posner vs. Wisconsin

“Who’s being harmed? Answer my question!”


In the day’s testiest exchange, Posner pushes Samuelson to identify a single rational basis for his state’s anti-gay-marriage law. Who is being helped, Posner wonders, by gay marriage bans? When Samuelson claims that “society” is helped by gay marriage bans, Posner pushes back: “How is it being helped? You’re not trying to force homosexuals into heterosexual marriage. So what is the harm of allowing these people to marry? Does it hurt heterosexual marriage? Does it hurt children?”

When Samuelson’s yellow light flashes, signaling that he’s running out of time, Posner encourages him to continue. Judge Ann Claire Williams jumps in, informing Samuelson that the light “won’t save you.” The courtroom erupts in laughter. A defeated Samuelson responds, “It was worth a shot.”

Much more at link.....

[raven mad]

1. I am so tired of my sweet niece and her wife not being able to visit home.

Because Alaska has the same archaic laws - so their marriage isn't recognized, and if one were injured or ill, forget about it!

Hopefully we'll soon be able to say "another one bites the dust" in IN & WI. The judge may be a conservative but he's obviously well-versed on law and the Constitution. Thank you for the post!

[TheMightyFavog]

2. Posner had this to say in an NPR interview a few years back:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/07/05/156319272/federal-judge-richard-posner-the-gop-has-made-me-less-conservative

"I've become less conservative since the Republican Party started becoming goofy"

[hifiguy]

5. i have not always agreed with Judge Posner, but anyone

who doubts his intellectual firepower is a fool. He didn't leave the Repugs, they left him.

ETA: When Posner was done with those klowns there was nothing left but two pairs of smoking shoes. That was one of the most epic judicial smackdowns I have ever heard or read about.

[peabody]

3. Wow, that was brutal.

I would hate to have been those two lawyers trying to defend the ban on gay marriage; they were stammering like idiots in front of the judge. I sort of felt embarrassed for them but still it was fun to hear them being taken apart.

[PeaceNikki]

4. Really odd that our AG JB Van Hollen (R-Asshole) isn't arguing this himself

[hifiguy]

6. A smart lawyer will send an underling when s/he knows

that they are going to get shot out of a cannon by the judge, which is just what Posner did here. I saw it a couple of times in my years as a clerk for trial judges. It generally means that the top lawyer on the case knows they do not have a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Time to send in the cannon fodder.

[PeaceNikki]

9. Yeah, I suppose. He's not running for reelection

So he'll be gone in a few months anyway.

[MFrohike]

7. One thing

Posner is not a "moderate conservative." He's been in the forefront of the very successful effort to neuter our antitrust laws and direct all jurisprudence toward an explicit worship of money and power. If only he'd apply that "formidable" intellect to his own philosophy.

[bluesbassman]

8. "It was worth a shot".

Last edited Thu Aug 28, 2014, 07:32 PM - Edit history (1)

Hell of a thing to hang one's ideology on: How much shit is left clinging to a wall after throwing a pile at it.

[PeaceNikki]

10. It's ridiculous that they are spending taxpayer money to fight this.

They are only appealing to appease Walker and his base for the upcoming midterms. They know it's a lost cause and aren't even trying, just going through the motions it seems.