General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWA high school shooter was the freshman Homecoming King.
So probably not an outcast, just some angry kid with a gun.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/24/us/washington-school-shooting/
The gunman who opened fire Friday at Washington state's Marysville-Pilchuck High School has been identified as freshman Jaylen Fryberg, fellow students, including eyewitnesses, told CNN.
Fryberg was announced as the high school's freshman homecoming king on October 17, according to YouTube video of the ceremony and accounts from students to CNN.
Fryberg's multiple social media accounts depict him frequently hunting, and using rifles. His social media accounts say he was a Native American and a member of the Tulalip tribe.
[Breaking news update, posted at 4:23 p.m. ET]
A student at Washington state's Marysville-Pilchuck High School walked into the school's cafeteria, went up to a table with students, "came up from behind ... and fired about six bullets into the backs of them," witness Jordan Luton told CNN. "They were his friends, so it wasn't just random," Luton said.
malaise
(268,966 posts)after a fight. I also heard that the fight started after someone used a racist slur about him.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Maybe there was someone who used a slur against him but that obviously doesn't justify what he did.
malaise
(268,966 posts)What's more the story now is that the fight was over a girl.
tblue37
(65,340 posts)jtuck004
(15,882 posts).... having a good time," he said. "And then today, just horrible. I don't know what went through his head or what caused him to do it."
By all accounts, Fryberg was a popular student. Just two weeks earlier, he had been named as the high school's freshman homecoming prince, according to a YouTube video of the ceremony and accounts provided by students to CNN.
From the lead CNN story. Other than the thing about the girlfriend, this sounds like a normal kid who decided to kill. And while I know the gut reaction is to say that sin't normal, he lives in a nation where we use killing to solve our problems every day.
Maybe he was a better student of what we taught him than we want to admit?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)We as Americans need to ask why it's so ingrained in our nature to introduce violence into conflicts/arguments/situations where it is completely unnecessary...
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)from the very earliest years, is essential.
Preschool is not too early to help children find ways to manage their frustrations and conflicts.
"Janey, when Tommy tries to take your toy away and it makes you angry, what can you do?"
"Hit him?"
"That would make him sad and hurt. And we don't hurt other people. Perhaps you could try saying to him, 'I know we both like this toy. Why don't I take my turn first for ten minutes and then I'll give it to you.'"
Okay, maybe this sounds stupid, but it's essential to give kids the techniques for resolving issues, and it has to start early. This is why (noninstructional, developmental) preschool is so essential in this country.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)sad and hurt?
woolldog
(8,791 posts)"That would make him sad and hurt"
Who cares? If Tommy tries to take away Janey's toy, why should Janey show more respect for Tommy's feelings than Tommy shows for her feelings.
Put differently, why should Janey privilege her abusers' feelings over her own?
betsuni
(25,475 posts)why does Tommy do this?" "Because he wants me to get angry?" "Yes, Tommy wants everyone to be as sad and hurt as he is, tell him to go fuck himself."
frazzled
(18,402 posts)With responses like this and the others above, we can expect more violence and self-interested behavior rather than comity and communal interests in our society. I give up. I'll just go cultivate my own garden.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)betsuni
(25,475 posts)And we don't hurt other people.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)The vast, vast, vast... did I mention vast... majority of all conflict in the western world, to include America, is solved non-violently.
A few hundred thousand high school kids will break up with a boyfriend/girlfriend tomorrow or get kicked off a team and will boo hoo for a sec and eventually move on.
I encourage you to look up some truly violent cultures where conflict virtually demands violence.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I didn't shoot anyone when they made fun of me for being fat, or being a band geek, or when my girlfriend broke up with me. This problem isn't about guns.
Your right, these are aberrations, but we do need to understand why they happen.
Last edited Fri Oct 24, 2014, 08:12 PM - Edit history (1)
My dad introduced me to the "gun culture" when I was 6. Most of my friends at similar ages. Guess what? We never shot anyone even when we were so mad we wished them dead.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Heck, Zimmerman, Michael Dunn, Curtis Reeves, Adam Lanza, etc., all said the same thing as you.
former9thward
(31,996 posts)But then I was not a close acquaintance of them as you apparently were.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)causes not connected to gunz. But some folks just can't kick the addiction.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Looking at their website, can't find anything other than gun rights material, maybe I'm not seeing it, can you provide a link?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Last edited Sun Oct 26, 2014, 12:36 PM - Edit history (1)
they are only promoting gun issues. I'm sure when they walk into a legislators office, they don't confine their discussion to gunz. They crack racist jokes, push keeping taxes low on rich, cutting food stamps, bombing Muslims, etc. Things the the majority of gun cultists hold dear.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)They are as private citizens, but I sure as hell don't see anything on the NRA website about anything else.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)". . . . . . Why would they [NRA] "take heat" for supporting pro-gun Democrats? Oh right, because having the "correct" opinions about guns isn't sufficient for support, you also have to have the "correct" opinions on minorities, and the inherent evil of government, and all the other far-right notions that Wayne LaPierre and his legion of protoconfederates froth on about during one of their many speeches. . . . . . ."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/15/1336791/-The-NRA-is-a-far-right-conservative-organization-that-works-against-Democrats#
"People think the NRA is just a gun group. It's really not." Horwitz said. Horwitz's group has created a cheeky website, "Meet the NRA.org." It lists the NRA's board of directors, and it has a rolling information bar that features some of their more colorful statements."
"The NRA's board includes Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, and David Keene, former chairman of the American Conservative Union. The board also includes Robert Brown, creator of Soldier of Fortune magazine, and rock guitarist Ted Nugent."
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/06/politics/nra-alec/
NRA Preaching is Going Way Beyond Gun Rights
http://thenewstalkers.com/forum/topics/nra-preaching-is-going-way-beyond-gun-rights-pushing-right-wing
Sarah Palins NRA Speech Was Probably the Biggest Pile of Garbage Ive Ever Watched
It was literally a twelve minute speech where she made absolutely no points, just spouted off a bunch of right-wing trigger words and phrases she knew the sheep in the crowd would eat right up.
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/sarah-palins-nra-speech-probably-biggest-pile-garbage-ive-ever-watched-video/
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)prove tha the NRA is promoting anything other than gun rights.
Individual board members do promote other than gun rights, but not under the banner of the NRA
As usual, a big fat failure on your part.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)don't you?
former9thward
(31,996 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)why make it hard on you?
former9thward
(31,996 posts)I don't duck anyone.
Skittles
(153,154 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)You made me drop my nook.
Skittles
(153,154 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)then to inconvenient gun owners.
former9thward
(31,996 posts)Typical. When I went to high school we brought our rifles to school and used them to target practice and sometimes hunt after school. We stored them in our lockers. No body killed anybody. It is not guns that have changed, it is society.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)are easy to portray as emotional. I grow up in the same kind of gun culture, all though we didn't bring them to school, we hunted. Hell, we build muzzle loaders. But just because I have fond memories is no justification for what's happening in America.
If you have a practical idea for reducing gun violence, let's hear it. If it seems workable and reasonable I think you find people getting behind it.
Or you can just be semi-snarky about the issue. Oh no, he doesn't understand the difference between semi and fully automatic.
phil89
(1,043 posts)Disgusting and violent.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Elk, Deer, game birds, etc.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)according to your way of thinking. They know that I have a shotgun and a pistol. I can guarantee you that neither of them is ever going to go on a shooting spree. There is a lot more to these cases than just kids whose parents have guns. There are obviously other things going on in their lives.
As for your crack about "questionable needs," who gets to decide what people's needs are? Do you think that people "need" to defend themselves and their families?
Most gun owners are like me, people who keep a weapon or two in the house for self defense, or else they like to hunt (which I don't). Almost all of the people I know own guns, and with the exception of one law enforcement officer who shot someone in the line of duty and one Vietnam veteran who saw a lot of combat, I don't know a single person who has ever shot anyone.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Toters, lots of guns and ammo, militia types, bigots, gun promoters, those who practice on targets resembling people, Zimmerman types, etc., are a concern.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Your reasoning is the same as that used by cigarette smokers who say that cigarettes don't cause cancer because they know smokers who don't have it. Just because some people don't get cancer doesn't mean it doesn't raise the risk. Same with guns. If a teen owns a gun the risk is much higher that he'll shoot someone with it than if he doesn't own one.
former9thward
(31,996 posts)Tens of millions of teenagers have guns. Very few of them ever have any issues with them. While smoking does not cause cancer in everyone who smokes, almost all people who smoke regularly have some negative physical response from it.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)than teens who do not.
Allowing a young teen unsupervised control of a lethal weapon is just plain stupid.
former9thward
(31,996 posts)and themselves than those who have no cars. I don't see anyone saying teens should not be allowed to drive.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)insurance. Which states require teens to get gun licenses after passing safety and shooting tests?
former9thward
(31,996 posts)Teens with cars kill more than teens without cars.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)to drive cars and to use guns.
NickB79
(19,236 posts)If anything, far fewer kids are being shown how to use firearms today by their parents than 50-60 years ago, given the slow drop in the number of rural families and hunters in this country.
Yet the trend of mass school shootings is a relatively recent phenomenon.
There is a deeper explanation that needs to be found than the simplistic one you imply.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Go to a gun show or gun store. The majority of yahoos drooling over AR15s, etc., aren't deer hunters.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)have yet to see anyone "drooling" over any firearm, and the racial make up is pretty diverse where I reside.
But I'm positive you'll post some stupid picture of all white males at a firearms show to attempt to prove your pathetic point.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)You've been pushing your love of gunz far too long on this site. Weren't you the one who supported the Bundy Ranch armed militias?
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Number 2, I've only been here for about 4 weeks, so how have I been pushing my "love of guns", not gunz, learn how to spell, far too long on this site.
Number 3, I've never even commented on Bundy, so how the hell did you come up with that crap?
NickB79
(19,236 posts)And the mass shooter at Virginia Tech was South Korean.
And Dylan Klebold, one of the Columbine killers, was raised by college-educated, middle-class, suburban parents who even named him after Dylan Thomas, a renowned Welsh poet.
Mass school shootings don't appear to follow any particular pattern, ie primarily by kids raised in families that hold racist or militia points of view. They appear to be spread across the racial and socio-economic spectrum, as the examples I gave above indicate.
Like I said, there is something deeper at work here than saying "da racist gun nutz caused it."
Personally, my completely unscientific opinion is that far too few children are being responsibly introduced to guns by their parents, and those who are being introduced to guns are often introduced in a way that makes guns more like toys than potentially lethal weapons. I have 25-yr old coworkers who's only prior experience with guns is through video games, going out and buying AR's and AK's because they look cool, and blasting away hundreds of rounds at a gun range.
Whereas I was introduced to shooting with a single-shot, pump pellet gun by my dad, couldn't shoot his .22-cal rifle for squirrel hunting until I passed gun safety when I was 12, and wasn't allowed unsupervised access to said gun until I was 16. And even then, I had to conserve ammo by shooting slow and safe, or I'd get no more bullets for a while. Even today, my go-to gun is a single-shot pellet rifle, albeit a high-powered one capable of hunting with.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Shooter dead self inflicted gunshot wound. 6 victims in total, I don't know if that includes the shooter. The press conference just ended.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Brickbat
(19,339 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Saying (paraphrasing) " didnt you know she was still my girlfriend." . This from the local Inquisitor News.
(Apologize..i am on my phone & this is the best i can do till I get home later, to my laptop.)
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Not that that changes anything, fundamentally.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Who needs enemies.
Mister Nightowl
(396 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)He was popular kid and was expected to be a tribal leader, it also says.
In the second, there is a series of pictures, with his social media page. He praises his parents and says how much he loves them for his birthday present, a rifle. Other pictures are posing with a deer's head and there is another with a girl:
http://hollywoodlife.com/pics/washington-school-shooter-marysville-pilchuck-gunman-jaylen-ray-fryberg/?_escaped_fragment_=1/jaylen-ray-fryberg-shooter-of-marysville-highschool-ftr%26ref%3D/2014/10/24/marysville-school-gunman-shooting-jaylen-fryberg-gun-birthday/pos%3D#!1/jaylen-ray-fryberg-shooter-of-marysville-highschool-ftr&ref=/2014/10/24/marysville-school-gunman-shooting-jaylen-fryberg-gun-birthday/pos=
Don't know if that girl was the one he killed or if some other girl was the victim. One report says he smirked at a bystander after shooting.
Does not make sense for him to do this or to kill himself. Think of the kids who are dead or hurt and his family. One report says he appeared to be acting as everything was fine before this.
There's no telling what was going on in his mind and the mystery of his life and those he shot will not be resolved, probably.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)of giving this 14 year old a deadly weapon.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)The whole thing is more than a little creepy, to shoot his friends like that from behind. Now there is nothing left but time to heal the families of the dead and the wounded. But never enough.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)But it was still a mistake.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)where he continually made threats and talked about how unhappy he was.
I was reading on my phone at work so not sure where. Either CNN or Daily News. A pic of him on his page with a rifle, and a threat.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)I understand if you can't go further because of your device. I'm on a desktop but it's an older machine and I'm having trouble viewing now. I also can't see Twitter or Facebook pages as I'm not signed onto to them.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Goodness what would have happened if he didn't have a gun!
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)He might have started a fist fight or something and given a kid a black eye or--heavens!--knocked couple of teeth out. Fortunately all that was avoided thanks to equipping the 14 year old with a gun.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)What would have happened if only he'd been kept in a locked box away from anything that could potentially influence him to hurt anyone ever?
Won't someone think of the children?!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)That's fucking stupid.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)... but certainly not accurate.
The point, that whizzed by you, is that there are untold things that influenced that kid to commit his violent act and if any one of them hadn't happened or happened differently, he might not have made the same decisions.
If only his parents hadn't allowed him to date... If only he hadn't had access to the media, internet, bad influences at school. If only he hadn't ... whatever..
Take your pick...
A simple (and naive) view is to look at the last thing that happened and say "Well, that must be it. It's guns."
The complex, much more difficult but ultimately more accurate way is to look at the circumstances that led to such a severe choice over a long period of time.
Thinking like yours is what led the masses to concepts like zero tolerance because folks refuse to use the analytical part of their brain. It's just too difficult it seems.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Guns make it easy to kill.
Just like it's easy to insult others by saying that they refuse to use the analytical part of their brain because you don't like their opinion.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)If folks aren't thinking by the time they are adults then they stand virtually no chance to start doing so.
Guns are an excellent case in point... It just seems to flip folk's switches to duhhhhh and/or outrage. For examples please refer to the high school photo thread.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Or we could let them go out in the world, experience all types of things, BUT NOT GIVE THEM WEAPONS THAT MAKE IT EASY TO INFLICT MASS SHOOTINGS WHEN THEIR HORMONES GET RAGING.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)One bad friend, TV show, parental example, the list goes on and on...
Can't insulate from the world and nor should you even if you could...
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Why yes, we need to lock kids in boxes because a bad friend might influence them. Truly stupid. But gun humpers will grasp at anything rather than agree that maybe kids who aren't allowed to drive a car much less vote should have across to weapons.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)... that the thing you seem to be so spun up about is the single most important factor in every one of these incidents....
Just amazing how stuff like that works out once you take statistical analysis out of and replace it with hyperbole...
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)sick and twisted and a disgusting fetish. I said that photos of teens posing with their guns gave me the creeps..Oooh, I hurt dere widdle feewings real bad!
And this is exactly why I said what I said. Fuck the sicko, gun-worshipping mentality in this country and the death and carnage it causes.
Kath1
(4,309 posts)Agree 100%! Fuck them. This has to stop.
Thank Christ people like you are speaking up.
hack89
(39,171 posts)If you want to appear adult and rational you have say "gunz". Over and over again.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)Keep saying it.
As I've said before: PROSECUTE THE OWNER OF THE GUN--long term jail.
That would go a long way to stopping this. It was his father's gun.
Kath1
(4,309 posts)I recommend it. All of the missed signals before the tragedy and all of the lies, cover-ups and misinformation that went out after.
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)Too soon...?
randome
(34,845 posts)I did a search for the word 'Homecoming' and wrongly thought no one had posted that. Oh, well.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]
MADem
(135,425 posts)MissB
(15,806 posts)and the freshman-junior class gets princes/princesses. I dunno. My oldest sibling graduated from Marysville/Pilchuck and was homecoming king his senior year. But that was eons ago and things could've changed.
I went to the tribal elementary school on the Tulalip reservation for part of my early elementary years. Even way back then the school was very much immersed in the Native American culture. I still remember the school's song, and I left there in 2nd grade. The tribe had a lot of positive cultural traditions. That being said, I did travel there in my adulthood (to visit an elderly neighbor that my family had kept in touch with) and I remember all the memorial signs along the main road onto the tribal lands. The markers were reminders of folks that had lost their lives drinking and driving along the road. It was shocking, because as a young child I'd been completely unaware of any drinking issues the tribe may have faced. Not saying that this 14-yo from the Tulalip tribe had a family with drinking problems or anything. I just remember the positive culture of the tribe from my childhood and am saddened that this happened in the town I was born and raised in.
MADem
(135,425 posts)what I saw in films--the whole football/prom thing is foreign to me, so who knows?
How fascinating that you were educated in in that school system, even if only for a short time, and it's wonderful that you came away with positive memories.
As for this young shooter, I'm sure we'll learn more as the story rolls out. I understand some of his victims were cousins.
randome
(34,845 posts)The Homecoming Queen's Got A Gun by Julie Brown. It's hilarious. This guy? Not so much.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]