San Francisco restaurant closes and leaves angry note: "we don't give a f*** about gluten-free"

[Liberal_in_LA]

he owner of a San Francisco Chinese restaurant has temporarily closed his doors with an abrupt notice due to what he calls 'hard to please' customers.

Owner and chef James Chu put a sign on his door stating: 'We're closed because of you customers. Yes, we use MSG! We don't believe in organic food. And we don't give a f*** about gluten-free.'

The owner of So Restaurant said he was becoming increasingly annoyed with customers who were unsatisfied with his food.

After putting up his first sign, Chu then posted another, saying: 'We work hard to please everyone, but we know we can't.

'So if you're a hard to please, please just turn around and go somewhere else. Thanks!'

Soy sauce is one of the most popular ingredients used in Asian cuisine, but it contains gluten so a visit to a Chinese restaurant can generally prove tricky for customers who are allergic to it.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2765632/We-use-MSG-We-don-t-believe-organic-food-don-t-f-gluten-free-San-Francisco-restaurant-owner-takes-stand-against-hard-customers.html#ixzz3E62zGVrs

[NYC_SKP]

1. It took the UK to post this thing? I'm unsure how outraged to be, walked down Grant St. Friday....

Dude had a blow out.

I don't know if many DU members have been to Chinatown and, really, if they haven't then I hope they will try it sometime.

At their own risk, of course.

[R B Garr]

13. Grant Street? I love that Wok Shop store on Grant Street!

Is everything okay there? We're planning a visit to SF in October and love Chinatown. Is that where this was? Love this shop, but the parking in that area is horrible, just like any downtown -- but hills.

http://www.wokshop.com/


On another note, I'm so bummed we missed going to Sam Wo's restaurant before it closed! That was featured on Conan O'Brien's show and Martha Stewart paid a visit there, so it was on our list of things to do, but on one of trips we saw it closed! Bummer.

[NYC_SKP]

14. Park at any lot along Mission from 2nd to 6th, lots of construction lately.

Or, if you can afford it, park at a hotel self serve, but that's 5X the rate, or higher.

One of the best parts of SF is that once you get out of your car, it's pretty pleasant!

[Luminous Animal]

33. One of the best parts of SF is that you don't need a car!

I haven't owned one for 12 years and getting rid of it was one of the best decisions I've made.

I read once that 70% of the people who visit San Francisco don't rent a car for traveling about the city. I think that is a good decision.

[NYC_SKP]

42. A car is a curse. I lived in NYC for 10+ years, only bought a car when I left.

Parents kept my old car at their house, a car in NY or SF is a burden, more in NY, IMO.

Both cities have great public transport, I like NY over BART/Caltrain, but both have it!

[Retrograde]

91. San Francisco is tiny

only 7X7 miles square, and the local transit service, Muni, covers almost all of it. If you fly in to SFO, you can take BART, one of the regional transit systems, to San Francisco, and from there you can transfer to MUNI or walk. The hills can be a problem, but I manage them with arthritis and a bad knee. And you see a lot more on foot anyway.

[tabbycat31]

275. That is why I went at 23

As rental car companies don't deem you old enough to rent a car at 23.

[R B Garr]

84. Thanks for the tip, NYC_SKP! That's good to know.

Part of the reason we haven't done all the things we wanted in Chinatown was because of the parking. We'll know better this time!

[Luminous Animal]

16. So Chinese Restaurant is in South of Market. I used to work near it and it was pretty good.

Consider yourself fortunate that you missed eating at Sam Wo's. The food was disgusting.

[peabody]

50. Are you kidding?

Sam Wo had some of the best wonton noodles around. I use to drive an hour from Ventura to the one in L.A. Just for a bowl or two of it.

[Luminous Animal]

93. That would be Sam Woo in LA. Not affiliated with Sam Wo in San Francisco. Oops.

[peabody]

95. Oh sorry!

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought the two were the same.

[Luminous Animal]

99. And I agree. Sam Woo is tasty.

[R B Garr]

238. Lol, I also heard they got surly because they're open so late and

the drunks would come in after the bars closed. There used to be a couple videos on Youtube about their world famous impatient waitstaff. It was a crack up listening her straighten a few folks out.

[R B Garr]

273. Well! You are......

...not alone! I sure did my share of tippling back in the day.

[R B Garr]

87. Thanks, I'm going to look this up. We love restaurant tips from locals.

That's the only way to go.

Sorry to hear that about Sam Wo's. I just liked the idea of it because of their reputation of having mean wait staff that were a crack up and were part of the experience and entering through the kitchen. It was famous!

[Luminous Animal]

92. Oh, totally! It was an experience! And I can understand missing that. PM me the neighborhood

you are staying and where you plan to tool around and I would be happy to give you recs for sights and eating.

[R B Garr]

232. Great! I'll do that. We'll be coming back from a trip to Chicago,

and are planning just a couple nights in October. Not sure where yet. For instance, one year we stayed all the way out in Pinole (sp?) because there were practically no vacancies in SF because of the yacht races (America's Cup qualifiers, or something like that...). We'll plan better this time, lol.

I would love your recommendations. So far, our must-gos are that coffee shop in Sausalito -- Taste of Rome -- (we found it by accident on a drive one visit and loved the coffee). Then we want to go to Berkeley to visit the original Peet's on Vine Street (we're serious Peetniks). Then that wonderful gourmet pizza by UC Berkeley, The Cheese Board.

I'll let you know where our hotel is and PM you! Thanks!

[peabody]

94. I love the food

but I kid you not: One time when I was waiting for my order of wonton noodle soup, I had to use the men's bathroom. I noticed that the guy using the urinal next to me had on a white top that all the staff use to wear. When I washed my hands I noticed that the guy didn't bother to wash his; he just walked straight out of the bathroom after doing his thing. I thought, "Hummm, must be one of the cooks. I feel sorry for the people whose meal he's making. Or it must be a server. In that case, I feel sorry for the people at his tables." When my food came, I looked up and he was the guy bringing me my Wonton noodle soup! Worst, he had his thumb on the inside of the bowl and it could've touch the soup. Ickkk. This was back in the early 1990's. I didn't complain (what was the use? As if they cared.), and I ate the food anyway. Still tasted great.

Oh, Luminous Animal said that the Sam Woo in L.A. is not the same as the Sam Wo in San Fran. This took place at the one in L.A.

[delete_bush]

185. Did he resemble this guy?

[R B Garr]

278. I didn't see this post 'til now, thanks! I'm going to try that Sam Woo's in L.A.

We were just in L.A. Chinatown at Won Kok Restaurant a couple weeks ago. It was great! Next time we'll try the Sam Woo's.

[nomorenomore08]

132. Cheap, greasy Chinese food is one of my ultimate culinary guilty pleasures.

But I guess there's a limit to everything.

[Dirty Socialist]

32. Is Hunan House Still There?

It's pretty good if you like hot and spicy Chinese food.

[Luminous Animal]

35. It's still there and there are a couple of other Hunan House's in the city, too.

[R B Garr]

88. Googled and bookmarked it! Thanks. n/t

[yuiyoshida]

131. I love to cruise Chinatown in San Francisco.. but if you should get bored there..

There is always Nihonmachi! (Japantown!)

[HuckleB]

212. This was all over the SF press days ago.

The Daily Fail actually took quite a while to pick it up.

[kwassa]

2. It is his restaurant, he can run it however he wants to.

As long as he posts this warning sign, no problem.

[GummyBearz]

11. uhoh

Be careful, you sound like a libertarian

[freshwest]

59. Nope. Informed consumers, where we expect to be told what's in a dish. Libertarians don't wanna.

Eat at your own risk, and don't bother us later, don't tread on us, just like Teabaggers.

The owner did the right thing, but it would help if he had it on every menu. Chinese places print it on menus here, no mystery.

Some people have issues with their health that preclude MSG and gluten. They can pick an item without it.

If they expect no food to be sold with MSG and gluten, they are just being jerks and don't have that right. They do, however, have the right to be informed.

It sounds like he's been hassled by purists who can't stand the thought that they have to read a sign or a menu to maken an informed choice.

There's nothing to do with Libertarianism in that, they wouldn't say a thing if it made them a buck or two.

[Warren Stupidity]

40. well no he can't. He has to at least comply with state and local regulations.

And no, his "go fuck off" warning sign likely does not meet requirements.

[mainer]

163. Is it state and local regulation that you MUST serve gluten free, non-MSG, organic meals?

I'm not aware he's violated any laws by not offering these items.

[Warren Stupidity]

189. California and SF have very strict food regulations.

No you don't have to serve non-MSG gluten free organic anything, but you probably do have to post appropriate warning information, which quite likely "fuck off" doesn't meet the requirements for.

My point was that this idiot is not free to run his restaurant anyway he likes. This is not 1870. We regulate and license restaurants for a reason.

[Chan790]

254. Well..."Fuck off" is iffy, but...

the parts making clear that they don't serve any MSG or gluten-free food is probably legally-sufficient.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

186. Oh course, even if it is right into the ground.

If you are losing a lot of customers because if your menu and ingredients, it makes sense to make changes. Do not blame them if you have to close your doors because you do not sell what they want to buy.

[former9thward]

3. Finally someone has the guts to face down the food freaks.

If they don't like it stay away. The place will do just fine without them.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. Um, in San Francisco "the food freaks" are also known as "your customers".

Restaurants that "face down their customers" are a bad bet in a notoriously risky business.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

6. Apparently he has weighed the risks of closing down and made his choice. nt

[Luminous Animal]

12. He closed for one day.

[Egnever]

20. Yet sent a pretty clear message

[Luminous Animal]

26. Meh. Opened the next day. Same people eating there.

[Egnever]

27. Oh you know all his customers?

[Luminous Animal]

30. Yes.

[MattBaggins]

76. What is the message?

That he plans on going out of business?

Pissing of your customers is never good. This little fit is sending the message that he is an idiot.

Hell I agree with guy and love some MSG in my Chinese food but I realize I am a very small minority in that regard.

[tblue]

123. Do they think they're the only Chinese restaurant in SF?

Yeah, Warren. Some of us CUSTOMERS actually care what we put in our bodies. The restaurant can close or not close, who cares? If they want to be vulgar, that's their call. I don't have any health issues with MSG or with gluten, but this restaurant obviously doesn't care about its customers AT ALL, and it sounds like its not too picky about the ingredients they use. (I never would have known if they hadn't posted it.) So I'll go elsewhere as they say. It's a win-win. They don't get my business and I don't eat their low-quality food. We both win!

[pnwmom]

125. You nailed it. Good restaurants care about serving good food and make an effort

to help out people with food sensitivities. I'm finding it easier and easier to eat out these days, and to travel -- thank goodness.

But I'm glad that guy revealed himself. No one needs to go there. Word will get around.

[Chan790]

257. Good chinese food just isn't gluten-free...

it's catering to the people he's really trying to not-serve that ruins Chinese food.

There is really no such thing as gluten-free or Celiac-friendly Chinese food. If you have Celiac...you just can't eat Chinese food. Your solution if you have Celiac is to not go to Chinese food restaurants. You're going to have, at-most, 2 food options.

[pnwmom]

267. That's ridiculous. There is no cuisine that is completely gluten-free, but Chinese food

can be adapted to the needs of people who must avoid it. And Chinese food has much LESS of a reliance on wheat flour than "American" or French cuisine.

Many, many stir-fry Chinese recipes naturally contain no gluten. Traditional soy sauce is 100% soy, and that's easily obtainable; and the typical white sauce is made from cornstarch, not wheat.

It is true that I can't eat anything breaded at a Chinese restaurant -- or any other restaurant. But there are many other choices that simply require a clean wok, some oil, meat, veggies, ginger, and onions.

Here is just one example of a gluten-free menu. But in the Seattle area, most Chinese restaurants are happy to offer suggestions for gluten-free items, whether or not they have a special menu.

http://pfchangs.com/menu/

[Warren Stupidity]

136. um, er, that was my point. Obviously I wasn't clear.

San Francisco, perhaps more so than any other US city, is very food conscious. This restaurant is basically putting up a sign that says "we don't give a shit about what goes in our food, fuck off". Seems like a very bad business model.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

5. Right now I'm thinking it would be

worth the trip across the Rockies for some Chinese food.

[pnwmom]

45. This food freak gets intestinal bleeding when she eats gluten.

Others vomit at the table.

Thanks for being so understanding.

[Egnever]

66. Well then would you go to his shop

and complain or just avoid his shop and go somewhere else. He clearly isn't hiding the fact he has gluten.
I dont understand why that's a problem in SF. I am sure there are plenty of gluten free restaurant choices to be had.

[pnwmom]

67. I'm glad he's open about it at least, but what really bothers me are the intolerant

and unfeeling comments of many of the people here -- some of whom suggested it is outrageous to ever expect any Chinese restaurant to accommodate gluten-free needs.

Celiac doctors often advise patients to go to Chinese restaurants, because the cuisine is rice based, not wheat based. It is easy enough to leave out MSG and the thickener they use is cornstarch not wheat flour. And wheat free soy sauce is readily available.

[MattBaggins]

77. And wheat free soy sauce tastes like crap

[Luminous Animal]

97. You have got to be kidding. All traditional soy sauce is wheat free.

[MattBaggins]

101. I don't think that is true

[pnwmom]

115. You think wrong. Traditional Chinese soy sauce is 100% soy.

Adding wheat was an American invention because we produce so much wheat and it was probably cheaper.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2011/03/do-you-know-your-soy-sauces-japanese-chinese-indonesian-differences.html

Traditional Chinese soy sauces were made with 100% soy (some modern Chinese soy sauces contain wheat too).

[MattBaggins]

169. I am going to go ahead and disagree with you

The history I have seen for soy sauce includes roasted wheat except for a few rarer types

[pnwmom]

192. I just gave you a link that shows traditional Chinese soy is 100% soy.

But it doesn't really matter. It's easily available and substitutable.

[Art_from_Ark]

139. Traditional Japanese soy sauces contain wheat, but

they also sell wheat-free soy sauces in Japan. Like this one:

http://review.rakuten.co.jp/item/1/193677_11013776/1.1/

[KittyWampus]

140. Tamari vs. Shoyu. Real tamari, not American labeled "tamari", is 100% soy. Shoyu or soy sauce

has some degree of wheat.

[Art_from_Ark]

148. The Japanese soy sauce I linked to is called "shoyu"

The Japanese name is イチビキ 醤油 (小麦不使用 ) しょうゆ]

Ichibiki Shoyu (Komugi fushiyou-- "does not contain wheat&quot

Here's an English-language page:
http://store.mitsuwa.com/ichibiki--whole-beans-soy-sauce-witout-wheat-1764oz-p2447.aspx

[pnwmom]

194. Traditional Chinese soy is 100% soy. Wheat was a modern addition.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2011/03/do-you-know-your-soy-sauces-japanese-chinese-indonesian-differences.html

"Traditional Chinese soy sauces were made with 100% soy (some modern Chinese soy sauces contain wheat too)."

[pnwmom]

114. No, it tastes like soy sauce. Wheat isn't a necessary ingredient. Soy is. n/t

[MattBaggins]

171. No that roasted wheat is an integral flavor component

[DavidG_WI]

85. Restaurants use...

What tastes best for the lowest price, not what will cost more or cost them customers(food not as good) just to appease the needs of a small minority.

Source: I've worked as a cook.

SF is a huge city, theres almost assuredly restaurants that do cater to your specific dietary needs, however you should not expect every restaurant to cater to them.

[pnwmom]

116. Shouldn't I expect every restaurant to follow the laws that apply to them,

including the ADA?

Not that I would ever trust the restaurant in the OP. But they shouldn't be applauded for their stand. That I don't understand at all.

From the government's own website about the ADA:


http://www.ada.gov/reachingout/lesson11.htm

This is why the ADA requires businesses to make “reasonable modifications” in their usual ways of doing things when it is necessary to accommodate customers who have disabilities. Most accommodations involve making minor adjustments in procedures or providing some extra assistance to a customer with a disability. Usually the customer will let you know if he or she needs some kind of accommodation.

SNIP

A customer with a food allergy may ask a restaurant if it is possible to omit a sauce or ingredient from a dish he or she wishes to order. When it is easy to do, the request should be honored.

[DavidG_WI]

120. Most don't unless

noted in their menu. Fact is that compliance with some of them can result can require a shutdown of the kitchen while everything gets re-cleaned just for that one order.

If you want to trust your food after making such a request then you are a brave fool.

[pnwmom]

121. Not true. Most good restaurants will accommodate even though they don't have a gluten free menu.

They don't have to clean out the whole restaurant -- just maybe a pan or two.

If I don't trust some restaurants I would never be able to eat outside of my own home. Would you like never being able to go to a restaurant or travel? So this "brave fool" must take chances in order to lead a normal life.

Fortunately, I've found that better restaurants pride themselves on meeting dietary restrictions. But clearly this restaurant would never be trustworthy.

[DavidG_WI]

80. Then do your research...

before you stick things in your face...
Kikkoman Soy Sauce Ingredients:
WATER, WHEAT, SOYBEANS, SALT, SODIUM BENZOATE; LESS THAN 1/10 OF 1% AS A PRESERVATIVE.
http://www.kikkomanusa.com/homecooks/products/products_hc_details.php?pf=10101&fam=101

How about the Fish sauce thats in tons of Asian recipes. Start at 31:30

?t=31m30s

[kwassa]

158. I have fish sauce in my fridge ......

Great on gyoza.

[pnwmom]

195. Why? I already know that 100% soy sauce is the traditional Chinese sauce.

It contains no wheat and it's easily available and substitutable for the brand you just posted.

[DavidG_WI]

209. But...

is that what they're going to use? Many of the Chinese brands do use wheat.

[pnwmom]

210. In my experience in Seattle, they usually already have it. But if they don't, they're happy

to take my fresh, unopened bottle into the kitchen, where they can keep it till the next person asks for it.

[HuckleB]

214. So, you have celiac disease?

Then you should probably be mad at all the fools who self diagnose themselves with "gluten intolerance." They are driving everyone nuts for no good reason, after all, and making your life more difficult.

Try to attack the right people for once.

[pnwmom]

223. No, I'm not mad at them at all. The more people ask for gluten-free foods,

the more labeling that is available to the people who need it the most.

Though I disagree with the people who think that Celiac is the only important reason not to eat gluten. My GI doctor didn't bother to do the endoscopy for Celiac on me, after some positive blood tests, because my symptoms were of ulcerative colitis (bleeding and cramps in the lower intestine) not classical Celiac symptoms of the upper intestine. Now he thinks it's most likely I have gluten-sensitive Crohn's disease. Another family member had elevated liver enzymes that went back to normal after eliminating gluten, and research is showing that a significant subset of people with elevated enzymes have this reaction to gluten. Another relative had the gluten-related skin condition, dermatitis herpetiformis.

Other people I know get migraines from gluten and some people with epilepsy also have to avoid it. And some people who "only" have irritable bowel syndrome actually have gluten intolerance, and might be well on the way to developing Celiac. Don't those people have significant health concerns? Or are they just part of the fad, too?

People who are allergic to corn, wheat, nuts, and five other ingredients know that they have to be listed on the labels and not hidden under the catch-all "natural flavors." All I'm asking is what Ted Kennedy fought for for decades -- to have gluten included on the list, too.

By the way, it is quite likely that his brother had some kind of gluten sensitivity. JFK had failure to thrive as a toddler, and a diagnosed wheat allergy. He also came down with Addison's disease, which is often a complication of untreated Celiac. In his generation, though, few doctors here knew about Celiac; just as now medical science is still uncovering other conditions that are related to gluten consumption.

http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/-John-FKennedy-very-likely-had-celiac-disease-says-medical-expert.html

Dr. Peter Green, a Professor of Clinical Medicine, Director of the Celiac Disease Center at Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, suspects that JFK was the victim of celiac disease an undiagnosed disease common to the Irish.

Green wrote, “John F. Kennedy’s long-standing medical problems started in childhood. In Kennedy’s adolescence, gastrointestinal symptoms, weight and growth problems as well as fatigue were described. Later in life, he suffered from abdominal pain, diarrhea, weight loss, osteoporosis, migraine and Addison’s disease. Chronic back problems, due to osteoporosis, resulted in several operations and required medications for chronic pain.

Green says that by the standards of the time Kennedy was extensively assessed. ”He was extensively evaluated in major medical centers including the Mayo Clinic and hospitals in Boston, New Haven and New York. Among the multiple diagnoses were ulcers, colitis, spastic colitis, irritable bowel syndrome, and food allergies. His medications included corticosteroids, antispasmotics, Metamucil and Lomotil."

SNIP

“Could celiac disease have been diagnosed in Kennedy during his lifetime? Possibly. The disease was first recognized in 1887, as was its treatment with an elimination diet. It was recognized to occur at all ages. However, it was not until the 1950s that the shortage of bread during the Second World War and its subsequent reintroduction in Holland led to the recognition of wheat's role as a cause of this malabsorption syndrome. It was in the 1970s that physicians became aware of the more subtle presentations of the disease. The diagnosis of celiac disease initially requires consideration that it may be present in an individual patient; even now many physicians do not consider the diagnosis.

[HuckleB]

244. So, you want to ignore the fact that many more people than those who have celiac disease...

... are forcing people to change what's in food.

Yeah, I'm going with that's not right. Food security is important, and the fake food problem people are making food security a bigger problem.

Please look outside of yourself. Thank you.

[pnwmom]

247. Why are Celiac people the only people with a right to be concerned about gluten in food?

Why not people with other forms of gluten sensitivity, including forms connected with Crohn's, dermatitis herpetiformus, migraines, epilepsy, and liver problems?

And no one's "forcing people to change what's in food." We're asking for labeling of gluten, just as the 8 other common problem foods must be identified. And we're asking for simple accommodations in restaurants, like leaving out MSG and/or using a wheat-free soy sauce if it is available. I bring my own bottle when I travel, and have never been in a Chinese restaurant that objected to using it.

[HuckleB]

252. So supposition is your next response?

If that's where we're going, then humans should probably just not eat.

[pnwmom]

269. According to you, people with Celiac and other gluten sensitivity should never be able

to eat outside of their own homes.

[Enthusiast]

279. Me too. Same deal here.

I have been dosed with gluten even when a restaurant is trying to serve me a gluten-free product. Cross contamination.

People that don't have a problem simply cannot understand it.

[customerserviceguy]

133. Thanks

Gluten-free is just the latest fad. There are very, very few people with celiac disease who need this, but it's trendy for all the "I've stopped eating ______" types out there who are trying to look cool to their hipster friends.

[upaloopa]

180. Food freaks?

Caring about what you eat isn't freaky it is a smart thing to do. He doesn't have to cater to anyone special and no one has to eat there.

[former9thward]

193. People who want to foist their food views on everyone else are food freaks.

They can eat elsewhere if they have a problem with his food. Maybe eat at home since that is the only place they are going to find perfect.

[pnwmom]

197. Where is this "elsewhere" that they can eat? Chinese restaurants have no more trouble

making simple accommodations than other restaurants do. Are people with food allergies supposed to be chained to their homes and never allowed to travel?

[former9thward]

199. Restaurants do not have to cater to every taste.

Maybe they should start their own restaurant if they think it is so simple. Of course they won't do that. Always demand someone else take the risk and cater to them.

[pnwmom]

202. Restaurants are bound by the ADA to make reasonable accommodations.

And there is nothing unreasonable about not adding MSG to a person's food or to honoring a request to use wheat-free soy sauce, if they have it or if the customer brings his own.

[former9thward]

205. You have posted this before and it is untrue.

They are not bound to make their food any special way. You can go ahead and post again how "if it is easy to do" and they "should" do this and that but those have no legal meaning.

[pnwmom]

206. I posted the link from the government's own website about the requirements of the ADA

with regard to restaurants.

Apparently you couldn't be bothered to read it.

[former9thward]

225. I did read it.

That is why I quoted from it. Maybe you didn't "read" it.

[upaloopa]

198. You can ask a restaurant what is in the food and that is not

foisting anything on anyone. I ask when I eat out. I am conscientious compared to people who aren't concerned about what they eat.
If a restaurant doesn't care to let me know what I want to know I leave.

[former9thward]

200. The restaurant in the OP is not stopping anyone from asking what is in the food.

They tell you upfront. If you don't like it then get out.

[upaloopa]

203. Fine and they do not care to serve people like me

and I would not eat there. All is right with the world.

[pnwmom]

208. The owner of that restaurant was mad that night because someone said his food was too spicy

and refused to pay for it. So he took out his understandable frustration on people who had nothing to do with it.

[pnwmom]

207. Right. And I often ask what they have that's good for people with Celiac.

And they're happy to tell me.

[merrily]

220. I doubt he will do fine with that attitude toward customers.

Sounds like a self-defeating jerk.

[former9thward]

226. The customer is not always right.

Especially when they are an ass. Better for business to show them the door. Ask bars if you don't believe that.

[merrily]

230. Irrelevant. The customer always pays his mortgage.

[Luminous Animal]

231. A group of people refused to pay because the food was too spicy at a place that is known

for their spicy dishes. Then, on the same day, another asshole, after he finished his lunch, refused to pay sayin he didn't like the food.

There are assholes in this story and one of them is not the owner/chef.

[merrily]

234. Yes, I know. Still, an fu to all customers is not a smart business move.

If you don't think that sign was written by a self-defeating jerk, then we disagree.

[Luminous Animal]

241. This city is experiencing an influx of twitterjerks who treat staff

and owners like scum. I have many friends who own and/or work in the service industry and they've never experienced such consistent rudeness. And regular customers notice, too.

The chef is getting a lot of support for his stand against these entitle assholes.

[merrily]

243. He's getting some support but also losing some customers.

And for what? A tantrum?

I don't make special requests at restaurants and I always ask about heat in food before I order, but I would read that sign and never return. I have no patience for people who want to be in business but don't appreciate their customers.

[Crunchy Frog]

7. He could give Basil Fawlty some lessons in customer diplomacy. n/t

[lunasun]

79. +1 !

[Aristus]

8. I can't say I blame the guy.

'Gluten allergy' is the latest fad disorder that everyone who wants to seem 'with it' seems to have. Kind of like fibromyalgia. Something serious-sounding that can elicit sympathy if you claim to have it, but is not disfiguring.

Of course, there are those few who genuinely suffer from these things (and no doubt, a few angry representatives of those few will be along soon to castigate me for mocking and diminishing their pain...), but be assured, I am not mocking them or trying to diminish their pain.

He must have just got fed up with all the poseurs and their gluten allergies, peanut allergies, MSG-free diets. Hell, he's probably tired of the fibromyalgia people, too...

[unblock]

34. then he's in the wrong line of work.

why should he give a crap if the customers are lying about their ailments.

customers order things, and can specify how they want it prepared, whether it's a constraint due to religion, allergies, sensitivities, other health concerns, ethical concerns, political concerns, or maybe they just think the food tastes better prepared a certain way.

a chef's job is to take orders and to satisfy customers. any remotely decent one enjoys a challenge to create a delicious meal when given a customer constraint, and respects the customer's desires without questioning their motives.

customer service isn't for everyone, and if you can't hack it, find a different line of work.

[Aristus]

38. Or the customer could go to a restaurant that serves food more closely in line with their dietary

preferences.

It's not unreasonable to ask for a few changes here and there. And you're right: A good chef will roll with a few punches. But to ask for too many changes (and I don't know how many changes are 'too many', but I'll bet the chef does...) makes one a bad customer.

Especially with a style of cuisine in which so many things, rice, noodles, sauces, etc, are prepared beforehand.

On a personal note: in my own opinion, anyone who looks at a menu and proclaims to his/her table mates, or to the server: "I can't have this. And I can't have that. And I don't eat this. And who would eat that?" is just being a pain in the ass.

[unblock]

48. i have plenty of food issues (migraine triggers) but i've eaten at many restaurants no problem.

soy sauce is one of my triggers. if i have to eat chinese (outvoted in a large group, e.g.) then i just have something simple like steamed broccoli and shrimp on rice.

then people are amazed when, the next time we eat indian and i order phall (the spiciest dish ever, so hot it's not normally found on most indian menus). they think i need to order simple everywhere, not so; i just need to avoid a my triggers.

[pnwmom]

129. A Chinese restaurant is typically one of the better options for a person with gluten sensitivity.

As a "trained diagnostician," I would think you would know that.

Rice doesn't have gluten. Rice noodles shouldn't include gluten (although in the US they sometimes do -- I always ask.) The thickening agent is usually cornstarch, not wheat flour. And 100% soy sauce is readily available (though I bring my own when I travel, just in case) and no one has to sprinkle MSG into food.

In fact, the Celiac organizations single out Chinese restaurants as better places for dining out, since they don't use wheat flour nearly as much as conventional American cooking.

Where do you think Celiacs and others should go? Or should they just stay home and eat in their own kitchens?

[Aristus]

149. Oh God. Here we go again. I'm not a "trained diagnostician." Just a trained diagnostician.

Whether celiac patients go out or stay home is not my concern. It's the concern of the chef in the OP. He obviously didn't consult you when formulating a menu for his restaurant. He seems to have received complaints from people with dietary issues; he's the one you should be talking to...

[WinkyDink]

44. Uh, no. A restaurant chef is not one's personal chef. Read the menu; like it or leave.

[unblock]

53. then the menu should say no substitutions or modifications or something, and the chef

shouldn't get upset, the chef should simply say "sorry, we can't accommodate you".

yes, there are restaurants that have a take it or leave it attitude; this isn't, or wasn't, one of them. mcdonald's once was quite famously a take it or leave it menu (they used to take over half an hour to make a plain burger!) which made burger king ("have it your way&quot and wendy's ("256 combinations!&quot big competitors.

the evident anger and frustration in this case is from the chef not being able to cope with the fact that it was indeed his job, at least at that restaurant. either that or he was angry and frustrated with the fact that his clientele was not accepting a take it or leave it attitude.

either way, the chef is wrong.

[Luminous Animal]

63. It's a small family owned restaurant that does a robust lunch business. There are plenty

of other places nearby that can cater to a variety of tastes including the food truck market (and the variety offered there should satisfy everyone's palate for a group lunch gathering). So Restaurant won't lose any business not catering to all.

There is a restaurant nearby whose specialty is offal. I won't go there because offal and I certainly would not go there and demand that they serve me something other than offal. Similarly, I don't go to an Italian restaurant demanding French food.

One of my favorite bars in San Francisco used to be the Persian Zam Zam Room... it still exists but Bruno, the previous owner and bartender died many years ago. ran the bar the way he liked it. Order a vodka martini and he would advise you that if you insist on vodka rather than gin, you would perhaps prefer the bar down the street. Order any crap mass produced beer and he would tell you that he doesn't carry them and if you groaned or whined, he would ask you to leave.

If a person operates a restaurant within all applicable laws and regulations, then what they choose to serve is their own business.

[unblock]

72. no one's disputing their right to run their business poorly.

and no one's talking about ordering french food at an italian restaurant.

decent chinese restaurants, like any remotely decent restaurant, should be prepared to cater to customer preferences or suffer the consequences. asking for no msg is a perfectly reasonable request, and a good restaurant knows that it might lose a large group if one person can't get an msg-free meal there.


we're hearing about this story because the restaurant wasn't coping well. whatever they were doing, it caused them frustration, and going on a "the customer is wrong" rampage is hardly indicative of a sound business.

[Luminous Animal]

81. It is a popular restaurant and I've little doubt it will continue to be popular. Funny thing...

all he needs to do is switch to kombu from crystalized MSG and the hipsters will eat it up. Kombu is chocked full of MSG but the hipsters would be all like, "OMG! The unami from this kombu is amazing!"

He's been operating in a outlier neighborhood who's clientele (likely the Hall of Justice, Costco employees, auto and motorcycle shop employees and a smattering of small businesses) had no problem with the food. Now he's being invaded by the google glass twitter fuck gentrifiers who are taking up his tables and squeezing out the regulars who loved the food.

Telling the whiners to get the fuck out won't hurt his business. It will open up tables to his traditional non-whining clientele. And make them happy that they don't have to compete with the whiners.

[get the red out]

250. Your comment makes sense

I think if I was walking by and saw that sign that I would try to find out when he was opening back up so I could be there for lunch.

[sendero]

130. I have to disagree....

.... I do agree that this temper tantrum is in bad taste.

However, anyone that thinks that anything but your top tier $50-a-plate and up places are "cooking from scratch" and can accommodate any dietary request is mistaken.

This guy likely has sauces that are pre-made, maybe even commercially made, that have MSG in them. Making a custom sauce for one person is often not practical.

I have a somewhat uncommon food allergy. Some restaurants can work with me and some cannot. I appreciate it when they are willing to but I don't expect it. I think the dude is annoyed with the people who think they are entitled to special treatment because of their food allergy or intolerance. In a busy kitchen trying to keep up with the diners, it's just not always possible.

[unblock]

135. doesn't sound like the complaint is about one-offs

i understand that much is prepped and you can't take msg out of a sauce that's been prepped with msg, sure.

but i've never been to a steak restaurant that didn't have at least a couple of vegetarian options somewhere, and if he's been getting enough customers asking for no msg or no gluten or whatever, then he should have one or two options available.

i have a really tough time buying that, even in a restaurant that preps its sauces, it can't have one or two options available that don't have msg or gluten, etc.


that said, the main point is that there's no cause for tantrum. if they make a business decision not to accommodate certain requests, then they should just put that on their menu and always say sorry, we can't accommodate that, and be prepared to deal with any business consequences. if their restaurant can thrive exclusively on people who are fine with msg, then more power to them. the tantrum indicates that they did not have this policy and tried to cater to these requests and couldn't cope.

so i'll amend my earlier statement slightly. if that's the chef's attitude, then rather than saying he's in the wrong line of work, i'll say that he needs to be working for a restaurant that has a less accommodating policy so that they can just be content to tell customers no, sorry, everything's prepared in advance and we can't cater to your specific dietary constraints.

[pnwmom]

47. It isn't actually such a small number. And don't those people matter, too? They do under the ADA.

Besides Celiac disease, gluten sensitivity can be connected to Crohn's disease, elevated liver enzymes, migraines, and even seizures, among other conditions.

And a peanut allergy could cause someone's throat to close up and die right there in the restaurant.

[former9thward]

103. Then don't go to the restaurant.

Simple solution. Stop trying to make everyone conform to your issues. And no, the ADA does not apply to restaurants, thank goodness.

[pnwmom]

110. The ADA does cover restaurants, according to the government's ADA website.

Read and learn.

It is easy for a restaurant to leave MSG out of a dish and/or substitute a wheat-free soy sauce for the standard kind, and the ADA requires restaurants to make simple accommodations of this sort.

Why would you say "thank goodness" to your mistaken idea that the ADA doesn't cover people with food allergies? Why is the idea that people could be easily accommodated so offensive to you?


http://www.ada.gov/reachingout/lesson11.htm

This is why the ADA requires businesses to make “reasonable modifications” in their usual ways of doing things when it is necessary to accommodate customers who have disabilities. Most accommodations involve making minor adjustments in procedures or providing some extra assistance to a customer with a disability. Usually the customer will let you know if he or she needs some kind of accommodation.

SNIP

A customer with a food allergy may ask a restaurant if it is possible to omit a sauce or ingredient from a dish he or she wishes to order. When it is easy to do, the request should be honored.

[former9thward]

147. Try again.

When regulations use the word "should" it means they can be ignored. Restaurants do not have to do it and it is not "easy to do" anyway. Go to another place to eat. Please don't tell me you can't find places to eat in SF.

[Travis_0004]

259. That would assume its prepared from scratch

I dont know how much cooking is going on but I would bet a lot of things are made in a factory or ahead of time. Some request can not be honored.

[yellowdogintexas]

69. I have fibromyalgia and it is not a fad disorder. It is diagnosable and It is no fun.

fortunately I do not have a severe case and there are good meds now but when we have a sudden drop in atmospheric pressure I will ache from head to toe. before I got meds for it I would come home from work so stiff and achy that only a hot bath would give me relief.

On the other hand, I suspect that many of those who claim gluten intolerance may just be trying to cut it out of their diet to see if they do feel better.

[Aristus]

90. I didn't say it wasn't diagnosable. I'm a trained diagnostician.

Got a license and everything.

I've lost track of the number of new patients who have presented to my clinic with fibromyalgia in their reported medical history, but who were unable to produce a paper trail leading back to the original exam, workup, and diagnosis. I'm sure there's a correlation between the number of patients complaining of fibromyalgia and the number of TV commercials hawking medications for it. And the dearth of commercials concerning things like hypothyroidism, rheumatoid arthritis, post-herpetic neuralgia, lupus, etc. that manifest in a similar way.

We've strayed pretty far from the topic anyway, which was the notion that if you have a particular food sensitivity, don't go into a restaurant and say: "I'm allergic to everything in here. Change it or I'm leaving."

[noiretextatique]

181. i am deathly allergic to fish, so i order crab

i always ask if it is real of imitation. i have been served imitation crab, even after asking. i think it is good business not to kill people. on the other hand, he's made his menu clear, so buyer beware.

[pnwmom]

127. Nobody wants it. I certainly don't want bleeding and cramps every time I eat gluten,

and my friend could do without the migraines.

And you're even mocking people with peanut allergies? The people who could die of an asthma attack while sitting in the restaurant?

Many more people have REAL problems with gluten than you realize -- it's not just a few. Just among my extended family, we have Celiac, and gluten-sensitive Crohn's, and elevated liver enzymes due to gluten. And we're happy about the "gluten fad" because more and more food is finally getting labeled (though government regulations left gluten out of the items that are required to be listed, because of opposition by the Rethugs). And more and more restaurants are learning how to take care of customers who need this.

So we get to live semi-normal lives now, not always chained to our own homes and our own kitchens.

But for some reason people like you think it's some kind of scam.

[Enthusiast]

282. PLUS ONE, a huge bunch!

I wish I could abandon this scam and eat anything I wanted.

[merrily]

222. Sounds like he's really tired of his customers.

There's a plan for success in the restaurant business.

[Eleanors38]

9. Try: Gluten-free 5w-30 All-weather Detergent Motor Oil!

Gets to all bearings FAST! Reduces Noise! Drains completely! Please re-cycle.

[GoneOffShore]

10. Oooo, Vani Hari, the "Food Babe" will show up and smack him.

Good job on his part.

Many people who fear gluten and MSG are merely jumping on a band wagon.

And the existence of widespread MSG 'sensitivity' has been shown to be pretty much bullshit.

[Oktober]

15. Correct...

I just now discovered my gluten allergy... After watching an episode of Dr. Phil about gluten allergies....

Did you know there's a whole series of books that I can get?

O... M.... G...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

17. I'm sure his Yelp will be trashed....

....by a bunch of people who would never go there anyway.

[Luminous Animal]

23. Nope. The majority of the reviews have been very positive since the local reporting a few days ago.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/so-san-francisco-4

[mainer]

161. The Yelp comments are amusing, many supportive of the chef.

And as someone there pointed out, organic foods come at a premium. How can a restaurant that serves $8.00 entrees, to customers who probably demand cheap prices, afford to cook with pricey organic ingredients? If you demand organic restaurant meals, be prepared to pay more for them.

Here's one choice comment:

"As for the gluten free meal, if you actually have CD then fine, you are justified to not wanting to eat wheat products. However, expecting a Chinese restaurant where dumplings, pot stickers, wonton, chow mein, and many forms of noodle soups are menu staples to cater to your specialized needs is the very definition of fighting a completely unrealistic uphill battle. It's akin to going to a neighborhood Italian joint and expecting them to hand you a low carb meal or going to an Indian place and telling them to not use cinnamon or cumin spices due to your rare allergy. Seriously? Good grief, take some responsibility for your own life and find places to eat that actually has a decent chance of accommodating your conditions. It is completely unreasonable and sheer arrogance to expect a Chinese restaurant to change their entire menu around just so you can get your jollies. "

[Throd]

18. I will definitely try them out next time I'm in Frisco.

Yes, I said Frisco.

[Luminous Animal]

19. Wrong state.

http://www.ci.frisco.tx.us/newsite/Pages/default.aspx

[CaptainTruth]

24. Thank you.

[Luminous Animal]

29. De nada.

[CaptainTruth]

22. If I wanted good Chinese in SF I'd go to

Henry's Hunan or Brandy Ho's, my favorites. If it was Brandy Ho's I'd walk to Tosca Cafe (the "opera bar&quot afterwards & enjoy a killer house cappucino ... chocolate, steamed milk, & brandy ... with whipped cream on top. Damn those were tasty! At least I think I might walk there ... I always went to the old location ... haven't lived in the bay area for a few years so I haven't been to the new location.

[Luminous Animal]

25. The best Chinese food served in San Francisco is in the Richmond District.

It's not a touristy neighborhood for American travelers so most don't serve touristy food.

[peabody]

57. Right on!

I grew up in the Richmond district and just love the Chinese food there. I'll eat there over places like Applebee's and Olive Garden any day of the week.

[Luminous Animal]

65. Dim Sum to die for and some of the best spicy Chinese food to make your hair stand on end.

Also, some very good Vietnamese restaurants in the city. (Sunflower in the Mission and Jasmine Garden in the Castro are also great Vietnamese restaurants.)

[hifiguy]

188. Is Henry's Hunan

Henry Chung's place? If so, I've been cooking out of his Hunan Cookbook for 35 years. Everything in it is fabulous.

[RandySF]

28. Seems there are more people asking for gluten-free than there are people who are allergic to it.

[pnwmom]

51. How would you know? And what difference does it make? I'm glad more people are asking for it

because more and more restaurants now are responding in a positive way.

And yes, I really truly am gluten sensitive, even though I don't necessarily have Celiac disease (didn't have the final biopsy). But I get the symptoms of ulcerative colitis (with bleeding) when exposed to gluten, so my doctor said I could skip the endoscopy and go straight to the diet. And the effects were amazing. No more bleeding, no more cramps, and as a bonus the fibromyalgia also went away.

[jberryhill]

104. Gluten aggravates my Morgellon's Disease

[pnwmom]

119. Gluten gives me the symptoms of ulcerative colitis, including bleeding and cramps.

But go ahead and make jokes about it. People with food sensitivities are just a bunch of sissies.

[jberryhill]

134. My wife is allergic to tomato sauce and citrus

Lime juice will cause swelling that can close off her ability to breathe.

We do a fair amount of travel and use pictograms to advise waitstaff, because you'd be surprised how often lime juice is used in all kinds of places you don't expect it.

There are billions of restaurants in the world. If we come across the "we put lime in everything" cafe, we go to.the next one.

I always wanted to go to that tomatina festival, but sadly that's not possible and we are not going to demand they use watermelons instead.

Food is edible culture. We do not demand that the traditions and history of others bend to her health issue.

[Erose999]

174. Its part of the "paleo" fad diet. Which is pretty much the old Atkins diet, with more pseudoscience

about how our bodies "aren't evolutionally adapted for refined carbohydrates" or some shit.

[merrily]

246. And Atkins is little more than an age old low carb diet, once known

as the Canadian Air Force diet. IOW, Atkins did not invent it, though he made a bundle from it.

[Crunchy Frog]

277. My five year old sons are gluten free because one of them has autism

and both of them exhibit noticeable behavioral effects when they do have gluten.

I'm not into fad diets, and am not gluten free myself, but I'll try anything reasonable that I think may improve my autistic son's symptoms, and this seems to.

I think it's awfully judgemental to lump everyone who does gluten free together in that fashion, and dismiss them as faddists. You have no idea what their individual circumstances are.

[Jenoch]

31. Anyone who has a gluten allergy and/or

is allergic to MSG has zero business going o a Chinese restaurant.

[840high]

37. +1

[pnwmom]

52. The Chinese restaurant near us never uses MSG, and it's no problem for me

to bring my own wheat-free soy sauce.

So I know any Chinese restaurant could do it. Not a big deal.

By the way, have you ever heard of PF Chang's? They are a very successful chain with both regular and gluten-free menus, and no MSG.

[Jenoch]

60. You have found a solution to solve your situation.

There is no reason to expect any Chinese restaurant to accomodate you. Of course they can choose to do so, or not. It is their choice.

[pnwmom]

68. Ever hear of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)? It covers restaurants, too.

Yes, they can be jerks about it and lose all the people with gluten problems AND their familiesand anyone else they eat with.

Of course, they wouldn't be in compliance with the ADA, but no one here cares about that.

It is certainly easy enough to leave out MSG and to use wheat-free soy sauce for the customers who ask for it, and the ADA says that when accommodations are simple enough, they should be made.

http://www.ada.gov/reachingout/lesson11.htm

This is why the ADA requires businesses to make “reasonable modifications” in their usual ways of doing things when it is necessary to accommodate customers who have disabilities. Most accommodations involve making minor adjustments in procedures or providing some extra assistance to a customer with a disability. Usually the customer will let you know if he or she needs some kind of accommodation.

SNIP

A customer with a food allergy may ask a restaurant if it is possible to omit a sauce or ingredient from a dish he or she wishes to order. When it is easy to do, the request should be honored.

[Jenoch]

75. I am not sure the ADA requires restaueqnts

to accommodate restaurant patrons as to their dietary restrictions. Please provide a link specifically to the ADA federal law.

[pnwmom]

112. The link you are asking for is what I just gave you -- the government's own website

explaining the ADA law.

[Rocket_Scientist65]

150. The ADA does NOT require "fundamental alterations"

If the owner is using a lot a bulk or pre-prepared ingredients like soy sauce then there is no requirement to alter the dish....from the same link, you need to read ALL of it....that one blanket statement is not a catch all to make things anyway the customer demands.

"Fundamental alteration"

A "fundamental alteration" is a change that is so significant that it alters the essential nature of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations offered. For example:



If a bookstore places special orders for customers, it should do so for all of its customers. A bookstore that does not place special orders for customers is not required to place special orders for customers with disabilities. This would be a “fundamental alteration” in the nature of the bookstore’s services.

A restaurant is not required to prepare special dishes for customers who have disabilities. This would be a “fundamental alteration” in the nature of the restaurant’s services. However, if it is easy to omit a sauce or ingredient from a dish that is listed on the menu, a customer can request that the item be omitted. This would not be considered a fundamental alteration.


Trying to omit gluten or MSG would most likely require buying additional ingredients the restaurant doesn't normally keep on hand.

[pnwmom]

165. I never said it did. But in the Seattle area anyway, most Chinese restaurants can easily omit MSG

or don't use it in the first place, and upon request, substitute wheat-free soy sauce. And compared to other restaurant kitchens, they're much less likely to contaminate everything with wheat flour (since they usually use cornstarch as a thickener).

Any argument people are making here about Chinese restaurants really applies to all restaurants, since Chinese restaurants are among the safer places for people with Celiac. Are you saying that people with Celiac and other sensitivities should always be chained to our own kitchens and never be allowed to travel?

[MattBaggins]

82. The accommodations for real Celiac Sprue and not the fad disease everyone claims to have

are not simple. People with actual Celiacs disease have to avoid all foods that touch frying oil used with floured products. Surfaces have to be washed thoroughly to remove all traces of flour. My wife is a pastry chef and won't accept orders for gluten free because she knows the level of contamination is simply too high and she refuses lie to customers.

My mother has had true Celiac Sprue since the 80s and would never make the claim that she can just bring her own soy sauce and everything would be just dandy.

[pnwmom]

113. I guess I am one of those fad people because I only have gluten-sensitive Crohn's disease,

causing intestinal bleeding and cramps, and not Celiac, right?



Since Chinese food is rice based, the Celiac orgs. often recommend Chinese restaurants as an option, and contamination is rarely a problem. They usually use cornstarch as a thickener, not wheat flour. The only accommodation I need is to have the MSG left out and to substitute an easily available wheat-free soy sauce (which I bring with me but most Chinese restaurants seem to have it anyway.)

And even if that wouldn't satisfy Celiac people, is that a reason to deny the accommodations to other people who would benefit?

The ADA applies to restaurants and requires them to make simple accommodations, like leaving out ingredients when possible. It is very possible not to sprinkle MSG in food and to substitute a wheat-free soy sauce.

[Jenoch]

117. Why would you you attempt to eat food from an Asian restrauant?

[pnwmom]

118. For the exact same reason you would. It tastes good.

And, as I said, the Celiac organizations specifically recommend Chinese restaurants because they don't tend to cook with wheat. They use cornstarch as a thickener, and rice as the starch.

When I first was diagnosed and had trouble eating out ANYWHERE, Chinese restaurants tended to be the best bet. Some of them, including the PF Chang's chain eventually realized they could turn this feature of many of their foods into a selling point.

Can you imagine how difficult it was to travel like other people, before restaurants started making an effort to produce gluten free food? Even now I have to avoid almost all food courts, because there is no one there to tell me how food is prepared. It's not that spoiled Celiac and gluten-sensitive people want to make special demands on restaurants. But it's the only way we can have normal lives that don't tie us to our own kitchens for every meal and let us travel like other people.

[Retrograde]

98. "When it is easy to do so"

is a key point. Just as the ADA does not require old buildings that are grandfathered in to put in access for mobility challenged people like me, it does not require restaurants to change their food preparation practices to accommodate every possible food allergy or sensitivity, especially if it is a hardship for them to do so. Can a bakery be made to keep a separate gluten-free kitchen just in case? Can Pete's Pork Palace ("Pig Parts on Every Plate!&quot be forced to maintain separate preparation areas, utensils, plates, etc. for potential patrons who observe kosher or halal rules? The ADA requires "reasonable" accommodation, but doesn't really define what reasonable is.

Anyway, IMHO the Peninsula has better Chinese restaurants these days - ever since the laws forbidding people of Chinese descent from owning property there were declared unconstitutional.

[pnwmom]

124. It is no hardship not to put MSG in food or to substitute a wheat-free brand of soy sauce. n/t

[Travis_0004]

262. I dont think the chef is sprinkling msg on the dish as it leaves the kitchen

Its likely in the sauce already, either premade earlier or straight from the factory.

If you want MSG food then go to a place that doesnt use msg.

[Erose999]

265. They use base sauces. Either bought in or made in-house. Then they add flavorings to make each of th

the sauce bases into a particular dish.

I know in western cooking there are 5 base sauces: Bechamel, Veloute, Brown Sauce, Tomato sauce, and Hollandaise

There are several in Indian and Thai cooking as well.

Given the similarity of Americanized Chinese dishes (breaded fried chicken in a sugary, cornstarch thickened sauce) I'm sure they use base sauces as well, ad their kitchen are such that they assemble a dish from several pre-perpared parts.

[pnwmom]

266. Many Chinese restaurants can either put it in or leave it out.

Those are the ones I go to, or the ones that never put it in.

At the very least they should be able to tell me what's in their food. I've had chefs/waiters bring out jars with labels for me to look at, and that's fine, too.

[jberryhill]

106. "PF Chang" is Mandarin for "Olive Garden"

True fact.

[gollygee]

142. ROFL

[MattBaggins]

175. here hear

[SoCalDem]

54. and, if you have food allergies, you should be cooking your own food

People with life-threatening food issues, should never trust a menu.. and should stay away from prepared foods.

[HuckleB]

215. "Gluten allergy?" You mean celiac disease, right?

[Quixote1818]

36. Itallian food has a lot more MSG than chinese food

http://www.yourdoctorsorders.com/2012/12/msg-does-chinese-restaurant-syndrome-exist/

[Scootaloo]

39. And?

While I appreciate there are people with gluten intolerance and such, it's also a fucking fad. When I buy a bottle of 100% juice and it tells me "gluten free!" i really, really want to smack someone.

I suppose i can't blame these fadsters. Heard some stupid fuck "doctor" on an intomercial claiming that wheat genes corrupt human genes and cause brain cancer, so we ought to buy his gluten detox. I can't tell if quacks like him are the cause or a product of the bullshit, but either way... Gyuh.

[pnwmom]

74. Why would you want to smack someone when you see a gluten-free label?

I get intestinal bleeding when I'm exposed to gluten, and all the rest of the symptoms of ulcerative colitis, and it was so much harder to find safe processed foods before gluten-free became a "fad."

Even now, nutritional labels are not required to list gluten with other allergens, because the Rethugs fought that tooth and nail when Ted Kennedy finally got the food labeling law passed. So why should you be angry that many food producers are voluntarily labeling foods for people like me?

[uppityperson]

100. Because fruit doesn't have gluten, it is a dumb label. Rather like cholesterol free hard candy.

Sugar doesn't contain cholesterol.

Sometimes labeling is overdone. "may contain nuts" on a peanut butter bar, for instance. Or "X" free whenof course it doesn't contain "x".

[pnwmom]

111. Better overdone than not done at all -- which is more common,

since the labeling of gluten is entirely voluntary, thanks to the Rethugs and food processors' opposition.

[uppityperson]

155. Should bottled water be labeled Gluten and Cholesterol Free?

I see shades of grey, not just "always or never", and common sense.

[pnwmom]

162. Why not? They are already labeled 0% protein and 0% fat -- right on the standard label.

I don't care about a special label. I just want it listed on the REGULAR label. But when it's not there, I'm okay with it on a special label, though it can be annoying to have to search all over packaging to see if one is somewhere. This just happened yesterday. One of my kids asked me if something was gluten free. The ingredient list had the catch-all phrase, "natural flavors," so I started to say no. But then I suddenly saw the words gluten-free in a different place. It can be annoying for me to have to scour packaging for this information. But why should that bother anyone who doesn't have a gluten problem?

Unfortunately, there was food industry opposition to listing gluten with corn, wheat, etc. on the standard label so gluten got left off, even though more people are sensitive to it than some of the other ingredients that are required to be listed.

Why? Because the food industry wanted to be able to use it whenever they chose, without telling people. Do you think that's fair?

[uppityperson]

167. Do you think it fair to require things obviously not there to be listed. Like that h2o bottle?

Should a water bottle be required to say no gluten, cholesterol free, no peanuts?

Yes, standard labels include protein, carbohydrates, fats, vitamins, trace minerals. You now want them to be required to list everything that is not in them rather than the basic nutritional components like that, along with ingredients?

I think it silly to require a bottle of water to do more than list "ingredient :water" unless something is added. And requiring that water bottle to say no gluten, cholesterol free, no nuts, no fish, etc, is rather silly.

[pnwmom]

201. Of course it's fair to have a standard label, even though some of the answers may be ZERO.

Ted Kennedy fought for decades to get the food manufacturers to use the now standardized labels and to specifically list corn, wheat, nuts, gluten, etc. -- instead of hiding things under the catch-all phrase "natural flavors." They complied with every one of those ingredients except gluten. Why is it "silly" to require gluten to be listed on the label if it's in the product? That is the issue here. Wheat isn't the only food that contains gluten; barley does, too, for example, and barley doesn't have to be listed.

One of my friends gave her child a chocolate Paul Newman's bar, thinking it was safe, according to the ingredient label. The girl threw up. When the mother called the company, she learned that it contained barley -- which contains gluten --as an added sweetener, but that wasn't on the label. Why wasn't that bar properly labeled? Because the law doesn't require barley or gluten to be listed. How many other kids got sick from it? Is that really "silly" to you? Aren't you supposed to be a nurse?

[uppityperson]

228. When you stoop to insulting replies, I am done with you. eom

[pnwmom]

233. I would have expected a nurse to be more understanding. Sorry if you view that as an insult. n/t

[uppityperson]

236. Expect a nurse to have knowledge and common sense, not to blindly go along with silliness.

Now you say you know I am, so what was with the snide "supposedly"?

[pnwmom]

245. Because I've never known a nurse to take that dismissive attitude about gluten sensitivity.

It's real, and the common-sense solution is labeling, as with the 8 other ingredients that are required to be labeled.

[uppityperson]

248. The "dismissive attitude" is towards labeling plain water as gluten and cholesterol free.

You seem to miss my point entirely and insult while trying to conflate what I say with your point.

[pnwmom]

251. I'm asking for gluten to be labeled IF IT IS IN THE PRODUCT.

Currently, there is no such requirement. Why can't we require any included gluten to be listed on that label, as we do with corn, wheat, nuts, etc?

Then we wouldn't need any special gluten-free labels. I don't know why they bother you so much, but they wouldn't be necessary if everyone listed gluten with the other 8 ingredients, when it was included in a food.

[uppityperson]

256. Yet you said you want it on bottled water labels,even though it is not in there.

Do you want no gluten on bottled water?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5574370
"Why not?..I just want it listed on the regular label."

Now you say you want it listed only when present, not on the regular label? O.K.

goodbye for real.

[pnwmom]

268. I want it listed on the standard label. Even bottled water comes with standard labels,

even though they contain nothing but water.

[whistler162]

280. Maybe the commercials for Green Giant etal.

should contain the same 1/2 hour disclaimers that drugs do!

[Enthusiast]

284. But juice drinks sometimes have gluten added as a thickening and flavor agent.

I search the grocery isle for juice marked gluten free. For me it is a critical health issue.

[Enthusiast]

283. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find gluten in some juices.

It could be used as a thickening or flavor agent.

Much of the grocery store raw chicken pieces have been injected with a chicken broth mixture containing gluten. Turkey is often injected with gluten. Ham too. But, we look at the label and find the brands marked gluten free.

One time I was suffering from symptoms but we couldn't find the gluten source. It turned out to be olive oil cooking spray. We didn't even look at the ingredients because we didn't suspect anyone would put gluten in cooking spray. But there it was listed on the label.

[bigwillq]

41. Good for them.

They should be able to serve what they want. Folks are free to choose not to eat there if they don't agree with the menu.

[pnwmom]

73. Restaurants are covered by the ADA law.

They are supposed to make minor accommodations, like leaving out ingredients, when the customer requests. It is a simple matter to leave out MSG and/or to substitute wheat-free soy sauce.

[MattBaggins]

83. I have to really question your understanding of Celiacs if you think

wheat free soy sauce is all they have to do.

They have to wipe down any surfaces that contacted flour and change the oil in the fryer.

Why have many dominoes and subways decided to shit can the gluten free products. It is because they can't meet the definition of truly gluten free.

[pnwmom]

122. This isn't just about people with Celiac disease. But most of them can still be accommodated

in a Chinese restaurant because Chinese restaurants don't tend to use wheat flour. When they need a thickener, they use cornstarch. And there is a widely available soy sauce that is 100% soy -- no wheat. I bring it along with me when I travel, but most Chinese restaurants have it anyway.

Am I supposed to never be able to travel again because of my gluten sensitivity? There is no reason Chinese restaurants shouldn't be able to accommodate this as well as other restaurants. In fact, it should be easier for them since they have less of a reliance on wheat flour and none on pasta or bread.

And why do you think Celiacs are the only people with a real problem? I have gluten-sensitive Crohn's and another relative has had to eliminate gluten because of elevated liver enzymes. A friend of mine gets migraines from gluten, and research has shown that she's not alone. Are none of these people ever supposed to be able to eat outside of their homes?

[REP]

177. Wonton wrappers, potstickers, steamed buns, egg roll wrappers all contain wheat

It wouldn't be "easy" to accommodate a celiac patient in a Chinese restaurant kitchen as many wheat products are used in some of the most popular menu items. A separate deep fryer would have to be maintained for gluten-free items, and the prep areas would have to cleared and cleaned before preparing a gluten-free item to assure no contamination. Omitting MSG and substituting one type of soy sauce for another may be easy, but for someone with celiac disease, it may not be enough to prevent symptoms.

There is no amount of mango I can eat without going into anaphalys. If I go somewhere that might serve mangoes, I make sure I have an epi pen and a rescue inhaler in case my meal has come into contact with any.

[mainer]

179. Same with peanut allergies. And Chinese cooking uses peanut oil, which gets into everything.

If restaurants were forced to accommodate everyone's food allergy and stop cooking with gluten, peanuts, eggs, milk, and shellfish, they would be reduced to serving only raw salads. And then someone would complain they're allergic to lettuce.

[pnwmom]

191. So? I can eat most stir fry dishes, and it's not too hard for them to use a clean wok.

Obviously, there are things on a Chinese menu that need to be avoided, and no one with gluten-sensitivity would ask for them.

But there is no reason a Chinese restaurant can't make simple accommodations for gluten anymore than any other restaurant. And people with food sensitivities should be able to get reasonable accommodations so they can live, work, and travel like other people.

[REP]

271. Ever work in a Chinese restaurant? I have, in the kitchen

Woks are cleaned by water from a potfiller, heat turned up, a quick whisk and dumped in the drain between dishes being prepared - if that. There's not an a pile of woks going to the pot washer - there's between three and six, somewhat permanently mounted.

And your fried rice was probably on someone else's plate before yours (and perhaps your steamed rice). If you're squeamish or have actual food allergies, most Chinese restaurants aren't for you.

[pnwmom]

272. You worked in a filthy restaurant that was ignoring safety codes.

No good restaurant would serve leftovers from other people's plates. They should lose their license. That's disgusting, and you're insulting Chinese restaurants by insinuating that they all do that.

Fortunately, I don't have to buy food in dives.

[WinkyDink]

43. How does one "not believe in" organic food?

[Dreamer Tatum]

46. They probbaly mean they don't believe in getting clucked at

by self-righteous Van Dreesens telling them hw to cook and slowing up the works
by ordering food like they probably order coffee.

[SoCalDem]

58. That was probably just an "and another thing" he added

because of all the "foodies" who want their free range chickens read to while they are slaughtered...or who actually trust what others tell them about the food they are about to consume..

Eating at restaurants always requires some leap of faith, and if you cannot trust the chefs, please grow/purchase/cook your own food.

[Silent3]

64. At a guess, I'd say it's a matter of whether you believe so-called "organic" food...

...is really substantially healthier or better-tasting than conventionally grown/raised food.

Not a matter of believing whether it exists or not.

[DavidG_WI]

102. Imported foods and cost

tons of ingredients in Asian cooking are imported and in the countries of origin there may be no way to be certified organic.

On top of this for full certified organic they'd have to have an entire separate kitchen for the organic stuff, go look up why theres so much "near organic" meat on the market that will never be certified organic due to the cost of the process, take it from a small butcher: starts at 12:40 http://wisconsinfoodie.com/2014/07/28/notes-from-underground/

[riderinthestorm]

49. Its a Chinese fucking restaurant! Don't go there if your food allergies are a problem!!

I think the chef (and owner/s) are exasperated with those who don't recognize the FACT that this is a traditional Chinese restaurant.

[pnwmom]

55. So? MSG isn't a key part of traditional Chinese food. My mother learned to cook it from

a Chinese restaurant chef who never used MSG.

And wheat-free soy sauce can easily be substituted for the standard variety.

Celiacs are told by their doctors and the Celiac orgs. that Chinese food is a good option because it is rice based, not wheat based, and they use cornstarch as a thickener, not wheat flour.

[pnwmom]

56. Would all these nasty posts against people with food sensitivities/allergies be tolerated

if they were made against people who needed other accommodations for disabilities?

[a la izquierda]

126. Of course they wouldn't be...

But we're the ones being obnoxious pains in the ass. I'm on a gluten fast to figure out what's wrong with my GI tract.

Guess I'm one of those fad people (because, shocking, I'm also a VEGAN).

[pnwmom]

128. Good luck on the challenge. I hope you get it figured out soon.

I have a son who's a vegetarian and it is a challenge coordinating our meals sometimes. If he ever decides to become a vegan . . . well, maybe he can do the cooking.

[a la izquierda]

285. I cook when I visit my parents.

And when I go to friends' houses, I'll bring a dessert I can eat. Most of my friends are at least vegetarian.

[tblue]

213. I'm sorry for all the rudeness and insensitivity.

Some people have no idea what someone like you is going through. I've talked to people who are in the same boat as you. It's not a 'fad.'

[pnwmom]

221. Thank you, tblue.

[a la izquierda]

286. Thanks so much.

It sucks to not know what causes my tummy troubles. Celiacs runs in my family, but I always test negative for it. Being vegan, though, well that's just my contrarian way

[tblue]

211. +1 The arrogance of the fortunate. They sound like Republicans

No. Probably not. I don't have these particular food sensitivities, but I am not about to start hating on those who do. That's tempting fate, insensitive and just crass. I'd expect this of Republicans not enlightened Dems.

[riderinthestorm]

70. The key word in your post is " traditional".

These are Americanized Chinese restaurants as are virtually every single one of them are these days.... No "traditional" about it.

That this restaurant wasn't subbing "wheat free" soy sauce would be the norm rather than the exception for a Chinese restaurant in the US.

Should they change their menu items to accomodate?

Clearly this restaurants answer is NO!

[pnwmom]

71. I was responding to YOUR post about traditional Chinese restaurants. Should all Chinese restaurants

follow the ADA rules?

Clearly the answer is yes.

It is certainly easy enough to leave out MSG and to use wheat-free soy sauce for the customers who ask for it, and the ADA says that when accommodations are simple enough, they should be made.

http://www.ada.gov/reachingout/lesson11.htm

This is why the ADA requires businesses to make “reasonable modifications” in their usual ways of doing things when it is necessary to accommodate customers who have disabilities. Most accommodations involve making minor adjustments in procedures or providing some extra assistance to a customer with a disability. Usually the customer will let you know if he or she needs some kind of accommodation.

SNIP

A customer with a food allergy may ask a restaurant if it is possible to omit a sauce or ingredient from a dish he or she wishes to order. When it is easy to do, the request should be honored.

[Scout]

224. you've posted it a gazillion times, do you understand it?

i notice the words "may ask" and "if it is possible" and "when easy to do" and "should"

I don't see anywhere that the law REQUIRES substitutions to be made for every request/every reason.

is it smart not to? i don't know. but it's not THE LAW.

[Barack_America]

61. No skinny, organic, gluten free General Tso's Chicken?

Please at least tell me this is a nut-free establishment.

[ecstatic]

62. I'm picky, but I suffer in silence

I'm not that person who goes up to the manager and demands a free meal or refund. A truly picky eater would never risk eating a meal that was the result of a complaint.

[MisterP]

78. yes, but do they speak Cat fluently? (SFW, but barely)

[DavidG_WI]

86. Um...

wtf did I just watch? Please tell me theres more!

[MisterP]

96. it's based on an--interesting--cafe that appeared on Gordon Ramsay's "Kitchen Nightmares"

their reaction to any criticism was--intemperate

[DRoseDARs]

105. Oh Jesus, I don't know if I can handle that trainwreck awesomeness. nt

[KittyWampus]

143. Thanks for enlightening me to a subcultural reference I had no idea existed.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

196. LOL ...

awesome. thanks!

[Xyzse]

89. I don't understand the problem.

If people want to complain about his food, then don't eat there.

Thing is, when dealing with Chinese restaurants, I tend to think the dingier it looks, the better the food tastes.
Crazy I know, but experience shows me that it is true.

I will never again go to PF Changs whose food is pretentiously disgusting. You go there for the ambiance and the liquor.
You go to a place like "Dirty Drawers" to get that fat, greased up bad for you food that does a sensory overload on your tongue.

I find this story hilarious all around, and I am pretty sure he won't suffer for this in regards to his customers.
The ones that complain won't be going there any how, and those that do, go there for the flavor.

I predict that this is a net gain for the guy. That is, until the health and sanitation inspectors get to him.

[SidDithers]

137. 'Cause gluten-free soy sauce is so fucking hard to find...

Hope the restaurant closes for good.

Sid

[tenderfoot]

138. The Daily Fail...

[Javaman]

141. meh, he's out of business.

and it seems he was on that path long before the note.

[dembotoz]

144. i have problems with lactose-so i do not go to ice cream stands--i do not demand that

they stock lactose free ice cream

my mom had problems with salt so we stopped going to Chinese buffets


plenty of food out there
if one place is not healthy for you
go somewhere else

[Renew Deal]

145. I like MSG and organic food and extra gluten.

Where can I eat?

[get the red out]

183. Me too!

I like Chinese food also, and don't ask too many questions.

[Renew Deal]

229. Not asking questions is the most important part.

[Inkfreak]

146. I read this thread and wanted more 10 minutes later. (nt)

[Orsino]

151. Diversity foe struggling to cope with diversity-friendly neighborhood.

He could turn pissing off vegans (or anyone) into a brand, or he can shut up. Or lose business.

[mainer]

166. So now one is forced to honor diversity by catering to vegans who REFUSE diversity?

If vegans were OK with diversity, they'd let people cook and eat the way they see fit.

Wouldn't true diversity mean letting the Chinese cook prepare food the way Chinese cooks do?

[Orsino]

172. Yeah, that's exactly what happened here.

An army of vegans showed up, and forced the restaurant owner to close his doors for a day, and to reopen with a menu they approved.

Oh, wait. No. That's not what happened, at all.

[mainer]

178. When I go to a vegan's house, I have to eat vegan. When he comes to my house, I have to cook vegan.

What's that about who's catering to whom?

[Orsino]

182. When a vegan comes to my restaurant...

...i either have an appropriate menu or not.

So "forced" is not applicable.

[merrily]

235. Drop your vegan acquaintances or find an activity other than eating.

Try a movie or a hike or a picnic to which everyone brings his or her own food.

[mainer]

239. Find me a different set of relatives and then I could.

Planning menus or going out to eat at restaurants turns into a complicated set of negotiations. I'll eat anything, so most of the time I'll go to whatever restaurant the vegans want to go to. But it's not always easy and I resent the fact that I'll have a list of great sounding Yelp-recommended restaurants, and I can't go to a single one when I'm with these people, because they can ONLY go to places with large vegan menus.

Imagine being with vegans in Paris for only three days. Imagine not being able to dine at the place famous for its duck, because it features ... well, duck. Instead of beans and rice and tofu.

I don't travel with them if I can help it.

[merrily]

242. Again, try doing something other than a conventional meal.

Pot lucks or picnics where the vegans can bring things they can eat and you can do the same; or do something that does not involve food at all. Don't be so wedded to being their victim.

[Mr Dixon]

152. LOL sorry had to do it

[link:

|

[mainer]

153. You can't be allergic to MSG.

Monosodium glutamate (MSG, also known as sodium glutamate) is the sodium salt of glutamic acid, one of the most abundant naturally-occurring non-essential amino acids.[Manuf. 1] The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has given MSG its generally recognized as safe (GRAS) designation. Although many people identify themselves as sensitive to MSG, in controlled studies scientists have been unable to consistently trigger reactions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

He probably had a really bad day with whiny customers and just had to vent.

Makes me think of the Soup Nazi in NYC -- his behavior didn't hurt his soup sales.

[Eric J in MN]

156. I'm sensitive to MSG.

I've gotten reactions from food which I didn't think had MSG when I ate it. When I checked the ingredients after getting a reaction, it turned out it did. I never got a false positive.

[mainer]

157. Are you sure it was the MSG causing your symptoms and not something else? It's ubiquitous

And scientists have tried to reproduce MSG sensitivity symptoms, with no luck.

My mother-in-law says she's sensitive to MSG as well, but she's so suggestible that she'll have a reaction to anything, if you tell her it's in the food. And then she'll unknowingly eat it and have no reaction at all.

[Eric J in MN]

160. Yes.

And it's ubiquitous, but every food which has it doesn't have enough to give me a reaction.

[pnwmom]

276. The Mayo Clinic has a less dismissive perspective on this than you do.

The problem is that studies like this often won't reveal the effects of a substance on a smaller subset of people. Just because the overall risk doesn't seem to increase significantly, doesn't mean that smaller groups of people wouldn't show greater effects.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/monosodium-glutamate/faq-20058196

MSG has been used as a food additive for decades. Over the years, the FDA has received many anecdotal reports of adverse reactions to foods containing MSG. These reactions — known as MSG symptom complex — include:

Headache
Flushing
Sweating
Facial pressure or tightness
Numbness, tingling or burning in the face, neck and other areas
Rapid, fluttering heartbeats (heart palpitations)
Chest pain
Nausea
Weakness
However, researchers have found no definitive evidence of a link between MSG and these symptoms. Researchers acknowledge, though, that a small percentage of people may have short-term reactions to MSG. Symptoms are usually mild and don't require treatment. The only way to prevent a reaction is to avoid foods containing MSG.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

173. MSG gives me heart palpitations

Yet I can happily eat all the salt I want without that effect.

[HuckleB]

216. The nocebo effect is getting stronger in the age of the Internet.

Hmmmmm.

[merrily]

240. Baloney. You can be allergic to it. There is a difference in

concentrations and also a difference between natural and manufactured.

For example, I am deathly (literally) allergic to synthetic penicillin, but not to penicillin as it was first made.

I get a physical reaction to Chinese food containing msg, though certainly not a deadly one. The more msg, the stronger the reaction.

[mainer]

258. Maybe you can find the controlled double blind study that proves it.

Because medical researchers haven't been able to reproduce it.

[pnwmom]

274. No, but some people can be sickened by eating MSG. He vented because

he was mad that some customer complained that the food was too "spicy" and refused to pay for it.

Which was wrong, obviously.

But the owner took out his feelings on the wrong targets.

[librechik]

154. …no wonder they couldn't succeed in San Francisco

there's an awful lot of soy sauce in this country--most people haven't started to care about it yet.

And it's pretty stupid. There are non-soy substitutes and low sodium options. We need a lot of folks to demand those.

[Go Vols]

263. Didn't succeed?

They have great reviews everywhere I look,including DU'ers in this thread that have dined there.

4.1 of 5 stars and still open.

https://plus.google.com/112114243616496852358/about?gl=us&hl=en

[KurtNYC]

159. I told a neighbor that the trash behind one "organic" themed restaurant was full of SYSCO boxes

He asked a staff person there about the food, discreetly, and she told him that 80% of what goes on the plate is SYSCO stuff then she launched into a rant about how certain customers verbally beat her up during their order:

Do you have vegan omlettes? WHY NOT? You SHOULD!

When she suggests a strict vegan restaurant down the street might be better able to meet their expectations, they get more pissed off. They stay, take 10 minutes to order, give her a hard time although she is just telling them the truth and what their options are and then they leave a tiny tip as a "message" (to management).

I had lost track of the research into gluten sensitivity. Last thing I heard was there was no documentable "allergy" to gluten although celiac disease is quite real and many non-celiac people report being aided by a gluten free diet. Found this:

But like any meticulous scientist, Gibson wasn’t satisfied with his first study. His research turned up no clues to what actually might be causing subjects’ adverse reactions to gluten. Moreover, there were many more variables to control! What if some hidden confounder was mucking up the results? He resolved to repeat the trial with a level of rigor lacking in most nutritional research. Subjects would be provided with every single meal for the duration of the trial. Any and all potential dietary triggers for gastrointestinal symptoms would be removed, including lactose (from milk products), certain preservatives like benzoates, propionate, sulfites, and nitrites, and fermentable, poorly absorbed short-chain carbohydrates, also known as FODMAPs. And last, but not least, nine days worth of urine and fecal matter would be collected. With this new study, Gibson wasn’t messing around.
...
Analyzing the data, Gibson found that each treatment diet, whether it included gluten or not, prompted subjects to report a worsening of gastrointestinal symptoms to similar degrees. Reported pain, bloating, nausea, and gas all increased over the baseline low-FODMAP diet. Even in the second experiment, when the placebo diet was identical to the baseline diet, subjects reported a worsening of symptoms! The data clearly indicated that a nocebo effect, the same reaction that prompts some people to get sick from wind turbines and wireless signals, was at work here. Patients reported gastrointestinal distress without any apparent physical cause. Gluten wasn’t the culprit; the cause was likely psychological. Participants expected the diets to make them sick, and so they did. The finding led Gibson to the opposite conclusion of his 2011 research:

“In contrast to our first study… we could find absolutely no specific response to gluten.”

Instead, as RCS reported last week, FODMAPS are a far more likely cause of the gastrointestinal problems attributed to gluten intolerance. Jessica Biesiekierski, a gastroenterologist formerly at Monash University and now based out of the Translational Research Center for Gastrointestinal Disorders at the University of Leuven in Belgium,* and lead author of the study alongside Gibson, noted that when participants consumed the baseline low-FODMAP diet, almost all reported that their symptoms improved!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rosspomeroy/2014/05/15/non-celiac-gluten-sensitivity-may-not-exist/

[mainer]

164. He got pissed off because a customer walked out without paying

I can't believe people here defend the freeloading customer and instead blame the chef.

You want organic? Then go somewhere else and pay twice as much.
You want gluten free? Don't demand a cuisine that serves dumplings, noodles, and relies on gluten-containing condiments.
You refuse to eat MSG? What are you doing in a Chinese restaurant?

[Erose999]

168. MSG is awesome. And its not just in Chinese food, its used in Indian and Mid East food a lot as well

as American food, including food served at some pretty popular restaurants. I'm pretty sure its one of "the Colonel's 11 herbs and spices" ....

You can buy it in a 1kg. bag at the Asian market where I shop. Aji-No-Moto is what its called in Indian cooking.



Its a naturally ocurring compound found in steak, mushrooms, and other "meaty" tasting foods.

You can also get "mock duck" which is pretty much just GLUTEN seasoned with MSG. Its pretty popular as a meat substitute:



It looks a lot more appetizing when stir-fried with some onions, green peppers, mushrooms, and cashews and served over steamed rice.

[mainer]

170. "Naturally occurring." Precisely.

Yet people only complain about it when they eat it in Chinese restaurants. It's like some weird form of food racism.

[MattBaggins]

176. Mock duck. Is that Muck?

[MineralMan]

184. My favorite Chinese restaurant in St. Paul that is nearby

is a hole-in-the-wall place. The only person in there who speaks English is the woman at the counter. Orders are written (or shouted) in Mandarin. There are two cooks in the clearly visible kitchen. The kitchen has three monstrous woks sunken into open flames and a steamer. The food is excellent, but I would not even dream of ordering any alterations from their menu. That's especially true if I had a food-related condition.

In the first place, given the chaos in that kitchen, I'd consider it highly unlikely that my special order would be prepared correctly. In the second place, I have no idea whether they have gluten-free soy sauce in there, and I know for an absolute certainty that there is MSG in everything they make. It's on their menu. Several of their menu offerings include peanuts or cashews, and they don't thoroughly scour out their woks between dishes. They use one for brown sauce dishes, another for oil-only cooking, and the third gets used for miscellaneous dishes. The third one is the only one that is rinsed and wiped between dishes.

Finally, this place is almost 100% take-out. There are two tables, and I've never seen anyone eating at them. I call orders in and go there to pick them up, since delivery times are slow. So, I order, and then go there, since they seem to be able to have a take-out order ready within about 15 minutes, always. I watch the kitchen while I wait. It's entertaining. I doubt that anyone ever gets any special order prepared according to the order. The kitchen is utter chaos all the time. You'd be ordering at your own risk, I'd think.

[wyldwolf]

187. There are people close to me who want gluten-free MSG-free everything

They do get mildly hostile when restaurants can't or won't cater to their wants.

[dilby]

190. I get annoyed by people who ask stupid questions. Like, is your bread Gluten Free?

Listen if you don't eat Gluten you should educate yourself on products that contain Gluten and not be dependent on your waitstaff and asking dumb questions. If anything has a sauce it probably has gluten, if anything is breaded and fried it probably has gluten. If you don't see a special gluten free menu just assume everything has gluten and order your food accordingly for your special diet. Here are some places to start, order a salad, order rice with steamed vegetables, order grilled meats with no sauces. I eat low carb which is pretty much gluten free and I do just fine without throwing a fit that I can't get the General Tsao's Chicken.

[Phentex]

227. for you...

[dilby]

260. Yeah, that is really funny and almost how I feel when I am eating with some friends.

I pretty much stay on a Gluten free diet by not eating carbs, so the easiest way for me to do this is eating whole veggies and not throwing a fit. Just went to lunch with coworkers got a burger with no bun and a salad and did not have to ask for a special gluten free menu.

[merrily]

237. People who need a gluten free diet should call ahead to see

if the eatery can accommodate them.

Gluten is so ubiquitous, I don't think it's reasonable to expect a gluten free meal will simply be available if you don't plan ahead.

[dilby]

261. Agreed. n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

204. I'm going to be in SF on Thursday, I will stop there for lunch

I have to get my picture taken with the "We don't give a fuck about gluten-free" sign.

[HuckleB]

217. +1

[Scout]

219. his restaurant, good for him!

i'm a "picky eater" but i have just learned to ask questions, read the menu, and developed "fork control" and pick out what i don't like if it's impossible to make it otherwise.

did find this interesting (which i have seen before, and believe to be true):

"Although many people identify themselves as sensitive to MSG, in studies with such individuals given MSG or a placebo, scientists have not been able to consistently trigger reactions.

Over the years, FDA has received reports of symptoms such as headache and nausea after eating foods containing MSG which it has not been able to verify."

also, many of the "gluten-free" people are just on the bandwagon, and do not have celiac disease.

[merrily]

249. Yes, posting on your door a "fuck you" to your customers and potential

customers is a brilliant business move.

I guess just politely telling customers you don't serve gluten free or organic (or that you do but charge extra for it) like every other restaurant owner in the country would be too bizarre.

[Warpy]

253. I sympathize with Mr. Chu

and I've developed an allergy to wheat. It's not bad as allergies go, just wheezing and a rash, but it's troublesome enough to avoid wheat.

However, the few times a year I crave Chinese food, I get to satisfy it, eating around the allergy as much as possible but realizing it's not possible in many ethnic cuisines.

Then I itch and wheeze for a week or so.

There are wheat free soy sauces out there. I will be able to feed people with celiac with home cooked Chinese food. It is just unrealistic to expect a restaurant to do it.

I knew before looking that this restaurant is in California.

[merrily]

255. Asshat.

[MoonRiver]

270. Don't let the refrigerator door hit ya on the way out

morAn

[whistler162]

281. Obviously his motto isn't....

but is Have It My Way or Leave!