General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen someone leaves DU and posts a GBCW post,
I almost never comment in that thread. However, I do read such posts carefully to try to learn why. It's usually approximately the same reason. I don't always agree with the people who leave, but I certainly understand their reasons for doing so.
Those reasons sadden me. They almost always have to do with being treated poorly by other DUers who disagreed in general with what the poster who is leaving had to say on DU.
Too bad to see people leave because they were treated poorly. Truly.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)still_one
(92,190 posts)Maven
(10,533 posts)caraher
(6,278 posts)Where is it?
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)newfie11
(8,159 posts)still_one
(92,190 posts)What is perhaps more telling is some of the comments to such threads are outright mean, which is of course is their right, but in my view reflects badly on them
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)And I have to admit that I've been guilty of acting my shoe-size at times. But now I've taken the position that I just won't respond, and won't continue feuding with someone whose mind is clearly already made up.
Taking the oxygen away will kill all fires.
Iris
(15,653 posts)It's not so much fun here anymore.
IADEMO2004
(5,554 posts)libodem
(19,288 posts)It's like a suicide note. It isn't to be mocked or scorned. It's sad. One of those posters was on ignore for most of my time here.
I had wondered why some stay after reading comments trashing this site for supposedly being sexist and misogynistic and an unsafe place to be. Why would someone stay who seemed to dislike the place so much?
Best of luck to both in finding a new happy home.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)Is it Good Bye Cruel World????
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)betsuni
(25,519 posts)When leaving DU for whatever causes,
Then people long to go on pilgrimages.
To Waterloo they wend,
Grace Baptist Church where they will mend.
IADEMO2004
(5,554 posts)aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)I assume the decision was made because of a fundamental disagreement with more than one DUer over one particular issue the long-time poster holds dear. I think that's a shame because in each case, I think while they may have thought of themselves as primarily a one-issue poster, I've read a variety of good posts by them on a number of issues. I have my own issues that I don't care to argue about myself anymore because they are too important and disagreements engender strong resentments. At times I've disappeared into the Lounge until my feelings mend. But I always seem to come back and participate in other discussions. Again, these disappearing posters for the most part were much bigger and interesting to me than one issue over which they may have taken offense. I think they should try to see the bigger picture.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)and expect to get away with it - because they're special.
The problem is often a fractured ego, because the community just doesn't realize how special they are.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)MineralMan
(146,307 posts)Expect comments. I do.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,021 posts)In at least one (if not both) of those cases, there was a smug and palpable moral superiority on display at nearly all times that broached not the slightest disagreement.
Even agreement in principle was not enough for one of those GBCW folks. Any slight difference was enough to castigate and demean and it happened over and over and over.
And, i'm not one of the "disgree-ers" because i smoked out the faux superiority long ago.
I'm suprised you got fished in.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)There are many DUers with whom I disagree, but we manage to be civil.
ProfessorGAC
(65,021 posts)We don't need to be disagreeable to disgagree.
madokie
(51,076 posts)If someone treats me like shit and I don't have a comeback for it I just blow it off. Trust me when I say I've been treated like shit on this site too but like I said, f*'m
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Once you've pegged someone as a time-wasting shit-stirrer, you might as well move on to productive discussions. You're not going to change their mind or their behavior, and nobody really cares who "wins" an argument on DU.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)defense mechanism. I just can't take insults on an anonymous website all that seriously. I have also lived long enough to be realistic...not everyone is going to think I'm great. But enough do in my real life that it's fine.
madokie
(51,076 posts)is not giving a f* about what others might think about us. I do what life has taught me is right and don't worry much with the rest. I'm not always right nor am I always wrong either.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)well, that and compassion. Otherwise, I'd be seriously disgruntled.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,574 posts)Being old, or as I call it 'experienced' has its advantages.
But what continually amazes me is the way many of these attack posts are written. People write things here that I can't ever believe they'd say to me face to face. Except Tater Guy It's fascinating really.................
madokie
(51,076 posts)Ineeda
(3,626 posts)I've been bemoaning the proliferation of meanness in general, not just here. But I equate meanness as a repub characteristic, so it's particularly upsetting to see it so often, and entirely unnecessarily on DU. I just wish everybody could just make their points without being such goddamn jerks about it. Grow up people, please.
betsuni
(25,519 posts)It's the same "Your so dumb, libtards" (and endless nitpicking) that's everywhere, but with better spelling. Vexing, but of course they enjoy vexing people.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)Some of us here retaliate with nastiness of our own, such as:
"Rethugs"
"Repukes"
calling attention to Conservatives'/Republicans' features or characteristics rather than their politics (Chris Christie is a "fat pig". Michelle Bachmann has "batshit crazy eyes". etc.)
Grave-dancing whenever a well-known Conservative or Republican dies.
Aren't liberals supposed to be above that sort of thing? I would think so. But there are always a group of individuals who defend that kind of behavior. Embrace it, even.
sad.
betsuni
(25,519 posts)Heidi
(58,237 posts)on anyone who treated you badly, madokie.
hlthe2b
(102,265 posts)whether due to hurt pride or other reason. I think that is unfortunate.
We've all been hurt or embarrassed or frustrated or angered over something or other in the past. Taking a well deserved break is, I think the best option. When one returns, rarely does anyone remember anything that happened and the memory has generally softened for the offended as well.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Those kind of threads are an integral part of social forums.
By the way, I rely on your comments to get political news from Colorado, so if and when you decide to stop posting at the DU, I would like it if you would write a GBCW thread, so I would not wonder what had happened to you.
When Tx4Obama just stopped posting here suddenly, it really bugged me.
Life is short.
Carpe diem.
hlthe2b
(102,265 posts)if I do...
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)that it's about civility, not disagreements in and of themselves. I would be hard pressed to believe that any of us expect complete agreement with all of our posts, yet the responses can be civil in their nature.
I know not too long ago I took a 3 month break and simply stopped posting, without the GBCW type of post. I PM'ed a couple of folks and let them know it was break time. I am sure many of us have taken time away for various reasons.
DU serves me as a news feed and a place to post when I find reason to do so. That said, I have found other sources of news and places to discuss topics as well. DU is a segment of my online world and I have chosen to make it a smaller one due to the lack of civility that I have found.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)and I felt very refreshed by the time I came back. I didn't feel the need to post a "poor me, goodbye" post.
conservaphobe
(1,284 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,021 posts)Thanks
cui bono
(19,926 posts)bigtree and redqueen. Were there others?
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)I didn't always agree with them, but they had my respect. Sad.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Bigtree broke down issues very well for me. Redqueen helped hone the feminist angle on issues that needed to be said.
These are people we need to shape and develop our discourse here. I don't blame them for saying "Enough! I'm wasting my time and effort." They will go and contribute somewhere else and DU will be poorer for it. Damnit!
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)asked for her account to be closed.
I did not know this. Although she and I seldom saw eye to eye, and although I am undeniably guilty of poking fun at her, I regret her leaving.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)login. She's not on FB, either, these days.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)She'll be back here too, wait and see.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)posted for a while. It appears she read this thread, too, so maybe she's planning to return to DU as well.
SixString
(1,057 posts)Yet here he is trotting around on his high horse.
Short memories and what not.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Here is one of my favorite memories of her...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9206376
treestar
(82,383 posts)and the excerpts from the East County News on them.
And the spies at Comic-con
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)I hope she comes back.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Some bring the grief they get on themselves by how they treat others. There's two sides to every argument, and some people just refuse to accept that.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Sometimes, people just can't stand your position on some things or on anything, and they respond with, "WTF have you been smoking?" or "What a dumbass post" or "Are you fucking stupid?!". I mean, really, are those responses necessary? I used to respond in kind, but then it became a shouting match with many of that poster's pals joining in then alerting on my posts.
So now, if I don't like the tone of a response, I respond by either ignoring it and moving on or putting them on full ignore - or both. I've learned that life's too short to fret about rudeness.
Warpy
(111,255 posts)no matter how constructively it is stated, is disagreement with them. There seems to be a disconnect with the fact that we all post bullshit from time to time and we all richly deserve to be called on it.
It's very easy to disagree with something in the post without being disagreeable to the poster.
What seems to be difficult for a lot of people is considering that a post might be wrong.
I usually have to walk away for an hour or two, then do the research I should have done before posting before I realize I was talking out of my hat.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)disagreement and attack. I can tell the difference, because I have experienced both.
ProfessorGAC
(65,021 posts)You say you see the difference between disagreement and attack. The problem is i doubt the posters in question do. To some folks, and i'll include recent examples, every disagreement is an attack on their very existence.
That's unhealthy and quite pompous.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)Civility should still be maintained.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)We're living in a world now where so many of us, probably especially many of us on this board are feeling as much difficulty in dealing with life experiences that they have ever felt with:
1) the economy basically making everyone broke and providing job experiences that aren't as rewarding spiritually, friendships, and for some just feel abusive at times, but situations where they couldn't bail out of as much as they used to be able to in the past when it got to that point. Families are ripping apart in many cases with these situations too, making things worse.
2) increased health problems with more problems with poverty, health insurance issues along with debt, etc. that makes it harder for people just to cope with feeling well all day.
3) Very divisive issues in politics where we all feel the NEED to build many movements to do something TODAY to fix the problems that seem so entrenched in front of us. Those that stand in the way of us seem a lot more threatening and more obstacles we need to "knock down" than they used to when we were trying to just build "awareness campaigns" when there was less sense of urgency.
4) The businesses you've been used to, the social venues both online and in the real world are also all feeling the economic pain and are either shutting down in many cases or completely changing, which affects those that use them and disrupt their lives too.
5) When this gets compounded, I think we feel more isolated when we're dealing more with these sorts of issues and other distractions that make it harder to interact with the people around us. There are increased suicides now, and we're becoming more aware of that after what happened to Robin Williams.
DU has been a place where people came together and tried to seek common ground with fellow members, gathering information we all cared about, and finding ways to build consensus on we could deal with the political environment around us. We may have had our disagreements at times, but enough of us were secure in our own lives, and felt there was enough common ground, and less sense of urgency than today to feel like we needed to get in to more nasty arguments and divisions here. Unfortunately I think that is changing. Many feel the need to build their own movements, which in the absence in some cases of other things of value in their lives, becomes their mission, and the need to "shut down" opposition to these movements so that they can build more power to do what they want them to do. When we get splits on issues like who should we support for president and run the party, respect each other's gender and race, amongst other things, people take it a lot more personally than we used to. Sometimes I don't think we realize when we go to far how much we also might be hurting others the same way we're feeling hurt ourselves.
It's sad, because I think if ultimately people could all look at each others' measuring sticks and how we each had to deal with life's issues day to day, we'd probably discover a lot of agreement on what needs attention and how to deal with it.
I think what I would ask is that everyone take a step back, especially if they're dealing with problems of their own that they feel are unique to them and realize that we're all dealing with a lot more adversity today, and that unless we find ways to come together to deal with that adversity, this place will continue to be a place that people leave from. And hopefully don't feel that they have to go so far in leaving as Robin Williams did, rest his soul!
Maybe if you can't agree with someone on certain political issues, we can find ways to appeal to each other in ways to make up for all of the other difficult parts of life we're all dealing with now, and at least be a source of personal friendships that could help restore this place as a valuable place in so many peoples' lives.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)I appreciate it very much.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)It is tough out there.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)They almost always have to do with being treated poorly by other DUers who disagreed in general with what the poster who is leaving had to say on DU.
As much as I hate to say this, I've been on the receiving end of shit myself, from a certain few, including even as much as stalking, and even a couple of false accusations of racism on occasion. Yes, it's been that bad sometimes.
I've tried to tough it out, but I'm thinking about taking an actual break from this site, or at least away from GD anyway.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)n/t
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)I've seen this not just among posters, but even among jurors, and it disturbs me.
mimi85
(1,805 posts)bother to say a big farewell. I would just leave.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)of doing things. I have no problem with that.
mimi85
(1,805 posts)Just curious as the "why" of it which others have articulated quite well.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)One would do it if they think they should be missed terribly.
Put it another way, if you think there's a risk you won't be invited to your going away party, better to just fill your pockets with office supplies and walk out the back.
mimi85
(1,805 posts)great response! No wonder I have so many envelopes with Adelphia's name on them.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)it's awfully hard to play the final act in the "I'm a Victim" passion play if one just leaves without a word.
How can a victim let everyone know what horrible pieces of shit they are if they just up and leave without a word? Without a GBCW "you all stink" boo-hoo fest.
Just make a private explanation to those they know will care, and let it go.
I've lived with enough "victims" and martyrs to have seen that drama many times. And maybe it makes me cynical, but that's how it is.
Having said that, though, I never comment on the GBCW posts, either positively or negatively.
Not going to get sucked into someone else's game...and believe me, whether the comments are good or bad, it's still getting sucked into the game either way.
mimi85
(1,805 posts)I'm def going to follow your example. Enjoy the weekend!
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)From my perspective, the long time people who leave are those who have shaped the DU zeitgeist and have written the prevailing doctrine. Those who are on the fringes of it, hang in there year after year, suffering the collective abuse.
When one has an expectation that everyone MUST agree with them about issues they feel strongly about (and they feel strongly about them all) to be suitable company, it seems that one is most vulnerable to every perceived slight.
― Edward Abbey
I find spidergirl's butt an odd bonfire on which to self-immolate... but what do I know.
seaglass
(8,171 posts)level of sexism/misogyny on DU and the tolerance of it by DUers and Admins was finally enough. That's my semi-educated insight anyways.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)It is truly disgusting what the admins allow on here.
But you know, community sets the standards and all that. Isn't that why they don't put civil rights issues up for a vote? Because the majority would vote down minority rights. Same type of thing going on here. Some things need to be set in stone as far as rules go but for some reason the admins aren't able to take a stand on simple issues such as equality and respect.
valerief
(53,235 posts)get the red out
(13,466 posts)I pretty much do the same, except in some instances where I have paid special attention to the posts of the person leaving and agree with them or are challenged to see things in a new way by them.
I think sometimes our passionate stands on things (myself included for sure) make the atmosphere tense, at times it goes beyond even mere tension.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)about them being treated poorly personally.
For example, redqueen was outspoken on feminist issues and there is a contingent of anti-feminism people on here who insist on going into threads and continue the backwards thinking about women and women's issues. This is really something that one would think would not be tolerated on DU, just as blatant racism is not (I believe it is not tolerated, though some people don't believe white privilege exists which is astounding, but you don't get to post pics of out and out racism on here and have them vigorously defended and not have the thread locked as has happened with the objectification of women OPs).
It's not just feminism, it's the aforementioned white privilege stances, the homophobic stances, the bullying. I swear when there are threads about bullying in the general society everyone thinks it's just awful, but I bet some of those same people are on here bullying other DUers because they said something they didn't like.
It gets tiring to be on a board that is so conservative at times when it purports to be a board about Democrats and presumably Democratic Party principles, presumably because too many on here are playing party politics and simply defending the actions of anyone who decided to put a "D" after their name rather than stand up for progressive principles.
That's another reason people get sick of DU. It gets tiring to have people ridicule well thought out posts that are about defending principles that we should all stand for just because by doing so one criticizes Dems who are in power. And because of that the person defending democratic principles gets treated to snark, being called names and a barrage of smilies while the posts have nothing of any substance in them at all. That comes down to whether you do politics as a "team player" or as a principled analyst. The team players tend to not respond to issues, just to the criticism. They attack the messenger - be it a reporter or a DUer - rather than discuss the issues. These methods are taken out of the GOP/Rove/Teabagger playbook. They are. And they are employed on here on a regular basis. There are things that should be completely disallowed but DU would rather be moderated by a malfunctioning jury system. So be it.
The conservative stances and the conservative methods are enough to drive any thoughtful poster from this site. Most people seem to deal with it in various ways - ignore function or standing up to it. Some choose to leave it.
treestar
(82,383 posts)here in general - the person is lashing back at that. But IMO it's better to take a break and then just show up again. The announcement just gets the person more snark. And one snarky post in a Goodbye post ruins that other hundreds of caring responses - the please don't leaves and you are valuable compliments get drowned by one person saying don't let the door hit ya types of posts.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)That's too bad, really, but I can't imagine that it will stop. I've even posted a snarky reply or two from time to time, although I try not to do that. I've never taken a break from DU. I don't have anyone on ignore, either, although there are times when that's tempting. I have a pretty tough skin, though. Not everyone does.
The two people who recently announced that they were leaving, though, do have tough skins, I think. Bigtree always writes thoughfully, and I learn from those posts. RedQueen, too, writes thoughtfully, and has her own unique perspective and focus. I don't always agree with her 100%, and she is quick to reply when I post something that is not clear regarding women. We get along OK, though, for the most part.
I'll miss both of them and their unique voices. I learn from most serious posters on DU. There are other kinds of posters who teach little, though and from whom I learn virtually nothing. Those I ignore in a different way. I see their posts and just shrug. With some, I've stopped engaging at all.
And for completeness, there are posters who find my presence here unsuitable. Everyone has an opinion, though, so they're entitled, although I'll be sticking around, despite that.
Rex
(65,616 posts)MineralMan
(146,307 posts)Since I wrote it and it says what it says. But, still, thanks for the kick. Maybe some more people will comment in the thread.
Rex
(65,616 posts)to kick things I read back to the top.
Nevada Blue
(130 posts)manifesto is what we used to call it in other forums I've participated in.
I much prefer the GBCW moniker.
While not involved enough here at DU as a poster (yet) to comment in such a thread, I see no reason not to, especially if there is an emotional involvement with the person leaving. Some of you have been here since the beginning (I've been reading almost that long) and friendships of a sort develop.
But snarking in such a thread seems mean-spirited. It may be my imagination but it seems things have gotten more mean-spirited here in the past year or so. Could just be the way I read things, or the threads I choose to read, dunno.
Anyway, point was, GBCW is more clever than manifesto. (I'm too wordy for this board)
SixString
(1,057 posts)I especially like this part:
"I've had many people post kind words. I've also been called a troll, a liberal, a DUer, and much, much worse. I'm none of those things."
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)put it down and walked away for a bit, a point I made so inartfully that my thread was locked. It's a tough place to be unpopular 24/7/365. The swarming militants (read control freaks) made the rules. A break always does wonders for me.