Do People Hate Vegans?

[G_j]

Last edited Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:13 AM - Edit history (2)

Personally, I think the word "hate" is way overused these days. That's why I changed the title to a question. I am not a Vegan myself, though I have been mostly vegetarian for most of my years. I have not seen hatred towards Vegans myself, though the people I generally hang with are pretty open minded.

http://veganchowhound.com/rants/people-hate-vegans-freud-could-explain-why/

PEOPLE HATE VEGANS, FREUD COULD EXPLAIN WHY
FEBRUARY 23, 2014 MIKE LEE 46 COMMENTS

Hey, you know how you can tell someone is a vegan? Don’t worry, they’ll let you know.

People hate vegans. It’s weird. You wouldn’t think that avoiding chicken nuggets would warrant the abuse.

Vegans are one of the last remaining minorities that can be made fun of, marginalized and ridiculed publicly and have it be socially acceptable. Obviously vegans do not have it as bad as truly persecuted people like minorities, homosexuals and women, but the world is not vegan friendly. Freud pioneered the concept of defense mechanisms, and I think they explain some of the irrational hate vegans receive.

If you are vegan, you probably avoid mentioning your dietary habits at all costs. The truth always gets out, and when it does get ready for an onslaught of sensitive meat eaters. There’s the mocking, having your masculinity, sanity and/or intelligence questioned, the annoying jokes and even more annoying questions. There’s the smug superiority you’ll encounter. Oh, and bacon will be brought up, lest you forget that it is literally the greatest thing that a human can experience.

There’s this silly stereotype of the hostile, preachy vegan. I have never met one in my life. Only 2% of people in the USA claim to be vegan. Vegans are a minority, and people hate vegans. This leads many, myself included, to try to keep it mum mum as much as possible. The V word stirs up a lot of emotion in people.

Why though?

<snip>

Think about how awful an average factory farm is. EVERYONE has to have some idea of how bad it is. Imagine the thought of killing an animal and it’s screams of agony. Just think of how damaging factory farms are to the planet. Imagine the nightmare that awaits us as our natural world’s systems collapse. This stuff is HORRIFYING.

..more..

[dembotoz]

1. if they would just shut up

[DetlefK]

3. They would shut up if there were more vegan meals.

[Oktober]

230. I feel your pain... I only eat animals that were left paw dominant...

Most restaurants don't understand and time and again I have to give my speech to the wait staff, cook staff and my fellow patrons about the benefits of a left paw dominant diet.

[DetlefK]

235. Just a personal anecdote:

The only time I met "real" vegan so far was at a workshop. It was at lunch in a restaurant when he asked for a pizza free of cheese and meat and with extra vegetables. If there had been one or several dishes explicitly labeled "vegan", I doubt he would have had to make a custom order.

[mucifer]

2. I'm vegan

If people ask me why I say I love animals. If they want more details I ask them if they are sure they want to know. Usually they say no. Most of us aren't preachy.

Reality is so harsh that some vegans do get into the details of why and that is upsetting to people. Many vegans are of the mindset that upsetting an omnivore is less important than exposing to people the realities of factory farming.

I can understand why people go the activist route. For me I prefer to have some time going to vegan meetups with like minded people and spend other time with omnivores when I'm not much discussing factory farming and those issues.

I think most vegans are like me.

[ZombieHorde]

127. When I was a vegan, and was asked why,

I would say that I hated animals, and the sooner we ended our dependence upon them, the sooner we could kill them all. That wasn't my true feelings, but people didn't seem to know how to react to that, and would just laugh and leave me alone about it.

[CrispyQ]

136. I tell them I like to eat as far away from my own DNA as possible.

Some people don't even get it.

[ZombieHorde]

139. Ha! nt

[Marrah_G]

163. I think most are like you too

Most Vegans I know don't get preachy. When I meet one that does I just walk away.

[Retrograde]

191. I never ask why

mainly because I really don't care why people chose to eat what they do. If I'm inviting a person to my home for a meal I'll ask if there are any restrictions if I don't know them well, but if I do know their preferences I accommodate them, because that's just good manners.

I make and eat a lot of vegetarian meals because I like vegetables. I have no objections to eating meat or using animal products (and if one is going to kill an animal for food, shouldn't one try to use as much of its body as possible?), I just like veggies.

[eridani]

218. Those icky pamphlets did inspire me to get meat only from

--small farmers in a co-op in Eastern Washington. Humane slaughter according to their website. More expensive because it incorporates true costs--therefore we are going for much less meat at much higher quality.

[seabeyond]

4. huh. i havent seen it. the few i know, people seem to work hard toward their sensitivity.

not buying it.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

54. I like vegans

if you let them marinate overnight and don't cook them too long.

[seabeyond]

62. i got an easy, yummy, low cost recipe this summer. i kinda appreciate them. lol

i dont gotta eat meat every meal.

[LiberalElite]

170. I have a recipe for vegan creamed spinach-

tastes like the conventional version but there's no cholesterol.

[antiquie]

152. Some of us are so tough

marinating overnight often makes us tougher.

[surrealAmerican]

5. 2% sounds like a very high estimate.

I would have thought it was much lower.

[Eric J in MN]

8. Two percent doesn't represent people who call themselves "vegans."

It refers to a poll in which people are read a list of foods and asked if they eat them.

Two percent only give "Yes" answers to vegan food.

If they buy leather, then they aren't vegans, but the poll doesn't cover that.

[TexasProgresive]

66. And you never know what might make use of animals

My preferred guitar strings made by Thomastik are metal so that should be alright for a vegan, but the ends are wrapped with silk to secure the windings. So a vegan could not use these wonderful strings since silk requires the death of the worm.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

204. violinists sometimes use gut wrapped in steel or silver.

I've used Pirastro Gold Label and I think they are sheep gut wrapped in steel. They stretch a lot and are likely to break while you've attached them and are winding them around the peg. Nowadays most people, even classical fiddlers, use Perlon which is nylon.

[ZombieHorde]

128. There are different definitions for the word "vegan."

Some are diet only, which is the definition usually found in dictionaries. The other definitions are political.

[Eric J in MN]

237. This is the first definition at the Merriam Webster website

"veg·an noun \ˈvē-gən also ˈvā- also ˈve-jən or -ˌjan\

: a person who does not eat any food that comes from animals and who often also does not use animal products (such as leather)"

Vegan authors such as Joanne Stepaniak say that a vegan is someone who avoids buying animal products, not just food from animals.

On vegan message boards, you probably won't find anyone who thinks that someone who buys leather clothing can be a vegan.

[Spider Jerusalem]

6. I'm indifferent to vegans

I hate preachy proselytising fanatics, religious and otherwise. You've made a life decision/lifestyle choice/religious commitment that you find ethically compelling, morally correct and that you're happy with; good for you, I'm very happy for you. I'd appreciate your respecting my right to not make the same decision while recognising that people who don't agree with your ideology are not in fact morally defective.

[kestrel91316]

81. +1

[hifiguy]

93. Eeyup

[laundry_queen]

209. This. nt

[merrily]

7. I don't know if ordinary people hate vegans per se.

Last edited Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:14 AM - Edit history (1)

I think some do get tired of hearing about it, which is a different thing from just being a vegan.


ETA: Then again, I've always lived in blue states and usually in large cities in blue states to boot.

[RebelOne]

9. I am a vegetarian, so do not hate vegans.

I just can't go to the extremes that vegans do because I love dairy products and leather goods.

[Generic Brad]

183. You eat leather goods?

To each their own, I suppose.

[freshwest]

214. I think I'll just leave that one alone...

[whatthehey]

10. because of petulant whiny self-absorbed screeds like this article perhaps?

I don't drink coffee. I just refuse it when offered (almost always in events or meetings in the morning) and ignore it else, and never bring it up as a particularity or conscious decision (this is literally a first, and only as a clear analogy). If vegans did the same, nobody would even have a name or association for them, let alone the negative, self-created loading about which they complain.

[Orsino]

14. The article does quickly drift off the alleged topic...

...and into preachiness. I don't disagree, but am I being trolled or something?

It begins to resemble the opinion of the stereotypical vegan some people like to hate.

[Oktober]

234. Feels like trolling...

... but stereotypes exist for a reason so...

Who knows?

[frogmarch]

11. The hostility toward vegans

is a defensive mechanism. Meat-eaters don't like the perceived implication that they're cruel and barbaric. To prove they're not, some meat-eaters will try to (or threaten to) beat the shit out of us.

[elias7]

174. Life eats life, meat or veg, it's not a defense mechanism, but if it helps you sleep...

Where would meat eaters get the idea that they are cruel and barbaric? Unless perhaps you are in fact implying it. In which case, the hostility would be a defense mechanism, but of a different sort than you think.

[Luminous Animal]

178. One of the biggest anti-CAFO spokesperson is a meat eater. He agrees that our meat production

practices are cruel and barbaric. That would be Michael Pollan.

http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/an-animals-place/

his is going to sound quixotic, but maybe all we need to do to redeem industrial animal agriculture in this country is to pass a law requiring that the steel and concrete walls of the CAFO’s and slaughterhouses be replaced with . . . glass. If there’s any new “right” we need to establish, maybe it’s this one: the right to look.

No doubt the sight of some of these places would turn many people into vegetarians. Many others would look elsewhere for their meat,

Corporate food producers are also massively destructive to the environment.

[freshwest]

215. I knew someone that went vegetarian when his college made a field trip to a slaughterhouse. I forgot

why they took him there, as he was working on degrees in mathematics and physics. He never ate meat again, refused to go into the corporate world. He was gifted with many shares Standard Oil stock by his family and became a baker and then bought a large farm to become a gentleman vegetable farmer. Things have gone very well for him and his.

[wyldwolf]

12. Listen - if God hadn't wanted us to eat animals he wouldn't have made them out of meat!

I know, old joke.

[ZombieHorde]

130. Babies are both meaty and defenseless.

God needs us to eat them. Yum, yum, yum.

[wyldwolf]

154. Zombies know no bigotry

[Marrah_G]

164. True!

[brooklynite]

13. My philosophy on Vegans is the same as my philosophy on Fundamentalist Christians

I have no objection to how they live their lives as long as they make no attempt (through holier-than-thou moralizing or Government policy) to change how I live mine.

[FLPanhandle]

21. +1

Live your life however you want. The minute you try to convert me, then we have a problem.

[KittyWampus]

55. So you prefer to eat your meat ignoring the huge environmental costs its production

levies upon us and our children and their children.

Tell me, do you also have a similar philosophy about those who want to change our petroleum based society to a more green society?

[brooklynite]

57. ...and, there we have it.

[alphafemale]

79. I know....right?

They cannot resist the "I am morally superior to you!" sceerd.

[KittyWampus]

94. What part of that post even remotely invokes an attitude of "morally superior"?

What it does is poke at our habitual eating of meat the same way activists point out our use of petroleum, chemicals etc.

[KittyWampus]

91. Right, your unthinking habits must not be highlighted because your feel threatened.

[Luminous Animal]

97. So, if I advocate for renewable energy, I'm an environmentalist. If I advocate for

an expanded plant based diet and the end to factory farms, I am a holier than thou fundamentalist.

From the United Nations:

Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars, UN report warns

29 November 2006 – Cattle-rearing generates more global warming greenhouse gases, as measured in CO2 equivalent, than transportation, and smarter production methods, including improved animal diets to reduce enteric fermentation and consequent methane emissions, are urgently needed, according to a new United Nations report released today.

“Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today’s most serious environmental problems,” senior UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) official Henning Steinfeld said. “Urgent action is required to remedy the situation.”

Cattle-rearing is also a major source of land and water degradation, according to the FAO report, Livestock’s Long Shadow–Environmental Issues and Options, of which Mr. Steinfeld is the senior author.

“The environmental costs per unit of livestock production must be cut by one half, just to avoid the level of damage worsening beyond its present level,” it warns.

When emissions from land use and land use change are included, the livestock sector accounts for 9 per cent of CO2 deriving from human-related activities, but produces a much larger share of even more harmful greenhouse gases. It generates 65 per cent of human-related nitrous oxide, which has 296 times the Global Warming Potential (GWP) of CO2. Most of this comes from manure.

And it accounts for respectively 37 per cent of all human-induced methane (23 times as warming as CO2), which is largely produced by the digestive system of ruminants, and 64 per cent of ammonia, which contributes significantly to acid rain.

With increased prosperity, people are consuming more meat and dairy products every year, the report notes. Global meat production is projected to more than double from 229 million tonnes in 1999/2001 to 465 million tonnes in 2050, while milk output is set to climb from 580 to 1043 million tonnes.

The global livestock sector is growing faster than any other agricultural sub-sector. It provides livelihoods to about 1.3 billion people and contributes about 40 per cent to global agricultural output. For many poor farmers in developing countries livestock are also a source of renewable energy for draft and an essential source of organic fertilizer for their crops.

Livestock now use 30 per cent of the earth’s entire land surface, mostly permanent pasture but also including 33 per cent of the global arable land used to producing feed for livestock, the report notes. As forests are cleared to create new pastures, it is a major driver of deforestation, especially in Latin America where, for example, some 70 per cent of former forests in the Amazon have been turned over to grazing.

At the same time herds cause wide-scale land degradation, with about 20 per cent of pastures considered degraded through overgrazing, compaction and erosion. This figure is even higher in the drylands where inappropriate policies and inadequate livestock management contribute to advancing desertification.

The livestock business is among the most damaging sectors to the earth’s increasingly scarce water resources, contributing among other things to water pollution from animal wastes, antibiotics and hormones, chemicals from tanneries, fertilizers and the pesticides used to spray feed crops.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?newsID=20772#.VDVk2hZCj-k

[brooklynite]

123. The analogy fails...

...unless you're proposing that all other forms of energy usage should be dropped.

[Luminous Animal]

125. Ultimately, yes. And, as an environmentalist and a social and political activist,

I will continue to advocate that humans drastically reduce their meat eating habit. Eliminating CAFOs will go along way to curtail the availability of meat thus, essentially, forcing people to eat alternatives.

[daleanime]

99. OK, right, you've got it....

but are you willing to answer the question?

[kestrel91316]

84. Nobody has to be a strict, "ethical" vegan to be a good environmentalist.

Better that people cut back on the factory-farmed animal products, but if they aren't able to give them up 100% I'm not going to fault them. Neither can I.

[KittyWampus]

101. I personally am not an ethical vegan… I just don't buy or cook meat for myself.

And as I posted elsewhere in this thread… I eat meat if it's served to me at a friend's house.

That said, the overwhelming majority of meat-eaters cannot stand to have their habits brought into the light and feel threatened when it is.

My responses in this thread are largely playing devil's advocate with the intent of pointing out how many liberals will support activists who go to extremes for other environmental issues but can't deal with bringing up the negative impacts of the meat industries.

Even if we limited the discussion to buying local, organic and humanely raised meat- many DU'ers would call that being elitist and say there's no difference between industrial meat and local/organic meat.

[hughee99]

110. Just curious, when you eat meat at a friends house, do you spend dinnertime telling them about the

massive environmental damage eating meat is causing?

[kestrel91316]

132. No. That would be incredibly rude.

I love the taste of many meats and animal products. I just think it's healthier if I eat little of them. And it's much better for the environment.

I also ride a bike/use mass transit rather than driving a car. I don't harangue drivers.

A person can and should lead by example. If you'd stop flamebaiting me maybe you'd understand that.

[hughee99]

140. Flambating you? I haven't responded to your posts.

Last edited Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:20 PM - Edit history (1)

KittyWampus was the one who stepped up to provide an example of the sort of thing brooklynite had mentioned, then KittyWampus went on to say they do eat meat at a friends house.

My question was for KW, the person who isn't afraid to remind someone of the "huge environmental costs its production levies upon us and our children and their children.", but is okay eating meat at a friends house.

[Travis_0004]

119. Yes

On a related note, I cant decide between fish or steak tonight, any suggestions.

[DontTreadOnMe]

225. Surf 'n Turf.. go both!

have a salad too.. baked potato with sour cream... and yeah.. add some bacon somewhere.

[Aerows]

167. I've seen studies

that insects and worms can be an environmentally friendly source of protein and satisfy meat cravings.

I would have to be lied to in order for me to try them, but that does indicate that the eating of insect and worm "meat" could lead to a more environmentally sound society. If successfully lied to, and they tasted okay, I could get on board with that.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/34172/title/Why-Insects-Should-Be-in-Your-Diet/

http://www.ibtimes.com/wormburger-anyone-worm-meat-more-sustainable-beef-pork-chicken-milk-study-955606

[DonCoquixote]

15. no

Last edited Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:42 AM - Edit history (1)

The only time I get angry with anoyone is if they insist on being rude..Yes, come vegans are rude, but then again, so are some French Chefs, BBQ joint owners and others who think their cuisine should be followed like a religion.

[frazzled]

16. It's not about avoiding chicken nuggets

Veganism is not vegetarianism. It's about avoiding cheese, milk, eggs, honey, or any other product that comes from an animal (including many cosmetics or soaps or materials such as silk or wool).

I don't hate vegans, but here's what I do hate. I am used to preparing vegetarian meals for a dinner party—I can at least make great pasta dishes—homemade sweet potato gnocchi with butter and sage, for example—or souffles. I can create elaborate vegetable-based dishes using eggs as a binder or butter as a flavor enhancer to oils. But I can't serve anything like that if a vegan is present. I will always go to great lengths to accommodate vegans in my home. But I hate it. I hate having to make a dessert that must eschew eggs or milk (all my delicious cakes and pies and other dessert items I like to make are out). And no, don't tell me there are great vegan desserts. I generally just prefer to serve fruit.

But here's what I kind of hate: that everyone else must accommodate the vegan's dietary preferences, but a vegan will never go to the trouble of accommodating anyone else's dietary preferences. Why should that be? I always feel I am catering to the most restrictive needs of one or more of my guests. I'm kind of tired of it: if I spend hours on end putting together a meal, I'd like it to be something I would like to eat, too.

If veganism is supposed to be about being humane to animals, why can't the animals include other human beings?

[justiceischeap]

28. Either don't invite vegans to dinner or ask them to bring something for themselves--problem solved.

Have any of your vegan friends refused to bring their own dishes? If so, then they aren't being accommodating to anyone else's dietary preferences otherwise, you aren't giving them the opportunity to be accommodating.

I used to be vegan myself and still eat mostly vegan, though I don't go out of my way to do so which is what makes me vegetarian but when I was vegan I'd bring my own food to places so I could eat without inconveniencing anyone.

And guess what? There are great vegan desserts out there--I know of several places that serve vegan only faire and their desserts are beyond wonderful--the issue is, you don't want to make them and that's okay, you shouldn't have to if you don't want to but don't hate on vegans if you aren't giving them the chance to accommodate your menu.

[frazzled]

38. I am a gracious host, and would never

be as crude as you suggest.

And I have eaten vegan desserts that other people "rave" about and claim are delicious. I have yet to find one that is anything more than sweet. Look, everyone's tastes are different. Have you ever eaten at the vegan restaurants called Native Foods? All my vegan and vegetarian friends think it's fabulous, delicious. I've tried three times and the food there makes me gag: even the salads suck.

Don't hate on people who think it's okay to eat some honey lavender ice cream. And can I bring my own rare porterhouse steak to your house next time you invite me?

[justiceischeap]

90. Yes, you can bring your own steak as long as

You bring something to cook it on.

And it's more crude to complain about your guests dietary habits behind their back than it is to ask them to contribute to the meal.

[KittyWampus]

44. Exactly, these days vegan baking has improved dramatically. And without eggs, dairy and as much oil

I'd say it's demonstrably healthier.

[KittyWampus]

42. I am preferably vegan and bake the most amazing breads, cakes, brownies. It isn't difficult

in the least. There are basic substitutions and some very reliable recipes available on the internet for free… that have many reviews to prove the recipes work.

And a vegan main course only requires one main ingredient- a can of chick peas.

For a main course all you have to really have to do is throw some onion, garlic, celery, carrot in a food processor and then flavor profile of choice and then add chick peas and pulse till coarsely chopped. Then you add a little tahini or cashew butter or avocado thinned with oil and vinegar or maybe some tofu or non-dairy yougurt… and you have chickpea salad. Serve over lettuce the way you would tuna or chicken salad.

It is so simple, so nutritious and so delicious. All you have to do is swap out herbs and spices (Old Bay seasoning and lemon or curry powder or mustard/relish) and additives… olives, cranberries, walnuts.

You want a link to the most amazing baked goods you've ever had that are all vegan? Let me know.

And to be honest, vegans are MORE INCLUSIVE than meat eaters. By far. At least their diet is probably more varied.

Vegans generally eat a greater variety of beans, veggies and fruits.

[tabbycat31]

60. TBH I would not eat anything above

Something that is naturally vegan, sure. I have fried rice in my fridge made with veggie stock, pineapple, and veggies. It's naturally vegan and I love it. (I've made it with chicken stock too but can't taste the difference).

But I WILL NOT eat any dairy substitutes, and if someone mislead me saying that soymilk was milk, I would be pissed at them. And what you described was a hummus like dish, which I have never liked. And tofu will not come anywhere near my plate ever.

I only eat meat about once every other week (financial reasons as I keep my grocery budget under $200/month). My diet consists of green smoothies, rice based dishes, etc. There are some foods I cook that are (or can be made) vegan and others that are not. I have dairy every day (if nothing else, I need milk in my coffee).

If I was hosting a group of people with various dietary restrictions, my go-to meal is a DIY taco bar (flour and corn tortillas). I'd have meat and black beans as the filler and then toppings as you would like. However, if the vegan in the group complained that meat, cheese, and sour cream were available to those who want it, they would not be invited back.

(I do the same with glutten free, etc. I won't cook baked goods using GF flour as a dessert, instead I would serve something that is naturally GF).

[Ninga]

45. Dear "frazzled" .... you have captured the intresting dynamic of having dinner guest who proclaim to

be vegans....which in strict actuality, they are not. They like to "proclaim" sometimes in a high-minded way, that they are not vegetarians, but vegans.

I am available for your homemade sweet potato gnocchi with butter and sage....any day to choose to invite me! Manga, manga!

[upaloopa]

50. I think you are way out there. I'm a vegetarian

not a vegan but no one has to cater to my wishes nor do they have to cater to a vegan. We are use to dealing with what ever is presented. If there are only meat dishes I just don't eat. I won't die. In 90% of the cases I just don't find anything that is vegan or vegetarian and I survive.

[riderinthestorm]

72. Agree with you. When my vegan sister in law visits for a week, its really hard

Her daughter is even more militant - won't eat anything prepared in a kitchen that has non-vegan food like dairy, seafood or meat on the premises (needless to say she has opted out of visiting us for a few years). Its taxing and tiresome by the time she leaves, especially trying to have enough diversity.

My youngest is a vegetarian so a lot of my cooking is already geared around that. Easy.

Veganism takes it to a whole other stressful level for me especially as the vegans I know also happen to be extremely concerned with locavore items, fair trade practices, global boycotts etc. Fair enough except when I'm in the middle of making something and they pick up the pineapple I'm about to use and inform me that it was harvested by exploited child labor.

There goes a key ingredient I had planned for today and tomorrow's meals.

It's not that I don't want to know. I'm happy to be informed. It just makes having them over tiring and stressful as even what I thought were decent vegan choices are pointed out to be bad.

Sigh.

[justiceischeap]

103. I will reiterate what I said above

Ask the vegans to contribute to the meal. Vegans aren't usually offended by this.

As far as not cooking in a kitchen where animals are, that is militant but I wouldn't expect a kosher person to happily prepare a meal in my kitchen either because I know my kitchen doesn't meet their dietary needs.

[hifiguy]

111. Your friend's daughter is being a tiresome, self-righteous and

sanctimonious asshole. The world does not revolve around you, missy. And it is people like her who make others "hate vegans." People like that are no better than the fundy religulous creeps.

[Retrograde]

194. I'd invite the daughter

to clear out my cupboards, move the "offending" products to a food-safe storage area, rent a small fridge (at her expense, of course) for vegan-only products, and have her thoroughly scrub and clean all the cupboards, dishes, utensils, etc. At least I'd get the kitchen cleaned . And she can wash the windows while she's at it.

The question of people who keep kosher came up in another post. I am not Jewish, my friends know this. One of them - who does keep kosher - used to either bring items he could consume to parties, or didn't partake. When I'm invited to a Seder and offer to bring something, the host suggested appropriate items that could be purchased (like the wine) so they wouldn't have to spend time in a non-kosher kitchen.

[Silent3]

229. I wonder if there's something equivalent to a vegan rabbi...

...who can perform a ritual to "cleanse" a kitchen, the same way a rabbi will "cleanse" your kitchen if you've done something naughty like serve meat on the dairy dishes.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1997-01-21/news/1997021005_1_kosher-kitchen-home-kosher-jewish-dietary

[riderinthestorm]

242. LOVE this idea. Last time she came to visit she fasted for 3 days

Sigh.

She's never returned and I'm perfectly okay with that.

My lovely and adored sister in law is hard enough.... I'm happy to work with her on food choices because I love her to pieces but its a hard week for me as a hostess. If I cooked with tofu and tempeh daily it might be just a tad easier...but even my vegetarian daughter isn't a fan of the soy based products.

[Codeine]

175. There ARE great vegan desserts.

Fabulous, decadent, rich vegan desserts -- I know because I eat them. I've had them at award-winning restaurants and in my own home cooked by my lovely, meat-eating fiancée. Cakes, pies, pastries; the whole thang.

[tabbycat31]

17. Veganism is more a religion than a diet

AT least from the vegans I know. I compare it to the fundamentalist Christians who stand on street corners handing out tracts and letting everyone they encounter know about why their religion is so great. You don't have glutten free people preaching to others about how the evils of glutten. They just accept that some people can't eat it and move on. They just mind their own business and worry about other things. Not vegans.

I'm very flexible when it comes to people's dietary choices. When I make food for people, I will use substitutes like using veggie stock in fried rice instead of chicken stock. Just let me know ahead of time. In fact I have a good vegan meal in my fridge right now. While I don't eat much meat, dairy is a part of my diet. So if you're a vegan and come over, I'll share some of that fried rice with you. I'll make you a smoothie, etc. If we're going out, I'll be flexible and we can go to a place that has more than salads for vegans. However, yelling at me about putting milk in my coffee will be met with hostility. If I want to have a cheeseburger, do not give me the death stare while I'm eating it (a vegan has done this to me before). Respect my choices and I will respect yours.

I came across this the other day and it pretty much sums up why people (in general) hate vegans.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

31. this is the exact vegan people hate...

and for the reason of this video... preaching that everyone else is wrong. she seems to believe she is the only person (or at least her small bunch of whackadoos) that does no harm on the earth. newsflash, moron : you're using the internet, wearing clothes, jewelry and your indoors. ALL of these things consume resources that take away from some other life or impact the planet.

get off your holier than thou bullshit...

sP

[kestrel91316]

88. She is right that our food choices can have a huge negative impact on the environment.

But the solution is to make sure that people know the facts and make an informed decision. Regulation of factory farming to decrease its CO2 output is also a good thing.

But the people who tell perfect strangers that they are bad people for eating or even using animal products are just jerks.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

117. correct on both points...

she is still the reason some people hate vegans... there is a load of hypocrisy in some of them...

sP

[kelly1mm]

190. Don't forget the environmental impact of her airplane trips (which we are taking up part of

her seat on)! LOL!

[justiceischeap]

35. You know, it's funny but I'm sure you could find videos from any segment of the population

and point to it as the reason why people hate vegans. In the early days of LGBT protests, the news media would show only the most outrageous members of the LGBT community giving the impression that all lesbians were "Dykes on Bikes" and all gay men were "Leather daddies" running around in assless chaps.

Yes, there are activist vegans but not all vegans are like the woman in the video... only activists are. Same as any activist that believes in any cause--many of whom most would call preachy or hateful because of their beliefs.

[tabbycat31]

43. My point is that you don't get activists for other dietary choices

The only vegans I personally know are very similar to the vegan in the video. I've been yelled at, given death stares, etc. It was to the point where I lost my childhood best friend to veganism because we couldn't do anything without her preaching to me. It hits home to me. Another friend of mine went vegetarian to accommodate a friend who was vegan, and when she became all preachy about it, he said "fuck this" and ate a bacon cheeseburger.

The difference between vegan and LGBT is that one is a choice and one is not. You do not choose to be LGBT but you choose to be vegan. You can be a vegan one day and not the next.

There are several dietary choices out there, and most people realize that their dietary choice is not for everyone. There is no organization coming out with ads on why you should go glutten free. You can eat glutten in front of a glutten free person and they won't give you a death stare or yell at you for it.

My advice to vegans--- live and let live. Do not worry about what others are eating. By being nice to people, you will be surprised at how accommodating they can be (ie choosing a restaurant that has more than 1 vegan option). And realize that most people are not and won't become vegan. And for the love of a higher power, if you want your pets to eat a vegan diet, DO NOT GET A CAT.

[KittyWampus]

46. Why would there be "activists" for meat-eating when it is ubiquitous? Even though the vast majority

of meat is raised, slaughtered and processed in horrifying conditions and environmentally deleterious conditions?

Meat eating is totally built into our society. The costs are built in. Subsidized.

Much the same way petroleum is paid for societally by citizens while corporations reap profits privately.

[tabbycat31]

64. You are starting to remind me of the vegan in the video I posted

ETA and I hope that you do realize that vegans are a MINORITY dietary choice.

Other minority dietary choices are glutten-free, low carb, etc. You don't see people protesting at a bakery because carbs are evil. If you come across such an incident, please post pics here. Most low-carb people accept that others eat carbs and live and let live.

You are proving my point that veganism is a religion.

[KittyWampus]

106. No, I'm pointing out to the inability of meat-eaters to really examine their habits and the impact

their CHOICE to eat industrial meat has on our environment and society.

As I will say again, just for emphasis, I am NOT A DOGMATIC VEGAN.

I eat meat if it's served to me.

But absolutely will point out the strict adherence even liberals have to our industrial meat production.

Green activists, Peace activists… they will not be called "proselytizers" by many liberals. Although they will be trashed by rightwingers.

But shine a light on the hideous impact of industrial meat production and expect liberals to actually examine and change their behavior? No dice.

[tabbycat31]

124. "examine and change behavior"

If a Bible thumper came to your door and pointed out your sins, and advised you to examine and change your behavior, that would be called proselytizing. How is a vegan saying this any different?

And I know this is most likely an unpopular opinion on a liberal forum, but many activists hurt their cause more than they help it (says someone who is a professional political consultant). In fact to many people, activists reinforce stereotypes. Many centrist voters (who both parties court and will push either over the top) see the activists as whack jobs and want nothing to do with them. This goes for the left and the right. NRA activists are not helping their cause by carrying an AR-15 in Target and Occupy did not help their cause by pitching a tent in the park. Most people view groups like Code Pink and Operation Rescue as extremist groups.

I've been called names by the other side of the aisle and it does not help their cause at all. I don't consider myself a baby killer because I support a Democratic candidate. I shouldn't have to 'go back to Mexico' because I supported health care reform.

And FTR I eat meat about once every other week so I'm not exactly the carnivore you want to go after (in fact I can't stand bacon). I could give up meat if I wanted to but I instead eat it rarely as a treat or to satisfy a craving. I'd be surprised if I ate 10 lbs of meat a year. Dairy I could not and will not give up. Also there is such a thing as sustainable meat production. I know people who do things like buying 1/2 a cow from a local farmer and that is their beef for the year. I think this is very different than industrial meat production.

[Chathamization]

126. There’s been plenty of pushback against shark fin soup. I imagine if dog was more popular in the US

you would get more pushback to that as well (I’ve heard people who argue for eating meat argue against eating dog). You get attacks on wearing fur.

[tabbycat31]

131. Never heard of shark fin soup

Different cultures eat different meats, so I chalk that up to cultural difference. In some parts of the world dogs and cats are not considered pets like they are here. I ate moose earlier this year when I was in Maine and that's unheard of in New Jersey. When I was on the road a few years ago, I had to ask what mutton was. My friend ate chimp when he was in the Peace Corps. In some parts of the world, horsemeat is acceptable, and in others it is not.

As for the attacks on wearing fur, most of them are from the same group (PETA) that produces a lot of vegan activists so I would lump them in the same category.

But have you ever heard of glutten-free activists? Kosher activists? Low-carb activists? When was the last time you saw people protesting a bakery because they serve carbs?

[Chathamization]

133. Antagonism to fur is far more wide spread than just PETA. It used to not be uncommon to have people

give you nasty comments or glare at you if you wore it (not sure if that’s changed much). Shark fin soup has a fairly large campaign dedicated to getting rid of it. Japanese whaling has been criticized heavily. I remember a lot of people criticizing the killing of that giraffe in a Denmark zoo. Animal experiments tend to be heavily criticized.

Further out there are things like dogfighting or eating live monkey brains, which many people find horrifying but some people have no problem with.

You’re correct that dietary habits don’t tend to elicit this kind of attention, but issues involving humanity’s relationship with animals do. It’s not uncommon for there to be a fuzzy line with these things and for people to have very, very strong opinions about them and get pissed off by people who have different opinions.

[eridani]

221. There is a lot of very high quality fake fur out there

And much cheaper than fur from animals.

[Chathamization]

227. And some people prefer real fur, just as some people prefer meat N/T

[Sheldon Cooper]

142. But gluten-free and low-carb are not moral choices.

No one is saying that gluten and carbs are raised in hideous factory farms, suffering throughout their short miserable lives. There's no reason to be an activist for those issues because there are simply no 'issues' associated with them.

[tabbycat31]

143. being Kosher is a moral choice

I don't see Kosher activists protesting a place serving cheeseburgers.

[Sheldon Cooper]

144. I think kosher is more religious than moral, meaning that

I think Jews tend to concern themselves more with their own choices, as a symbol of their devotion to their faith. I don't think they particularly care what non-believers are eating.

[tabbycat31]

148. And vegans should not care what non vegans are eating

That is the bottom line. Not their body, not their business. I see vegan activists in the same way I see pro-life activists.

Caring about what other people are eating is hurting their cause, not helping it. I eat a mostly vegetarian diet (I do eat dairy though). I won't go completely vegetarian partly because the vegetarian/vegan activists turn me off. My diet is 95% vegetarian and the 5% includes things like holiday dinners (ie turkey at Thanksgiving).

[Sheldon Cooper]

150. I agree.

[Luminous Animal]

151. My "cause" is primarily environmental. Telling people not to care about what other people are eating

is akin to telling anti-lead activists and scientist not to care what kind of gas or paint other people were using. The impact of CAFOs is devastating to air, land, and water.

From your post, I understand that YOU, personally, contribute very little to the problem but this issue isn't about YOU, personally.

Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars, UN report warns
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?newsID=20772

29 November 2006 – Cattle-rearing generates more global warming greenhouse gases, as measured in CO2 equivalent, than transportation, and smarter production methods, including improved animal diets to reduce enteric fermentation and consequent methane emissions, are urgently needed, according to a new United Nations report released today.

“Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today’s most serious environmental problems,” senior UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) official Henning Steinfeld said. “Urgent action is required to remedy the situation.”

Cattle-rearing is also a major source of land and water degradation, according to the FAO report, Livestock’s Long Shadow–Environmental Issues and Options, of which Mr. Steinfeld is the senior author.

“The environmental costs per unit of livestock production must be cut by one half, just to avoid the level of damage worsening beyond its present level,” it warns.

When emissions from land use and land use change are included, the livestock sector accounts for 9 per cent of CO2 deriving from human-related activities, but produces a much larger share of even more harmful greenhouse gases. It generates 65 per cent of human-related nitrous oxide, which has 296 times the Global Warming Potential (GWP) of CO2. Most of this comes from manure.

And it accounts for respectively 37 per cent of all human-induced methane (23 times as warming as CO2), which is largely produced by the digestive system of ruminants, and 64 per cent of ammonia, which contributes significantly to acid rain.

With increased prosperity, people are consuming more meat and dairy products every year, the report notes. Global meat production is projected to more than double from 229 million tonnes in 1999/2001 to 465 million tonnes in 2050, while milk output is set to climb from 580 to 1043 million tonnes.

The global livestock sector is growing faster than any other agricultural sub-sector. It provides livelihoods to about 1.3 billion people and contributes about 40 per cent to global agricultural output. For many poor farmers in developing countries livestock are also a source of renewable energy for draft and an essential source of organic fertilizer for their crops.

Livestock now use 30 per cent of the earth’s entire land surface, mostly permanent pasture but also including 33 per cent of the global arable land used to producing feed for livestock, the report notes. As forests are cleared to create new pastures, it is a major driver of deforestation, especially in Latin America where, for example, some 70 per cent of former forests in the Amazon have been turned over to grazing.

At the same time herds cause wide-scale land degradation, with about 20 per cent of pastures considered degraded through overgrazing, compaction and erosion. This figure is even higher in the drylands where inappropriate policies and inadequate livestock management contribute to advancing desertification.

The livestock business is among the most damaging sectors to the earth’s increasingly scarce water resources, contributing among other things to water pollution from animal wastes, antibiotics and hormones, chemicals from tanneries, fertilizers and the pesticides used to spray feed crops.

Beyond improving animal diets, proposed remedies to the multiple problems include soil conservation methods together with controlled livestock exclusion from sensitive areas; setting up biogas plant initiatives to recycle manure; improving efficiency of irrigation systems; and introducing full-cost pricing for water together with taxes to discourage large-scale livestock concentration close to cities.

[tabbycat31]

153. Evangelical veganism cost me my childhood best friend

So I do tend to take things like this personally. When you lose someone who you were the closest to growing up, it hurts. But I had a difficult choice to make about whether I could still put up with someone telling me how evil I was because I eat meat.

I used to work for an environmental group and I probably have a lower carbon footprint than a lot of this forum does. So I understand environmental impact. And I don't disagree with you about the livestock business. If everyone ate meatless one day a week it would have a huge impact. Hell even the Catholic Church could reduce meat consumption by preaching that Catholics should abstain from meat every Friday instead of just during Lent. And a better thing to do is buy a freezer and do things like buy 1/2 a cow or 1/2 a pig from a local farmer. Some people raise chickens for meat. I have no issue with farming as my great grandparents did it. It used to be that animal manure was used as fertilizer for crops. Now we have crops using industrial fertilizer and factory farms having problems with manure disposal. I see a simple solution there but Corporate America does not.

This is what I DO have an issue with is the delivery and proselytizing.

A vegan telling a carnivore that meat is murder (and stands behind the moral beliefs behind it) is exactly the same thing as a pro-life activist telling someone abortion is murder. Both have sincerely-held beliefs and both are protecting life (animal or fetus). But politically, chances are they're polar opposites. Both have compared their cause to the Holocaust and slavery. I have even found graphic images put out by PETA and pro-life groups showing the comparison.

If either the pro-life or vegan movement wanted to advance their cause, they would not choose such shocking comparison and treat nonbelievers kindly.

[Luminous Animal]

155. That is quite a leap from the original post to which I responded.

I know quite a few vegans and vegetarians and we happily hang out with our meat eating friends with nary a peep about our "cause". I'm not a member of PETA because, as I have stated, my views and habits are environmentally based and driven by the revulsion of animal cruelty as practiced by CAFOs.

The vegan and vegetarian movement is quite a bit more than PETA, etc. They just happen to get more attention because of their outrageous antics. And those who are working on solid ground are doing quite well with advancing their cause despite meat-eaters attempts to denigrate and demean the movement by trying to rub our noses in PETA's idiocy.

As for images, I do agree that the Holocaust comparisons go too far but I support the airing of pictures and videos exposing the cruelty practiced on most ranches, animal farms, and slaughterhouses. There is a reason why the meat industry has pressured state houses to make it a crime to surreptitiously get into a farming operation to record video of animal abuse. How we routinely treat the animals we eat is revolting. Far more disgusting than PETA pictures.

[Retrograde]

198. The problem with shark fin soup

is that often only the fin is used: it's cut off the living shark, which is then tossed back into the water. To die. If the people doing the catching used the whole shark - or most of it - it wouldn't be any worse than other meats. It's the callous waste that got it banned in some places.

[fishwax]

169. i'm sure there are more activists for meat than for veganism

Meat producers have powerful and we'll financed lobbying networks, and they are very much interested in getting more meat in the average American diet.

[Luminous Animal]

172. Truly and bribing states to criminalize animal rights activists from secretly recording their

filthy and cruel business practices.

[backwoodsbob]

158. I had a friend couple in Detroit I met bowling

who were vegans.We liked them so we tried to accomodate them when they came over.

We ended up with two of their friend vegan couples also friending us.
we finally gave up and told them all not to come back or call us.It wasn't worth the preaching or the inspections of our kitchen every time they came over.
I avoid Vegans like Ebola

[vankuria]

53. Couldn't listen to the whole video

too annoying. She's implying that if someone is a vegan they will be free from disease and that's bullshit. I've known folks with the healthiest diets but still managed to get cancer, heart disease, etc., some of it is genetics.

Animal based foods do have nutritional value for instance red meat has protein and iron in it and for young girls iron is important to their diet. And woman of all ages need calcium, I've read of young women on vegan diets experiencing signs of osteoporosis as early as their 40's. As someone with a history of osteoporosis in their family, I try to eat as much calcium rich foods as I can, along with vitamin, only found in fish, as this helps to absorb calcium. If this offends vegans, I can't help it, I have to eat what is beneficial to me.

[Marrah_G]

165. I had to shut off the video

Can't stand people like that.

[customerserviceguy]

182. You nailed it

There's that whole "holier than thou" thing that a lot of the vocal vegans have, and it gets us omnivores worried that if they actually converted enough people, that we'd someday be considered criminals for enjoying a bacon cheeseburger.

Threaten other people's rights, even indirectly, and don't be too surprised when they react badly to you.

[DanTex]

18. As a meat-eater, I think there's some truth to this.

I think there are definitely some moral questions involved in raising and killing animals for food, particularly when it is not necessary for subsistence, but just a matter of taste or convenience. I am also aware of the conditions in factory farms. But I prefer not to think about them when I'm eating. I eat meat because I like it. Maybe that is a moral shortcoming of mine.

I don't hate vegans at all. I actually admire them -- whether they do it for moral reasons, or sustainability, or health, or anything else. I'm just not one of them. But I can definitely see the "defense mechanism" argument in that vegans force meat-eaters like me to confront some uncomfortable questions.

Having said that, the people who actually hate vegans, it seems, are right-wingers who are hostile to any kind of environmental concern.

[customerserviceguy]

186. I don't 'admire' them

any more than I admire anyone who acts on a philosophical/religious belief that has no basis in reason. Do I admire Jews and Muslims because they don't eat pork? No, I observe that while such religious laws might have made sense in a time when we didn't know how to cook things fully, they certainly don't make sense in the modern era. Many of my Jewish friends (sorry, I guess I have not been around enough to have any Muslim acquaintances) articulate the same view.

I really don't give a crap if my meat was factory-farmed, free range or pampered to death, I will eat it with gusto. As for environmental concerns, I find them overblown. The "amount of water" needed to raise a pound of beef usually comes from the sky, and if not used in that way, would simply become ground water. I prefer a pound of ground beef.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

201. Yeah, admiration is EXACTLY what I was feeling the other night at a company dinner

As a vegan couple ate steamed veggies on rice cooked in artificial chicken stock. They actually made the chef come out and show them the empty package for the artificial chicken seasoning.

[Orrex]

19. Funny how every group is "one of the last remaining minorities that can be made fun of"

Vegans, non-sports fans, Christians, atheists, rural people, overweight people, low income people, Furries, people with bad teeth, lefties, geeks, nerds, the list goes on. I've seen all of them claim the title of "the last acceptable victims of discrimination." Funny how that works.

There’s this silly stereotype of the hostile, preachy vegan. I have never met one in my life. Only 2% of people in the USA claim to be vegan. Vegans are a minority, and people hate vegans. This leads many, myself included, to try to keep it mum mum as much as possible. The V word stirs up a lot of emotion in people.

Hmm. In my life I've known about four dozen vegans pretty well, about half of whom have been of the "preachy" variety.

By "preachy," I mean that they have a habit of starting conversations specifically so that they can proclaim their veganism and condemn its non-embrace by others. Or sitting at the table with non-vegans and expressing clear and explicit disgust at others' meal choices. Or demanding that our group leave a certain venue because the scent of cooking meat is discernable in the air. Or condemning some passerby for wearing a leather jacket, etc. I've experienced all of these.

I would describe as "preachy" any analgous behavior by a religious person or by a sports fan, so it seems fair to use the same word in this context. The fact that they feel strongly about their dietary choices or about animal rights doesn't make it preachy; it's because they demand that others either adopt their behaviors or else suppress their own behaviors in favor of the preacher's.

YMMV, of course.

[merrily]

20. Some of my Arab friends would welcome "merely" being made fun of.

[Orrex]

25. I don't doubt it--that's kind of my point

Generally, the group that declares itself to be the last "fair target of discrimination" doesn't face anything like the discrimination practiced against truly oppressed or targeted groups.

[merrily]

29. Yes, and I gave an example of your point.

[Orrex]

61. Okay then.

[reflection]

34. Well said.

I think a lot of people love to imagine an "us against the world" construct. Vegans are no exception. I've got a couple of vegan friends, and more than a few acquaintances. Can't remember anyone ever marginalizing or ostracizing them. The most negativity I've seen out of others is the rare occasion where we have to put a little more thought into where we will meet for dinner or some such, because we want make sure there will be something that the vegans among us will enjoy.

[FLPanhandle]

22. Only the ones trying to convert others to their morality.

Same with anti-abortionists. Many people wouldn't have an abortion themselves, but only a few are out picketing and trying to force their viewpoints on others.

They are the ones who hold up pictures and protesting (same as a sub set of vegans).

Live your life with your moral choices; the minute you try to force your morals on me, then I'll get into it with you.

[merrily]

40. Conversion is not the only issue. And it's about all kinds of special dietary requirements, not only

veganism.

For example, when work got busy somewhere I used to work, the same group of us would work late and head out for a dinner break a few times a week. One of the people ate kosher and that meant he got to choose where the entire group ate every time. Not once did he say, "You all pick a place this time. I can always order a salad and an omelette." To top it off, not a single one of the places he chose was kosher, not even "clean" (meaning, no pork or shellfish on the menu). I began to suspect it was more about selfish than shellfish.

[upaloopa]

56. You have a brain and free will like rest of us

You don't have to do what the herd does.

[merrily]

63. Yes, the perfect solution to his selfishness was for me to eat dinner alone.

[upaloopa]

68. You seem to be the selfish one to me

You expect people to run their lives to suit you.
Making diet and lifestyle choices for yourself is not being selfish.

[merrily]

69. No, he expected several people to run their lives to suit his special requirement, with no

flexibility ever on his part. And he was not making choices for himself, but for the whole group.

That you don't see any of that is interesting.

First, I should have used my brain and eaten alone. Now, I'm selfish because I accommodated his dietary need every time without ever complaining, but had the nerve to post about it on DU years later because it seemed relevant to a thread. Maybe you are just looking for something to pick at me for?

[FLPanhandle]

65. I hate selfish people but not all vegans are selfish.

I'd rather eat by myself than with someone like that regardless of their diet choices.

[merrily]

67. He wasn't a vegan, just an example of a special dietary requirement,

allegedly, where the "reguiror" was not considerate or flexible, but not seeking to convert anyone, either.

I'd rather eat by myself than with someone like that regardless of their diet choices.

Ordinarily, I might agree. But this was a work situation, he was senior to me, being a team player matters in a workplace, esp. when you are junior-and the only female, etc. A lot of considerations applied that it didn't seem to make sense for me to go into on this thread.

[Marr]

86. Wow, sounds like assholey behavior.

Why didn't you just call him out on it? It doesn't have to be done rudely, but wouldn't it be easy to just say, 'hey, why are you choosing every time if we're not even going to kosher places?'.

[Marr]

92. Oops-- mispost.

[merrily]

98. I explained a little bit about why in Reply 67.

[Marr]

104. Ah. Yeah, that's a messy situation.

Well, I certainly think he was behaving like an asshole.

I'm not a vegan myself, personally, but I am pretty strict about what I eat, from a health perspective. I find that I can eat just about anywhere my friends eat, if I'm willing to order off the menu, with things like vegetables, side of fruit... along with the ubiquitous grilled chicken, you can always make do. Or just about always.

[merrily]

115. I suspect he just liked certain places more than the ones others in the group were suggesting.

It wasn't that important. I just meant it as an example of how someone can make a dietary requirement or preference inconvenient for others. I didn't mean to make a big deal out of it. I certainly didn't at the time.

[Oktober]

233. "If you are vegan, you probably avoid mentioning your dietary habits at all costs. "

BWA HA HAHA

[randome]

23. Hate is for losers.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[snooper2]

24. nobody really cares about vegans, I guess this person is trying to make up a "they hate us" meme

Thereby giving themselves a glimmer of importance LOL


If a group or people with shared interests are important enough they will always have haters.

[The2ndWheel]

26. People just don't like being told that

what they do, in the normal course of their own life, is bad or wrong. Nobody, anywhere, enjoys being morally judged, in either thought or action.

Good and bad, right and wrong, these are all human concepts that don't objectively exist, and they're different for different people.

[tridim]

27. I don't hate anybody...

It is every vegan's right to deprive his or her body of vital nutrients.

Fortunately most figure this out after a few years and adjust accordingly.

[justiceischeap]

36. As a mostly vegan vegetarian

I'm not depriving my body of any vital nutrients. If you eat vegan or vegetarian, just paying attention to what you eat and being knowledgeable about what your body needs will give you a nutritious diet that includes all the things one needs.

This meme that vegan's are missing vital nutrients is flat out false. My last physical put me in really good physical shape even though I've smoked since I was 12.

[tridim]

41. Like I said, it's your right to believe/do whatever you want.

Good luck.

[Sheldon Cooper]

30. I view militant vegans in the same way that I view religious fanatics and those who have given up

their televisions. They can't wait to let you know why they are superior and you are absolutely wrong, cruel, and/or mindless. And I loathe PETA not only for their silly ads, but also for their exploitation of women in order to preach against exploiting animals. Hypocrites.

[KittyWampus]

33. How do you view militant or ignorant meat eaters? The ones who don't give a crap what the pig shit

vats do to our environment. People who know about the disgusting practices of chicken farms but still eat that chicken anyway.

The people who know how bad it is to feed cows corn, how bad it is to give them antibiotics but eat it anyway?

[Sheldon Cooper]

37. Sigh. So predictable.

To answer your question, I don't view them at all. So, let the flames begin!

[KittyWampus]

52. Right, it's better to just ignore the damage and costs meat production has on our environment-

or, read an article about the issues, wish things were done differently and then forget about it.

[Sheldon Cooper]

58. Heh. Here, let me help:

[freshwest]

217. Yes! Winter's coming!

Three hours to warm the place up!

[KittyWampus]

32. Oh yeah! Saying you are vegan is taken as an affront or insult to those who eat meat.

It is an extremely common reaction so I don't mention it.

And I'm not a "dogmatic" vegan. I grew up eating meat and if I go to a party and there's meat being served, I eat it.

[KurtNYC]

39. I posted my new recipe for a savory Roasted Butternut Squash Soup with Bacon recently

The first 2 responses I got were from veg/vegans telling me that I shouldn't use bacon in the soup. If they had posted a vegan recipe I would never think of telling them that it would be better with bacon or cream or anything like that, but they seem evangelistic about what is supposedly their personal choice.

Food is love. Deeply ingrained in the emotional and spiritual fabric of mammals is the connection between suckling at the breast their mothers and every meal of their life that follows. When we see the downtrodden, the homeless, our first thought is often to feed them, not because they said they were hungry (the actually said "homeless&quot but because we know in our hearts that food will give them a sense of the love and concern we have for them.

Food should not be something that divides people: Food is love.

[KittyWampus]

47. Food is the end result of industrial practices. So no, it isn't just love. Although intention

is very significant.

I didn't see your post with the recipe and can't speak to the comments made by other vegans.

But here's the thing, the ingredients that go into our food are raised mostly by industries that reap profits privately while spreading the costs publicly.

And meat-eaters may occasionally see an article about what goes on in chicken production or about vats of pig shit spilling into water supplies and cluck their tongues but almost none of them make a sustained effort at changing the food production system.

[KurtNYC]

75. I have to ask, What makes you think you know so much about what other people do ?

almost none of them make a sustained effort at changing the food production system

I'm an organic vegetable farmer working with 9 others on 300 acres. Grew that squash myself (and the pea shoots). I grow organic, non-GMO soybeans that go into miso, tamari, tempeh and tofu. Here is what our chickens enjoy:

I think creating better options for more people, regardless of their dietary restrictions (whether medically-based or self-imposed), and personally caring for the animals that supplement my diet with eggs, is the best I can do. On the other hand, nagging the fun out of food is counter productive, and as you pointed out, clucking our tongues at meat-eaters is no substitute for being the change we wish to see in this world.

[freshwest]

219. OMG, I love your life! I haven't had chickens for years. Kept them mostly to keep down insects. They

are very entertaining and have such different personalities. I didn't eat any of them, but some people do eat roosters. They were more like pets. I miss that. Thanks for sharing a slice of heaven.

[KurtNYC]

228. There is a Covington in our mixed flock that I am especially fond of

She will follow me around when I am working in the chicken's area, fearless and friendly. My farming journey started 4 years ago when I got my dogs from a local organic farmer. He was offered a 2 acre spot that he couldn't use so I took it. Then I connected with a group who were in process to lease the 300 acre spot and we did. We have far more food than customers since we got off to a late start and this is our first year growing at this scale. The chickens get much of the extra since the compost pile is in their area. They are a bit plump but very happy. This is my first experience with laying hens and I have learned a lot from them.

I love working the land and caring for animals but farming is a tough way to make money. I'm nowhere close to quitting my "day job" but I like the balance that farming has brought to my life (and I am cooking the best meals of my life). Hope to have backyard chickens some day.

[freshwest]

240. How do you heat their roost in the winter? I used hay. The cold weather greenhouse/coop

combinations are what I'd always wanted to try if I lived in a persistently cold winter region.

They employ passive solar heat sinks (water barrels) on the inside of the greenhouse and the chicken coop is on one side to maintain humidity, provide CO2 for the plants and vice versa for the O2 and some heat. With a lot of insulation with hay bales on the outside.

My flock didn't have a problem with the cold, as it was a very hot climate. Thus more bugs to eat but I never had such desirable land as your video shows there, except when I lived in a city.

My time in the country was in an arid climate with a lot of predators, such as snakes, coyotes, etc. So it was necessary to take precautions from the snakes and train the dogs to run off four legged predators.

I had to keep the cattle out of their section, as they tend to try to crush the chickens underfoot. I was leasing some of my land to ranchers but over all the forage was very poor so I bought seed and grit from the feed store for them.

They were exceedingly fond of the dogs' kibble, though. They were great in the vegetable patch. I've never used pesticide or commercial fertlizer, only used a Bt mixed with oatmeal during a very bad infestation of very large crickets that were eating everything to the ground and stripping the bark off the trees.

None of the people there used poison of any kind so we had a lot of butterflies and beneficial insects. Your opportunity to lease that land is remarkable.

[KurtNYC]

241. this will be the first winter on this farm so I'm not exactly sure what the plan is

but those green panels on the chicken tractor slide up and we have two very large quanset tunnels and a heated workshop right next to them. The farm is on a plane about one mile from the Hudson River. It gets cold and once you get away from the trees it can be very windy so we will likely be using the tunnel with some bales and a heat source.

Predator wise we have some hawks that sit right up in trees around the chickens but we haven't lost any to hawks. I think they are eating field mice. There are 3 roosters in the flock and they crank it up at any sign of trouble (including me). No snakes thankfully. There was a study of chicken vocalizations that found that they have different calls for a ground predator versus aerial ones. I tell farm visitors that chickens are the closing living relative of the T-Rex dinosaur and I don't think they believe me -- there is one noise they make which academics call the "raptor noise."

Some people have clicker trained chickens and I saw a class offered for dog trainers to practice with chickens because chickens are harder, you have to click right on the behavior or it doesn't work but I have seen videos of chickens trained to do so fairly complicated tasks. Chickens are a more intelligent and sentient creature than CW gives them credit for.

Farming has made a huge improvement in my life, my diet and my health and I would encourage anyone to give it a try. Even with a garden plot or containers. Peace.

[kestrel91316]

109. MUCH food is "the end result of industrial practices". Not ALL food. And for the most part, vegans

eat industrially-produced food, too. So they need to stop looking down their noses at others.

I would prefer that people produce as much of their own food as possible, whether plant or animal or both. And what they can't produce should be as local and small-scale and humane and organic as possible.

I don't give a rat's patootie if people wear leather shoes, either.

[HockeyMom]

102. I love that soup

but could take or leave bacon. I'm not a big fan of it. My daughter cannot have dairy so I used soy cream when I made it for her and her husband. Honesty, I could not tell the difference between cows or soy cream. I used toasted pecans instead of the bacon. My SIL's doctor said cut down on the bacon, so I used nuts instead.

[KurtNYC]

116. I don't eat bacon very often, love the taste but bacon is

proven carcinogen (due mostly to the nitrates and smoke). I like the crunch factor on this soup because without it it can lean toward a baby food-like consistency.

My soup is based loosely on Tom Valenti's and he uses pancetta. Mostly I wanted to do a soup that wasn't sweet on sweet so the roasting, and a little smoke from the bacon was appealing here. I enjoy the challenge and some of the results of doing vegan versions of savory soups. Valenti has another soup I absolutely love which is a split pea with pancetta and chicken stock that gets topped with garlic croutons and one drizzle of olive oil. I made that one with veg stock and roasted carrots in place of the pancetta and it is was equally good but in slightly different direction. A little lighter and cleaner in taste than the pancetta version.

I want to try grinding the toasted squash seeds down to a butter and stirring that in to the soup to get more of the nutty flavor and extend the essence of butternut squash. I like your idea for the toasted pecans because that would help me extend and enhance the natural nuttiness of the squash. Thanks for the idea!

[Codeine]

177. Actually, posting a vegan recipe will invariably

result in someone saying "That would be better with bacon on it! Hurr hurr hurr."

[Inkfreak]

223. To be fair, that's just science. (nt)

[dilby]

48. I work with quite a few vegans and vegetarians.

I can say all the vegans I work with are not the proselytizing kind and are very accepting to the diets of other people. I completely understand their reasoning on why they choose their diets and I respect it. When I throw a monthly dinner at my home for my coworkers I always take into consideration everyone's dietary needs. When I have vegans or vegetarians in attendance I try to make sure all the side dishes are vegan or at least have a vegan and non vegan version of a side dish. For the main dish I usually make pulled pork and some kind of grilled or smoked tempeh.

I have kind of a funky diet as well, I eat a lot of organ meat along with cuts that are not the choicest. This is because I respect the animal and hate to think that it died simply so I could enjoy the best parts while the rest of it was left to rot. I never try to convert anyone to this diet but my vegan friends respect it because they see the logic.

[Xyzse]

49. Nah, more meat for me.

[Zorra]

51. I'm a vegetarian. We also get our share of "What is the word for bad hunter in Apache?"

"VEGETARIAN! Haw Haw Haw!"


Duh. Every person who ever told that stupid joke needs to go hide in a closet and whip themselves with a wire clothes hanger until they repent.

[LanternWaste]

59. Reminds me of the joke...

Reminds me of the joke...

"A vegan and a non-vegan walk into a bar, have a few drinks and enjoy each other's company because neither one is a pretentious asshole."

[Eleanors38]

74. HA! Good one.

[tritsofme]

70. How incredibly silly, having a vegan diet does not make one a minority.

I stopped reading there.

[SheilaT]

71. My experience with vegans is that too many

of them are very quick to point out how the rest of us are wrong. Not all of them, but a lot. And far more than 2% of the people I know are self-proclaimed vegans.

The way so many of them go on and on about how all the substitute meat they eat is delicious, or how the non-dairy version of sour cream or yogurt is so tasty, reminds me of most dieticians I've known. The dieticians will, with an absolutely straight face, tell you that no-fat yogurt is just as good as full fat sour cream. These are people who don't have very many working taste buds.

Some of them are quite nice. I figured out that an acquaintance of mine is vegetarian, possibly vegan, when I was at her house and for lunch she made up some veggie burgers. No apologies, excuses, or explanations, that was just what she fixed.

And this will probably get a lot of hostility, but I've also noticed that a surprising number of the vegans and vegetarians have lots of health problems.

We really did evolve as omnivores, and our bodies have not changed substantially since then. We do NOT have the long digestive tract that a pure vegetarian species needs. And there are lots of sub-groups of humans who've adapted to different sorts of diets over the years, centuries, millennia.

I'm glad that you've never met a hostile or preachy vegan, because I have. Maybe the next one I meet I should send over to talk to you.

[Retrograde]

200. Some veggie burgers are better than some meat burgers

and vice versa. It's all a matter of starting with good ingredients and treating them with care. Given the choice between a home-made bean-based veggie burger and a dry tasteless MacDonald's offing I'll go with the former; given the choice between a frozen commercial veggie patty and a home-made, hand-ground, cooked to order hamburger I'll go with the latter.

My credo (taken from Robert Farrar Capon, whose Food for Thought should be required reading for cooks) is "Vegetables are good, vegetarianism is bad".

[Throd]

73. Similar to atheists, a tiny but vocal minority poison the public perception.

[Adrahil]

76. I don;t have a problem with Vegans, but some have a problem with me...

I like meat. I will continue to eat it.

I like leather. I will continue to use it.

I do not enjoy self-righteous people lecturing me about either.

However, I know many Vegans who are NOT self-righteous. And when we invite them to a meal, we always accommodate their dietary wishes. That is our obligation as hosts. I respect their personal choices.

[Paladin]

77. It's not what they eat, it's the self-righteousness that so often accompanies it.

And I'm not singling out vegans, here. People who choose to do without TV viewing are generally insufferable about it, as well.

[kestrel91316]

113. I haven't had a working TV in years and most people I know personally are unaware of that fact.

And here on DU I have only rarely mentioned it.

Your stereotype is flawed.

[Inkfreak]

224. I'll take a dozen vegans over this guy..

"We don't own a tv, there's nothing but trash on it anyways."

Insufferable.

[Paladin]

231. Agreed. (nt)

[DeadEyeDyck]

78. I have been a vegetarian since 1996. I have found that people go out of there way to accommodate me

I have gone to Steak houses that made me a meal, not on the menu. Many friends avoided eating meat in front of me, believing it would offend me (it doesn't).
My only deviation from vegan is dairy.
I have encountered some jokes but can't think of one instance where I have been persecuted. Of course, I don't act or believe that my eating habits oblige anyone to change or make any special provisions for me.

[kestrel91316]

80. I eat mostly vegan meals, but I am not an "ethical vegan", so I don't preach it like religion and

lord it over people. I've been lit into by "ethical vegans" for not being vegan enough to suit them. I've been told by omnivores that my protein intake isn't adequate and I have to "be careful". I get it from both sides.

I do occasionally consume meat, dairy, fish. So sue me.

[daleanime]

87. Amen....

egg whites, butter and once in a great while chicken/turkey separate me from pure.

Although I don't get any grief from the vegan side, maybe I don't know enough of them, I do get it from the meat side.

[daleanime]

82. I don't know about hate, but I have seem interesting reactions.....

because of heart problems my diets been pretty demanding. Everything I eat gets weight, measured and recorded. I track my intake of sodium, fats, protein, etc....


While I was shopping with Mom last week, I told her that the only part of my diet that worried me was getting enough protein. I get plenty for an average diet, but since I'm losing weight I need more. Just hearing this comment was incentive enough to make a lady passing us say, "just eat some meat. Eat meat!"


The weird part? This was in a heath food store, Greenstar, Ithaca, NY, great store-stop in and visit

[HockeyMom]

83. Breastmilk is an animal product

is a bit over the top, and know most Vegan Moms don't think like that. Nature intended mammal mothers to feed their babies with their own milk. Ok, I understand that many woman don't want or cannot nurse. As long as FORMULA (Soy based Formula for Vegan Moms) is substituted, that is fine and babies can thrive on that too. Their older kids can be Vegans. There have been instances where a few Vegan mothers have tried to feed infants what they themselves eat. That is very unhealthy and dangerous.

I don't hate Vegans.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

85. I don't worry much about what other people choose to eat.

But I do wonder sometimes how the more (what's the word I'm looking for -- intense?) vegans can justify keeping a pet cat, since cats are obligate carnivores and therefore have to eat meat to survive. If you try to feed a cat a vegan diet it will basically starve (and that would be a clear case of animal cruelty, which most vegans claim they are trying to avoid). Dogs can get by on a vegetarian diet although they are classified as carnivores, but they would also prefer some meat in their diet. If you are a vegan are you limited to keeping herbivorous pets like rabbits or gerbils so as to avoid any participation in the furtherance of the meat industry?

[hifiguy]

89. What I don't get is the avoidance of things like cheese and eggs.

it makes zero sense to me. The chickens are gonna lay the eggs anyway and the cows are going to give the milk. It's not hard to find free range eggs and artisanal cheeses that do not come from factory farms. I cannot imagine life without cheese.

And plastic shoes just don't cut it. There's a reason our distant ancestors started using leather for shoes when they lived in caves. It's the best material for the job.

I unapologetically enjoy meat, fowl and fish but will happily tie into good vegetarian food.

IMO - and it's strictly my opinion, there's a certain smugness to vegans that I don't get from vegetarians.

[MadrasT]

149. About cheese...

...I asked the same thing of a non-cheese-eating vegetarian friend, and he said it was because the rennet used to make cheese comes from slaughtered animals' stomachs.

I do personally try to mostly eat animal products that come from animals that are treated properly. It makes me feel very sad to think of animals suffering. So I get my animal products from local farms, with free range chickens, etc., and I avoid most beef and pork but not 100%.

[Man from Pickens]

95. I'm annoyed by vegans

I'm one of the best chefs in town but whenever my friend's mother is in the mix I need to make special dishes just for her. A little bit of chicken every now and again won't kill ya!

[yewberry]

189. Minor point here

"A little bit of chicken every now and again won't kill ya!"

Just FYI, if she's been at it for a while, she'll know and she'll know pretty quick. "Just a little chicken stock" or that bacon fat to fry with means pain, sweats, and, um, "two exits, no waiting" within half an hour for me.

Sorry to add the yuck factor...

[Marr]

96. Who hates them? They're incredibly common now.

I remember when vegetarians seemed rare, and vegans were like... the Olympians of vegetarians. Now I think I know more self-described vegans than vegetarians... though most seem to have their own personal definition of what is and is not allowed, and half of them are actually pretty overweight, too... weird.

[matt819]

100. It's funny that you post this

I wrote a post earlier about buy books at my local indie bookstore. Most of the responses were reasonable, though one or two seem to go off on a bit of a rant. I love a rant as much as the next guy. For example, I think I'd love to have a beer with The Rude Pundit. But rants are not necessary on everything.

Veganism is one of those things that is not rant-worthy, whether you're the vegan or the omnivore. Okay, vegans. It's great that you're vegans. Okay, omnivores, have at it.

See, that was easy. No need for rant or rage. It's a fucking food preference, for crying out loud. If you believe in heaven or hell, being a vegan or an omnivore is not going to be a deciding factor in where you end up. So ease up.

Or I'm just getting old and don't have time for this sort of shit anymore.

[G_j]

108. For me the issue is really factory farming.

It's terrible for the environment, besides being unsafe and cruel.

[KittyWampus]

112. This is my point in posting throughout this thread. Meat eaters do not want to examine their habits

or their choices.

They may read an article here or there about factory farming and think "oh well, too bad" and then forget about it.

And I've seen DU'ers label those who seek out local/humanely raised meat/eggs/dairy as elitists.

[G_j]

122. frankly

factory farming falls in with other troublesome practices that effect the environment and climate. Just like fossil fuel use, it is unsustainable. It is part of a bigger picture.

[Jamastiene]

105. I don't hate vegans and my vegan friends don't hate me.

I firmly believe in a "to each their own" philosophy. I'm not going to do more than make grazing jokes (when my grass needs to be mowed) to my vegan friends (the ones I'm close to and I know get the humor in it) and they don't say too much to me. It's all good natured fun. I respect vegans and vegetarians even if I can't seem to break myself from beef and dairy products (mostly milk). Personally, I wish I had the willpower to go vegan. It really is healthier.

[whatchamacallit]

107. I've seen lots of vegan hate on this board

It usually starts with a nutritional study or a right-wingish "I hate those fucking PETA idiots" post and devolves into a food fight from there. I'm a vegan for health reasons, but I never proselytize. It's your body, eat what you want, live as well and as long as you want, it's your choice. As far as vegans being "loons or idiots" is concerned, if you consider the abysmal state of American health (incidents of heart disease, diabetes, cancer...), vegans seem to be more in touch with reality than most.

[Proud Public Servant]

114. I don't hate vegans. I hate vegan guests.

Seriously, if you have that many self-imposed food restrictions, just decline the dinner/brunch invitation, will ya? I like cooking, but my house is not a restaurant.

Oh, and if you're not a vegan, but at the last minute you decide to bring along a vegan friend without warning me, and without warning her/him that I'm an omnivore? There's a special ring of hell for you.

[Xithras]

118. I dislike all preachy people.

My daughter and her best friend are vegan. I have no issue with the lifestyle itself. Her friends boyfriend, on the other hand, is one of those preachy "meat is murder" vegans who never misses an opportunity to preach his faith and try to convert everyone around him...and to attack those who aren't interested. I've heard him compare the eating of meat to the Holocaust, and meat eaters to the German population who stood by and let it happen. He was once (AND ONLY ONCE) invited to a BBQ at my house. I actually have a separate BBQ grill just for vegan and vegetarian fare, and try to accommodate the vegetarians and vegans in my home and family as much as possible. He practically threw a tantrum when he asked about my preparation methods and I answered in the affirmative when he wanted to know if the knives used on his food had ever been used to cut meat. Mind you, I do isolate my preperation areas from each other, never cross contaminate meals while I'm cooking, and the utensils had been fully scrubbed and washed after their previous uses, but I certainly don't maintain a fully separate set of pots, pans, silverware and kitchen utensils for vegan use. He said that he wouldn't eat food prepared with knives that had been used to commit murder, and angrily ordered his girlfriend not to eat anything either. He told my daughter that "real vegans" don't eat food prepared by meat eaters (my daughter, to her credit, told him that he was an idiot).

Preachy vegans are just as annoying as Tea Partiers and Christian evangelists. You have the right to believe whatever you want and live your life according to whichever moral codes best suit you, but when you use YOUR beliefs to attack the beliefs and moral codes of another, you just become another preachy holier than thou shithead. While I don't hate them, they certainly annoy the crap out of me.

[Marrah_G]

168. He sounds like a control freak

I hope your daughter's friend dumps him.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

120. no, but i have yet to know one who doesn't have an eating disorder

well except for one who is vegan because he is allergic to animal protein (thomcat)

i know du'ers who say they are vegan but dont have an eating disorder but i have never met them

[whistler162]

121. Because they are usually to tough and to chewy

[uppityperson]

129. Saying you aren't preachy, then lecturing on how bad things are? Yes, you are preachy in that case

Yes, factory farms are awful. I am not excusing them in any way. But it is hypocritical to say you are not preachy (meaning the greater "you", not you the OP) and then lecture about how bad meat is to grow, to eat, then to insult people who are not vegan, call their food gross, themselves immoral?

That is preachy.

Half this article is good, then they deny being preachy and the other half is preachy.

I have no hate towards vegans, when we have guests we cook what their diet allows, and we use as much local food as possible.

But claiming you aren't preaching and then preaching? It undermines your point.

[LanternWaste]

145. By that measure, so is just about every editorial against violence and war.

"That is preachy..."

By that measure, so is just about every editorial against violence and war ever written.

[uppityperson]

146. My complaint is not pointing out facts, but saying "i am not preachy" and preaching.

that is all.

[get the red out]

134. I'm not vegan

But I wish there were a lot more vegan options. I really like a lot of vegetarian and vegan food. I certainly do respect vegans and wouldn't imagine hating them or harassing them; I do feel guilty because I'm not really able to be as good as them though. Could that sort of emotion fuel some of the ridicule and "hate"? I know what that emotion is, but maybe some people just get angry when they feel it.

[Avalux]

135. Some people have a disdain for those who do not consume flesh.

I guess because they don't understand the choice, so they are threatened by it. I'm speaking from experience as a vegetarian for a number of years. Never made any sense to me, the animosity I'd encounter.

[kentauros]

171. I have to agree.

I still don't understand their reaction to it, other than that I knew at least two of them were assholes all the time about everything.

I have noticed that the belligerent reactions were common ten, fifteen years ago, and have calmed somewhat in recent years. My guess is that more have become educated, even if they still eat meat, and are able to make the assholes back off. I've certainly had many more accommodate my vegetarian needs over being rude about it

[egduj]

137. Only when it's their turn to bring lunch for the day.

[99Forever]

138. People?

Which people?

I don't take lecturing from any sort of self-appointed "moralist". Hate them? No. Listen to their crap? Nope.

[CrispyQ]

141. Well, if you want to know,

A company I worked at had a 25th anniversary picnic and we had a choice of a roast beef, ham or turkey sandwich. The rest of the menu was pork and beans, potato chips and cake. When I called HR to complain that there wasn't a vegetarian sandwich I was told, "Well you can eat the pork and beans."



So the veggies had potato chips and cake, and the vegans, just potato chips.

Most restaurants are getting better, but in the past it was not uncommon to give you a huge pile of overcooked yellow squash & then charge you $11 for it & be proud that there was a veg selection. I was at a conference this summer & the veg selections were mostly inedible. Look in most veggies bags & you will find some kind of fitness bar or treats to eat before & after events.

Kudos to the poster above who said if there was more vegan food you wouldn't hear from us!

[brooklynite]

147. You're conflating vegetarianism and veganism

Suppose they'd offered veggie wraps, tomato quiche and apple pie? Your vegan friends would be just as unhappy.

[Chathamization]

156. Everyone's against people preaching morality...until they run into things that morally offend them

We all have our limits for "to each her own." Whoopi Goldberg got a lot of pushback when she pointed out that in some cultures dogfighting is OK. Some people finding the Japanese eating whales horrible, or shark fin soup. Eating live animals occurs in certain places, starting from animals we wouldn't worry about (oysters) to those most would be troubled by (monkeys), and there no clear line for when we should be outraged.

[NuclearDem]

157. A few rules I tend to live by as a vegan:

1) Omnivores are not bad people. Someone eating meat or other animal product is not the enemy.

2) There's a time to talk about diets and food--that time is not when someone is eating.

3) Not everyone can afford a vegan diet.

4) Not everyone can survive on a vegan diet.

5) Discuss veganism only when asked and brought up in conversation.

6) Self-deprecation and humor go a long way.

[zappaman]

161. You are my kind of vegan!

[Karmadillo]

159. The very existence of vegans tends to remind carnivores of the grotesque cruelty

required to make meat consumption possible on an industrial scale.

http://www.ivu.org/history/northam20b/singer.html

..."What do they know - all these scholars, all these philosophers, all the leaders of the world - about such as you? They have convinced themselves that man, the worst transgressor of all the species, is the crown of creation. All other creatures were created merely to provide him with food, pelts, to be tormented, exterminated. In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka." - "The Letter Writer" from The Seance and Other Stories by Isaac Singer

Try to balance "It's tasty! I like it! More bacon!" with the suffering found in the video linked in the article below. If, that is, one can bear to watch it. And as upsetting as those eleven minutes are, it's worth remembering similar torture is happening every second of every day around the world. The sins of the preachy vegan seem insignificant compared to the sins of carnivores without whom this neverending horror could not exist.

http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/farm-to-fridge/

[Luminous Animal]

160. Thanks for posting this but as I suspected, it turned into yet another opportunity to bash vegans.

[Marrah_G]

162. I don't

I do avoid people who get preachy, whether it be about food or anything else.

I respect people's right to choose what they eat.

[Rex]

166. Nope. Eat what you want, when you want to.

Is my motto.

[Warren DeMontague]

173. What happens in Vegans should stay in Vegans.

WOO HOO YES I JUST CAME UP WITH THAT

[customerserviceguy]

188. Well done!

Of course, that is a carnivore term for how some folks like their beef. I find your humor medium rare, which is how I like mine!

[kentauros]

176. Why? Because some people are just assholes.

It doesn't matter what they do or don't eat. It's the fact that they are assholes and seem to enjoy being rude pricks to those that aren't just like them by way of their diet.

As I said in my previous post, the negative reactions in the last few years have calmed some. More people are accommodating (my family, for instance) to diets unlike their own. It doesn't do anyone any good to be rude.

The few assholes I had problems with in my early years as a vegetarian were what I'd call "Exurban Cowboys." That is, they lived way out in the country, kept cattle or other livestock, and drove 90 miles one way to work in "the city" (which they hated because it was too "liberal" for them to do anything but work there, and always in overtime mode.) They were assholes through and through, so I probably should have expected the worst at all times from them.

[Cha]

179. I say to each his/her own. We certainly don't have to all eat alike..

I've been a vegan for 25 years and couldn't care less what other people eat.

I do it for my health.

Just 'cause I wanted a colorful pic.

[immoderate]

180. Think of that **CRUNCH** -- when you bite in to that pickle!

--imm

[DJ13]

181. They're a little chewy, but okay with ketchup

[gerogie2]

184. Some Vegans are like born-again Christians...

always trying to convert others to their way of thinking. Pray to any God and eat any diet you want, just don't bug me about it. I'm an adult and I can make my own decisions.

[SidDithers]

185. I'm not a big fan of vegan zombies...nt

Sid

[oneshooter]

187. Could acts like this be a big part of the reason?

[Marrah_G]

193. I know people like this think they are helping their cause, but they aren't

[yewberry]

192. Yes.

Yes, they do.

I'm not a fan of talking about my diet in the real world. It creates grief.

And please, understand that for every pious, annoying, evangelical new vegan questioning your meat-eating choices, there are probably ten meat-eaters offering me a bite of their hamburger (hilarious, right?), parading their "Bacon, yummmm!" banner, or offering detailed anthropological explanations of why I should be eating meat.

[Luminous Animal]

196. My sister-in-law (knowing I was a vegetarian) once offered me a bowl of vegetarian chili.

I was really pleased when she handed me the bowl that she'd gone through the trouble! But when I smelled the aroma, I knew there was meat in it and declined. Her defense was that there were vegetables in it and thus made it vegetarian and "what was my problem." So here I am amongst family and strangers (their friends who I had never met) being grilled about why I wouldn't eat the damn chili.

Not only that, but several of their friends were pissed off at me because now they were 'forced' to eat vegetables. Apparently, unbeknown to me, my sister-in-law was famous for her multi-meat (deer, pig, cow, bison - no vegetable) chili.

[mythology]

195. I'm too lazy to hate vegans

I find some of them annoying, but that's more because they fall under the category of human than the fact that they are vegan.

But hating them would take way more effort than they are worth. Not because they are bad people, but because hate takes a lot of work and it's not like they are curb stomping kittens or are neo-nazis or have some other characteristic that would make them actually worth hating.

[AndreaCG]

197. I'm 95% vegan

And have been vegetarian since 1973. I coexist just fine with non vegans. If people ask me why I say it's better for the animals and the planet. If they want more details I'll go into them. Yes, some vegans are judgmental but that's true of any group. There are plenty here who preach their political beliefs and are judgmental of those who disagree. So why single out vegans in an abusive way?

[cherokeeprogressive]

199. Nnnnnnope.

Just their holier than thou attitudes.

And even then hate is too strong a word.

[JEFF9K]

202. I'm a vegan, and don't hide the fact.

The amount of negative feedback I have received is close to zero.

[LeftyMom]

203. They don't. Having to answer the occasional stupid question is hardly oppression.

And I've been vegan for long enough that I have to sit down and really think about it (twelve years???) so yeah, I guess I'd know.

[XemaSab]

205. Get in the kitchen and make me a taco

[LeftyMom]

206. I have to go to the SDA store for supplies. But I keep remembering on Saturdays.

#veganproblems

[Manifestor_of_Light]

207. I'm not vegan or vegetarian.

But I do have several serious major food allergies so I cannot eat a lot of things.

I have had people stare at me dumbfounded about what I eat after I told them what I am allergic to.

I can eat a lot of things, just not what I'm allergic to. A lot of things I don't like, as well. I've always been a picky eater and must be what they call a supertaster. My grandmother would yell at me at the dinner table for not eating her shitty Mississippi boiled to death cooking. Argue constantly, and swear up and down I would starve to death. I didn't starve to death. I am still here decades later.

Also avoided raw onions, tomatoes and bell peppers, red peppers or yellow peppers. That was before I knew I was allergic to them but knew to avoid them.

I was grown before I found out I liked broccoli. I had never had it before. I was in college before I had Chinese food. I was in graduate school before I had Japanese food.

My mother said she learned to cook by doing the opposite of what her mother did.

So I learned some good cooking tricks from mom.

[Bettie]

208. Hate is a strong word

I am annoyed by vegans who insist on preaching to me on the evils of anything that doesn't fall into their diet.

I'm annoyed by excessively religious people who insist upon preaching to me on the evils of any sector of my life that doesn't agree with their views too.

[Starry Messenger]

210. I reduced my blood pressure by 20 points this year by giving up most meat and butter

products. I enjoy meat and dairy but staring at hypertension at 43 was grim. I like creative challenges and have subbed many of my favorite dishes with vegetable versions.

I know several vegans, and it is not hard to be accommodating in communal food events. The occasional fanatic shouldn't be a barrier to admitting that our food system can be problematic.

[branford]

211. Do People Hate Vegans? Only the ones that don't eat meat. :)

I personally don't care about anyone's dietary preferences. I'm very pro-choice. Unless you're a cannibal, I'll mind my own business, and expect you to do the same.

Unfortunately, I've met way too many vegans that appear to care far too much about the fact that I'm omnivorous. I most certainly have little tolerance or respect for those who preach incessantly to me, no less accuse me murder and similar atrocities, whether about food, religion or anything else, and particularly while I'm eating.

Curiously, I've only very rarely encountered preachy vegetarians. The smugness and self-righteousness seem to mainly confined to some vegans.

[U4ikLefty]

212. People hate the stereotype.

People that are jerks about being vegan are probably jerks about many things.

I'm not a vegan BTW, but have a few vegan friends and it's not something we even think about.

[haele]

213. Nope, people hate proselytizers.

Technology, Political, Economic, Diet, Religious, MLM - People don't mind hearing helpful suggestions, but being told they're "wrong" because the other person is aggressively making the point that they (the listener) just don't believe or practice the correct way is a hard thing to deal with along with all the other shit in their lives.

Haele

[Warren DeMontague]

222. Damn Right--- Preach it!

I mean, uh....

(I actually do agree with you)

[eridani]

216. A pain in the ass to plan meals for

That said, real friends are worth it.

[Recursion]

220. Why do vegans feel persecuted?

[Lee-Lee]

226. I gave up on a friend who went vegan

Because it became something she could not shut up about.

I tolerated that, and the constant dictating to me how I would be healthier, and the whining about her lack of choice on menus when she self-segregated her eating habits.

Then she started attacking anyone who went out with us if they ordered anything with meat, effectively monopolizing the groups discussion to bully people over their meal choice. So whenever we all went out nobody could eat meat or she would make a huge deal about it.

Then she decided that making a big deal out of it wasn't enough, and she had to refuse to sit with anyone eating meat.

All the while giving us condescending lectures about how we just were not "advanced" enough to go vegan yet but we would be as smart as her some daY.

She could not go anywhere out to eat without making a huge deal about her being a vegan and making sure everybody knew and at a minimum making condescending remarks about people who didn't eat as she did- and she was the only one who brought it up.

We all just finally quit inviting her anywhere with us, as she sucked the fun out of everything. Last I heard she moved to Asheville because her friend that got her going down that path moved- at least there they can go to vegan friendly places and share their smug condescension about everyone else among themselves.

[Mariana]

239. I've had friends who became Christians

go through exactly the same process - starting with bugging everyone to "get saved" and how wonderful it was, to bringing Jesus into every single conversation, to trying to bully everyone into praying with them, to finally refusing to associate with "heathens" at all.

It's freaky to watch someone change like that.

The only vegan I know well enough to call a friend is in it mostly for health reasons and has only been eating that way for a few years. I believe her when she says it's done her a world of good. She's incredibly healthy and vigorous, and she looks amazing. I would never have guessed she was in her 70's. She's made me interested enough to at least look into eating that way.

[Oktober]

232. People hate preachy vegans...

Them and the crossfit crowd....

Yes, we know... You are thrilled...

No, we don't want to participate in your activities nor do we want to hear about them... No, we certainly don't want to hear about why your specific choice (lifestyle, diet, activity, whatever) is so superior to what I have in front of me...

[B Calm]

236. I think it's more the other way around. They hate meat eaters!!

[ohnoyoudidnt]

238. No

Their diet is good for the environment. I don't care for th preachy ones, but I have no problem with them. It's not my business