Are the men who power washed the vomit in quarantine?

[apples and oranges]

NBC's camera man thinks he caught Ebola when washing out a car that an Ebola patient was in. He was using chlorine, and still became infected. This news begs the question: Are the men who powerwashed and aerosolized Mr. Duncan's vomit (without protective gear on) in quarantine? Were they instructed to use chlorine or some other disinfectant, or did they only use water? And what about the people who walked through it? If they were not placed in quarantine, then the United States has already lost control.

A WFAA TV Dallas/Fort Worth Channel 8 news chopper took the following photograph showing how workers are cleaning up the vomit:


Notice that the woman on the left wearing sandals is about to step into the run-off.

And here’s another screenshot showing a guy walking through the power-wash runoff:


Couldn’t they be tracking it on the bottom of their shoes as they move around? What about the power-wash guys? Where did they go next?

Article: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/workers-spray-ebola-patients-vomit-sidewalk-pressure-washer-protective-clothing-photo.html

[NutmegYankee]

1. I don't believe the virus remains infectious that long on a regular surface.

It probably was not able to infect anyone after that.

[Warpy]

4. No, it's killed rather quickly by UV light

and it was in full sunlight for a couple of days. It was actually better to let the sunlight kill the bugs before they sent anyone to wash it down the drain.

[NutmegYankee]

6. Yeah, I read that it had a very fragile lipid outer structure.

And that it was easily damaged by light and drying out. That makes sense why it is only a problem with direct contact with bodies. The body gives it a safe harbor.

[cwydro]

10. But the cameraman thinks he caught it that way?

Aarrggh, my brain cannot deal with all the conflicting information we're getting on this disease.

[Warpy]

12. No, he caught it from spray during a decontamination procedure

No unprotected person should go near a decontamination area.

[cwydro]

14. But those guys in Dallas

Weren't protected, were they?

I hope they have contacted medical care

[Warpy]

17. What part of "virus killed quickly by UV...two days in sunlight" didn't you understand?

There are a few viruses that can survive that. Ebola-Zaire is not one of them.

On site decontamination involves hosing down people in full isolation suits contaminated with live virus from sick patients.

However, enjoy the vicarious outrage.

[LisaL]

20. How may people were walking by that puke before it was power washed?

And how much are you willing to bet that UV killed all of the virus?
And on site spraying is what presumably infected Writeball, cause that is what she was doing.

[NutmegYankee]

24. Unless they stepped right into it a short while after he puked while also having an open sore...

It's not an issue. The virus isn't airborne and has a very fragile construction that causes it to die quickly on surfaces. As for the other case, spraying a freshly contaminated (suit protected) person down is a far cry from washing away 2 day old puke.

[cwydro]

32. Oh no sunlight in Liberia?

Not sure why you feel the need to attack me. Seemed to me the two cases were analogous.

I certainly could be wrong. There is no outrage in my post at all.

Go find another to pick a fight with. Or perhaps take a deep breath and try not to be rude to peeps who are just posting their opinions.

Cannot understand how my post aroused your ire. Goodness gracious.

[NutmegYankee]

33. Once again, getting covered in body fluids and spraying it off in 15 minutes is not like 2 days on a

sidewalk.

[apples and oranges]

36. That's not logical

Who attempts to decontaminate a car 15 minutes after the car owner dies? First, he'd have to attend to the patient and family (out of respect). Then, he'd have to gather the cleaning products and protective gear. It usually takes at least a day or two to get around to stuff like that.

[NutmegYankee]

37. I was thinking of a different case.

One person thinks they got it from spraying down a doctor.

[pnwmom]

45. Link please.

http://www.msdsonline.com/resources/msds-resources/free-safety-data-sheet-index/ebola-virus.aspx

SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: The virus can survive in liquid or dried material for a number of days (23). Infectivity is found to be stable at room temperature or at 4°C for several days, and indefinitely stable at -70°C (6, 20). Infectivity can be preserved by lyophilisation. 


[Marrah_G]

13. He was probably cleaning it out just after she left the car.

Not really all that conflicting.

[Kablooie]

42. Couldn't it depend on how thick the volume was?

Thick spots might have protected some of the virus protected from the sun.

If it had completely dried out it was likely safe but if there were still moist spots underneath it might still present a danger.

[Warpy]

43. Again, it's highly unlikely because the virus is very fragile and

doesn't do well outside the bodies of people, bats and monkeys used for bush meat.

[apples and oranges]

8. It only takes one particle to infect someone.

The CDC wore hazmat suits when cleaning the apartment, days after those men powersprayed the sidewalk. Just sayin'

[Warpy]

11. No UV light inside the apartment and it's just barely possible that moist areas in soiled linen

left in a pile could still harbor live virus, although it was extremely unlikely.

Still, with something as deadly as this, "extremely unlikely" is not good enough.

The EMTs are the ones outside the family most likely to be infected. I hope they manage to dodge this one.

[TorchTheWitch]

19. depends on the size of the source

The CDC said that droplet form of a small amount of virus will die in a few hours it's the puddles of urine, blood, vomit, etc. that are high concentrations and by far the most worrisome which likely has a lot to do with why dead bodies are much more infectious than live ones... dead bodies leak out urine, feces, etc.

Dying from anything isn't pretty. When I was a nurses' aid back in my teens I had to clean up a dead body... you have no idea how gross it is with all that comes out of them. That was also the day I quit. No way on earth I was ever going to even witness that again much less have to do it.

[NutmegYankee]

23. But exposed to the environment, it's still unlikely.

This virus isn't hardy like the cold or flu.

As for the leakage of dead bodies - yes, I have a significant idea what it's like from caring for a dying family member with cancer. A memory I prefer not to retell.

[pnwmom]

44. The Ebola virus can remain infectious at room temperature for days.

http://www.msdsonline.com/resources/msds-resources/free-safety-data-sheet-index/ebola-virus.aspx

SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: The virus can survive in liquid or dried material for a number of days (23). Infectivity is found to be stable at room temperature or at 4°C for several days, and indefinitely stable at -70°C (6, 20). Infectivity can be preserved by lyophilisation. 


[TwilightGardener]

2. We were told here not to worry, it was "old" vomit and the sunlight killed it.

In theory, this may be true. In reality, these images were unsettling. I hope all these people will be OK.

[Warren DeMontague]

3. Well, we'll know in a few weeks. Isnt that comforting?

Remember, "we're ready for this"

[RobertEarl]

5. OMG!!

You are right to wonder. This is getting crazy.

Had I been there I would have run away and dipped myself asap.

These people are acting like "What? Me worry?" Then it will be: "No one could ever imagine that would fly"

[840high]

7. Where's the bleach?

[apples and oranges]

9. And was the machine decontaminated afterwards?

Again, if they were allowed to leave the scene as if nothing happened, then the US has already lost control.

[LisaL]

16. I am pretty sure they were allowed to leave the scene as if nothing happened.

If somebody down there was thinking about infection, they wouldn't be power washing it off without any protective gear to begin with.

[TorchTheWitch]

15. 10 people are in quarantine

We know 4 of them are the family members that Mr. Duncan was staying with when he became ill, and the paramedics (two or three?) are two or three others. I expect that both the nurse and the doctor who first examined him and didn't consider Ebola are also in quarantine. So that's 6 or 7 people. Two of them may be these guys washing the vomit days later with no protection at all and no idea if they were using chlorine to do it with. I sure HOPE those two are two of the 10 in quarantine. It's a disgrace that they were sent out to do that job with no protection at all when it was known that Mr. Duncan had Ebola.

[riverwalker]

39. the homeless guy

who rode in the ambulance after Duncan did. They had to hunt him down, found him in a psychiatric unit. Is under quarantine now.

[TorchTheWitch]

49. ok, so now it's 11 people in quarantine n/t

[Egnever]

18. Good lord turn off the TV

This fear mongering is getting ridiculous.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. I'm really interested in seeing the response from the panicking crowd if nobody else in Dallas

comes down with it.

Not the sprayers, or the woman with the sandals, or the EMTs, or the doctors and nurses, and not even the family, laying up in the damn apartment with him.

What will they say?

We already know: Dodged a bullet! Whew.

Their position, like all nonsense, is unfalsifiable.

[LisaL]

22. What will be your response if people start coming down with it?

Do tell.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. I expect that the family is the most likely to be infected

Followed by the other close contacts in voluntary quarantine.

If they contracted the virus, I wouldn't be particularly surprised. I also wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.

The sprayers and similar further contacts, I'd be very surprised, and admit I was wrong.

More widespread infections resulting from Mr. Duncan, I'd be shocked, and I'd throw the panic-mongers a party for being right.

Indeed, we can formalize this: If more than 4 additional cases are diagnosed and traceable to Mr. Duncan, I'll donate $30 to MsF, and post the receipt here. Will you do the same if 4 or fewer emerge?

[LisaL]

29. I will be shocked if nobody is infected.

Considering Mr. Duncan's fluids are all over that apartment and pavement (puke).
And the ambulance.
It's been 8 days since Sept 28 (when he went for the hospital).
So if others start coming up with symptoms, it will most likely start happening this week.

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. MsF?

[Cali_Democrat]

26. Direct contact with fluids.

It's actually quite simple.

This panic is getting ridiculous.

[NutmegYankee]

27. Er Mer GAWD, were all Gonna Die!

Yes, the panic is really out of hand. I swear we've gone back to aids and toilet seats again... Another virus with a 15 minute max life span out of the body.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. People enjoy having something to grouse about

No real use in getting in their way.

[kestrel91316]

30. If the bodily fluids stay moist, it can survive for days.

If it dries out, that's the end of it. This being Texas, and apparently it rained around the time it sat there, it's anybody's guess.

We'll find out soon enough.

[cwydro]

34. Liberia is a pretty hot place too.

Just sayin.

[Tarheel_Dem]

35. Come on people. We're beginning to sound like some backwater 3rd world nation, and eerily....

in the process are creating the same panic that stigmatized an entire community in the 1980's. I realize some folks are just natural worriers, but they aren't happy until everyone is just as freaked out as they are. They tend to spread it around, and panic then replaces the disease, and becomes a virus. Please stop it.

[apples and oranges]

38. What part of the OP isn't true?

Fact: They power sprayed the Ebola virus. Anyone near the mist could potentially be infected.

Canadian scientists have shown that the deadliest form of the ebola virus could be transmitted by air between species.

In experiments, they demonstrated that the virus was transmitted from pigs to monkeys without any direct contact between them.

The researchers say they believe that limited airborne transmission might be contributing to the spread of the disease in some parts of Africa.

They are concerned that pigs might be a natural host for the lethal infection.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-20341423

I don't want everyone to panic, I just want competence and honesty from the people in charge!

[Kablooie]

41. The fact they have protective systems designed for this but neglected to use them is a real issue.

The virus is deemed virulent enough to require extreme protective measures when dealing with it.
None of those measures were used in this, the first real case even though it was well known by everyone what the situation was.

This is a problem that could have disastrous consequences for some individuals.

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. I'm not denying any of that. However, what're you gonna do? Seal yourself up in the house?

There were clearly breakdowns in protocol in the Duncan case, but if folks don't trust the authorities, instead of getting themselves all worked up, they might want to toss their computer through the teevee screen, rip out the phone lines, hunker down, and wait for the ALL CLEAR.

[Kablooie]

47. That room would go great with my tin foil hat!

[Kablooie]

40. And where did this wash TO?

Wouldn't the virus remain viable for a time within the sewer system?
Someone in contact with that waste water could conceivably become infected.

[Marrah_G]

48. No- this sort of virus does not live long outside the host.