Want to know what #gamergate is really all about?

[Saviolo]

Here's an excellent discussion on the topic starting from base assumptions and building up from there:

http://chezapocalypse.com/episodes/s4e7-gamergate/

At its root, the #gamergate controversy is about sexism and homo/transphobia that is so engrained in the gamer culture that it has become a base assumption of the gamers involved. The apologists and defenders who claim it is about ethics and journalistic integrity see no dichotomy between those statements and the idea of harassing, exposing, doxxing, or threatening women, gays, trans, and their allies in order to silence them.

Perhaps the most important thing in this video is where he says that even though it may be a small minority that is involved in these activities, all of the apologists benefit from the environment created by those violent and harassing activities.

So, if you've been curious about what #gamergate is really all about, this is an amazing summary.

[el_bryanto]

1. Very well worth watching. Very insightful. nt

[Saviolo]

2. It's nice that he takes his time...

and doesn't try to summarize what really is a complicated scenario into a very short and inadequate sound bite. There are still tons of things he could talk about in more depth (which he acknowledges through the video), but this is a really excellent base to build from to educate someone on the situation.

[el_bryanto]

4. My only quibble about it is that while he does an amazing job on the underlying assumptions

(which to be fair, is his point) - I'd like to see more on the timeline of events. But - the video is already 20 minutes long, so adding that in probably wouldn't be that useful.

Bryant

[Saviolo]

5. Some of the comments...

(yeah, I know - never read the comments) talk about the timeline. But yeah, that would be likely be a whole new video. After watching this video, I'd like to know more about the timeline.

[seabeyond]

3. all of the apologists benefit from the environment created by...

and they are just not willing to put that man card down, and side/walk to right.

[LostInAnomie]

6. Bullshit.

This video is nothing but some dumb shit with preconceived notions about what gamergate is doing mental gymnastics to confirm his preconceived notions.

If you want to find out what the goals of an organization are, probably a good place to start is by asking members of the group. if you ask almost anyone involved in the gamergate what their goals are they will say "To end cronyism and corruption in the gaming and game journalism industry." They won't say anything about keeping women or minorities out of gaming. In fact if that was a goal, they wouldn't be paired up with #notyourshield (a collection of women and minorities that support gamergate). You don't usually hear about that though because it doesn't fit the biased narrative of corrupt journalists trying to protect their own racket.

If you look at the actual complaints of GGers, they almost mirror the complaints that Democrats have had about the MSM for years. They believe that journalists are too cozy with their subjects. They believe that nepotism and cronyism are a detriment to the industry. They believe that agenda driven journalists and articles are ethically damaging. They believe that advertisers shouldn't have any sway over objective reporting. It is all the same basic complaints you see on DU everyday, but because a PR campaign has labeled it misogynist, 90% of DU won't even bother to look into it objectively.

[Saviolo]

9. I'd be inclined to agree with you if...

the actions of gamergaters did not exactly oppose what you're saying.

If they want to have a civil discussion then maybe they should stop the members of their own group who are threatening violence, rape, and murder, harassing people who speak out against these activities, and doxxing queer and trans people. You can say it's about ethics all you like, but if your group's behaviour is anything but ethical, then you have no foundation to start from.

[LostInAnomie]

13. How do you stop random trolls and crazy people? Especially, on the internet.

People can literally post ANYTHING on the internet and there is almost no way to stop them. Most of the of the bigger names in gamergate and the popular gamergate sites have been decrying the attacks from the beginning and telling the people being attacked to call the police. If gamergate really supported the attacks, why would we want the attackers arrested?

Ultimately, gamergaters are against the attacks because it harms our goals and creates a distraction from our goals. We want to end the corruption and cronyism in the gaming journalism industry. Period. The doxxing and threats work don't serve these goals at all. They create undeserved bad will towards gamergate and move the focus of discussion away from corruption.

[Saviolo]

15. It absolutely helps #gamergate

Those violent threats, threats of rape, threats of murder, doxxing, etc... help gamergate a great deal. They provide an environment where a dissenting voice can be counted on to be shouted down in the most violent and ugly way, so it really cuts down on the opposing voices.

Any outside observer would look at GG and see a foundation of slut shaming, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia. Maybe you need to spend more time working on your image and actually doing something about those radical voices from your own group that you're so quick to try to disown.

[LostInAnomie]

19. I know that's the line, but wouldn't someone have to actually be intimidated for it to work?

And, by "actually be intimidated" I real people, not some faceless/nameless group that people anecdotally allude to without evidence.

Simply look to the internet to see the if intimidation was a tactic, if is failing catastrophically. Youtube is awash with anti-gamergate videos. Twitter is awash with anti-gamergate tweets. Online gaming magazines feature anti-gamergate articles daily. Tumblr is overwhelmingly gamergate. Reddit has multiple gamergate subreddits, and is notorious for censoring gamergate posts when it started gaining steam. Hell, we're on DU discussing an anti-gamergate vid, where I am seemingly the only gamergate supporter.

Who is actually being intimidated away from discussing gamergate?

[Saviolo]

23. You can't say people aren't being intimidated

We're talking real life, here. People are having their -real life- home addresses exposed and shared. And if you want an example of someone who was "actually intimidated" then here's why Anita Sarkeesian decided to cancel her speaking engagement in the face of threats to shoot up the school she was speaking at:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58528113-78/sarkeesian-threats-threat-usu.html.csp

And while the letter that they decided to publish regarding the incident didn't use the #gamergate, they have admitted that they received many other letters with similar or the same threats that did bear the hashtag.

If you're saying that people are still saying nasty things online, then I'm sorry, but that's the itnernet. People are going to strike back using the same anonymity that is allowing vicious trolls to threaten rape and murder to fight back against those threats. It's a two-edged sword. But to my knowledge, the anti-gamergate folks aren't the ones threatening gun violence, dismemberment, and rape while at the same time posting -real life- addresses of potential victims.

[LostInAnomie]

28. So, gamergate is responsible for someonethat doesnt even mention gamergate?

That's pretty sound logic there. /s

Actually, you'll never hear it on here, but anti-gamegaters have been pretty prolific with their threats. Prominent anti-gamergaters like Leigh Alexander have threatened to ruin the careers of pro-gamergate journalists. Gawker journalist Sam Biddle has advocated for the bullying of gamergaters. Prominent gamergater Boogie2988 and his wife received death threats. Pro-gamergate journalist Milo Yiannopoulos received death threats and had a syringe sent to his home. Mike Cernovich was doxxed recently at the behest of a very prominent anti-GGer.

I could go on and on, but it wouldn't matter. For some hypocritical reason, the bad acts of trolls and crazy people only count when they happen to anti-gamergaters.

[Saviolo]

32. You've mistaken or misread what I wrote

The -one- letter they decided to publish did not mention gamergate, but they received multiple others at the same time that did for the same event with the same threats. One letter and they would probably have ignored it, but when they received the massive number of threats that they did, they decided to cancel the event.

You've also somehow intuited from my posts that I advocate doxxing or threatening gamergaters. No, I absolutely do not. I'm not surprised that people who are being threatened and doxxed are threatening and doxxing back, but I don't think anyone should have to face that sort of harassment. Also, at least one prominent trans game dev (Kate von Roeder) has committed suicide in part due to the harassment from the trolls that are out there fighting the good fight and doxxing and threatening female game journos and devs for being girls.

[LostInAnomie]

34. Yeah, I read the article you posted.

It said (conveniently in the very last line) that the threat was by an anti-feminist ass hat who is not a gamergater.

No one, and I will repeat, NO ONE is advocating for violence, threats, doxxing, etc. The people that do this are the scum of the Earth and should spent a huge chunk of their life in prison. The thing is, only gamergate is getting tarred with the misdeeds of trolls and crazy people. Even though no one advocates for their activities, and everyone denounces it, the media gives GG the bad press.

Not only does GG get the bad press, but they are given the bad press using the same specious logic that racists use to blame all Ferguson protestors for the acts of a few rioters, or all Muslims for the acts of ISIS. Somehow, in this instance that logic is OK though.

[Saviolo]

36. Spurious

When the people doing the doxxing and threats self-identify as #gamergate, you've got an optics problem. The looters in Ferguson were opportunists who never said, "We're looting in support of Michael Brown!" ISIS does not claim to be the voice of moderate Islam. Yes, people are still tarring everyone with the same brush, but you have a much bigger issue with gamergate when the people doing the vile acts are crying gamergate while they do it.

And again, you point to "the threat" as though there were only one. That was the only one they published.

And when there are articles like this popping up:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/new-chat-logs-show-how-4chan-users-pushed-gamergate-into-the-national-spotlight/

Maybe it's time to look at your own base assumptions and see where your movement really comes from.

[LostInAnomie]

39. I know where the movement really comes from.

Gamergate is just a catchy hashtag for a groundswell of frustration with gaming journalism that gamers have felt for almost a decade. A lot of GGers cite the firing of Jeff Gerstmann for giving low scores to big studio releases as a root cause. Others will point to IGN's Doritogate, where game journalists were tweeting positive things about Halo 4 for game swag and doing promos surrounded by Mt. Dew and Dorito merch. Others will point to the non-game Gone Home getting perfect reviews from journalists personally linked with the developers, and being voted game of the year even though it wasn't even a game. People were already primed to dislike gaming journalism. The events that led to the gamergate hashtag were just a catalyst.

It's funny that Ars Techinca would decry people coordinating to push their angle on a story. They would know what colluding would look like afterall, since their senior gaming editor is a member of "gamejournopro". In case you don't know what that is, it's a group of gaming journalists that were exposed by Milo Yiannopoulos (who later received death threats) for coordinating major gaming publications' response to gamergate. This response was the releasing of 12 articles across all major online gaming publications hitting the same talking point that "gamers were dead" that they were all "violent, white male misogynists" that were theatened by "women in gaming".

Guess what the media narrative of gamergate has been ever since. I'll give you a hint, it has literally been dripping from almost every anti-gamergate post in this thread.

[Saviolo]

40. Well, I'll reiterate

You have a massive optics problem, then.

Because a massive number of people on gamergate boards in various places are all massive assholes spewing violent, racist, homo/transphobic, sexist, and downright disgusting rhetoric. They've also been doing it while waving the banner of gamergate as bold as they can. So if journos are going to report on gamergate, what are they going to see? A bunch of vitriol and a few people saying "It's about ethics in journalism." You look like a small group standing in the middle of a foodfight saying you're not part of it, but guess what, you're covered in food too.

I've seen death and rape threats posted with real home addresses towards women who have any opinion at all about a game, then when someone tells them to shut up, others come in and white knight saying that we shouldn't censor his opinion.

You want people to take you seriously? Everyone using #gamergate should actively call these trolls out instead of defending them, and stop being rape and murder threat apologists. Yeah, I get it, you don't do it, but now you're starting to sound like the MRA #NotAllMen baloney.

[LostInAnomie]

44. It like I am talking to a wall.

Let me ask you, what gamergate boards do you frequent to know what goes on there Because, I'm guessing you've never actually been on one.

The ones I go on have serious any anti-doxxing, anti-swarming, anti-threatening policies where you have posts deleted or be banned for breaking the rules. Most of them will even allow anti-gamergaters on to ask questions they may have.

Gaming journalists are going to focus on the psycopaths because that is howthey want to portray gamergate. Do you really think journalists are going to give an unbiased report on a group pointing out how corrupt journalism is?

[Adrahil]

10. Double Bullshit to you.

GG is not about "ethics" and never has been. It's about pathetic little shit attempting to cover their misogynist little asses in a thin veneer of respectability. It was started by a guy trying to get revenge on his ex by slut-shaming her, and If you look at excepts of how this whole "movement" got started (complete with calling feminists "cunts" and male feminist supports "Betafags&quot , you'll see that they carefully talk about how they have to avoid direct attacks on feminism and instead empahsize the "ethics" angle. Of course, their "ethics" claim falls flat too, when you consider that the original review that was supposed to be at the heart of this "scandal" DOES NOT EXIST.


So, look into it objectively, And be sure to not ignore the death and rape threats delivered in the most vile and violent tones. And be sure to pay attention to how they talk down about "Social Justice Warriors," as if fighting for equality were somehow akin to necrophilia.


Fuck GGers. There is perhaps some Payola happening in the games industry, but this movement did not start out about that, and at the very least, it has the strong whiff of misogyny associated with it.

http://www.donotlink.com/framed?563624

[Ohio Joe]

17. You are correct...

And a whole lot more polite then I would have been.

[kcr]

14. So no group can ever be judged by their actions?

What member of a group is going to come forward and honestly say, Yep! We're a bunch of assholes! Sorry, I think it's pretty safe to call GG what it is.

[NobodyHere]

24. By your logic

Then the Ferguson protesters are nothing but a bunch of looters.

[LostInAnomie]

30. Yep, I guess Muslims are all suicide bombers too.

If your logic hold up, that is.

[el_bryanto]

21. Nothing but some dumb shit? Really?

Maybe you should watch it again and try and understand the argument. While there is a legitimate issue with cronyism in the laughably called game journalism industry, the fact that all of the chief "problems" cited by these groups are woman gives a clear idea of where their head is at.

Bryant

[LostInAnomie]

33. Yep, watched it. It's still shit.

The creator of the video essentially starts with the premise that gamergate is all about misogyny and works backward to make everything fit his argument. Sure, he uses a lot of pseudo-intellectual clap trap and buzz words in there to impress those that are easily impressed, but the whole thing is specious logic piled on specious logic.

Just look at how he handles things that go against his narrative like #notyoushield. #notyourshield is a large group of women and minorities that were tired of gaming journalists using them as a shield to attack the "white male gamers of gamergate" behind. They created the hashtag to let the journalists know that they are tired of the corruption as well.

How did this idiot spin it? By saying the #notyourshield is gamergate's black friend.

[el_bryanto]

38. Yes - a pretty strong argument I'd say.

The misogynist elements of gamergate are using that critique as a cover for their attacks on outsiders, and in order to protect themselves they hold up a not your shield - but if the people in not your shield made any of the same arguments as, say, Anita Sarkasian, they would be condemned as firmly.

The issues around Gamergate are about what are the limits of conversation and critique. You just aren't allowed to point out that the message of some games is misogynist.

Bryant

[LostInAnomie]

41. I would say claiming that women and minorities are sockpuppets...

... dupes, or somehow uninformed about gamergate is an absolutely ignorant argument. Yet, that is essentially what this moron puts forth.

Nope, the issues around gamergate are about cronyism and corruption in gaming journalism. Period. We are not responsible for, nor do we condone the acts of psychopaths.

[el_bryanto]

43. that's pretty myopic

Than why the attacks on Anita Sarkeesian?

Bryant

[LostInAnomie]

45. Personally, I don't like her because she's a hack.

She is basically guilty of doing the exact thing the guy in OPs video did. She starts from the premise that gaming and gamers are sexist/misogynists and works backwards. She does this by cherrypicking evidence while ignoring everything that debunks her assertion. There are literally hours worth of YouTube videos that point this out and how flawed her methods are. The people that support her don't seem to have a problem with it though.

Now, that isn't an excuse for threatening her in any way. The people that make the threats are sacks of shit looking for any excuse. If gamergate wasn't around, it would be something else. Which is largely why it's ridiculous to blame gamergate for their actions. No one is endorsing, promoting, or advocating this behavior. Most gamergate sites have anti-dox/anti-threat policies that are strictly enforced. Every time some asshole psychopath threatens someone, they are decried and denounced. Not only because it's wrong but because it hurts our chances of getting our story of media corruption out.

[bullwinkle428]

7. Felicia Day- the latest actress to receive threats and "doxxing" after

expressing her own concerns about the Gamergate movement.

"In her post, Day explains that, like 18 percent of internet users, she’s experienced her share of severe harassment, and has even had stalkers show up on her doorstep. But that while she is sickened by the stigma and fear GamerGate has had on the community, she encourages everyone to keep gaming."

http://thinkprogress.org/culture/2014/10/23/3583347/felicia-day-gamergate/

[seabeyond]

8. i like how the football dude comes back to say, .... hey cowards. i diss you and nuthin'. a woman

simply states concerns, and doxx. what cowards you all are.

did my heart good.

[Adrahil]

11. Frankly, even if some GGers are really concerned about...

gaming journalism ethics, you'd think their WTF!? meter would go off with all these misogynist asshats coming out of the woodwork. I mean, how can you support any "movement" where people identifying with that movement are threatening rape... with a knife no less.... and murder. Goddamn.... it defies any rational understanding.

[cemaphonic]

16. Damn, are Jennifer Hale and Laura Bailey next?

These idiots won't have any games to play if they chase off all the voice acting talent.

[hifiguy]

18. I doubt that these knuckleheads are

the sharpest knives in anyone's drawer. 'Bout as sharp as a bag of wet mice, in the words of the inimitable Foghorn Leghorn.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

20. Yeah...

Felicia Day speaks out about GamerGate: gets doxxed (50 min later)

Brianna Wu speaks out about GamerGate: gets doxxed, harassed and threatened.

Anita Sarkeesian speaks out about GamerGate: gets doxxed, harassed and threatened.


Wil Wheaton speaks out about GamerGate: doesn’t get doxxed

Chris Kluwe speaks out about GamerGate: doesn’t get doxxed (two days have passed)

Anyone see a pattern here? I sure do.

[hifiguy]

22. i had to google "dox" to find out what it means.

Intensely creepy practice. Live and learn.

[cemaphonic]

12. Yeah, the whole "journalistic integrity" facade is pretty absurd.

Not only is it just about the firstest of First World Problems, videogame journalism has been joined at the hip to marketing and advertising as long as the industry has existed. Anyone who actually cared about the issue would be looking into the relationship between big studios like EA, and the big gaming websites, instead of flipping out over some smalltime basement developer.

[AverageJoe90]

25. Good fuckin' point, man.

And, frankly, as a gamer myself, I full well realize that the gaming press doesn't always do the best job at times. But for fucks' sakes, man. Zoe Quinn was a small-time developer just trying to make a living doing something she loved. You know what I'm starting to wonder, though? I wonder, if perhaps a lot of the nastier "GamerGaters" out there aren't even gamers at all.....but, rather, hardcore TROLLS merely using gaming/gamer culture as a shield for their activities? That would make a LOT of sense when you think about it, as guess where this all started(and, unfortunately, it seems to have worked pretty well, judging from all of what I've read on Twitter, Gawker, etc.)? Fuckin' 4Chan, no less. Troll central.

And it pretty much goes without saying that most gamers, hardcore or casual, are pretty decent people overall, female *or* male.

[Ykcutnek]

29. They are just trolls who happen to play games.

And a lot of the pushback from the gaming community now is a result of them being marginalized for what a virulent minority of gamers do.

A few bad apples are always made to be the face of groups people seek to marginalize.

And I don't think anyone who plays games has a responsibility to come out and denounce the actions of psychopaths who happen to plays games anymore than someone who plays guitar would has to denounce the actions of a psychopath who plays guitar.

[AverageJoe90]

31. Yeah, this, pretty much.

And I don't think anyone who plays games has a responsibility to come out and denounce the actions of psychopaths who happen to plays games anymore than someone who plays guitar would has to denounce the actions of a psychopath who plays guitar.

I see your point, I think. OTOH, it certainly wouldn't hurt, either, though, IMHO.

[DonCoquixote]

26. the elphant in the room

is that games used to be the all boys club, and those times, they are a changing. Amy Henning, thew lady whose "uncharted" franchise saved the Playstation from being a third place medalist behind Nintendo and Microsoft, is back making the star wars games. In Bioshock Infinite, the most praised part was where the former "damsel in distress" took control and fought back. Tomb raider was resdesigned by a Lady designer, and proved that she did not have to be a sex toy to be a money making heroine.

it is the same cliqueishness that plauged the IT tech industry for years, where a bunch of 30-40 year olds thought they could act like 14 year old peter pans because they made the money. Lo and behold, when the same CEOS that encouraged the Frat House environment shipped those jobs to India, many of them were left stranded, and like any bunch of stranded males that never blamed their fellow males, they took it out on women.

[Ykcutnek]

27. Boogie2988 says it well:

[LostInAnomie]

35. Hard to believe an anti-gamergater threatened to kill his wife...

... and doxxed him over that.

[Saviolo]

37. A romantic notion of gamers

I don't know, though. He talks about how inclusive and loving the gaming community is. I used to be a pretty serious gamer (to be fair, this was a few years back), and when I was playing CS:Source on public servers and D2 or StarCraft on Battle.net, I received and saw a lot of abuse. Especially with games like CounterStrike: Source, and Half Life 2 deathmatch games... if I was on an unmoderated server, the -norm- was to be called a fag every time I killed someone. At least once or twice a game, I would also see stuff like "You jewed me, you nigger." and other such racist taunts.

Sometimes these people were called on it, but usually, it was high-fives all around, dude, you totally schooled that noob. Now, being actually gay, I could often set them off their game by saying "Yup! Sure am!" when they call me a fag, but they sure didn't love and accept me. In fact, I got booted from public servers for saying it, 'cause I was "causing a disruption."

There are many many many individuals in the gaming community that are inclusive and loving and welcome, but the culture as a whole is homophobic, transphobic, sexist, and racist. Thank you to people like Boogie2988 for working against that, but please be aware of what you're actually working against. Teenage trolls who have discovered anonymity on the internet and find it fun to get a rise out of someone will take long strides to get that rise, hoping to offend as many as they can, and until they're called out and stripped down for when it happens, it will not get better.

[Dwayne Hicks]

42. You know what

This seems like the tea party of gamers. Rabid misogynists who want to "take back their games". Of course under the guise of gaming developers and gaming journalism "ethics".