How and why has the Confederate flag symbol become popular up North?

[Ampersand Unicode]

I was shopping at Sears today and saw a pickup truck with a Stars & Bars "plate" on the front license tag holder.

There is a restaurant-bar in the beach town of Westport, MA that very proudly lets the Stars & Bars wave in the wind.

And in February of last year, Taunton, MA GOP state senator Shauna O'Connell posted a picture on her Facebook page of a snowman (snowgirl?) wearing a bikini that had a Confederate flag pattern.

Weren't the Northerners once abolitionists, especially in New England? How and when did this happen that the Confederate flag symbol even became visible at all in Northern states? Or was there always a certain Johnny Reb element in New England that seems to just be rearing its ugly head more publicly since 2008?

More importantly, how did this once staunchly blue Kennedy state suddenly experience an influx of GOP wingnuts in powerful positions (Brown, Romney, possibly Baker)?

Is all of this a response to Obama (and/or Patrick) like it clearly is in the former Confederate states themselves? I honestly can't figure out why and how this detestable and disgusting symbol, which I would put on par with the Nazi flag in terms of signifying abject hatred and suffering of innocent human beings, seems to have become relatively commonplace in a state that once prided itself on carrying the torch for JFK's mission of civil rights. Maybe some of you here, especially any Bay Staters who may have seen and also been alarmed by this growing trend, can enlighten me on the disturbing shift. I'm a student of history myself and would appreciate if someone can fill me in.

[Warpy]

1. Up north, it's a pretty good asshole indicator.

I've always used it as early warning to avoid whoever is displaying it. It's been useful in that regard as those people have always exposed their assholery sooner or later.

[Ampersand Unicode]

3. Has it become more popular since Obama/Patrick?

Or are these just isolated "assholes" as you say?

[Warpy]

13. It was always featured prominently at biker bars

and in the dorm rooms of a few witless southerners who didn't understand how poorly it was received outside of white suburbs in the south. Other than that, I saw it mainly on pickup trucks and muscle cars in the more rural parts of New England, more in New Hampshire than Mass.

I left 20 years ago so I don't know if it has gotten more popular. There have always been bigots and white trash in New England, neither relying on economic status. I just saw less of it there than I have seen in other parts of the country.

As I said, it always screamed "HEY EVERYBODY, I'M AN ASSHOLE!" so I found it extremely useful.

[Paladin]

15. Down south, it serves the same purpose. Never doubt it. (nt)

[Warpy]

17. I didn't find it that way when I lived there

They might have been provincial jerks but they didn't drop to the level of assholes.

[Paladin]

37. Provencial jerks displaying Confederate flags=Assholes, whether N. or S. of Mason-Dixon Line.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Hoyt]

2. Racists are everywhere. I do think Obama has brought some out from their cesspool.

[Botany]

4. Because the people flying the "Stars and Bars" don't like people that are not like them

The bottom line is that Confederate States were fighting to keep people as slaves
anything else is pure bullshit.

[Cirque du So-What]

11. How can one not see

that flying that flag is merely a wistfully nostalgic hearkening back to southern gentility and chivalry? It's just cultural hearkening, I tell ya!

[Botany]

40. And many of these red neck yahoos sport American flags too because they are "patriots" ....

.... who love America but fail to think that the goal of the CSA was the destruction of
United States of America .... And they clain to be Christians too.

[Ampersand Unicode]

22. I just can't believe it's 2014 and we're still seeing this crap.

I also can't believe the mentality of people who object to the rainbow inclusion/equality flag as though it, too, is a "hate symbol" that "targets Christians." Methinks they protest too much and don't like it when their own hatred is whipping right back at them.

The rainbow flag is a flag of humanity. The Confederate flag is a flag of hate. Ideally, the U.S. flag would symbolize inclusion of everyone as well, though we all know that the U.S. as a country does not. Maybe it's time to replace the red and white stripes with a ROYGBIV pattern?

[angel123]

5. confederate flag in massaccuhetts

have you forgotten the reaction to busing in Boston? sort of the same thing, maybe.

[Ampersand Unicode]

18. Was that the riot where the black guy got stabbed with a flagpole?

I wasn't around in the 1970s when that happened. But it was the '70s and so I was just assuming (I guess wrongly) that 40 years would give people time to learn their lesson.

Guess I was wrong.

[lunasun]

6. Northern Illinois too it has become more prevalent. Nazi flag? Give em a little more time

Northern states picking up the confederate flag is just another sign of a nation in decay imo
Give a heads up to kids on what it stands for and even the difference from it being flown down south
ie clear meaning and can not hide behind it is our history crap

[Ampersand Unicode]

20. That's why the GOP is fighting against "liberal history" classes

They don't want schoolkids to learn the truth. Better to warp the narrative as though displaying symbols of hatred is as American as apple pie. Because "freedom of speech" is a sacrosanct commandment and anyone who objects to the display of the Stars & Bars or swastika is a filthy godless communist who hates liberty.

I use "liberal history" in scare quotes to distinguish from the nationalistic Bircher crap that they want to install in Common Core. See for example the campaign in Colorado.

[lunasun]

44. Completely agree and what better place than early school to plant the seed

[sabbat hunter]

53. Illinois Nazis

I hate Illinois Nazis.

[lunasun]

60. Still around but have splintered from skinheads and nsm so not a united front here anymore

Illinois meetups happen in Dixon, IL through a guy named Tim and are at most, two times a year. Outside of that there are no formal meetings. Anytime a few members get together, it is considered to be a “meeting”. The annual Christmas party used to happen at the redneck shop, which is no longer ran by racists. There is also a national ANP meeting every year in Michigan, where their leader Rocky Suhayda is from.

Allies and enemies:

The ANP are allies with no one. They hate all other organizations especially the NSM. They say that the ANP “cares about every one of their members unlike other groups”.

During the tasty dinner date, in which they paid for, Paul and Tony were also very adamant about not dressing like a skinhead. They want members to be clean cut and normal looking, aside from at get togethers where they wear nazi uniforms.

[Art_from_Ark]

65. Dixon, Illinois

Ironically (or perhaps not), the boyhood home of Ronald Reagan.

[Action_Patrol]

68. 4 fried chickens and a coke

Thank you.

[amandabeech]

71. And two slices of plain white toast. n/t

[Bigmack]

7. Because Confederates still...

... push "the Cause".

Everywhere...


"Soon after plans for the transcontinental Lincoln Highway (one of the best remembered “auto trails", as they were often called) were announced in 1912, the southern ladies of the United Daughters of the Confederacy countered with a plan of their own for a southern “coast to coast rock highway” to honor their president(Jefferson Davis).
The UDC women started out slowly but fought hard for the legitimacy of their road, although they would do no actual road building. Their plan was to designate a southern route, a selection of connected already-existing roads, as the Jefferson Davis Highway. Then they would put all of their efforts and limited funds into roadside beautification, highway promotion, and lobbying to get the route recognized by the various state legislatures through which it passed."

The Jefferson Davis Memorial Hiway runs across the country, turns north at San Diego, and runs all the way thru Oregon and Washington to the border with Canada.

A US hiway named for a traitor...The Confederates never give up.

[rogerashton]

32. Just a note in passing --

All of the auto trails, including the Lincoln Highway, were put together from existing roads -- with, at most, few local exceptions.

Route 6, "The Roosevelt Highway," was new construction in PA though.

Off the topic, but I love those old roads.

[Throd]

8. Here in NorCal, people who display it think it makes them a "bad-ass".

I would separate those words and say it makes them a bad person who is an ass.

[cali]

9. there has always been some of that in northern states.

[Jenoch]

10. In Minnesota,

only rarely do I ever see that symbol and even rarer an actual flag.

[Brickbat]

26. I see it on the Range and in small towns.

[Jenoch]

33. I live in a northern Twin Cities suburb.

I spend time in Itasca County where we have some land. I'll have to make an attempt to see if I can spot the image.

[Brickbat]

36. I don't remember seeing it when I lived in a rural area north of the Cities...

but I do think it's more common now than it was when I lived down there. I see it regularly because a truck in the town I live nearest to has one.

[pstokely]

48. I saw one on a car near River Falls WI 15 years ago

nt

[giftedgirl77]

12. I saw a Canadian flag with a Confederate flag below it...

Explain that one.

[Ampersand Unicode]

16. Two separate flags?

Or a DIY "Canadian Confederate" flag, the Stars & Bars with a maple leaf in the middle?

Wow, I'm shocked. But then again, wasn't that where the Loyalists fled to after the Revolutionary War? In that case there might still be an old "Anglo pride" element that infected our neighbor to the north too.

Either that or it's a symbol of those "survivalist" types living in their hibernation caves in snow country.

[giftedgirl77]

19. No, stacked on a flag pole....

One on top of the other....It is the craziest shit I have seen.

[Ampersand Unicode]

27. Flag decorum says that means Canada is at war with the Confederacy.

Unless that's only a U.S. thing, that flying the flag of another nation on the same pole as the U.S. flag means that the U.S. is at war with that country.

If it's an international thing, then that person, whether s/he knows it or not, is indicating that Canada is at war with a country that doesn't even exist anymore. That makes the person look even more of an idiot than s/he would be for just flying the Stars & Bars at all.

Paging John Kennedy Toole... because man, talk about a confederacy of dunces.

[giftedgirl77]

31. Well in SC the fly the SC flag then the Confederate flag

right below it. I think they were doing the same thing. Not to mention it was at a NASCAR race that I was dragged to against my will, so I'm gonna go with it was some sort of sign of solidarity which is really weird.

[eppur_se_muova]

63. I believe it's OK to fly national and state flags together (US flag uppermost). But ...

SC is flying the Confederate flag just to poke people in the eye, so it's wrong however it's done.

[giftedgirl77]

64. I just find it moronic to the umpteenth of stupidity

that a Canadian would be able to rationalize the waving of the Confederate flag.

[Frustratedlady]

14. People move and take their beliefs with them.

Their families may have been from the South and supported the Confederates, so they carry on the tradition. I doubt it will happen in my lifetime, but it wouldn't surprise me if before many years, we have another north and south to the US.

[Orrex]

21. Because it's still considered rude to drag the corpse of a slave behind your truck

[customerserviceguy]

23. It's kind of a country vs. city thing

At least that's how it was explained to me when I lived on the Olympic Peninsula in WA state. Is that code for racism? Maybe yes, maybe no, some folks just don't read history books.

[mmonk]

34. Pretty much, you are correct.

I'm from the South and people in metro areas of state don't fly it, it's when you get into the countryside. Same thing with flying the Gadsden flag now.

[eShirl]

38. what the hell is that supposed to mean?

[customerserviceguy]

41. I doubt that a lot of people who adopted the Confederate flag

as something to stick on the back of a vehicle are terribly aware of it's place in history, that's all.

I assume that's what you were asking about, correct me if I'm wrong.

[liberal_at_heart]

70. I live in WA. When I lived in the suburbs I never saw a confederate flag. Now that I'm in the

country I see them all the time.

[HereSince1628]

24. IMO in Wisconsin it's a popular symbol of rebelliousnes better recognized than

the Gadsden Flag

[Ampersand Unicode]

30. The "don't tread on me" flag with the snake?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the two lunatics who shot the Wal-Mart cop in Nevada -- Clive Bundy's pals -- stab the cop's dead body with a "don't tread on me" flag on a pole, like the aforementioned anti-integration guy did during the Boston busing riots in the '70s? At least that was how I understood it, that they just plunked it in his corpse like Neil Armstrong setting down the U.S. flag on lunar soil.

If so, that's pretty sick. Doesn't surprise me that the snake flag is a tea party symbol too.

[HereSince1628]

35. Might have been... I dunno

[Pathwalker]

25. They've been in Michigan since at least 1969, when I moved here.

Nixon was President then. They've been here EVER SINCE.

[amandabeech]

74. I grew up in western lower Michigan, and still visit there frequently.

I'm in my late '50s, and I've only seen one. It was attached to a pickup with Illinois plates near a rec area popular with motorheads.

There are quite a few folks in SE Michigan whose families came from Kentucky and other parts of Appalachia, especially around Ypsilanti. That's still a rough area.

[valerief]

28. I think it happened in the 80s when country music infected the region. nt

[upaloopa]

29. Until recently that flag was no big deal to white people.

It hasn't just got popular it just hasn't gone away.

[eShirl]

39. They like identifying with losers?

[Tom Ripley]

66. +1000000000000000000

[Oilwellian]

42. A lot of neo-nazi groups have adopted the flag

and they're all over the country.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map#s=VA

[lunasun]

45. I believe that more than it is all southerners who have relocated and bring it with them north

It is a sign of hate not a sign of origin at this point

[pstokely]

51. How many Southerners move North?

More Yankees moving South than Southerners moving North

http://www.mindspring.com/~toxiccow/14_0378.html

[lunasun]

52. I know but it was used in a post here as a reason

(14) along with another post speculating people used it but did not know its history
Who would fly a flag or intentionally buy and apply a sticker they did not know what it represented in 2014

[csziggy]

43. Not all Northerners were Abolitionists

Even the Quakers had a major split over the issue of slavery in 1842:

It was slavery and abolition that caused great tension and a split amongst the Friends of the 1840’s and 50’s. Quakers were well-established in Indiana politics by the 1840’s. They were officeholders and state legislators, usually members of the Whig party and solidly anti-slavery. Indiana’s first anti-slavery newspaper, the "Protectionist", was published by a New England Quaker in a room over Levi Coffin’s store in Newport. Another journal published in Newport was the "Free Labor Advocate". This was the journal of the Free Labor Movement which advocated discontinuing the use of, or purchase of, any goods or foodstuffs made or raised with the use of slave labor. This cause was championed by Abolitionist leader Levi Coffin and Free Labor stores where opened by several Quakers in the Whitewater Valley. Abolitionist Friends wrote for both of the journals to the great dismay of more moderate Hoosier Quakers. They also founded, and joined, abolitionist societies. This, most moderate and conservative Friends felt, was against the Quaker notion of appropriate quiet and retiring demeanor. Membership in Abolition Societies brought far too much notoriety to such members and disrupted the notion of unity, so valued by Friends. In 1842 Levi Coffin and other influential Friends were disciplined by the Yearly Meeting for their outspoken, and very public behavior, relating to slavery. The next day the Meeting welcomed slave owner Henry Clay as an honored guest. Outraged, the Anti-slavery friends retired to Newport and formed the Indiana Yearly Meeting of Anti-Slavery Friends. Levi Coffin, Charles Osborn and Henry Weeks were among the leaders of the Indiana Anti-Slavery Friends. The orthodox Friends were much grieved by the split. But, by 1857, these Friends had become, for the most part, abolitionists themselves. That year the Indiana Yearly Meeting of Anti-Slavery Friends dissolved and most members rejoined the Indiana Yearly Meeting. (Rudolph: 203-205; See Hamm: Chapter9A. Quakers and African Americans)
http://www.connerprairie.org/Learn-And-Do/Indiana-History/America-1860-1900/Quakers-In-Indiana.aspx

One of my husband's ancestors was at that 1842 Yearly Meeting and his mother has letters from him to his wife narrating the events of the 1842 split. Until I scanned and transcribed those letters I had never heard of this!

[eridani]

46. Because white racism is everywhere n/t

[JI7]

47. it pretty much represents racism, and there are racists outside of the south also

deep blue states like california, mass, new york etc have bigoted ignorant fucks also.

just like there will be liberals in deep red states.

[Jamastiene]

56. Exactly. n/t

[appalachiablue]

59. True. Thanks for stating this.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

49. Except it's not "popular" here.

Those stick figure families and Jesus/Darwin/Evolve fishes might be popular. Bumper stickers that say My kid is an honor student at _____ are popular. Red Sox stickers are popular. A confederate flag sticks out like a sore thumb here (I live about 10 minutes from Westport). The fact that you had to pick out three or four random incidents pretty much says it's noticeably not acceptable up here.

I have seen a Confederate flag sticker in Mass/RI on a truck maybe once in the last year. And I think the plate was from Pennsylvania (which makes more sense)

And as far as GOP wingnuts....Brown, Romney and Baker as bad as they are cannot hold a candle to the likes of MCConnell, Vitter, Sessions, Haley, etc....who would never get elected here. Those three are just good con artists, and they start to stink like rotten fish after awhile.

[GeorgeGist]

50. EEEgnorance knows no borders.

[alarimer]

54. And how did the "Party of Lincoln" turn into the party of the Confederacy.

Seems like a contradiction there.

[hifiguy]

62. A. The Clvil Rights Act.

B. The Voting Rights Act.
C. The Great Society.

So the short answer is Lyndon B. Johnson, who turned his back on the Southern racists in the Democratic Party. So over the course of about 10-15 years they all converted to the Repukes, with Nixon and later Raygun encouraging the racists, nativists and reactionary hammerheads, Nixon covertly, Reagan overtly.

[Jamastiene]

55. Hate groups, including neo-confederate hate groups,

have existed all over America, since long before Obama was elected. Surprisingly, in any given year, some of the bluest states have the most hate groups.

I'm not saying all of those people displaying the flag are IN those hate groups, but they certainly share the mentality.

More info:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/neo-confederate
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map

[FSogol]

57. Why? Because you are vastly simplifilng both people and history.

Even during the Civil War, all Northerners were not abolitionists.

As for the spread of the confederate, flag here are some reasons

1. Racism
2. Love of Southern Heritage
3. County Music
4. Bikers
5. Rebel and other anti-government notions
6. Any mixture of the above.

(Of course, you shouldn't simplify it further to say that all lovers of Country music are racists, because that would be wrong too.)

[lunasun]

67. Does county music use the flag in videos a lot or reference it in songs? I never listen so i was

wWondering how it gave rise to more confederate flags seen now than before . Thanks

[FSogol]

69. That flag definitely is prominent in concert t-shirts and CD covers.

Like anything else, it depends on the band.

[True Blue Door]

58. Because some people are just ignorant, racist idiots

who will fly the flag of a treasonous enemy nation over the country they claim to love and still consider themselves patriots.

[hifiguy]

61. There are ignorant, racist, reactionary assholes

in all 50 states. The Stupid Belt exists everywhere.

[seabeyond]

72. just one way of identifying the racists. and they proudly have it on display. nt

[Arugula Latte]

73. Because the words "I'm a Wilfully Ignorant Dumbass Racist Who Longs for the Days of Slavery"

don't fit on a regular-size flag.