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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWAIT! So FDP Officer Wilson, whos ILLEGALLY refusing to make a report for fear of being incriminated
... (because you know, he was following procedures as he usually does /sarcasm)
.... has more credibility on a "progressive' board ....with some people ...........than 4 - 8 different individuals of different hues, different backgrounds, etc and who stories corroborate 90%-ish of each other!?!?!?
OoooooooooooooooKaaaaaaay...
Tell me how DU is "NOT" being rat freaked to a certain degree?
Thx for reading and your input
edited to include who wilson is
= new reply since forum marked as read
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dlwickham
(3,316 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I don't know about the rest of it, DU being ratfucked, etc.
Unless this is about Seahawk Russell Wilson.
I'm confused.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)
Kingofalldems
(38,454 posts)If it's what I think you are talking about.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I would think that a progressive board would know that
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)
daleanime
(17,796 posts)
(When the report is to the government)
gordianot
(15,237 posts)It would be interesting to see what he said and how that changed over time. Not knowing there is a good chance he did file a Police report so far that has not been asked that I am aware and has not been leaked to the Press. Maybe the Grand Jury itself and Prosecution needs to be investigated prejudicial leaks.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)An accurate report would require him to admit he murdered someone.
An inaccurate report wouldn't, but would make him guilty of perjury.
So the government really can't go after him for a blank report, unless there is no possibility of him being charged with a crime.
The report that has been produced so far is blank. And that's probably what he filed - his lawyer told him to.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)I'm not sure how it works at the state level. One can file a "Right to Know" claim against any government employee. A citizen can find out how much a government employee makes, for instance, and submit a "freedom of information act" request force this information to be public. Again, I'm not sure how it works at the state level.
starroute
(12,977 posts)Back in August, I posted a link to this site: http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1723&issue_id=22009
It discusses exactly these kinds of situations, and though the discussion isn't as clear at it might be, this is the paragraph that seems most relevant:
"Accordingly, officers may claim a Fifth Amendment privilege only in the narrow circumstance where they have been required to waive the privilege under duress and there is at least the prospect that the statement obtained under that circumstance would be introduced in a criminal proceeding against them. In addition, the privilege applies only to those statements that could actually be self-incriminating; other nonincriminating but relevant parts of a compelled interview may still be admissible in criminal proceedings against officers. Thus, for instance, there may be a wide range of questions that agencies may ask of officers that are relevant to and useful for the 'what happened' inquiry that would not be self-incriminating in the constitutional sense; thus, agencies may require their officers to answer them."
If I'm reading it right, this seems to say that Wilson could not have been compelled to report anything that could be self-incriminating, but that he did have a requirement to file a bare-bones account of the situation to the extent that it would not incriminate him. He did not do that.
Somebody at that scene had to file a report. Wilson was not required to be that officer, and in most departments after an incident like this the senior officer who responded files the report.
When 12 officers are involved in a call, only 1 makes a report and if relevant includes statements from other officers. And it is not always the first on scene or the most involved.
starroute
(12,977 posts)It's not a matter of first or most involved. Wilson was the only one there. It seems to have taken 3-4 minutes for any other officers to show up. So at the very least, one of those officers should have gotten a statement from Wilson and filed the report. That didn't happen.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)The claim is Wilson violated the law by not filing a report- not a valid claim.
From what I have seen he did make a statement to the County PD who investigated, but when they released the report it was redacted because the investigation is ongoing.
Do you have a reliable source saying he refused to make any statements?
starroute
(12,977 posts)The fact of an ongoing investigation doesn't seem to allow them to refuse to release the full report. And because of the 5th Amendment claims, it's not clear that Wilson ever gave a statement.
http://news.yahoo.com/ferguson-releases-incomplete-police-report-on-death-of-michael-brown-221844542.html
A police report on the death of Michael Brown is missing key information and violates Missouri open records laws, an ACLU attorney told Yahoo News on Friday.
The two-page document, which the Ferguson Police Department released only after pressure from journalists and civil liberties advocates, is largely redacted or left blank. The most egregious omissions are the victim’s name and a description of the offense — the fatal shooting of Brown.
“They are breaking the law,” said Tony Rothert, legal director of the ACLU of Missouri.
The report, obtained by Yahoo News through the Missouri Sunshine Law, lists only the date, time and location. Fields for the type of incident, name of the complainant, and a summary of the circumstances are redacted. . . .
Missouri’s Sunshine Law states law enforcement agencies must promptly provide incident reports that include, among other things, “name of the victim and immediate facts and circumstances surrounding the initial report of a crime or incident.”
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)But no proof or even claim there that Wilson did with a report.
Big difference.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Since he basically can't work in St. Louis even if he's cleared, it's probably not a problem for him.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)appearing in an American court of law. But the OP's point is that many people on DU are giving Wilson more credibility (despite his official silence thus far) than the consistent reports of multiple eyewitnesses who corroborate one another's accounts independently.
You're engaging in deflection.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)It's a tactic used very often in politics. Are the facts given relevant to the question? If not, then they're deflection. Listen to any politician, being spoken to by any talking head, and chances are strong within the span of even a couple of minutes, the politician will have started deflecting, and often by giving facts that aren't actually relevant.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)
riqster
(13,986 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)He seems to have candidly told a story to a 'witness' who then leaked it to the press. Whether it's true or not, when you start telling people things, I don't see how that counts as 'remaining silent'.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 23, 2014, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)
it's being half-ass slick. He, his counsel and buddies in blue know exactly what they are doing. I don't think it's damage-control any longer. I think this is an intentional "bring up to let down" release of fucking information to prepare people for him walking clear the fuck away.
lob1
(3,820 posts)
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)after all and isn't that often standard procedure for most people, to check for alcohol and/or drugs after a fatal 'accident' or a killing?
Anyone know if Wilson had a drug habit, I know a few cops who do, or a drinking problem which could lead to the kind of terrible, deadly decision he made?
And if there are no records of this why aren't there? I think that should be standard in all cop shootings frankly.
It certainly is for civilians even when THEY are the VICTIMS of these all too familiar now, deadly encounters with cops.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)speculation about Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald in Fatal Vision for how a seemingly upstanding citizen can turn into a raging homicidal maniac at the drop of a hat based on the consumption of certain illicit mood-altering subtances.
Wilson certainly paced around like a hopped up coke head for quite awhile after he killed MB, as the various video clips show.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)That or the guy is just a complete dick who has no business being a cop.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Police officers are routinely tested for any illegal substances after a police-involved shooting.
By the way, there's a lot more to the MacDonald story than possible barbiturate abuse. Investigations over time have proven that he was a douchebag long before he killed his family, and he remains a heartless, sociopathic douchebag to this day.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)MacDonald, it's been ages since I read the book (a tour de force, I might add), but IIRC MacDonald was taking some sort of diet pill, i.e., an amphetamine, and not a barbiturate. I'll bet he wishes he had taken a barbiturate that night.
Meth or speed would explain why someone hopped up on them could go from 0 to 60 on the rage meter in the blink of an eye.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I don't know where I came up with barbiturate. I just saw this book in our bedroom this afternoon, but I haven't read it in a really long time. I did read McGuinness's Final Justice last year. There's no doubt in my mind that MacDonald was guilty.
As for Officer Wilson, I'm sure he was tested, but I think the results are confidential unless they must be used in criminal proceedings.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)be sure I mentioned Janet Malcolm's seminal two-part essay in The New Yorker that analyses the evolving relationship between McGinniss and MacDonald and casts the former in a somewhat unflattering light.
I can't seem to find a non-paywall link to Malcolm's essay, so am including a link to the Wiki entry about it. Malcolm's essay is awesome meta-journalism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Journalist_and_the_Murderer
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I also read Fatal Justice, which was very pro-MacDonald.
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)An article that came out around the time of the shooting tells how he called them and said he wouldn't be in that Saturday night. Question is, did he work the night before and how many hours was he "up" when he came upon Brown and Johnson? What was he using so he could stay awake that many hours?
Second: he was so enraged at the young men for not "obeying his order" to "get the fuck off the street" that he almost backed his vehicle into them. This calls into question either his mental health or the fact that he might have been using some substance that produced that rage.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)If not, he's been PAID to write that report. And if he cashed the check and didn't do what he was paid to do, we have additional criminal charges entering the discussion.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)When a police officer was involved in a traffic accident here the officer involved did not write the accident report. And that only involved about 5k in damages.
In fact if the report was written by wilson, that would be a bigger scandal. Wilson would have been interviewed for the report but he has the right to answer or not answer any question.
strawberries
(498 posts)and if I were a betting man I would say he already wrote the report. They can't leave their shift until it is done
Funny how that didn't get leaked out.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)Filed on August 20 (Brown was killed on August 9) It says nothing.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/237504285/CARE-Incident-Report
strawberries
(498 posts)I was married to a cop years ago. I remember him calling me up saying he was going to be late because there was an issue and he had to file a report.
Maybe it was part of his cheating on me.
Travelman
(708 posts)That report is from the Saint Louis County PD. Wilson works for the Ferguson PD.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... they left it blank.
By Default Wilson is saying he did something wrong in the process of killing another human by NOT filing a report
Travelman
(708 posts)Now you're just making things up.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Care to cite the law that backs up you claims? Specific code please.
Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)they'll make up a law if they want to charge you with something, and they'll ignore any and every law if they're determined not to.
In this case I'm sure something like "misappropriation of public funds" is on the books somewhere, and there's always "obstruction of justice" which can be applied to anyone, anywhere.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Wilson is currently on mandatory, involuntary leave. If he were to come back and write a report, he wouldn't be on leave anymore.
Also, this case is under legal review. I am quite positive that an attorney is running Darren Wilson's life at the moment. He doesn't speak to anyone, doesn't go shopping, doesn't go to movies, doesn't do anything. Absolutely nothing good (from Wilson's perspective) can come from Darren Wilson doing anything whatsoever that may appear on the news, get posted to twitter, anything. This will include speaking with law enforcement about the case.
As soon as an officer is involved in a shooting, he lawyers up and shuts his mouth. This almost always happens at the scene, and his cop buddies will just assume that he's not going to speak without talking to an attorney.
Not properly filling out any paperwork (if this is even Wilson's fault), is a minor issue and will probably be addressed once the legal case has concluded.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)Everyone who takes an extra five minutes on their break should now be brought up on criminal charges...
They cashed the check when they didn't do what they were paid to do...
Sometimes I think folks here have no concept of the American criminal justice system at even the most basic level.
ncjustice80
(948 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)
onecaliberal
(32,852 posts)He is legally responsible to file a report. If he can't or won't do that he should be fired.
IMO he's a lying murdering ratfucker who should be in jail.
brush
(53,776 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:08 PM - Edit history (1)
but we all know he was supposed to file an incident report.
And many of us suspect the blue wall wagons were circled around him and he was advised to not filed a report that might be contradicted later — much better for all to take time to concoct a story that all agree on.
You have to know there is no excuse for not filing a report, unless you have something to hide.
onecaliberal
(32,852 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)in effect when a person has been charged or indicted. I don't think he has.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Exceptions can made, if somebody is given full immunity they can be required to testify.
This happens sometimes when they give a low level drug dealer immunity since they are a lot more interested in going after the higher level drug dealer.
hack89
(39,171 posts)and I doubt it was illegal.
It certainly was done deliberately to save his ass. If nothing else, it let the PD spin the press and story the way they wanted it to go.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)a deadly shooting like this. I have heard nothing about his state of reasoning, which seemed to be way off that day, only the victim's.
I hope there are records of his drug/alcohol content if any as many cops do drink and do drugs. That might explain the horrific numbers of deaths by cop in this country.
hack89
(39,171 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... and to me there's no incrimination if he did nothing wrong ... he didn't even go outside of procedure...
per his defenders (which IMHO... there shouldn't be any)...
The issue here is he shot at someone from the back... that's ALSO illegal unless there was a threat to him or others....
I don't think he should have a shread of credibility .. NOTHING coming out of anything that supports his position should be considered without a block of salt...
seeing... he at the least thinks he did something wrong in the process of killing someone
hack89
(39,171 posts)I thought the reporting requirement was a Ferguson PD administrative requirement. I could be wrong.
Wilson murdered him - don't get me wrong.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... stupid ass'd attorney who in this case SHOULD be doin him a disservice telling him to keep the incident report empty and "filed" (with nothing in it) but there's enough people believing even the slightest bullshit from Wilson perspective even though Wilson has NOT made any official claims.
Wilson murdered him - don't get me wrong.
Yeap, now there are report of the gunshut power (forgot what it's called) on Browns white side of hand... he put his hand in the way of the gunshot from the car...
poor freakin kid...
hack89
(39,171 posts)I am not following what crime he committed in regards to his statement.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)the premise of the OP is that Wilson broke a law by not filing a proper police report. I understand all the details of the report - I am just trying to find out why it was illegal.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... is not to murder people.
hack89
(39,171 posts)are you referring to the Missouri FOIA? It specifically says that police reports become public records only when the investigation becomes inactive. The Brown case is still active.
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C600-699/6100000100.HTM
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Filing that report is admitting a crime to the government. 5th amendment means he doesn't have to.
Yes, he is a murderer. But he can't be required to help prove it.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... therefore he COULD not be self incriminating....
If he did NOT follow on the rules during the process of killing someone then he should go to jail...
I don't see how the 5th protects oneself from an official standard... this is the opposite of an outside in inquery...
The actions should be known to everyone
jeff47
(26,549 posts)If he lies on the report in order to claim he followed procedure and acted in self-defense, then he could file the report....and then be prosecuted for lying on it.
Yes he should. But he can't be forced to confess.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... free no matter what.
I did NOT follow the rules = I can hide behind the 5th...
Just can't see how anyone can openly say this guy ... sigh
jeff47
(26,549 posts)But legally we have to go through the absurdity of insisting that not filing the report is not an admission of guilt.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He is standing in the way of the investigation and withholding evidence of a crime committed under his watch. If he is using his lack of filing a report as a way to cover up his crimes, while using the power of his badge to do so, he is committing a crime. He is using his position as a police officer to cover up a murder. And he is being assisted by the department.
hack89
(39,171 posts)but if he did it under the advice of a lawyer, I suspect it might be more complicated than we think.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This turns into a whole different type of crime. It appears they are working together to massage the evidence and leak only certain details. Notice nothing leaked was unfavorable to him? And it was always from his perspective? Who is leaking it? Whoever it is works closely with the department and getting the information from him.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I agree that the leaks are all pro-Wilson. They don't require his participation, just some supporters with access to the grand jury information.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And i hate the way leaks are, half the time leaked stuff was false and we have to backtrack. People love repeating false info over and over until everyone believes it. Later we find it was bullshit .
hack89
(39,171 posts)Playing with people's emotions in a case like this is asking for trouble.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Playing with our emotions. This is a game they play all the time. It's old and we're worn out.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)As is anyone else who asserts their 5th amendment rights.
No, he's just not required to confess to it, just like any other suspect.
The guy needs to be thrown in prison, but he can't be required to confess.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Someone is leaking his version of a report that he filed blank. If there is another version of the report that is filled in with the information leaked, then he deliberately filed a blank report when there was a filled one available. That's tampering. His version keeps getting leaked, has been since before the grand jury. Someone is also leaking the grand jury info in such a way as to only release things favorable ti him. That someone may be conspiring with him. I want to know who it is and how they are connected and if he is leaking his own grand jury testimony.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)His claims keep getting leaked. The report is blank.
Yep, if someone is attempting to help cover it up, they should be prosecuted too.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... this is the case of an officer on duty following procedure ...
That procedure should be outlined... he went outside the outline in the process of killing someone unnecessarily = go to jail... the oversight alone means he shouldn't be able to hide behind the 5th...
shouldn't... I'm not a lawyer
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... of a federal investigation by filing a blank incident report.
That's ONE of the reasons why there's been NOTHING official from the Wilson camp
hack89
(39,171 posts)in this case, the Missouri FOIA applies - and as I have shown you before, police reports can only be released once the investigation is closed.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Q. Can I use FOIA to review documents from my state government?
A. No. FOIA only applies to agencies of the federal government (note this means it also does not apply to Congress or the Judicial branch). It does not allow you to get information from state or local governments. However, most state and local governments are covered by state public records laws.Also, keep in mind that because state and local governments frequently consult or collaborate with the federal government on projects, you can often use FOIA to review information which originated with non-federal entities but which is now in the possession of federal government.
There was an article on KOS on the issue...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/22/1323712/-The-missing-Ferguson-PD-Incident-Report-on-the-death-of-Michael-Brown-omg#
hack89
(39,171 posts)some how I doubt it.
In any case, what does it have to do with Wilson? It was not a federal case when he delayed filing his report.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... FPD is now charging outrages fees for these files as they obfuscate...
They have NOT ONE OUNCE of credibility
hack89
(39,171 posts)ok.
branford
(4,462 posts)FOIA and its state equivalents also do not impose any obligation on Wilson to file a police report. Although it may be proper procedure, and subject to union rules and protections, 5th Amendment issues, etc, be grounds for internal discipline, it imposes no criminal penalties, state or federal.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)Of certain records, among those incident reports:
http://ago.mo.gov/pdf/MissouriSunshineLaw.pdf
The ACLU sued for the incident report and then sued again when the redacted report was released:
https://www.aclu.org/aclu-response-ferguson
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)A FOIA request only is for EXISTING documents.
I cannot and does not compel the creation of any document.
For a random example, let's say I am a government official, and a reporter wants to know if I had lunch or contact with a lobbyist.
They can file a FOIA request for any and all communications and documents related to me and that lobbyist. If I emailed them or mentioned them in an email, that would be released.
If I did not, a FOIA would bring nothing. And the FOIA can't compel me to create a document listing contact or give any info beyond what was already in records.
Rex
(65,616 posts)supporting Wilson are anything but fakes and just like the Martin case, I will be proven right. The wannabe cops come flooding out to support the killing of unarmed black kids...if you look in the archives a pattern emerges.
DU is being rat freaked over a number of topics and the people doing it think they are clever but are very transparent.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)unarmed black children.
And those same supporters here on DU automatically give the killers the benefit of the doubt while the dead have no voice because...well...they're fucking dead! No one to speak for them! So the DU cheerleaders who always seem to side the armed cops/wanna-be cops no matter what and will argue to the death to speak up for them will claim that "we must wait until ALL the facts come out".
Of course "ALL THE FACTS" can't come out because the one person who will give the alternative scenario is DEAD!
savalez
(3,517 posts)He has not yet filed a police report?
hack89
(39,171 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)...the last I read about it
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Not to mention unnamed sources that spoke to him have more credibility than ANY witnesses. Nobody but Wilson saw a bum rush. But, just because the coroner wrote that that's what Wilson said happened, it's just taken as fact. The witnesses indicate he was surrendering and on his way down. Which makes sense. Bum-rushing only sounds good if you are Darren Wilson or someone who wants to believe shit that makes no sense to make themselves feel better about believing bullshit.
hack89
(39,171 posts)having served on a grand jury before, I was surprised how widely the witness accounts differed for what appeared to be a very simple crime. It got hard when two witnesses contradicted each other - we had to turn to physical evidence to see which account it supported.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)We don't even know if these secret other witnesses they have even exist since we have gotten no real documentation other than the coroner report. All of the other stuff is stuff some unidentified anonymous source said. I tend to like to wait for the person to say it out loud and not through anonymous channels. None of the witnesses we have heard from said anything about bum-rushing. That stuff is from Darren Wilson and his anonymous leakers.
hack89
(39,171 posts)lets hope the grand jury has some integrity and will be objective.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I think we need to hear everything. There is just too much info being hidden and leaked and suppressed. It's so suspicious. My spidey senses are going bananas.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I am not sure if that is the norm though.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I'd like to see how the DA presented the case.
branford
(4,462 posts)The Washington Post article summarizes just a fraction of this purported evidence.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html
We have been promised copies of the grand jury transcripts, regardless of whether they issue an indictment. It should be most enlightening reading.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It should make for interesting discussion, no doubt. To have been a fly on the wall in there, i'd have given up something good.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)the public has finally had enough. What we do know is, a teenager is DEAD. We are told, same thing with Trayvon Martin, that he had 'marijuana' in his system. OMG! He deserved to die then?
Here's what I want to know. What did the killer cop have in HIS system?? Was he drinking, smoked a few joints (probably not, that might have calmed him down actually) or a little coke with his cop buddies?
I sure hope the COP was given a toxicology tests. The victim is dead, he hurt no one. The killer is here, he could hurt someone else. So why are you being given toxicology reports on the VICTIM and NOT on the cop who might have been drinking, which would explain to some extent the awful, deadly decision he made that day. Not excuse it of course since no cop with these weapons should be drinking on the job.
I think we need to start asking for that information. They are trying to distract from the fact that a teenager is dead. Let's NOT let them do that.
Show us the cops toxicology report and if one was not done, WHY NOT?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I swear you read my mind. You and I are not the only ones who want to know if the cop was jacked up on something. I mean, all of that overreaction and fear and aggression had to come from somewhere. Yelling and cursing at kids in the street? I always drive slow in the neighborhoods and never do I yell foul language at anyone walking too slow for me. I just go around them. They usually move once they shut up long enough to notice me. His behavior from start to finish was strange and angry.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... when I was playing ball.
Coolest dudes off the field but during practice and a game they were powder kegs... wanting to fight everything...
tons of energy
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And cops have plenty of access to drugs. More than the average person.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)always react to the now expected info that the 'victim had pot in his system'. Either trying to defend it, that is the goal, to put people on the defensive, or trying to use it as an excuse.
Instead people need to ask for the cops' toxicology report. Because the truth is, IF they wanted to ensure the police were doing the job they are supposed to do, they WOULD want to know what actually drives these killings. Most of which should never have ended with the death of the victim. A rational person could have handled that situation without killing someone.
So yes, it is a very important question. So sick of the 'he did pot' response as if that has any relevance to why he was shot.
randys1
(16,286 posts)were fired?
HELP
I am serious, what am I missing?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I have seen things saying from 35 to 85 feet. We need the crime scene photos and reports to make a determination of the distances. We need a trial.
randys1
(16,286 posts)Here is how simple this is
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/09/10/ac-dnt-kaye-new-michael-brown-witness.cnn.html
Watch these two out of towners react to an execution
The right and the GJ is going to say that since Brown may have reached for the gun (duh, if that prick was about to shoot me I would reach for it too) that he then deserved to be executed.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Ever checked out the gungeon?
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Here's a mailer, that I, registered Democrat, got from the Kansas Democratic Party about the legislative candidate in my district.
It says
"Supports the expansion of the VA, the expansion efforts of the Federal Prison, as well as the Lansing Correctional Facilities - which provide jobs for many residents ..."
"Member of the NRA who supports the 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms"
Of course, about six years ago this candidate was a registered Republican, but this is now her 2nd run for the legislature as a Democrat. And THAT is part of how the KDP promotes her - even to registered Democrats.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)But he testified before the grand jury, so wouldn't that be the same thing?
And who are these 4-8 witnesses?
Admittedly I have not read EVERY story about Ferguson, and the ones I do read, often seem fact deficient. I read one here a day or two ago that stated that Brown was 100 feet away from Wilson when shot. I asked when that had been established as fact, and heard nothing back.
As for what has credibility with whom. It's not about Wilson or witnesses for me, it is about stories that make sense. The story "Brown attacked Wilson through the car window" makes sense over the alternative "Wilson tried to pull Brown through the car window".
Some were quick to jump on the story that "Brown was shot in the back" which later turned out to not be true.
The facts of "how far away was Brown when he was shot" and "what was he doing?" have not been made clear. Certainly I have not even HEARD Wilson's story on that, to be able to call it credible or not. Nor have I heard from many other witnesses, other than the now discredited Johnson.
Presumably witness testimony under oath before the grand jury is more valuable than witness testimony to the media.
And oh no, it is some kind of rat coitus when there is disagreement on DU.
Would somebody please take those heretics to room 101 and have rats chew their faces off until they recant?
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... the city of Ferguson is only replying in law not in spirit due to Wilson not filing an incident report WITH something in it
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)conform to that requirement, he was trying to hide something, get his 'story' straight, or for some reason was advised not to write what actually happened as it would not perhaps, 'look good'. The truth doesn't change. A report that comes months after the event, is not credible. Especially in a case that is controversial.
I heard from the first two witnesses who did not know each other but told almost identical stories. Brown was not attacking the officer, he was running away from him. Both reported that before all the media hype. Both stated he was facing the officer trying to raise his hands when he was shot, neither said he was shot in the back.
The Grand Jury ONLY hear's from prosecution witnesses, their job is to do what the Prosecutor wants them to do. It is among the most abused parts of our judicial system, so nothing coming out of this GJ means all that much.
The prosecutor himself is someone who should have recused himself as he was asked to do.
Frankly when it comes to these all too frequent 'death by cop' killings, I personally do not care if a victim has some pot in his/her system. So does a large portion of the population. Did the cop have any in his system? I sure hope he was tested too for alcohol and drugs after the shooting.
The facts we have are, a teenager is dead. A cop killed him. His body was left on the street for over four hours. An apology has finally been made to the parents for that horrible treatment of a dead teenager.
We also know from the Police Chief that the cop did not know about the incident at the convenience store when he stopped the teenagers who were walking down the street.
We also know that the cop was formerly a member of a PD that was disbanded and from which almost all the cops were let go, including this cop. A few were retained to serve in the new Dept, but not THIS cop.
We don't know if the cop was intoxicated or under the influence of drugs. We don't know why he was not rehired in his old job.
Now we're getting 'leaked' info from the GJ which is all one-sided, as expected from a GJ. The Defense is not allowed to present evidence to a GJ.
But the most important fact we do know is that another, young, Black man is dead at the hands of the police. And that is not acceptable, or should not be. It doesn't happen in other countries, are their police more competent? Are ours too frightened to qualify for the job they have been entrusted with? Is killing always the only option for them?
Frankly no matter what 'details' we are given to try to discredit the victim, in the end it is the big picture that should concern all Americans. The incredible number of civilians that are killed by the Civilian Police forces in this country every year and the growing total lack of confidence in the police not just in the African American community.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)HAD robbed a store, even if the cop didn't know about it, and he DID, very likely, attack the cop.
Doesn't mean he should have been shot from thirty feet away.
Yet you seem to be going to great lengths trying to discredit the cop.
Here's what I see in a big picture. Here's a kid who was recently shot, an innocent black kid. http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article3081936.html
It's not a big story though, because shootings like this are far too common to make national news. We have an armed population with some parts of that population shooting at other parts. Quite often it is cops who have to deal with these armed criminals. Sometimes they get attacked and shot at as well.
So I am not all that shocked that a number of "civilians" get killed. It's part of our violent society.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)That the victim had robbed the store is your first point. What you are trying to get across is that the criminal got what he deserved.
Now, as far as going to great lengths to "discredit the cop" let me ask you this. How much length should we go in order to find the truth? Apparently, we're going just too far, as we are being mean to the cop.
Let me ask you another question. What does a drive by shooting in which a child was killed in Kansas City, on the other side of the state, have to do with the death of Michael Brown? Other than an effort to distract the people I mean.
Let's go ahead and deal with the propaganda shall we? The police do not have a dangerous job. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf
97 Law Enforcement officers died in 2013. That puts them further down on the list than a large number of people. http://criminologycareers.about.com/od/Career_Trends/a/Dangers-In-Criminal-Justice-Careers.htm
So it's far more dangerous to be a fisherman, a logger, and I could go on, and on, and on. The point is that it is not that dangerous to be a cop. Especially if you were somehow able to eliminate those 34 roadway deaths, you know the ones that happened because the cops don't like to wear seatbelts. If we could get the cops to wear seatbelts, it would be safer to be a cop than an office worker.
By comparison, more than a four hundred people are killed by police every years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2014
So it is at least four times more dangerous to interact with a police officer than it is to be one. (Yes I know, I really murdered the math. but the point is that four times as many people die, and we don't know how many exactly, than police officers who die)
So any other excuses or distractions that we should know about? Hey, since we're talking about children who are killed in drive by shootings. How about a baby that was damn near killed and scarred for life by a SWAT team? http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/us/georgia-toddler-stun-grenade-no-indictment/
I mean, the big picture concerning children is your goal isn't it?
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Some people are all upset that Brown got killed by a cop. Why shouldn't people be more upset about a dead six year old? Why should I care any more about Mike Brown, who I think assaulted a cop and a store manager, that I do about Angel?
You mention 400 people killed by cops. Uh huh and what about the 14,800 homicides that happened in 2012? You know civilians killed by other civilians. And presumably we hire cops to arrest those murderers. Perhaps some of the murderers try to kill the cops in order to keep from going to prison. If the cops kill a murderer or a rapist or even an armed robber, it's too bad, but not THAT bad.
I mean, I would rather see an armed robber get arrested, tried, goto jail, turn their life around and make a positive impact on the world. But at the same time, I'd rather see a dead armed robber than a dead cop (in general).
84,376 forcible rapes in the US, but never mind that - only COPS are the problem in our country. 354,000 robberies, 760,000 aggravated assaults, almost 9 million property crimes.
But goddamit, crime is just a distraction, trying to keep people from hating cops. Or hating Wilson. 400 people were killed by cops, so never mind 760,000 aggravated assaults.
Well, as far as I am concerned, if somebody is assaulting me, I would not mind at all if a cop came along and killed them.
Of course, cops tend to be like supervisors. There's never one around when you need one (when you are being assaulted, raped, or threatened) and there's always one around when you don't (like when you are driving down the road without a seatbelt on, or have dogs in your car).
No, the point is NOT that you are "being mean to Wilson". The point is that, it seems to me that an attempt was made to make a circumstantial case. Speculating about his past, does not change any of the actual FACTS of what happened when Brown was shot.
And you say it is propaganda to think that police have a dangerous job. Yet they are 10th among all occupations. 10th isn't exactly 97th most dangerous job. And that does not measure the number of times they are shot, shot at, or otherwise attacked in the course of their work.
I tend to think that 400 people, most of them probably violent criminals, killed by cops - is the distraction, compared to the much larger number of people - 14,800 killed by other Americans. Angel, for example, was clearly an innocent victim. Not a distraction to me, but a heartbreaking tragedy. The big picture includes a whole lot of other victims.
But God forbid she (or they) somehow take attention away from Michael Brown.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)I can only assume you're part of the brotherhood of the badge. Or you're someone who doesn't want to believe your friend, brother, husband, son, wife, daughter, or mother is doing all the horrible things that are posted about cops on so many websites. You want to believe the fiction of the thin blue lie.
So what is the difference? The case of Angel will remain open, perhaps forever, but there is a fair chance that the person who murdered that little girl will be judged by a jury. There is little chance that Michael Brown's killer will ever be judged by a jury. There is even less chance that the multiple offenses committed by the police daily will ever see the inside of the courtroom, except to punish those victims of the crime.
You see, that is a part of the difference. Let's say someone random on the street bashes me in the noggin and steals my wallet. I go to the hospital, get some stitches, presuming I live, make phone calls to everyone under the sun to shut down credit cards etc. I file a police report, and I then go about trying to put things back together. It takes a day or so to get things started. Perhaps another day in the hospital while my concussion is taken care of. Expensive sure, but I have insurance so that takes care of some of it.
Now, let's say I am brutalized by the police who pummel me while I am surrendering, or after I have handcuffs on. What happens then? It starts out the same, hospital to have my wounds acknowledged, if I'm lucky. Then I get to go to jail, and a courtroom, and then potentially years in prison, for assaulting an officer's hand with my head. Talk about adding insult to injury. Then my life is ruined. I can't get a decent job because I have a criminal record. I can't really rejoin society because nobody trusts an ex convict. When it's the word of a cop versus the word of a citizen, the jury made up of folks like you who figure I must have done something to deserve it, I'm going to jail. Simple as that.
So how often to the police use excessive or unnecessary force? Half the time. HALF. When the police started wearing cameras, the use of force dropped by more than fifty percent. That proves that statically speaking (accurately extrapolated unlike the tongue in cheek response above) half of the people who are beaten, tasered, pepper sprayed, or shot should not have been.
A robbery is bad, a beating is bad. But to pay for the beating for the rest of your life because a gang lied to cover up the crime, that is much worse wouldn't you agree?
What makes the scandal of the priests who abuse children so bad? Is it the abuse of the children that is the issue? Yes, partially. What makes it worse is that the person who did it was one you trusted implicitly. This is a servant of God who abused you. Then it gets worse, the church covers it up, moving the priest to another location, where the horrific act is repeated, in many cases several times. The priest is to blame, and the church is certainly to blame. They did not act to protect the innocent children, they acted to protect the church, and the offender. Unthinkable in my mind.
I said that the cops were a gang. They are. They tolerate no dissent, lie with impunity, protect each other against all of "us". They lie and cheat on the littlest thing. I mean, if they can't follow the rules on a traffic ticket, why should I believe them when they are offering testimony about something more important?
The police are career criminals. They lie, cheat, steal, and profit from it under the color of law.
The difference is that if I commit those crimes, and since I'm not in the brotherhood of the badge, I get caught, and go to jail. Even if I don't commit the crimes, the police can manufacture evidence and convince a jury full of folks like yourself who are happy to convict me satisfied that I must have done something to get arrested. Having the police abuse the citizens, commit those crimes under the color of law, and escape any penalty, is akin to having the Mafia as your neighborhood enforcers. Yeah, they'll make sure that anybody else who steals from you or assaults you get's punished, but the mafia themselves will never be held accountable for stealing or assaulting or even murdering you.
There is no excuse. None for the police to behave this way. There is no excuse as to why they are not held to the highest possible standard. There is no reason why we should not demand that the police be of the highest moral character, and held accountable for their actions. There is every reason why we should demand just that.
Some time ago, I suggested some reforms that were desperately needed by the police forces. I'll go ahead and highlight them here if you don't mind.
1) Mandatory polygraph testing of the police every six months. The officer must be able to pass this test in order to maintain employment and status as a police officer. The questions would be easy enough. Have you lied under oath in the last six months. Have you lied on a police report in the last six months. Have you used excessive force in the last six months. Have you failed to report anyone who has done any of those things in the last six months?
Less than a dozen questions, half an hour max. If they can't pass the polygraph, they're not arrested, nor are they charged with any crime. They just don't get to have the badge and gun. I'll even sweeten the pot. Let's say the cop is having a bad day, problems at home, whatever. He flunks the test. He's not even fired then. He's rescheduled for another test in two weeks. This way the officer can sort out whatever has him upset, and pass the test and return to work.
We polygraph people all the time, for security clearances in the Government as one example. If you have a top secret clearance, if you are trusted with that material, and you flunk the polygraph. You just aren't allowed back into the secure areas ever again. Why should the authority, the power of the police be treated any differently than the authority to examine top secret materials?
2) Charge the police who lie to protect the officers who are using excessive force. In the links above you'll find cases where an officer was charged for assaulting a citizen for no reason. In both cases the citizen was charged for assaulting an officer. In both cases, there were other cops around. You know and I know they all wrote reports, and signed those reports under penalty of perjury. When those lies are exposed, why aren't the cops charged with the crime of perjury, fired, and barred from ever working as a cop again?
If one is caught, usually on video, and is actually fired. Then all those who covered up for him should be punished too. The death of Angel is a tragic event. I certainly want the guilty to be tried and convicted according to the rules. Most importantly, I want the actual guilty, not a handy guy who the cops just came across to do the time for a crime he did not commit.
I still say your effort at distracting with the tragic death of a six year old girl was just that. An effort at distraction. To show that the cops aren't that bad. No, they aren't that bad. They're worse. The individual or individuals who murdered Angel might one day face justice as determined by a jury of their peers. The police who commit similar murders will face no justice what so ever. Instead, they will get a nice retirement paid for by you and me.
Oh, and justifying all the violence that the police commit unnecessarily as just too bad since most of the victims are criminals, that is just beyond the pale. The Russians have a word for that sort of thing. Nekulturny. Used in this context, it defines out a little different. It would translate to uncivilized barbarian, or barbaric. That almost goes far enough to express the disgust I felt when I read the assertion that it's just too bad since most of them are criminals. Nekulturny indeed.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)by the cops in an attempt to imply that there was a robbery (the store clerk seen in the video did not report a robbery fyi) and that this was why the cop shot a kid to death.
But since that appears to be your argument, that in this democracy if a kid takes a few cigars from a store a cop has the right to become judge, jury and executioner. You support the DP without charges, trial, conviction and sentencing, you know, that thing called the Judicial System that makes the difference between a Civilized Society and a society that has no laws and it's everyone for themselves, and any 'authority' they may have can simply blow away whoever they don't like.
However, we know from the Police Chief that the Cop did not know about the incident at the store
So, the cop saw two kids walking down the street. What would happen in a civilized society? It happens all the time in civilized societies. The cop would say something like 'hey guys, can you walk on the sidewalk'? The kids would say 'sure', cop would say 'thanks' and everyone stays alive.
But this is increasingly becoming a police state with people ACTUALLY DEFENDING the murder by cop of civilians on a regular basis
How come the police in Norway, France, the UK are not blowing away citizens every day? Are they BRAVER than our cops who appear to be terrified of the people they are supposed to protect?
You seem determined to blame the victim for being dead. That isn't working for me, sorry. I don't expect encounters with the police who WORK FOR US, to end in dead citizens.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Fascinating.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Are you referring to good cops reporting on bad cops? It certainly would fit that scenario, as we all know.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)n/t
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)are implying. In fact, the protesters were there to help the businesses that were looted, and were thanked publicly for all the work they did to try to help those who were looted or damaged by a criminal element.
Wait, you are not equating the criminal element that exists in every town, to the protesters who were peaceful and there to protest the killing of yet another African American at the hands of the police? On Fox of course we expect to see that, but on DU? I hope not as we are a bit more informed than that.
Looters do not = respectable, decent people exercising their right to protest inequality.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)You know, the people who burned the place down.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)but if the citizens choose to attack the cop, then it is THEIR choice that is leading to the death.
No, the robbery is not connected to the shooting (although it helps to explain WHY Brown would attack instead of just moving on to the sidewalk.) But it does tend to show that Brown is not the most upstanding citizen in the town.
And as far as police in the UK, well they are dealing with a less homicidal population. UK's homicide rate is 1/4 what ours is.
And what is the thing that made this encounter not go like this?
"So, the cop saw two kids walking down the street. What would happen in a civilized society? It happens all the time in civilized societies. The cop would say something like 'hey guys, can you walk on the sidewalk'? The kids would say 'sure', cop would say 'thanks' and everyone stays alive."
What went different? Did the cop say (as Johnson claims) "get the fuck out of the street."
Is that somehow the end of the world? Wouldn't a couple of good kids just move onto the sidewalk and then say to each other "what a jerk, what the hell is his problem?" Cop drives off and everyone stays alive.
Why are you so sure that Brown did NOT attack Wilson through the open window? Because Johnson said so? Johnson who already lied, and tells a story that is nearly impossible and makes no sense at all.
Can you explain why a person would try to pull a larger person onto their lap? Does that really make sense to you?
Second, is it really believable that a smaller person would even be ABLE to pull a much larger man around? Supposedly he hit him with a door, and the door bounced back. So then he reaches out with ONE hand and pulls Mike into the vehicle? Like I said, then he must be able to bench press 300 pounds with one hand or something. I mean that is one incredibly strong arm if you believe that story - to be able to pull a 280 pound man around. And lightning fast too. I mean, if a cop tried to open his door and hit me with the door, I would probably jump back. Yet before Mike could do that, Wilson recovered from the door unexpectedly closing on him, takes his hand off the door handle and quickly grabs Brown by the throat. Those are some lightning quick reflexes if Johnson's story is to be believed.
To me, believing Johnson's story requires a couple large leaps of faith. I don't have that much faith. Wilson's story, that Brown attacked him through the open window, takes far less faith.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)death penalty for an eighteen year old kid, or an adult for that matter.
But you appear to be willing to accept the word of the cop. And why would any cop in a civilized society speak to a citizen the way you describe? 'Get the fuck out of the street', assuming he did.
I don't know if he did, but I can tell you, I HAVE BEEN spoken to in that manner by bullying cops, two of them on two different occasions, for doing NOTHING other than coming up to an intersection where a crowd of people were leaving a fund raiser. It was night, I was coming home from work. I stopped, of course because of the cars. Next thing I know a cop is YELLING at me 'BACK UP! BACK UP! Screaming would be a better word. I could NOT back up without hitting a car behind me. THAT didn't matter to this bully.
I tried to tell him that. But he was so high on adrenalin it didn't seem to matter. Imo, this guy was out of control and COULD have caused an accident. Now, should a citizen back into another car because a cop is yelling at them to do so? Or should they use their OWN judgement and then expect to be SHOT?
Put it this way, police have EARNED the lack of credibility they have. They are KNOWN to LIE constantly. And they are known to lie for each other.
And why is there less violence in other countries despite all the macho screaming and shooting of civilians by OUR Civilian police? Maybe it just isn't working?
Why was this cop fired, along with the entire department he belonged to, from his previous job and NOT one of the few who was hired back???
Was the cop drinking? Ending up killing someone, putting himself in a position where a kid, going along with your theory, and it IS a theory, was able to struggle with him, shows very bad judgement, doesn't it?
The bottom line is, if this was just one incident, people would not be as concerned about the behavior of cops in general towards people they are supposed to protect. But it isn't, and some day, if this country doesn't put a stop to citizen encounters with cops ending up dead, some day it might be someone you know.
I, eg, had every right not to expect to be screamed at and ordered to back into another car by a COP or ANYONE for that matter. They lie, in court, they scream at people, they have an 'it's us against the people' attitude' which is DANGEROUS.
Brown, no matter how many excuses are made, should not be dead. Shock should be the reaction of citizens when these things happen. But America is different from other Democracies, they are so used to people being killed by cops that they are now actually trying to EXCUSE it, as if lives matter less than getting a cop off the hook for killing somone. It truly is sad.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... to file an incident report for fear of incrimination.
Well, IF.. IF he was doing ALL of what he was supposed to be doing there would be no fear of that!!
He can NOT hide behind the 5th of credibility...
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... community on those stats because they want to make blacks the exception in that area.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)There is an ambiguous video, but no proof he robbed the store.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)what are basing, not so, on?
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)So far seems it seems to be working or them. Yeah, we're being rat freaked.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)White progressives give themselves too much credit a lot of times.
Solomon
(12,310 posts)the right. Obama's election proves it as far as I'm concerned.
The Traveler
(5,632 posts)and that a trial is necessary to bring to the public all the evidence, in broad daylight. I am not pre-convicting Officer Wilson, but my suspicions remain considerably elevated and these recent disclosures do little to relieve those.
In a very real sense, the SYSTEM as implemented in the vicinity of Ferguson is suspect, including the prosecutor. The conduct of the system needs to be impeccable at this point ... and so far, it certainly has not been. All these irregularities raise suspicions and concerns that will not be successfully white washed through the media of the main stream news, for that, too, has fallen into considerable disrepute in this country and even more so around the world.
Views on this may legitimately vary. We do not have hypothesize the action of trolls in all these cases (but, let's face it, some of that is likely). But that is mine. I think this is being "cleaned up", and the system will have to establish credibility before I will be able to change my mind on the matter.
Trav
donnasgirl
(656 posts)But i have a lot of questions that need to be answered before i can make up my mind one way or another.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/autopsy-analysis-michael-brown-may-have-gone-for-darren-wilson%E2%80%99s-gun/ar-BBaA3WG?ocid=ansWashpost11
I have just finished reading this article and it seems that something else is going to muddy up the waters.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)donnasgirl
(656 posts)but it seems that there is a possibility that the young man may have been also at fault.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... to shoot at him from the back.
That's the crime...
Wilson has to prove Brown was still a threat to himself or others and he HAD to kill him ...
The crime isn't a cop and a perp (I don't believe brown was a perp either) get in a scuffle and perp gets shot..
The crime is Wilson shot at Brown FROM the back while Brown was running away...
AND
While Brown was in the process of surrendering...
All the rest of it is a distraction...
Wilsons gun just didn't go off, seeing Wilson has NOT ONE OUNCE of credibility and has STILL NOT filed a report on the incident I beleive the Witness's that say Brown was strugling to get away from Wilson...
Seeing at least they spoke up.. Wilson is forcing an error hiding behind the 5th
gordianot
(15,237 posts)After being shot in the second round your body falls forward as the Policeman interprets that as charging forward. Judge, Jury, and executioner for being a large black man jay walking. What is wrong with a jury trial only problem is there is obviously not a prosecutor?
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 23, 2014, 05:41 PM - Edit history (1)
an unarmed man for taking six-10 bullets out of many fired at him into his body as his fault. Fault for walking in the street. Sure. Fault for lipping off to a disrespectful and threatening police officer. Sure. His fault for being accosted by wilson, hit with a car door, on purpose to engender a response from Michael Brown? Michael Brown's friend who was with him said as much. Yes I do believe that is the way it happened because wilson is a murderer of unarmed people running away from him. IF, in that car, he was trying to get wilsons side arm and got shot in the hand, his fault. I said IF that is the case, then sure. Him running away, getting shot at by wilson in a frenzy of shooting and dying from six bullets his fault? No. He was unarmed and running away from someone shooting at him like a psychopath.
Please explain how him being shot down, while unarmed, in the street, is his fault.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... vehicle and ignoring the rest IMHO...
There's was no reason to shoot at brown from behind...
The bullets into the buildings prove Wilson did such...
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)of nothing more than jaywalking but was made subject to extra-judicial execution.
ncjustice80
(948 posts)Brown was shot in the back with his hands ul. Anyone says diferent is a fucking liar.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... back or the front.
There were numerous witness's that saw him get react when a bullet was shot ...
Even shooting at Brown FROM the back is illegal unless the officer feels he was threatened
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)down the street. The teenager is dead, who happens to be Black, which of course increased his chances of ending up dead by cop.
What possible excuses can be made for the taking of a human life over something like walking in the middle of the street?
Eg, why did the cop not simply say 'hey guys, can you walk on the sidewalk please'? I'm sure that happens every day somewhere and the kids don't end up dead. So how come this cop got himself into a situation where he ended up killing an unarmed teenager?
The only 'mud' I see here is the attempt to justify these ever increasing 'deaths by cops' of Black young men, mostly.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts). . . then it's time for a federal civil rights investigation, which, it is my understanding, is ready to begin.
I share with most people the vote of no-confidence in the establishment a Ferguson, a community that is 70% Afro-American yet has not one black on the city council only a handful of non-whites on the police force. There's something wrong with that picture already.
branford
(4,462 posts)The DOJ is actively investigating the same witnesses and evidence as that available to the state. In fact, the feds performed their own third autopsy that has yet to leak.
I've even read reports that the state authorities have requested that the state and federal findings be released simultaneously.
However, I would note that federal civil rights charges are more difficult to prove than any state crimes.
Additionally, the fact that there isn't an African-American on the city council is not the fault of anyone but the voters, absent some evidence of voter suppression that I've heard nothing about. Sadly, it appears that minorities in Ferguson, as in many other poor communities, simply do not vote or run for office.
gordianot
(15,237 posts)We have a clear understanding with the in-laws of what will happen if they trespass based on old scores. Nothing about the city of Ferguson or the minority white population who control the town surprises me.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)He's a slick little shit. Almost as slick as the little shits doing their best to rationalize his actions.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)
Bonx
(2,053 posts)Oh yeah, that pesky legal system.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Darren Wilson. In fact, a very large majority of people I've seen have spoken out in favor of Mike Brown, if anything. And I've been following this case for a while, too. Maybe you just happened upon the wrong thread, or something? 
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... giving ear meaning they believe ONE OUNCE coming out of the FPD or Wilson..
an OUNCE
There are PLENTY of people believing much more than that
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Yeah, I'd say that's just a few. And half of them are probably trolls, I'd wager.
Honestly, man, is there something else that you want to say? There's more to this than meets the eye, I can tell you that much.....
heaven05
(18,124 posts)is too many. Wake up.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)a large stretch to say that there are enough right here on this site trying to paint wison as some kind of victim defending himself. Of course absolving wilson of his crime is the paramount reason for some of the sly support wilson gets on this site. But not surprising, I remember how skitttles, hoodie and tea were seen as a threat, by some here, to zimpig, during that 'incident'. It is disconcerting the effort, by some progressives that I have witnessed here, trying to clear wilson of wrongdoing in the outright murder of Michael Brown..
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I have never seen ONE genuine progressive calling Mr. Brown a "thug", or claiming that he deserved what he got, etc.....
Do you have something against progressives, by the way? Because you're talking to one right now.....
heaven05
(18,124 posts)to be who you are. I have nothing against progressives, just those wolves in sheep's clothing, amigo. Am I?
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5695678
You can come back to me once you get the memo.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)progressive applied to you is problematic. Get that memo, amigo. There are people on all sites that are racist, hateful and in agreement with people like wilson and zimpig. Do me a favor don't respond, it is a waste of time with me. Don't want to engage with someone so obvious and transparent in their cherry picking of wolves, when they are disregarding their own fleas. 
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)you must remain transparent and obvious to prove my point, which, by the way, you have done. Have a good one.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)
Response to LeftyMom (Reply #181)
Post removed
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)There is some dollar value which will free you up to go bother some other corner of the internet. Let's figure out what that is, then you can PM me your password, I can change it, lock you out and you can go do something else with your evenings.
You get money. My blood pressure goes down slightly. Everybody wins.
If it feels too mercenary I'm sure there's a charity that could use the support in your name. MSF?
heaven05
(18,124 posts)
betsuni
(25,478 posts)Richly satisfying to serve on a jury that hid a certain post, TBH.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,500 posts)
.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)There were a great many "eye witnesses" who saw Wilson do any number of things.
What I see on DU is some folks screaming their heads off because the results of the investigations aren't coinciding with the little drama they have built in their imaginations.
I'm hoping the attention on police militarization, the lopsided demographic of the police force and the community it is supposed to serve and police abuse of power with protesters results in some changes.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)... often have the majority on juries. I recently had my first two hides in 13 years of posting on this site. And both left me bemused that I was even alerted, much less hidden. One of them was a reply to a post complaining about Dems -and- full of right-speak, e.g. "we live in a Representative Republic".
While the last alert I sent out was left in a 1-6 vote. One of the 6 said it was because I did not offer an explanation in my alert. I didn't explain because the post was so obviously odious it should have been redundant.
Actually, I think the last two alerts I sent were voted down. And THAT is something which has also almost never happened before.
If the mods don't start doing something, DU is going to end up just another discussion board overrun by RW hate-mongers.
that says a lot. Discussionist is a disgusting site full of hate, misogyny, racism and hatred of the LGBT community. There are enough references to this site over there to have had infiltration from some of those knuckle draggers. Same happened to me on the hide situation. Take heart you're not alone.
Make7
(8,543 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2201528
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5307217
I wouldn't say voting to hide any of those was unreasonable.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)The first two were responses to overt trolls. And telling obvious trolls to fuck off used to be standard practice at DU.
The last is really weird. I pointed out that Israel could get away with anything with impunity ... and the pro-Palestinians got upset?!?
And there must be at least four then because my most recent was to yet another overt troll. Except that I did not tell him to fuck off, since that is apparently no longer allowed. Instead, I highlighted his troll speech while pointing out the logic fail in his post, to wit his "neighbor is supporting incumbent Republicans because he is angry at incumbents".
Apparently either highlighting right-speak "we live in a 'Representive Republic'" or saying "that does not make any fucking sense" is no longer allowed on DU.
Hell, might as well go for the five and double down on that last one. Because that still DOES NOT make any fucking sense.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... wingers here those kind of open conversations aren't allowed
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)That's a pretty big claim- what law mandates that he must file a report?
Quite often in use of force incidents the officer who was involved doesn't submit the report, but rather a supervisor or higher level agency does and includes that officers statement.
Can you cite the relevant law he is breaking?
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)This reminds me of a right wing forum, since this is exactly the type of thing they post on those (and I have even responded to with links, which I am not going to go fetch now, because really, either take it or leave, OR do your own research).
Here is the reality -- filing police incident reports are required as part of the job duties of LEO at ANY police department. So if he does not want to file a report then he should not be paid because he is refusing to fulfill his job duties. And while it may not be illegal to refuse to file a police report, it certainly constitutes a consciousness of guilt that could be used in court (and would be if the fix weren't already in, I am sure).
The issue of self incrimination is a non-issue because there is a legal exception that allows a LEO to make a full statement that cannot be used against in him a court of law. The lack of report here is purely (and clearly in my mind) part of fixing the facts to justify the shooting.
Here is the bottom line -- he grabbed a kid around the neck for daring to walk in the street instead of on a sidewalk. That fact seems indisputable. Had we not seen this thuggish behavior by police officers so often as of late it might be hard to believe Wilson did that. But it's not hard to believe at all. I am a white mid-50's businesswoman, and I had a cop tell me to "keep the fuck moving" when I pulled over to report a car accident around the corner (before I could get a word out of my mouth). Many cops today are just plain jerks.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)He was not legally bound to file a report, despite claims he is somehow breaking the law.
Once again, in incidents like this some officer on scene files a report, but there was no law mandating Wilson be the author of the report.
If you claim he was legally bound to personally file the report, please cite the SPECIFIC law.
As long as an officer who responded filed a report, the requirements are met.
I went to court about cases I responded to but another officer who also responded did the report for- never any problem.
If you want to call me "right wing" for being accurate about what the law does and does not say or require, fine, but if you can't cite the law you claim mandates he personally file the report then you don't have anything but insults to bolster your argument.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Here is a sample police policy. http://www.aacounty.org/Police/RulesRegs/Sections20-24/2200ReportReqs.pdf
It's not exactly controversial that LEOs are required to file reports, especially when use of force is involved. It is SOP in fact. So apparently you want to give him a pass because it's not a criminal offense? Why is that? And why in the world is he being paid when he refuses to follow departmental procedures?
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)didn't know about the incident at the store with the cigars previously. But leaked reports of Wilson's remarks to the Feds (and presumably to the Grand Jury) have him driving past Brown and Johnson, then having a sudden epiphany that Johnson's clothing matched the description of the suspects in the supposed store robbery, stopping his vehicle blah, blah, blah.
Now Wilson either lied to his boss, Chief Jackson, and thus should be fired for gross insubordination.
Or Wilson lied to federal investigators and thus should be subject to criminal proscution for the felony of lying to federal investigators.
Wilson should either be fired for lying to his boss or facing prosecution for lying to the Feds.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)... especially in use of force incidents. Anyone excusing the LEOs for this is NOT an honest broker on this issue, IMO.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)But nothing in your link says that every officer on a call must file a report, or that a specific officer on a call must file a report.
Exactly in line with what I said.
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)documentation, then you'ss see how the FBI, the state and local police as well as Eric Holder and the judicial system are in cahoots, to let this unknown officer off the hook for the first shooting in Fugeson in ....how many years ?
uponit7771
(90,335 posts).. and then not incriminate himself by default.
Bottom line
If he was DOING WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO... then filing a report is accedemic...
If not and he COULD have done something wrong in the process of killing another human then of course... don't fill out the report
but then
he should not have ONE OUNCE OF CREDIBILITY by default.... he's saying he did SOMETHING untoward relative to killing another human
PERIOD
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Because you are making it up.
FOIA requests DO NOT compel or require a report be done- they only require if one is done it be made available, subject to some restrictions.
By default in most department the officer who is involved in a shootibg doesn't personally author the report.
People claiming his not personally filing a report is a criminal act are flat out telling lies, either intentionally or from ignorance.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)3403-Wilson - is the person filing the report for the SLPD...
UNLESS...
There's another Wilson in the SLPD...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/22/1323712/-The-missing-Ferguson-PD-Incident-Report-on-the-death-of-Michael-Brown-omg
UPDATE
It also notes that:
Unit #4412 from SLCPD (St Louis County PD) in COGIS (geographic location) 2160 was dispatched at 12:43 and arrived at the scene at 13:30.
But the reporting Officer is listed as 3403-Wilson. If the Incident Report was made by the SLCPD and SOMEONE was dispatched and arrived, why is Wilson listed as the Reporting Officer? Unless this is not Darren Wilson, the officer involved, but some other Officer Wilson at the SLCPD?
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)That report was filled out in the SLCPD computer reporting system.
That system would only be used by SLCPD officers.
It only has a last name. Wilson is a very common last name.
It lists that Wilson as having a badge number of 3403, so if the "experts" at KOS actually wanted facts instead of speculation that would be easy to run down.
But I see something else telling- it lists tagt officer as part of the Homicide/Robbery/Sexual Assault Unit. Pretty specialized way to break that down. We know Darren Wilson was a patrol officer, not a detective who would be assigned to such a unit.
Furthermore, Fergeson PD is way to small to have a division like that.
So let's look- who does have a unit by the exact name of "Homicide/Robbery/Sexual Assault Unit"
Why, SLCPD does!!
www.stlouisco.com/LawandPublicSafety/PoliceDepartment/FacilityAddressesandPhoneNumbers
So, using some common sense it appears that an officer in the SLCPD Homicide/Robbery/Sexual Assault Unit with the badge number 3403 and last name Wilson made that report.
If the folks at KOS really wanted answers they would call and ask if officer 3403 was named Wilson on SLCPD.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Travelman
(708 posts)I would be very interested in seeing such a link indeed. A credible one, please.
Personally, I don't want police writing reports about some sort of incident that involves them directly. I want a third party investigating that and writing the reports. Think about it:
Cop shoots X person. Doesn't really matter who. Maybe he had to. Maybe the guy was shooting at him first, or attacking him with an axe or whatever. But maybe it's not a case where he had to defend himself. Do you really want the guy who shot someone else to just decide what's going to be in a police report and then close the case? I sure as hell don't.
And it doesn't have to be shootings, either. Maybe it's a traffic accident. Cop screws up and rear-ends you. If he's the guy writing the report, he can just write it up that you backed into him, and then it's "official" and you're completely boned.
You could apply that to all sorts of situations, and in no case is it really a great idea to not have a dis-interested third party doing the investigation.
When this shooting first happened, at least according to the Ferguson police chief, he immediately called St. Louis County PD and asked them to take over the investigation. There seems to be a significant amount of documentation that has been released to back that up: dispatch transcripts, statements from other officers, the fact that County PD arrived on the scene in one of the videos taken immediately after the shooting, the coroner's report, etc., etc., etc. That makes perfectly good sense to me: have someone else who is not directly involved take the reports, the witness statements, do the forensics, collect the evidence, etc. And that includes taking Wilson's statement, as well as any follow-up stuff with Wilson.
So I personally would not expect any report actually written by or filed by Wilson whatsoever, other than perhaps a short "I encountered XYZ at ABC time and a shooting occurred; investigation immediately turned over to County PD for investigation." Other than that, I'm pretty sure I don't want the Ferguson PD involved in this investigation at all.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)You are exactly right- in a case like this either a senior officer responding from the agency or one with jurisdiction over them does the report.
For a simple example, I was involved in a traffic accident on duty. I did not write the report, nor did anyone on my department. We called the NC Highway Patrol and they did it.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)... that's a voice cheering for lack of accountability.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Would you want that same officer writing the accident report, or an officer from an outside agency writing it and taking the statement of the officer involved?
Same principle. Demanding Wilson write yeh report personally is foolish and unrealistic. Claiming a law was brokwn because he didn't is straight up wrong and dishonest.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Absolutely. Because what we have when that doesn't happen is a bunch of BS inserted later to fix the story.
On edit: and it's neither unrealistic or foolish. It is the standard requirement for nearly every police department in the land, particularly when there is use of force.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)There is a difference between getting a statement taken and writing the report.
The senior officer or outside agency who writes the report takes the statement.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)The only incident report released had zero details from Wilson. And quite by design I'm sure.
And no, I'm not confused. SOP is the officer involved files a report. There is a reason SOP wasn't followed here. IMO, your are naive to believe otherwise.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)That you claim exists. If it's there, it is in writing.
Show me and back your claims up.
Because having worked for multiple agencies none of them wanted an officer involved in anything like this as the author of the primary report.
If you check there is an incident report, the PD however released a heavily redacted version citing ongoing investigation. While the redactions are of disputed legitimacy, you can't redact almost 2 pages of information from a blank report.
You are clearly confused and thinking of the St Louis County report, where they released the initial draft (quote often a quick report is made with dated and times them later officers sit down and enter details for tjier note) that had everybody in an uproar on here because they, like you, didn't comprehend that it was not the agency Wilson even worked for but the second one to respond.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)One of my pet peeves on discussion boards is people that demand proof that's already in the same thread they didn't read before demanding proof. And it's a tell that I'm discussing something with someone who has no actual interest in educating themself before declaring someone else is "confused."
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... his STATED purpose on the job... is to do that report and HE FOLLOWED PROCEDURE... so there's NO REASON to hide behind the fith
UNLESS>..
IN the process of killing another human
He did something wrong...
Travelman
(708 posts)I want a link to an actual Missouri statute that says "an officer involved in a shooting must file a report within X hours," or at least something very similar to that.
The claim is that it is illegal to not file a report. That means, by definition, that there is a law on the books to that effect, and FOIA ain't it.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... has NOTHING on the incident in the filing... and that's the illegal part.
He's "hiding" behind the 5th... you know.. cause he did EVERYTHING correct in the process of ending another humans life /sarcasm...
No... he fucked up royally... so BY DEFAULT Wilson credibility is shot... he doesn't need the 5th if he did everything he was SUPPOSED to do.
So THAT is breaking the law in spirit and that is what was stated earlier this year will go to the USSC seeing these guys are obfuscating a federally related FOAI request to the Nth degree.
Travelman
(708 posts)I specifically asked for a credible link to the law saying that this was illegal.
I don't get where anyone is claiming that Wilson is invoking the Fifth Amendment. That's pretty much absurd, since we know that he spent four hours voluntarily testifying to the grand jury. Ergo, he clearly is not remaining silent W/R/T the authorities.
The basis of this entire claim is that Wilson had some sort of specific legal requirement to file a report on his own shooting within some specific time period. If no one can come up with the law saying that, then you've got nothing but a made-up claim of an obligation that doesn't exist. Sorry.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)....
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/22/1323712/-The-missing-Ferguson-PD-Incident-Report-on-the-death-of-Michael-Brown-omg
Because he's not hiding behind the 5th...
He's just breaking laws and rules from the dept...
Travelman
(708 posts)Let's try one more time. You're an attorney with thirty years' experience. This should be very, VERY easy for anyone who has managed to graduate law school. Give me a link to the ACTUAL LAW that specifies that Darren Wilson had an obligation to file his own report within some specified time after the incident occurred.
Not dailyKos, not the ACLU, not some random blog, not some other DU thread. The ACTUAL LAW.
Either the law exists, and you can very readily access it and post it here, or the law doesn't exist and this whole gripe is pointless drivel.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... with the paperwork with the incidents outlined.
IF NOT...
Then NOT filling out the incident report he incriminates himself by default...
There's no hiding behind the 5th here...
Just a 'LOST' filed incident report ... or one not filed at all...
Travelman
(708 posts)You do understand what the word "illegal" means, right? I mean, you graduated from law school in 1983, and they haven't really changed the definition of "illegal" since then.
Hell with it. I'll just take this as your concession that there is no such law like you claimed there was.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... crap and people give HIM the benefit of the doubt.
The `123p480123 4on Witness's who's stories pretty much line up!?
fuck em hunh?
wow...
Travelman
(708 posts)Or just plain jibberish.
Whatever. There is no law. There is no legal obligation. You've very clearly just made something up because you're emotional about this.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Travelman
(708 posts)It should be super-duper easy for an attorney with thirty years' worth of experience to show the law that was supposedly violated.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)There is NO legal requirement for a specific officer on a call to file a report. Some officer on the call has to, but it was not legally required to be Wilson and in most agencies after something like this the senior officer on the shift does it, and includes the other officers statements. If 5 officers respond to a call 5 seperate reports don't get filed, just one covering the call.
The FOIA and state equivalents only apply to existing documents. Filing a FOIA report for a report from Wilson does not compel such a report to be created. If the report does not exist then it doesn't exist.
There is no law requiring any single officer to file a report, contrary to the original posters claims that Wilson is breaking the law. If anyone says there is please cite the specific law.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Here is the standard for use of force reports. My understanding is that he refused to make any statement at all. If he didn't refuse then where is it?
http://www.aele.org/uof-rep-guide.pdf
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)But reports are he voluntarily testified in front of the Grand Jury for several hours when not required to, so clearly he is talking and giving accounts.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts).... so he can fix his story around it. What non-LEO lay person being investigated by a grand jury gets that privilege? None. The whole thing is disgusting, and a clear set up to let another thug PO off the hook.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Disgusting is right!
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... against the law to hold back from a federal investigation or a FOIA request said report.
This has been posted on DU a couple of times of how the FPD is skirtin FOIA and the FEDs request for the report that Wilson was supposed to have filled out.
Give a blank sheet violates the FOIA in spirit if not law
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)regarding him fighting with Brown in the car, that still does not explain or justify the subsequent shooting that took place outside of the car.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)wasn't drug tested after the murder by those Mayberry Machiavellis.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... someone who was no threat to him in the back...
Also,
Killing another human while the human was TRYING to surrender
Bettie
(16,095 posts)that makes the cops look like the good guys.
In the end, this guy will go on his merry way, back on the streets (probably with a promotion) and the knowledge that he can do anything and there will be no more consequence than short period of inconvenience, paid, of course.
Wella
(1,827 posts)What report are you referring to?
He testified AFTER he was given a full accounting of the evidence, probably so he could fix his story around it. Ever seen a non LEO get that privilege? No.
The fix was in as soon as they excused him from writing the report. Ridiculous and disgusting.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Didn't write a report, just fled like a cowardly dog.
Wella
(1,827 posts)Thanks.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)They have the right to remain silent, then they can testify in their trial. Typically testifying last.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)So they can fix their story around it.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)All defendants have the right to discovery. I realize that this case is public so a lot of things are public, but its not like Wilson is sitting in on the grand jury testimony every day.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)To a paid vacation even as he ignores his job duty to complete an incident report on use of force AND a sit down with prosecutors to review all the evidence prior to appearing before a grand jury.
If you think other people get that special treatment prior to being called to a grand jury you're misinformed and/or naive.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)How is he a defendant?
PorridgeGun
(80 posts)Its obvious you have no clue how criminal proceedings work. If you're arrested as a suspect in a crime the first thing a lawyer will tell you is to keep your mouth shut. Amongst other reasons for this is that the prosecutor is required to disclose the evidence that will be presented at trial to the defence before the trial begins.
This is known as "discovery."
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)A) he hasn't been arrested. B) the requirement to file an incident report after use of force is SOP at every police department in this country. C) he can still invoke his rights even after that statement is made - there is a specific law about that for LEOs. D) there is absolutely no fucking right to discovery prior to indictment. That special privelege is apparently just for him.
Gotta love people that think they know stuff they are clueless about. Very amusing. Except the part where those people act like the person they are responding to is wrong.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... for it and he's refused to put pen to paper.
The FOIA obfuscations are going to the USSC IMHO... FPD is skirting them by overcharging and using the feds as an excuse not give public information related to the federal government
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)What's going on here?
No, wait...
Don't answer that.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... proper incident report because he COULD have done something wrong in the process of killing another human and hiding behind the 5th.
Well, if he did all of what he was supposed to do he wouldn't have to hide behind the 5th... just fill out the report and he would be cleared because he followed procedures...
Well, we know he shot at Brown from the back while Brown was fleeing.. that in and of itself is a breaking of the law and procedures...
But... people are going to give this guy a micro ounce of credibility ... and discard what MULTIPLE witness's say about shooting at brown from the back...
DU is beyond belief with the overrun of wingers
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)was in a defenseless position, evidenced by gunshot wounds under his arm and the distance between him and the officer.
And now I'm hearing that another autopsy report has surfaced that confirms that Mike Brown was also shot at point blank range, which would support his friend's (Jackson?) account that Wilson actually walked up to Brown and shot him again--one final shot.
Oh, no! Race had absolutely nothing to do with it, you see. How dare I think such a thing! How dare I!
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)That's what keeps playing in my head because some of the black witnesses said the same thing:
"He did nothing wrong!"
"He ain't even do anything!"
Are they all liars?
Oh, wait...
We have to give the white cop the benefit of the doubt even though all these witnesses basically corroborate each other's accounts of what happened.
JustAnotherGen
(31,818 posts)We just reached a point where we cannot believe major news outlets, the Ferguson PD, any officials in Ferguson etc. etc. Wilson lost any and all credibility upstream down.
The fix is in.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... to fill out a PROPER incident report for fear of being prosecuted if ... if they guy ... by default did NOT do anything wrong and followed procedure he shouldn't have anything to worry about.
He shot at a fleeing suspect... and most likely hit him
My understanding that's some jail time ...
That we can all agree on...
JustAnotherGen
(31,818 posts)Because it shows a culture of corruption, lies, unaccountability, dodging, deflecting, deferring.
We can ALL agree that something is rotten here.
Now - I'm wondering - we know about Brown, we know about this guy.
What do we NOT know about? Is this bigger than them? Is there something evil within the Criminal Justice and Community Leadership teams in Ferguson that they are hiding? Why go to all of this trouble?
What's the bigger hide? And what major media outlets are getting paid off by this poduck Fife squad to protect them?
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)If a client was under arrest a good lawyer will always advise their client not to speak to the police.
I dont care if my client was with me 50 miles away from the scene of the crime and could not have possibly be involved. They should not talk to the police. Nothing good can come from it. And even the police know not to talk when they are being investigated.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... behind the 5th which he's not ... I just found out... he's just refusing to file and incident report.
But why would he suspect that from the jump and not fill out the incident report?!
heaven05
(18,124 posts)for an eye opening experience as to how the truth can try to be buried under a pile of hypocritical BS by so many people. You really are great.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Critics and news media outlets have questioned why Ferguson police released an incident report from a robbery in which Brown was a suspect, as well as security video showing the robbery, but not the report on the shooting of the unarmed 18-year-old a short time later by Officer Darren Wilson.
The reason, according to the office of St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert P. McCulloch, is that it doesn’t exist.
The St. Louis County police department presumably did file an incident report, but any such documents will not be made public until a grand jury investigating the officer-involved shooting concludes its investigation, according to officials from the office who briefed NBC News on the case.
NBC News
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)But so many here are either too thick-headed to understand it or just want to stir shit up spreading misinformation.
Just as I have been saying over and over- in something like this almost every department calls a higher level agency in to take over the investigation, to ensure it is done properly and reduce conflict of interest.
And just as I have been saying, that higher agency did a report, and almost certainly took Wilsons statements for it.
And holding it until the Grand Jury is done is reasonable and prudent.
All the folks claiming Wilson broke the law or incriminated himself by not personally authoring a report are doing nothing but displaying your ignorance.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... shed a bit of energy defending ANYTHING they do!?
tia
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)First release was what looked like the initial report before detectives notes were entered- pretty common to make that then go enter data later.
Later release was redacted pending the Grand Jury finishing it's duties.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... file on this.
thx in advance
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)I do not support his actions after Michael ran away. WRONG.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... ran away the cop can just claim he shot him because Brown attacked him
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)None?
You don't have to believe he deserved to be shot to think that he was innocent in all of this, and his behavior in the store tells me he's not the gentle giant we were initially led to believe. No way. But he was someone's child. He was loved. He was a human being.
I can see this while still believing that he didn't deserve to be killed - it's called justice.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts).. credibility with me.
no one expects perfection so the "i screwed up" at one point I don't mind....
But to go into hiding and NOT fill out the usual incident report or fill it out and skirt Sunshine and FOIA laws makes him dead on guilty ...
Not only that...
The KKK is supporting him....
FUCK Mr Wilson, he has no credibility with me right now...
and his behavior in the store tells me he's not the gentle giant we were initially led to believe. No way. But he was someone's child. He was loved. He was a human being.
This is more bullshit...
Please view the video of the store clerk walking out the door with money in his hand... IN THE BEGINNING OF THE purchase
ie.. the video the FPD leaked is NOT the beginning...
Also...
The store clerk NEVER
- Called the police to the scene
- Filed an incident report
That doesn't sound like strong arm robbery to me...
I don't care if he was "gentile" or not... the cop backed up... FOR WHAT!!!?!!?!?!?!?
NO REASON other than to fuck with some kids... he were jay walking!?!?
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)He had no reason to back up after telling the kids to get off the road. He should have drove on. But for whatever reason he backed up. That shows the cop was looking for a fight right there.