Kentucky Woman Doesn't Find Display Of Black People Hanging From Her Tree Offensive

[xchrom]

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/kentucky-woman-doesnt-find-display-black-people-hanging-her-tree-offensive



A Halloween display depicting what appears to be a black family hanging from a tree outside of a Kentucky residence has been taken down after people complained about it. The house is located on the military base in Fort Campbell.

Clarksville.com reports that one of its readers sent in a photo of four figures hanging in the home's front yard. The child has a knife in its back and one of the figures is holding a sign that is hard to read in the photo.

Brendalyn Carpenter with Fort Campbell Public Affairs said her department received a report of a Halloween display that was “offensive in nature” and asked that it be investigated. The woman who had put up the display agreed to take it down after learning of the concerns voiced by some in her community.

“Displays of an offensive nature are not reflective of Army values and the family-friendly environment provided for employees and residents of the Fort Campbell community,” Carpenter said.

[Heather MC]

1. if she had used white trash bags would it have been offensive?

[brush]

3. But she didn't. nt

[sarge43]

8. White, black or mauve, yes it would have been offensive n/t

[valerief]

78. There are mauve-colored people???

[sarge43]

83. Yes

Quite common during the fin de siecle

[valerief]

86. But they were only two dimensional. nt

[sarge43]

89. Rim shot. n/t

[gollygee]

9. Maybe, but that would have been different

There is no history in this country of widespread terrorism by lynching of white people. You can't ignore history when considering if something is offensive.

[Drahthaardogs]

158. That is not really true.

The larget groupnlynching ever were 12 italian americans by whites in New Orleans. A fact not widely known. Southerners lynched italians until 1930s.

[gollygee]

174. There were white people lynched

especially early - before 1890. But what you're talking about is rare. There was a period of US history where Italian immigrants were not considered white and also faced this kind of discrimination, and it was later during the period of lynching - so yes closer to 1930 - but it wasn't the same as lynching against people of color, including African Americans, Mexican Americans, and Asian Americans. It wasn't as wide spread and didn't last from 1890 through tilll the 1960s. Most white people who were lynched were lynched for actually committing crimes, and white people account for less than a quarter of lynchings despite being a majority. There was not the widespread and longterm terrorism that there was for African Americans, who were usually lynched for no reason other than terrorism.

[Drahthaardogs]

183. It was exactly the same

Congress even passed anti italian immigration laws.

[pinboy3niner]

184. No, there is NO comparison

You can't seriously be trying to say that was comparable to the atrocities blacks experienced?

"exactly the same"? Are you NUTS?

[Drahthaardogs]

186. Are you telling me that there are DEGREES of LYNCHING?

Dead is dead.

[merrily]

18. Displaying a tableaux of lynched people of any hue is offensive, Heather MC., however,

as another poster pointed out, there is no history of decades of lynching white people.

[Jamastiene]

32. Yes, because it is about seeing a human being hanging from a tree.

It would have been offensive in any case.

[Mercy_Queen]

37. Lighten up. It's Halloween.

The racism is what makes this offensive. If she had decorated her tree with non-racist hung bodies she would have been fine.

[Oktober]

56. Except of course that those have also been deemed offensive...

This year and in years past...

Sack cloth heads, Frankenstein, witches etc.. etc... All have been deemed offensive in specific reference to the hanging of black people back in the day regardless of skin color or even association as a human being.

To some people, hanging can only reference that one specific portion of history.

[WinkyDink]

88. Thank you, Kreskin.

[bettyellen]

59. from the article: "people have put forth their best efforts to be racially ignorant. "

something to think about, perhaps. Context- and history- matters.

[lunasun]

71. Apples and oranges . If I raise my pinkie finger at you is it the same as my middle finger ? No

Pinkie finger raising maybe weird or sorta sick if given to you but not the term offensive and same as being given the middle finger

(Which ah has a history of meaning fuck you)
Historical content

[WinkyDink]

85. If she had used green balloons...? If she had used purple people-eaters....? SHE WAS HANGING BLACKS

IN EFFIGY, and your query is repulsively disingenuous.

[SmittynMo]

2. And this is why McTurtle has won his seat for so long.

[jtuck004]

4. "The house is located on the military base in Fort Campbell." < We hire people this dumb? Or allow

them to have people this dumb in a house they own on our military bases? We are supposed to be scared of ISIS? Are you shitting me? This is the "unit cohesion" that is so important to protect?

Walt Kelly has to be shaking his head that we still haven't learned this.

[sarge43]

6. Civilian hirers don't live in base housing.

It's a perk for the families of service personnel. So she's either service herself or married to a service member. Whichever, someone needs a Come to Jesus briefing.

[jtuck004]

11. "We hire people this dumb?" By that I mean we are paying someone in the military a paycheck.

Stupid us, in this case.

There are some real hate groups in the military, could be this is part of that.

[sarge43]

15. Concur, unfortunately

Service personnel aren't cloned. We grow up civilians and are formed by civilian attitudes. Service will modify behavior (keep your mouth shut), but it seldom changes basic attitudes or beliefs Only the person can do that. Plus, there's really not much in the way of cure for terminally stupid.

[jtuck004]

17. Yeah. And I am kinda being sarcastic when I say dumb. I suspect they knew precisely what they were

doing.

Just being a bully, or worse, isn't dumb. It's just being a bully.

[Dont call me Shirley]

19. Because in the military recruits are taught to kill, to kill one must hate. So hate is taught.

[sarge43]

36. The hate was taught long before they joined the service

The service can only build upon what's already there. Again, we're not cloned in the bowels of the Pentagon.

[randys1]

104. Yes, but many who join dont come from hate and dont grow into hateful people while serving

But hate is everywhere in the military and to go in and come out without it tearing you down is hard, but I know those who have done it.

[demwing]

172. not at all true

Sociopaths don't hate, or love, or feel anything. That doesn't stop them from killing

Parents defending their children can kill out of love.

Your post is too simplistic

[Dont call me Shirley]

175. Parents kill their children from fear of the future or in a fit of rage, but NEVER from love.

Love and intentional killing are opposites, they can never parallel.

Love and fear are opposites, they can never be reconciled.

Love and hate are opposites, they can never be one.

Love is care. Love is healing. Love is the energy of goodness.

[demwing]

177. You read the post wrong

I'm not referring to parents that kill their children, but parents that kill those who threaten their children.

Again, too simplistic.

[Dont call me Shirley]

180. Your original post was to sarge43.

Doh. Not to me. I wondered how we got so off topic.

Sociopaths do not have higher consciousness behaviors (HCB) , such as compassion empathy sympathy wisdom generosity honesty, you are correct.

I was talking about how these HCBs must systematically be removed in order to be able to willingly kill another human being. In essence, creating a sociopath.

[demwing]

181. cheers

[Dont call me Shirley]

182. And to you

[merrily]

21. And/or terminally evil and foul.

[sarge43]

38. That too. n/t

[merrily]

47. We excuse a lot on the basis that people were too dumb or too scared to do better.

Some people just suck, though, or there would not have been lynchings in the first place.

[jtuck004]

48. I think the commander of that base ought to be in line for a different job, after being

fired from this one.

'Cause there really ain't nuthin' dumb about this, not realy, and everyone knows it.

[merrily]

50. I don't know how much the base commander had to do with it. The base did get her to take it down

when they got a complaint. How long it was up before someone complained, who else had seen it, etc., we don't know from the OP article.

[jtuck004]

122. The base commander has the responsibly. If the place is being run so shabbily that they

had not a clue this might not be acceptable, maybe they need someone else.

Moreover, this isn't the ONLY thing going ton - eh? This is just the one that made the paper. Wonder what else there is?

This isn't just some random house on the block - this is there because your tax money keeps it there, so you and I paid for this. It is for this reason that the commander has more responsibility for what goes on than, say, a mayor in a city, because they are operating under orders.

That alone makes it a very different situation, along with the fact that the tone at the base is set by those in charge. No different than a police force. They know exactly what is expected of them.

[merrily]

124. Nothing in the OP article indicated that the base was being run shabbily

For all we know from the OP article, the woman did something entirely out of character with the character and tonof the base and was asked to remove the display five minutes after it went up.

[jtuck004]

126. Having lynched black dolls hanging from a tree is your idea of neat and tidy?

Like those white folk need more excuses. Good to see whose side you are on.

Don't need to hear anything from you anymore, or your kind of people. bye.

[merrily]

128. That is a totally unwarranted and despicable accusation.

Not jumping to ugly conclusions about a military base commander based on zero evidence, one way or the other, does not make me or anyone a racist.

[RussBLib]

129. Jury Results

jtuck's post was alerted on


On Thu Oct 30, 2014, 04:06 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Having lynched black dolls hanging from a tree is your idea of neat and tidy?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5736893

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

A poster tells jtuck004 that the article does not contain enough facts to judge the base commander, and jtuck004 replies by implying the poster is racist (your kind). This is an over the top, unwarranted and serious accusation.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Oct 30, 2014, 04:19 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Emotions are inflamed. Misunderstandings ensue. Work it out.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is a mess but I'm hiding this because the poster said no such thing.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: An over reaction to the previous post.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alerter.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see no mention of a base commander in this post. The alerter is obviously confused.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[merrily]

130. And your point is? Should jtuck should be able to accuse me of being a racist based on zero

evidence without being alerted on?

I never understand the motive behind posting jury results. Seems like pure shit stirring to me, but I am sure your motives were not that base.

So, what was your point in posting the jury results, RussBLib?

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see no mention of a base commander in this post. The alerter is obviously confused.

Juror 7 is obviously confused (or something).

All the exchanges between jtuck and me were about the base commander's alleged culpability for a Halloween display on the base.


Much more importantly, though, the issue for the jury was not whether jtucks post mentions the base commander, but whether jtuck's post implied that I was a racist for zero reason, which it obviously did.


I also love that Juror 1 says to work it out, while Juror 2 calls it a mess. I never said a rude thing to jtuck until he or she was rude to me. I Juror 2 thought I should not have responded at all. At least Juror 2 realized I had said nothing that warranted jtuck's ugly post.


Ah, well, at least some jurors got it. Best one can hope for, I guess.
At least some jurors got it.

[jtuck004]

132. Don't get me wrong - I don't think just you are racist - the whole freakin' country is. All of us.

We were founded on the idea that only white folk matter, that black skin is less. We changed the words, but based on the number of people in jail, the black students we incarcerate at much higher rates than white students, the banks who seek out and charge black skin more money for the same loans as they do white skin, police forces beating up mercilessly on black children and adults - all as they pass "reservations" where we profited by sending native people to their death, and a nearly certain life of poverty and despair, while we did our dead level best to rip their culture from them and kill their spirit - I would say they have never been changed in many hearts.

Here are the heroes...they get better press than people who volunteer to help fight deadly diseases.



http://www.salon.com/2014/10/29/duck_dynasty_star_america_feels_like_nazi_germany/ <-

A bit from the person who might as well be the head of the local Nazi organizing committee. He should know.

[merrily]

134. The only ones who got you wrong were the jurors who voted to leave your despicable post.

Your Reply 126 could not have been clearer, even if some jurors somehow missed the point, or pretended to.

You don't think I am the only racist in the country. Gee, I am glad you cleared that up.

But you did accuse me of being a racist. (Twice now.)


And, in Reply 126, bid me goodbye because you don't need to hear from "my kind" anymore. So, have you stopped talking to the rest of the country, too? Or were you actually singling me out in some way different from the other 350 million Americans you now claim are all racists.

BTW, MADem dressed you up and down for blaming the base commander, but I notice you didn't call him or her a racist.

I have no power on this board and want none, but I would greatly appreciate it if you never post to me again. Trying to backpedal now just doesn't cut it.

[AverageJoe90]

154. "- the whole freakin' country is. All of us." I'm sorry, but......

I hate to say this, but do you think exaggerating things is at all helpful? I don't, and in fact, this particular kind of exaggeration has *hurt* us since day fuckin' one.

Want to imagine an America in which 99% of white folks really *were* racist? Think of all the horrors committed by Nazi Germany during the 1930s thru 1945, of the Holocaust and everything else. Now imagine this problem multiplied by two, or three, or a fucking dozen, even. Because the more racists you have in a society, in most cases, the number of extremist racists also goes up with that as well; just as with any philosophy. We exaggerate the number of actual racists, and underplay the severity, and potential severity, of the effects of actual racism at our own terrible peril, JTuck......

And having a couple tens of millions of actual racists dwelling amongst us has proven to be a bad enough problem, as anyone can see.

[gollygee]

176. You define racism in a way that exempts most people

so you assume racism is a smaller problem than it is.

The issue is that there is the kind of racism you're talking about - really overt racism - and then there's a kind of racism that's built into our society and is harder to see. It's also there but it isn't as visible, and also has a real affect on people of color. The individual acts of racism are smaller, but since it's more common it builds up and still hurts. You can't just pretend it isn't there just because it isn't as overt and visible.

Every time you say "actual racism" it pisses me off. Less overt racism IS real racism and still affects the world and individual people.

[merrily]

147. crickets

[MADem]

80. The base commander doesn't live in that house and the charge of racism is bogus.

The military family in the house were trying to create a very specific scene out of a movie where a (white) family is terrorized and killed and they did a shitty job of it.

The PAO at the base has said that the Army investigated and there was no racist intent.

The military family has apologized.

The race of the family in the house hasn't been revealed, but you can be sure that at least one family in five in that neighborhood is black. The Army also has a heavily Hispanic population as well, it is the most integrated service.

The problem with the display was how it looked, not what was in the residents' hearts.

I am not a fan of these violent Halloween representations but this is not the first one I've seen in my life. I am convinced that there was no racist "theme" at work here and my bullshit meter is finely tuned.

[merrily]

94. I did not say the base commander lived in the house, nor did I blame the base commander. To the

contrary, my post was cutting back against the other poster's imputing some kind of wrong to the commander by saying we don't have facts to tell us if the commander was to blame in any way or not.

So, I don't understand your comment to me about the base commander at all, unless it's more of your usual when it comes to me.

The woman apologized after a military base official told her the display was offensive and asked her to take it down. That proves zero about her intent in putting it up. I believe you have military experience. I have lived on a military base, too. I responded immediately and very respectfully to every request made of me by someone with authority to make it. Didn't mean I was an angel before the request was made. I don't recall the OP article saying the family apologized, but same comment, whether it was only the woman or the entire family.

The race of the family in the house hasn't been revealed, but you can be sure that at least one family in five in that neighborhood is black. The Army also has a heavily Hispanic population as well, it is the most integrated service.

Yes, so? Complaints came in from the neighborhood, whether they came in from whites or non whites, we don't know. The story doesn't say. The story does say that neighbors complained at least one relevant base officials characterized the display as offensive. What's your point about the color of the neighbors? More specifically, what is your point about the color of the neighbors as that relates to my post? You seem to think that the color of the neighbors means this woman had no wrong intent. If so, I don't agree. The color of the neighbors tells us nothing about her original intent and my post certainly did not mention their color.

I am convinced that there was no racist "theme" at work here and my bullshit meter is finely tuned.

LOL! And no other poster's is as finely tuned as yours? Well, I've never accused of excessive modesty or humility and I certainly won't start today.

I've never accused you of uncertainty, either, but being certain doesn't equal being correct. YNo matter how certain you may feel, you may be correct about this; you may be wrong about this. We don't have enough facts to decide. However, there is a difference between opinion, even yours, and fact. You've expressed your opinion, nothing less and nothing more.

[MADem]

107. I was responding specifically to jtuck's comments about the base commander.

I wasn't even talking to, or about, you or your remarks. Yet here you are, singling me out again with a "So, I don't understand your comment to me..." accusation when I was. not. talking. to. you .

I happened to take the time to do the research and look into this story, because--having lived on military installations for decades--I know how strict they are with regard to not just "yard displays," but everything from when one mows one's lawn to how many pets one is allowed to have. If you think that racist themes in military housing areas are typical in a service where nearly half the force is minority, and twenty percent are black, you need to rethink.

The charge of racism IS bogus, and the family has apologized for the fact that their decorations were viewed in the wrong light. They had no racist intent, they were simply dumb ass idiots who didn't think it through. It was just a bad choice of theme on their part, made worse by the fact that they used black garbage bags to interpret it.

It's not an "opinion." Do your own homework, and you'll see. Here--let me help you:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/halloween-lynching-display-removed-from-on-base-home-at-fort-campbell/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/gory-hanging-halloween-display-removed-fort-campbell-article-1.1991774

This is the Public Affairs officer who issued the statement:

http://www.fortcampbellcourier.com/site/staff/article_afa0d624-040d-11e3-a6d2-0019bb2963f4.html

Had racist intent been established, the military member(s) residing in that house would have been subject to immediate and harsh discipline.

People who haven't served in the military just love to think the worst about them. These people were simply stupid, not racist.

[merrily]

110. You are correct. You were talking to another poster. I did not follow the thread correctly.

I apologize for replying.

I am not even going to read the rest of your post because, based on past experience, I will not agree with much in it, if anything, nor with your demeanor. However, since I should not have engaged you to begin with, I will just leave off instead of wasting anymore of your time and energy or mine.

Enjoy your day. (NOT sarcasm)

[MADem]

114. Do what you want, and enjoy your day as well. nt

[merrily]

115. "Do what you want" ......... And enjoy your day as well. Thanks.

[MADem]

121. You are quite welcome. nt

[CakeGrrl]

148. No service organization is free of bad (racist) apples

Lord knows we've seen a run on unarmed black men being shot to death by police.

There's a current thread where a NC teacher said she'd "kill all black people" to a student if she only had 10 days left to live.

That's the thing about racism. There's no detector for it. It bubbles to the surface if one is lucky enough to have someone put it on display for their true character to be known.

[jtuck004]

149. I can't imagine telling some little kid that she or he might get shot today because, well, "No

service organization is free of bad (racist) apples". Or perhaps using that as a comforting line as they view their kid in a casket.

I know that's absurd, but at some point white folk are going to have to fix this, if it is going to be fixed. And we aren't going to do it by accepting excuses in lieu of real progress.

You are correct, there is no detector. But when there is no detector people put extra effort into getting what they want. If they really want it. There is a lot of room for us to put more effort into that.

The real problem is that our real enemies are the wealthy, but the way to take them out is to quit giving them all they are using against us. Tough to do that when there is such division over appearances.

It's not a "blame" thing - it's just facts. If white folk wanted to end this stuff they would, and it would be in the best interests of all except for perhaps about .01% of them. We can live with that. More of us longer, anyway.

[mikeysnot]

5. Doubling down on ignorant.

[daleanime]

7. hummmnnnn.....

no picture of her, but I willing to bet that her skin tone is "lighter then a paper bag".

[RobinA]

10. If You Ask Me

it has a huge ick factor no matter what the color of the bags. I mean, I love Halloween creepy decorations, but this goes above and beyond.

[knightmaar]

12. This is not the woman Neil Diamond sang about, then?

Kentucky woman
If she get to know you,
She goin' to lynch you
Kentucky woman

Maybe, just maybe, certain Hallowe'en themes aren't appropriate in some areas.

[rtracey]

13. and you wonder

And you wonder why Mitch McConnell is polling higher then Alison.... it's people this this woman. The right wing lives on racist people like this woman, and to say this is ANYTHING but a racist rant make one a fucking idiot. What is really "Halloween" scary is people like her would rather vote for a dog like McConnell,risking her health insurance, medicare, and social security, over her hatred for Obama and blacks..... well lady, keep your hate....you deserve what you get.

[jtuck004]

49. "you deserve what you get." < just a note. We ALL get what she gets.

An injury to one is an injury to all. Even if it is self-inflicted.

[demwing]

14. The article's title misleads

There is nothing in the body of the text that indicates that the woman "doesn't think" the display is offensive.

In fact, the article specifically states: "The woman, who hasn’t been identified, said she didn’t mean to offend anyone and apologized."

The article also specified that the woman removed the display as soon as she was asked. That's hardly the defiant attitude the story implies.

Look, she was dumb to put up the display in the first place. That's all that's really required to say. Why make up a subtext that isn't there?

The inaccuracy looks like an exageration, and deflects from the true stupidity involved here.

[merrily]

23. ? She put it up and she claims she didn't mean for it to offend. That seems to mean

that she did not think it was offensive, at least not when she put it up.

The article also specified that the woman removed the display as soon as she was asked.

Military and their spouses do tend to do things as soon as someone in authority asks them.


This woman may be clueless about lynchings in the South, though I find that hard to believe, and innocent. Or not.

But the story does support that either she truly did not think it was offensive or she lied when confronted.

[demwing]

28. She was a moron for putting it up

But she took it down when asked, and apologized.

Whatever dumbness she exhibited during the decorating stage doesn't seem to have affected her "apologizing for such insensitivity" stage.

That's all I'm saying...

[merrily]

29. You said all that in your first post and I already replied to it.

Not sure if repeating is useful.

From the OP article:

The woman, who hasn’t been identified, said she didn’t mean to offend anyone and apologized. It's unclear how long the display was hanging before it was removed, but it is odd that someone could think such a display wouldn’t be perceived as being offensive.

As Halloween nears, people have put forth their best efforts to be racially ignorant. From dressing as a deceased Trayvon Martin to a costume of NFL star Ray Rice hovering over a badly beaten doll meant to represent his wife Janay, it seems that many white people have an unquenchable appetite for parodying black tragedy. (Check out this list of racist Halloween costumes over the years to see how real this is.)

As Gray’s Anatomy star Jesse Williams described on Twitter recently, “We don't reflexively celebrate random or routine white death, make memes of your bleeding corpses, etc. Tell us about this unique obsession.”

On that note, I'll gladly interview anyone willing to go on record to admit how dressing up in our pain is funny. I'm waiting.

[lunasun]

52. + 2014

[demwing]

68. I applaud your applause

and yes, the year is 2014.

[merrily]

69. Thank you. *bows humbly*

[demwing]

66. Excuse me, just clarifying my point

as I wasn't sure we were on the same page.

Clarity is more important than brevity (within reason), right?

[merrily]

77. It was not a matter of clarity or of brevity, but of repetition.

For example, your original post said the woman took down the display as soon as she was asked and apologized, as as if her doing that after being asked by a base offical somehow proved that she was in good faith to begin with. (BTW, I have lived on a military base; and I know from experience that I was expected to comply with a "request" from a higher up immediately and very respectfully. That's just common sense. So that response from the woman proves absolutely nothing about her original intent.)

My first reply included my response to that point, namely that people who live on military bases (meaning military families) tend to behave that way when confronted with a "request" from a military official.

Your next post totally ignored my reply to that point and just stated again that she took it down and apologized as soon as she was asked, Why, if you read my reply at all, would you assume that I somehow missed that she complied with the request and apologized and that I therefore needed clarification on that point? And how is simply repeating something clarification anyway? And how could I respond, except to also repeat what I had said earlier? And what would the point of all that repetition be?

So, I said I didn't see the point of repetition. And I didn't.

[demwing]

99. Actually I was just being polite

But since you seem determined, I'll tell you that your original post was just formatted oddly.

You lead with a question mark, which is weird in English. You then repeated my point. Because of the anomalous "?" I didn't know if you were agreeing, questioning, or just used to writing in Spanish.

You quoted a line from the article, then commented. It seemed like you were in agreement with my point, but you could have also been dismissing her behavior as mindless. Or both.

You then wrote: "This woman may be clueless about lynchings in the South, though I find that hard to believe, and innocent. Or not."

Yeah, that's clear.

Following your previous form, you ending on this note:

"But the story does support that either she truly did not think it was offensive or she lied when confronted"

Either you agree, or you don't. Clarity. You're doing it wrong...

And you wonder why I repeated myself?

[merrily]

105. Hm. When I reply to you, that shows I am determined about something or other, not just that I am

replying to you. And when you reply to me, that does not also show that you are also determined about whatever it is you assume I am determined about? And somehow my unique determination has something to do with whether I deserve courtesy or not? All righty, then. I'll try to be polite, though you seem every bit as determined to reply to me as I am to reply to you..

Either you agree, or you don't. Clarity. You're doing it wrong...

No, your failure to understand my post does not necessarily mean that I am doing clarity wrong. Maybe I am, or maybe you did reading comprehension wrong. Either scenario could be true. (Thats what "or" usually means, btw.)

Certainly at least one other poster understood my post. And one little question mark at the beginning of a post should not throw off your comprehension of the entire post all that much. However, even assuming not a word of my post was comprehensible, how does simply repeating your post, help you understand what my post meant?


As far as whether I agreed with your original claim or not, no, I did not. You had posted that the story gave no basis whatever for claiming that the woman did not think her display was offensive. The story did give facts that supported the headline. My first reply to you spelled out those facts. (I am relatively certain that was the reason the other poster applauded my reply.)

At this point, I will cease being unilaterally determined to reply to you. Have a great day

[demwing]

120. Buh bye

[merrily]

123. Bye

[Reter]

117. The title clearly implies that the woman still doesn't think it's offensive

I picked up on that right away.

[merrily]

118. I am not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.

Or partially agreeing and partially disagreeing.

[merrily]

127. Not necessarily clearly. It could be the historical present tense.

I was taught to avoid it because it's too informal, but wiki says it's common in headlines. (I was also taught to avoid contractions for the same reason.)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_present

So, what the headline meant to imply is not necessarily clear.

[Jamastiene]

34. So you are saying that she would put something up that she thought was offensive?

Obviously, she didn't think it was offensive when she put it up. She knows it is now.

[demwing]

65. No, I'm saying the article (and thread) title says that

I'm contrasting that to the body of text in the story, and coming to the same conclusion as you.

[merrily]

106. I don't know if it's obvious that she didn't think it was offensive when she put it up.

I don't think we know her intentions. She said she did not mean to offend, but that was only after a military base official told her she had to take it down because it was offensive. If you were a member of the military or a relative of a member of the military, what would you say after a military official told you to take it down because it was offensive.? No matter what your original intentions were, you'd say you did not intend to offend. That is what every apology from every politician says, doesn't it?

Maybe she didn't mean to offend; maybe she did. None of us know the woman or the circumstances. It's open to interpretation, either way,

[rtracey]

81. sorry

Sorry, dont buy it.... Someone doesn't put it up in the first place unless they have the racist attitude to do it. I don't care if she took it down 5 minutes after it was up. It was put up to show it, now to say ohhhh sorry, I didn't mean anything by it. Would it be any difference if the hanged were dressed like Muslims, how about a Jewish family, maybe Asian....no it wouldn't..... Now, if it were depected as zombies, or bloody macabe people from a horror movie, yup a difference, but not these....

[demwing]

100. I hear what you're saying, and mostly agree

Last edited Fri Oct 31, 2014, 06:22 AM - Edit history (1)

but the title says she "DOESN'T" think it's offensive, not that she "DIDN'T" think it offensive.

There would have to be something in the article to indicate that she didn't give a fuck what people thought, even after they complained, but there isn't. There is evidence to the contrary though, however weak.

[merrily]

125. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_present

[JustAnotherGen]

16. Not sure who this guy is - but at the end of the article he is quoted with . . .

“We don't reflexively celebrate random or routine white death, make memes of your bleeding corpses, etc. Tell us about this unique obsession.”
- Jesse Williams


It's kind of a fair analysis.

[merrily]

33. If you're implying she was innocently duplicating a scene from a movie, what makes

you think that? Nothing in the OP story says that and her tableau does not look like the one in your pic.

[strawberries]

22. OMG!

That is disgusting. I am shocked, totally sickened

[spanone]

24. sick, twisted fucks.

[merrily]

25. Southern trees bear strange fruit.

Billie Holiday – Strange Fruit Lyrics

Southern trees bear strange fruit,
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root,
Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze,
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.

Pastoral scene of the gallant south,
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth,
Scent of magnolias, sweet and fresh,
Then the sudden smell of burning flesh.

Here is fruit for the crows to pluck,
For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck,
For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop,
Here is a strange and bitter crop.

[Catherine Vincent]

26. She must have a very dark aura

Last edited Fri Oct 31, 2014, 08:48 AM - Edit history (1)

Even if the make believe people were of any other color. Why would someone want make believe human bodies hanging from a tree in their yard even if it is halloween?

[AverageJoe90]

156. It's honestly beyond me, too, Catherine.

I mean, all my family ever did when I was little was scarecrows and jack-o-lanterns, and that was it.

[ismnotwasm]

27. She's a sick, sick woman

[Jamastiene]

30. Notice the woman said,

“Displays of an offensive nature are not reflective of Army values and the family-friendly environment provided for employees and residents of the Fort Campbell community.”

I'd be willing to bet behind closed doors, the mentality that led to anyone thinking that was ok to begin with was reflective of the culture they have there. No one would feel like they could get away with that if that mentality was not strongly present to begin with.

It is truly sickening.

[merrily]

40. The woman who said that was not the same woman who put up the display, but a spokesperson

for the military base.

Brendalyn Carpenter with Fort Campbell Public Affairs said her department received a report of a Halloween display that was “offensive in nature” and asked that it be investigated. The woman who had put up the display agreed to take it down after learning of the concerns voiced by some in her community.

Couldn't tell from your post if you knew that.

[Jamastiene]

43. Yes, I knew.

I still think that if they had any decent race relations mentality there, she would have known better.

[merrily]

44. Whether it's cluelessness or evil is a very open question in my mind.

[davidpdx]

31. She says she didn't mean to offend anyone

I don't believe that.

[theHandpuppet]

35. I can't believe anyone could be that clueless

Must take a lot of practice.

[sarge43]

41. We have insufficent data, but

it is possible she isn't an American. If you think clueless racism is virulent in the US, check it out around the world.

[ismnotwasm]

45. Possible, but not excusable.

Racism is no more palatable outsise the U.S. than in it. On an American Army base, she almost certainly has heard of American Racism.

This paragraph struck me: As Halloween nears, people have put forth their best efforts to be racially ignorant. From dressing as a deceased Trayvon Martin to a costume of NFL star Ray Rice hovering over a badly beaten doll meant to represent his wife Janay, it seems that many white people have an unquenchable appetite for parodying black tragedy. (Check out this list of racist Halloween costumes over the years to see how real this is.)

[sarge43]

46. No, it isn't.

I'm wondering about her spouse. She might be ignorant or indifferent; spousal unit's survival instincts should have kicked in immediately.

[Travelman]

82. That spouse may be in west Africa right now

Fort Campbell is the home of the 101st, some 3000 of whom have been deployed to west Africa to fight ebola.

If she actually is from some other part of the world, perhaps somewhere where people may not make the connection between the black garbage bags and that being considered a representation of Black people, then it would at least make some more sense.

[sarge43]

87. Good point

Didn't make the deployment possibility

[Behind the Aegis]

163. Believe it.

It is one of the main issues when it comes to racism, some have taken to calling things like this "microaggressions"; I usually refer to it as "soft racism." These people really don't see "the problem," which, IMO, is one of the reasons race relations is slipping backwards in this country.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. This link will take you to a memorial page for the victims of lynching in Kentucky

There are 5 pages of names....
http://abhmuseum.org/category/lynching-victims-memorial/kentucky/

[merrily]

42. There were probably more who were never found or whose names were never learned.

All you had to do was be passing through.

"Don't let the sun set on you in this town, boy."

[Bluenorthwest]

51. Of course.

Very certainly many more. And certainly not just Kentucky, that site covers each State, I linked to Kentucky because of the story at hand.

[appalachiablue]

60. Thanks for this link on a horrible era in the US. More people should know and see

the ugly truth of our past, and the ugly reality of today for what it is-continued racism, bigotry and inhuman violence. Like Jim Crow era lynchings, more should check out the impossible 'literacy tests' used to dissuade blacks from voting among other measures in the south; the 'tests' were also given to deter Irish Catholics in NE in 1850s; and against Hispanics in the 20th cent.
I seriously doubt that this woman thought the 'display' she created wasn't offensive. No way. This is shameful, shocking but happening. My husband's family had an uncle who left southern VA in the 1940s or 1950s for fear of being accused of stealing some food. He was never seen again.

[ReRe]

53. In all honesty...

... since it was an Army Base, it very well could have been someone from another state.

However, I don't agree with the policy of not publishing the person's name and photo. Shouldn't there be consequences for doing something like this in this day and age?

[TBF]

54. Why is this not a hate crime? smh. nt

[kentuck]

55. most of the post is located in Tennessee but...

The Post Office on base is located in Kentucky. That is why it is called Ft. Campbell, Kentucky. Not that it matters.

[dilby]

57. We just had a similar situation in Portland, except the guy put a brown hood over the head so you

could not determine the race and put a sign on the dummies chest.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Taking-Halloween-too-far-280882102.html

[Oktober]

58. The immediate and complete rush to judgement in this thread...

.. is disgusting.

Maybe she made it with what was lying around the house and doesn't view her life through the same prism of race that everyone here seems to...

Judgemental, elitist, high horsed , snobby and holier than though sums up this whole thread. You should all be ashamed.

[gollygee]

61. The idea of being "color blind" is a myth

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/the-myth-of-color-blindness-cms-7523

It's just an excuse to pretend that racism doesn't exist and an excuse to not deal with racism.

[Orrex]

62. Maybe you're right.

Whatever happened to the days when you could lynch a black family in effigy without having to face repercussions for it?

[WinkyDink]

93. I K, R?!

[WilliamPitt]

63. Fail.

You haz it.

[bullwinkle428]

64. And Cliven Bundy is nothing more than a poor, misrepresented victim of

the "lame-stream media".

Amirite, people?

[Oktober]

75. Comparison of the two belittles actual racism...

... such as that exhibited by Bundy.

Energy spent on frivolous crap like this is wasted when it could be put towards confronting actual racists and actual racism.

I'm starting to think that some folks around here protest a bit too much. Something like those crazy preachers who denounce the sin of homosexuality and then get caught themselves...

[merrily]

70. While your post is not at all judgmental or high horsed--or shaming or intended to hurt?

Or an immediate and complete rush to judgment--and not of some stranger somewhere in Kentucky, but of your fellow DUers?

If this woman is your close friend or something, I get your post, but be honest. If not, how expressing your opinion about the story, instead of attacking your fellow DUers?

Unlike your post, the person supposedly being judged by other posts on this thread in all likelihood, will never see this thread So, the posts on this thread are merely comments on a news story, not designed to hurt any person, including the person who created this tableau.

Your post, however, is aimed to shame people who are highly likely to see your post and intended to make them feel bad about posting their opinions on a frickin' message board where they are supposed to post their opinions. How that makes you less judgmental than the other posters on this thread, rather than more, escapes me.

BTW, nothing in the OP article supports your assumption anyway. And US military base officals agreed it was offensive, as the OP article does state. Going at fellow posters this way based on nothing but an assumption you pulled out of your ear makes it even worse.

It's unusual for someone who joined the board so recently to get this, um, brave, with fellow posters for this little so soon. If you are one of the returnees, I think I can guess why you...left.

[Oktober]

73. My judgement is based on observed evidence...

... and post after post calling for everything from the post commander to be relieved to calls to make this a hate crime.

Judgement is fine when backed up with evidence.

They should feel shamed and they should feel bad, which is why I suggested it.

...............

What is disgusting is the seemingly instinctual need to dump on this woman when there are far more likely scenarios that are far less insidious. Everyone wants to be first in line to take offense and cast their stone.

It seems to be utterly inconceivable that she could not think about the racial aspects of this. The thought hasn't even crossed anyone's mind. Everyone is so bloody sure that she must be a racist when there are far more likely possibilities that can be explored with just a hint of thought.

Did she fight desperately to keep it up? Did she say anything about black people? Did she act in any way other than someone who used what is lying around 90% of our homes (old clothes and black outdoor leaf trash bags) to build her project?

Lastly, if your standard for "brave" is shooting the shit on the internet ... I'd check your bearings...

[merrily]

79. Another utterly clueless post, even after multiple responses from your fellow posters. Old saying:

"When one person calls you an ass, get offended. When two people call you an ass, get a saddle."

Not a single poster who responded to you agreed with you. Do you really believe that you are that far above everyone else here morally? That no one else gets it, only you?

Should feel ashamed? Because of your clueless out of order scolding? Fuck that. Ashamed of what? Posting on an message board an opinion about a stranger that is going to hurt no one? While you should not feel ashamed for intentionally doing your best to make fellow posters feel bad? LMAO. Get over yourself.

As far as taking down the display and apologizing, did you miss that she is on a military base and a base official asked her to take it down because it was offensive and complaints had come in? Ever been in the military? Any clue how fast military families comply with "requests" from base officials? Sorry, believeing that her response then proves anything about her original intent? Also a clueless analysis.

I'm supposed to check my bearings if I think your slamming your fellow posters is brave? Is that how you read, "um, brave," for comprehension? That's how you read my entire post to you?? That I thought you were brave? Also clueless. (I'm seeing a pattern.)

Maybe you should consider what your fellow posters have said about your post before you just double down so reflexively, defensively and cluelessly. Or not. I don't really care. I bet some number of them already put you on ignore anyway.

[Oktober]

96. So if more than one person agrees with an idiotic idea...

... then it must be true and the minority must be wrong (i.e. the ass).

Way to sum up the concept of herd mentality...

Seriously, you could put that on a bumper sticker or something.

[merrily]

97. And the clueless responses on this thread ontinue and proliferate.

Good luck with your reading comprehension and analysis. I hope they serves you better IRL than they have in your understanding of my posts to you

Have a well-deserved day.

[Oktober]

162. I'm just picking up what you are putting down...

"When one person calls you an ass, get offended. When two people call you an ass, get a saddle."

Not a single poster who responded to you agreed with you.

[merrily]

168. Whatever. My posts spelled it out. No coded, hidden messages. If you missed it, check out Reply 166.

[Alittleliberal]

152. 10000 frenchman can't be wrong! nt

[merrily]

166. I don't know if they can or not. But I know that the poster was no less judgemental or

anything else than DUers posting about a stranger. As I said, they were not posting opinions at DU with the intent that the woman would see their posts and feel bad. Our fellower DUer was posting with the intent of having her targets see her post and feel bad. How is that nobler? How is that a higher road?

[Oktober]

169. Just to be clear...

It's fine to talk "smack" (in the parlance of young people) as long as the target doesn't hear about it?

Making actual judgments based on behavior and evidence and then discussing them with the people involved is a no go because folks might feel ashamed for their shameful actions?

That's the standard you want to go with?

[WinkyDink]

92. "The child in the display has a knife in its back...." Please. Conjure up the non-vile explanation.

[Oktober]

95. Ummm.... It's Halloween...

Been to a haunted house before?

Dead people galore with eyeballs hanging out, guts everywhere, dead babies, kids, adults, old people...

I swear people don't seem to realize what time of year it is...

... or are you claiming that a knife in the back also has a racially motivated history behind it as well?

[joeglow3]

108. Dude, you are pissing in the wind

Some people want to be pissed and this provides them with an outlet. I could spend all day listing the stories where people looked like dipshits because they ran to judgement and shouted down anyone who dare say "lets wait for the evidence" only to flat out disappear when the evidence came out and they were shown to be fools.

[merrily]

112. Dispositive evidence of what was in this woman's heart/thoughts when she decided to put up this

display?

Got mind reader?

[joeglow3]

133. Exactly my point

Everyone here who is offended must be a mind reader.

[WinkyDink]

135. You do know that there are those who claim she had nothing offensive in mind? THEY are the mind-

readers.

SOME of us have two working eyes.

[joeglow3]

137. You forgot your sarcasm tag.

[merrily]

136. Odd way to express that point: you mentioned only evidence coming out later, not mind reading.

But, I take you at your word.

[joeglow3]

139. Yep. Just as it has already in this case.

The scene depicted was from a 2012 family about a white family being attacked by their child.
The bags were used because that was what was available.
The person in charge of the base (a black person, BTW) said their was nothing racial about.

But the rush to judgement types will continue their mind reading.

[merrily]

142. Sorry, that is not dispositive evidence. You seldom get dispositive evidence of what

was in a person's mind/heart. You may get their explanation, but people don't always tell the truth, esp. when the truth would be embarrassing.

Even when they take an oath in court and might get nailed for perjury, they don't always tell the truth.

Besides, ethings don't have to be one thing or the other. People's thoughts don't always go from Point A to Point B in a straight line.

[joeglow3]

143. Fair. Do you make it a practice of assuming guilt and requiring proof of guilt?

[merrily]

145. Dude, the only thing I said was that an explanation is not dispositive evidence.

Emphasis on dispositive.

And to explain why, I mentioned that some people lie, even in court. Or have more than one simple, clear motive for their actions. Is any of this news to anyone?

It does not mean that I make a habit of assuming guilt.

But, two can play that game: Do you make a habit of trying to put people in a bad light simply because they make innocent statements to you?

[joeglow3]

150. I assume people are good

Until I see evidence otherwise.

[merrily]

167. So do I.

Whether that is wisdom or not, I can't say, but it is what I do.

I don't think you are understanding that there is a difference between me having basically an academic discussion with you about what constitutes dispositive evidence of intent, unless you can grab hold of a mind reader, and me living my life. Maybe I am one of the exceptions to your assuming people are good?

[Oktober]

131. Fair enough...

*steps away from the ledge*

Thanks, I needed that...

[WinkyDink]

138. Care to cite examples of your digression? I remember the vitriol aimed at the National Enquirer for

its John Edwards stories, and yeah, nobody later said "Oops." It was always a lame "Stopped clock yada yada."

There is NOTHING anyone here could know or have known about Ms. Hickox to definitively say if she would turn into Dr. Spencer Redux or not. SHE could not know or have known.

[joeglow3]

141. The girl with the scars at KFC and the black actress fucking in public are the most recent

[WinkyDink]

144. FTR: I personally knew the former was fake from the git-go, and for the latter I DID post a "Mea

culpa."
Can't speak for others.

[WinkyDink]

140. I guess I just don't find the thrill you do in the depiction of "dead babies, kids...." And I've not

heard of legit "Haunted Houses" that depict any. You have examples?

[Oktober]

146. Part of me is just curious what a "legit" haunted house consists of...

However, 30 seconds of google for "zombie baby haunted house" brings up about 5 million hits and picture after picture of costumes and props...

While there are certainly "dead" baby props and costumes as well, I have no interest in searching for them. Feel free to do it on your own time...

[Gormy Cuss]

76. Maybe pigs fly.

There's nothing elitist, snobby, et cetera about recognizing strange fruit. It's called being an American.

[WinkyDink]

90. Wow. Why don't you pull out more imaginary excuses for her?

[marble falls]

153. There's nothing funny about lynching. Period. Whether it was intentional or not.

[AverageJoe90]

155. I'm sorry, but I'm afraid that's pretty unlikely at this point.

Of course, granted, she may be one of those few people who truly *is* that ignorant and naive regarding this kind of thing; it does happen on occasion.
But, regardless, that doesn't change the fact that this had caused some serious problems in the community, however; there are still a fair number of African-Americans alive today who still have very vivid memories of the days where this kinda thing was still, unfortunately, at least turned away from, if not totally legal in some spots.

[Logical]

159. LOL, 380 posts. Hmmmmmm. nt

[Oktober]

161. Numbers... ammirite?

What's the deal with that?

[otohara]

67. Good Ole Southern Hospitality

reeks

There must not be very many African American's on this base for someone to think this was okay.

[Travelman]

91. A quarter of the population

A little over 25% of those who live on base at Fort Campbell are Black. That's slightly higher than neighboring Clarksville, though there are a whole lot of military folks who work at Fort Campbell but live in Clarksville. That puts Clarksville right in line with the rest of the Army and it puts Fort Campbell actually slightly higher than the Army as a whole, and WAY higher than the general population.

[otohara]

98. Shocking

I can't ever imagine this happening in my state.

Since President Obama had the audacity to win two elections white Southerners are not holding back what they've been suppressing for years. Showing off their racism towards Obama and AA's is wide open and more extreme hate towards the president is in vogue.

My once hippie gal friend who moved to GA, married and R and since Obama... she has changed into something I don't recognize. She's a racist on top of sounding like Sarah Palin. We parted ways during the Bush years - but she recently called. It didn't take long to figure out she has gone off into FOX land. The South is a toxic mess.

If she stayed in CO she would be not GOP insane.

[Travelman]

103. There's a pretty strong likelihood that this person is not a Southerner at all.

Lots and lots and lots of people at Fort Campbell are transplants from somewhere else because Fort Campbell is their duty station. Casey Sheehan was stationed at Fort Hood; doesn't mean he was a Texan (he was born and raised in California).

If I had to guess, I would bet that the majority of people stationed at Fort Campbell and living on base are not Southerners at all.

[MADem]

109. The PAO who issued the statement about this incident is black.

The Army doesn't play when it comes to racism. This display was STUPID, not racist.

As an aside, guess where the soldiers going to Africa to combat Ebola are coming from?

Answer: Ft. Campbell.

[Travelman]

116. "Stupid, not racist." I'm inclined to agree.

All the folks suiting up to go to Africa are a pretty big deal around here (Nashville). Clarksville has become a "commuter city" for Nashville, so it's not at all uncommon for, say, someone who lives in Nashville to work with someone from Clarksville whose husband/wife/brother/whatever is in the 101st, and that person is deploying (not just in this particular case, but in general).

[MADem]

119. Overt racism is harshly punished in the Army.

Twenty five percent of the soldiers serving in FT Campbell are black--hell, the PAO who issued the "looked bad but no offense intended" comments is black.

Some people really get into decorating for Halloween. These people who thought up this "bright" idea for this Halloween display got tunnel vision, is what I think. They figured everyone would perceive the display as they did.

As for the people who complained, I think they were right to complain. I think the base was right to investigate, and I think the residents were smart to take it down and issue their apology. It looks HORRIBLE. And, as we all know "the appearance of (impropriety or any other sin/crime)" creates the same awful impression as actually having the intent to do wrong.

[UglyGreed]

72. I saw this

and first thing that came to my mind is Strange Fruit

[merrily]

113. Please see Reply 25

[UglyGreed]

164. Thanks but

that does not change what came across my mind when I saw the "display" in the picture provided by the website a few days ago. I could not help but to think that. Does not matter what the person who owns the property knows or does not know.

[merrily]

165. Maybe I misunderstood your Reply 72

Last edited Fri Oct 31, 2014, 05:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Billie Holliday sang about lynchings, calling them "strange fruit." I thought your reply 72 was referring to lynching. In referring you to my post about strange fruit, I was trying to say that, when I first saw the photo, I thought of lynchings, too.

[UglyGreed]

170. Yes the Billie Holliday song

that is what came to my mind right away when I saw the picture. Sorry for any confusion.

[merrily]

171. No worries. As best I can tell, confusion is a normal human condition and we're both human.

[UglyGreed]

185. Yes indeed it is

and I'm glad I'm not alone.

[Takket]

74. She'll be voting for McConnell. anyone still need inspiration to GOTV?

[WinkyDink]

84. "located on the military base"???? WTH?! "The child in the display has a knife in its back...."

[shenmue]

101. No. Just no.

Lady, no no no no no.

I have to go hide under the furniture now. I'm askaired.

[ksoze]

102. Movie reenactment gone wrong?

According to some postings, the soldier homeowner is purported to have been trying to recreate a scene from "Sinister", a movie which has a pivotal scene which resembles the one in the picture. The movie has a (white) family with hoods made up of burlap on their heads in which the child is the killer - this genius may have used garbage bags - and picked the wrong color.

[KamaAina]

111. More here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025731963

[AverageJoe90]

151. Yeah, well, I'm afraid you're wrong, madam.....

It is *very much* offensive. It's a goddamn lynching scene, for fucks' sakes! *How did you NOT fucking know this was going to offend people*?! Are you that fucking ignorant? Or do you not care?

[3catwoman3]

157. Whatever the reason...

...this was egregiously bad judgment.

[leanforward]

160. It is offensive.

[demwing]

173. The Opening Scene of "Sinister"

[Catherine Vincent]

178. Someone's trying too hard in this thread

[BP2]

179. What if the woman is black herself?

The woman is not identified in the story.

[L0oniX]

187. Well there's one that doesn't deserve the right to vote.