What would you do?

[cyberswede]

A kid in our small town high school recently called the 11 y.o sister of a classmate a "stupid c-word" because she brought him the wrong size batteries for his game controller (she didn't know what it meant, so she asked her mother).

The same kid also has this on his Facebook page:



Would you let the school know about your concerns about this kid? Would you let other parents know? Especially the parents of female classmates?

[dsc]

1. ask yourself this

if the 11 year old had called a kid the stupid c word and had a picture of a black person beaten up with the same caption as the one in your OP what would you do? I think the answer to both questions should be the same and for me they are yes.

[cyberswede]

6. I'm not sure I understand your reply...

I don't think it's the same power dynamic for an 11 y.o. girl to call someone the c-word as it is when, as in my story, a 17 year old boy called an 11 y.o. girl the c-word - and then also has clearly misogynistic graphics displayed in his FB page.

[dsc]

45. I meant n word

no wonder you didn't understand.

[LawDeeDah]

2. I would let the school know, for sure. Good luck with that. Boys will be boys.

the other parents? whew, that's a tuffy. Either they are totally unaware of what their child is saying or they are condoning it.
I'd go to the 'authorities' at the school first and see if other complaints have happened?

[seabeyond]

5. tell me you did not use.... boys will be boys. you know. boys do not have to be asses.

i actually have a couple boys that would never dream of calling a girl the c word, nor posting something like that on fb.

[LawDeeDah]

7. I meant that in a very general way,

I am sure you know what I mean by 'boys will be boys' without me being personal to anyone.

[seabeyond]

9. i hate that saying. raising two boys, they never got away with shit, with boys will be boys.

i had higher expectations. and they did not let me down.

no. i do not buy the saying. it is a pet peeve, or greater, of mine.

[LawDeeDah]

11. I'm not talking about you.

I am talking about a generation that forgave boys for awful things, because, hey, They Are Boys. They are adventurous, they are daring, they do nasty things that are heroic. I have mother in law like that. Special boys, the masters of the universe that should have womens looking after them like their moms did, and fuck them too. What an all in one package.

[seabeyond]

12. thank you. you probably worked much harder than you needed to. but, i appreciate

you going thru the effort explaining it to me. my brain was not wrapping around it. i was surprised seeing you use it. hence, me asking. anyway, lol

thank you for telling me what you meant.

i feel so much better.

[LawDeeDah]

17. that's ok. miscommunication is communication too in it's way

I think we both understand each other better by that now.

[cyberswede]

8. I think they meant "boys will be boys" is the reaction I might receive

...not that "boys will be boys" is a valid response.

[seabeyond]

10. ok. not a favorite of mine, lol. i doubt anyone would pull that one out. the schools i interacted

with took that stuff much more seriously. i could certainly see his parents saying it. which would be an example of the issue the boy is having.

[cyberswede]

13. I'm just afraid the school will say it's not their issue, since it happened off school grounds

...and on FB. But I'm not looking for the school to punish the kid or anything - I just wonder if the school counselor could talk to him & help with his obvious issues.

And more importantly, I would want other parents to aware of this kid's views, so they could decide if they want their kid associating with him. Especially those with daughters.

As for the kid's parents, I don't know them at all, so I have no idea if they would condone his views or not. I'd be afraid to find out, frankly.

I can't believe some if the stuff I see from/about our local school kids online - the patents MUST be unaware, because they would be (or at least should be) mortified.

[seabeyond]

14. are we talking middle or high school?

i LOVE your witch.

[cyberswede]

18. The name-calling kid is in 11th grade...

the girl he called a "stupid c-word" is in 6th grade (middle school).

She didn't know what it meant, and her mom just told her it's an inappropriate word, so I'm not immediately worried about her. I'm more worried about the 11th grader's female classmates, homecoming date, etc. heaven forbid one of them won't "know when to shut up."

[LawDeeDah]

15. I don't think you should look for changing that kids attitude. It is what it is.

You should look for comfort or understanding from others and how as a group you can cope with this. This is something in your control, that kid or his parents are not in your control.

[cyberswede]

20. That's just it...

Should I pass this info along to other parents? How should I bring it up? I don't really want to send a mass email saying "look at the creepy post one of our HS kids posted on FB!" But at the same time, I'd hate for people not to be aware.

Maybe he's just insensitive and thought the graphic was funny (but doesn't really think it's ok to smack women around just for not shutting up), but maybe he's got serious issues with women and is a time bomb waiting to go off on the first girl who doesn't agree with him about something.

How does one know?

[LawDeeDah]

25. Maybe just approach one other parent(s) that you know, and work from that?

I don't know how I would handle this, it's much easier to give advice than take it from oneself. I truly hope there is something for you to work with, and I also believe it is other parents, on a personal one to one level you talk to. Other info, other ideas and support, hopefully.

[seabeyond]

3. the kid needs help. i do not know how old "the kid" is. 12, 13,? 18? that is sad.

i am sorry to hear it. i would probably try to find a little history on the kid. if my kids knew anything about him. i would probably talk to the parents and probably teachers, principal. but then, when i was picking kids up everyday, i was already talking to everyone regularly, so it wouldnt be far reaching discussing this. getting info.

i would really be interested if you find any background info on the kid.

too sad.

[cyberswede]

16. Yes, but now I wonder how common views like his are

...when the mom of the 11 y.o. girl asked her own son about it (he's friends with the kid who called her the c-word), her son said, "oh he says that all the time" like it wasn't a big deal. Argh!

Obviously, she talked to her son, and planned to give the name-calling friend an earful the next time he came over, but I'm rather concerned with the nonchalant acceptance of that behavior.

I can sort of see kids being nonchalant about a word, but that FB graphic is beyond the pale. In an ideal world, that kid should be roundly shamed by his peers. *sigh*

[seabeyond]

21. thanks for more info. i better understand.

i would definitely support the mother that knows the kid and gonna talk. and if my son said, meh... he doesnt mean anything by it, i would certainly be having conversation with him.

my boys were raised in an aware household. conversations often, to be had. on all the social issues. but. i am gonna ask my almost 17 yr old about this. and see what he says.

that is sad. i repeat, again.

[LawDeeDah]

26. this is a matter of defense, rather than offense.

[seabeyond]

27. well. talked to son. 17. 11th grade.

he says that he rarely hears the c word. b word, often. not c word. he says maybe 5 times last year. i guess it has not come up this year. he didnt even know the word until a couple years ago. i do not think it is so common. he said he has never heard anyone use it in anger. that it is more the upper end white kids, that think it is funny, cute. but few. he hangs with a pretty good crowd and they wouldnt be into that word

as far as the picture. he was really bothered with that. he cant see that anyone would be accepting of that. if they ran past it on like instagram or something. he said he would probably say something. like... hey, whats up with that dude.

he said there was nothing funny it it. that it was sick.

really. having two boys these ages, and having spent time with their friends. and my boys talk a lot. their friends hang here. i do not think it is a norm.

[cyberswede]

30. Thank you

I think I'll show it to my son, to start a conversation about the issue. I want to make sure he understands, like your son, so he recognizes that the graphic is sick and wrong.

He's 14 and doesn't really like talking about really serious things. He's smart and sensitive, though, so I think he'll get why it's important.

Thanks for your insight (and your son's).

[freshwest]

37. That graphic is almost identical to what I've seen grown men (Republicans) post on pages.

Last edited Sun Oct 5, 2014, 05:42 PM - Edit history (1)

I used to argue with these people online. They said that all women should 'put out' for a date, but had better not get pregnant, because that would mean they had done it to trap a man and to steal his money - as Rush says.

And still said they didn't need to use birth control themselves, a condom or getting a vasectomy - that thought made them furious. They were still against the woman getting an abortion but they wouldn't marry or give child support - because she was a loose woman or she wouldn't have slept with them. There is no way for a woman to have a healthy relationship when a man has such a dishonest, selfish, ignorant mindset.

They were baggers who said bombing an abortion clinic or killing a doctor was worth a cheer. Also they were racists, said all blacks were ignorant, greedy welfare cheaters, etc. and only voted for Democrats or Obama because they were stupid and greedy, etc. Even if they got welfare themselves, they hated all Democrats and then Obama. And this was some years ago, not new.

Gauge your response according to how many in your small town are baggers and then you'll know if it's hopeless to say anything to the officialdom there. Look at the complicity of the school here, which far outstrips what you describe:

http://election.democraticunderground.com/125551308

What's sad is that women married to the kind of men I argued with online, after losing all credibility on moral, legal and religious grounds, simply said they'd kill me for being a godless, baby killing liberal:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025601720

They are raising these boys or young men to condone the hatred and abuse of girls and women. And at the 11th grade, the guy in question is not a little kid and may be dating. Some teenage girls get beaten by boyfriends, even if they come from homes with no abuse, they are taken down with this kind of language crossing their boundaries, and then when the first blow comes there is a sense of shock.

Then comes the next, and on and on. They may not be able to resist as the stages of grief, from stunned to denial to self-blame, rationalizing, and then, if ever, comes the realization they are worth more than this. And so much harder with less freedom to work or have autonomy overr their own bodies. All the stages have to be worked themselves out, but for some, it will never be finished.

Your best bet is to talk to any girls about this via your own children. I don't know if church is big there, but never count on any group to stop it. I expect this boy got this through home, school, sport or social media. If so, he may become a predator. That Facebook posting is not a joke, it's an indication of a plan he has seen or intends to impliment - he may be beating on a female sibling or a girlfriend right now.

I feel bad for the girl who just got her first taste of hatred, because that wasn't just a word. That was a pattern. She was helping them out by getting them something, waiting on them already. It wasn't good enough for him, huh. Setting the stage for future abuse. If not him, someone else.

I consider the context of the boy calling her names. she was helping them. No reason to be abusive. This is how this stuff starts. What did the sibling of the girl have to say about this - that is, was it cool as far as that went?

There will be trouble.

JMHO.

[seabeyond]

40. this is a very good post freshwater. insightful, al of it. i especially appreciate

this part.

I feel bad for the girl who just got her first taste of hatred, because that wasn't just a word. That was a pattern. She was helping them out by getting them something, waiting on them already. It wasn't good enough for him, huh. Setting the stage for future abuse. If not him, someone else.

i was disappointed to see the age of the boy. at 11th grade, he has been well taught.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. I would sure as hell let all those people know. That is very inappropriate behavior for anyone...

[cyberswede]

23. I guess I can start by showing it to some other moms

Maybe it will go "viral" in our town, and everyone will eventually find out about it.

[seabeyond]

29. i like that. get a conversation going. maybe teach why it is unacceptable.

and that a voice speaking out against it can be had. would be good for the girls too.

[cyberswede]

31. Yeah...I'll start with moms with daughters...

they should find it as upsetting as I do.

[valerief]

19. That picture is way more offensive than any name-calling word, even if it's

a genital word, male or female. Words, esp. slang words, are fluid. Hate is not. That picture is a picture of hate.

[cyberswede]

22. It is a picture of hate.

Would you want your daughter to date a guy who thinks that graphic is "funny?" I wouldn't, and I just wonder if his classmates' parents even have a clue?

The I appropriateness of the c-word in this instance, in my view, is exacerbated by the fact that he used it toward an 11 y.o.girl. Using a sexually charged slur toward a child is repugnant.

[whathehell]

32. That is EXACTLY what it is.

and sexually charged slurs are incredibly ugly and damaging to women and girls,

not to mention when directed at CHILDREN.

[seabeyond]

41. there is a reason the guy used and uses the word. if it was not a big deal, then it would not have

been used. to pretend otherwise, is to wear blinders.

[whathehell]

48. Yes. It's actually quite similar to racism..Is there anyone here who could

imagine a white person using the word "nigger" and posting a picture

of a beaten and bruised Black person alongside it and NOT get the connection?

Seriously, all you have to do is replace the beaten girl with a beaten black

person, replace the word 'bitch' with the word 'nigger' and it's the same message:

"Bitches", like "niggers", and other 'inferiors' need to know their place or they

will get hurt -- That's Persecution and Oppression by those deeming themselves

'superior', be that on the basis of race or gender.

[seabeyond]

42. thinking a step further

bitch.... hit. have you learned your lesson, bitch.... hit.

it disassociates from person/human, allowing the abuse. hit.

same with the boy using the c word.

why do so many pretend it is not an issue. he clearly shows, how for him, it goes beyond, just "play, fun, peer behavior" using a name to beat a woman, and a name to denigrate an 11 yr old girl. how much clearer, what better example for us to see, the damage of sexist slurs.

[whathehell]

46. Of course..When you want to hurt someone, it helps to de-humanize them. n/t

[seabeyond]

47. ... hit. nt

[nomorenomore08]

24. I'm honestly not sure what I'd do. But clearly, doing nothing is unacceptable. n/t

[cyberswede]

28. I agree.

I really think parents in the community need to know about this. The attitude expressed in that graphic is dangerous, and entirely not funny (presuming he posted it as "humor" rather than as a predator).

It shocks me that parents don't check on what their kids are experiencing online.

I read a tweet from a 10th grader where she responded to someone "you're just mad because I won't fuck you" - I wonder what her mom would think of that?

(I don't have an issue with high school students having sex with each other, but I'm afraid this particular girl feels her only value comes from being sexually available; I worry that she's selling herself short).

My daughter is almost 12...when do I need to worry about her classmates?

[nomorenomore08]

58. I agree more people should know about this, if only as a notice to be careful around this kid.

Not everyone who laughs at sick, abusive (attempted) humor is necessarily an abusive person themselves, but the FB graphic combined with his verbal cruelty to a little girl, would tend to worry me.

[the_sly_pig]

33. screen print fb page

I would bring it to the attention of the school administration. Too many people would let this pass. Unfortuneatly, the apple never falls far from the tree. It's probably not just the kid, but also the parents. Let your school administration know that you want their interaction supervised if there is to be any at all. There is no place in school for bullying or cyber-bullying.

[Hekate]

34. There are times when it is appropriate to "tell," and this is one of them. Now.

The boy's parents. The school. Other parents.

This boy has serious problems -- like a ticking time bomb.

[TheVisitor]

35. report it report it report it

I'd tell everyone within earshot and I'd confront the young boy and tell him he is out of line... You definitely want people to know and be weary... Since I am close to the police where I am I'd probably even let them know too and tell them to keep an eye on this confused boy and that he is exhibiting traits of extreme violence and verbal abuse toward minors...

[flvegan]

36. I reckon that if I'm the "classmate" of this fuck, calling my 11 year old sister that

He's getting to know the business end of my fists, dumb fucker.

Then, if he's going to post that graphic, I'd do likewise with his likeness after the aforementioned beating with a caption, "Note your own concern. Moron."

[newfie11]

38. Has anyone talked to the parents

It's a small town, someone must know and be friends with them. Neighbors?

Maybe this is all a preteen trying to make himself look bad or maybe this is going on at home.

[Mariana]

39. What did the classmate do

when this jackass spoke to the 11 year old girl that way?

[avebury]

43. I would make sure to screen capture

all inappropriate Facebook postings (and Twitter if the kid is on Twitter) to save them in case the were ever needed for legal purposes. I would also look at the Facebook pages (if possible) for any of the kid's family members (that might give you a good picture of the family dynamics as he had to learn his attitude somewhere). If he is a junior in HS it won't be long until he is of legal age when consequences can become a lot more severe for his actions. If the parents have Facebook pages, looking at them (if they are not locked down) might give you an idea whether or not it is worth your time talking to them. Closer examination of the boy's page might give you an idea of how far his bad behavior extends. You might also want to peek (if possible) at any pages of his friends to gauge if there is a pattern of bad behavior that extends beyond this boy. I use Facebook all the time to get a look at what is going on in the heads of people I know.

You might consider talking to the school and the police. If you can get someone in the Police Dept. to have a Come to Jesus discussion with the boy that might help him to waken up to what will happen if he continues to go down the path he is on and he reaches legal age.

Almost as important, how did the girl's brother react to how his "friend" treated his sister? If the brother did not stand up for his sister that is really sad. I would let the other parents know, particularly the ones with daughters (not just female classmates but with younger female siblings) because there is a risk that he might be more apt to bully a younger girl then one his own age.

If the school will not help you out, you can always make up flyers that include screen prints from the boy's Facebook age and include what happened to the younger sister and mail/email them out to the parents. If I were a parent I would want to know.

You might want to read up on the laws in your state pertaining to bullying/stalking/cyber bulling-stalking. Definitely check to see if the boy has a twitter and/or instagram account.

[seabeyond]

49. this is what i impress on my boys. they will not be the one to post the picture... but,

who will they be when they see a friend post something like this. this is what I really want to know. in my mind, what I teach, is it is ours to stand up and speak out. I expect no less.

so the boys, that just shrugged it off, and about his sister.... that would be a huge fail for me.

Almost as important, how did the girl's brother react to how his "friend" treated his sister? If the brother did not stand up for his sister that is really sad. I would let the other parents know, particularly the ones with daughters (not just female classmates but with younger female siblings) because there is a risk that he might be more apt to bully a younger girl then one his own age.

[PasadenaTrudy]

44. Learning this from his dad?

I hope not, but it's quite possible.

[MineralMan]

54. Probably, actually. That's the usual way it's learned.

[uppityperson]

50. That is awful. In my town I would talk with the school principal, after printing it out

with the kid's name. I would expect them to not necessarily do something about contacting the kid, but use it during one of their school assemblies, as they often cover crap like this.

The problem is protecting other kids, yet not publicizing, ostracizing the kid. Letting them know this was inappropriate, finding out if they are in need of help, getting them help if possible. As well as protecting other kids.

Is this standard for this kid? Do they have a history of nastiness? What is his home life like? Can you talk with his parents? You have answered some of these questions elsewhere in the thread, am just thinking as I type.

To do nothing is wrong, to do too much is wrong.

[MineralMan]

51. I'm betting that the HS kid with that photo on his Facebook

page sees domestic violence frequently in his own home. It tends to breed on itself. I'd be very concerned about any girls he's dating, and I'd want the school to be aware of that image on his website. I'd also be willing to bet that the boy has been physically abused himself.

It's a vicious circle.

[whathehell]

52. Maybe...and maybe he's just a misogynistic bully. n/t

[MineralMan]

53. Misogyny is learned, not inborn.

Especially violent misogyny. I'm not saying he's not a bully. Clearly he is. I'm saying that getting to the bottom of it is the first step toward correcting it. If he comes from an environment that is violent and abusive, he's not going to get better until he's out of that environment and being taught something else.

Or, maybe you have a better suggestion for how to turn him around. I don't know.

[whathehell]

55. I never claimed it was "inborn", and it can be learned, not solely from

the family, but by the culture at large. He may indeed come from an abusive

family, but he may not.

My point is not to ignore the misogyny around you, including that flourishing

in most pornography, if you're really interested in undoing ugly, anti-female

attitudes.

[seabeyond]

56. one only needs to look at the culture our boys are raised in. being a parent of sons....

that has put a lot of effort into integrity, of all manners, by personal examples and lots of discussions.

look at the culture our boys are immersed in.

[hunter]

57. I'd talk to the kid and his parents directly, preferbly in a public place.

When my wife and I were big city public school teachers we both saw worse.



My wife now has a job where she sometimes sees horrors far beyond foul language and lesser violence, so does my sister, (they see 15 year old moms with two kids in abusive relationships...those sorts of things), but I don't have the constitution for that.

I'd still talk to the kid and his parents first, if only to gauge what's going on.

[cyberswede]

59. Thanks, everyone. Lots of good advice in this thread.

Sorry I wasn't able to respond to everyone individually.

I really appreciate all the feedback!

[sibelian]

60. The swearing is bad, but that's nothing compared to that picture...

The picture is highly disturbing.

I don't think speaking to the school or other parents is a good idea, I would speak directly to the child or to the child's parents. There may be any number of issues at work here. Best to find out what's really going on from the horses mouth, I'd suggest.