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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOfficials: 3 Denver girls played hooky from school and tried to join ISIS
(CNN) -- The first indication that something was wrong was a phone call from his daughter's Denver area school to let Assad Ibrahim know that she had not come to class.
He dialed her cell. And she answered. But, officials say, she didn't tell him that she was on her way to Syria to join ISIS.
She was just late for class, that's all, Ibrahim's daughter told him on Friday, according to the Arapahoe County Sheriff's Office, which filed a runaway report.
The American girl of Sudanese descent also kept quiet about her two girlfriends, Americans of Somali descent, who were flying with her to Turkey by way of Germany.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/22/us/colorado-teens-syria-odyssey/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I can't imagine what the motivation would be there
muriel_volestrangler
(101,390 posts)They are effectively putting themselves up as sex slaves.
Girls as young as 14 or 15 are travelling mainly to Syria to marry jihadis, bear their children and join communities of fighters, with a small number taking up arms. Many are recruited via social media.
...
In most cases, women and girls appear to have left home to marry jihadis, drawn to the idea of supporting their brother fighters and having jihadist children to continue the spread of Islam, said Louis Caprioli, former head of the French security agency Direction de la Surveillance du Territoire. If their husband dies, they will be given adulation as the wife of a martyr.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/29/schoolgirl-jihadis-female-islamists-leaving-home-join-isis-iraq-syria
Recursion
(56,582 posts)http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/inside-the-online-world-of-the-women-of-isis
Additionally, if they succeed in getting more internationals involved they will probably have to deal with women who want more of a front-line position (e.g. Chechnyans or Bosnians, whose militant groups have always had female fighters).
As far as the motivation? Smashing capitalism and imperialism holds a certain mystique for a lot of teenagers.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,390 posts)The one clue that they were going to do this was that they'd looked as sites talking about how to get to Syria. The article doesn't actually say they participated. If they didn't, all the NSA (or whoever) would have is IP addresses showing someone was reading the sites. Innocent people do sometimes look to see what extremists are saying. I can see that reading the sites would be held to be a low priority problem.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,390 posts)and enough information that people who know the Somali or Sudanese communities in the area will expect to recognise the families. So, yes, I believe the story. I take it you don't. Why not? What do you think the reality is?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and I'm going to let it play out. Wouldn't want to "play into a conspiracy theory", now would I?
The babies were flung from the incubators and Iraq had WMD's, right?
muriel_volestrangler
(101,390 posts)To be honest, I suspect that you haven't thought it through at all, and this is just a kneejerk "my government must be lying to me" reaction.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)That's an interesting conclusion to arrive at.
"kneejerk "my government must be lying to me".
Considering that my government has been so incredibly truthful ( ), my incredulity, I would think, would be natural.
And to state that I haven't thought it through at all? That's rich!
muriel_volestrangler
(101,390 posts)A lack which continues. If you're unable to put forward an alternative, it's reasonable to conclude you don't have one.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and they aren't with my (or yours, for that matter) explanations on what happened.
The massive chasm between this occurring exactly as the government stated it happened and common sense would take a *huge* leap of logic.
Feel free to come to your own conclusions, but I'm just going to sit here and go "HA HA HA" do you really think everyone is this stupid? Re-evaluate the story as written, then think about passports, security in a post-911 world, airports, valid ID, and monetary means to do all of the above, along with monetary means on their person WITHOUT triggering a response.
Really think about the logistics. Then think about the fact that these are teenagers. Are you *REALLY* going to tell me this bucket could hold water?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)The story is definitely bizarre, but not necessarily completely unbelievable.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)How did they get a visa to enter those countries? If they were US citizens, they DID need a visa to enter the the countries they were traveling to.
It's dumb.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,390 posts)Is it possible for 15-17 year-olds to have enough money for a transatlantic flight? Of course it is. And there's the possibility they had help from someone else - we'll see.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)where ISIS operates without a visa. Please feel free to look it up.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)They were probably caught when they couldn't produce visas for further travel.
Frankly, I haven't read very much about this. Is it possible that they hold dual citizenship/dual passports to get into any of the countries where ISIS operates?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)to enter the countries they were supposedly going to. Maybe they were planning to hike from Greece (LOL!) overland, or hike from Turkey as 15, 16 and 17 year old girls after they bought a visa in Turkey (LOL!).
Do you see the logistical problems with either scenario? Because I certainly do.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)From there ISIS has operatives getting people coming in to fight from all over the world across the border.
ISIS has been active inside of Turkey for some time now, they have crossed the border with impunity.
The two Austrian girls took the same route through Turkey to join ISIS. They are 15 and 17.
LawDeeDah
(1,596 posts)Oni Isis | FanFiction
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/538130/Oni-Isis
Oni Isis is a fanfiction author that has written 5 stories for Sailor Moon, and Rurouni Kenshin.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)is so bad you would have to be dumber than a bag of hair to take it at face value.
Not the OP, who just relayed it, but whatever government official decided to concoct this fable. WMD, babies flung out of incubators, etc.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I would have thought there would have to be permission for an airline to agree to let a minor on board.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)JI7
(89,279 posts)of course they had the whole fighting for a cause bs to justify stealing money , running away from home etc.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Can't say for sure this is the case here but there are other inexcusable options if not.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)for sound decisions.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Joining a squad of murderous, scumbag, religious filthy killers is not one of them.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Replace sharia with international communism and there's not much difference...
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)They invaded her apartment and abused her as captive for weeks and weeks before she 'joined them'.
JI7
(89,279 posts)she went against them as teenagers do and father called authorities and reported them.
it's not like he sold them off to some thugs in the name of his faith or anything.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I'm very glad they got the girls back before they ended up as slaves, married off to some fighter.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)on many levels. I'll let people that haven't had their common sense flung out of the window to decide why that is.
Hint: babies aren't getting flung out of incubators, either.
This isn't a slight against you, yuiyoshida, you are just reporting the story. Thank you for that. It is up to intelligent people to process the news given and decide if it makes any sense, and this story doesn't make a grain of it.
yuiyoshida
(41,867 posts)THIS IS getting fucking crazy.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-apprehended-after-jumping-white-house-fence/
Autumn
(45,120 posts)"German authorities intercepted the trio, ages 15, 16 and 17, at Frankfurt airport and put them on a plane back to the United States, where they were greeted by FBI agents."
Daddy found out the girl was gone when the school callled to let him lknow that she had not come to class?
Horse shit.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)as "a goldfish on a bicycle stole my lunch money!"
Chemisse
(30,817 posts)Is that the girls are allowed to go back home. All is forgiven.
Now that may seem the sensible way to handle this kind of situation, since they are under age and were probably lured into this decision, but it strikes a discord to me.
Since the 'war on terror' began, there has been no mercy for anyone who is even suspected of maybe joining forces with terrorists. Why aren't these young girls in prison?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)It's a bunch of horse shit, that's why.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,390 posts)Missing school? Wasting police time? To have them in prison, as opposed to at home (where it sounds as if the parents will watch them the whole time), you need a specific charge. And that will need hard evidence that they were going to join a terrorist group, as opposed to just travelling to the area (and is intent to join a specific charge? Or do they need to have joined?) Perhaps they will be able to work up a charge, examining their computers and phones. But look at the Canadian pair who killed 2 soldiers this week; they had their passports confiscated (which governments can do without a trial, because they are government property, in most countries at least), but they weren't jailed.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)forging a visa. Since you aren't going to be traveling anywhere and entering a country without one. I know you live in Great Britain, so you are definitely smarter than to believe you just enter a country without one if it isn't in Europe.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,390 posts)so there's no particular reason to think they had forged a Turkish visa, which you'd normally buy on entry. As far as I can see, US citizens can travel to Germany without a visa. Whether Turkey refuses visas to unaccompanied teenagers, I don't know; they may have been planning to sneak in overland from Greece.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Really? Buy a visa on entry into Turkey? Really?
Far be it from me to say that any and all of that sounds far-fetched, but whatever floats your boat.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,390 posts)as the link pointed out. People are smuggled into Greece from Turkey; the smugglers may now have a sideline in taking people back. Whether either of these would have succeeded, we don't know, since they were stopped at the German airport.
This isn't about whether their plan was well enough thought through to succeed, if the alarm hadn't been raised before they got beyond Frankfurt; it's about your dismissal of the whole story as a fake to rank alongside the 'killing babies in incubators' and 'Saddam has WMD' stories. You're saying it's part of a US government misinformation program. Which bit do you think is a lie?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I've heard too much bs in my lifetime and this reeks of it.
You may call me whatever you like for being the frontrunner of calling this bullshit. The entire story is about as plausible as someone publishing a discovery that the moon is made of cheese.
I reiterate. I will accept responsibility for being the front-runner of calling horse shit on this story.
You are free to mock me if I am incorrect. Deal?
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)What is the "real" story? I've been enjoying your back and forth but I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what you're getting at here.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)what is the "real story" here as opposed to this fiction, I want to hear it. I've stated my case for how implausible this entire story is, and I wasn't the one that created it. I just explained how the official story is epicly stupid.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)So the story of a romantic misguided notion to go off and marry ISIS fighters, while not realizing that Visas are required for foreign travel, is completely plausible to me.
Is wanting to marry a terrorist even a crime? Seriously, I do not know.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)WTF?
"Hey, Mom and Dad, here is my boyfriend. He's a jihadi with a .50 caliber. Don't do Christmas ham this year!"
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)duped by people who are obviously just pretending to care- and to be soul mates.... but we've all seen it happen to people smarter than 16- 17 year olds. Seducers are going to seduce and isolate. I'm sure the same hot guy is skyping with 30-40 teenagers daily because he's better at it than anyone else there. Even if he succeeding 1/100 it's worth it to them PR wise.
Boy those gals will be pissed about the bait and switch to another guy- who treats her like chattel and uses her as a breeder- when they get to Syria.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Nothing in this story makes a bit of sense.
JI7
(89,279 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)How damn far do you think all of this really could get?
There are 3 areas where this breaks down. I showed you one.
Now here is a gem!
The NSA/Five Eyes spy on us to protect us while violating our freedoms, but they couldn't catch school girls until the school girls got into Germany, which isn't part of Five Eyes.
Pee on my leg and tell me it is raining again.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,390 posts)If they do monitor the IP addresses that read extremist websites, they're not following that up to identify the households using the addresses, and then placing all the members of the families on the no-fly list. That's what your incredulity boils down to - that they weren't marked as a problem and prevented from boarding the flight in the USA, because their households accessed some sites. Of course, they might well have used public IP addresses to read them, in which case identifying them would be even more difficult.
Do you think reading extremist websites should put someone, and their family (because you won't know which one is doing it) on a no-fly list? I personally think that would be an infringement of their rights.
mainer
(12,032 posts)US citizens don't need visas for UK and Germany. turkey visas can be obtained online within minutes, or on arrival at the airport.
And yes, a visa for Turkey is that simple. Arrive in Istanbul, wait in line, pay the fee, and you're in.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)But entry visas to the countries they were supposedly going to? No. That was my point.
So that leaves 3 teenaged girls traveling to a violent area. With 2000 dollars pooled together.
How does that make sense?
mainer
(12,032 posts)fighters are being escorted across the Turkish border by ISIS. That's how the Aussie kid probably got in.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)girls, 15,16 and 17 will be shuttled right in?
Uh, are you aware of the culture there?
mainer
(12,032 posts)mainer
(12,032 posts)It's not a restrictive country. I have driven all over it, and all you need to do is head east or south and you'll be at the border. No one will stop you. I'm a woman by the way.
I won't argue it anymore.
mainer
(12,032 posts)While I've got your attention. It's beautiful, friendly, fascinating, and cheap. I head there next week on business.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Do enjoy when you go
They do things with yogurt and cucumber as a sauce to make a person drool for a lifetime just thinking of it .
EDIT: I'm a tea fan. I love tea. Turkish tea is delightful!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)happened to teenagers in the UK? they're young, not savvy enough to understand they are being manipulated and often angry at the world. I don't know why anyone would think our govt needs to do anti Isis PR, they are doing a really fine job on their own.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)"I don't know why anyone would think our govt needs to do anti Isis PR, they are doing a really fine job on their own."
But our government has a history of bungling things.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)planes and no bombs. Both pretty difficult to fake, and kind of pointless in both cases too.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)With 2000 dollars all together. No visas for the countries they want to enter ... sorry, bettyellen, I'm having a problem with this one.
I can suspend my disbelief only so far, and this one doesn't pass the test.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)even internationally. No one blinks an eye. I do not see the problem at all.
Not sure what is weird about this except how dumb it is- but teens can be pretty dumb and easily manipulated.
Isis is not going to bother trying to recruit older people with steady lives and jobs, that would be a waste of time.
Do you think they faked the british and canadian voices in their videos too? I saw speculation about that but think it's a crock. It is not currently difficult to get to Syria.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)thing is a crock of shit. It's contrived and weird. Maybe I'm too cynical, but the whole thing smells. Not just the teenagers going and getting caught in Germany, which is pretty damn strange, but all of it.
I don't know.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Steal your parents' credit cards.
Buy your flight tickets.
Grab your passports.
Head to the airport in own car or call a taxi.
Get on a plane. (They were all beyond age of needing to be escorted.)
Meanwhile, parents figure out what's going on. Girls not at school. Check their computers. Did girls leave notes?
Notify authorities.
Grab the girls in Germany, before they fly to Turkey, which does need a visa upon entry, but is simple to acquire.
Thought on the parents and their parenting - kids do stupid shit! These parents wanted their daughters back. I presume they are not radical themselves and don't plan on stoning them upon return.
/sarcasm
Seriously, though, these girls will be questioned to see if they had actual contacts, which is probably unlikely. More likely, they are stupid, irrational girls, who have romanticized the fight against the enemies of Islam. Of course, they could have a contact in this country, so they will be watched just as a precaution. NSA and all that...
brooklynite
(94,792 posts)...Took me several weeks and mailing my passports to Washington to get them.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)begging Turkey to provide more security @ crossings for months.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)going. Interesting the Dad can believe she would do this, but DUers are having a hard time.
Another teen was arrested (beecause she is 18) for the same thing last month. All admittedly had cute jihadi boyfriends skyping them. Heady stuff for a rebellious teen.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)on the "cute jihadi boyfriends" via skype.
They were stopped in Germany, had 2 grand pooled together on them, and no entry visa to where they wanted to go.
bettyellen, you are a New Yorker. You must be smarter than to take this at face value.
It isn't even political for God's sake, it's common sense.
JI7
(89,279 posts)worried about paying it back you can easily steal it from family and other close members.
or they could have got it from the ISIS guys who want to marry them .
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)pretty well off, wasn't she? God knows how much an upper class teen can squirrel away in six months to a year if she wanted to.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)on the spot- not sure why you keep claiming there was some obstacle stopping them from getting to Turkey? There was none.
Dad knew his daughter had a romantic LDR with a foreign muslin, (he denied them his blessing) and put two and two together when he found her passport missing. He went to the best friends house and found they were missing, l also stole 2K and took their passports.
That is when he called authorities.
Sorry, it is not that hard once the tickets are bought. No one blinks an eye at teen travelers.
Do you have ANY theory why the USA would try to make something like this up? DO you think thy are faking Isis videos? Bomings? What?
I'm curios, because THAT makes no sense to me.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'm sure you do, too.
My thought is that it was gin up support for what is going to turn into a "Boots on the ground" against ISIS, despite that public support for another war campaign has a sorry showing in polls.
Chemisse
(30,817 posts)They are all charged with crimes.
Such as this one:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/justice/colorado-jihadist-guilty-plea/
muriel_volestrangler
(101,390 posts)Conley, a convert to Islam who wore a blue and white striped jail uniform and a traditional Muslim headscarf, appeared before a federal judge Wednesday and pleaded guilty to charge of conspiracy to provide material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization.
...
She told federal agents she had read a book called "Al-Qaida's Doctrine for Insurgency" and intended to wage jihad against the United States, according to the criminal complaint.
...
Conley first came to the attention of authorities after the pastor and the security director at a church in Arvada, Colorado, called police and said she was acting suspiciously. Authorities interviewed her seven times over the course of five months before arresting her at the airport.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/10/justice/colorado-jihadist-guilty-plea/
Their youth and apparent lack of other activity may have stopped them from being seen as more than foolish wannabes with a vague plan to get to Turkey. And it's possible they will be charged; Conley had a history the authorities could put forward at once as evidence, while they've only just started the investigation of the teens.
Chemisse
(30,817 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)brooklynite
(94,792 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Seriously, not the honey ham this time. Or the oyster dressing. Or ...
Oh hell, we'll just have a salad and eat somewhere else after they leave.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and joining anti-Western Jihadist terrorist groups..... it was all different back in my day.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)the dumbest story I've ever heard, and I've heard some dumb ones.
I think they picked up whatever fell off of the turnip truck to make "news".
JI7
(89,279 posts)in their case i think they got the money from some isis members who were looking for wives.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2703792/Twin-Manchester-schoolgirls-ran-away-Syria-married-ISIS-fighters-mainly-stay-indoors-read-Quran-unless-jihadi-husbands-out.html
boomer55
(592 posts)JI7
(89,279 posts)so they are able to communicate and more easily have things in common with others in places like the US , Europe etc.
this is why there seems to be more young people in the west who find it appealing compared to Al Qaeda and some other groups where it's mostly older types raised in the old countries and much more conservative who mostly want to talk about the quran .
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)ISIS, ISIL, IS, Islamic State ???? members have learned a thing or two, apparently, about attracting young females.
KinMd
(966 posts)girls would skip school, go to a guys house, get high and maybe have sex. The good ol' days
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)ya' skipped school with your fella' and walked down the railroad tracks into a rural area where you "made out."
Those were some well-worn tracks.
yuiyoshida
(41,867 posts)PARIS (AP) The teenage sisters told their father they were staying home sick from their suburban Denver school. Instead, they took $2,000 and their passports and headed off for Syria with a 16-year-old friend. They made it as far as Germany before border guards detained them for questioning.
The fact that adolescent girls could make their way across the Atlantic might come as a surprise to many parents, but a patchwork of laws and rules governing international air travel in many cases makes it easy for teenagers to travel with nobody's permission but their own.
Airlines have a range of rules governing minors' travel: Many major carriers including United Airlines and Scandinavian airline SAS place no restrictions on children over 12, while others let even young minors travel as long as they are accompanied by someone over 16. Yet others, including American Airlines, require a parent to accompany travelers under the age of 15 to the gate, while those 15 and over face no restrictions.
Countries have a separate set of laws that is no less haphazard, from a Russian requirement for notarized parental permission to the U.S. system where adolescents with valid passports are free to come and go.
In Spain, both parents must fill out a permission form at a police station before a minor can travel alone. In Germany, where the American teens were stopped, border guards are required to verify that minors have parental permission to travel.
And in France, which is Europe's single largest source of would-be jihadis, parental authorization had to be received by city hall until January 2013.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/world/article/For-teen-with-passport-Syria-trip-can-be-seamless-5842188.php