SYG was the reason Zimmerman was not initially arrested and why he won't face 1st degree murder

[morningfog]

Had it not been for the SYG law, he may have been arrested and charged the night of the murder. The local cops conceded that is why they didn't arrest him.

That is what led to this protracted media circus and national campaign in pursuit of justice. That failure to initially arrest, based on a SYG "defense" has similarly insulated Zimmerman from the charge of murder in the first degree.

At least the prosecutor has charged him with second degree.

[leftyohiolib]

1. syg for someone who grabs a gun hops in his truck and tracks down an unarmed child

and shoots him. syg really? sounds like hunting to me.

[LAGC]

2. I thought I read that the police and local prosecutor were fully prepared to charge him THAT NIGHT..

...until the state attorney general stepped in and cut him loose (probably at the behest of his ex-judge daddy).

I suspect nepotism is more at fault here than SYG.

[exboyfil]

7. I wonder if the investigator and local prosecutor

filed CYA memos. I sure would if my judgement was overruled.

[EFerrari]

10. The investigator did file an affidavit.

Don't know about the prosecutor if there was one.

[Solomon]

3. Racism is the reason Zimmeeman was nor charged

Simple as that.

[EFerrari]

11. Btw, the Grand Jury met for the first time yesterday

in the case of the White Plains police killing of Kenneth Chamberlain Sr. And, a coroner has found Mr. Chamberlain wasn't facing the police or holding a weapon when he was shot as the police had alleged. Amy has been following closely this week.

[eomer]

4. I don't see what SYG had to do with first versus second degree murder.

To be first degree rather than second it had to be pre-meditated. If there were evidence of that then surely SYG would not apply. So SYG can't be the reason for second rather than first. The reason is just that it wasn't in fact (or at least there's no evidence that it was) pre-meditated.

[obamanut2012]

6. Exactly -- you beat me to it

[cali]

5. how do you know? And why weren't these two charged with first degree murder?

ST. JOHNSBURY, Vt. — The couple accused of killing a Vermont prep school teacher have waived a court hearing that would have reviewed their bail status.

Allen and Patricia Prue were ordered held without bail in the March 25 death of Melissa Jenkins. They have been charged with killing Jenkins after luring her from her St. Johnsbury home with a ruse about a broken down car.

He said he has no plans to ask the court at a later date to review bail.

The Prues have pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder and improper disposal of a body.

<snip>

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/118911161f484d9ea5ed7b844568db14/VT--Vermont-Teacher-Killed/

there's tons of evidence that this was premeditated- including purchase of a disposable cell phone, and they strangled her in front of her two year old son who was in her car when she went to help these fuckwads.

[magical thyme]

8. SYG had nothing to do with 1st versus 2nd degree

1st degree is much harder to prove than 2nd degree. It would be *very* easy to provide other possible motives for his following Trayvon with his gun. He was a cop wanna-be. He probably thought he'd get "in" with them if he apprehended Trayvon, whom he believed was the black man who had been burglarizing the neighborhood. There's your reasonable doubt, with historical evidence to support it.

[sofa king]

9. I don't think that's all of it.

In Florida First Degree Murder is divided into two groups, premeditated murder and felony murder.

Since premeditated murder would require a confession or some sort of evidence that clearly shows the shooter's intent before the fact (a murky possible epithet hardly counts), it's unlikely this guy can be charged for that.

Felony murder, however, requires proving at least two crimes: the commission of a felony and the commission of a murder while committing that felony. There are plenty of felonies to choose from--aggravated stalking is one of them--but because the defendant's protectors have done such a good job of tainting the jury pool and steering the public debate, a two-step trial may be considered too difficult to win.

The Stand Your Ground bullshit doesn't even need to be debated to cast doubt on the success of this path--it is the high-level influence present in this case from the moment the shooter was sent home from a crime scene with the murder weapon. The chain of evidence is ruined, the forensic investigation is ruined, and now if the shooter doesn't confess himself, it's going to be a pain in the ass to charge him with anything.

Second Degree Murder is easier to prove, but it will also have its problems. The shooter cannot be charged with Felony Accomplice Murder because he was not an accomplice nor did he have one before the fact (he certainly had them after the fact, but they were cops engaged in a cover-up).

Which leaves only Murder with a Depraved Mind:

Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

The primary distinction between Premeditated First Degree Murder and Second Degree Murder with a Depraved Mind is that First Degree Murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill.

It occurs to me that since Depraved Mind appears to be open season on a defendant's character, the course chosen here is designed in part to deeply damage the defendant even if his excellent connections are used to fuck up the investigation, chain of evidence, and trial (as I mentioned before the first thing the defendant's family did was attempt to taint the jury pool, probably in hopes of getting off on the Oliver North technicality, so I think we can expect Z's allies inside the force to drop the ball on the investigation repeatedly).

It may be designed to place pressure on the defendant and his defenders, to elicit a confession and a plea bargain before the trial begins, an approach more realistic than the public wishes, but also an approach which appears to factor in the defendant's powerful influence and high-level manipulation.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. You need to get your facts straight

The police wanted to charge him that night and were overruled

Why it cannot be first degree murder was covered well in another post.

SYG requires that the shooting qualify as legal self defense. If it does not, SYG does not apply.

[dballance]

13. We Obviously Need some Cases like this to help Police understand when SYG applies

The FL SYG law was passed but I doubt anyone tried to educate the boots on the ground what it really means and when it applies.

As a reasonable person I'd think a SYG law applies as long as I'm in my house or within the confines of my property.

I wouldn't think it applies if I'm on public or commercial property or other another person's property who I don't even know.

Of course, Zimmerman is not a reasonable person.

[dkf]

14. Just the fact that neighborhood watches tell people not to use guns or follow someone means those

are normal impulses. If it was unusual it would not be mentioned.