Poll puts Sanders on presidential race radar

[cali]

Sen. Bernie Sanders' bid for president is getting enough attention that Sanders is now showing up in poll numbers. He doesn't, mind you, show strongly in the polls, but he's there.

A McClatchy-Marist poll released Monday lists Sanders as receiving 4 percent support among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents for the 2016 presidential nomination. Hillary Clinton leads with 64 percent, followed by Vice President Joe Biden at 15 percent and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren at 8 percent. Sanders fared better than Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley's 2 percent and former Virginia Sen. Jim Webb's 1 percent.

Sanders' 4 percent polling puts him in better stead than former Gov. Howard Dean was in at this stage during his 2004 presidential bid. In 2002, with two years to go before the election, Dean drew just 2 percent in a New Hampshire poll. A year later, Dean was tied for the lead with 26 percent. He would become the front-runner briefly before petering out.

Sanders, the Vermont independent senator, has said he has made no decision about whether he will run for president or whether he would run as a Democrat or an independent. MSNBC reported last week that Sanders is leaning heavily toward running.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/politics/2014/10/06/sanders-poll/16826357/

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. 4 whole percent huh?

Have you seen what real Democrats are polling right now?

[cali]

5. why yes, 'Nilla. did you read where Dean was at the same time prior to his run?

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. i forget . .Did Dean win?

And the difference as I said is where the rest of the field is ...at this moment..

Again

[billhicks76]

50. Hillary And Bill are CLOSE Friends Of The Bushes

Don't be a fool...do not vote Hillary the war mongering, corporate tool, police brutality loving fraud that she is. And don't forget she is best friends with the Bush family as Bush Sr has PUBLICLY referred to Bill Clinton as his 5th son beginning in 2001...their fake opposition has always just been theater for the gullible.

[Hoppy]

57. So Bill is George Sr.'s 5th son.

That is not as bad as Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia, being known as Bandar Bush.

--- and we pay for that familial relationship at the gas pump.

[billhicks76]

90. True

The Bushes and the Clinton's envy the amount of control the Saudis have on their society.

[VanillaRhapsody]

67. so Fucking what...the pool of contemporaries that HAVE been in the Whitehouse is a rather

small pool...
!
You are going to have to do better than that if you are going to want to close that gap from your 4% to her 64%!

[billhicks76]

96. Wow...Did I Touch A Nerve?

Seems like defending Hillary is up there with defending NSA. No thanks. I'd rather throw up in my own mouth than waste a vote on someone without a conscience. A vote for a Bush or a Clinton is just giving approval to war, oppression, financial crimes, racism and mass incarceration. Most people I know have moved beyond that in the last 4 years. We are sick of this shit. It's becoming painfully obvious that real change will have to happen from the bottom up. It will be a fight and armchair comments or TV distractions will be meaningless without getting out in the streets and asserting our rights.

[VanillaRhapsody]

98. No I am having a ball!

laughing my ass off all over this thread!

[billhicks76]

107. Keep Laughing

Wanna know the difference between that post and your jokes? No one laughs at your jokes.

[VanillaRhapsody]

108. I will THANKS!!!!

You don't laugh....when the joke is ON YOU!

[billhicks76]

115. Nice Try

That was pathetic but at least you tried. Good luck with Hillary. You know my point is correct whoever you are. We have Tea-Publicans because of people who support corporate friendly-fascism centrists like Hillary and Joe Lieberman. You can pits all you want defending NSA or Hillary but I lump it all in the same category and most people I work with cannot stand either one. You have your mission but being in Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton's club isn't mine. People like you are having a serious effect though...one that is encouraging Progressives to split from the party and if that occurs your beloved Centrists will have their votes diluted.

[VanillaRhapsody]

116. I am not "trying" anything....I am laughing my ass off! And its going swimmingly!

wah wah wah!!!

[G_j]

127. this is what you call discussion?

I call it trolling.

[VanillaRhapsody]

128. and If I am just responding to those that keep responding to me?

You all could just STOP you know!....I am not continuing the conversation....you all keep replying to me and expect me to STFU! I am only returning volley....

[billhicks76]

131. You Never Actually Conversed

I made an obvious valid point about centrists like Hillary being responsible for the rise of the Tea Party by moving the center to the right...a rise which we all are disgusted with.And you just resorted to sarcasm and cute little emoticons because you had no good response much like is done is all the NSA threads Ive seen. Our party has fallen down more than a few pegs because of moving the center to the right because as Harry Truman said," If people want a Republican they will vote for a real one not an impostor." Most Democrats I know are tired of corporate infiltrators using our beloved party to advance their own opportunistic goals.

[VanillaRhapsody]

132. Yes I did...several times....do you think you were the only person I was speaking to?

In fact my first statement to you started with conversation....did you miss that one? Whereupon you asked ME if YOU had struck a nerve....who's zooming who?

[billhicks76]

133. Uh Thats Untrue Too

When you responded to my comment you cursed and then just spouted a bunch of emoticons. No...you didn't converse. How could you...you had no valid points obviously because you didn't state any in response to my comment. All you did was poke fun and disrupt.Why don't you tell all of us why moving the center to the right benefitted us as a party.

[VanillaRhapsody]

142. Oh so you are the arbiter of what is or isn't conversation now?

the real objective is to get everyone on DU that do NOT support Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton (an ACTUAL Democrat) to STFU.

[smokey nj]

145. Yes, he is. We had a vote and billhicks76 won.

[VanillaRhapsody]

146. Good for him....

[billhicks76]

157. I Don't Believe We Should Nominate Bernie

Unfortunately he has the socialist label stigmatizing him. He is a 1000 times better person than Hillary, the former President Of The College Republicans. She is an elitist opportunist that feels entitled and is a Democrat In Name Only. We have kind of screwed ourselves by trying to project that she is the inevitable candidate. This has happened because she is the chosen nominee of Wall St and the Military Contractors in case Jeb Bush loses and this has been planned since 2008 in my opinion. Hopefully another candidate emerges. One sure way to destroy hope in this country would be to have a Bush vs Clinton election again. Clinton is essentially part of the Bush Family Syndicate. Someone posted a great photo of Bill Clinton sitting at a BBQ with Bush Sr and George Wallace circa 1981 and they like me believe Clinton was always Bush's chosen democrat and if you watch the 1991 PBS roundtable debate you can watch Bill turn beet red and threaten Jerry Brown, "You don't know what you're messing with Jerry!". I remember it clear as day, and it was in response to Jerry having a photo thrown up on the big screen of Bill and DINO Sam Nunn inspecting a bootcamp of all black prisoners in black and white striped fatigues and ankle chain ganged as mass incarceration and private prisons were being introduced to America...it was the ramping up of the drug war which Bill promoted and it looked racist. The Bush Cabal has been running things in this country ever since Nixon and the Clintons are their B-Team selection so my vote automatically goes elsewhere.

[Dustlawyer]

175. I think we should push for the one we think is right. It sends the wrong message to support

the Democrat who you don't agree with just because she has a better chance than the one you do. Bernie said his number one issue is to get the money out of politics. This issue has not really come up before in terms of how he plans to do it, or at least not in a long time. Publicly Funded Elections (PFE's) are the key to taking control of our government away from the Plutocrats. I seriously doubt Bernie would win the primary too, but the better he does, the more it moves Hillary left and gives PFE's some exposure that may make the idea something more and more people can get behind. Bernie is the ONLY ONE talking about this issue and we have waited a long time to have a national (sort of) figure bring this up.
I advocate supporting Bernie through the primaries since their is nothing to lose. Trust me, Hillary will get so much support from Wall Street and the Plutocrats that she won't miss ours. The better he does, the better we will be.

[billhicks76]

243. Eugene Debs

"I'd rather vote for what I want and not get it than vote for what I don't want and get it."

[George II]

236. We CAN'T nominate Sanders, he's not a Democrat.

[beerandjesus]

181. I haven't seen you "converse" even once on this forum...

...Not that I've read ALL of your 12,000+ troll posts.

Seems to me all you do is ridicule anyone who suggests the Democrats ought to quit moving to the right. For all the talk about how the "ODS" crowd are crypto-Republicans, it seems to me that it's you who's out to single-handedly demoralize the Democratic base.

This thread is only one of many, many cases in point.

[VanillaRhapsody]

183. right because anyone who supports the

Democratic Primary winner on DU is a troll ....but someone who supports an Independent candidate on DEMOCRATIC Underground is not a troll....

Do I Have that right?

[beerandjesus]

185. No, you're a troll because all you do is troll people with actual opinions.

I see no evidence of you actually HAVING any opinions of your own. All you ever do on here is attack people, and with absolutely no substance behind your nasty remarks.

Seriously, I don't think I've ever seen you debate a policy, or even show any interest in policy. It's all just infantile carping at anyone looking for a DEMOCRATIC alternative to the status quo, punctuated by ridiculous, sophomoric emoticons.

You've somehow managed to amass 12,000 posts by insulting people--people who happen to be DEMOCRATS. You sure as hell don't do anything to make Hillary look any better, but you do a hell of a lot to get well-meaning people, who come on here for news and discussion, to throw their hands up in disgust.

[VanillaRhapsody]

196. you are currently supporting a third party

Candidate.....and YOU are calling ME a troll?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I love detecting hypocrisy!

[beerandjesus]

198. Once again, no substance.

I call you a troll because you're a troll, troll.

Make an argument. Just once. And I'll take it back.

[VanillaRhapsody]

202. just because you dont like the substsnce doesnt

Mean it isnt there....sorry

[beerandjesus]

204. Troll.

[VanillaRhapsody]

205. right a Democrat supporting Democrats on

A Democratic forum is the "troll" obviously!

[beerandjesus]

207. Troll.

Make an argument. C'mon.

Troll.

[VanillaRhapsody]

208. why dont you

Are you committed to vote for whomever the Democrats elect in the Primary?

Because I am...

[beerandjesus]

209. Troll.

You can't make an argument because you're here to demoralize the base. You start to argue, and your Fox News regurgitations will unmask you in a heartbeat---and even the (real) Hillary supporters will destroy you.

[VanillaRhapsody]

210. are you committed to sypport the Democratic Primary

Winner? Because I am

What say you? Are you a Democrat or not?

[beerandjesus]

212. Troll.

I no longer believe you even support Hillary.

All you do on this forum is act out the "Democrats worship Obama and Hillary" lie pushed by the right wing. I'm sure your Freeper friends are impressed.

[VanillaRhapsody]

213. Are you committed to support the Primary winner

Or not?

I know this Democrat is .

[beerandjesus]

214. Troll.

Don't lie to us. You're not voting for Hillary any more than Mike Huckabee is.

What about the Kansas Senate race?

[VanillaRhapsody]

215. will you support the Democratic Primary

Winner meaning THE candidate or not..

Didn't think you could answer. HA!

[beerandjesus]

216. Troll

Not playing the "Democrats are such sheep!" game with a right-wing troll.


Give me one reason to believe you're a Democrat. And not "i'M a dEMOCRAT!!11! LOL ", but an actual reason.

You show no sign of supporting the Democratic party. You show no sign of comparing and contrasting candidates. You're a goddamn troll.

[VanillaRhapsody]

218. I am the troll but YOU

Cannot commit to supporting the Democratic Primary winner....while supporting a third party candidate on a Democratic Forum.....but "I" am the troll...

[beerandjesus]

220. Troll.

You're a troll because you behave like a troll.

If it looks like a troll, babbles like a troll, flames like a troll, and spams like a troll, it's probably a troll.

By the way, you mean you're gonna support the "Democrat party" right? On this "Democrat forum"? Just fixing your talking points for you there!


You're obviously not a Democrat. You obviously ARE a troll.

[VanillaRhapsody]

223. sure I am...a staunch Democrat on a Democratic

Forum is a troll because a guy supporting a third party candidate on said forum says so....yeah right

[beerandjesus]

225. Tell us ONE Democratic issue you support, troll.

It's funny, you're not denying my right-wing troll charges, just the troll part.

You're obviously a troll, but you might convince us you're not a right-winger. But you're not even trying....!

[VanillaRhapsody]

248. How about Equal Pay! How about Reproductive Rights....how about LGBT rights

How about I support a living wage...Is that Democrat enough for ya?

NOW again I ask you....DO YOU or DO YOU NOT plan to support WHOMEVER wins the Democratic Primary?

If you can't answer....guess who I think is a troll!

[beerandjesus]

258. Hey! Welcome back to the fold.

If I were feeling snarky, I'd say that makes you a moderate Republican of the sort that was relatively common 20 years ago, but I'm not, so I won't. I will say that I don't do loyalty oaths, but it's very, very unlikely I would vote for someone who's not a Democrat. If it comes down to a choice between Bernie and Hillary, probably Bernie, but that's partially because I live in South Carolina, where the Democrats will likely concede months before the election. If I lived in a swing state, I'd still have a lot of thinking to do.

I doubt I pass the purity test, but hey, I never claimed to be a Clinton Democrat... I'm much more of an FDR Democrat.

[billhicks76]

244. You Are ProNSA On Every Thread Related To That

And its immediate always...how is that Democratic?

[billhicks76]

245. Its Always proNSA BS With People Who Have Hijacked Our Party And Online Forums

And how does allowing a shadow agency of wealthy military contractors with the ability now to blackmail any politician or judge by examining any embarrassing details of their personal life as leverage benefit a Democracy? These criminals are now in charge of our ENTIRE government according to whistleblowers Russ Tice and William Binney...smearing them as mentally unfit like the Soviets used to do doesn't change the facts.

[VanillaRhapsody]

249. Oh really please link...

uh Glenn Greenwald is a Libertarian....you don't have to be Democrat now do you....sure doesn't prove YOUR cred!

[billhicks76]

286. Haha

The Libertarian Bogey Man. Oooooh. So scary. A Repuke who is against war. I have bigger problems. You should get paid to shill for NSA. You probably think the constitution is annoying.

[VanillaRhapsody]

287. Please link where I "shilled" for them....its not a good idea to accuse others of getting paid here.

Please prove that!

[VanillaRhapsody]

297. and I am saying YOU are....you cannot even commit to voting for whom the Democrats select in the

Primary on a Democratic Forum...

YOU are the one trolling my friend....or else you have NO idea what the word means!

[billhicks76]

296. If Jeb Bush Became A Democrat

And we were told he would win then you would support him. I think we all learned from history that you support someone based on substance not image, party or forced "inevitability". You are a Joe Lieberman DINO and he was a Republican infiltrator. I can't believe you are that immature but the alternative analysis is worse. I just don't trust you after seeing you post the last couple years. You are a die hard NSA supporter and that alone makes you suspect in my eyes.

[Marr]

308. +1

Nailed it in one word. That's all this person does. Same goes for most of the others in their little troupe.

[Babel_17]

200. While the article isn't specific

While the article isn't specific, I take the language as implying a run by Sanders as a Democrat.

A McClatchy-Marist poll released Monday lists Sanders as receiving 4 percent support among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents for the 2016 presidential nomination.

Ok, I found the poll question.

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/misc/usapolls/us140925/2016/2016_McClatchy-Marist%20Poll%20National%20Tables_October%202014.pdf#page=5

Democrats and Democratic leaning independents
If the 2016 Democratic presidential primary or caucus in your state were held today, whom would you
support if the candidates are:

So, "third party" doesn't enter into it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

203. if you support a non Democrat...

That IS third party by definition unless you support a Republican that is....

By the way this poll shows most polled support the Real Democrats

[Babel_17]

226. The poll specified a Democratic primary

Clearly, Sanders would be a Democrat who got the votes. If he won, there would be a presumptive obligation to support him.

I'm happy when anyone of his character and principles thinks of running as one of our candidates.

[VanillaRhapsody]

251. So what....some say Bernie WILL become a Democrat....he cannot WIN the primary

unless he does.....THAT IS a FACT!

[Babel_17]

268. Exactly, so what is your point?

The poll asks who people will vote for, with the assumption that Sanders is running as a Democrat. That seems clear but you are posting as if I said otherwise.

[VanillaRhapsody]

250. If you are NOT a Democrat and you are NOT a Republican you ARE a Third Party

by definition...sorry!

[Babel_17]

269. Check what I said, and what is predicated by the poll

The poll is based on the assumption that Sanders would register as a Democrat so that he could compete in the primary.

So, third party doesn't enter into this particular discussion. If you want to widen the discussion to something that is outside the parameters of the original post, and/or what I posted, fine. But that should be made clear as being a separate argument, imo.

[VanillaRhapsody]

271. THAT poll doesn't change the fact that you MUST be a Democrat to win the Democratic Primary

sorry if you support Bernie Sanders right now....YOU are supporting a third party candidate...simple as that.

[Babel_17]

278. No, I'm supporting the idea of Senator Sanders running as a Democrat

I'm the one who pointed out, basically, "you MUST be a Democrat to win the Democratic Primary". That's my point. It is indeed a simple one.

This thread isn't about Senator Sanders, who caucuses with our party, running as an Independent.

If you bad mouth Senator Sanders, you are bad mouthing a valuable member of our caucus.

[VanillaRhapsody]

283. but at this point its fantasy....think about it.....do you think all the other Democrats are going

roll over and get out of his way? Are you serious???

He is NOT a Democrat YET.....THEREFORE he is still Third Party.....I'm not bad-mouthing him....I am just stating the facts....

He is not a Democrat....I love Bernie....but facts are FACTS!

[Babel_17]

288. Are you serious?

You are engaging in an argument in which there is no other participant. I never stated or implied that Senator Sanders would see other Democrats roll over and get out of the way.

Please, if you think I did say or imply that, post the quote in your reply to me. If you find yourself lacking such a quote, I see this conversation as having ended a while ago.

P.S. "Third Party" implies something(s). Senator Sanders is not in the category of being "third party". He'd have to be in opposition to one of our candidates, and one other opponent from another party, in a match-up in which only those three as significant vote getters.

[VanillaRhapsody]

290. It was fantasy pure and simple...

[VanillaRhapsody]

298. SOOOO.....EVEN IF Sanders became a Democrat....he only has 4% now

and he won't beat Hillary Clinton who has 64%...not to mention ALL the other Dems that want to be President. You realize there is leadership in the Party.....they are not going to give away that position to Sanders PERIOD.

He is WAAAAAAAYYYY more a longshot than President Obama EVER was!

[Marr]

309. There you go again, suggesting the party is a club owned by insiders.

"there is leadership in the Party.....they are not going to give away that position to Sanders."

Seriously? You seem to think voters exist to service the party leadership. If someone like Sanders won the votes, he'd be the party's nominee. It wouldn't matter if your bosses didn't like it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

311. and that is not what I said at all..

Now you are just making shit up.

[Marr]

312. Uh-huh.

I think you're just trolling.

[kysrsoze]

232. While you're laughing your ass off, you're completely missing the point

If Sanders ends up at 26 percent of higher polling, he has the ability via media exposure and debates, to get his message out to more voters and potentially impact the election... even if he doesn't win. If Warren decides to run after all (and she is making a LOT of appearances lately), the combined message could have a huge Hugh!!1!1!

To suppose this election is a lock for Clinton is absolutely foolish. I recall she was supposedly the anticipated nominee in 2008.

[VanillaRhapsody]

234. uh how does 4% mean you can take over the Dem.

party? Are all the real Dems just going to roll over?

[beerandjesus]

240. Troll.

What do you know about real Dems? You can't even name a single policy you support. Not even one!

[VanillaRhapsody]

252. I know real ones vote for whomever wins the Democratic Primary...

Which side are you on?

[ozone_man]

255. It comes down to being a party line Democrat

or believing in democratic principles, in the same fashion as the old time democrats like FDR did, and now Bernie Sanders, whether Democrat or Progressive.

If all you are doing is voting for establishment Democrats like Hillary Clinton, then you might as well be a Republican.

[VanillaRhapsody]

256. It comes down to.....are you committed to support the Democratic Primary winner....duly elected

by your fellow Democrats or not?


United we STAND....Divided we FALL....

Which side are you on?

[ozone_man]

282. Not a Democrat in name only.

A real democrat for sure.

[VanillaRhapsody]

284. Then you ARE committed to vote for the candidate that your FELLOW Democrats ELECTED

in a Democratic PRIMARY election? Is that a Yes or a No?

[Enthusiast]

56. The ROTFL guy is particularly ineffective.

Or did you forget?

Just pointing that out.

[VanillaRhapsody]

68. Only if it is YOUR candidate that is getting the

[fadedrose]

126. I still have a President

and am not shopping for a new one yet.

I am very very upset with all the criticism piled on him in this time of trouble and war, and am tired of the nitpicking over the next one....

[Marr]

141. Did Hillary?

[JDPriestly]

165. Dean's movement is still going strong and making a difference.

[Dawgs]

12. Hillary was leading at this time in 2006 also.

Guess being a real Democrat doesn't always guarantee a win.

[VanillaRhapsody]

14. by 64%?

I think not!



Yea a real Democrat

[Dawgs]

15. She still lost.

And Obama only had 17%.

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. and SHE has 64% NOW!

hahqhahahahajahaha...

And you think Mr 4% can take iver the Democratic Party

[Dawgs]

17. Good thing for America 64% doesn't mean shit a year and half before the election. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

21. you keep telling yourself that

I hope it helps!

[Dawgs]

24. It did in 2008.

How'd it make you feel? You prepared for the same thing happening this time?

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. apparently not She's still here and stronger

Than ever!

[morningfog]

34. She is no stronger than ever. Re-uninevitable.

[VanillaRhapsody]

69. What part of 64% of Democrats favor her is "Re"?

please enlighten us....how someone who IS Favored strongly by the Democratic party is just "envitable" and the ONLY people on DU who EVER say that term....are the sore losers!

[morningfog]

100. In 2007 and 2008, her presidency was presented with

the same support and assurances as today. She lost. At the primary level.

No one has yet declared, so her support is purely name recognition, as it was in 2007 and early 2008. This is without a doubt the apex of her support. It is her ceiling. It will erode from her as the race actually begins.

[hedgehog]

176. I was about to post the same thing. It's all about name recognition now,

with a soupcon of "who do you think will be the nominee, regardless of who would you like to be the nominee?"

[daleanime]

49. Yes, she is....

amazing what money can pay, isn't?

[VanillaRhapsody]

74. Oh now the accusation is she is BUYING the 64%?

WOW.....you guys are sure desperate!

that was so good it deserves a second...

[daleanime]

137. I made no such accusation, that's all on you....

I simply pointed out that her #1 qualification always seems to be her ability to raise funds.





But don't let me side track any misunderstanding your trying to build.

[LondonReign2]

291. Another thread clogged with

combative Third Way view points.

Mission Accomplished!

[VanillaRhapsody]

292. If you support Bernie Sanders you support Third Party..

By default

[LondonReign2]

293. Mission Accomplished!

[VanillaRhapsody]

294. Whatevah!

[JDPriestly]

166. Hillary Clinton's high poll numbers are to a great extent due to name recognition.

But we shall see what happens once Bernie Sanders and/or Elizabeth Warren and who knows who else runs and forces her to state what she really stands for and thereby disappoint some of her backers and funders.

[RufusTFirefly]

229. Absolutely correct! It's like fans who gloat about their team's exhibition season victories

Pathetic.

Given the fact that we've got so-called "swing voters" (aka clueless) right up until the final days before the election, I'd say that the vast majority of people who chose Hillary in this poll had probably heard of her somewhere before. (although they couldn't quite recall where.)

[RufusTFirefly]

228. Looks like President-elect Hillary's got some genuine Joementum. Get used to it, Dawgs!

[Alittleliberal]

134. The most visible candidate has the highest support before the campaign starts?

Who would have guessed that...

[VanillaRhapsody]

135. aahahahahahaha....Wow just wow....

the lengths y'all will go!!! It is just so damn amusing!


It means NOTHING.....right.....numbers NO ONE has ever seen this far out before....just don't any pay attention to that fact right?

ADD to that....she has a massive war machine.....a ground game ready to go from last time....its quite an advantage....NOT to mention....she has the support of ALL the Ladies in the SENATE....NOPE they have NO Influence whatso ever!!!

[RufusTFirefly]

230. "a massive war machine," you say? Perfect. A Freudian slip perhaps?

[grahamhgreen]

277. War mongers unite!

[billhicks76]

299. Hahaha

The massive war machine she has us military contractor support rewarding her for her Iraq War vote and the Mass Incarceration lobby here in the US where a WAR is being waged on ordinary citizens here at home. What a Freudian slip. Because of her views on this I see her as beneath us and borderline vermin because she isn't stupid like other Americans who supported this. She actually admires and befriends Henry Kissinger the war criminal because she is one too. Complete filth. Covet your 64% lead in the way to early poll because you won't have it forever and if she wins expect to end up just like the inevitable Romney.

[billhicks76]

104. Your Comments Are As Much A Joke As Your Sarcastic Emoji

Hillary is a corporatist opportunist who doesn't deserve to bear the title, Democrat. You're quoting polls now? They are meaningless and only reflect name recognition at this point as any politically aware person could tell you. You obviously are on Team Hillary which is fine but the truth is she is more suited to be a Republican and my fellow Democrats are sick and tired of her and her ilk moving the center further to the right. They are directly responsible for the rise of the Tea Party because people want to set themselves apart from others due to cultural differences we can do nothing about. When we start acting like Republicans the real Republicans have to differentiate themselves and to do so must move further to the right to the point if fanatic extremism. And then you want us to accept and be happy with our new found democratic candidates being a spitting image of a 1992 Republican. Get real.

[VanillaRhapsody]

106. suuuuuurrrrrreeee.....

So says the Democrat that is committed to voting for whomever wins the Democratic Primary right???

Right????

[JDPriestly]

167. Do you think Hillary would make a good candidate?

If so, why?

Do you think Hillary would make a good president?

If so, why?

What are the arguments for Hillary.

I have told you why I don't think she will make a good candidate or a good president. I have told you and everyone else on DU that many times.

But the only thing I hear about Hillary is that her poll numbers are good now about 2 years before the 2016 election and she has experience.

Bernie Sanders has more or as much political experience as Hillary. His poll numbers are not good yet although they aren't that bad for a newcomer to the presidential election, and he speaks the language of the people. In Vermont, he gets votes from Republicans and Democrats. That's because he speaks to the issues that trouble most Americans and doesn't just mouth some party line.

Republicans detest Hillary Clinton mostly because they have been brainwashed to dislike and distrust her. Do you think she can overcome that and get enough independent and Republican votes to win? I really don't think so.

I realize that demographics favor the Democratic candidate. But that is not necessarily true. A lot of members of minorities, and a lot of women don't vote. And Hillary will be a great excuse for Republicans to pull out the issues like abortion and gay marriage that divide our country but have nothing to do with core national problems.

On the other hand, a candidate like Bernie Sanders is more likely to appeal by focusing on economic issues and social injustice. The country will really benefit from a Sanders or Warren run. They will bring out the issues that are helpful to Democrats and that our country needs to deal with.

Obama's victory in 2008 was unexpected. I think the plan was that he would run, get his feet wet in a national election and run in 2016. Hillary just was not likeable and strong enough to win the nomination. If a guy like Obama with relatively little experience in the national limelight, almost no national Senate experience and relatively little understanding of a lot of the national issues could beat Hillary in 2008, Sanders or Warren could beat Hillary in 2016.

There is still a lot of time. Certain issues will begin to predominate. Probably economic issues. That's my bet, and that is why I am supporting Sanders and/or Warren. Economic issues are going to be big. Also Sanders' stance on the war is pretty close to Obamas. That is good for Sanders because we are a war-weary country, a nation that is suspicious of the motives of those among our leaders who are quick to go to war.

[blackspade]

172. Chirp, chirp.....

Waiting for the nuanced response.....

[beerandjesus]

186. Exactly. VR has no opinions. We do.

Which is why we can be such easy flame bait. We actually think about the effect of a policy on people's lives--it's not just a silly-ass team sport.

[beerandjesus]

184. I think you mean 'Team Free Republic' rather than 'Team Hillary'.

I've seriously never seen anyone on such a mission to demoralize Democrats.

I want to say something snarky like 'next up, VR praises Clinton for signing the Gramm-Leach-Bliley!', but VR never talks actual policy.

[hootinholler]

27. Well one is polling at 8% and the other is polling at 4% n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. and one is at 64%

[hootinholler]

112. But you said *real* Democrats.

So that one's out.

[VanillaRhapsody]

136. sorry you are going to get your heart broken....

when she wins the Primary while being "out"!!!

[hootinholler]

152. Thanks for agreeing with me

That the 64% candidate isn't a *real* Democrat.

[VanillaRhapsody]

253. More real than someone who cannot commit to voting for the Democratic Primary winner

thats for damn sure!

[thesquanderer]

40. 4% is better than Obama had at this time in 2006 when Hillary had 35%. Check this poll...

Obama hadn't even made the survey yet.

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/empire_zone/03marist_poll.pdf

October 2006

Hillary Clinton
35%

Al Gore
16%

John Edwards
10%

John Kerry
9%

Joe Biden
5%

Mark Warner
2%

Tom Daschle
2%

Bill Richardson
1%

Russ Feingold
1%

Wesley Clark
1%

Evan Bayh
1%

Chris Dodd
1%

Tom Vilsack
<1%

Undecided
16%

[VanillaRhapsody]

41. and so is 64%

[AtomicKitten]

64. You are doing a bang-up job setting yourself up

Last edited Tue Oct 7, 2014, 07:27 PM - Edit history (2)

for an epic faceplant. We heard the same blustery bordering on childish taunts from Clinton acolytes last time which made the outcome even more satisfying.

You seen to forget (ignore ?) that before she even took off her coat in 2006/2007 she had a huge lead in polling. Along with that name recognition she had her hands on the Dem party machinery and raised and blew $100 million by the end of 2007. She had no plan after Super Tuesday because of that arrogant inevitability thing that she - and you - seem intent on going with, again.

Forewarned is fair-warned. In the words of the fellow that beat the Clinton machine last go .... Proceed.

[VanillaRhapsody]

75. why? I am committed to voting for whomever wins the Primary....aren't you?

right now she is polling at 64% AND she is polling ahead of ANY Republican contender too!

I am not worried.....are you?

[AtomicKitten]

109. well bullywoogers for you

not interested in loyalty oaths

[VanillaRhapsody]

110. hahahahahahahahaha.....

god I love this!!!!

[AtomicKitten]

117. good lord you are a silly person

[VanillaRhapsody]

118. No I am a satisfied person.....

[MoonchildCA]

163. Yes!

[VanillaRhapsody]

180. No!

[A Simple Game]

171. Wow, you freely admit to placing party before Country. Nice to know. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

182. I freely admit to being a Democrat on Democratic

Underground ......am I supposed to be ashamed of that?

[A Simple Game]

187. Yes, anyone that admits supporting an unknown candidate because of a letter after their name should

rethink their voting criteria.

Have you noticed you are one of very few Hillary supporter on this thread, at least as far as I have read. Her support is dwindling even on DU. A month ago supporters would have outnumbered non-supporters.

[VanillaRhapsody]

189. an unknown?

You dont seem to know how Democracy works. My fellow Democrats and I ELECT a candidate in a Primary Election. I am not ashamed to trust my fellow Democrats like I did with Barack Obama...

You cant always get what you want...but if you try sometime....you get what you need.

United we stand....Divided we fall.

I support Democrats on DU and so should YOU!

[A Simple Game]

193. I blindly supported Democrats for over 20 years and it did indeed slow the

unraveling of our society. But about 10 years ago I vowed to only support the best candidate for office. Slowing the descent into hell just didn't seem good enough anymore. Looking back the only Democratic candidate for President I've voted for that wasn't a lesser of two evils was President Carter. I really liked and still do like President Carter.

And yes "unknown", you have stated, more than once, that you would vote for whoever the Democratic candidate is. That means you have stated you will give your vote to an "unknown." Don't worry you aren't alone, many Republicans vote the same way, for the letter not the person. No doubt they also think they are doing the best they are capable of.

The only way the best candidate can win is if you vote for them. Continue voting for a letter if it makes you feel better.

Who do I support on DU? As the about section at the bottom of every page says,

Democratic Underground is an online community where politically liberal people can do their part to effect political and social change

so I support the most liberal candidate possible. As a Hillary supporter do you feel out of place on a liberal site?

[VanillaRhapsody]

195. you must have missed the part that says...

Last edited Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:10 PM - Edit history (1)

For the express purpose of electing more DEMOCRATICS

Bernie is not one is he?

[beerandjesus]

222. See, a Democrat would know how to use "Democrat" and Democratic" properly

A right-wing troll, not so much.

Troll.

[A Simple Game]

224. There's also a part about electing the most liberal candidate possible

so what is your point?

Do you consider yourself a liberal on a liberal website?

Do you consider yourself an American before you consider yourself a Democrat? Do you want to do what is best for your Country or for your party? Your answers will tell us a lot about you, think carefully.

[VanillaRhapsody]

254. BUT....and its a BIG BUT.....it says in the MISSION STATEMENT not just the terms of service

that this site is for the express purpose of electing

MORE DEMOCRATS....THAT is the mission....

My grandparents were life long FDR Democrats.....you trying to say that they "loved the party more than their country"?

by the way....My grandfather was in Normandy.....and in the CCC's.

so Bring IT Democrat!

[beerandjesus]

192. By the way, how come you never chime on on threads about the Kansas Senate race?

...is it because you'd support the Democrat, whom you're "committed" to support even though he dropped out, and help Pat Roberts win re-election?

Just wondering!

[billhicks76]

300. Hillary Is Our Romney

She's just not likeable

[beerandjesus]

227. Vanilla is a troll with no skin in the game.

Vanilla will be voting for whomever Free Republic endorses.

Unless Vanilla can name one--just one--Democratic issue.


Just one.

[Drunken Irishman]

261. I'm no Hillary supporter, but it does no one any good to compare poll numbers to 2008...

They're night and day. Clinton continually polled under 50% during much of the 2006-2008 polling - which indicated a majority of Democrats either supported someone else or weren't ready to support yet. Clinton, however, has yet to poll under 50% in any poll since they started gauging the race.

That is huge. It indicates a majority of Democrats TODAY are fine with Hillary being the nominee. That was not the case eight years ago. Eight years ago, there was a majority of Democrats who were already either against Clinton or open to voting someone else.

So, I don't necessarily look at her margins right now and instead focus on where her numbers are, and right now, they're well above 50%. No candidate is going to have any shot at winning the nomination if Clinton's numbers don't dip below 50% and even in 2008, where she lost, on the whole, she only polled above 40% in a handful of polls throughout 2006 and 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_Democratic_Party_2008_presidential_candidates

[AtomicKitten]

272. just cursory research reveals

HRC was actually kicking the shit out of the field through 2007 leaping ahead by 53% in a WaPo-ABC poll in 10/07, and that's with several other candidates running. Now, her polling is above 50% but that's with no real and actual contenders, so far.

The point here is that she had every conceivable advantage in 2008. It was hers to lose, and boy did she, with embarrassing drama and zero grace.

She is not inevitable.

March 1997: "Dems Favor Hillary Clinton for 2008": http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/14/democrats.poll/

December 2007: "Clinton Maintains Large Lead over Obama Nationally at 45%":
http://www.gallup.com/poll/103351/clinton-maintains-large-lead-over-obama-nationally.aspx

October 2007: Quoting a WaPo-ABC poll
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/10/03/hillary-clinton-leaps-ahead-in-latest-democratic-poll/

According to the Washington Post-ABC News survey,Clinton’s lead has expanded over the Illinois senator, and is now at 53 percent to 30 percent among Democrats and Democratic-leading independents surveyed between Sept. 28 through Sept. 30. Her support is up 12 points in just three weeks while Obama's has fallen 7 points. Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards ranked at 13 percent.

[Drunken Irishman]

273. You're side stepping the point...

Margins are irrelevant right now - what is not irrelevant is support over 50%. There, consistently, Clinton dominates. She didn't dominate in 2007 or even much of 2008. Out of hundreds of polls, she only broke 50% a handful of times. That is huge. In 2007, it was clear a MAJORITY of the party wanted someone other than Clinton. There is no evidence of that being the case now.

They're not the same. In 2008, she was inevitable only by margin. Now she's inevitable by both margin and the fact a clear majority of Democrats CONSISTENTLY put her as their candidate.

[AtomicKitten]

274. I would caution you against absolute certainty...

... we've been here before. Whose to say something amazing like Al Gore or Howard Dean running couldn't change the paradigm. If 2008 taught us nothing else, we now know anything could happen. I'm not impressed by Hillary's polling that you are promoting. It's too early and virtually meaningless. In my opinion, her 2008 kamikaze run makes success in 2016 dubious if not improbable. We shall see.

[Drunken Irishman]

280. I never said I was certain Hillary would win - but it's foolish to suggest 2008 is anywhere similar.

It's not. In 2008, Clinton had far worse numbers than she does today, both in overall support and image. Most Democrats were not supportive of her campaign, as she struggled even hitting the high 40s in most polls, and that was proof enough the inevitable aspect of her campaign was shaky - she did not have a majority of support among Democrats.

That isn't the case now. She does have the support of the Democratic Party. Whereas, eight years ago, you had difficulty finding a poll where she even hit 50% nationally, today you'll have difficulty finding any poll that shows her below 50%. In fact, it's impossible because one doesn't exist.

Not only that, Hillary's numbers are nowhere near 50%.

She's in the mid-to-high 60s in every poll done this past year - except for one and even they had Clinton at 58% nationally.

Hillary's margins are not only massive (she leads her second-closest competitor by nearly 50% - a margin she never touched in 2008), she's even out-polling her own margins by, in some instances, nearly 30 points compared to eight years ago.

Is Hillary beatable? Sure - but it's going to be an extremely though climb for anyone. In 2008, there was evidence that she was extremely vulnerable and that evidence doesn't seem to be shown in any poll for 2016.

[VanillaRhapsody]

295. and arent you doing the same?

6 of one half a dozen of the other.....however the odds are with my choice not yours!

[OilemFirchen]

52. Interesting.

Per my comments below, Obama and Kucinich were tied in this poll.

Sure was a close one, huh?

[Drunken Irishman]

263. Obama wasn't included in that poll.

He was, however, included in other polls from around that time (Oct, Nov 2006) that had him polling at 21% in some polls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_Democratic_Party_2008_presidential_candidates

[Drunken Irishman]

262. If you're going to quote a poll, quote one that actually asks about Obama...

It does no one any good to post a poll that doesn't even mention Obama.

In October, 2006, CNN released a poll that had Clinton with 29% and Obama with 17%.

In November, 2006, Rasmussen released a poll that had Clinton with 29% and Obama with 22%. McLaughlin & Associates Poll had Clinton with 31% and Obama with 19%. Cook Political Report/RT Strategies Poll had Clinton with 39% and Obama with 21%.

In fact, a whole host of polls from this time eight years ago, had Obama far out-pacing Bernie:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_Democratic_Party_2008_presidential_candidates

[thesquanderer]

267. I think that link supports my post more than yours!

I was looking at 2006 polls up until October 7 (the date of my post).

I don't see that "whole host of polls from this time eight years ago, [that] had Obama far out-pacing Bernie" - the ones with Obama start after October 7, i.e. less than 8 years ago. Things did start to shift quickly after October 7. And that's the point... things can shift quickly from now as well. As of October 7 2006, the Marist people did not think Obama had enough support or name recognition to even include him on their list of possible candidates for the poll! Nor had he appeared on anyone else's poll that year prior to that, so it wasn't just Marist.

(Surprisingly, though, Obama did show up in one 2005 poll, and did respectably well. But based on all the polling at the time--i.e. all the companies' polls up until Oct 7 2006--it seems that virtually no one was considering him known and/or viable enough to even bother polling for him.)

[Drunken Irishman]

270. It doesn't support your claim at all.

There is no poll that has Obama receiving as low of support as Sanders. Also, if you think his support is going to jump remotely close to where Obama's was in Nov. 06 in a month, you're going to be disappointed.

[blackcrowflies]

65. Unfortunately the leader in that poll is indistinguishable from a Republican.

[AtomicKitten]

66. exactly right

thank you

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. Yeah that is what all the Independents on DU are saying these days....

it seems all the rage!

[saltpoint]

71. Plenty of time for those numbers to shift. eom

[VanillaRhapsody]

77. You keep telling yourself that too....

I hope it helps!

[saltpoint]

246. She sure had it goin' last time before she got

smashed like a grape.

One of the worst campaigns ever.

If she doesn't do any better, she's not going to make it through this one either.

[VanillaRhapsody]

247. Like no one has ever been defeated and made a comeback huh?

that has NEVER happened....

She has polls that show her beating EVERY Republican mentioned...what have YOU got? hmmmm???

[saltpoint]

260. She had the same last time is the point.

She led last time. She got her butt kicked.

Her campaign was so poorly run that she deserved the loss.

Maybe she's learned a thing or two since. No sign of it so far, though.

[VanillaRhapsody]

264. Oh no my friend....she has MUCH MORE now....you will see...

I for one cannot wait to see the wailing on Democratic Underground! AND that is BULLFUCKINGSHIT about why she didn't become President....she has an AWESOME ground game and she has the Ladies of the Senate.....AND she will likely get Barack Obama's ground game too....not to mention she has 64% AND a full coffer....AND she polls winning against ANY Republic...

Again I ask...What the Fuck do you have that is better than that?

[saltpoint]

276. She leads now. She also led last time.

The lead last time didn't last.

We'll see how she does this next cycle.

Sanders can make it quite difficult for her in a debate if he runs as a Democrat. She's too far right to appeal to a significant slice of very motivated left Dems in the primary.

She has all kinds of cash, certainly. What she doesn't have is any assurance that her current polling will hold under challenge.

Sanders is awfully good speaking to that very motivated demographic. If that is not worrisome to Secretary Clinton, it probably ought to be.

[VanillaRhapsody]

285. SOOO??? She is STILL in POLL position!

and the wind is at her back....right now if the election were held today....it would be hers for the taking....AGAINST ANY Republican....THAT my friend is a statistic to be proud of.....on top of that ....its a WOMAN!

Unless you got a candidate that can beat those claims (4%)....I'll keep my money on the odds on favorite.

[billhicks76]

301. You Confuse Me

You despise the idea of a 3rd party and are happy with the corrupt 2 party system BUT you support a Democratic candidate that is so far to the right relatively speaking that a victory for her could ensure a bifurcation of such coveted party and Progressives giving up reforming internally and splitting off to form their own party like the Tea Party did. Isn't this counter productive as it will siphon of and dilute Democratic Party support? Big $ ensured that Tea Partiers ran within the Republican Party but it seems to me people in both parties want more choices and more parties. I was fine with remaining in the Democratic Party but if they go further right and elect Republican-Lite which is just the same as a 1992 Republican then I will assume our party has been hijacked and if Big $ prevents a purge then it's time to do something different. No more Joe Lieberman charlatans...anyone can run as a Democrat...even a fascist KKK member could.

[VanillaRhapsody]

303. Trust me....you were confused before you came across me....

I am a Democrat. PERIOD.....just like my deceased Grandparents were...who voted FOR FDR.....they voted Democrat ALL their lives.....

DO NOT presume to tell ME there is something wrong with THAT!


If YOU have a problem with DEMOCRATS.....obviously YOU are on the wrong forum....I guess you really ARE confused!

[billhicks76]

304. Total BS

I became a Democrat because I believe in it not because of nepotism. My grandparents and parents were elitist Republicans so it took a lot of true grit to go my own way. And our party is no longer what is was at the DLC level. You do not follow reason or common sense. I don't know your agenda but I do know you are more conservative than you are liberal as evidenced by all your weak posts. You want to be infatuated with Jeb vs Hillary go ahead. We will leave you behind because we decided a long time ago against coronations and monarchies.

[VanillaRhapsody]

305. a DEMOCRAT supports the DEMOCRATIC Party....

an Independent....who's real party cannot get their shit together to get anyone elected....are those that vote only for the Democrats THEY approve of....which for the most part is NONE OF THEM....in fact....if you are supporting Bernie Sanders....THAT is exactly what you are doing!

Its an election for a Primary AMONG DEMOCRATS....BY Democrats....apparently you don't know the difference between Democracy and Monarchy. The Democrats SELECT from a Primary....and if MOST of them agree on a candidate....that is the winner of the Primary ELECTION!!!!

GET it? It's how Democracy works.....YOU are NOT going to get every candidate YOU like.....its childish to think otherwise.

[billhicks76]

306. Hillary Acts Like A Monarch

Just like Jeb Bush...these two families are cut from the same cloth. I do not believe Hillary is a true Democrat so according to your logic she should not be participating in the primary. What if Jeb Bush decided to run as a Democrat? Would you support him? I believe Bernie caucuses with the Democrats at least. I will not vote for him but ONLY because I think he would lose later due to the stigma created by people like you regarding his party title. If you really care about the Democratic Party then you should find a better candidate than Republican loving Hillary.

[VanillaRhapsody]

307. bullshit...

Appatently you dont know the meaning of that word.

[billhicks76]

310. Wrong

Hillary was also President Of The College Republicans. How can anyone be a Republican in College? She has education, money and status and chose to be a Republican leader. No thanks

[HERVEPA]

89. There should be a penalty for the stupid use of ROTFLOL

[VanillaRhapsody]

91. Only when it is directed at YOUR side natch!

[HERVEPA]

92. You have no idea of my side. It's just a stupid use.

[VanillaRhapsody]

93. Uh yeah I do....

It's not Hillary Clinton's side is it?

[HERVEPA]

101. If she's the nominee, yes. Not my first choice.

[VanillaRhapsody]

111. ANY Democrat that is elected by Primary by your fellow Democrats!

that's how Democracy works!

[HERVEPA]

123. Including Bernie of course.

[VanillaRhapsody]

139. First he has to become one.....then he has to convince the Party to support him....

then he has to beat the field up to and including "Mrs. 64%"......who has a massive ground game already in place from last time ....why do you think they are saying "Ready for Hillary" for the past 2 yrs now? Not to mention she has the support of ALL the Ladies of the Senate.....lord knows THEY have absofuckinglutely no sway over large segments of voters AT ALL!.....

So yeah...if Bernie can overcome ALL of that.....and win the Primary....Yeah I support and vote for him.....see THAT is how Democracy works!

[dflprincess]

150. The way democracy works, Bernie has to convince voters to support him, not "the party".

[DisgustipatedinCA]

138. Voting for whomever wins the primary is how democracy works?

no. No, that's not how democracy works. This is the part where you accuse me of working for Lindsey Graham.

[VanillaRhapsody]

140. Uh yes.....that's what elections are for!

and at this time....64% of my fellow Democrats support Hillary Clinton and 4% support Bernie Sanders....that's how it works..

In Democracy....you don't always get what you want.....but if you try sometimes.....you get what you need.

United We Stand....Divided we fall.

[Magoo48]

191. By "real democrats" do you mean the warmongers and corporate lickspittles?

[TransitJohn]

275. Troll hard. eom

n/t

[sadoldgirl]

2. Great news, cali for both Senators! I love it! n/t

[woo me with science]

3. K&R

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. Ya gotta start somewhere. RUN, Bernie. Run. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Apparently, the 64% supporting Hillary have stronger nose-holding devices than I do.

[VanillaRhapsody]

8. apparently THEY are the Democrats as only

Non Democrats (aka Independents) would hold their nose to any Democrat becoming President over a Republican.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. I'm a Democrat. And, have often held my nose for the "lesser of two evils" Democrats.

As, I expect, most Democrats do.

[VanillaRhapsody]

11. not everyone who votes FOR Democrats are.

Independents vote for them too because they are Impotent as a party .so I am not buying....not everyone on DU is a Democrat either...

Are you committed to vote for whomever your fellow Democrats elect in a Primary?

[Dawgs]

13. Independants voting for Hillary?

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. who else they got when she wins the Primary?

Rand Paul?

[Robbins]

31. Noone

It won't make a bit of difference who wins.She is In bed with wall street just as much as republicans.she will keep endless war going.
She will screw the middle class and those on social safety net just like republicans In name of Bi-partisan just like Bill Clinton did with
wellfare reform and dereguraltion.

[VanillaRhapsody]

43. says the Independent

[deutsey]

178. +1

[Robbins]

18. I am not doing that this time

Hillary has now made it official I can't hold my noise and vote for her while i would never vote republican.

Why don't she just run for republican nomination she agrees with them on

war
Corporations
Trade deals
The keystone pipeline
Attacking Obama

I will be supporting the best alternate to her In primarys.

I would vote for other democrats here In Missouri but not her.

[VanillaRhapsody]

23. hello there Independent

[Robbins]

35. Independent?

I have voted democrat In every election sine i was able to In 1992.But,she has made it impossable to vote for her In november 2016
election since on too many issues she isn't much different than republicans.

[think]

37. Any response to the actual issues or points of contention mentioned?

seriously....

[VanillaRhapsody]

44. my response

[think]

48. Hilarious..../nt

[tkmorris]

61. So, no

Also, you are very rude.

[VanillaRhapsody]

82. Actually I am a Democrat on DU who is committed to vote for the Democratic Primary winner

and Bernie is so far....NOT a Democrat!

Better get a thicker skin....this ain't TiddleWinks!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

119. Obviously, your principles concerning party differ from mine and TJ's.

But, we do have being on DU in common. Alas, TJ is no longer capable of being a member of a party or a DU member. If he was on DU, I'm sure you would tell him to grow a thicker skin and and toe the party line.

[VanillaRhapsody]

121. My principles are....I VOTE for Democrats.....

I work for their campaigns too....

and who in the hell is TJ....and why should I care?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

148. Thomas Jefferson wrote the quote above.

And, here's another you needn't care about:

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." [/i Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

And, another by another Democrat who you would condemn as an (gasp!) Independent:

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

[VanillaRhapsody]

149. I AM voting my Principles.....my Principles tell me....do NOT let Republicans win....

go with the winner!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

151. As I said, your principles obviously differ from mine and TJ's.

[VanillaRhapsody]

78. 64%....how is THAT for point!

[LiberalLovinLug]

241. what a hollow way to decide your personal politics

Whoever is in the lead is your choice?

So if Joe Lieberman was running and had 64% at this point, you'd be all for him too?

Do you also scan other stories about "The Top Ten ....." and always go for the top choice? I imagine you are the annoying type that always picks the front runner in any sports game just so you can after they win and brag about how you nailed it. That takes zero effort on your part. An incredibly lazy way to make a candidate choice. No wonder you have not been able to actually debate Hillary's positions on pertinent subjects building up to the present to support your choice with any substance......other than she is ahead in the polls.

Look its pretty obvious to most everyone on here that Hillary will probably win the primary. And I also think most everyone on here will vote for her, especially if she is going up against another Bush. What annoys people is your coronation of Hillary with no reasoning at all behind it as to why it would be best for the country. IMO she must have her feet held to the fire and earn it. Most Progressives, Liberals, and Democrats think a little deeper when making such important choices and want to hear other voices, and want to hear her defend herself on her positions before we give her such an important job. This kind of blinder cheerleading is reminiscent of GOP supporters.

[m-lekktor]

19. I never like the DEM I always vote for every election. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

22. like I said.....you might be an Independent

With no place else to go..

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. ARE you committed to vote for the Primary winner?

You could vote for the Democrat while holding your nose your whole life....still doesn't guarantee you are Democrat....Independents are an impotent party so they have no place else to go....and will hold their noses and vote for Democrats...

Again are you committed to vote for whomever wins the Democratic Primary election?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

113. No. I'm not "committed" to any party or candidate.

Count me with this kind of Democrat:

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

[VanillaRhapsody]

114. Hello Independent Voter!

Democracy means you don't always get what YOU want....

[LawDeeDah]

63. Do you call this lunatic a Democrat? I sure don't.

[VanillaRhapsody]

79. Do we have to call you one?

[LawDeeDah]

83. I am a Democrat, yes. One can be one and not lick Hillary's feet.

She isn't the Party, ya know. There are other people involved!

lol. oboy.

[VanillaRhapsody]

84. If you are not committed to voting for the winner of the Primary you are not!

the PARTY says 64% about her....Apparently they believe she is more of a Democrat than they think you are!

[LawDeeDah]

85. and the winner is?...

LOL! You are so much fun.

[VanillaRhapsody]

86. A DEMOCRAT!!!!

what were YOU thinking?

[LawDeeDah]

95. and Hillary Is The Only Democrat... what are YOU drinking?

[VanillaRhapsody]

97. she is the ONLY one polling at 64% and can beat every single Republican comer

what have YOU Got?

[LawDeeDah]

103. I got deja vu of 2008.

You got nothing but hopes and dreams and a crystal ball that is due for a trip to the shop and a tune up. Which is nice! We all need that but I choose different things for that.

[cascadiance]

159. So... were you "happy" when Clinton didn't win in 2008 and you HAD to vote for Obama?

For you by your own definition of terms to be a Democrat?

IF, Bernie Sanders were to win in 2016 the nomination, would you be a "Democrat" and vote for him for winning the nomination then? If not, then get off your high horse about us not being Democrats if we don't vote for Clinton!

[MissDeeds]

188. +1000 n/t

[deutsey]

177. Same here

I've used my nose-holding device so often since I started voting in the '80s, I think I need a new one.

[BeyondGeography]

9. The comparison with Dean is interesting

He had a great summer of 2003, with his Sleepless Summer Tour and lots of buzz that helped him build a formidable campaign. Whoever wants to challenge Hillary will need a similar effort or they will go nowhere. The energy is there to be tapped.

[OilemFirchen]

20. Giving Kucinich a run for his money!

Go Bernie !

[VanillaRhapsody]

25. hahahaha that was clever!

[OilemFirchen]

33. Will history repeat itself?

Kucinich polled last several years out from the 2008 primaries, but he managed to ultimately rocket to fifth place. And took home a respectable .27% of the primary and caucus votes. He was, of course, the clear victor on the DU poll of polls - the gold standard, as it were.

Go Bernie !

[VanillaRhapsody]

45. close only counts in horseshoes

[hrmjustin]

29. If he runs he will make it interesting but i am supporting Hillary.

I wish him well.

[AtomicKitten]

122. thank you for your grace and civility .nt.

[hrmjustin]

130. Your welcome.

[stevenleser]

194. I'm in a similar spot. I love Bernie and hope he runs, but I am supporting Hillary.

I think Bernie running would do a lot of good for a number of reasons. But Hillary will be POTUS on Jan 21 2017.

[MineralMan]

32. They should both run if they choose to.

The primaries will make the decision.

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. and they will

Thats the point but hr wont win the primary

[MineralMan]

62. Maybe they will. We'll see in 2016.

[VanillaRhapsody]

81. Hillary's running....much to their chagrin!

[cascadiance]

160. Obama, is laughing at you!

[RoccoR5955]

36. Biased poll.

These polls can be made to get any result that they want.
Once people hear about Sanders' plans, he can win!

[democrank]

38. Some of these replies make me chuckle.

I`d love to hear more from Bernie, or anyone else with new ideas.....and I`ve voted for a Democrat for nearly 50 years.

If Bernie runs, he`ll make sure the corporate talking points get shaken up a bit, especially when he reminds party members about issues they used to care about.....and fight for.

[tk2kewl]

42. I don't know if they are the same posts...

But some of these post make me

In a 2 party system if you don't have candidates challenging the status quo you really don't have much at all.

[VanillaRhapsody]

87. Yeah because getting things done for Barack Obama.....has just been a breeze right?

a cakewalk right?

[SoapBox]

39. I'm gonna take a hit for this...

I like what Bernie has to say but...

Does he have the "presence" to win? The look? The voice? The stature?

It might be superficial but I think it plays into a vote (people are stupid).

I have always thought that PBO has great "presence".

[nomorenomore08]

47. I think you're right. But having him in the conversation will hopefully highlight more progressive

policy positions, if nothing else.

[geek tragedy]

53. He wouldn't be running to win but

rather to advance ideas and policies.

[arcane1]

54. Sadly, we audition people to play president, rather than elect people to BE president

TV ruined a lot

[harun]

206. Very True

No one running to actually be president will get any media coverage.

[ozone_man]

257. Yes, unfortunately.

They are mostly actors now, except for Bernie and Elizabeth Warren and some others.

[cali]

59. no, but he sure has the ability to focus the attention of people on issues that would otherwise

be left out.

[LawDeeDah]

73. Unfortunately theater has a lot to do with it.

Candidates hire expensive specialists to advise on how to stand, speak, what color to wear...

but some don't really need false coaching, I think President Obama is one of those people. He is himself, he's no bad actor. I think Sanders falls into this category too - people like genuine honesty and it shows in these guys. Hillary doesn't have that - you always wonder WTF DID SHE MEAN BY THAT? because she seems to want to just not say anything as to not offend or insult but she ends up doing that to a lot more people by being disingenuous.

[lumberjack_jeff]

99. "Presence"? Perhaps not, but I prefer substance.

And Sanders has that.

[SoapBox]

129. Thanks folks...

So I didn't get slaughtered for my thoughts.

I do think he would bring a whole new level to the conversations...and make a lot of other potentials squirm! If America (voting majority) jumped on his campaign, I would be all in!

[G_j]

144. (as an example) way back when, I supported Jesse Jackson in the primaries

without him in the debates, it is highly unlikely that the issue of poverty would ever have been even mentioned at all. I always support the most progressive candidates in the primaries. It improves the dialoque.

[MoonchildCA]

164. I know what you're saying,

but here's the thing, he has a way of talking about the issues, with such ease, in such plain language, and with such clarity, I really think it more than makes up for his lack of "traditional charms" shall we say.

I don't really believe he could win, but I do believe he can bring issues to light, and bring more people on board to Democratic ideas than any other candidate on the horizon--even Elizabeth Warren (though I love her and wouldn't mind seeing her in the race too.)

There's nothing, really, to dislike about Bernie, save for his "socialist" label. He isn't even a socialist, but a democratic socialist, which, in his case, is just a democrat who is willing to speak out for a strong social safety net.

I honestly believe there is something about him that can appeal to the libertarian wing of the tea party. A few, may be wiling to hate corporations more than government...

[geek tragedy]

51. 4% is nothing to celebrate.

It's barely the margin of error.

[JoeyT]

55. Good.

We don't need a president from Wal-Mart. I voted against Hillary in the primary against Obama, which she lost, and it's kind of ridiculous the party money is going to keep throwing her at us until we give in.

If you can vote for the war in Iraq and show no remorse until politics forces you to do so, and even then just barely, you're an awful person and don't deserve to be president.

[OilemFirchen]

58. Hey!

Where are Jeff Boss, Vermin Supreme and Robby Wells? They're the only declared candidates, yet they don't appear on this poll?

Fuck the man.

[sadoldgirl]

60. While I don't have money to spare

I just ordered a few bumper stickers for Bernie from PDA.

As far as I can see he needs to be in the debates at least.

[saltpoint]

70. If Sanders runs...

the current frontrunner is going to have to bring a better game than her unfocused and often lackluster effort last time.

Actually she needs a better game, period, whether Sanders is running or not.

I like Bernie Sanders. His voice could bring some real life to the nomination race.

[rhett o rick]

238. If he runs it may stir up populace support for candidates other then the Oligarchy's favorite. nm

[panader0]

88. Cool- he's on the radar officially.

K and R for Bernie!

[VanillaRhapsody]

94. so was Kucinich once...

and Ralph Nader...and Ross Perot!

[panader0]

102. What IS your agenda? You're not doing your candidate a service.

I think that it's great that Bernie is being noticed. His ideas are certainly more "democratic" than Hillary's.
Sure, he's a long shot, but as been shown above, long shots can win. The election is quite a bit away, and that fact that he's getting noticed is a good thing. At the worst. he may force Hillary to the left. (although I doubt it). So good, the more candidates, the more positions to choose from.
On edit: I lived through Kucinich and Nadar and Perot. I liked some of Dennis. But, to me, Bernie is better than those guys,

[VanillaRhapsody]

105. Bernie is NOT a Democrat....I favor Democrats....

Last edited Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Long shots RARELY win.....

She polls higher than ANY Republican head to head.....can Bernie even say that? NO he cannot!

So do not presume to begrudge me MY opinion and say somehow it is hurting MY Candidate...MY Candidate is WHOEVER wins the Democratic Primary....and right now she is the Shoe in!

[beerandjesus]

217. "The Democrat primary..."

The true colors are showing.


TROLL.

[VanillaRhapsody]

219. I am on a phone...duh mistype

Thanks...fixed

[Marr]

313. Wow-- yeah, I've got to say, that settles it for me.

Just a common troll.

[Rex]

314. YEP.

[smokey nj]

120. Its agenda is to bully and disrupt.

It does this in every thread where Bernie Sanders' name is mentioned.

[840high]

154. ...^ that - Go Bernie!

[Union Scribe]

155. Yep. Guys' got a real rage-on for Bernie.

I mean, if Sanders was as insignificant as his detractors keep saying, why are they spending so much time belittling him and his supporters?

[canoeist52]

233. Why is always a good question to ask. The answer, I believe, is fear.

[Stardust]

124. Can we have just one discussion about the 2016 race without a certain someone highjacking the

thread?!?

[G_j]

125. doesn't look too good

this particlar person seems intent on harrassing people and making discussion of issues impossible.

[Marr]

147. Hey, when you get paid to do a job, you do it.

At least, I hope that's the case. I'd hate to think anyone would waste whole days determinedly trolling a message board on behalf of some corporate politician for free.

[Union Scribe]

156. They make me miss ProSense.

Well, almost.

[Marr]

158. Yeah, at least the Pro was coherent.

Deceitful as hell, but coherent.

[billhicks76]

302. Hillary Is Toast And Trolls Paid Or Not Can't Change It

Rand Paul just became the 1st Presidential nominee to visit Ferguson and meet with community leaders. So now he has preempted us on drug policy, marijuana legalization, wars of aggression and police brutality and militarization. Hillary is in the pocket of the Mass Incarceration Complex and even forfeiture policies that even some conservatives now see as just plain wrong. It's common sense. So now we better find a candidate of our own who isnt corrupted like Hillary is. Quit holding onto the past. It's about the future which is dynamic and fluid not static and rigid.

[neverforget]

162. That one views competition as apocalyptic to Hillary

Last edited Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:05 AM - Edit history (1)

I swear I've seen this one here before doing parody

[Capt. Obvious]

199. I haven't noticed anyone hijacking the thread

[beerandjesus]

239. Not till that certain someone gets banned for trolling

...which seems bound to happen eventually, since said certain someone seems incapable of supporting a single Democratic policy.

[tritsofme]

143. Alternate headline: Poll Shows Sanders with Statistically Insignificant Support

Within the margin of error.

[emulatorloo]

153. Great news, thanks for posting this n/t

[davidpdx]

168. But god forbid you saying you are going to vote against Hillary

They'll put you on the super-duper secret blacklist. I just love the inevitability fail of Hillary supporters.

[arthritisR_US]

169. He doesn't have her name recognition and

yet he polls higher...he should be considered seriously by the Democrats. They need to wake the feck up and stand for their core values which he does.

[SmittynMo]

170. OMG, what a pissing session!!!!

Everyone is right. It's going to be a landslide tie. No one loses.

[marym625]

173. LMAO! n/t

[marym625]

174. It's 2 years away

Bill Clinton was hardly heard of prior to the Iowa caucus. Ya just don't know at this point.

I hope Bernie runs as a Democrat only because there are Democrats that will never vote any other way, even if the Democrat running is a warmongering, corporate stooge. I had read he won't but again, it's 2 years away.

If the democratic party leaders have any sense, they'll start wooing him.

Go Bernie!

[Gamecock Lefty]

179. SC Nominees!

I like Sanders and Warren, but I really like Hillary!

Remember, the first objective is to WIN and she can win – maybe not on this particular thread, but she can win! And Supreme Court nominees are pivotal. Above all else, and I do mean this is the #1 issue with me, is that we must swing the Supreme Court back to being more liberal. We cannot afford a Republican in the White House nominating more Scalias and Thomases!!!

[MissDeeds]

190. Run, Bernie, run!

K&R

[Babel_17]

197. I predict Sanders will soon be at 10 percent

I predict Sanders will soon be at 10 percent. From that point on, the import of his platform, and the groundswell of support it generates, will dominate the discussion of the Democratic Presidential primaries.

Then things will get fascinating.

[Brewinblue]

231. Agree 100%

Once his liberal, but populist, message gets out, his numbers will climb steadily. If Obama could win, why not Bernie?

[Babel_17]

201. Just to be clear, the poll is in regards to the Democratic primary

Democrats and Democratic leaning independents
If the 2016 Democratic presidential primary or caucus in your state were held today, whom would you
support if the candidates are:

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/misc/usapolls/us140925/2016/2016_McClatchy-Marist%20Poll%20National%20Tables_October%202014.pdf#page=5

[DonCoquixote]

211. Suppose we know for a FACT Bernie cannot win

and I do not mean conjecture, I mean God coming to earth with a crew of angels and saying "BERNIE SHALL NOT WIN, IT"S AS TRUE AS FOUR BEING TWO PLUS TWO!"

Bernie should run, why, because right now, the people people saying she is inevtable are often centrists whp are hoping tpo get her to commit to right wing causes, such as budget cuts, and renewing Bibi Netanyau's licsense to kill (as much as he wants.) If bernie runs, she will have to at least pretend to acknowledge all these liberals the party was been trying to shake off for years.

[George II]

235. And Dean didn't win the nomination.

There's a HUGE obstacle to Sanders getting the Democratic nomination - he's not a registered Democrat.

[FBaggins]

237. That must be one heck of a poweful radar...

,,, to pick up something so remote.

[DirkGently]

242. Interesting! n/t

[Zorra]

259. Bernie! Recommended. nt

[magical thyme]

265. Run, Bernie! Run! nt

[mmonk]

266. Not bad for a candidate this far out

with no real press coverage yet.

[Babel_17]

279. He's generating all kinds of excitement

I feel a wind of change on my face; it's invigorating.

[Rex]

281. Oh dear!

Did the room just move a little?

[Babel_17]

289. Wow, 288 posts!

He hasn't declared, he's still mostly an unknown, and he's started at only 4% in the polls. Hang on to your hats if his numbers soon climb or/and he declares as a Democrat and a candidate.

I think we have time to prepare for that hypothetical, at least a few months. If/when that day comes we'll look back to the times of only 288 posts and smile. "Ah, good times, good times."*

*William Evelyn "Bill" McNeal (Phil Hartman)