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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRe Dallas: There is still ONE contact who is running around (Updated: found him)
not letting authorities check his temperature and health status consistently. This ONE PERSON could singlehandedly cause this whole thing to blow up into a disaster in the unlikely event that he comes down with Ebola.
There is no way to limit his contacts when he runs hither and thither. That makes tracing of all of HIS contacts more difficult.
The police are on the ground looking for him and when they find him he will be secured. He is considered in the low risk group.
It only takes one.
ETA: He is homeless per Dallas authorities. As such, IMHO, he should have been secured on Day One. If this gets into the homeless population there will be no containing it.
valerief
(53,235 posts)We know what we're doing. Don't panic. In fact, don't even pay attention. Go shopping."
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)the rest of us would most likely come into contact with his piss, shit, and vomit IF he's infected. Or worse, he's just doing it on the streets somewhere. How did they even know about this homeless guy coming into contact with Mr. Ebola?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)hither and tither. To be contagious with Ebola you have to be symptomatic. If he's so fucking active, he's not sick.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)It's not like you are totally stopped in your tracks--and since he's homeless, he doesn't exactly have a couch and someone to run to Walgreen's for him and bring him soup. It's unlikely he's infected, but it's still not a good situation.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)emergency room. If he dies on the street, those who pick up his body will be exposed to his illness.
We need a) universal insurance even for homeless people; b) quarantine procedures that work quickly and effectively in times of potential epidemics; c) better homeless services, and d) a lot of other things, but let's start with a), b) and c) in Dallas.
Isn't Texas one of the "We know better. . . . Not going to sign up for federal aid for the expansion of Medicaid because we don't like our president" states?
Texas. Let it secede. We would we better off without that state. I'm joking but sometimes that's the way I feel.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)virulent, contagious people running around the town, using lots of facilities while contaminated. This image is painted in order to argue that he should have been arrested at once, or 'secured' as the OP puts it. Means 'lock him down '. If anyone wishes to call for arrest and detention of others, I expect meticulous language lacking in all hyperbole to be employed to support such calls.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)CDC and TX PH have to be quietly having nervous breakdowns over this guy, praying he doesn't develop a fever. Homeless dude crapping and puking in the streets among other homeless dudes, leaving virus all over the environment, god knows where, is the nightmare they really fear. And no way to reliably trace his contacts.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)Officials look for homeless person described as possible contact with Dallas Ebola patient
http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/health/278165511.html
This is not good.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Not good.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Not sure how reliable it is, so I'm not posting a link.
If true, I'm guessing he was transported after Duncan, before the ambulance was take out of service.
Will post more if I find a reliable source.
herding cats
(19,545 posts)Dr. David Lakey, commissioner of the Texas Department of State Health Services, said no additional Ebola cases have been reported, and that all people who have had contact with Duncan have been identified and that includes a homeless man who was transported in the same ambulance after Duncan was taken to Presbyterian on September 26.
http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/health/2014/10/04/ebola-briefing-cdc-frieden-lakey-jenkins/16714971/
It's not been reported what day he rode in it though. Duncan was transported on Sunday the 26th and the ambulance was removed from service the following Tuesday.
Another article about the homeless person being sought.
Police seek man who rode in Ebola patient's ambulance
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)had a cursory "cleaning" by the crew, but if they suspected Ebola they might have been scared and done a halfway job. Then homeless dude comes along, makes contact with residual crud, fails to maintain personal hygiene, virus contacts his mucous membranes in whatever orifice or via a small skin break. Wanders off in a drunken/drugged/psychotic stupor, makes contact with unknown others as he comes down with a fever. Maybe craps in the gutter, pukes all over sidewalks in a 5 block area, spits on some random passers by, and Bob's your uncle .
It's that easy for this to blow up in our faces.
Public health has to be thinking three steps ahead of the virus to head it off at the pass. I don't think they're up to it. The second they found him the first time and saw he was homeless they should have quietly invited him to stay in a hotel with 24/7 supervision for 21 days.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)And let him go?
Wow, this just gets curiouser and curiouser.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)and have his temp checked.
No one could have foreseen this.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Surprised the press is not reporting it more.
I have a feeling there's a lot the CDC doesn't want us to know.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)ebola?
Seriously?
If the ambulance crew thought it might be ebola, they would not clean thoroughly.
Have you any clue how insulting that and putting cleaning in scare quotes is?
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)I know members of my own profession personally who have done stupid, dangerous things in the case of rabies.
If CDC thought they had done a perfect job, they would not have called homeless dude any sort of contact.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Considering the miniscule amount of virus required for infection, I can't imagine it would be too hard to miss some. Especially if he was vomiting in the interior.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)the CDC is acting with an abundance of caution here with him.
You do not see how that is insulting? To say an ambulance crew would NOT clean an ambulance they thought might have had ebola in it, just take it back out infectious?
Can you seriously not understand the insult?
B2G
(9,766 posts)I don't think he was implying they didn't clean it.
Just that it would need to be cleaned differently if they knew the contaminant was ebola.
People don't normally clean up puke from flu sufferers in hazmat suits.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)on Friday, involves a lot more than latex gloves and a spray bottle and paper towels. No way the ambulance guys, with NO DIAGNOSIS ON DUNCAN, did the hazmat deal with super deep cleaning right after they unloaded him.
If people feel insulted by my pointing this fact out, they are the problem and not me.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)That they would not do a good job if they thought it was ebola. Not that a deep cleaning was not done, but that it would be shirked out of fear, yet still kept in service.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)they really aren't prepared. They screw up. Just look at how bad the PHYSICIANS AND NURSES screwed up at the hospital on the 25th. And THEY had gotten many many notifications and guidelines and alerts from CDC since the West African outbreak and supposedly had current, recent training in how to handle people exactly like Duncan.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)the ambulance in service, that is insulting.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Ebola Case #1 is on the job training, indeed.
Agreed 100% on the insult.
Was relieved to read the link and see how low risk he was. Even more relieved to see they've found him.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Because this really could complicate things otherwise.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)isolating anyone who needs isolating, this whole thing will go away. What he ISN'T saying much about is how horribly and rapidly the system can fall apart if a SINGLE PERSON escapes the safety net.
They have to be in a near panic on the ground over this. The guy might have disappeared because he's feeling like shit.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)Jenkins repeatedly emphasized that since the man was not showing symptoms, then there is "zero chance of contracting the Ebola virus" from him.
A homeless panhandler who rode in an ambulance after a man with Ebola has been found by police.
Tweet: The man is being taken to Parkland Hospital.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)nolabear
(41,902 posts)Not questioning the severity of the problem at all, but GOODNESS! I just commented on how some of the local media outlets I follow down South prey on people's emotions as their primary focus rather than giving information.
I agree he should have been secured, if he could have been, on Day One. And I'm glad he's low risk, a point that gets a little lost in there.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Sorry. I just call 'em as I see 'em.
nolabear
(41,902 posts)uppityperson
(115,674 posts)MrDuncan while he was infectious for days group has come up sick.
http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/health/2014/10/05/ebola-patient-ambulance-dallas-search/16764107/
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)higher level contacts who also showed they would not comply with the guidelines.
I am aware none has come up sick. If you wait until somebody comes up sick before you isolate them, you have missed the boat, inexcusably, and have to start the whole process all over again.
The best chance of ending this is by getting it right the first time and not letting a single person escape the net for one moment. Stop it with a single case and everybody gets to sigh a huge sigh of relief and go home. Screw up and you have got a nightmare on your hands.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)pinto
(106,886 posts)Standard public health protocol is contact tracing. That's meant as a benefit to all parties in the picture. An individual who may have some risk of exposure, other possible contacts and so on down the line. It's meant to provide support, medical monitoring and treatment if necessary.
It's not a law enforcement round up. Setting it in that framework hampers the medical, public health goals. The guy's not a criminal. Health officials want to help him if needed and enlist his support for contact tracing.
(aside) Ambulances are routinely cleaned after each transport - this virus is fragile outside the body and disinfection is pretty straightforward. A homeless individual may not have been aware of the secondary aspects of his ambulance transport. He may not have regular access to news reports or such.
This media fueled tone is really disturbing, imo.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)As it should be.
I don't believe in coddling wilfully negligent, dangerous behavior.
pinto
(106,886 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)comply. They know human lives depend on their behavior. So when they violate the guidelines, public health goes and gets a court order requiring their compliance - with legal consequences if they disobey the court order.
I support this approach 100%.
pinto
(106,886 posts)I get some of your points, of course, yet the draconian stance you take to standard public health procedure is disturbing.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Intent is irrelevant. If you cannot or will not, for whatever reason, go along with the plan, you are a threat to public safety and the law gets involved. Judge issues court order, you are made to behave, by holding you in a nice place with good food if necessary.
I am disturbed by people who don't take dangerous infectious diseases seriously. That attitude gets people killed.
pinto
(106,886 posts)Encourage you to put this all in perspective and current context. Take care.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Even if they may be citizens. Unglued.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)get into the US (Duncan did) and then comes down with it should be deported if they recover. They are a criminal and a menace to society.
I feel the same about any contacts who lie, saying they will obey isolation guidelines, and then proceed to go willy nilly about the community putting countless lives at risk and thereby needing armed police to force them to stay put. Send them back home.
Do not lie and say it is about VICTIMS being deported. It is about criminal and reckless behavior that endangers others needlessly.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)"I have no sympathy for people who promise to stay isolated and then immediately break that promise. Repeatedly. I think they should be deported at the end of 21 days."
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)That may or may not be a correct assumption, but you know full well what I meant.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)the issue or present with coherence.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)give boatloads of bad advice while having not the slightest clue what you are talking about.
I'm still waiting for you to tell where you got that PhD in Epidemiology, or at least that medical degree, that makes you the expert.
I've got the education and professional expertise to be talking about this. You? Not so much, obviously.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)I got my degree at university of FU.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)death of it, among many other subjects.
I also have a Doctorate in Veterinary Medicine, and in vet school we studied veterinary virology and epidemiology until we were sick to death of THAT. I was a teaching assistant in my senior year for the freshman veterinary microbiology class, so I have taught a bit of this stuff at the graduate level.
During my more than 30 years in practice I have developed a deep professional interest in veterinary public health and zoonoses (ebola is a zoonosis) and I also played a critical role in a rabies case which resulted in my being given a letter of commendation from Los Angeles County Department of Public Health. I was interviewed about that case on its 25th anniversary by the Health Department for use in education on public health at UCLA medical school.
Veterinarians are the unpaid, unsung arm of public health. We do constant infectious disease surveillance and reporting as part of our professional duties.
So as far as being an "expert" - yep, probably more than 99.9% of the American population, at least.
What are your credentials? I assume you have some. You do speak so authoritatively.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)serves no purpose. Let people with ebola go wherever they want whenever they want. Only act when they turn up sick.
Tell me again where you got that PhD in epidemiology that makes you the expert?
Your approach is how West Africa got into the mess they are in. i'll take my chances with real experts and not internet Walter Mittys.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)I do not understand how you could come to the conclusions you state here unless you misunderstood what she meant about deporting usa citizens for breaking quarantine.
Your accusations here are quite over the top.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Because you got it wrong completely. CDC is doing critical work.
I was commenting on your callousness. You included the family as persons who should be deported, because they didn't adhere to the quarantine. You've yet to confirm that they are non-citizens.
None of the family has shown symptoms. They were no symptomatic when they left their home. No one was put at risk.
Guarding non-symptomatic persons with armed guards is not necessary or helpful.
If they tried to leave again would you support the use of force to stop them? Deadly force? How far have you gone?
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Citizenship can be revoked, though, and if any of this bad behavior qualifies, then so be it. If you want to be in the US, you need to NOT behave like complete jackasses when it comes to dangerous infectious diseases.
Let me guess - you think it's JUST FINE that Duncan lied to get on that plane. And you think it's just fine that people with high risk exposure to Ebola go off to public schools and stores in violation of isolation guidelines designed to keep large numbers of people from dying a horrible death.
You're awesome.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)if he is not showing symptoms...
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)room with an armed guard (or something equivalent). Taking him to jail would just make contact tracing even more problematic if he got a sudden fever.
Warpy
(110,744 posts)and looked like a bunch of Keystone Kops were running the system (and they were).
Not dropping the ball with a possible second contact is supposed to make us all feel safer, which we don't since they dropped the ball so spectacularly with Mr. Duncan.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)CDC AND local PH will be all over them like white on rice.
It really needs to stop with the first generation of contacts. Period.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)would be charged for any hospital stay...much less 21 days...
They need to set up FEMA trailers or something for these contingencies.
As you said earlier, the authorities do not seem to be up to this challenge.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)pnwmom
(108,914 posts)Why is every step they seem to take always so wrong?
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)there is probably a very good reason he wound up on the street. Drugs, alcohol, untreated mental illness. They tend to get in the way of following through with promises.
Now people are gonna hate on me for saying THAT.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)pnwmom
(108,914 posts)people.
This was an another unacceptable error for them to make.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Probably a bad move where any homeless person is concerned.
Gah. Now people gonna hate on me for saying THAT, too.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)I have been homeless but only for a couple months. I did what I promised to do.
Just because you are homeless does not mean you cheat, lie, deceive.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)interfere with ability to comply with instructions. THAT'S the problem. Not the lack of roof per se.
No idea what the 4 others' excuse was. Second guessing the authorities, denial, superstition, sheer stupidity?
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)in the house.
I am glad they got food and moved to a safer place to live in quarantine.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)got the court order to stay put and brought in the armed guard to enforce it.
That's how they do this. They start out with doing things voluntarily with contacts. Only if they fail to cooperate does the law and force get involved.