Has the CDC idiot, who ok'd nurse with ebola to fly, been identified ?

[MoonRiver]

Whoever it was needs to be canned. Just unbelievable stupidity!

[liberal N proud]

1. Whoever it was needs to be brought up on charges of terrorism

Because they have inflicted terror on a whole region if not the nation.

[MoonRiver]

2. Definitely produced mayhem and chaos across the country.

S/he should face some kind of consequence.

[jen63]

7. What mayhem and chaos?

I must have missed that.

[lunasun]

55. Wait it is still being artificially created

[jen63]

59. It's friggin ridiculous.

I just keep thinking back to the anthrax and smallpox "scares" after 9/11. What we need is more fire extinguishers to put the hair out.

[Yo_Mama]

62. Yeah, me too.

Need a different dictionary. I always thought "mayhem" involved reckless, damaging violence, but now I find out it is defined to include "following the instructions you were given by the top advisory risk control body in your profession."

[jen63]

64. I hear ya, with the dictionary.

A lot of words need new definitions if they want to keep the fear alive. "Crisis", "outbreak" ad infinitum.......

[snooper2]

10. I know! I flew yesterday from Phoenix back to DFW and it was crazy!

Everyone had latex gloves on and people were covering their kids and family with large coats. One lady had covered here whole body in plastic bags! On my plane we couldn't get off the plane for 45 minutes because a guy refused to leave the plane and walk into the terminal! He was screaming and blocking everyone, they let him out on the tarmac!

We are ALL GOING TO DIE!

[sendero]

19. Yes we are...

... but probably not of ebola.

[Turbineguy]

51. Is this for real?

My satire sniffer is a bit impaired just now.

[lunasun]

56. Tell me this didn't happen -please

Although Az - TX is ripe for reality

[snooper2]

57. LOL, no, all was normal-

[lunasun]

58. Good I didn't expect that kind of panic until next week!

[Marrah_G]

34. What mayhem and chaos, aside from the media?

[Evergreen Emerald]

3. she is a nurse whose coworker has ebola

and who was exposed to ebola, and had a fever. What the hell? It is not rocket science. And, frankly, she should have known better. Why wasn't she quarantined?

[MoonRiver]

4. I completely agree.

She put her family and hundreds of strangers at risk! Definitely stupid behavior for a medical professional.

[dsc]

6. No she called a specialist

in point of fact the premier specialist in the field, he or she told her go ahead. This is the CDC's fault.

[dsc]

17. the CDC is paid to be specialists on this stuff

that is their whole, entire job.

[Beaverhausen]

23. Not everyone who works at the CDC is a specialist

You are missing the point.

[dsc]

25. then they should have put the woman on hold and gotten a specialist

the CDC screwed up royally here.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

49. Here you are claiming to be so smart. Smarter than the nurse, in fact.

And yet, you're also -- though you may not realize it -- claiming the nurse should have been smarter than the CDC. What exactly is the CDCs purpose if everybody else is supposed to be smarter than them?

[Yo_Mama]

63. wonderful question.

We're blaming this nurse for not being smarter than the collective CDC consensus. This is unique.

[LisaL]

39. And now CDC says she might have already had symptoms several days prior to going back to Dallas.

So she was most likely infectious while on the plane.

[LostInAnomie]

35. What!? You cant expect a person to act with common sense...

... and personal responsibility! Not when there is a government agency to point a finger at! /s

[Nuclear Unicorn]

50. If we're all supposed to be smarter than the supposed subject matter experts

I don't see why we would pay to keep them around.

Vinson had the presence of mind to ask -- repeatedly -- if it was okay for her to fly considering her symptoms and work history. The supposed experts told her -- repeatedly -- she was good to go.

Yes, obviously she should have been isolated for 21 days (though some are saying 42...why can't we get a straight answer?) but then why wasn't the CDC saying the exact same thing?

If internet forum posters are smarter than the CDC then the CDC has outlived its usefulness (or, more likely, the dead wood needs to be cleared out to make room for competent professionals).

[66 dmhlt]

5. Why? S/he was following CDC Protocol ...

Whether it's a good protocol or not (and as a pediatrician, I think it's too lenient) - but it doesn't classify temperature as a "fever" until it's 38.0°C (100.4°F).

Vinson had a temperature of 99.5°F, and acted responsibly in calling the CDC before she flew. They told her it didn't meet the no-fly protocol, so they gave her the go-ahead.

http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/air/managing-sick-travelers/ebola-guidance-airlines.html

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html

[librechik]

12. yup--no scumbags here

just corporate-think weasels.

[GeorgeGist]

18. spineless too.

[randome]

20. I had that temperature last time I donated platelets.

Jeeze, some people just want to crucify whoever's available.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[dsc]

32. had you treated a person who had Ebola?

I have my doubts.

[sendero]

22. A perfect example..

... of "rules" overriding common sense with bad results.

A fever of 99 IN THIS CONTEXT should disqualify one from flying, period.

[tridim]

27. "Period", huh... Why not make it 98.7?

It is quite obvious that you're not an expert, just some know-it-all posting dangerous opinions on a public forum. And making a fool out of yourself.

Thankfully nobody is listening to people like you.

[jen63]

60. Ain't that the truth!

The reason for that temperature thresh hold, is that everyone doesn't run at 98.6. I don't, I run high. Always. I'm sure many in the healthcare field, treating Ebola patients do also. It doesn't mean they frickin have Ebola. Can it get any more cray cray in here?

[TM99]

30. No, no, no damnit.

This woman did not get permission from the CDC prior to flying from Dallas to Cleveland. It was not until after her 'event' that she was to return to Dallas from Cleveland, when she had the fever, that she called.

Even if the CDC fucked up on fever/flight call (and it certainly appears that they did!), she fucked up by going to Cleveland in the first place. She knew the potential risks and the higher probability of infection given Duncan, the failure of protocols in Dallas, and an already stricken co-worker.

She was narcissistic and selfish and fucking DU'er's are giving her a pass because she is a part of the 99%, an RN, and whatever other tripe excuse they can emotionally spew. She is an adult, an educated healthcare worker, and she made a gross error in judgement. Hopefully she did not infect anyone.

[LisaL]

41. She got permission from CDC to go to Celeveland.

Also, CDC is now contacting people on the plane she flew from Dallas to Cleveland because she might have had symptoms already.

[TM99]

66. Facts are still emerging.

I have no problem admitting if that point I made needs correcting.

It still does not change the fact that she is also a responsible adult who made a very poor judgement call for selfish reasons with potentially deadly consequences, does it?

[66 dmhlt]

46. Couple of points ...

First, take it down a notch

Second, did you even READ the links I provided? Clearly not, because it states that she called the CDC WRT her temperature before boarding a plane on RETURN flight to Dallas from Cleveland.

Third, that's a HELLUVA lot of armchair psychoanalyzing you're doing - "narcissistic" "selfish" - based on who knows what.

Fourth, tomorrow try getting out on the OTER side of the bed.

[TM99]

67. Data on the flight timeline aside,

no I won't take it down a notch.

This woman's behavior is being justified by other adults here at DU as being 'ok'. They were not. They are narcissistic and very selfish. She put her own pleasure ahead of the potential risks involved. Another sickened nurse had the self-awareness and moral compass to act far more appropriately thereby limiting possible exposure to near zero. This woman and the idiots at the CDC who gave her the green light have put many at higher risk of infection with Ebola.

[Yo_Mama]

61. The first HCW infection had not been found when she went to Cleveland

Not only were the "exposed" HCW not considered a risk, they were treating patients. They were not told to stay at home. They were not told not to travel. They were not advised that they should consider themselves at risk for infection. CDC did not even have a risk category for HCW who treat Ebola patients with PPE, which is what they did.

They had no restrictions at all except they were told to self-monitor.

I give up. This ugliness is just going to continue to spew on DU. It's non-factual. Entirely non-factual.

[TM99]

65. Fact are still emerging.

Irregardless, the choice that she made was inappropriate and selfish. Other members of the same nursing staff made more responsible choices based on risk of exposure.

This woman did not. That has consequences. It is ugliness to point out personal, professional, and adult responsibilities other than one's own self pleasure.

[Recursion]

11. Why?

Seriously, why?

In four decades there has never been evidence of Ebola spreading on an airplane.

[Whiskeytide]

16. Perception v Reality....

I agree with you. Prob no risk of transmission. BUT....we have to consider the social fallout and political fallout from something which seems to the average American to be incredibly contrary to common sense. Regardless of the risk of transmission, it was just plain stupid for the CDC to NOT instruct her to stay home, and just as stupid for her - as a medical professional - to fly with a temp - ANY temp - after her exposure.

A virologist is likely unconcerned about this. But every other average Joe/Jane is freaking out. The potential for freaking out the masses alone is reason enough to not to do stupid things, and I had hoped the people in charge of our response would have realized that by now.

In other words - maybe her flying wasn't REALLY stupid, but it is being perceived almost universally as stupid. And sometimes perception matters more than reality.

Oh, and you know its all Obama's fault, and also the Democrats too. And there's this mid-term coming up. Jeez. I wonder how long it will be before republican operatives start rumors about EBOLA in the voting booths ... strangely, only in poorer communities in swing states. How odd.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. The perception of idiots is of no concern at all. No one should perform panic shows or play up the

drama to satisfy tabloid type narratives no matter how many fools have adopted them. You are saying that sick people are to blame for the idiot fears in others about their illness, and that we must honor idiot fears by doing infection control theater because idiots need to see certain props and costumes. It's stupid and it is dangerous.
This is a losing issue for Republicans, whose budgetary actions have restricted public health spending and whose history as a Party in terms of their reaction to infectious disease in America is absolutely abysmal and if they start opening that can of worms they will regret it deep and long.

[Whiskeytide]

42. I did not say sick people...

... Are to blame for others fears. How did you get that from my post? Vinson's decision to fly was an admin decision, irrespective of her infection.

But our government and people in health care admin ARE responsible for how their actions are viewed by the public. They need to pay more attention to how their conduct can affect public fears and concerns. That's part of their job. If people lose confidence in them, the likelihood of irrational panic grows exponentially.

And I'd wager that the correlation between republican policies and these perceived failures is, for the most part, understood only by people who are paying attention. And I suspect people who are paying attention already vote democratic. You're counting on the sermon resonating with the choir.

[FSogol]

54. "This is a losing issue for Repubs, whose budgetary actions have restricted public health spending"

True dat.

[tblue37]

36. I bet her fiance is concerned, though, since they almost certainly

would have kissed during her visit.

[Whiskeytide]

43. No doubt. But given the...

...timing of his exposure, his risk of acquiring the infection is still very low. But you would never know that from media reports and from Internet posts - and im sure he's not feeling a lot of confidence in our health care system and our government while he counts his 21 days.

[otohara]

13. Witch Hunt Him

death threats are in order.

Merika

[Fumesucker]

14. We desperately need a scapegoat

One thing I can tell you, it will be the lowest status individual they can possibly affix the blame to, the poor telephone operator.

If the person who answered the phone gave information that bad then it's clear they are not an expert and should not have been on the phone in the first place, whoever put them giving out information is to blame.

[KingCharlemagne]

21. If they can just lay it all off on some undocumented janitorial staffperson, they will

have fully squared the circle and gotten a two-fer:

1) get the truly responsible off the hook

2) keep bashing undocumented workers.

[Blue_Adept]

15. We're at the tipping point

If folks around here are already looking for scapegoats, witch hunts and the mob hunt mentality, it's going to go downhill fast.

"Someone has to do SOMETHING. I don't care if they followed procedure that's in place. Someone's gotta get fired. Someone's life has to be ruined because SOMETHING happened."

Time to dust off the old pitchfork. I wonder if that will be a new cottage industry?

[sendero]

24. The CDC is incompetent..

... the bozos who have been beating the "ebola is really really difficult to get, you should worry about the flu" drums have created an atmosphere of complacency that will be costly.

I'm still not worried about a general outbreak BUT if enough idiots do enough idiotic things anything is possible.

[tridim]

28. Thanks again for your misinformed, faux-expert opinion. nt

[Warpy]

29. Low grade fever + no other symptoms = noncontagious

I think that will likely be changed in the future because of all the knee jerking nitwits closing schools in Ohio.

In any contagion, panic is worse than the disease.

[kestrel91316]

31. [phone] 000

[LisaL]

37. False. Totally false.

CDC is now looking further back because the nurse might have been symptomatic several days before she flew back to Dallas.
Symptomatic=infectous.

[Warpy]

38. That might be a very, very big "if."

Of course, if you want to keep scaring yourself, be my guest.

[LisaL]

40. It's not a big if.

Read the cnn article. Nurse told CDC she already had symptoms going several days back prior to getting on the plane.

[cherokeeprogressive]

44. For me what's more important is who met the plane in Dallas once the CDC knew she was sick?

Did anyone from the CDC bother to send anyone to meet the plane? I've yet to hear. Of course it's possible that info is out and I simply missed it...

[tblue37]

45. Some articles I have read say that "clipboard man" might be a CDC representative. nt

[LisaL]

48. Clipboard man was sendin her off

on the special plane to Atlanta. Nobody met the plane in Dallas when she flew there from Cleveland.

[TorchTheWitch]

52. he works for Phoenix Air

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/clipboard-man-hazmat-suit-ebola-flight-explained/story?id=26235850

The nurse, identified Wednesday as Amber Vinson, was flown from Dallas to Atlanta on medical airline Phoenix Air.

She was seen being transported to and from the ambulance by three people in full-body hazmat suits, but the fourth person by her stretcher was wearing plainclothes and holding a clipboard.

The airline confirmed to ABC News that the man was their medical protocol supervisor who was purposefully not wearing protective gear.

"Our medical professionals in the biohazard suits have limited vision and mobility and it is the protocol supervisor’s job to watch each person carefully and give them verbal directions to ensure no close contact protocols are violated," a spokesperson from Phoenix Air told ABC News.

[LisaL]

47. Nobody met the plane.

She contacted hospital the next day because she was feeling worse.
Now cdc thinks she might have been symptomatic already days before getting on the plane.

[cwydro]

53. Yes, you're right

CNN was repeating all night that CDC wants to talk to peeps on the FIRST flight as well.

The day before they were not. Then she said she did not feel well that day and the days she was in Cleveland.

This whole thing is a train wreck.