Sat Oct 25, 2014, 04:14 AM

silverweb (16,395 posts)

My 1st hidden post & the National Parks "artist."

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by In_The_Wind (a host of the General Discussion forum).

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Tonight I had my first post ever hidden, and I've been a member for over 13 years now. It was because I used the evil "b" word in reference to the young woman who arrogantly decided that her self-proclaimed title of "artist" entitled her to desecrate our National Parks with her acrylic paintings.

The "b word," to me, means a vile, obnoxious, nasty, selfish female. I haven't really kept up with the word's evolution from just being vulgar to having sexist implications. A feminist myself, I didn't intend any sexist meaning. (There's also a word for vile, obnoxious, nasty, selfish males that starts with a "b," but I've never been scolded for using that one.)

In any case, I greatly appreciate those jurors who kindly understood my reasoning even while disapproving of my angry, knee-jerk word choice for the vile, obnoxious, nasty, selfish female who did the defacing.

For the juror who said I "should know better," I humbly invoke age-related creeping decrepitude for my inattention to linguistic evolution and loss of impulse control. In the heat of the moment, I only recognized my intended meaning (see above), not the relatively new focus on sexist implications.

In any case, you'll all be very happy to know that the word expansion program I use on my computer now prints "__NO!__" whenever I type that evil word, so I won't make the same mistake again no matter how angry I get at someone's vile, obnoxious, nasty, selfish actions.

Adios to my first-ever hidden post... and hopefully my last.

Love you all...

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50 replies	Author	Time	Post
My 1st hidden post & the National Parks "artist." (Original post)	silverweb	Oct 2014	OP
You'll probably get a hide for this	TransitJohn	Oct 2014	#1
Kinda doubt it.	silverweb	Oct 2014	#3
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Oct 2014	#34
This isn't "disruptive" meta. It's CONSTRUCTIVE. It's not dissing the TOS or SOP, or even the	MADem	Oct 2014	#39
Agree!	mountain grammy	Oct 2014	#48
imho "bastard" is inherently gender-neutral	eShirl	Oct 2014	#2
Dictionary.com sort of agrees with you.	silverweb	Oct 2014	#4
The word 'bastard' in Shakespeare's time meant 'base, inferior, low, dishonorable, of little value o	Bluenorthwest	Oct 2014	#19
I've always thought it was a great word, very descriptive and emotive.	MADem	Oct 2014	#40
I've always associated it with males, but then again it is how one looks at the word	davidpdx	Oct 2014	#10
It may be gender neutral, but	Crunchy Frog	Oct 2014	#14
Actually, I thought it was a slam on unmarried parents of both genders	IdaBriggs	Oct 2014	#16
Originally it meant 'low, base, of little worth or value, dishonorable'	Bluenorthwest	Oct 2014	#20
No, it's not	TransitJohn	Oct 2014	#17
+1 Although, that is pretty gender neutral. nt	Live and Learn	Oct 2014	#21
It can also be the result of a religious institution that refuses,	Downwinder	Oct 2014	#33
When you use the term to describe a woman	Live and Learn	Oct 2014	#5
You're absolutely right on all counts.	silverweb	Oct 2014	#7
I really like that idea too.	Live and Learn	Oct 2014	#9
Same here.	silverweb	Oct 2014	#12
I like that idea also	theHandpuppet	Oct 2014	#11
Isn't that the truth?	Live and Learn	Oct 2014	#13
One hidden post in 13 years is pretty good	davidpdx	Oct 2014	#6
True.	silverweb	Oct 2014	#8
not to be obtuse	GusBob	Oct 2014	#22
We show our dogs and usually go out to dinner with dog show friends	newfie11	Oct 2014	#24
Post removed	Post removed	Oct 2014	#15
Same thing happened to me	newfie11	Oct 2014	#18
that story made me very angry as well	GusBob	Oct 2014	#23
Vile, obnoxious, nasty, selfish female	cwydro	Oct 2014	#25
You can say the Bee word on TV, pretty much at any time of day or night.	MADem	Oct 2014	#26
^THIS^	cherokeeprogressive	Oct 2014	#28
Good post.	cwydro	Oct 2014	#29
My feelings exactly. There are words used on DU that are more offensive to me than Female dog.	BlueJazz	Oct 2014	#36
I'm a female.	cwydro	Oct 2014	#38
What you say is true.	BlueJazz	Oct 2014	#46
+1000!	zappaman	Oct 2014	#44
Hypersensitivity and 'political correctness' ...	earthside	Oct 2014	#27
Beautifully articulated. nt	MADem	Oct 2014	#37
Respect for others is a liberal or progressive value	etherealtruth	Oct 2014	#47
It was in response to my post about making the spoiled, selfish brat scrub the shit	notadmblnd	Oct 2014	#30
I never hide posts for just "words" or even an opinion. Now I think about it, I just about ...	BlueJazz	Oct 2014	#31
same here	Duckhunter935	Oct 2014	#42
ya. i was gonna suggest calling her an asshole. but was late at night and didnt bother. so you	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#32
"Expansion"	Iggo	Oct 2014	#35
I think your post should be hidden for the blue text...	Wounded Bear	Oct 2014	#41
I would have let your post remain. I use the "b" word all the time.	kestrel91316	Oct 2014	#43
I was not on the jury, but if I had, I would	avebury	Oct 2014	#45
My last pooch was a bitch, no, really!	mountain grammy	Oct 2014	#49
We have a strong consensus to LOCK.	In_The_Wind	Oct 2014	#50

Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 04:21 AM

TransitJohn (6,930 posts)

1. You'll probably get a hide for this

you're not adhering to the board's predominant orthodoxy.

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Response to TransitJohn (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 04:32 AM

silverweb (16,395 posts)

3. Kinda doubt it.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]But thanks for the warning.

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Response to silverweb (Reply #3)

Name removed Message auto-removed

Response to TransitJohn (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 11:26 AM

MADem (135,425 posts)

39. This isn't "disruptive" meta. It's CONSTRUCTIVE. It's not dissing the TOS or SOP, or even the

site, it's recounting a personal experience in a positive and educational fashion. Only "disruptive" meta (e.g. DU sucks, I hate the rulez, jury can kiss my butt, admins are a buncha meanies, waah waah waah, etc.) is verboten. This OP is a cheery recounting of a personal event.

I've participated in this thread so I'm 'out' but if I were called to adjudge the OP I'd vote LEAVE without thinking twice about it.

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Response to MADem (Reply #39)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 12:31 PM

mountain grammy (25,127 posts)

48. Agree!

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 04:31 AM

eShirl (18,057 posts)

2. imho "bastard" is inherently gender-neutral

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Response to eShirl (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 04:37 AM

silverweb (16,395 posts)

4. Dictionary.com sort of agrees with you.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I've always associated it with males, which dictionary.com also sort of agrees with.

1. a person born of unmarried parents; an illegitimate child.

2. Slang.
(a) a vicious, despicable, or thoroughly disliked person:
Some bastard slashed the tires on my car.

(b) a person, especially a man:
The poor bastard broke his leg.

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Response to silverweb (Reply #4)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 07:55 AM

Bluenorthwest (45,319 posts)

19. The word 'bastard' in Shakespeare's time meant 'base, inferior, low, dishonorable, of little value o

unworthy'. It was the opposite of legitimate. Here is a speech by a 'bastard son' deprived of place and standing by the unloved 'legitimate son', Edmund from King Lear:
Thou, Nature, art my goddess; to thy law
My services are bound. Wherefore should I
Stand in the plague of custom, and permit
The curiosity of nations to deprive me,
For that I am some twelve or fourteen moonshines
Lag of a brother? Why bastard? wherefore base?
When my dimensions are as well compact,
My mind as generous, and my shape as true,
As honest madam's issue? Why brand they us
With base? with baseness? bastardy? base, base?
Who, in the lusty stealth of nature, take
More composition and fierce quality
Than doth, within a dull, stale, tired bed,
Go to th' creating a whole tribe of fops
Got 'tween asleep and wake? Well then,
Legitimate Edgar, I must have your land.
Our father's love is to the bastard Edmund
As to th' legitimate. Fine word- 'legitimate'!
Well, my legitimate, if this letter speed,
And my invention thrive, Edmund the base
Shall top th' legitimate. I grow; I prosper.
Now, gods, stand up for bastards!

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #19)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 11:29 AM

MADem (135,425 posts)

40. I've always thought it was a great word, very descriptive and emotive.

Especially when preceded by descriptors such as "miserable" or "selfish."

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Response to eShirl (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 05:22 AM

davidpdx (22,000 posts)

10. I've always associated it with males, but then again it is how one looks at the word

I would bet if you asked a group of 10 people they'd probably be pretty much split down the middle.

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Response to eShirl (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 06:27 AM

Crunchy Frog (26,263 posts)

14. It may be gender neutral, but

it's actually an attack on the person's mother for being a "slut", rather than an attack on the person themselves. In that sense, I'd say that it's inherenly sexist, since we never insult people over their fathers' alleged sexual behavior.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #14)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 07:02 AM

IdaBriggs (10,559 posts)

16. Actually, I thought it was a slam on unmarried parents of both genders

when used as it was originally meant.

There are still cultures where being born out of wedlock impacts social standing, up to and including educational opportunities and jobs.

Friends who adopted from Ukraine, for example, have told me that "orphan - without family" (due to death or more commonly parental abandonment) stays on all government issued identification for life.

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Response to IdaBriggs (Reply #16)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 07:59 AM

Bluenorthwest (45,319 posts)

20. Originally it meant 'low, base, of little worth or value, dishonorable'

The status of 'bastard' was lifelong, the child was the one punished by law and by society. It meant not inheriting anything, including name and title and property. It meant nothing but loss of position, rights, money and standing.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #14)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 07:06 AM

TransitJohn (6,930 posts)

17. No, it's not

It's an attack on the person's 'low' birth.

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Response to TransitJohn (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 07:59 AM

Live and Learn (12,769 posts)

21. +1 Although, that is pretty gender neutral. nt

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #14)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 10:15 AM

Downwinder (12,869 posts)

33. It can also be the result of a religious institution that refuses,

for one reason or another, to accept a marriage.

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 05:03 AM

Live and Learn (12,769 posts)

5. When you use the term to describe a woman

(or to portray a man acting like a woman) it is sexist by definition. And, it has always been so. Even if you didn't mean it to be so. Of course most of us our guilty of using the term (or witch, which is no better) on occasion but we shouldn't.

I wouldn't have alerted on you but I personally detest the word. I too am guilty of having used it (although never in writing). It really has been ingrained in us.

Perhaps people should be given a chance to change their posts when it is just a word that was the cause of the alert.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 05:13 AM

silverweb (16,395 posts)

7. You're absolutely right on all counts.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I especially love your last idea about giving people the opportunity to edit their post to avoid hiding, especially if it's just a poor choice of words that got them in trouble.

In fact, I did decline to hide a post on one occasion not too long ago and suggested that exact thing to the poster in my comment: Just do some editing.

Thanks for your very fair comments.

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Response to silverweb (Reply #7)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 05:19 AM

Live and Learn (12,769 posts)

9. I really like that idea too.

Sorry you got a post hidden but it is really easy to have happen these days so I wouldn't worry about it.

As a juror, I always take the entire post in to account (and view the entire thread). I very rarely vote to hide.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #9)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 05:32 AM

silverweb (16,395 posts)

12. Same here.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I'm not upset that the post was hidden, just that I didn't have the chance to edit it first or explain my error in that thread -- which is why I started this thread to do so.

Yes, based on some of the alerts I've seen, it really is easy to get a post hidden.

About done in, so I'm off to bed. Thanks!

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 05:30 AM

theHandpuppet (19,964 posts)

11. I like that idea also

Giving people a chance to edit their posts. We all make mistakes.

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Response to theHandpuppet (Reply #11)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 06:05 AM

Live and Learn (12,769 posts)

13. Isn't that the truth?

Last edited Sat Oct 25, 2014, 07:58 AM - Edit history (1)

I can't believe how many times I have to edit some of my posts. Especially, those written in the heat of the moment.

On edit: And now I can add this post to the list. lol

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 05:04 AM

davidpdx (22,000 posts)

6. One hidden post in 13 years is pretty good

Yeah, I'd stay far far away from saying that word in any context on DU.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 05:15 AM

silverweb (16,395 posts)

8. True.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]On both counts. Thanks.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 08:20 AM

GusBob (7,137 posts)

22. not to be obtuse

And I don't use the word but is it not the commonly used word for a female dog?
I mean by breeders and such? Is it ok to use it in that context?

Also sometimes heard: " to b and moan"

Or used by some hipsters to describe something cool ( rhymes with itching)

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Response to GusBob (Reply #22)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 08:35 AM

newfie11 (8,159 posts)

24. We show our dogs and usually go out to dinner with dog show friends

Of course we talk dog and that B word is used often and without thinking about non dog folks around. No one has said anything but perhaps they realize there is a dog show in town.

I have had to have talks with my grandkids about using that word in the general public😄.

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Post removed

Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 07:31 AM

newfie11 (8,159 posts)

18. Same thing happened to me

Who knew that would be a big deal. Btw I'm female😊and have been known to be one.

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 08:29 AM

GusBob (7,137 posts)

23. that story made me very angry as well

Worse words went thru my mind

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 09:00 AM

cwydro (48,532 posts)

25. Vile, obnoxious, nasty, selfish female

is exactly even better than the b word.

Though I would not have voted to hide. People make too much of some words.

But your excellent description without using that word shows exactly how profanity is not needed. So many posters here just love to use the "f word" around here. I reckon they think it makes them look touch.

No, just vocabulary deprived.

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 09:35 AM

MADem (135,425 posts)

26. You can say the Bee word on TV, pretty much at any time of day or night.

You can't say it on DU.

The Ladies of The View and The Talk can say it, but you cannot. You can hear it on entertainment shows, movies, television series (one even had it in the title of the show) but don't type it here or risk disapprobation.

Rappers can rap it, actors can shout it, and you will see it in literature, in magazines, and even in empowering FEMINIST webpages, but say it here on DU and you will have your "a-word" handed to you.

That is a word that is censored here and has been for awhile. The whole "names will never hurt me" vibe is not operative on this site, which can be problematic. There is a deliberate refusal to see context in some corners. You just have to roll with it, or risk hides and alert stalking.

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Response to MADem (Reply #26)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 09:42 AM

cherokeeprogressive (24,853 posts)

28. ^THIS^

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Response to MADem (Reply #26)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 09:44 AM

cwydro (48,532 posts)

29. Good post.

Nail on head.

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Response to MADem (Reply #26)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 10:29 AM

BlueJazz (25,348 posts)

36. My feelings exactly. There are words used on DU that are more offensive to me than Female dog.

But,,, (put hand on hip and speak with a smirk and whine) "I don't LIKE that worrrrd"

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #36)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 11:26 AM

cwydro (48,532 posts)

38. I'm a female.

And the word does not bother me either.

And there are those of both sexes who fit that word. Dogs are another thing altogether.

They are wonderful animals. Period.

People just put too much weight in words. And when you do that, you let those who use the words win, imo.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #38)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 12:19 PM

BlueJazz (25,348 posts)

46. What you say is true.

I equate some of the thoughts/actions on this forum with scenarios like (outside of the forum), when people say: "I don't want my money and tax dollars to be used for Planned Parenthood"
Which, of course, returns the answer: Fine, and I don't want my tax dollars to be used for phony wars"

There has to be give and take in everything and sending somebody to the courtroom for saying YOUR naughty word is as bad as saying..I'm gonna' tell my Mom on you!

Geez...

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Response to MADem (Reply #26)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 12:15 PM

zappaman (20,587 posts)

44. +1000!

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 09:38 AM

earthside (6,960 posts)

27. Hypersensitivity and 'political correctness' ...

... are invidious and corrosive to progressivism.

The 'thought' and 'word' police breed anger from those we are seeking to persuade.
They ultimately become Robespierrian victims of their own 'purity'.

Censorship is not a liberal or progressive value.

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Response to earthside (Reply #27)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 11:20 AM

MADem (135,425 posts)

37. Beautifully articulated. nt

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Response to earthside (Reply #27)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 12:28 PM

etherealtruth (22,165 posts)

47. Respect for others is a liberal or progressive value

It is irrelevant whether you are offended or whether I am offended .... there are a significant amount of folk that are. Part of civil discourse is NOT to use words or terms that many find disrespectful, offensive or inflammatory.

I have yet to hear anyone support censorship; i have heard folk insist that when in their space (DU for example) one follow the established "rules" of civility (which is a far cry from censorship)

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 09:52 AM

notadmblnd (23,720 posts)

30. It was in response to my post about making the spoiled, selfish brat scrub the shit

off the monuments she defaced. You pointed out that it was not chalk. I just want to let you know that I did not take offense to the word and I did not alert.

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 09:52 AM

BlueJazz (25,348 posts)

31. I never hide posts for just "words" or even an opinion. Now I think about it, I just about ...

...never hide posts. (maybe 1/60)
If you have me on the jury, you only have to worry about the other 6.

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #31)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 12:04 PM

Duckhunter935 (16,974 posts)

42. same here

I set the bar very high in favor of free speech.

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 09:58 AM

seabeyond (110,159 posts)

32. ya. i was gonna suggest calling her an asshole. but was late at night and didnt bother. so you

got a hide. good to know. using sexist slurs goes about 50/50 on du.

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 10:22 AM

Iggo (46,295 posts)

35. "Expansion"

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 11:30 AM

Wounded Bear (54,867 posts)

41. I think your post should be hidden for the blue text...

J/K.

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 12:10 PM

kestrel91316 (51,666 posts)

43. I would have let your post remain. I use the "b" word all the time.

It isn't sexist in the least. I define it the same way you do.

DU is full of too many thought police with too much time on their hands. The feminists hate me in spite of my decades of feminism. The animal lovers hate me in spite of my career spent helping them for far too little reward. And the LGBT hate me for various and sundry reasons in spite of my decades of unwavering support for them.

So don't let it bother you.

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 12:19 PM

avebury (10,810 posts)

45. I was not on the jury, but if I had, I would

have voted to leave it. I saw nothing worthy of alerting on it.

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 12:36 PM

mountain grammy (25,127 posts)

49. My last pooch was a bitch, no, really!

I like your post. Way to rise above the fray!

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Response to silverweb (Original post)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 12:54 PM

In_The_Wind (72,300 posts)

50. We have a strong consensus to LOCK.

Statement of Purpose

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum. Conspiracy theories and disruptive meta-discussion are forbidden.

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