Farmingdale Mom Beheading Story, New details. Son Could Not Find A Doctor To Take Medicaid

[UglyGreed]

Last edited Sat Nov 1, 2014, 08:34 AM - Edit history (2)

Farmingdale mom was beheaded by disturbed son two days before meeting with psychiatrist to obtain his medications

She was just two days away from getting her psychotic son the medication that might have saved her life.

Pat Ward, 66, decapitated in her Farmingdale, L.I., apartment by her mentally ill son, had arranged a Friday appointment with a psychiatrist to get him back on his meds, the Daily News has learned.

Derek Ward, 35, who butchered his mother Tuesday night before taking his own life by jumping in front of a train, was a “sick, sick kid,” according to his uncle.

“He killed my sister because we couldn’t get the prescriptions he needed. For four days, he didn’t have his meds,” said the Rev. Robert Lubrano.

“She’s dead because he had a mental illness, and we didn’t know how serious it was. We’re in terrible shock. She was a wonderful person.”

Lubrano, also of Farmingdale, described his sister as a gentle, loving mother who tried valiantly to care for her family.


Derek Ward had battled psychiatric problems for the past decade, but he had never been violent, Lubrano said.

“He never raised his hand to her before this. Never had a gun. This is all about mental illness and the difficulty of getting a psychiatrist,” he said.



http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/disturbed-man-beheaded-mom-2-days-meeting-psychiatrist-article-1.1993915

[UglyGreed]

1. I changed

the title of the article. The original title was the following, Farmingdale mom was beheaded by disturbed son two days before meeting with psychiatrist to obtain his medications

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

28. I actually clicked through because of the new headline

to find out why they thought medicaid might help get a head reattached.

I think it's a tricky story to put a headline on.

[joeglow3]

34. Glad I am not the only one

I figured it was satire.

[UglyGreed]

61. I put

the coma in maybe I should of used a period instead. I thought it was a important fact and I feared people would just of thought it was the same story as these past few days. Anyway it is so so sad for all involved.

[Kalidurga]

2. I like the change

or "Universal Health Care coverage would save thousands of lives, including a beheaded Farmindale mother."

[tblue37]

3. Did you notice this point the woman's brother made?

"We tried to convince her to go to police, but she was terrified of the police. She thought they might hurt him.”

The cops' habit of murdering family members when they are asked to help them has made it too scary for people to ask for assistance when someone with a mental illness needs to be monitored or controlled until their episode subsides.

[WhiteAndNerdy]

4. Good catch. nt

[Lee-Lee]

6. This is less about the police and more about her typical family member denial

Police respond to, and get help for, thousands of mentally I'll people every day.

The tiny percentage with bad outcomes in no way justifies not seeking help.

But when it comes down to it virtually every single caregiver of a mentally ill child or family member that I dealt with, especially the mothers, refused to be realistic about how bad a state the person was in, and how bad a risk they were to people around them.

Instead of seeking proper care that may be uncomfortable for the person they shelter them.

They insist they are at a danger to anyone- right until this happens.

I am sure all the warning signs were there, and were ignored. That statement shows she was indeed sheltering him, and the outcome shows he was a dangerous person who shouldn't have been out in society in the state he was in.

[MyNameGoesHere]

12. lol. Bad outcomes, like death? eom

[Lee-Lee]

13. Or beheading mom? eom

[kcr]

65. Because that happens every day?

Your stigmatization of the mentally ill is worse than any fear of the police. At least the latter is warranted.

[Demeter]

17. And you think the parents have not had encounters with the police?

Given the alternatives, certain abuse by the authorities based on previous experience, vs. potential for violence from the child, most parents opt for the less-dangerous-for-the-child option.

Police behave inappropriately with regularity in this post 9/11 age. They were doing it even before that. It's a real and growing problem. To deny the evidence of your eyes and the experience of the public is a sign of mental illness, itself.

[CBHagman]

18. And sometimes the person is off the meds and the family is trying to get help.

That's what happened in a community where I once lived. A young man traveled in from out of state to visit his grandparents. I believe what happened was that he had run out of his medication by the time he got here, and his family was in the process of filling his prescription. I don't know what his symptoms had been before that, or if he had any previous episodes of violence, but after arriving at his grandparents' home and before he could get medication, he attacked and killed his grandparents and two of their neighbors.

[Lee-Lee]

23. And there is a case of negligence by caregivers

Go on a trip with a person known to be a danger without meds, but don't take enough medication for the duration of the trip?

[CBHagman]

69. This was an adult, and he traveled alone.

I don't know all the details, but unless someone is under constant supervision, there's not much of a guarantee (and even then things can go horribly wrong).

[Sivafae]

25. Trying to get help that isn't there isn't living in denial. nt

[mahina]

33. What are the warning signs?

My cousin is mentally ill and I need to know them for my auntie's safety. Thank you!

[bettyellen]

35. It is ALL about the police because unfortunately there is no alternative if you need to get someone

committed. I have neighbors struggling with the same issue- their son is a very large black man who needs help, and they are terrified that getting him this "help" will kill him. They were wavering about calling the police and every single neighbor advised them not to.

It is a difficult enough decision for a family to make without concerns their actions will result in fatality.

[Lee-Lee]

38. Waiting will just make things worse

They should call and say they have a family member who needs help, and ask to make an appointment to bring him in.

Then do it in a controlled, planned environment and circumstance.

If they keep waiting what will likely happen is he ends up violent, they get at thier wits end, they call the cops who show up when he is at his worst and things are far, far more likely to end up ending poorly.

Anyone telling them to not call and avoid getting him help is a fool giving advice that will just end badly. His problems won't self correct, so eventually he probably will have the cops called. Smart thing to do is make it happen soon, when he is not at his worst, in a planned and controlled environment.

[bettyellen]

48. LOL, you actually think the police will take in someone who is calm? Nope. Or that you can get some

one who is presently calm and well behaved committed? Oh dear, now I see why you think it is so easy- you have no idea how the system presently works.

They don't take in people who seem well at the moment, and they eject them as soon as they are calm anyway. It is all correctly viewed as an exercise in futility. Read up. It's not nearly as simple in real life as you imagine it to be.

[Lee-Lee]

50. I've been there, done that

Document history, call, take them in, get a 73 hour hold and eval. Past that depends on what the doctors say.

[RobinA]

57. Maybe You Live

in a different state than the rest of us. Cops bring in calm mentally ill guy? Not a chance in my state - PA. Danger to self or others. Danger AT THIS MINUTE to self or others. Not, Can be dangerous sometimes.

[MH1]

63. Well, PA is backwards in many ways (I know, I live here now, after living in many other states).

So PA may be the outlier, not the other state.

Not that I know much about the topic otherwise, just that I don't think PA should EVER be used as a barometer for what's "normal" or common.

Thankfully we will at least have a sane governor next year, barring a completely unseen calamity. Too bad the legislature will probably still be controlled by wingnuts.

[KingCharlemagne]

36. I don't know anything about who you are or your life's circumstances but I

will say this: your lack of compassion and lack of empathy is quite remarkable. You are blaming the victims here (the families), instead of sympathizing with them. I'm not sure where that attitude is coming from, but it stands out like a sore thumb.

[Lee-Lee]

37. Because when I was a deputy I was the once called to clean up the mess

The mess caused by them failing to seek and maintain timely help. The mess caused by the refusal to acknowledge the problem. The mess caused by waiting until the person is at the most unstable and dangerous to call anybody, then having to try and figure out and deal with it.

The closest I ever came to getting killed on a call was just that type of scenario. Even on the 911 call it was "kid out of control" they told the dispatcher, not saying he was full grown, twice my size, and on a psychotic break and violent.

I've been the person who got called and had to come "fix" everything at the worst possible time to do it, because parents or family refused to manage it and deal with it properly in all the day, months and years that led up to me being called.

And every time it was clear that they should have acted sooner.

And no, I nver killed anyone on any of these calls. Force had to be used on some, yes. If people don't want that outcome don't wait until the person is in the middle of a violent episode to finally seek assistance, because when you do sometimes that is the results.

Families are to blame in many circumstance when they do as I describe- refuse to admit the problem, refuse to report problems or assaults on family, shelter the person in a misguided attempt to help them- and then after all that call the police when everything explodes.

[KingCharlemagne]

41. "Families are to blame . . . " - you see, that phrasing says a lot right there. Is there

some sort of voice or source out there telling families what they "should" be doing? If there is, we never heard it in my family before we had to have my stepdaughter committed. Ironically, it was when we called police that they told us of that option. Before that, legions of shrinks and medical professionals had not said one word. So how were we supposed to know what to do? But you'd "blame" us for not following your, for want of a better word, prescription, when we never even knew it was an option to begin with?

[Lee-Lee]

45. Your family sounds like the rare exception

Some examples I dealt with:

Numerous kids who attacked parents violently- parents never reported the assault. One where teenager stabbed dad and dad lied about what happened at the ER so they wouldn't have to report it.

In every case it just got worse.

Parents who caught a 19 year old mentally challenged son molesting a young cousin and talked the child's parents out of reporting, claiming the 19 year old just "misunderstood" his relationship with her. So no police report is made, partners continue to allow him around children, he does it again a few months later to a neighbor.

Parents who knew their kid was starting fires, only tried to get help outside the system, didn't report anything when a neighbors shed burned up even though they were suspicious, and the kid eventually got burned bad when he was trying to light a neighbors RV on fire and he got gas on himself.

Same pattern, over and over and over. Caregivers, especially parents, doing everything they can to not do the right thing and seek early intervention with authorities, instead letting things get as bad as possible before calling authorities as a last resort.

[KingCharlemagne]

51. That's my point. We were the 'rare exception' not because we were geniuses or

particularly adept at dealing with children with anti-social personality disorder (or, for kids, 'Oppositional Defiant Disorder,' the childhood pre-cursor to ASPD). No, we were the 'rare exception' only because we were exceptionally lucky. My wife happened to have taken a course in Child Psychology that introduced her to the idea of Clinical Psychology (the discipline that, among other matters, deals with testing patients for various psychological disorders). One thing let to another and, lo and behold, we had a 'diagnosis'. But how many parents would be fortunate enough to travel the same path we happened to travel? Not very many. Again, legions of shrinks and medical professionals failed to call it correctly and, indeed, many of them blamed my wife for her inadequate 'parenting' skills. Until the clinical psychologist tested and found, nope, problem was pretty much exclusively genetic, nothing we did would have made any difference one way or the other.

That's why I cannot 'blame' parents ever for the mental illness of their children. There's enough heartache in such circumstances without the need to assign blame.

[Rex]

54. The lack of empathy as you point out

is what the mom was scared of the most toward police - and we see it here demonstrated by someone that claims to be a cop on DU! No wonder we have such an out of control problem with police - they are NEVER to blame for anything and look at civilians like they are all enemies of the state. If she would have gone to the police, her son would have ended up dead in a jail cell.

Of course the reality is that it was a knee-jerk reaction by a supposed cop that posts here - because the truth hurts just as bad a reality. If there is one thing I've learned on DU, it is that supposed cops that post here never see any wrong in other cops. Which is a large part of the problem imo.

[RedCappedBandit]

59. Yup.

They often just prove the point when they respond.

[Ash_F]

39. "Tiny Percentage"?

Are you some kind of expert? My personal experience would say otherwise.

I don't understand some DU'ers intense love of police. Maybe in some parts of the country, communities have a leash on their departments and they can be controlled. But not in other places.

[Lee-Lee]

40. Police interact with thousands of mentally ill people every day

You just never hear about any of that unless things go bad.

[Ash_F]

42. I've seen it go bad.

I don't need your internet lectures. We are working on it.

We recently appointed a Black police chief who is investigating shootings and prosecuting white collar crimes. The White controlled police union hates him and is trying to get him out.

We will straighten them out with time and effort. If it takes sacking half the force.

[MH1]

64. Exactly - people don't realize how media works, so it is not "tiny percentage"

to most people's perceptions.

It is a HUGE percentage of the cases they hear about.

I don't know the answer, other than in the long term, better education of schoolkids about how media and advertising works (something I've been a proponent of for years), but acknowledging the problem.

People ARE frightened to call police because of all the bad stories they hear. Not having any bad stories at all would sure help, but with strained budgets and human error, that's not likely any time soon.

[RobinA]

55. The Mentally Ill

families I have dealt with are screaming HELP US, PLEASE HELP US. And the systematic response is, Sorry, no can do until he hurts someone.

[theHandpuppet]

19. She was terrified for good cause

The police seem to have no idea how to handle the mentally ill, other than to kill them.

What a country.

[Lee-Lee]

22. Not really, you are letting the sensationalist media sway you

The police in this country deal with hundreds of thousands of mentally ill people on a daily basis.


A tiny, tiny fraction have bad outcomes.

But ANY time that the only option left is to call the police by family or a caregiver, or the persons behavior leads others to call the police, is an absolute failure already by the mental health system and by the caregivers. On the mental health system invoked be any myriad of issues. Usually on the caregivers side it stems from a refusal to acknowledge the extent of the problem and seek proper care before it gets that bad or a knowledge of how bad it is but a misguided desire to shelter the person- I ran into many cases where a mentally ill family member had repeatedly physically assaulted family yet no report was ever made to "keep them out of the system". One where a mentally challenged 19 year old was found molesting a 7 year old cousin but mom talked the parents out of reporting because he just "Misinterpreted their relationship" so 6 months later same 19 year old is caught sexually assaulting an 8 year old neighbor, and cops have to go clean up the mess. Then when things inevitably get so bad the family is at wits end they call the police, or the person does something to someone else who calls police, and the police have to go in blind with no history of this person, usually when they are in the middle of a psychotic break and at their worst, and they are expected to clean up the mess the family and caregivers made by refusing to properly manage it earlier on, before the crisis state.

So family, caregivers and the mental health system fail, a person is at their worst and in crisis, then the cops are called and they are expected to have 100% perfect outcomes in cleaning up the mess.

It's a broken system all the way along, but when it fails all the way and the police are called only the police are blamed on the tiny percentage or cases it ends badly.

[Rex]

56. Even worse, cops are never wrong about anything!

No wonder they are out of control, they never do anything wrong - according to supposed cops that post here on DU.

[treestar]

24. I don't' think this should be used as another police bashing opportunity

There is no certainly they would have killed him. That's OTT.

He should have been locked up and there are many reasons that failed to happen.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

30. OTT?

It's a direct statement from a family member of the deceased. He stated the deceased didn't want the police involved because of the cases of police killing the mentally disturbed. Sure, they don't kill every mentally ill person. But the mentally ill are in far greater danger from the police than your average citizen. There seem to be far too many police stations that don't appear to offer enough training on how to deal with the mentally ill.

[Rex]

58. But but but...cops are never wrong or break the law!

They are great people...honest.

[etherealtruth]

60. sadly, her fear was legitimate ):

[Lee-Lee]

5. I know I am going to make people mad for saying this

But as a society we have to look at some things.

If you are only 4 days of missed medication, that is voluntarily taken, away from being in a mental state where you behead your mother- are you really safe to be out as a member of society at large?

[cali]

7. And how was anyone to know that he was only days away from beheading his mother?

You have no idea of his history or whether family members are recounting it accurately but you have the overweening arrogance to claim that YOU know better and provide exactly zero evidence to support your nothing-but-conjecture.

Just what are your suggestions?

[Lee-Lee]

8. Clearly he was under treatment

My solution is a much, much larger nationalized mental health service.

Laws that give greater powers to doctors in that service to mandate meds are taken by people who can pose a risk to themselves or others without them, with strict enforcement mechanisms.

Part of that system should be 24/7 mental health emergency rooms within an hours drive of almost everybody. That way it doesn't end up with the police with no clue of a persons needs or history responding only after things have become way too bad, there is an option for caregivers to get a doctors help always.

I am sure there were warning signs. There almost always are.

[cali]

9. that is largely a crap solution.

No, there are quite often no reliable warning signs of violence. And the vast number of people who are mentally ill are not violent. Forced medication orders should be hard to obtain. I worked for the federally mandated PAIMI program which protects the rights of the mentally ill and I've seen enough abuse of the mentally ill on the part of the state to last several lifetimes.

[Lee-Lee]

14. So then accept that more outcome like this will occur

There is no magic solution that protects society and also doesn't infringe at all on the freedoms of those with a demonstrated potential to be violent.

Family members were seeing how bad it was and telling her to call the police- so the warning signs were there.

[DebJ]

11. Sometimes the meds prescribed by particular doctors are the worst choice meds.

We have dealt with this in my family. A psych in charge of the mental health care ward at a hospital (in a different state than mine)
so consistently prescribes one particular medication that other docs in the area have even made comments to my family member
about how pushy he is with this med. This med triggered a severe suicidal reaction with my family member. Fortunately, they are
sound enough of mind to monitor their own meds and their reaction to them.

With over 30 years of experience with this stuff through my family member, I'd never give a doctor the final say so in med choices. Never.

[Ilsa]

10. Medications help schizophrenic people function in society.

Are you proposing we lock away everyone with these diagnoses and mood disorders because they might miss their meds? How about time-travelling forward to the 21st century and living in the real world.

[Lee-Lee]

15. Did I say everybody?

Or just those who have demonstrated the potential to be violent if they can't reliably take the mess that keep them from being a threat to others.

[Ilsa]

29. This case doesn't fit your paradigm either.

The uncle reports he had never been violent in the past. That's why his mother had been able to care for him for so long.

[Lee-Lee]

32. I family members were urging her to go to police

It wasn't because he was a perfect angel.

[HereSince1628]

20. Abruptly stopping some psychiatric drugs can result in dangerous side-effects

it isn't clear what drug or how long the man was on them.

I'm not going to speculate, but rather say this to raise awareness...

Withdrawl from psychiatric drugs can generate side-effects which can be hazardous. Gradual reduction of dosage is recommended to be done while under a Drs care.

Irritability, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, and aggressive behavior are among the side-effect profiles of withdrawl from some of these drugs.

Running out of meds that have such side-effect and being forced to go cold-turkey could be exceedingly dangerous and the side-effects that emerge might not be characteristic to the person's historic behavior.

Fear that the dangerousness of his behavior prior to drug withdrawl would be similar to the behavior manifest after withdrawl isn't valid. Without any knowledge of his actual behavior it's indistinguishable from post-hoc propter hoc fallacy.

If we're going to get into the "THERE OUTTA BE A LAW" the law ought to be such that no one gets trapped into the situation where they have to go cold-turkey off such drugs and experience the side-effects of withrdrawl. Persons on these drugs should be guaranteed access to medication and supervision so that they can taper off.

[Quackers]

31. Exactly!

In my area, we are fortunate enough to have pharmacist that will provide up to a weeks supply without prescription if you've been taking certain meds for a long time. For example, blood pressure and mental health meds.

[HereSince1628]

52. That's great about supplies to taper off...do you think people generally know

that is available?

[lumberjack_jeff]

68. We only know that he was violent post-facto.

How do you propose stress testing people with mental illness to evaluate their worst-case public risk?

[deutsey]

16. What a tragic, depressing story

Pat Ward apparently had a very difficult life and still did all she could to help her son.

[Sunlei]

21. USA medical care system sucks. Even with family trying to help, persons in desperate need are exclud

excluded.

[Tatiana]

26. The problem is families have no support system for the mentally ill.

Funding has been cut drastically for residential treatment facilities (which it seems like this son could have qualified for).

The facilities that are still open have had to drastically reduce staff. So, if there is no bed available, often parents will choose to try to manage the situation at home, even though their children may be on the verge of an episode. The police rarely know how to handle mentally ill people in crisis.

This is a sad situation all around. We need to not only restore funding for our social service agencies and medical providers that deal with mentally disabled individuals, but we need to seriously invest in more residential treatment centers and research facilities.

[Brickbat]

27. If he'd shot her, this would be a gun thread, instead of what it should be: a mental illness thread.

[hunter]

46. Umm. And?

Mental illness and guns don't mix. Mentally ill people with guns do a lot more damage than mentally ill people without guns.

Plain old idiots with guns do a lot more damage than plain old idiots without guns.

Ordinary people with guns do a lot more damage than ordinary people without guns.

Cops with guns do a lot more damage than cops with guns.

If you want to make it about guns, there you go.

Our society would be a much less hazardous place with fewer guns.

[Zorra]

43. Irony: the US Healthcare system is terminally ill. nt

[Puzzledtraveller]

44. Sounds like psychosis from withdrawal.

Fuk psych meds. Oh does that make me anti-science? You all got a pill for that?

[hunter]

49. I'm dysfunctional without psych meds.

Plain and simple, same way as I can't breathe without asthma meds.

Yep, pills are over-prescribed and inappropriately prescribed.

Does that mean everyone for whom a medicine *is* appropriate should suffer?

Quitting some meds is a nightmare. We need a medical system set up to immediately deal with medical problems like this, either problems refilling prescriptions, or for people who have decided to come in off the streets and deal with their addictions.

I've quit psych meds cold turkey, sometimes for simple lack of money, sometimes for gradually slipping into a dark place where I had no wish to see a doctor.

Here in the U.S.A. it's easy to find oneself in a place where help is unavailable, unaffordable, inappropriate, judgmental, or actually dangerous.

[fizzgig]

53. spoken like someone with no clue

shit gets ugly when i'm not on my meds. not everyone on meds should be, but many of us need them to function.

maybe you shouldn't talk about things you don't know about.

[joeglow3]

47. This is a problem with Medicaid and, to a lesser extent, Medicare

Their reimbursement rates are so shitty that more and more Doctors are refusing to accept it. My wife's office ran the numbers and they were LOSING money on many procedures and making little on the rest. They are an established practice and will no longer accept new patients with medicare and medicaid.

[Shankapotomus]

62. Catch-22

Some families will need professional counseling and psychiatry to, ultimately, prevent people from being hurt. On the other hand, in the bad cases, you don't get professional counseling or psychiatry unless someone gets hurt.

"Dear Alien species, Please take me away from this simpleton race of humans....I don't care anymore." - The Amazing Athiest.

[UglyGreed]

66. Spot on

I totally agree. By the way I have not signed into youtube in awhile, but when I did subscribe to channels The Amazing Atheist was one of my favorite channel, even though I'm not an atheist.

[Shankapotomus]

67. He's still good

He still gets into scraps with feminists now and then but he's not all wrong. One of my favorite videos from him is the mirror confusion rant. I think he was in an actual terrified panic that he was on a planet where a large portion of people didn't know how mirrors worked...lol.

[pnwmom]

70. She did find a doctor but she and her son couldn't wait 2 days. She should have called 911. n/t