Why I'm proud to be a liberal

[coldean]

I heard a question on tv quite some time back and the answer to that question was a real eye opener and has stuck with me over the years.

W: Why don't liberals stick together on all their issues like conservatives do, you hear them bickering back and forth with each other often?
A: Because liberals are FREE THINKERS. We have an open mind and our own opinions. We do not go around acting like robots and spew the exact same messages that conservatives have rehearsed. Sure all liberals want the same outcome but our opinion may differ on how to get there.

This is so very true and this answer makes me proud to be a member of the liberal community. It's what we teach our children. To be themselves, to think for themselves and to use their brain.
So why are we so quick to attack other liberals when they have a different opinion? So quick to accuse them of not being a liberal just because they criticize a liberal president or other politicians?

We need to stop acting like conservatives and stop demanding that all liberals must agree with how all liberal politicians conduct their business. Stop attacking liberals who have a different opinion on the things our president does. We do not have to think the same to call ourselves liberals, we are not robots. When someone who has differing opinions than you call themselves a liberal who are you to question their party?

We need to value other inputs from our fellow liberals and agree to disagree if you have to.

THIS IS THE WAY WE EXPECT OUR COUNTRY TO TREAT OUR CITIZENS SO LET'S START BY TREATING EACH OTHER THIS WAY!

[MineralMan]

1. "But, see, if you don't think as I do about everything, it's clear

you aren't a liberal at all." That appears to be the problem. Too many people think like that quote and it interferes with creating a community that has enough members to accomplish much. As long as we eat our own, others are going to eat our lunch.

[Maedhros]

3. But you must admit that the term "Liberal" is being co-opted.

"Liberals" that support the TPP, wars of choice, ignoring habeus corpus, a President that claims the power to execute citizens without due process, blanket surveillance, etc. That's more than just "you don't think like I do," it's a complete abandonment of traditional Liberal values.

"Liberal" has to actually mean something, or else it's just a label.

[MineralMan]

6. It's a difficult word to define, actually, and has had a number of

different meanings over time. You have a definition. Others have different definitions. It's a tough word. Each person interprets the word differently. I am a liberal. You probably do not think I am a liberal. We define the word differently, I imagine.

[whatchamacallit]

41. Thanks

for nothing.

[Maedhros]

42. Sorry, but that is just dissembling.

I question if you even really believe what you are posting.

From its inception, Liberalism has as its core values the belief in freedom, equal rights and limiting the power of oppressive governments. Each of the policies I specified in my previous post are in direct opposition to each of these ideals.

I get it - you're just happy to play the partisan game. Fine. But don't try and pretend that corporate-friendly trade agreements, security-state tactics and unitary executive power are "liberal."

[sabrina 1]

12. 'A rose by any other name would smell as sweet'. People can call themselves whatever they

want, which is why judging people by their words is a big mistake. Better to watch their actions, how many excuses the make, eg, for supporting non-Liberal policies. It's not hard to see who is a pretend liberal and who is not actually. I know THEY think they are fooling people.

Eg, if the word liberal means supporting the Chained CPI, or forever war, or excusing torture, or refusing to hold War and Wall St criminals accountable, making excuses for such non-liberal povs, then it would be best to let them have the word, which doesn't change who they are, but indicates an attempt to deceive. There are plenty of words that actual liberals can adapt and maybe it's time to do that.

[coldean]

18. I get what you are saying

However think about what you posted
" It's not hard to see who is a pretend liberal and who is not actually. I know THEY think they are fooling people. "

Why would anyone pretend to be a liberal? Why are they trying to fool anyone"

Are they bored? Are they spies? Just plain liars?
Don't you think it makes more sense that they just disagree with some of your views? That maybe it's easier to call someone a fake than it is to accept that another educated person feels differently than you?

[sabrina 1]

20. Have you heard of the DLC, the Third Way? Neocons/libs? Corporate power over our electoral

system?

Those Corporate entities which include the MIC, succeeded over several decades in taking over the Republican Party.

Some of the goals of these right wing entities include the Privatization of every public fund, Education, almost accomplished starting with Bush's NCLB, the big Prize, SS, impossible to do with just Republicans, as Dems traditionally fought them off.

But with the infiltration of the Dem Party by the DLC who ALSO agree re Privatization of every Public Fund, and on Foreign Policy interventionism among other things, the takeover of the Dem Party by those same Corporate Entities began approx 25 years ago.

When the base of the party began to figure out WHY the Dem Party seemed to changing and leaning more right and pointed directly AT the DLCers in the Party, they changed their name to the Third Way.

Why do they do what they do? Why do they 'think' differently from actual Dems, because they ARE different, they are Center Right, in agreement with Republicans on almost everything, other than Women, Gays and Minorities, they actually don't care much about those issues, but USE them to get their 'liberal creds'.

Money flows from Corporate interests to both parties now. What we have is one and a half parties now working for Corporate America.

It's kind of brilliant when you think about it. They NEEDED at least half the Dems on board to get Education funds privatized, SS 'on the table' etc Forever War etc, and Wall St OFF the Hook no matter how corrupt they are, and they got it.

No actual Democrat would try to destroy the Public School System, or try to excuse or explain why their own party is now participating in achieving that goal. That is how you know they are fake, phony, corporate tools.

[coldean]

22. LOL

That's damn good bud your smoking friend

[sabrina 1]

24. Lol, that really was a nice try, but I had, shall we say, a feeling about this OP.

'Smoking OUT' perhaps is what you meant.

[coldean]

26. Look the only thing I'm trying to get across

Is that you are no better than I am
I am not superior to you
We may disagree on some things but we want the same things!

When you start acting like you are better than others, that you are more deserving of your liberal title
WE ARE ACTING LIKE RACIST BIGOTED CONSERVATIVES!

[sabrina 1]

28. You asked a question, I answered it, you then launched a personal attack.

Now you have launched another one. Please link to where I claimed to be 'better than' anyone?

That is a typical claim made against the Left whenever they state inconvenient facts.

If you don't agree with my assessment of the Dem Party's Third Way wing, then why attack, why not simply prove me wrong?

If I am wrong, that should not be difficult.

Instead you went from appearing to be sincere about 'wondering' about liberals, to the same old 'you think you're better than me' talking point used so often against the perceived 'left'.

I am interested to see where expressing an opinion politiely, minus any personal attack = 'you think you're better than me'. If you can point it out, I will certainly apologize for it.

[coldean]

29. I answered your questions

But I was not talking about you.
I was talking about people in general who pick apart liberals because of their opinions.
I didn't mean that YOU think you are better than anyone.
When I say "you" I mean the general you.
You have not posted anything for me to attack so I don't see why you think I was personally attacking you or anyone.
I started this thread only because it's a pet peeve to see my fellow liberals attack each other's differing opinions, this thread and the questions I have answered was not geared at all to anyone specific.

I do apologize if you felt offended that was not my intention!
Now I do realize I accused you of being high and paranoid. That was rude but really it was a lame joke
No hard feelings?

[sabrina 1]

30. I never harbor hard feelings for people on internet forums. My only reason

for being on these forums from the beginning, was to make sure I was not the only person in the world who thought Bush/Cheney were insane and needed to be stopped.

I do care about facts, and posted a few which obviously you do not acknowledge, which is fine. I suppose I could go to the trouble of proving them to be accurate, but it's just not that important to me. I know that most Dems already know those facts which is why there is so much dissatisfaction within the Party right now.

Take it or leave it, facts are facts, it took me a while to accept it also.

As for personal attacks I don't much care about them one way or the other, but will always correct wrong accusations.

I appreciate your apology however. I would have preferred if you had chosen to discuss the points I mad in post #20, but DU is no longer a place where people engage much in discussion. Which only proves the division in the party.

[coldean]

32. Well we are all people and I don't like being offended

And I don't like to offend others just because they are sharing their opinions.
As for your post #20, again I apologize for not sharing my opinion on that with you.
To be perfectly honest it really sounds like paranoia for the most part.
Not that I don't think it happens because I'm sure it has and does and I agree with you that it is genius.
However I don't think it's a good enough excuse to attack the differing opinions of other liberals.

It's more likely to me that a liberal who had a different opinion on one issue was raised a certain way and that value just kind of stuck you know?
I want to also make sure that I get across the point that I realize liberals have core values and for the most part we need to stick together on them however we may have different ideas on how to do that. Or that it's only one or maybe two issues that a liberal may lean a little to the right on most likely because they were raised that way or a traumatic even happened in their life that made them feel the way they do.

These are only my opinions, I realize not everyone agrees but I do appreciate you asking for my opinions.

[sabrina 1]

34. Thank you for expressing your opinion. The fact is that the Third Way, formerly the DLC, does exist

and they are proud of their positions on policies, despite those policies being Center Right. I and many others here were NOT aware of them initially, although it was difficult to understand why any Democrat would eg, vote to remove the checks and balances on Wall St. which led to the economic crash that caused so many ordinary people to lose their jobs and their homes.

The Glass Steagal Act was put in place after the crash of 1929 to avoid such a disaster ever happening again. The Act regulated the Banks and it helped prevent what happened in 2008. Republicans HATED those regulations and for years tried to DEREGULATE the Banks. To get rid of the Glass Steagal Act. But in the end, it was a Democratic President, who we all loved and defended, who finally gave them what they had wanted for so long.

Deregulation allowed the rampant corruption that collapsed the World's economies. No actual Liberal Democrat would have agreed to that. But a DLCer would and did.

I think you might want to look at the Third Way's website. I doubt any Liberal would agree that the SS fund should be privatized and invested in the Market. Especially if they remember Enron.

The Third Way Dems are Center Right and are closer on policies to Republicans on almost every issue, than they are to Dems. And they vote WITH Republicans on Financial issues and Foreign Policy issues. They are well funded, which is easily checked, by Big Corporations and that is who they represent.

Paranoia? Hardly since there is no question of their existence in our party and their own website tells us what they are all about.

And they have caused a huge split in the Dem Party. If you want proof, just say so and I will be happy to provide it. I as a Liberal have very little in common with their politics, and I am far from alone.

[RobertEarl]

35. Heh

Just a thought here Sabrina...

You laid out our core values, then your opponent personally attacked you, waving away and ignoring all the core values. Hmmm?

[sabrina 1]

38. Probably a slip ...

But I'm willing to take any opportunity to repeat, as often as necessary, Liberal Values and the infiltration of the Dem Party by the Third Way/DLC/Center Right/Neocon/lib Corporate tools, even if it means playing along!

I don't know what the difficulty is for a few here to actually discuss the values that most Liberals do not 'think differently about'. I certainly have no problem with the topic, I doubt you do either! But for some, it appears to be a very difficult subject!

[RobertEarl]

39. That's because we are free thinkers!

It would be real easy to just decide that so-and-so is not Liberal because they don't, or can't discuss the issues, but then we do realize we did not arrive at this point automatically... it took some education and lots of free thinking.

Problem with some free thinking is it can be too free. Seems some think it means you can just ditch core values and principles about life outside of and around us. Being Liberal, imo, means you care for, and are cognizant of what it takes to make sure the general welfare of people and the planet is given all due respect and consideration.

And you my dear, deserve more respect on this here thread. I hope you get it. I should make for an interesting read if it happens.

[sabrina 1]

4. Wrong. If you work openly against Liberal values, such as join the far right in defending

and excusing mass surveillance of an entire population in violation of the rights of the people granted in their Constitution, and attack the messengers, rather than the Republican Perps, who are responsible for these crimes, then there is no question what value system is being defended.

Anyone who despises the Left, can make no claim to being Liberal.

The Right and the Third Way infiltrators, equally despise the Left. Neither can claim to be Liberals, though some try.

[MineralMan]

8. I suspect that you and I are both liberals, but define it somewhat

differently.

[sabrina 1]

15. How do you define Liberal? How would you describe the core values that

Liberals are known for defending, standing up for, working to protect, as some have been implemented thankfully by courageous Liberals before us?

[MineralMan]

21. I stood in a crowd to hear MLK, Jr. in Bimingham.

I stood at the front line in front of the Pentagon in 1969. I've stood in front of PP clinics and escorted women past cursing spitting fundies. Will that do? If not , I don't know what to say to you.

[sabrina 1]

25. That didn't answer the question. It's hard to discuss what a liberal is/was without knowing

what the CORE VALUES are, have been and always were. As I understood it, you informed us here on DU that you came late to some of those values, which is fine, when something is right it's right and if someone comes late to an understanding of what is right, imo, that is a victory for everyone.

So in order to be able to define what a Liberal is, it is first necessary to understand the core values of Liberalism. From pov, I have noticed a lot of people CALLING themselves, generally they use women and minorities to gain creds but on the actual core values, which certainly include equality, so no need to constantly repeat 'I support women' eg, that is a given when discussing the actual values that liberalism stands for.

Marching with protesters tells us little about a person's values, anyone can do that, many do it for reasons other than, eg, SUPPORT. So my question was in response to the claim that Liberals are not necessarily on board with what have traditionally been Liberal values supposedly, according to the claim here, because 'they think differently'. THAT is the issue. I want to know on what core values they 'think differently'.

[MineralMan]

31. Two subthread replies to your questions

Is my limit. See you in some other thread.

[RobertEarl]

36. What? Are you serious?

You can only reply twice and you're out?

Especially when one is a GBCDU post? Bwahahaha.

[MineralMan]

40. I choose to do that in some situations.

It's a conscious choice, based on history. You don't have to follow that practice.

[reACTIONary]

33. +100 - Solidarity! (nt)

[pinboy3niner]

5. To reply to a post, click on 'Reply to this post' at the bottom right of that post

That way your reply won't appear as a reply to your own OP.

When you're new, it takes a little time to get used to things around here. Welcome to DU!

[coldean]

10. Thank you for the tip

And thank you for making me feel welcome

[pinboy3niner]

14. You're welcome

And note that when you post in the wrong place, you can self-delete and re-post where you want to place your reply.

[sabrina 1]

7. Can you explain 'think differently'. The Right, eg, thinks differently from Liberals.

I'm sure that's not what you meant, but there are core issues that Liberals do agree on. I eg, cannot imagine a Liberal excusing any talk, let alone action, on cutting SS benefits. Anyone who does clearly has zero understanding of SS. Liberals DO understand SS so I cannot see 'thinking differently' on that issue as an example.

[coldean]

16. Sure

Most of feel the same about civil rights, public schools, education, abortion, affirmative action, the death penalty and so on
But what we forget is that just because one claims to be a liberal does not necessarily mean that we all have to feel the same about every dinghy issue that the liberal party stands for.
I do not feel as strong about abolishing the death penalty like many liberals do but because I feel so strongly about all the other issues then I consider myself a liberal.

My husband considered himself a republican many years ago ONLY because he is against abortion (yes I know, it's a hot topic in our home
But I got to to realize that on every other issue he was really very liberal.
You see we have a SPECTRUM. Far left, left, middle,right, far right....
And we all land on it in different areas.

But more than just that we may feel the exact same about gun restrictions but my restrictions may be too severe for others, or some may feel that it's purely a state issue, some feel that automatic guns should be banned while others feel that they should only have strict restrictions.

Look I cannot possibly go into every little brief a liberal may have and why they have it, just know that you are a liberal and that means embracing the fact that we are free thinkers. We do not all stand on the exact same spot on every single issue. We need to stop telling others they are not liberals, stop acting like you just got high and now you're paranoid about your fellow liberal. Wondering why they are labeling themselves liberals and posting here..

It's counterproductive

[pampango]

19. Nice post, coldean. And a very could description about liberal beliefs and how we can

legitimately differ. And welcome to DU.

[coldean]

23. Thank you very much pampango

I am very happy to be here

[sabrina 1]

27. Well, I was talking more about the core values, those on which Liberalism is based, and which

determine the difference between those who are actual Liberals and those who can 'compromise' on issues for political purposes. One word comes to my mind when I think of Liberalism.

However, the word is being used by many who lean way to the right, so I'm not sure it is useful in itself. It may be time for a new word, leaving the word 'liberal' for those who lean right on several issue, who 'think differently' eg, on Social Programs, and Civil Rights.

I was just curious about the 'think differently' part of your OP. Can one, eg 'think differently' on equality for all Americans and still call themselves a Liberal?

[Maedhros]

43. What we're seeing, Sabrina, is the redefinition of "Liberal" to mean nothing more than

"opposition to the Republicans."

[pinboy3niner]

9. JFK: I'M PROUD TO SAY THAT I'M A "LIBERAL"

Last edited Sun Oct 26, 2014, 06:22 PM - Edit history (1)

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label, "Liberal"? If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But, if by a "Liberal," they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people - their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties - someone who believes that we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say that I'm a "Liberal."

--Address of John F. Kennedy upon Accepting the Liberal Party Nomination for President, New York, New York, September 14, 1960

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Research/Ready-Reference/JFK-Speeches/Address-of-John-F-Kennedy-upon-Accepting-the-Liberal-Party-Nomination-for-President-New-York-New-Yor.aspx

[coldean]

13. That is an excellent quote from John F. Kennedy

[calimary]

37. Another one for my quotes collection!

Terrific, AND with a pedigree (JFK, no less)!

Reminds me of that Jimmy Smits monologue about taking pride in being a liberal - in an episode of "West Wing." He played the Democratic presidential nominee against the republi-CON who was played by Alan Alda. And it ended with (paraphrasing) - "and if you throw that label down on the ground, I will pick it up. And I will wear it like a badge of honor."

No Freakin' Shit!!!! Say it loud, say it PROUD! And YEAH, you bet yer ass that's what they mean by "Liberal"!!!!