General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAfter Maher-Affleck, We Need an Honest—and Calm—Dialogue on Islam
After Maher-Affleck, We Need an Honestand CalmDialogue on Islamby Dean Obeidallah at the Daily Beast
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/10/after-maher-affleck-we-need-an-honest-and-calm-dialogue-on-islam.html
"SNIP.......................
And by the way, the Muslim world, as the media loves to call it, doesnt exist. At least not in the sense that there's universal agreement on Islam or how it should be followed. A Pew study in 2013 made that very point revealing that Muslims around the world disagree in big numbers on almost everything connected to Islam.
A responsible discussion about Islam is not cherry-picking poll results from one Muslim country, or even from a few of the 49 Muslim-majority nations, and saying Well, thats what Islam is all about.
For example, on the issue of whether a women must wear a veil or not, 90 percent of the Muslims in Turkey and Tunisia believe its the womens choice. In contrast, only 30 percent in Afghanistan feel the same.
On issue of whether there should be a death penalty for leaving Islam, 64 percent of Egyptians said yes while less than 5 percent of Muslims in Turkey held that belief. Big difference, yet both nations are home to almost 80 million Muslims.
So a responsible discussion about Islam is not cherry-picking poll results from one Muslim country, or even from a few of the 49 Muslim-majority nations, and saying Well, thats what Islam is all about. That would be like taking poll results from very conservative portions of the United States and saying that represents all, or most, of the 300 million-plus Americans views on issues. So be specific, and then we can address why the laws or views in that country are the way they are. Yes, I know its more work this way, but its also more accurate.
And if you want to have a discussion criticizing laws in certain Muslim-majority countries that discriminate against women, minority faiths, or gays, Im with you. However, some of the laws, like Saudi's ban on women driving, are not based on Islam but on rulers wanting to control people. We need to make those distinctions.
........................SNIP"
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Affleck and others keep likening criticism of Islam to racism or homophobia and that is utter bullshit.
"Religion does tell us something about a person's mindset; race does not. And our mindset often dictates our action. In short, religion is a far better predictor of belief, and therefore behavior, than race."
http://ffrf.org/news/blog/item/21513-what-ben-affleck-missed-in-the-islamophobia-debate-with-bill-maher-and-sam-harris#sthash.53QeJT85.KylQ0Dvb.dpuf
applegrove
(118,654 posts)Dr. Strange
(25,921 posts)Thanks for that article!
valerief
(53,235 posts)and the Ayatollah Khomeini took over.
I wonder how many of those women felt safe enough to answer truthfully.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Would be Christians in this country. I personally know some southern Baptists that refuse to believe catholics are Christian. I went to college with a guy at the University of Kentucky, that believed while growing up, that to be a Catholic, you had to kill someone.
Even within religions you'll get different beliefs. Cardinal George is an ass who does everything he can to put down the LGBT community. However, the pastor of my aunt's church in the burbs believes LGBT people were born that way and preaches love and understanding
Religion, like the constitution, is a living thing in the sense that it changes with the times.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)Or ISIS ?
Or Al Qaeda ?
Or honor killings?
Or beheadings?
Or acid in faces ?
Just asking if that's included ?
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)Let's discuss the current state of...
Jewish terrorists groups
Jewish beheadings
Jewish honor killings
Jews throwing acid in women's faces
Go for it.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Jewish people for these matters even if the majority of Jewish people tend to support most of the crimes committed by the state of Israel - because It is still not fair. Your effort to promote racial and religious hatred is not something I would tend to support - because things get complicated when identity politics kick in. .
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)The problem started with the poster saying "Islam is a conservative, bigoted, regressive religion..."
Btw... That wasn't me.
I happen to agree with Maher but feel free to make me the scapegoat.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Jewish People are apologist for Israel's crimes- because I understand that identity politics complicates issue and otherwise decent people become unreasonable - I also don't want to blame Muslim people for similar reasons.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)bobclark86
(1,415 posts)Genocide, forced removals, lynchings, etc. into a discussion about Christianity.
LostOne4Ever
(9,288 posts)That law is based on the religious leaders of Saudi Arabia and not the ruler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia#Mobility
http://mic.com/articles/66575/the-inside-story-of-saudi-arabia-s-bizarre-ban-on-female-drivers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulama
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mufti_of_Saudi_Arabia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Aziz_ibn_Baz#Women.27s_rights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#Al_ash-Sheikh_and_role_of_the_ulema
Correct me if I am misunderstanding, but it does look to me that particular issue kinda is based on certain interpretations of Islam. More specifically the religious leaders of Saudi Arabia. If I am reading this right the ruling family of Saudi Arabia is actually pushing for more women's rights.
LawDeeDah
(1,596 posts)freaking A+++
plus