Stand-your-ground gun laws 'benefit whites more than blacks', experts say

[malaise]

Wasn't that the plan - the new Jim Crow??

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/17/stand-your-ground-white-black-gun-law-harm-fear
<snip>

Stand-your-ground statutes benefit whites more than blacks, are unnecessary and cause minority men to live in fear, several experts said Friday to the US civil rights commission as it evaluates racial disparities in the laws.

But one dissenter, an African American lawmaker from South Carolina, said the law benefits black defendants by putting in place an extra hurdle in the way of arrest by police officers who may have hidden racial biases.

One commissioner was skeptical of the benefits of stand-your-ground laws, saying they pervert traditional self-defense laws.

Stand-your-ground laws have made young black and brown men fearful, said Ahmad Nabil Abuznaid, a co-founder of the activist group Dream Defenders.

“People are perceived as threats when they just really want to live their lives,” Abuznaid said.

Attorney Benjamin Crump, who represented Martin’s family and the family of Michael Brown, the unarmed black 18-year-old who was shot by a white police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, said there is no need for stand-your-ground laws. He said they are unconstitutionally vague since not one person is going to agree on what constitutes “reasonable fear”.

“Stand your ground was a solution looking for a problem,” Crump said.

[JimDandy]

1. Well, duh

and duh, again.

[jtuck004]

6. +duh. n/t

[dballance]

9. Yep, and "No shit" to add to "duh" /nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

13. my first thought too

And, "Sherlock".

[gollygee]

31. Yeah "duh" was my first reaction too. n/t

[lalabetsy]

2. RAZMAN

RAZMAN BOB

[hobbit709]

3. tata betsy

[AndreaCG]

4. That African American lawmaker was quite mistaken

His rationale for his vote is far from what it became in practice, which is as the article states severely disadvantageous to minorities.

[aikoaiko]

5. "Reasonable fear" is the premise of all self defense laws

If that's the problem with SYG laws then one would have to object to all self-defense laws.

The big differences I we in most stand your ground laws (and get differ in different states) is:
Removing the duty to retreat
Adding in a procedural hearing before the trial
Protection from civil penalties

[noiretextatique]

17. racist fear is nt reasonable

except to other racists. therein lies the problem.

[aikoaiko]

25. Of course, as it is for most laws.

[Oktober]

29. That isn't what he said...

Crump was claiming that reasonableness standards are unconstitutional for being "vague"

[heaven05]

7. ya think?!!!!???

[heaven05]

8. Amerikkka

is really becoming a sickening experience.

[marym625]

11. You said it! n/t

[noiretextatique]

18. i mean really

talk about regression! republicons have sucessfully exploited race to their advantage. but of course, there are no racists in americKKKa

[marym625]

10. stand your ground laws

Are one of the worst laws that have passed in our country.

In North Carolina SYG laws don't cover domestic cases. They're not just racially bias, they're misogynistic as well.

The fact that the woman in Florida, who hurt no one, is now on trial facing a 60 year sentence, is a perfect example of part of what is wrong with these laws. http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/17/1337149/-5-More-Women-Accuse-Marissa-Alexander-s-Abusive-Husband-Of-Extreme-Brutality

[noiretextatique]

19. yet watch the jerks here who claim what she did

was WORSE than what zimmerman did. absolutely sickening

[marym625]

23. It is atrocious

[Prophet 451]

12. In other news, water still wet

The laws are working exactly as intended. The fact they "benefit whites more than blacks, are unnecessary and cause minority men to live in fear" is not a bug, it's a feature.

[Snarkoleptic]

14. "Now y'all don't quote me on this..." - Lee Atwater

Passing laws that disproportionately harm the African American community is a core principle of the conservative movement.
In an "off the record" moment of candor, Atwater sums it up here-

[heaven05]

22. an intended feature

because of the 'black threat' to the amerikkkan way of life.

[tk2kewl]

15. ... And by "expert" I guess they mean "not brain dead"

[ileus]

16. Laws don't discriminate

people sometimes do, but you can't punish a law because of that.


You shouldn't be required to be an easy victim....ever....anywhere. It's not right that some expect it.

[noiretextatique]

20. this law IS discrimanitory

as it was intended to be. the people who enacted this law knew exactly what they were doing. the people who use this law to get away with murder know what they are doing. and the people on the juries who acquitted zimmerman knew what they were doing. people do use the law to discriminate, because that was the intent. this law is no different than black codes and other racially discrimanitory laws enacted by a hateful majority.

[heaven05]

21. +1000

[gollygee]

32. +1

"Laws don't discriminate?" What utter bullshit. A great number of laws throughout history were created specifically TO discriminate. Like this one.

[AverageJoe90]

36. I wouldn't quite say a hateful *majority*, Noire.....

because, let's face it, if that really were 100% true, this country would be in far deeper shit than we are now(We're talking close Nazi Germany levels here, btw).....but, then again, it doesn't really take a majority of genuine bigots for stuff like this to happen. Which is part of what makes stuff like that scary, even to someone who isn't as likely to be adversely affected by it(myself).

[uponit7771]

28. Laws that don't account for normal human biases DO discriminate. The issue is the judges

... and them allowing the SYG statues in jury rules and even allowing the defense to be taken by Hispanic or black defendants.

There are few if any black or Hispanic judges in the US justice system

[GGJohn]

30. What?

There are few if any black or Hispanic judges in the US justice system?

I don't know where you got that idea, but that's out and out false, there are lots of minority judges in the US justice system.

[uponit7771]

35. relative to white judges and the population there are few to none in areas in the US

[Jenoch]

24. What a POS story this is.

How can there be a headline touting experts and then not have a single quote or even information attributed to the experts.

[Oktober]

27. Self declared experts...

[Jenoch]

34. I didn't even see those in the article.

[Oktober]

26. What an amazing legal insight...

Not one person is going to agree on what is reasonable....

Totally forgetting that reasonableness standards have been a part of law for years, long before anything resembling "Stand your Ground" came about and that anyone with two brain cells to rub together realizes that specifically defining reasonableness is impossible as there are an infinite number of situations that can arise.

Genius...

[AverageJoe90]

33. Unfortunately, that does indeed seem to be the case, at least in certain areas. nt

[Eleanors38]

37. Experts. So they are proclaimed. Who needs data?

SYG is the equivalent of "no duty to retreat," the law in big blue California.

You want to see Jim (large, raucous black bird)? Take a look at NY City's "Sullivan Laws," or anywhere "may issue" gun licensing laws still exist.