The U.S. Soldier Who Killed Herself After Refusing to Take Part in Torture

[kpete]

Here's what the Flagstaff public radio station, KNAU, where Elston worked, reported: "Peterson objected to the interrogation techniques used on prisoners. She refused to participate after only two nights working in the unit known as the cage. Army spokespersons for her unit have refused to describe the interrogation techniques Alyssa objected to. They say all records of those techniques have now been destroyed."

The official probe of her death would later note that earlier she had been "reprimanded" for showing "empathy" for the prisoners. One of the most moving parts of the report, in fact, is this: "She said that she did not know how to be two people; she...could not be one person in the cage and another outside the wire."

She was then assigned to the base gate, where she monitored Iraqi guards, and sent to suicide prevention training. "But on the night of September 15th, 2003, Army investigators concluded she shot and killed herself with her service rifle," the documents disclose.

The official report revealed that a notebook she had written in was found next to her body, but blacked out its contents.




the rest (the whole thing is worth a read, especially the note from her brother):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/the-us-soldier-who-killed_b_5972886.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics

[Solly Mack]

1. K&R

[librechik]

2. oh, my==no wonder they don't want women on the front lines

we can't have empathy, mercy, or compassion for the enemy.

As long as they want endless war, women and other actual humans will have a problem with the way it's conducted. Can we please just stop?

[msanthrope]

4. Ask Lyndie England how much empathy she had. Women are just as capable

of being inhumane.

She should have been given a lot more help.

[jwirr]

7. You are correct regarding women being as capable of inhumane treatment - there were a number

of WWII women who ran concentration camps including one named Koch.

[onecent]

5. bullshit Now it's a sin for a human to have empathy>>????????????

Women have just as much right to be there...IF they want to be there. God this world
is getting worse and worse....I wouldn't help TORTURE someone EVER MYSELF. What's wrong with people??????

[librechik]

11. you got me exactly backwards

but whatever--I'm on HER side.

[onecent]

35. My bad....sorry....I'm not having much of a day...I

apologize if I read it wrong....I read too fast...and judge too fast
sometimes...and I'm working on it.
have a good day!

[littlemissmartypants]

22. Exactly. eom

[Android3.14]

42. "women and other actual humans"?

Well aren't you a piece of work.

[dbackjon]

128. That's a pretty sexist comment

Plenty of vicious, brutal murderous women, just like there are men that object to this as well.

[IronLionZion]

142. I doubt this is a male-female issue

But you're probably right about "empathy, mercy, or compassion for the enemy". I'm sure torture is difficult for anyone who has any sense of human decency.

[L0oniX]

3. ...and people wonder why I despise the military.

[AnalystInParadise]

12. Thanks for your support

the good news I fortunately don't draw my validation from the tiny percentage of the population that despises the protection they receive from the military. I suspect the same is true of my brothers and sisters in arms in Canada.

[JEB]

15. I do not support torture. The US should not torture.

Torture protects no one. In fact our torturing exposes our own people to similar treatment.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. The military hasn't actually "protected" the U.S. since 1945

Since then, it's been used mainly to meddle in other countries' affairs: Lebanon 1958, Dominican Republican 1961, Vietnam 1963-75, Laos and Cambodia, same period; Central America 1979-1990, Lebanon again 1983, Grenada 1983, and I've probably forgotten a few. Then there's the whole involvement in the Middle East.

Sorry you bought into the "serve your country" and "protect freedom" nonsense.

[AnalystInParadise]

21. It's not nonsense

but thanks anyway.

I know what I did for twenty years in the Army and aside from my kids, it is the best thing I have ever been a part of. Say what you want, I know what I did and I know how noble it is. It is a lost cause to convince me otherwise.

[sibelian]

29. Did you torture anyone?

?

[AnalystInParadise]

38. I was a

35F/96B, not a 35M/97E. We did the analysis of the information they extracted, not the interrogations. We were often present, but not part of the process. Often we were watching on video feed. The information extracted went into the various databases used by the CI/HUMINT community and sent up the chain for further analysis or incorporated into the local analysis and then used for targeting (both lethal and nonlethal) targeting.

[gratuitous]

99. From your insulated post behind the video screen

You promptly reported any morally slippery behavior to your superiors, correct? And followed up to make sure it wasn't just round-filed?

[AnalystInParadise]

105. No

I was a 35F, not a 35M, there was a separate 35M that was responsible for that type of quality control. My job was analyzing the prisoners responses, not what the interrogators were doing. Besides I was watching the video feed after the fact, the 35M's sanitized their videos, especially after Abu Ghraib.

[gratuitous]

114. Wow, was Orwell right

I guess they have the right person in your position, then.

[AnalystInParadise]

116. What does that mean?

I had a job, I did it. Now I am retired and giving back to the military by imparting my knowledge to young 35F analysts across the Army.

I am not sure what your point is.

[sibelian]

134. I feel like I've just looked under a rock.

And found you.

[G_j]

89. nice story

but the military industrial complex has drained this country dry, while creating terrorists across the globe. I am not saying you did that, but the powers that be, have.

[AnalystInParadise]

91. we do tend to agree

on that in part at least........

[G_j]

100. that's good to know

We don't need a cadre of people making fortunes off of conflicts. They are politicians and businessmen. That doesn't mean that you and your fellow soldiers aren't very honorable people.

[AnalystInParadise]

101. So this is probably the wrong time to tell you

that I am retired and am now a Defense Contractor working as a mentor to young Intelligence Analysts

[G_j]

106. lol

well, I hope you understand what I am saying, never the less.

[AnalystInParadise]

109. I do

and thank you for bring polite.

I still agree with you.

[G_j]

112. you're welcome

I'd rather get along with people, so we can solve our problems together, somehow. It's reassuring that there is at least one enlightened person in the MIC, he, he..

[PowerToThePeople]

26. rec

[Oktober]

27. I see you subscribe to the classic "Hide under the covers and hope everything works out" brand...

... of international policy.

Of course there is the smaller subset of "Someone else will do it"

Bold strategy... Let's see how it works out...

[sibelian]

28. Hm, waterboard people or hide under the covers.

What to do? A tough choice.

[Oktober]

31. Hows that binary thinking working out for you?

[sibelian]

33. It isn't at all.

I was actually wondering how it was working out for you.

[markpkessinger]

129. Oktober, you're the one who posited "hiding under the covers" as opposed to what we have been doing

So the binary thinking appears to be on your part.

[Enthusiast]

135. PLUS ONE, a whole bunch!

[Enthusiast]

23. Torturing Iraqis didn't protect us from a damned thing.

And the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars didn't protect us from anything. These nations were no threat to us anyway.

[AnalystInParadise]

39. I disagree

Last edited Mon Oct 13, 2014, 02:12 PM - Edit history (2)

Ain't freedom great? We can both share our opinions and neither of us is truly right or wrong.

For the record I am against torture, but feel the afghanistan war is not a bad thing.

[LanternWaste]

49. Almost as great as irrelevant bumper-sticker platitudes filled with meaningless jingoism

"Ain't freedom great?"

Almost as great as irrelevant bumper-sticker platitudes filled with meaningless jingoism which adds nothing of substance to the conversation at hand...

[AnalystInParadise]

56. Well freedom is preferable to the alternative

so I am hoping that we are in agreement on that at least.

[Enthusiast]

60. Think what you wish, but you are wrong. No nation-state attacked us on 911.

It was a fool's errand to invade Afghanistan.

In the long run, the invasion of Afghanistan will have done nothing but cost us treasure and lives. Additionally it created tens of thousands of new enemies. We would have been better served and exacted more accurate revenge had we invaded Saudi Arabia.

And I could give a fuck if you are military. If you are military you are have a far more limited perspective than an aware civilian.

You feel the Afghanistan War is not a bad thing? I win.

[AnalystInParadise]

64. I feel like you are just as wrong

I, however don't feel the need to insult you for who you are and what your beliefs are.

So I win.

[Oktober]

108. Ahh... The famous "I called it first so I win" debate strategy...

Haven't seen that one since the playground... Way to bring back a classic...

[Enthusiast]

136. It's nothing like that at all. But way to mischaracterize.

Name something of lasting value created by the Afghanistan War. That will determine the win.

Hey, most of us can see clear through you two. Your arguments sound juvenile. They are not convincing anyone. This isn't Free Republic or some Tea Party forum where misinformation rules the day.

[Oktober]

139. How convenient that everyone who doesn't immediately agree...

... Must be an enemy agent.

[Enthusiast]

140. Agree that the Afghanistan War has lasting value?

Waging war in a blind rage and invading nations that are no threat to us, and didn't attack us, is something most thinking Americans do not embrace.

How much money will Afghanistan ultimately cost us? How many American lives have been compromised forever? How many Afghanis did we kill or maim? How many heroin addicts did we create by protecting the poppy fields?

I am not an advocate for the longest war in American history, a war that will accomplish absolutely zero in the positives column.

[ladyVet]

144. I agree.

I'm a veteran. I stood ready to go if my country needed me. I'm still ready.

I support a strong military. I do not support torture. I do not support endless wars to enrich corporations, while simultaneously exposing us to the (understandable) hatred of those we wage war against for no other reason than profit, thus leading to the endless refrain of "they hate our freedoms, so they'll attack us here if we don't get them there".

[Enthusiast]

145. Thank you.

[grahamhgreen]

79. Is it a good thing? Any positive results, in your view?

[Dont call me Shirley]

104. I'm sure the Afghan victims wouldn't say the war against them was not a bad thing.

[AnalystInParadise]

110. I can't speak for them

I am sure the Germans, Japanese and Italians in the Mid 20th century would agree with you.

[Dont call me Shirley]

113. The entire point is that war is wrong, it must be ended, war has always been wrong and it always

will be. That is ultimate truth.

When will all the people who participate in the mass insanity of war stop dragging all the rest of us peace-loving people into their barbaric fantasies of genocide?

War is never ever acceptable behavior under ANY circumstances period.

[AnalystInParadise]

115. Don't hold your breath

Not being rude, I promise, but war is endemic to the human condition, it existed before history existed and will exist long after you and I pass from this Earth.

You could try to reprogram human DNA, that might be your only chance.

[Dont call me Shirley]

120. Evolution of mind is needed, evolution of thought. Raising our consciousness beyond violence.

And yes, I do believe humans can and must do this or we will exterminate ourselves and all living beings of this paradise we call earth.

This is the truth that we all must see

[AnalystInParadise]

122. Good luck

too many humans like killing, raping and brutalizing their fellow man. How will you get those hundreds of millions of people out of the gene pool?

[Dont call me Shirley]

124. You are not understanding what I am saying, WAR IS A THOUGHT. A THOUGHT CAN BE CHANGED!

GET IT NOW?

[NeoConsSuck]

47. Torturing produces only one thing

more terrorists.

[AnalystInParadise]

55. We are not in disagreement

on that belief.

[Enthusiast]

61. Plus One

[pinboy3niner]

62. Besides the loss of humanity, you mean. nt

[cyberswede]

93. +1

[Ash_F]

86. What have you done to combat torture in your ranks, soldier? /nt

[cantbeserious]

6. War Is A Racket - Smedley Butler - The Military Is International Enforcer For The 1%

eom

[mylye2222]

8. K&R! Thanks for exposing!

[Voice for Peace]

9. I would be extremely suspicious this was not a suicide.

It was just too easy for 'accidents' to happen, and
there was every reason to keep her quiet.

[BrotherIvan]

10. From this excerpt, that was my first thought as well

Because the documents of torture are all gone? And the notebook entry beside her bed is completely redacted so trust us? Yeah, right.

[AnalystInParadise]

13. I can only conclude

that her recruiters, DI's and MOS Instructors failed her along the way. She didn't belong in this MOS, only certain people can handle the job. I wish someone would have helped her sooner and recognized that she didn't belong in the Interrogator MOS. It's a sad, so terribly tragic tale that I have seen more than once.....

[Taitertots]

17. Her HUMANITY isn't the problem, it is the inhumanity of torturers that is the problem.

People so convinced that their actions were criminal that they destroyed the top secret evidence of their actions.

[nomorenomore08]

18. +1000

[AnalystInParadise]

20. Certain people

are not cut out for certain jobs in the military. Certain young men (Bowe Bergdahl) do not belong in the infantry, certain people cannot handle the rigors of interrogation. She is dead and the system failed her. It is a tragedy all around.

[Enthusiast]

25. Torture is illegal under any and all circumstances. It is never justified.

We executed Nazis for torture after WWII. Even those that testified they, "Were just following orders."

How did you get in here?

[sibelian]

32. "cannot handle the rigors of interrogation"

What, you mean they don't want to inflict, useless, meaningless, disgusting misery and suffering on people?

Who writes your script, dude?

[AnalystInParadise]

48. I have never condoned or encouraged

torture, and you are committing character assassination by trying to say I have. The reality is she was not properly screened for this job. If she was, she would have been identified as being unable to handle the rigors of the work. It is such a tragedy, again the Army and specifically USAICOE failed her by not identifying the problem beforehand. They give tests to pilots to make sure they can drop bombs on non-combatants if necessary, they give tests to some members of the SOF community to ensure they can do certain acts, and in the MI MOS's there is a simple version of the test to make sure you can do the job. I am unsure if she flew under the radar or if her instructors were more concerned with metrics than her well being. It sucks any way you look at it.

[JonLP24]

78. I think the ones committing the torture

were "improperly screened".

She was the right person if you ask me, the rigors of being punished for doing the right thing were too much.

[AnalystInParadise]

85. Interrogation

is a necessary battle field function. The problem is when lines are crossed. I still say she was improperly screened. There are thousands of interrogators, as far as I know she is the only to kill herself downrange. Occam's razor......

None of this takes away from the tragedy of this young woman ending her life. It is truly a horrible, horrible event that could have been prevented.

[sibelian]

146. "They say all records of those techniques have now been destroyed"

Therefore - you have no more understanding of her position than any other random person in the street - your background gives you no insight into the specific circumstances of her condition whatsoever. You are making up her "unsuitability" for the "work" to cast perceptions of the "work", whatever that might have been, as a legitimate practice with no knowledge whatsoever of what that "work" entailed. The"work" must be protected so she must be at fault. By the terms of our current conversation YOU are condoning something and you don't even know what it is, so you're in no position to accuse me of anything.

I am very happy to assume that the "work" was sufficiently immoral as to inspire her scorched earth solution, as it is no leap of the imagination at all to propose any level of torture being undertaken at the facility where she was posted, it is well known that the US engages in torture. Do you think we're all stupid?

It is no surprise that you turn the accusation of "character assassination" on me as it is a standard trick of certain kinds of internet users to accuse their critics of exactly the game they are indulging in themselves.

[alarimer]

143. They can't handle it because they are decent human beings

And haven't had the decency brainwashed out of them.

Cases like the OP are an example of why military (and police, these days) thinking is so damaging. Once you turn a group of people into the "other", anything can happen. People will "just follow orders" unquestioningly, most of them. Except for those in whom the brainwashing doesn't take.

[NuclearDem]

43. Torture is not effective interrogation.

In fact, it's not interrogation at all.

I'm not naive to the point that I imagine interrogators don't sometimes have to get rough or hostile with a subject, but that brand of rough is still a far cry from waterboarding, stress positions, sensory deprivation, and Palestinian hangings.

Every single SERE graduate or instructor will tell you beatings and other forms of torture don't produce valuable information; they produce suffering, and consequently, the subject will say whatever the interrogator wants to hear in order to get it to stop.

The most effective method is through building rapport. In fact, the only time I ever "broke" during SERE was when one of the female instructors just sat down with me for a chat.

[AnalystInParadise]

44. I never condoned torture

I would never. I just pointed out that in this case, this young woman was not right to be a 35M Interrogator. Some people are cut out for it, some are not. At the MI school houses, we seem to have become more concerned about the numbers of soldiers graduated (our put-through rate) versus whether or not the person is mentally equipped to do the job. We as a Corps in the Army failed this young woman and now she is dead and it is all our faults, we were more concerned about meeting our metrics for the QTP and less concerned if she was mentally capable of doing the job. It sickens me that no one saw the warning signs that maybe she wasn't equipped for this role. Sometimes I get so frustrated and angry at USAICOE leadership, they seem to be more worried about making numbers, than making soldiers that can do their jobs.

[pinboy3niner]

46. There's little indication that she was wrong for the job

Her objections to the techniques she saw being practiced could indicate she was right for the job--someone who understood the legal limits and would not tolerate practices that crossed the line.

That she was judged "too empathetic" doesn't necessarily indicate misassignment. There is no indication that she had problems with her MI School training or sought reassignment to a different job. Williams, who served with her, reported prisoners being burned with cigarettes. Objecting to "interrogation techniques" like that is not an indication that someone is not "mentally capable" for the job. The mental capability of those engaging in such practices is what is questionable.

[AnalystInParadise]

51. We need mentally flexible people

in the 35M MOS. "Empathy is not in the manual" (That is not my quote, that is what is stenciled above the doors of Greely Hall on Fort Huachuca at the 35M course.)

I understand now, this occurred in 2003, that was before they revamped the course in 2007 to make it more in line with the needs of the Intelligence Community and the government. So I stand by my earlier analysis and would like to add a caveat: If she was trained prior to 2007 then yes she was not prepared for the rigors of the job. At that time there were technically two interrogator schools, one that taught the interrogation methods of EPW's, i.e. soldiers captured on the battle field and one that taught how to deal with terrorists, non-state actors, etc. The vast majority of soldiers went through the first one that sought to use tried and true techniques from history on how to coax information out of EPW's. That school was very sedate and did not teach any of the enhanced methods. The other school was a much smaller school at Fort Huachuca that you had to get selected for after the 97E course(back then the MOS was 97E). The secondary course included all the enhanced interrogation methodologies and was by selection only. It definitely sounds like she did not go through Part B and now it all makes sense to me. I feel like USAICOE and the MI Corps failed her even more.....not sending her to the second part of the course and then asking her to engage in the enhanced interrogations? That's crazy. What a fucking waste and a tragedy.

[pinboy3niner]

57. Mentally flexible enough to be okay with burning prisoners with cigarettes?

She served at a time when illegal abuses were occurring. The problem wasn't that she was trained too early; rather, she served early in the war when torture and other abuses were practiced routinely, before they came to light and brought about changes in policy.

[AnalystInParadise]

58. I don't condone that behavior

I am against it completely.

BUT if you think that stuff is not being trained and used right now, you are dead wrong. The changes in policy were window dressing to get the public to forget.

I served under three presidents, Clinton, Shrub and Obama and those techniques were used throughout my 20 years. The only difference now is that the interrogators have some kind of protection and are a lot more adept at not letting their work get out into the public. The reforms you saw should have put a stop to it. The reforms that ACTUALLY were enacted made sure that no photographic, audio, or video evidence would EVER again get leaked to the public.

I can give you a rundown of these new practices if you are interested.

And no I can't provide links, it is all anecdotal evidence.

[pinboy3niner]

59. I'm a bit confused

On the one hand you take a very professional and ethical view of things; on the other, you state that abuses (which amount to torture, a war crime) continue routinely. Yet you adhere professionally to a system you know to be rife with criminal abuse and tout "enhanced" training and disparage someone who objects as unsuitable for the job and mentally incapable.

The impression I get is that you have not yet resolved these conflicts in your own mind. I could be wrong, but you seem to be expressing some very mixed messages here.

[AnalystInParadise]

63. We are having a very good conversation so far

so my question is who am I disparaging?

I feel nothing but sympathy for the young lady and her family's loss, there were many careers in the Army she could have engaged in, she was failed throughout her time in the Army. Her recruiters failed her, her Drills failed her and her AIT instructors failed her. Worse yet, her unit failed her during the deployment. She was not meant for this kind of work and the failure of the Army to identify this, led to the events that caused her to kill herself. It is a sick, sad tragedy and she paid for the Army's failure with her life.

I am at peace with my time in uniform, I was not a 35M/97E, I never engaged in those types of activities. It was not my job, but I saw those things happen, they happened before my time, during my time and will continue happening long after I am gone from this earth. I wish I could tell you that it will be different someday, but I served three Presidents, a Third Way Democrat, a "Christian" Conservative and a Left Leaning Democrat and all three did nothing to change these techniques. If anything, the "Christian" Conservative, and the Left Leaning Democrat made it even easier to do.

[pinboy3niner]

65. I value your insight from your military experience

My own service in uniform was long ago during another exceptionally challenging time and I had a very difficult struggle with conflicting feelings about that war. Things that were so psychologically overwhelming that, like a lot of my comrades, I just suppressed it all for many years.

What I question is why you are so ready to accept that her fault was that she was "too empathetic" and that she wasn't prepared for the "enhanced" interrogation environment rather than consider that she had valid objections to illegal and professionally unethical practices that you acknowledge occurrred and are still occurring. If I, as an Infantry officer, objected to war crimes, would that just make me unsuitable for my job and mentally incapable?

[AnalystInParadise]

66. Because it isn't a secret

what Interrogators do. It wasn't a secret back then. Most young 97E's wanted to go to the second course I outlined because it was seen as "cool". Don't hate me for my recollections,but at that time many young 97E's thought the secondary course was cool, also it carried an MOS identifier, a quicker route to promotions and entitled them to slightly higher pay if they deployed with a unit using the enhanced techniques.

Now it is possible that she was the one soldier at Prosser Village (the AIT barracks community at Fort Huachuca) that did not know about the enhanced techniques, but I highly doubt that. It wasn't a well kept secret back then, it definitely isn't now due to the MOS's sharing barracks space at Huachuca. I will never say anything ill of the dead, especially a dead brother or sister in arms. I think nothing negative about her, but I do feel that she was not mentally capable of this job. The actions of the 97E community were not a secret, but just because it is not a secret, does not mean a person is cut out for that line of work.

As for you, no, you are definitely fit for command if you object. But you are talking Infantry officers versus Intelligence people. and not to disparage my own peers but the M.I. community has always been full of people that are more morally "slippery" if you catch my drift.

[pinboy3niner]

74. Because it "isn't a secret" and is routine SHE'S unfit for objecting to crimes?

Whether Infantry or morally slippery MI, we are all subject to the same UCMJ. The law does not recognize a double standard, as you seem to be doing.

[AnalystInParadise]

75. Maybe in your time

but they sure do now. Things have gotten worse since AG

[pinboy3niner]

88. The law is the law, whether or not it is observed or enforced at a particular time

I'd suggest you take a hard look at the defenses you've put up suggesting that this is just the way it is done and everybody knows it and a soldier who doesn't go along is unfit for the job and "mentally incapable."

You're defending illegality, criminality, and torture because that's just the way it is done. As an MI professional, you should be more outraged about this than anyone. You know what the legal standards are, and their violation is an offense to you and your profession. To me, being professional means adhering to standards, not giving a wink and a nod to illegal abuses and turning a blind eye to what is morally unacceptable.

[AnalystInParadise]

90. If the law was the law

then General Fast would not have gotten that promotion.

If the law was the law then SGM Willis would not have been allowed to retire.

If the law was the law, General Mary Legere would not be about to take over ALL Military Intelligence for the military.

It's a quaint notion, but it isn't reality.

I am defending none of that, we are in agreement that it is all wrong. I give no wink and nod, but I have seen the most vile breakers of the law receive promotion after promotion. And those who resisted were steam rolled and had their careers destroyed, by both Republican and Democratic politicians....so please spare the speech.

If the law was the law, none of this would exists, but it does.

And in the interim, that girl is still dead because no followed even the fucked up laws.

[pinboy3niner]

98. Ironic, coming from someone who finds the whistleblower unsuitable and "mentally incapable"

Yes, the law is the law, and your examples of how badly it is observed and enforced don't change that.

You assert that you don't condone torture, yet you continue to argue that this is just the way it is done and the whistleblower didn't know any better because she didn't have the benefit of going through the advanced "enhanced" course. Is that the one that makes burning prisoners with cigarettes okay?

[AnalystInParadise]

103. Huh?

There is nothing wrong with her whistle blowing, nothing wrong at all.

I am happy she tried to blow the whistle.

But it doesn't change the fact that she was not cut out for 35M work.

I have never condoned or cheered on torture. I have said it before, I will say it again, it is wrong.

That being said, this young woman was not the right material for this particular MOS and it ended in tragedy.

I cheer her for whistle blowing, but I wish someone had weeded her out and put her in a different job before she took her own life. Those two thoughts are not mutually exclusive.

I feel like I am speaking English and you aren't hearing me.

[pinboy3niner]

119. It's ridiculous to claim that her suicide proves she wasn't up to the job

Her job did not include torturing prisoners. I fail to see how her objecting to that makes her unfit and mentally incapable of doing her job.

Your argument seems to boil down to:

• She was an MI professional who adhered to legal standards and would not tolerate torture.

• Torture is routinely practiced in MI.

• Therefore, if she had not been assigned to MI she would not have witnessed torture and her suicide would have been averted. Ergo, she was unfit and not "mentally capable" for the job.

Are you saying that only soldiers who are okay with torture are fit for MI?

[AnalystInParadise]

121. I am not saying that at all

Your first two points are spot on.

She was unfit because it caused her to kill herself. It could have been averted. And we are only talking about the MOS 35M, not any of the other MI MOS's. She was unfit because she gave empathy to the prisoners, that is a whole separate issue aside from the torture question.

I have been consistent throughout. Had someone been doing their job, they would have spotted her and removed her and she would still be alive with her family. But no, the Army failed her, the Army failed her every step of the way and did not do what was necessary to save her. So yes she was unfit for the job, the fact that she witnessed torture was just an added ingredient.

I am sorry we disagree, I will say it again, I do not know nor have I ever condoned torture. That being said, it still happens every single day. The whistle blowers get crushed, the perpetrators get promoted, the rest of us try to stay out of the way or we have never witnessed such things ourselves. You might not like it, and you might call us names, and that is fine, but that is how things are and how they have been for over a decade now. Nobody is going to ride over the hill and fix this.....and that is also a tragedy.

[pinboy3niner]

125. So you judge her as unfit after the fact because she committed suicide?

No, I don't really think that's your point, though you cite it.

Your assertion that she could and should have been weeded out of the MOS earlier seems to hinge on one thing: the reprimand for being too "empathetic." What I don't get is how you find that judgment accurate and credible considering your own description of the real-world practices in that MOS and treatment of whistleblowers. Any objection to torture could easily be labeled as too empathetic. Do you really trust what officials in that environment put down in her record?

[WinkyDink]

71. TORTURE IS A CRIME. All your bloviating blather will not re-define that.

[Jamastiene]

84. Simple question: Do you consider the "enhanced interrogation methodologies" you mentioned

to be torture?

[AnalystInParadise]

87. Of course

why wouldn't I?

[pinboy3niner]

126. Easy to accuse anyone objecting to torture of the dreaded, forbidden "empathy." nt

[Jamastiene]

82. Thank you.

Well said.

[WinkyDink]

70. Yes, you have, by calling it a "job" that she was simply "not fit for."

[WinkyDink]

72. ALL YOU ARE SAYING, IN EVERY ONE OF YOUR POSTS, IS THAT IT IS A "TRAGEDY" THAT NO-ONE DETERMINED

THAT THIS WOMAN WAS NOT ABLE TO TORTURE ANOTHER HUMAN BEING! NOT that the torture was the tragedy; that her decency wasn't weeded out beforehand is the tragedy, in your opinion!

AND THAT IS A VILE, DISGUSTING, AND ABOMINABLE "ARGUMENT."

YOUR MILITARY MANUALS BE DAMNED TO HELL, AND THOSE WHO ARE "MENTALLY EQUIPPED" TO TORTURE LIKEWISE, WHERE THEY MAY FEEL ETERNAL "ENHANCED INTERROGATION" BY THEIR MASTERS.

[WinkyDink]

69. TORTURE IS A CRIME, NOT A JOB.

[AnalystInParadise]

76. But Interrogator

for the U.S. Army is codified as a 35M and is most definitely a job. No matter what you think, it is a job.

http://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/browse-career-and-job-categories/intelligence-and-combat-support/human-intelligence-collector.html

[Taitertots]

81. No. We should just stop torturing people.

The "system" isn't working when it places psychopathic people in positions where they can torture other people.

The system failed because it shouted down the objections of decent people.

[Enthusiast]

24. PLUS ONE, a huge bunch!

[sibelian]

30. "only certain people can handle the job"

Can I ask you something?

What are you doing here?

[AnalystInParadise]

36. Sharing my opinion

on a message board....

You?

[WinkyDink]

73. Me? Being disgusted that a Democrat-poser is posting that torture is a job one needs to be fit for.

[AnalystInParadise]

83. I am not sure what your problem is with me

But don't you dare disparage the men and women of the U.S. military. Some of my best friends in the universe are 35M's. They have wives, kids, dogs, they play soccer on the weekends and go to church. They get up in the morning and have breakfast with their families and then go and do the job they chose to do, they are not monsters and I, nor they defend TORTURE, how dare you accuse them of that. Find one instance where I defended the inhumane act of torture, I dare you.

As for the young woman, YES she was failed by the Army. It is a tragedy that that failure cost her, her life. I don't know how else to say it to you, she mentally could not endure what was asked of her and she sadly took her life. Had the Army done a better job screening her, had her chain of command paid attention to her needs, or if her instructors identified the problem early on, this horrible tragedy might not have occurred. Some people cannot handle the training, some pilots can't handle dropping bombs on little kids, some people in the Drone program can't handle seeing the faces of their enemies as the ordnance they dropped falls on the targets, and some medics can't treat the enemy wounded and are relieved in the field. The military is a necessary evil, I and damn near every other veteran wishes there was another way.

[Jamastiene]

95. Either you are for a person's right to disagree with you or you are not.

In one post you said people have a right to disagree, then you say, "don't you dare disparage the men and women of the U.S. military." Make up your mind, would you? Either people have a right to say they disagree with torture or they don't. Considering the fact that the torture being discussed here is perpetrated by "men and women of the U.S. military," a person would have to "disparage" the "men and women of the U.S. military" to say that they do not condone torture....unless they do it like you do and call torture "enhanced interrogation methodologies."

[AnalystInParadise]

96. Oh they have the right to disagree

I also have the right to be offended.

Just like everyone is offended by me apparently.

[NealK]

132. "Just like everyone is offended by me apparently."

And of course you're right and everyone is wrong.

As for empathy not being in the manual:

"Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by a lack of empathy and remorse, shallow affect, glibness, manipulation and callousness."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130924174331.htm?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=neurological-basis-for-lack-of-empathy-in-psychopaths

[MelungeonWoman]

94. On Mon Oct 13, 2014, 04:34 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Me? Being disgusted that a Democrat-poser is posting that torture is a job one needs to be fit for.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5660515

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Waaaay out of line.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Oct 13, 2014, 04:43 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Since many forms of interrogation cross the line into torture I cannot vote hide
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I did not find the response out of line.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: "Democrat-poser" is indeed out of line
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[bullwinkle428]

34. Sounds like a new sign is needed : "Your balls must be THIS BIG to engage in torture"

[AnalystInParadise]

37. I don't get it

Some of the best interrogators I ever met were women. Crap, the instructor of the quarter at Fort Huachuca, AZ for the 35M School House is currently a friend of mine, she is 27 years old and about the last person you would ever expect to be an interrogator.

[WinkyDink]

67. Frankly, I'd suggest changing that to "...THIS SMALL, BECAUSE YOU'RE A COWARDLY CRIMINAL."

[whereisjustice]

45. Start a new group, "Democrats for Torture". You'll get all the "Democrats for Citizen Spying"

members by default.

[AnalystInParadise]

54. Why would I start that group?

I am against torture and like Edward Snowden.

[LanternWaste]

50. It appears your conclusion is based on little more than the logical fallac

It appears your conclusion is based on little more than the logical fallacy, post hoc ergo prompter hoc.

[AnalystInParadise]

53. No

looking at the time frame, she went through in 2003, what happened to her makes total sense with how the 97E school house was setup back then. That makes it even more of a tragedy. She didn't get the training and was then sent to do the job. That fuck up cost her life, and the Army is to blame.

[WinkyDink]

68. Your post is F***ED UP.

[AnalystInParadise]

97. I am all broken up inside

that my personal opinions do not meet your approval.

[Dont call me Shirley]

107. The ones who can handle that job are called PSY-CHO-PATHS

[AnalystInParadise]

111. What?

Mighty broad brush you have there, I would prefer you not disparage a large percentage of the Army MI Corps.

[Dont call me Shirley]

117. Killing, torturing, intentionally causing harm to another is wrong. Period!

Aiding and abetting those who perform those acts above is WRONG! Period!

Evolution of thought beyond the killing torturing-intentionally-harming-other mindset must be achieved in order for humanity and life on this planet to survive.

Wars are a major creator of climate warming. In order to slow the damage to life on earth, war must cease!

We have all got to SHARE resources of this world. Cooperate on restoring the commons. Learn to communicate effectively and peaceably. And begin practicing non-violent conflict resolution.

This is what's real! Not the rich's petty selfish wars and imperialistic mentalities!

[AnalystInParadise]

118. Huh?

Warfare is entwined with human DNA has been since there were human beings.

You are asking to stop the sun from rising tomorrow. I wish you the best of luck with that quest.

[Dont call me Shirley]

123. War is not in my DNA, it may be in yours. Where is your scientific proof that war is in the human

genome?

Some people hold on to their hatreds, violence and evil with all their might and wish to convince everyone that they are right about everyone being violent, filled with hatred and evil enough to harm others, just so they can continue to justify their violence and brutality. So they can continue to rationalize their hatreds and violence, which is really insanity.

Sanity is peace. Sanity is sharing. Sanity is kindness.sanity is compassion. Sanity is knowing this.

[NealK]

133. +1

Absolutely.

[daredtowork]

14. This is so moving

If only more people would just step back and just say no.

If only there were less "consequences" and "taking responsibility" for saying no. If only there could be more dignity in saying no. If only we would celebrate people for saying no. If only we made saying no a point of pride.

There are so many things in the US we should just say no to. But people don't because they can't deal with the social and structural punishments involved. Pundits, safe on their Thought Leader Perch, opine that people must "take responsibility" for their decision to engage in dissent. The canary in the coal mine always dies.

If only people could stand in a place of truth and say no with dignity.

[whatchamacallit]

16. I guess the president won't be calling her a "patriot" then n/t

[whereisjustice]

40. torture, like police brutality, only makes things worse for everyone. It's like saying we can cure

disease by drowning witches.

[Babel_17]

41. RIP

She held the line.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. She should have "just followed orders" like the other "good soldiers".

[JonLP24]

77. She is a hero

Any disapproval or anything at all means the world for those suffering the torture.

[Cleita]

80. Hmmf. I wonder if she really did commit suicide.

I hope family or other interested party demands another independent investigation.

[Jamastiene]

92. It is a shame that what she witnessed and endured cost her her life.

I would imagine she took a lot of abuse from the pro torture members. I know what those types are like. They will make you want to defect from the human species. It is disgusting being around them. That is probably what led to her suicide, if it was a suicide.

[dbackjon]

127. Another murdered by Bush/Cheney/Rummy's lies

[Enthusiast]

137. +1

[DirkGently]

130. "Reprimanded for ... empathy."

Encapsulates so much of what is wrong with things.

An army full of people like Ms. Peterson, and America would be a better place, with a prouder standing in the world.

[Supersedeas]

138. the contents of that journal are now a matter of National Security

[eridani]

141. How on earth did we ever manage to defeat Germany and Japan without torture?

That was one reason why everyone wanted to surrender to the American army. Those who wanted to surrender avoided the French and the British, and especially the Russians.

[avebury]

147. There is never an excuse for torture.

The Americans now do a lot of the same types of torture that we conducted war criminal trials post WWII. We have become that which we fought against in WWII.