Sadly, electing Bernie won't help

[hootinholler]

Unless we can give him a cooperative Congress as well.

I hope when he campaigns he points this out.

[Louisiana1976]

1. True--he'll need a Democratic Congress to do any good.

[djean111]

4. As will ANY Dem who wins that election.

Always makes me laugh when Hillary fans squawk that a GOP Congress will not work with Bernie or anyone else who is Not Hillary.
As if they would work with Hillary on anything the least bit Progressive. I am afraid of what they would actually work with her on, to be clear.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Yup. Republicans won't work with ANY Dem no matter what unless...

they get 100% of what they want. This is obvious and clear since the GOPers took over the House in 2010.

The only solution is to vote them out.

That's it.

[treestar]

17. The GOP would not work with Hillary either

They've become fanatics.

[MannyGoldstein]

22. As do all schoolyard bullies

Until you knock out a few teeth.

[treestar]

23. It's not a schoolyard

It's a carefully set up process described in the Constitution. It's about being civilized. The powers are spread out so that bullies don't get to have their way due to superior strength. You're simply for the bullies being the ones on your side.

[Cali_Democrat]

2. You're just realizing this? LOL

I mean....that never occured to you after watching this Congress block almost everything from fair pay to unemployment extensions?

The least productive Congress in history.

[hootinholler]

3. I absolutely adore

Condescension.

Thanks Tweety

[morningfog]

11. It's what they do best, er, solely.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Part of a President's job is to make this happen

Many tools at his disposal.

But it begins by trying.

[treestar]

9. No, it is not

the people of each state elect their Congressmen.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. The President has two relevant functions here.

As the leader of the Democratic Party, she needs to lead the charge in showing the American people that Democrats will help them.

Second, he needs to use carrots and sticks to get Congress to cooperate.

[treestar]

14. The President is not leader of the Democratic party

we don't have a parliamentary system. If the President is Republican, then the Democratic party would be leaderless?

The Constitution doesn't say the POTUS has any "carrots" or "sticks." If defines his/her powers clearly.

[Hippo_Tron]

29. The President is the de facto leader of his political party

When the party is out of power, the House and Senate leaders as well as the party chair become the party's de facto leaders.

[Caretha]

43. LBJ was

one of the best "arm twisters" we ever had.

The list of accomplishments in the "civil rights" category during his administration has not been beat, imho.

He was a real asshole - guess that's what it takes sometimes.

[Cleita]

7. Bernie has a lot of friends and connections in Congress he has

cultivated over his terms in office for as a representative of the House and then later as Senator. Those connections count in getting bills through Congress. Unfortunately, our present President does not have this.

[treestar]

10. For goodness sake!

That would not be enough! Even a Democratic Congress would not do what Bernie wants! We want what Bernie wants, but making him POTUS would not be enough. And a nation that would elect Bernie POTUS anyway is a dream nation, or at least, will not exist by 2016.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. Why is Liberal Elizabeth Warren in demand by Dem candidates in red states,

While self-described 1980s Republican Barack Obama is persona non grata?

Because Americans are Liberal, even if they don't understand what the word means.

[treestar]

15. Nonresponsive to the post responded to

President Obama is not perona non grata in any blue state.

[MannyGoldstein]

20. LOL.

E.g., http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/red-state-democrats-run-from-obama

This nation is ready for a Liberal.

[treestar]

26. Yeah, right, the nation that elects a Republican Congress

is very liberal.

But then you continue to insist if only the POTUS was tough enough, the Republicans would fall in line.

Of course red state Democrats have to be whatever names you usually call Democrats who don't fall in line.

[Ken Burch]

21. Following that line of argument, nothing will help at all, no matter what.

Basically that reduces us to "it's enough to have slightly NICER wars-and recycling baskets on Death Row".

[treestar]

25. That's oversimplified

There is no automatic fix to the whole of the polity - the people are always going to be moving left, and at various speeds. What I object to is the idea that the President is supposed to be the only one who gets his or her way entirely, and they should be so magnetic and charismatic a personality that they get the branches independent of them to do what they want. Presumably with "tough" rhetoric. And that's what's being touted here. Bernie can get it all! Well, no. You'd have to see a separate set of voters than the ones who exist now in order for Congress to be willing to pass laws Bernie would want.

If Obama was not charismatic enough to get Republicans to vote for single payer, then Bernie's not going to be!

[Recursion]

37. Nothing much good will happen in the next 6 years, true

There isn't all that much that can be done to change the trajectory more than we did in the 2008-2010 period, and we're paying for that because we did so much that the backlash got Republicans elected in state houses and they'll control the redistricting process until the next census. (Why, incidentally, are we still using an apportionment system based on the constraints of 18th-century technology?)

This is a big ship; it turns slowly.

[Ken Burch]

40. And why are we still keeping the size of the U.S. House at 435 seats?

That's the size it was in 1920...when the U.S. population was half the size it is now. We should go back to the House being, say, 1 rep per every 600,000 people or so, with no arbitrary size limit.

[Recursion]

41. Have you ever seen the House:5000 initiative? (I think it's called that)

It proposes a 5,000 person House of Representatives (I may be flaking on the actual number; it's whatever the ratio of people to Representatives was in 1789). Most of the work would be done in committees in various locations on various topics with all plenary sessions done remotely.

[Ken Burch]

42. Hadn't seen that. Interesting idea. n/t.

[Tarheel_Dem]

36. Tell us what influential legislation Bernie has authored and gotten through Congress to a law?

Unfortunately, there is none. Bernie's been on the Hill longer than a lot of us have been alive. If his "friends and connections" were of any value to him, there'd be no need for him to run for President.

[Recursion]

38. He's done some very good floor amendments, and he was instrumental in passing ACA

Again, through his floor amendment wizardry. However, that's exactly the sort of skill that doesn't at all translate into being President...

[Cleita]

39. He's not Reid or Pelosi in his present position, but if he were I think

he would be better at it. My senator Barbara Boxer is only one senator but would be dynamite if she had the power of Senate leader. Your premise is not a valid one.

[Tarheel_Dem]

45. I think you should re-read your own premise, then we'll talk about "valid".

[Cali_Democrat]

48. See my reply below

#47.

If Bernie's got all these connections, why couldn't he work his magic to get bills these through Congress when the GOP blocked everything?

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. If his so-called "influence" were what we're hearing it is, why didn't we get single payer?

Why was there such a kerfuffle about Dodd-Frank? Why has there been no immigration bill? Why are we still trying to get a national minimum wage hike? I mean, if Bernie was the be-all & end-all, shouldn't we be in a different place? And why does he have to be in the White House to make the difference if he's got all these "connections"?

[Cali_Democrat]

47. If Bernie has so many connections that count....

Why couldn't he work his 'connections' and get the Fair Pay Act through Congress? What about the unemployment extension for the long term unemployed? Or what about the minimum wage increase?

Legislation that would have helped millions of struggling Americans...stopped cold by the GOP in Congress.

Millions of Americans fucked over by the GOP and Bernie just sat back and never used his 'connections' to get these bills through?

Surely Bernie and his 'connections' could have got these bills through? I mean, like you said, he's cultivated a lot of friends and connections in Congress.

[Tarheel_Dem]

50. Sorry, I should've read your response, downthread, first. Great minds.

[Cleita]

52. Because he's not President.

Read about how LBJ Gor things done when he was President not before.

[Cali_Democrat]

53. So in order for a Congressman to get legilsation through the legislative branch of government

He actually has to move to the other branch of government in order to use 'connections' to get legislation through the legislative branch of government he just came from?

Silly.

This is the least productive Congress in History. LBJ had Democratic majorities in Congress, not to mention a filibuster proof Senate in 1964.

You do realize this is the least productive Congress in history. You do realize that the GOP has an overwhelming majority in the House and has blocked everything?


How would Bernie use his 'connections' to get legislation through the GOP-controlled tea party house? Legislation such as the minimum wage increase?

Be specific please.

[Cleita]

56. Be specific?

Bossy aren't you? There are references all over history of how LBJ made his presence known in Congress to get his agenda done. Obama seldom goes to Congress even when he had the majority in both houses, a mistake Bernie would not make.

[Cali_Democrat]

57. Like I said...

LBJ had overwhelming Democratic majorities and a filibuster-proof Senate in 1964.

How exactly could Bernie get something like the minimum wage bill through the GOP-controlled house?

No specifics, eh?

You think he could get the Tea Party to support it?

[Cleita]

58. Betcha he could get the Tea Party to shut up.

Oh wait. He's already done that on MTP.

[treestar]

8. No, no, no, we just need the right POTUS!!!!!!!!

Who will knock heads together and make Congress pass the laws he wants! A real LEADER! A real leader gets everything he wants!!!!

[Ken Burch]

19. Strawman and you know it. n/t.

[cheapdate]

28. Not a strawman. Actual argument put forward by actual persons

right here in this thread. Paraphrased, but accurate.

[Ken Burch]

18. We all know we need a better Congress, too.

But at least electing Bernie would mean fewer wars, Congress be damned.

[dsc]

24. that is a bit of an overstatement

The difference in the amount and type of executive only action that Bernie would take and wouldn't take in comparison to Obama or Clinton isn't no difference but it isn't the collasal huge difference that some here pretend it would be either.

[indepat]

27. TPTB will not allow anyone left of center to be nominated, much less elected. Hell,

how many left-of-center appointments has BHO made to any cabinet or other high-ranking post. Such impertinences will not be tolerated in this new American century.

[G_j]

30. Of course it would

think about who this man is, and how clear and consistant he has remained throughout his career. He is a different animal and whether congress thwarts him or not, the people will love him.

[arcane1]

31. "When he campaigns"? There is an election this year.

Why must we wait until AFTER 2016 to think about congress?

[SoLeftIAmRight]

32. It sure as hell will not hurt

The whole conversation will change

[Report1212]

33. Dont misunderstand the power of the presidency

The president if they were a progressive would have ENORMOUS power through the fed, complete control of foreign policy, the DOJ, bureuacracy etc

[freshwest]

34. He's been campaigning on GOTV. Posted a video and it was the saddest thing I ever saw with him.

I believe he's on his last run with all of this. If those who claim to care don't vote, there's no hope for stopping what the GOP is doing.

The Repubs DO believe in voting. So much so they are willing to spend millions to influence all voters, whipping their own voters into a frenzy as they depress ours.

The reason they try to stop us from voting is that it is that powerful. They would be booted out of the government, or neutered for a generation if we all showed up at the polls.

Bernie said those most effected by the policies of the GOP are the least likely to vote. One man's passionate voice cannot make up for the apathy of millions.

[Cleita]

35. What's wrong with GOTV?

Bernie is not corrupt.

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. That's where Bernie's "influence" or lack thereof, could be invaluable. GOTV. He certainly has a..

devoted following, but then so do Ralph Nader & Sarah Palin. Are their followings enough to win nationally? We'll see.

[n2doc]

44. ...

[pnwmom]

51. If his success as President in working with Congress can be predicted by his success

as a Senator in getting bills through, then he would have a very unproductive Presidency. He has very limited influence with the Senate and none with the House.

[unblock]

54. well, these things take time.

our job is to seriously move the pendulum way back from its ultra-right position.

that isn't going to happen in one election, or even two. having one president like sanders would pull the dialog back toward sanity, and eventually this would have an impact on congressional races.

not that i think he has a realistic chance, though, unfortunately.

[RadicalGeek]

55. Would apply to Warren

Last edited Thu Sep 25, 2014, 11:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Or HRC.

But why not focus on giving the CURRENT President a more responsive Congress in 2014 as well. Let's not get ahead of ourselves!

[upaloopa]

59. If he campaigns I think he will be putting

ideas out there that no other candidate will dare speak about. I think he will not be nominated but at least we will hear some real progressive talking points.

[Cleita]

60. I think that's his plan, however, he said on the radio Friday he's also

prepared to go all the way to the Presidency should he get that far.

[upaloopa]

61. We we can hope

[tazkcmo]

62. He already has.

And if nothing else, he can veto shit.