US airways gets bad press -attendant wouldn't hang vet's decorated jacket in 1st class closet

[Liberal_in_LA]

Http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/10/10/us-airways-feels-wrath-of-social-media-when-flight-attendant-mistreats-army-ranger-151500


U.S. Airways flight attendant’s alleged mistreatment of an Army Ranger on Thursday took Twitter by storm.

According to ABC affiliate WSOC-TV in Charlotte, N.C., the flight attendant refused a request from First Sergeant Albert Marle to hang up his uniform jacket to keep it from getting wrinkled, telling the ranger the service is only for first class passengers.

To add insult to injury, when first class passengers agreed to exchange seats with Marle to accommodate his request, the flight attendant refused to allow it.

“When he asked if he could hang his coat up to keep from getting wrinkled, he had a chest full of medals — many deployments,” Cliff Autrey, a passenger on the flight, told WSOC-TV. “All she had to say was, ‘Yes.’”

Eventually, another attendant hung up the jacket to the dismay of the first attendant.

A passenger who appeared to be on the same flight was so outraged that he began tweeting a series of messages about the incident, tagging U.S. Airways. He stressed in one tweet that “not a soul in first class had a coat. Not one!”

[morningfog]

1. This is stupid. It's just a jacket.

You'd think someone brave enough for multiple deployments could just wear a jacket, even with a wrinkle.

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. he was going to job interview, i think

[MADem]

90. His bona fides are under question right now-one commenter suggests a "stolen valor" issue.

If that's true, no wonder he didn't want to call too much attention to himself--this is from the comments at this ABC news site: http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/passengers-claim-us-airways-flight-attendant-mistr/nhfgC/?ecmp=wsoctv_social_facebook_2014_sfp

Posted by Joe_Lobsterman at 7:13 p.m. Oct. 10, 2014 Report Abuse
Albert Marle doesn't show up on AKO. AKO is Army Knowledge Online. Those with AKO access are able to search Soldiers who are on active duty, reserve, guard, and reserve. The article lists him as an Army Ranger, but if he's not in AKO, he's currently not even in the Army.

Did anybody ask him for his CAC?

There are discrepancies on his uniform, and with his posture, that suggests that he was a junior Soldier at one time, but isn't currently serving in uniform. His service stripes are too far apart, his Iraq Campaign Ribbon is missing the campaign star, the right side of his foreign badge isn't aligned with the right side of his unit ribbon row and his RDI badge, he's sporting both the ranger and special forces tabs, he has a special forces combat service badge on his right side, either his pants is too big or his ACU coat is too small, he has too many badges on his left pocket flap, he has his hands in his pockets, etc.

Also, since he doesn't show up on AKO, he's not a current member of the Army. He's not authorized to wear that uniform outside of what's authorized by AR 670-1, Chapter 23, Paragraph 4. He'd know that if he were a real 1SG (First Sergeant), but it's clear that he isn't one.

The CAC is the next generation ID card, FWIW. No wonder he didn't want to make a stink--perhaps he was fearful of being outed as a fake.

[branford]

94. I hope someone definitely determines if he's a fraud.

If so, absent true mental illness, he should be very publicly shamed.

However, his allegedly bad actions do not render the conduct of the passengers any less charitable, does not reflect on those who serve honorably, and if everyone actually believed he was active duty, the decisions of the flight attendant were still poor customer service and public relations.

I look forward to further updates.

[MADem]

97. I'm going to stand with the underpaid, overworked, FAA minimum-staffed flight attendants.

They aren't servants. They are there to ensure passenger SAFETY and they are paid poorly considering the responsibility they shoulder. They're always abused in situations like this, and it's not right. It's like they are a convenient punching bag, and always festooned with descriptors like "snooty," or "arrogant" for simply enforcing company policies that THEY didn't write, and FAA regs.

If a story doesn't make sense, it's usually because there's more to it.

[branford]

101. Asking to hang a jacket is a common and extremely minor request.

I've made such requests a number of time with suits, and I've always been politely accommodated, as have many other individuals. If first-class passengers were actually willing to trade seats to ensure this small request would be granted, and it was still refused, it's just bad customer service and p.r., particularly since slights against military members tend to make the news.

I also acknowledge that being a flight attendant might stink, but fielding requests from passengers, from the reasonable to the absurd, is part of the job, so long as no one is threatened or abused.

I am anxious, however, to learn if the individual was really active military. It's sadly also possible that he's a honorable vet that sustained some neurological damage that would account for odd behavior. If so, I would feel horrible that this event forced him into the public spotlight.

[MADem]

134. Not when the request is x120 coach passengers and there's only room in the "closet" for a few

coats way up in the front of first class. AND when there's not enough time to do the myriad of things that FAs have to do to prepare the cabin for launch.

It's "only" one thing...until it's another, and another, and another.

And I don't care if he's a faker, a vet, or a soon-to-be retiree. Going to a job interview in your uniform is just not a smart move, one that someone with ANY experience or sagacity should know better than to do. Unless, of course, you're auditioning for a job as a prison guard or a Junior ROTC (High School) instructor. And that is, per his 'mom,' where he was headed--to a job interview because he wants to get "into medicine."

He wasn't on official government business or travel orders.

I stand with the flight attendants--they take more shit for less pay than almost any other group. They don't get paid while they're waiting to sign in, even though they're required to be present ahead of the time. They get paid literally pennies if a plane is delayed. They don't earn even any paltry wages of any substance until the plane has pushed back from the gate.

Their "perk" is that they get to stay in the worst rooms of the best hotels if they're in an away-from-base city overnight. Don't forget to do a bedbug check, kids!

[Liberal_in_LA]

153. uh oh

[CTyankee]

3. Maybe he was being modest about his accomplishments and didn't want to

look like he was bragging. I can understand that. Also, a uniform does have to look right...spit and polish and all...

[Kalidurga]

4. Yes it's just a jacket

so the attendant shouldn't have had a problem with putting it on a hanger.

[HereSince1628]

6. An E-8 might worry about such things as a wrinkle

without being stupid.

We used to call those minor violations "getting gigged", and you can get gigged on dozens of things...

That nasty thumb print on your belt buckle seems as silly as a wrinkle.

But you don't want to be gigged or the subsequent screwing of an awful detail.

Over time you just get careful about how you look

[AnalystInParadise]

8. You miss the point entirely

The jacket wrinkled is not the issue, it is the refusal to break the class barrier that exists on airplanes, even after the 1st class passengers tried to help the soldier.

Second point: It is a military dress uniform, he could have been going to a funeral..................again this is completely on the airline.

[Aerows]

21. No, and you miss the point

This was disrespect. Plain and simple, not to mention that being in uniform requires that a soldier not disregard the uniform by appearing wrinkled.

[TwilightGardener]

25. Military dress uniforms are to be as neat as possible. I know, I watched my husband

wear his dress blues off and on for 20 years.

[yeoman6987]

31. Disgusting! So glad I have US Airlines tickets in November

So I can cancel them. I don't care about the cancellation charge. This situation is repulsive. I think I am physically ill just reading this tragic story.

[morningfog]

47. Lol. Sure.

There is not one thing tragic about this.

[yeoman6987]

56. Bull!

No respect for the military who only represent 1 percent of the population. They deserve all of our respect and more.

[morningfog]

70. Having to hold one's jacket is not a tragedy. For anyone. Ever.

Besides, it was hung up for him anyway.

You want to see a tragedy? Look at the innocent people we killed during his deployments. Look at their families. Those are tragedies. His jacket and his little ribbons? For fuck's sake.

[840high]

59. Please tell them why

you are cancelling.

[yeoman6987]

60. I will for sure! Thank you for the reminder.

[CreekDog]

127. You're going to cancel because of one flight attendant?

Seriously?

[CreekDog]

132. You're physically ill over one flight attendant?

With all due respect, I think it sounds like you have some problems unrelated to this story.

[yeoman6987]

142. A lot of different scenarios offend different times

For example would you reply as rudely to someone who was physically ill at seeing Ferguson ? Well this situation makes me as sick. If you don't like it tough. Put me on ignore if you are so agitated with my expressing myself as if you think you can not only dictate how I should feel about a situation but the completely insult me by saying I have other issues. Who does that????

[CreekDog]

145. Not hanging a coat vs. an unarmed teen getting killed?

I stand by my statement, i am even more sure of it now.

[yeoman6987]

146. I don't care

I was so hoping you put me on ignore. How disappointing.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

150. Results of your jury service

On Sun Oct 12, 2014, 04:45 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

You're physically ill over one flight attendant?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5655410

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"sounds like you have some problems" is an insult and is hurtful and rude and insensitive. Please hide this mean reply.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Oct 12, 2014, 04:53 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not very insulting. Alerter needs to callous up a bit.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No need to get personal against a poster who didn't say anything negative or nasty but was just voicing their own feelings on an issue.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Does not rise to the level.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[yardwork]

136. Do you know for a fact that any of this actually happened?

The story, as "reported" by a right-wing site, is remarkably thin on details. Who are these passengers who witnessed this supposed atrocity? Do we know they even exist?

Because there are a lot of things that don't smell right about this story. First, it would be very unusual, in my experience, for a flight attendant to ignore the offers of so many other passengers to do such a simple thing. In my experience flying, flight attendants are overworked, distracted with a lot of responsibilities, and very grateful to take care of problems as they come up. I just can't see a flight attendant acting the way these tweeters describe. She wouldn't have time. She wouldn't bother.

Next, I would find it very unusual for any airline employee to go out of their way to be disrespectful of a member of the military. The opposite is usually the case. Especially in the south.

Next, military folks here have pointed out some interesting aspects of this man's attire and posture.

Finally, there is an election coming up soon and the Senate hangs in the balance. What interesting timing for an article about people disrespecting a serviceman. In North Carolina, of all places, where a very tight race for Senate is going on.

I think that we should be asking questions about whether or not this actually happened, rather than attacking one another here.

[NYC_SKP]

148. I'm with you. And I'm repulsed by come of the insensitive replies.

Unbelievable coming from tolerant progressives.

There are those who hate all police and all military personnel just because.

[NYC_SKP]

147. Wow, how insensitive. How ingrateful.

I won't forget this mean statement, I wish you were kidding.

[morningfog]

149. His poor poor jacket.

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. Remarkable mystification of the class dimension

The actual beef here is the disrespect caused by the class difference, which is particularly visible on airlines, just as it was in previous forms of travel.

That wound, however, gets displaced on to disrespect for the military, the very form of state power that maintains the class difference. And then the worker who simply executes the daily insults of the class structure in the form of wage labor becomes the villain!

This is really a terrific synecdoche for the whole of popular American thought. The structure is perfect: class anger is ironically channeled into anger at a worker through the device of the military sacred. We even have a sacred garment here. You can't make this stuff up!

[HereSince1628]

10. Maybe I skimmed badly, but it was the beef of another passenger right?

I suspect that even for an E-8 turning up as a center piece of a viral twitter isn't going to be a good thing.

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. My post had nothing to do with who made the complaint

So I'm not sure you're meant to be responding to me?

[Jesus Malverde]

15. ding ding ding

"You can't make this stuff up!"

Its a parable.

[blkmusclmachine]

7. Sensitive, isn't he?

[Liberal_in_LA]

9. he didnt make the fuss. the other paasengers did

[Aerows]

22. No.

And another passenger attempted to trade seats with him and forego sitting in first class so that the man could have his jacket hung up, and the flight attendant forbade it.

[Fred Sanders]

12. Shit like this helps fill the endless cable news hours so actual important shit can be left aside.

[CJCRANE]

99. +1

It was a minor issue that was resolved. I don't see the newsworthiness of it.

[MADem]

135. I'll bet Fauxsnooze is right on it, and has already found a way to blame Obama, to boot. nt

[drray23]

13. forgot than in our country

We have the cult of the warrior. Discounts, preferential treatment everywhere, etc.. yes they do a dangerous job but still. The usual meme is that they defend our freedom. That has not been true since ww2. Right now our military is being used by the MIC to fight wars for profit. They end up being killed or maimed while the likes of cheney and co rack up profits.

[yeoman6987]

33. Thank goodness the super majority would

Not agree with you. That alone gives me hope for our future.

[branford]

36. Thankfully almost no Democratic candidates espouse your views

Last edited Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)

or Democrats in Congress and most state legislatures, no less the presidency and governorships, would be an endangered species.

Member of the military do not choose where to be deployed, those are the decisions of our elected civilian leadership, like our Democratic president. Additionally, not everything they do is violent, and certainly not a "war for profit." For instance, the army has been deployed to Africa to help assist in containing Ebola, and I do not see the profit in the fight against ISIS. Regardless of branch, they perform a very dangerous job, for little pay and few amenities, and willing to risk their lives for yours and mine. What you call a "cult of the warrior," virtually every other American calls simple respect. In many places in Europe or elsewhere, their service members fear to wear their uniforms due to hostility and disdain by much of the population. Maybe you would feel more comfortable overseas.

I would also note that the small discounts and minor preferential treatment sometimes afforded members of our armed forces are generally voluntary, not mandated by law. If a company wants to give a discount to service members or veterans (or the elderly or anyone else), why would you care. Senior citizens often receive discounts, do we have a "cult of the elderly?"

Lastly, how does you disdain for "Cheney and co" and the MIC have anything to do with the issue. It is entirely possible to loathe the views of Cheney and his ilk, and simultaneously have positive feelings about the actual men and women who serve.

You are most certainly free to hold and espouse any position you wish. However, you views about the armed forces are in the extreme minority of all Americans, particularly post-Vietnam, regardless of political party, and are most certainly not helpful for electing Democrats to office.

In this instance, the service member wasn't even the one who complained, it was the other passengers, including those flying first-class. The actions of the flight attendant were foolish and poor publicity for the airline. It's entirely unsurprising that they apologized at their earliest opportunity.

[cherokeeprogressive]

41. Nicely put. Props. n/t

[Jake Stern]

78. "In many places in Europe or elsewhere, their service members fear to wear their uniforms

due to hostility and disdain by much of the population."

A family friend served in the Bundeswehr in the 60's and he never spoke of "disdain" from the population but he did talk about being sensitive of appearances given Germany's (then recent) run of militarism.

It has been less than 30 years since Eastern Europeans emerged from communist dictatorships which used the military as enforcers so it's hardly surprising that the sight of a uniform doesn't always fill them with patriotic pride.

[branford]

79. I was actually referencing far more recent stories that I recalled reading about British soldiers.

Last edited Sun Oct 12, 2014, 07:47 AM - Edit history (1)

For example, (see the bottom blurb in blue with some interesting stats).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2290462/What-way-treat-heroine-Royal-Navy-girl-fought-Afghanistan-told-cover-uniform-Virgin-flight-case-offended-passengers.html

In fairness, I admit that I can understand the discomfort cited in your references. However, it also emphasizes the long and proud history and professionalism displayed by our own armed forces and their relationship to the population. Americans normally identify our service members with sacrifice and liberty, not oppression and tyranny, and helps explain why we treat them the way we do.

In modern history, we even tend to treat allied military members in the same fashion. For instance, during Fleet Week and other times here in very liberal NYC, it's not unusual to see British, French and other soldiers and sailors treated to drinks, hands shaken, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the passengers in the story behaved the same way if it was a British soldier visiting the USA.

No military force is perfect, particularly one the size of ours, and service members are human, and individuals certainly had had their share of problems, but as an institution, they have always been subordinate to our elected leadership, no matter how foolish or shortsighted, and as a result maintain favorability ratings that are the envy of virtually all politicians of both parties.

[Takket]

39. Yeah so by all means...

Last edited Sun Oct 12, 2014, 09:58 AM - Edit history (1)

Let's take all out on this soldier on a plane by not hanging up his coat.

[whathehell]

103. Exactly..Thank you. n/t

[Oktober]

46. If someone in first class was willing to switch...

... Then what is your beef?

[drray23]

52. absolutely none

I have nothing against this soldier at all. I was just trying to make the point that nowadays the military is send all over to fight wars that only benefits contractors. Maybe i should not have phrased it that way.

Again, i do not blame the soldier but the system. I do find it disconcerting that as a nation we are so eager to use the military. 57 % of the discretionary spending is funding the pentagon. At the same time the VA is so dysfunctional that we dont even take proper care of the vets. Instead we get all outraged about a coat jacket.

Thats what got me to post this. Maybe not my best written post.

[branford]

55. There's a big difference between the civilian leadership and the actual men and women who serve.

I, too, am enraged by the VA scandal and believe we are often too quick to deploy our armed forces or don't provide them with the support and services they require. For instance, the high suicide rate among soldiers is a national embarrassment.

However, not only are these issues not the fault of individual service members, they are the ones who actually suffer the most from such gross incompetence and poor leadership.

In fact, these sacrifices are what make the little things like helping with the jacket all the more important to many people of all political persuasions.

[SheilaT]

53. Thank you.

I am mightily tired of the crap about keeping us free, ever since 9/11.

First off, our entire military is volunteer and has been for a very long time. There seems to be a cult of giving soldiers all sorts of privileges that may well not be warranted. Why couldn't this soldier have just worn his jacket? Or taken it off and put it in the overhead rack? Or held it folded neatly on his lap?

If he wants first class privileges, why not (gasp!) pay for a first class seat?

[branford]

61. Did you read the article or other comments?

The soldier didn't complain or demand special privileges. He made a request to hang-up a jacket, as might anyone, and it was denied. He didn't complain.

The people who were most annoyed and made the issue public were the other passengers, including those in first-class who were readily willing to volunteer to assist the service member. The fact that the attendant still would not abide the request is the crux of the story.

The little amenities offered to service members also began to proliferate well before 9/11, and many see it as a response to often less than polite behavior toward them during the Vietnam period. The fact that service members were more widely utilized, seen and discussed simply made these polite gestures more visible and accepted, and all still completely voluntary.

You are free to view such minimal courtesy and respect as "cult" behavior. The Democratic Party, and virtually all of America, would strongly disagree.

[SheilaT]

69. I'm sorry. I don't get why anyone in uniform is

deserving of special privileges. They are doing a job. Just like anyone else. They VOLUNTEERED for this job, just as anyone else has volunteered for any other job. I don't care if little amenities offered to service members began to proliferate well before 9/11. They are amenities OFFERED. Not to be taken for granted.

I was an airline employee during the Vietnam war. I can tell you various stories connected to that. I do not believe that the Vietnam War era is a necessary template for how we should behave now. If for no other reason than the difference between a totally volunteer military, and one that was largely conscripted.

While everyone should always be treated with dignity and respect, I do not believe anyone deserves special privileges just by being a member of a particular caste.

[branford]

73. And you are under no legal obligation to treat service members any differently.

Last edited Sun Oct 12, 2014, 02:37 AM - Edit history (1)

You may be nice, rude or act any way you choose. However, regardless of whether you agree or not, the vast majority of American, liberal and conservative believe some minor consideration is appropriate.

You nevertheless made two points: you implied that the service member demanded or expected first-class treatment, and those who hold different views that are act like we're in a "cult."

The soldier asked if he could hang-up his coat. A simply request that any traveler could, and likely has, made. He was told no, and from his perspective, that where the matter ended. The surprise, anger and publicity was the result of the reactions of the other passengers. To suggest that the soldier was arrogant or felt entitled is incorrect and insulting.

Similarly, by the exasperated tone of your comments, you no doubt realize that the Democratic Party and most Democrats do not share your perspective. Accusing us of having a cult or herd-like mentality is a bit "overblown."

Many companies and individuals defer to senior citizens, and offer them similar discounts and the like as service members. Do you believe that we also suffer from a "cult of the elderly?"

[SheilaT]

76. Okay, so he asked if he could hang up his coat.

He wasn't able to hang up the coat. BFD. He needs to get over it. So does everyone else.

[branford]

77. As many have stated, the soldier didn't make a scene or release the pictures,

it was the passengers on the plane who were annoyed and took action.

The soldier was "over it" as soon as the attendant declined his request.

Your issue is really that the civilians on the plane were angry with the attendant, and even more so when their completely voluntary offers to help were also refused. A passenger or passengers then released the stories and pictures to the media, and the airline itself learned of the story from the media, not from any complaint by the soldier.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

109. Remind us again why we should care about you.

I always thought, as a Progressive, people looked out for each other. Yet as Progressives we assume we should rally around you whenever you might be in need.

What hardships do you endure as part of your daily duties? Did you volunteer for them?

People are all cozy cool with millionaire politicians giving $200,000 speeches and some how claim the politician "earned" it.

Yet, here are young people giving up their time, enduring hardships that most of us would blanch at just to hear described. Hunger, cold, heat, exhaustion, sleep deprivation, injuries, insects, etc. only to be shipped off at the whim of millionaire politicians to face death -- or worse -- or to see their friends, the only people who can truly relate to them, violently torn from them.

But to hell with them, right? They volunteered, right?

If it was any other of our fellow Americans -- our neighbors. We would be concerned. We would be outraged over their treatment and the conditions they live in. They do what they do because they believe it is the right thing to do.

Yeah, I get it: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, the usual suspects and now Obama. Don't take your rightful anger at the millionaire politicians out on the soldiers. The troops endure more than you ever would --

-- and you're the one that voted for the politician that sent them off.

People take statements like yours and hold you up as the definer of Progressive attitudes towards the troops and they resent you -- and through you, us -- because you are insulting their children, spouses, parents, friends and neighbors. And those are the only people the troops are fighting for. Perhaps this is why Progressives can never move to a more populist wave movement. We're too busy insulting the people we claim to speak for.

You don't have to say "Thank-you" but at least try not to be a jerk about it.

[Takket]

124. READ

THE

ARTICLE

[Oktober]

168. So don't...

Other people have respect and are able to make logical value judgments even if you don't / can't.

No one is forcing you or your business to give a discount or even acknowledge a service member.

[UglyGreed]

159. There are many more

jobs that are more dangerous than being a soldier but I bet people would not care if the fisherman's or a laborer's jacket was tossed on the floor and walked on.

[TransitJohn]

14. Did he pay for 1st class? No? Than why bitch and moan.

Our country could use a lot less jingoistic military fetish.

[FreeJoe]

16. Yeah. Dude wasn't even an officer.

Uppity coach trash. Stay off my lawn and out of our restroom!

[drray23]

18. whats that supposed to mean ?

If i pay for a room at the Holliday Inn i am not going to complain that i cant be given a room at the four seasons.
Same here. You get what you pay for.

[egduj]

17. Terrible, right? The problem is that curtain is no security.

There really should be a locking door.

[TwilightGardener]

62. LOL.

[branford]

37. No one is claiming the airline was required to assist the service member.

However, most believe it was an easy and simple courtesy that should have been extended, including many of the actual first-class passengers on the flight.

You are free to disagree, but alleging that those who support the service member, which constitutes almost every other American, have a "jingoistic military fetish," speaks more about you than the soldier or us.

[cwydro]

19. The airlines will frequently bump up service folks into first class anyway.

I think there is something more behind this story.

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. Wow. Things sure must have changed since the 80's-90's.

I must have flown in uniform 40-50 times... and I never saw so much as a free cocktail.

[branford]

80. I think a lot depends on if seats are available, and post 9/11 people began to notice even more. nt

[MADem]

44. That happened to me often enough, and I never asked for it.

I was suitably grateful that I didn't make any extra work for the FA's after their being so nice to give me the extra room.

I always made it a point to thank them when I left and I'd send in a customer comment card praising them, too--those never hurt.

[TexasProgresive]

20. I am dismayed by the lack of comprehension of many of the posters

The 1st Sgt asked that his jacket be hung, one flight attendant refused, first class passengers offered to give the Sgt their seats, flight attendant refused, 2nd attendant hung the Sgt's jacket, a passenger not the Sgt began tweeting about the incident.

From what I read the Sgt did not make any kind of fuss, the outrage was from other passengers.

[Aerows]

23. Exactly.

And they had every right to be pissed that their request to change seats so that his jacket could be hung up was denied.

This was a customer service failure. I would have readily given up my seat and switched, but I flew on USAirways once, and never will again because they are assholes.

[tammywammy]

29. Plus it's just general bullshit.

Can't hang up the damn jacket because he's economy and not first class? What is the jacket closet so fucking full you can't manage to squeeze him in? Give me a break. And on top of that being rude. Who is she to turn down people switching seats?

[RKP5637]

106. Some flight attendants take on the role of the local in-flight gestapo IMO. Not all,

but some. IMO it should have been no BFD. Some years ago on one of my flights, for example, I had expensive electronic gear in a vacant seat next to me I had brought up from under the seat in front of me in flight. I was tried of straddling it with my feet on a cross country flight.

An asshole flight attendant told me if I left it there he was going to see if I could be charged for another ticket. The guy was an absolute asshole. Some flight attendants are assholes looking for opportunities to show their badges of assholiness!

[yardwork]

131. Do we know that any of that actually happened? Have the tweeters identified themselves?

This is all being promoted by a right-wing site suspiciously close to an election.

Do we have any evidence that any of this actually happened?

[yeoman6987]

143. Obviously this Flight Attendent is in the wrong business

I understand they are paid generously well for 4-5 days a month worth of work especially the overseas routes. I have known many that work a few days and they vacation the rest due to free flights and big time hotel rate reductions. You would think they could be nice on their few days of working. My friends loved the job, but also appreciated it and understood customer service.

[yardwork]

151. ...and my post went right over your head.

[yeoman6987]

152. So what. My reply was a personal observation with facts

[TwilightGardener]

24. Even if he wasn't in the military, and just had a nice suit to hang up, they should have

done it if it were possible and there was room. But the military angle makes it worse. I used to be a stickler for rules, even nonsensical ones, at work when I was younger--now I just don't care. Go ahead and fire me for hanging up a serviceman's jacket in first class, is how I would think. One of the hospitals at which I was a nurse didn't allow us to distribute blankets to family members to borrow in the waiting room, apparently to save laundry and discourage them from camping out there at night and napping while their loved ones were in ICU. I broke that rule all the time. Fuck it, go ahead and fire me for it.

[Demit]

28. Maybe the flight attendant needed her/his job & couldn't afford to be so breezy.

[TwilightGardener]

30. Small favors make good customer service and avoids bad PR. Especially in the age

of social media. No one would have fired this flight attendant for hanging up the coat in first class.

[Oktober]

48. This...

I'll bet US airways wishes she had had the freedom to hang the damn jacket now...

[branford]

38. The only people who were complaining were first-class passengers who wanted to help the soldier. nt

[Sancho]

26. Much ado about nothing...

with Twitter and smart phones, there's an opportunity to document real issues and problems. This isn't one of those times.

[Blue_Tires]

35. +1

I wish twitter and smartphones were around when NWA baggage handlers shredded my garment bag into a mangled mess (and yes, I was flying to a job interview at the time) I would have been a celebrity...

And no, I didn't get any compensation...

[rug]

27. All things miliatary are becoming a secular fetish.

[DavidDvorkin]

32. Agreed

That's the real problem here.

[deathrind]

57. /\ This.

[Luminous Animal]

63. Indeed. And the more we elevate these useful idiots that deserve special treatment for

fighting Bush's war, the more we support war.

[branford]

81. Should we treat them differently now that they are fighting in "Obama's Wars,"

or do you simply have a hatred for anyone in uniform?

Do you think that with less than a month to go before elections, Democrats should start referring to members of our military as "useful idiots?" How could we possibly lose the Senate with such a erudite strategy . . .

[branford]

83. All service members are "useful idiots" is most certainly not the position of the Democratic Party,

no more than the smallest fringe of our party would even consider anything close to your position, and doing so would (correctly) render Democrats in elected office as little more than an endangered species.

Luckily, you live in a country where you can peacefully hold and espouse those (or most any) views without government interference or sanction, and our service members would protect you no differently than those who may offer them free drinks or discounts at restaurants.

What's next, eliminate senior discounts and promotions? They don't need it, they should be treated like every other citizen, and besides, they already have Medicate and Social Security . . .

[Luminous Animal]

85. This man is not entitled to first class treatment if he did not pay for first class treatment.

He is no more important than you or me. His service is to empire and has done zilch to protect me.

[branford]

86. And no one, including the soldier, has stated that he was "entitled" to first class treatment.

He asked to hang his jacket in a closet with room available. The attendant said no. The first-class passengers offered to assist, but the attendant inexplicably refused to permit them. One or more passengers released the story to the media where the airline learned of the incident. The officer never complained, made any demands due to his military status, or encouraged the incident. It was all driven by the passengers themselves.

The first class passengers who were willing to trade their seats did so voluntarily, no different than when someone trades seats so a family can sit together or an elderly or sick passenger could be closer to the restroom. Why there was any issue at all is a mystery.

You apparently would not provide such a courtesy, as is your prerogative, for whatever reason. Why would you object if someone else chose to do so?

[jen63]

121. I am a Navy mom

and your comments are offensive.

[msanthrope]

123. Her comments are not the majority view here on DU. Welcome. nt

[jen63]

128. Thank you!

I raised a little hippie, or so I thought and he is smart as hell. He went on mission trips with a school group and it changed his life. So I had him pegged as a Peace Corp type. When he came to me to talk about joining the service, I told him that it was his decision, but that he was not going in enlisted. He applied to the Naval Academy twice and got his appointment the second time.

I hate that people trash military members, thinking that they are all right wingers. This generation of kids in the service are different I think; and that's a good thing.

[branford]

133. Just peruse the thread, and rest assured that most people respect service members.

It's just a few people who are loud and angry who sometimes tarnish liberals and progressives as "anti-military" or "against the troops."

They certainly don't speak for me and most others on DU.

Hope your son stays safe!

[jen63]

139. Your comments in this thread

are greatly appreciated. I understand being anti-military, or against war for any reason, but to hate the men and women who join the military I just can't understand. They have no say in the decision making process, they just follow the orders of their superiors. I personally wouldn't join the military, but that's what my son chose as best for his life and I support fully his decision.

Thank you for your kind words. He has a little less than three years before he is commissioned, after that I'll really start to worry. I told him he wasn't going in enlisted; I figured that he had a better chance of staying alive if he was an officer. I'm selfish where he is concerned, he's my bud.

[msanthrope]

141. I dated a few mids, and was a beard for a few more back in

the days when I worked on the Hill. I have an extraordinary amount of respect for servicepeople, and am sick at heart when people trash the services altogether, rather then rightly critiquing the individuals or policies that are wrong.

As you can see, the DU community agrees with you....there was a 5-2 hide on the second post.

[m-lekktor]

114. people are trying to feel patriotically good about themselves

by fawning over a military guy. i am sure the vet doesn't care half as much as the silly passengers going overboard with this crap. I am a Vet and this is lame to me. I would be uncomfortable as hell if i were this guy. i would be dying to get the hell off that flight because of the passengers making a big deal about this.

[m-lekktor]

115. people are trying to feel patriotically good about themselves

by fawning over a military guy. i am sure he doesn't care half as much as the silly passengers going overboard with this crap. I am a Vet and this is lame to me. I would be uncomfortable as hell if i were this guy. i would be dying to get the hell off that flight because of the passengers making a big deal about this.

[JI7]

34. they SHOULD have hung it up but the passenger is kind of an asshole for making an issue

of it knowing the other attendant did end up hanging it up.

[branford]

40. Why? The publicity will help ensure that it will not happen again. nt

[morningfog]

49. Whi cares if it happens again. This is not a story.

[branford]

51. I care, and apparently so do many others who did not like that it happened at all. nt

[MADem]

43. I flew coach a lot in uniform. I never thought to ask anyone to hang up my coat for me.

He wasn't travelling with "medals"--he had RIBBONS, and lots of people have them.

Here's what you do--you carefully fold/roll the thing and lay it on top of your briefcase under the seat in front of you. Then you use your big feet to prevent anyone else from stomping on it.

When you land, you unroll the loosely rolled thing, give it a shake, and put it on.

I'm sorry--I think this is an asinine complaint. This "special snowflake" shit doesn't fly with me. If he were travelling on a MAC flight, he'd get a box lunch and a "stay in your seat or else."

[morningfog]

50. Exactly.

[branford]

54. I think you're missing the point.

The service member was not the one who complained, and certainly didn't feel he was a "special snowflake."

He simply asked for his jacket to be hung-up. Hardly an earth-shattering request, and no one, particularly him, is stating that he was entitled to the service.

However, other first-class passengers objected, some were more than willing to accommodate him, and it could be done easily with no negative effects to other passengers, first-class or otherwise. Other passengers were also the ones who made the issue public.

I would suggest that next time you fly with a dress uniform, request to hang-up your jacket, even if flying in coach. You might be very pleasantly surprised that the flight attendant and other passengers will be happy to help you.

[MADem]

66. I never asked for my jacket to be hung up in coach. Why? It's COACH.

It's a crappy ride in a tight seat for a cheap price. It's not first class, with closets and napkins and drinks and china and enough room for two in the seat that does a full recline without someone kicking you in the small of your back.

You get what you pay for. And what you pay for, in coach, is FAA minimums--and that includes the minimum number of Flight Attendants, who have better things to do than provide first class amenities to coach pax.

Sorry, I'm just not behind this. We have an All Volunteer Force. People who are in the military WANT the job they're doing, they aren't draftees pressed into service against their wishes, but doing their bit out of patriotism or loyalty. They LIKE the work, they are professionals, they know exactly what it entails (the good, the bad and the ugly), and they enjoy the fruits of their labors on the first and fifteenth of every month. If they last long enough to retire, they'll enjoy those fruits for the rest of their lives. I don't think anyone should insult or disrespect those of us who serve or served, but by the same token, put the pedestals away. It's a job that is also a bit of a calling, but no one needs a pat on the head for doing it.

It's so convenient to make the overworked, underpaid, and poorly staffed FAs the "evil harridans" (and that IS what is happening here) for not hanging up this guy's coat, but if they take care of him like he's a special snowflake, they have to take care of every other idiot in coach who wants everything from their boots to their babies "stowed" and who will accuse the FAs of giving preferential treatment to one passenger, otherwise (they gave that BABYKILLER room in the first class closet, but they wouldn't stow my BABY's stinky diaper bag up there--harrrumph!!!!!!!!).

You want First Class amenities? Empty the bank account and buy a First Class ticket. Otherwise, carefully fold and roll the coat and deal. Anyone who's been in the game more than a year knows how to stay squared away. The shit's half polyester, anyway and it is very forgiving--it's not like anyone is dealing with a quirky steamed wool garment.

Sorry, I stick with the flight attendant on this one. I think the flight crew is getting unfairly targeted here.

[branford]

74. I'm sorry that you are all too willing to accept inferior service.

I believe there is nothing wrong with asking for a simple amenity regardless of who you are, just as the soldier did. The worst response you can get is no, which he apparently accepted without comment or incident. He did not start or encourage this story

As a result, any criticism of the solder appears completely unfounded.

Recall also that other first-class passengers were more that happy to voluntarily accommodate the service member, but the attendant still refused to budge. This was inexplicable, soldier or not. To me, it's no different that trading your seat on a plane so family members can sit together or an elderly or sick passenger could be near the restroom. If some passengers, who were under no obligation, wanted to help, why would the attendant refuse, and why would you care. It certainly wasn't against any rules, as another attendant complied.

This was simply a matter of poor customer service and public relations. It was a minor event that was unnecessarily aggravated by the attendant. Although I generally support what are primarily token and totally voluntary gestures to active service and veterans, and many apparently agree, I'm at a loss as to why anyone would object to them other than a slight feeling of social awkwardness that is more typical of a student in junior high, not an adult.

[MADem]

87. Inferior service? If I expect First Class treatment, I'll pay First Class prices.

It's people who are paying less than the cost of bus fare for their tickets who "demand" extra amenities they haven't paid for who make the plane late, who bring too much shit onboard, who hog the overhead compartments, who don't just take their seat and get this over with, who make so many of us miss our damn connections or have to "Do the OJ" through the terminal to make our next flight.

It's not "stewardess - waitresses in the sky smiling and attending to your every need" anymore. Those people are there to make sure you're buckled in your seat so you don't become a human missile during turbulence, and to get that door open and scream until people evacuate in the event of an emergency. They have some first aid training, and they have been told that they're the first to get killed in the event of a hijacking, so they have some small self-defense training as well. They aren't there to "serve" customers, take coats, diaper babies, or kiss asses.

For every person who wants to "elevate" that vet (and I am not "blaming" him, FWIW), there's another one who is so "anti-war" that they associate the warrior with the conflict. Those flight attendants are in a No Win situation. As I said, the minute they accomodate the "babykiller" someone with a BABY will be screeching that the FA got all up their ass for not taking their baby and diapering him, or getting annoyed if "Mom" decided to diaper the kid in the aisle.

It's a flying bus. TAKE YOUR SEAT. Pee before you get on the plane, poop too, if you know what's good for you. Settle in, and let's get in the air and ALL get this over with as efficiently as possible. That, to me, is a good flight--not a bunch of special snowflakes demanding that this be hung or that be stowed.

The guy knows how to keep his uniform in good knick. Take it off, roll it up carefully and stick it under the seat. Better still, travel in civvies and keep the thing in a foldable hanging bag. Those fit in the overhead with no trouble, even when they're stuffed full of bags.

[branford]

89. He didn't demand, he simply made a request, as would I if there was space in the closet.

He also accepted the "no." He's not responsible if other passengers did not like how he was treated and spoke-up. You seem to even acknowledge that he's not at fault.

If other first-class passengers were willing to trade seats with the service member, why would that annoy you? People trade seats all the time. It's not prohibited, as over the years I've offered and been the recipient of such requests from flight attendants, usually for family members to sit together or for an ill, elderly or disabled passenger to have an aisle seat or be closer to the restroom. Many airlines will even bump-up service members on the own accord.

It is inexplicable that people are essentially annoyed that other passengers wanted to accommodate him because he's in the military. Why does it matter why the other passengers were willing to help?

[MADem]

91. He likely accepted the "no" because he's fronting in some fashion.

See post 90 upthread.

What's inexplicable to me is all the dancing and kowtowing. What's also inexplicable is why someone would wear decorations to which they might not be entitled. Something was most definitely OFF with this story, so I did a little digging beyond the rightwing source poutraging about it in the unhotlinked "link" accompanying this story.

Here's the irony--if it turns out he WASN'T in the military (unless-- are they churning out that many senior enlisted leaders who don't know how or when to wear their uniforms these days?) then what does that say about a society that is so easily duped by jackets with gee-gaws on them?

His mother or someone supposedly said he was going on a job interview. If he is/was in the military, he should be wearing civilian attire--unless the job he was interviewing for was as a hotel doorman.

I never wore more than my top three in all the years I served, if I could get away with it. I preferred to blend in with the rest of society when I could, too, so I'd always take the civilian clothes option when available. The rack of ribbons just gets dirty and it's a stupid, self-puffing exercise. All ribbons are is a poor substitute for no pay raise, anyway and a "been there/done that" list for the forgetful.

[branford]

92. If he impersonated a serviceman, that changes the story, but none of my points.

Do you have any links or cites that suggest the individual was not a soldier or otherwise acted fraudulently, other than your personal experience with your own uniform?

I, and most Americans, have no objection to someone voluntarily offering to help a member of the military or when businesses freely choose to offer minor perks and discounts. The fact someone is wearing a dress uniform is immaterial. What's the downside, and why would you care what others do? These meager courtesies also have nothing to do where and why our civilian leadership deploys our armed forces, or whether we fail them in other areas like psychological counseling or veterans' health care.

The fact that we would also give someone the benefit of the doubt if they're in uniform, also hardly speaks ill of the passengers on the flight or society at large, and as most businesses require a more formal military identification for discounts, it's not often a problem.

If the individual was not a soldier and preyed upon the passengers' good nature, he should be publicly identified and relentlessly shamed since criminal charges would be very difficult. However, a rare fraud should not render anyone so cynical.

EDIT: I saw your link above and look forward to updates.

[MADem]

95. I directed you to post 90 upthread in my previous post, where I cut/pasted the material you seek.

I have no idea if this guy is for real or not--I didn't serve in the Army, so I don't know all the rules for their Xmas tree uniforms--they have far more decorations than USN personnel, and they load them down with geegaws and patches and ... well, crap. It's a bit much, IMO. That's just one person saying he looks "off." Nothing would surprise me. Maybe he was "in" and now he's "out" (to quote Heidi Klum).

If he was in, and he's now out, he is mis-wearing his uniform. You can wear it, even if a vet or retired, at events like Memorial Day, military reunions, speeches in support of the the Navy League, funerals, stuff like that, but the MINUTE you get into "Boykin territory" (remember him? The little shit who preached from the pulpit in uniform?) you're on thin ice. This guy was supposedly going to a job interview. Using his uniform to enhance his business prospects is a sketchy proposition at best.

If I were advising him, I'd recommend a well fitted, well tailored civilian suit.

[branford]

98. My mistake about the link, I edited the post.

I do hope they get to the bottom of the story.

If he's active military, or a vet who's wearing the uniform properly (or at least for a very good cause), it should now be relatively and quick to determine. If so, the story will remain unchanged.

However, if it's a "stolen valor"-type scenario, and just a cheap attempt to get some perks on a flight, my sympathy will evaporate and my blood will boil. I have a soft spot for active duty and honorable vets, particularly those who are disabled, and frauds in uniform have the potential to cast doubt on how the public perceives those properly in uniform.

[DRoseDARs]

45. So, she's in trouble for doing her job and following policy.

Yes, the optics are bad and she should have just done it to avoid all this (and the other attendant only did it to try to put a stop to the whining) but Christ almighty what an asinine display of behavior from the passengers. And ffs, he's flying coach. If he ACTUALLY cared about his uniform jacket and medals, he would have shown greater care in their transport like anyone else with half a brain cell.

[MADem]

67. Best way to deal with this? Put the suit etc in a hanging bag and roll it/shove it in the overhead.

The roll reduces wrinkles.

Fly in a pair of jeans and a sweatshirt. Change in the airport bathroom upon arrival.

[DRoseDARs]

68. Or, actively LOOK to cause a scene. That's a possibility too.

Shades of Backwards-B Girl, if you ask me.

[MADem]

72. Backwards B girl!!!!

It wouldn't surprise me if the people raising the stink were the passengers who were pissed because their "miles" are now based on how much MONEY they spend on tickets, not how many MILES they actually fly!

[yeoman6987]

144. I don't think the flight Attendent should be fired

But perhaps some additional training on customer service is desperately needed. No more than a week without pay. I would even object to anything more.

[DRoseDARs]

154. She doesn't need punishment of any sort. She did her job.

Training? Yes, but only in how to handle adult toddlers. She should have recognized this was going to turn into a thing with a bunch of butthurt and should have bent the rules accordingly, but she was not in the wrong here.

[yeoman6987]

156. Oh she is. Much needed respect for the military

And huge amount of training needed on how to handle a crisis. Is it late for this Flight Attendant? Maybe. I imagine the airline is getting all kinds of negative attention. An apology will be issued at least.

[DRoseDARs]

157. Refusing to violate company policy just to hang a jacket is a crisis?

and "Much needed respect for the military"

Really?


If that's how you want to play this, please cite the civil law she violated (she is not a member of the military; military law, codes and regulations are not applicable here) in not giving due reverence to a military service member's jacket, violating her employer's policies on dealing with passenger requests. No other response is relevant and will be disregarded.

[branford]

160. United Airlines was NOT pleased

They explicitly stated that they support the military, including distinct perks to service members.

http://khon2.com/2014/10/11/passengers-say-flight-attendant-refused-to-hang-army-rangers-uniform-jacket/

Moreover, if you think the issue in this extended discussion is the rules and regulations concerning military dress jackets, you've really missed the forest for the trees.

[DRoseDARs]

162. Failure to read the post: Check. Accuse another of your own doing: Check.

Dodging the question posed: Check.

[branford]

163. Failure to read my second paragraph and miss the point of the entire discussion. nt

[DRoseDARs]

167. Cite the law she violated. Cite the policy she violated.

Hurt fee-fees do not count as laws violated or as policies violated.

She said it was against policy to hang a coach flyer's coat in first class. She stuck with policy. If you can't show how her following stated policy is violating said policy, you should stop. We agree she should have just hung the damn thing to be done with the matter and avoid all this, but she was not in the wrong. She stuck with policy.

But no, please, keep bleating on about how delicate a flower this soldier was and what an awful Human being the flight attendant is for spitting on him and calling him a baby-killer... because that is what this is REALLY about and you fucking-well know it.

[alp227]

58. Uhh...Bizpac review is a right wing site.

The TV station's original story: http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/passengers-claim-us-airways-flight-attendant-mistr/nhfgC/

I recommend DUers NOT to link to Bizpacreview, The Blaze, Breitbart, PJ Media, Daily Caller, etc.

[Luminous Animal]

64. Totally he deserves special treatment for fighting in Bush's illegal wars. Totally special.

[whathehell]

105. Well, apparently they're now Obama's wars...Does that help?

[Sunlei]

65. The military forgot to train the man how to take care of his own clothes.

[True Blue Door]

71. Not a fan of airlines. Even less a fan of the military demanding special privileges.

[ManiacJoe]

75. Well, lucky for you that the soldier did not demand special privileges.

When he asked to have his coat hung in the otherwise empty closet, and the first flight attendant refused him, it was the other passengers who made the fuss.

Maybe you should have read the article first.

[shallwechat]

84. being a f/a is got to be a terrible job.

Just take it to the cleaners, when he gets to his destination. Just a wrinkle. F/A allready have a thankless job, they really dont need some guy, to make it even harder. What do other decorated military members do with their jackets on civilian flights? Are they packed? Are they worn?

[branford]

88. Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way.

Once other first-class passengers volunteered to help, the flight attendant should of accommodated, just like the second flight attendant. The matter wasn't an issue until some first-class passengers became annoyed, and they should have been the priority for the attendants. That's also assuming that the airline did not have an official or unofficial policy of perking military flyers when possible, as many airlines choose to do.

Additionally, all customer service jobs are difficult, no less thousands of feet in the air, but I've seen no one suggesting that the flight attendant be disciplined in any way. The whole situations was simply unnecessary and foolish.

The jacket also seems to be part of a full dress uniform with ribbons and similar accouterments, and not just a simple suit coat or casual wear. I also see nothing wrong with requesting to hang-up an item, military member or not, if you see there is room in the closet. The service member accepted the attendants "no," the other passengers had other ideas.

[yardwork]

129. You are taking the tweets of the passengers, as reported by a right-wing site, as fact. Slow down.

This whole story smells fishy to me, and the fact that it is being promoted by a known right-wing site adds to the smell.

Have the passengers who supposedly witnessed this atrocity come forward? Do we know that they actually exist? It's pretty easy to make up a series of tweets and publish them.

The comments of actual military personnel here are instructive as well.

[branford]

137. The story has appeared in multiple sources and the service member is legit.

See Meaculpa2011's Post #104 for the link.

The issues raised, such as why people have objections to others providing completely voluntary assistance or perks to service members, are also interesting and relevant even if this particular story turned-out not to be totally accurate.

[yardwork]

138. I read post #104 and it links to somebody else's blog.

Where are the other "multiple sources?" I see no corroboration of the tweets of one or two passengers. Maybe this happened the way they said, maybe not.

The blogger linked at #104 calls this a "non story."

[branford]

140. Even I would agree that this particular incident was blown way out of proportion.

However, as I mentioned before, the cultural and political issues raised are interesting and relevant even if the story was found to be a total fabrication.

For instance, do you object if other people or groups voluntarily provide help or minor perks to service members, as do many retail establishments? If so, why?

[meaculpa2011]

93. I almost always fly coach and I travel often.

Unless it's a very quick trip I usually carry a garment bag rather than traveling in a business suit.

I always ask the flight attendant to hang up my suits and have never been denied unless there was no room.

I don't get it.

[branford]

96. Me, too, that's why I find the reactions so odd.

However, it has now been suggested that the individual was not active military and was implicitly and fraudulently seeking benefits he has not earned or would not voluntarily be provided. That would most definitely be unacceptable.

[meaculpa2011]

100. Yes, but...

if that is the case, no one on the flight could have known it.

[branford]

102. Very true, and I made that exact point in an earlier post.

The issues of simply requesting to put a jacket in a closet, proving perks to military members, and the individual's true identity, are separate and distinct matters.

[meaculpa2011]

104. Then there's this.

Not the first time that a member of our esteemed media got the details wrong and some home-bound keyboard jockey ran with it.

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=55754

[branford]

107. Good news.

I'm glad he's no fraud.

The whole situations was stupid and blown way out of proportion.

However, the comments by some about objecting to offering entirely voluntary and minor perks to service members or just about asking a flight attendant to hang a jacket, were truly astonishing.

[meaculpa2011]

108. Whenever one of my friends was home on leave...

back during the Viet Nam era they always wore their uniforms.

Free admission to the movies. And that was when a movie ticket cost 75 cents.

[giftedgirl77]

110. Well considering we are only to fly in uniform...

while on official orders & then it's not in our dress blues I'm going to say this First Sergeant was wrong on a multitude of levels.

[TexasProgresive]

111. I believe that my son wore his class A uniform

when he flew to Denver for a job interview. He did not stay overnight-flew to Denver, was interviewed and flew back to his duty assignment. No he didn't get the position.

[giftedgirl77]

113. If he wasn't on official orders he was wrong.

We (the Army) aren't authorized to travel in uniform unless we are, mainly because Soldiers were taking advantage of the situation to get free shit which is also not allowed.

I have caught more than one Soldier in an airport in uniform & I could tell just from the situation that it wasn't authorized. I made them go change, if they gave me shit I got their units information & called their leadership.

A job interview isn't official business & unless it's for another military position wearing your blues is very inappropriate. They are not intended to be tromped around in public.

[TexasProgresive]

116. He was travelling for an interview with the brass for a new job in the AF

I don't know if that counts for "official orders" as you want to define it since he did not have to go. He could've stayed in his duty assignment and said, "No Thanks, I'm happy where I am." He was hoping for that last stripe from E-8 to E-9 before retirement.

Found this after submitting post:

All soldiers will wear the Army uniform when on duty, unless granted an exception to wear civilian clothes. The following personnel may grant exceptions:

Commanders of major Army commands (MACOMs).
Assistant Secretaries, the Secretary of Defense or his designee, or Secretary of the Army.
Heads of Department of Defense agencies.
Heads of Department of the Army Staff agencies.

Soldiers traveling on Air Mobility Command (AMC) and non-AMC flights on permanent change of station (PCS) orders, temporary duty (TDY), emergency leave, or space-available flights, are authorized to wear civilian clothes. Soldiers must ensure clothing worn is appropriate for the occasion and reflects positively on the Army. Travel to certain countries requires wear of civilian clothing. For up-to-date information concerning mandatory wear of civilian clothing in foreign countries, see DOD 4500.54G, The Department of Defense Foreign Clearance Guide (available online at http://www.fcg.pentagon.mil/fcg/fcg.htm). The individual's travel orders will reflect information authorizing the wear of civilian clothing.
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/Prep_For_Basic_Training/Prep_for_basic_uniforms/when-the-wear-of-the-army.shtml

[giftedgirl77]

120. That's the Air Force, they aren't the Army.

We have different standards. I don't know what the AF allows their regulations are not the same.

[TexasProgresive]

125. The regs I posted are Army

If I am reading it correctly Army personnel are required to wear the uniform when on duty and this includes travel.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

164. The reg you posted said they are authorized to wear civilian clothes

Doesn't say they have to.

I've found nothing that says Army members are prohibited from wearing their uniforms while traveling, except in very specific circumstances.

[TexasProgresive]

169. Thank you.

I don't understand giftedgirl77's saying that military personnel are not allowed to wear their uniforms when in transit. When I was active we were not allowed to wear fatigues off base except to travel to and from work and to wear class As (dress blues) otherwise. Yes we were allowed to wear civilian clothes as well.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

170. Same here

I also didn't understand her comments regarding military members not be permitted to receive free perks for being in uniform. That hasn't been the case for 15 years at least. Even frequent flier miles earned on official travel are permissible.

[Oktober]

171. The answer is that it comes and goes...

... depending on circumstances.

For a while after that whackjob killed three airmen in Germany, Soldiers were required to wear civvies to and from work.

They just did it again with the ISIS threat...

IOW, it's all dependent on circumstances and there is no hard and fast rule.

[meaculpa2011]

112. Are you sure?

I picked up my neighbor at the airport and she was in uniform.

[giftedgirl77]

119. As previously stated was she on official orders?

I.e. coming from deployment, school, or other official affair. Soldiers do the shit all the time because they know it will get them free food, better seats, or early boarding. It doesn't make it authorized or correct.

[meaculpa2011]

122. She was coming home... from... I don't know. n/t

[wercal]

117. Is his hand in his pocket?

Odd for a 1st SGT

[yardwork]

130. This whole story is odd. /nt

[99Forever]

118. Oh noes!

A person does their job and the war worshipers gets a madz.

[Takket]

126. I always thought....

I thought familiarizing oneself with the facts of an issue to make a sound and reasoned judgement before forming an opinion was what separated the left from the GOP/baggers.

I guess not. We democrats are every bit as capable of firing off an uniformed opinion based in our preconceived biases as the people we love to slam as ignorant and uneducated. I find this profoundly disappointing.

Several people in this thread should be ashamed of themselves.

[DrDan]

172. "uniformed" opinion . . . . very good

[kestrel91316]

155. USAir probably has a policy of immediate dismissal for any and all

violations of strict cabin protocol. Because Terra! Terra! Terra!, you know.

[Beaverhausen]

158. This thread wins the award for crazy, jump to conclusions, I'm so outraged thread of the week

[branford]

161. The incident itself was ridiculous and blown out of proportion.

However, the discussion of many of the underlying issues, such as perception and treatment of service members, were politically relevant and informative, if often surprising and disturbing.

[Beaverhausen]

165. His fucking jacket was hung up

Case closed.

Thanks for proving my point.

[branford]

166. Except the jacket was not the only issue, and a lot happened before it was hung-up. nt

[branford]

173. US Airways officially apologizes

https://gma.yahoo.com/airline-apologizes-flight-attendants-treatment-soldier-163600185--abc-news-topstories.html