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Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 02:48 PM Apr 2012

A Woman’s Lifetime Earnings Lost To Pay Gap Could Feed A Family Of Four For 37 Years

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/04/17/465554/pay-gap-feed-family-37/?mobile=nc

As of today — which is Equal Pay Day 2012 — women make 77 cents for every dollar that men earn. Over the course of a woman’s career, that disparity adds up to more than $430,000 in lost wages for an individual woman. As Center for American Progress economic analyst Matt Separa noted, the pay gap means that women fall behind economically in a number of ways:

Because of this gap women working full time are able to afford less education, housing, transportation, food, and health care for themselves and their families than their male counterparts. As a result women and female-headed households are more likely to be in poverty and less likely to have health insurance. The pay gap translates into a significant economic disadvantage for women and their families, especially when nearly two-thirds (63.9 percent) of women are now either the primary breadwinner or a co-breadwinner, bringing home at least 25 percent of their family’s income.
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A Woman’s Lifetime Earnings Lost To Pay Gap Could Feed A Family Of Four For 37 Years (Original Post) Luminous Animal Apr 2012 OP
But it buys a 1%'er another house. liberal N proud Apr 2012 #1
surprised this post isn't getting more love nashville_brook Apr 2012 #2
that's a pretty typical reaction to women's issues BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2012 #4
Or maybe is much ado about nothing taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #6
Hey I just got home from work varelse Apr 2012 #47
:) glad this got kicked -- ! nashville_brook Apr 2012 #54
I thought the 77% myth has long been debunked taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #3
Feel free to "trot" out the old debunking arguments... please. Please do so. nt riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #5
Here you go taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #7
Not debunked... Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #8
You've actually proved my point taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #10
I am not going to lend credence to a report commissioned by the Bush Admin and done by a Rand Corp Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #13
+10000000000000 nashville_brook Apr 2012 #55
Your link explained nothing taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #66
Actually, most studies up to this Randian pretty much supported this stat. Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #70
Your own article doesn't support the stat, if you read it carefully. They blazon "77%," but read HiPointDem Apr 2012 #79
It's not a rand spin-off, it's headed by a former rand employee. somewhat different. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #67
= 60% of that "77% gap" is an artifact. I think that's a debunking. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #11
as if those factors were dismissable anyway iverglas Apr 2012 #14
Yep... Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #32
too bad iverglas Apr 2012 #38
Ugly is right. Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #40
self delete hlthe2b Apr 2012 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #44
You are right.... Sorry.. hlthe2b Apr 2012 #45
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #46
Some stay at home parents are like that. I know, I used to cater to Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #50
I agree with the 1st paragraph 100%. Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #56
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #72
Doesn't matter what you believe, she says it was her choice and there's no particular reason HiPointDem Apr 2012 #80
Why do men take jobs which yield an 1150% greater risk of death? n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #17
And women? I'm a female farmer - one of the most dangerous occupations on any list. nt riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #18
but men disproportionately perform the most dangerous jobs. that's just a fact. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #60
I'm sure you have an answer, and a source iverglas Apr 2012 #23
What relevance does any of the stuff you posted hold? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #26
that's for me to know iverglas Apr 2012 #28
oh, and by the way iverglas Apr 2012 #29
the actual source of your pretty pic has some more meaningful info iverglas Apr 2012 #33
Do you have a link for that? riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #34
Mining, farming, fishing, roofing, pay more than comparably skilled safe jobs. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #37
Link to factual back up your statements in your other post? riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #43
. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #52
You made the statement, back it up. nt riderinthestorm Apr 2012 #53
I did. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #61
You should commission a study... LanternWaste Apr 2012 #92
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #35
is there a diffference between your behaviour in this thread iverglas Apr 2012 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #90
Something wrong with this statistic. For most people, 37 years is about close to a lifetime's work HiPointDem Apr 2012 #9
In 2010 women who worked full time, year round, still only earned 77 percent of what men earned Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #15
"average" HiPointDem Apr 2012 #20
I have no idea what you are talking about... Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #22
77% accounts for neither occupation nor overtime nor experience. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #27
Bureau of Labor Statistics says 81%. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #63
It's from the "Mitt Romney fun with math" school of statistics. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #19
And my sister washes shit off of old people. Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #24
And the men that do the same job (I'm assuming nurses' aide) get the same lousy pay. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #65
Well, there is the rub. A traditional man's job (education and training) will command Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #68
and that's a question that "women only make 77% of what men do" does nothing to advance HiPointDem Apr 2012 #69
Actually, it does. And is the root of the parity movement. Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #71
Equal pay for equal work is already the law of the land, and so is non-discrimination in hiring. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #74
and that's where i disagree with you, when you put wage differences in job categories down to HiPointDem Apr 2012 #73
How did "traditional mens jobs" become that? lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #89
pretty funny iverglas Apr 2012 #25
Women ALWAYS put a higher premium on nonmonetary reward BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2012 #36
One at a time. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #51
"holding the same full-time, year-round job" is a misrepresentation, intentional or otherwise. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #81
yes, thank you! BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2012 #84
I agree that nurses aides are underpaid for what they do. That said, they *did* chose to do it. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #93
Your male friend doesn't "deserve" to get paid more than women. nt Liquorice Apr 2012 #64
He doesn't. The job does. nt lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #85
Women don't need to feed families. Iris Apr 2012 #12
I didn't say anything like that. They *do* need to feed families, and half of them do it on abysmal HiPointDem Apr 2012 #21
I was replying to the OP. Iris Apr 2012 #30
no problem, my mistake. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #58
Both kinds of disparities exist. undeterred Apr 2012 #31
The disparity between the bottom 20% and the top 20% is larger and has larger ramifications for HiPointDem Apr 2012 #57
The problem being laundry_queen Apr 2012 #75
Yes, they're going to hire the woman, but it could just as easily be an h1b male or anyone else HiPointDem Apr 2012 #78
mkay. laundry_queen Apr 2012 #88
I recently finished reading "Women Don't Ask" varelse Apr 2012 #48
Damn. lonestarnot Apr 2012 #59
Yeah. Rex Apr 2012 #62
Now that I read the entire article, I see how duplicitous it is. While trumpeting the lifetime HiPointDem Apr 2012 #76
I didn't know there were wage gap deniers. And to find one on the DU of all places! nt Liquorice Apr 2012 #82
show me where i deny a wage gap. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #83
Sure. There are some honest people here, too.nt lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #87
Nobody in the thread is denying a wage gap taught_me_patience Apr 2012 #91
Male full time workers also work more overtime. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #86
k&r Starry Messenger Apr 2012 #77

varelse

(4,062 posts)
47. Hey I just got home from work
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 09:30 PM
Apr 2012

and I'm not yawning now. I *might* be fighting back tears though. This is pretty discouraging.

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
3. I thought the 77% myth has long been debunked
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 04:06 PM
Apr 2012

It doesn't account for differences in career choices or career duration between men and women. Trotting out this old and debunked statistic really discredits the cause.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
8. Not debunked...
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 04:25 PM
Apr 2012
9. More than 40 percent of the wage gap cannot be explained by occupation, work experience, race, or union membership. More than one-quarter of the wage gap is due to the different jobs that men and women hold, and about 10 percent is due to the fact that women are more likely to leave the workforce to provide unpaid care to family members. But even when controlling for gender and racial differences, 41 percent is “unexplainable by measureable factors.” Even if women and men have the same background, the wage gap still exists, highlighting the fact that part of the discrepancy can be attributed to gender-based pay discrimination.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2012/04/wage_gap_facts.html
 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
10. You've actually proved my point
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 04:32 PM
Apr 2012

According to this 2007 study, 41% is unexplainable... thus the real gap is 10% and not 23%.

Please see my post #7, a newer 2009 study done by the labor department that suggests that 5-7% is unexplainable.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
13. I am not going to lend credence to a report commissioned by the Bush Admin and done by a Rand Corp
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 04:55 PM
Apr 2012

spin-off.

There are more factors involved in the gender gap than the 41% unexplainable statistic. If you had read the rest of my link, you would know that.

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
66. Your link explained nothing
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 12:21 AM
Apr 2012

and if you want to pick and choose studies, ignore real reasons for the gap, and cling to a bullshit 77% number that any statistician would say is skewed, then go ahead. I'm saying, that by doing that, you're seriously cheapening the cause. The 5-10% unexplained differences is a serious issue that needs further study and action.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
70. Actually, most studies up to this Randian pretty much supported this stat.
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 12:29 AM
Apr 2012

And there is a lot of criticism about the methodology.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
79. Your own article doesn't support the stat, if you read it carefully. They blazon "77%," but read
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 02:19 AM
Apr 2012

the fine print. They essentially say that all but 9% of the differential is explained by other factors. They just don't say it clearly.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
67. It's not a rand spin-off, it's headed by a former rand employee. somewhat different.
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 12:22 AM
Apr 2012

"He has performed policy analysis and personally advised the White House staffs (and often the Presidents) since Presidents Kennedy and Johnson, the latter two on corporate and personal income tax policy, and Presidents Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush on regional economic development, environmental, energy, health and safety policy issues, regulatory reform, technology impact assessment and workplace substance abuse policy."

http://consad.com/index.php?page=people

Looks like an equal opportunity think tank.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
11. = 60% of that "77% gap" is an artifact. I think that's a debunking.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 04:35 PM
Apr 2012

Now let's examine the "gap" between low-wage women and high-wage women.

 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
14. as if those factors were dismissable anyway
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:01 PM
Apr 2012
about 10 percent is due to the fact that women are more likely to leave the workforce to provide unpaid care to family members

-- a "choice" that is commonly determined by the fact that there is no alternative available for that care, and the fact that women are stereotyped in society as the ones who should be providing that care ... and especially the fact that women typically earn less than their male partners and thus are the ones whose incomes are foregone when an adult has to leave the workforce for these functions.


More than one-quarter of the wage gap is due to the different jobs that men and women hold

-- and of course that is the case because men and women are just born to hold different jobs ... and the pay assigned to women's jobs has nothing to do with the fact that the jobs are done by women ...


Kind of circular, isn't it all?

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
16. Yep...
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:08 PM
Apr 2012
-- and of course that is the case because men and women are just born to hold different jobs ... and the pay assigned to women's jobs has nothing to do with the fact that the jobs are done by women .


Some people seem to believe that nurses deserve to get paid less than a man for comparable work because nursing is "women's work".

Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #16)

 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
38. too bad
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 08:33 PM
Apr 2012

If you wanted to come right out and name the person you are posting false allegations against, readers might want to know what your evidence was, and then they would know what you were talking about and see how ugly what you are saying is.

On the other hand, you could just leave the creepiness somewhere appropriate, and not post in a thread unless you have something worth saying about the subject matter.

Response to iverglas (Reply #38)

Response to hlthe2b (Reply #42)

Response to hlthe2b (Reply #45)

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
49. Some stay at home parents are like that. I know, I used to cater to
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 09:57 PM
Apr 2012

those kind of moms when I managed one of the most exclusive children's store in San Francisco. They'd shop through the sterling silver teething rings, the $400 velvet capes, and genuine $200 mohair Steiff bears... while the nannies tended the kids.

Other moms stay at home and are very active with their children, their schools, and their community.

Poor women have always had to work for the bare necessities. Now most labor class and lower middle class women have to work full time. Declining wages, outrageous housing, medical, and education costs have pretty much ensured that. Not much thought is given to them and their little unsupervised monsters.

I'm glad that my dad was a union worker at GM while I was growing up and he could afford to provide for an entire family of 5. I appreciated my mom mostly a stay at home mom... she did drive school bus for a few years to add to our college fund. There were times that my mom wanted to be branch out but my dad was resistant and maintained that her place was in the home (much like Romney). But when my dad was sick for 2.5 years, and they drained all of their savings and our college funds and he died when she was 38 years old, she had no higher education and no job skills. This was in 1977 when nearly 100% of private industry in the state of Delaware had a hiring freeze. It took my mom nearly 2 years to find a full-time job that would pay the mortgage and the bills. During which, as a consequence, I, at age 18 and a full-time sophomore in college, expanded my hours at K-Mart to work full time and was paying 100% of the mortgage, and buying about half the groceries and the utilities and still going to college full time. A situation that still 35 years later, causes my mom undue guilt.

But, it did have an upside. Her experience spurred her on to become a champion of feminism... a concept that she knew little about but readily mocked. She lost all of her old friendships over her, "I Am Woman" transformation. She found better friends.

Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #49)

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
56. I agree with the 1st paragraph 100%.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 10:33 PM
Apr 2012

And I think we need a smarter strategy to the 2nd paragraph. I do believe that poor and working class women have a standing to criticize rich women for a "choice" that they never really had to make. And, Ann Romney has already revealed that Mitt, the head of the family, made that choice for her. To pretend umbrage over that patriarchal "choice" is insulting.

Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #56)

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
80. Doesn't matter what you believe, she says it was her choice and there's no particular reason
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 02:38 AM
Apr 2012

to disbelieve her except your own preconceptions.

Rich women *do* have a choice, no reason to put it in scare quotes. Ann Romney's lifetime earnings are below the median -- does that mean she's a victim of patriarchy?

If Mitt died tomorrow she could easily get a 1%-ers job using connections and make up that "lifetime gap" in a year.

 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
23. I'm sure you have an answer, and a source
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:38 PM
Apr 2012
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ph-sp/determinants/index-eng.php#key_determinants

Determinants of Health
... Key Determinants

<click each at the page to see premises and evidence; I reproduce some salient points below>

Income and Social Status
Only 47% of Canadians in the lowest income bracket rate their health as very good or excellent, compared with 73% of Canadians in the highest income group.
Low-income Canadians are more likely to die earlier and to suffer more illnesses than Canadians with higher incomes, regardless of age, sex, race and place of residence.
At each rung up the income ladder, Canadians have less sickness, longer life expectancies and improved health.
Studies suggest that the distribution of income in a given society may be a more important determinant of health than the total amount of income earned by society members. Large gaps in income distribution lead to increases in social problems and poorer health among the population as a whole.

Social Support Networks

Education and Literacy

Employment/Working Conditions
Employment has a significant effect on a person's physical, mental and social health. Paid work provides not only money, but also a sense of identity and purpose, social contacts and opportunities for personal growth. When a person loses these benefits, the results can be devastating to both the health of the individual and his or her family. Unemployed people have a reduced life expectancy and suffer significantly more health problems than people who have a job.
... Participation in the wage economy, however, is only part of the picture. Many Canadians (especially women) spend almost as many hours engaged in unpaid work, such as doing housework and caring for children or older relatives. When these two workloads are combined on an ongoing basis and little or no support is offered, an individual's level of stress and job satisfaction is bound to suffer. Between 1991 and 1995, the proportion of Canadian workers who were "very satisfied" with their work declined, and was more pronounced among female workers, dropping from 58% to 49%. Reported levels of work stress followed the same pattern. In the 1996­97 NPHS, more women reported high work stress levels than men in every age category. Women aged 20 to 24 were almost three times as likely to report high work stress than the average Canadian worker.

Social Environments
Family violence has a devastating effect on the health of women and children in both the short and long term. In 1996, family members were accused in 24% of all assaults against children; among very young children, the proportion was much higher.
Women who are assaulted often suffer severe physical and psychological health problems; some are even killed. In 1997, 80% of victims of spousal homicide were women, and another 19 women were killed by a boyfriend or ex-boyfriend.

Physical Environments

Personal Health Practices and Coping Skills

Healthy Child Development

Biology and Genetic Endowment

Health Services

Gender
Men are more likely to die prematurely than women, largely as a result of heart disease, fatal unintentional injuries, cancer and suicide. Rates of potential years of life lost before age 70 are almost twice as high for men than women and approximately three times as high among men aged 20 to 34.
While women live longer than men, they are more likely to suffer depression, stress overload (often due to efforts to balance work and family life), chronic conditions such as arthritis and allergies, and injuries and death resulting from family violence.
While overall cancer death rates for men have declined, they have remained persistently stubborn among women, mainly due to increases in lung cancer mortality. Teenage girls are now more likely than adolescent boys to smoke. If increased rates of smoking among young women are not reversed, lung cancer rates among women will continue to climb.
See also articles on Rural, remote and northern women - where you live matters to your health and How being Black and female affects your health

Culture


Women, on average, have lower incomes and social status; suffer the stress associated with the double workload of women with families; are at hugely higher risk of injury and death at the hands of intimate partners; suffer more negative health effects from minority status.

Some of these are obviously associated with employment. Women may not work at "dangerous" jobs at the same rate as men do, but working (or being excluded from working by factors associated with sex) is dangerous to women's health in a number of ways.

If this is a competition ...



(edited; misplaced one of the information excerpts)
 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
26. What relevance does any of the stuff you posted hold?
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 06:35 PM
Apr 2012

Men are 93% of workplace fatalities.

They choose dangerous careers because they pay better.

The pay gap isn't the gap between men and women, it's the gap in pay between safe jobs and unsafe ones.

 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
29. oh, and by the way
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 07:27 PM
Apr 2012
The pay gap isn't the gap between men and women, it's the gap in pay between safe jobs and unsafe ones.


What utter and complete claptrap.

But heck, I suppose you have something to back it up. Like the data that actually equates pay with level of safety.

Snork.
 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
33. the actual source of your pretty pic has some more meaningful info
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 07:47 PM
Apr 2012

www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfch0008.pdf

Unfortunately, I can't copy and paste the pics in a pdf.

I'll direct you to:

Manner in which fatal work injuries occurred, 2009*
"More fatal work injuries resulted from transportation incidents than from any other event. Highway incidents alone accounted for one out of every five fatal work injuries in 2009."
(Assaults and violent acts accounted for 18%, and homicides, see a later graph, accounted for a significantly higher proportion of female deaths.)


Fatal injury events, by gender of worker, 2009*
"A higher percentage of fatal work injuries to women resulted from highway incidents and homicides than to men. A higher percentage of fatal work injuries to men resulted from contact with objects and equipment, falls, and exposure to harmful substances or environments."


When we see the detalis, your thesis just doesn't hold up really well. Yes, falls from roofs are much more common among men. Are roofers highly paid where you are? Not where I am.

But highway and transportation incidents (like, plane crashes)? Strikes me that many more men travel on business than women do. I'm thinking that, oh, CEO or travelling sales rep isn't really what people think of when they think "dangerous job".


Four most frequent work-related fatal injury events, 1992–2009*
(Highway incidents way up top, followed by homicides, falls and struck by object.)

Bizarrely, there were 1044 homicides on the job in 1992, 521 in 2009: 12% of the total. A reduction of just about exactly half, but still pretty weird. And just not something that I think factors into the "dangerous job" assessment. Depending on how many of them were police officers, security guards, etc., I guess. Occupations traditionally resistent to women hires ...

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
34. Do you have a link for that?
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 07:48 PM
Apr 2012

"The pay gap isn't the gap between men and women, it's the gap in pay between safe jobs and unsafe ones."

Because the most dangerous jobs are not usually high paying (like farming, mining etc)

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
37. Mining, farming, fishing, roofing, pay more than comparably skilled safe jobs.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 08:31 PM
Apr 2012

More male truck drivers alone died on the job last year than women workers in every occupation.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
43. Link to factual back up your statements in your other post?
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 09:24 PM
Apr 2012

Not just more text without some kind of real statistics.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
92. You should commission a study...
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 04:26 PM
Apr 2012

You should commission a study...

(unless of course, you're simply attempting to be clever...)

Response to iverglas (Reply #14)

 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
41. is there a diffference between your behaviour in this thread
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 08:53 PM
Apr 2012

and stalking?

Let me know what it might be, and be sure to supply a microscope.

Oh, and if you can supply directions to the similarity between your words and something resembling truth, that would be useful too.

Please do it somewhere other than the thread you are intentionally disrupting, though.

Response to iverglas (Reply #41)

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
9. Something wrong with this statistic. For most people, 37 years is about close to a lifetime's work
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 04:29 PM
Apr 2012

(It's 37 years from age 22 to age 59).

Median income for all workers = $26K, which means half of workers make less. So if women make less than men, the majority of women make *less* than this figure for all women. But in fact, as you go *down* the income hierarchy, women's and men's wages equalize, with women out-earning men in some categories.

$26K a year for 40 years = 1,170,000.

IMO, this number is an artifact of the right-shift in "average" that occurs when income generally is skewed to the top. It's the same reason the "average" income of all workers is something like 50K while the median income = $26K. High earners shift the "average" right. The average income of me & bill gates = 45 billion, etc.

What pisses me off about statistics like this is that they actually "disappear" the *real* problem for low income women, which is not so much that they're paid less than their male equivalents, but that the entire segment of the workforce is underpaid, basically at a subsistence level.

Such analyses convert the problem of class power into a problem of "gender power", using low-income women as poster child.

However, it's not low-income women who benefit from such analyses, but high-income women -- & their male and female spouses and partners.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
15. In 2010 women who worked full time, year round, still only earned 77 percent of what men earned
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:04 PM
Apr 2012

The key words are full time, year round.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File ersonal_income.png

(Graph is from 2006. I'll see if I can find a more current one.)

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
22. I have no idea what you are talking about...
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:36 PM
Apr 2012

Median:
1. In 2010 women who worked full time, year round, still only earned 77 percent of what men earned. The median earnings for women were $36,931 compared to $47,715 for men, and neither real median earnings nor the female-to-male earnings ratio have increased since 2009.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2012/04/wage_gap_facts.html

Median:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File ersonal_income.png

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
27. 77% accounts for neither occupation nor overtime nor experience.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 06:39 PM
Apr 2012

It is acknowledged that commercial fishing pays better than being a florist... if you survive long enough to get the paycheck.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
63. Bureau of Labor Statistics says 81%.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 11:53 PM
Apr 2012

"Half of all women working as full-time wage and salary workers earned $669 or more per week in 2010. This median weekly wage was 81.2 percent of that earned by men."

http://www.dol.gov/_sec/media/reports/femalelaborforce/

Now factor in the other disparities: women more likely to work in the public sector (18% v. 12%), in service occupations (20% v. 11%), sales (20% v. 11%) and other "pink-collar" jobs (by choice or inertia of tradition), women less likely to work OT, etc. -- and what you have left is something like a 10% or disparity.

The law of the land is equal pay for equal work. That can be gotten around in various ways, but more often in high-paying jobs than in low-paying ones, and more often in private jobs where job descriptions can be tailored or duties added to justify the income of chosen "stars".

Paying women less than men for the same work is not the main reason for male-female wage disparities. Active discrimination against women is not the main reason for the disparities. I'm a woman, btw, one who's been in the workforce 40 years and worked everything from minimum wage to professional jobs, factory jobs to academia. My opinion on the matter and my experience is every bit as valid as any other woman's.

Focusing narrowly on that statistical gap in earnings excludes a wealth of other data points that could be used to make a case for discriminatory practices *favoring* women.

Men's wages at or under the median have been flat since 1973. Women's median wages have increased about 30% -- which means that gains for women at or under the median have all come at the expense of their male compatriots, and the wage "savings" for median workers have all gone to upper income groups.

17% of men in the labor force support children under 18, v. 16% of women. But the earnings gap between full-time moms and dads is *smallest* between black men and women (16%), *largest* between white men and women (and asian men and women) at 27% -- which to my way of thinking indicates more privilege and choice for white & asian women than black women -- not more discrimination, even though the typical reading of this "income gap" would indicate the opposite.






In my opinion this pitting of men v. women is designed to take the focus off the concentration of income and power to the top 20% and above.





 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
19. It's from the "Mitt Romney fun with math" school of statistics.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:18 PM
Apr 2012

It may be true, strictly speaking, but it's a statistic which is both completely misleading and inherently impossible to mitigate.

Women make less because they choose jobs for different reasons than men choose jobs. Women ALWAYS put a higher premium on nonmonetary reward, and go to college to get these jobs. Men on the other hand put a higher premium on money, and are more likely to choose jobs which are more dangerous, difficult and are less rewarding in exchange for that higher pay.

I have a friend who is a drives a septic tank truck. I have never seen a woman do this job, even though the pay is pretty good. He only has to get in the septic tank for repairs occasionally, and the tank is mostly pumped out (usually no more than knee-deep), and the homeowner usually doesn't flush the toilet while he's in there.

He earns every penny of whatever pay gap exists.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
24. And my sister washes shit off of old people.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:42 PM
Apr 2012

Lifts and turns people over, lifts heavy mattresses up and watches children die. For her efforts and 10-12 hour shifts, she's ended up with torn rotator cuffs, chronic neck and back pain, and heel spurs.

She does not deserve whatever pay gap exists.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
65. And the men that do the same job (I'm assuming nurses' aide) get the same lousy pay.
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 12:08 AM
Apr 2012

It's an issue of why is that job paid so poorly, and it's not simply because it's done mostly by women.

It's a question of why 10-12 hour shifts are deemed most "efficient," and it has nothing to do with the percent of women in the job category.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
68. Well, there is the rub. A traditional man's job (education and training) will command
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 12:24 AM
Apr 2012

a higher rate of pay. That is one aspect of the gender gap... a traditional "woman's work" job despite the educational and training hurdles will be worth less than a traditional "men's work" job that requires less education and training. It is not about an individual male nurse making the same as a female nurse. Or an individual female garbage collector making the same as an individual male garbage collector. It is the monetary value that we place on any traditional gender based profession.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
69. and that's a question that "women only make 77% of what men do" does nothing to advance
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 12:27 AM
Apr 2012

discussion of.

First, the statistic itself has problems.
Second, the presentation turns it into a "men v. women" issue. But it's not particularly.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
74. Equal pay for equal work is already the law of the land, and so is non-discrimination in hiring.
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 12:54 AM
Apr 2012

so what is the goal of the "parity movement"?

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
73. and that's where i disagree with you, when you put wage differences in job categories down to
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 12:52 AM
Apr 2012

them being "traditionally male" or "traditionally female".

Schoolteacher/schoolmaster has always been a comparatively low-wage professional job, even when the majority of teachers were male. And post-war schoolteachers (mostly female) gained, from activism, retirement and health benefits unknown to their male predecessors.

Similarly, pastor/minister is a professional job where men have historically, and into the present day, predominated over women. Yet unless one gets an appointment in a "good" (i.e. wealthy) church, it doesn't pay well. In fact, it often pays abysmally.

The meat-packing industry is one where men were more likely to work than women, historically. And historically, it was a low-wage job. But wages and benefits improved dramatically because of the labor movement, and this was coincident with increased hiring of women.

However, wages and security in the meat-packing industry were destroyed around the time of the Reagan revolution. But this shit-wages industry is equal opportunity.

Nurses' aide has always been a poorly-paid job, even when hospitals were nearly exclusively staffed by men. Conversely, registered nurses, a predominately female profession for a long time, make a median wage of $31/hour ($66K a year), not too bad for a 4-year degree, half of which you can do at community college.

I just don't buy this simplistic "it's because they're traditionally male jobs" argument. There's some truth to it, but it's not the whole truth.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
89. How did "traditional mens jobs" become that?
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 11:08 AM
Apr 2012

At one time, almost all outside-the-home jobs were men's jobs, right?

What has occurred is that men have been displaced from most of the jobs that don't require
1) significant workplace hazards
2) lots of physical strength
3) major ethical compromises
4) higher math, analytic and spatial relationship aptitude
5) a dirty, cold or rainy workplace

If the money were the same, both men and women have an interest in accounting, so there are two applicants for every one applicant for a position as a mechanic. It's unsurprising that careers for which there is a bigger supply of labor are the ones which have reduced wages.

My nephew is a RN. He makes a very good living... by accepting all the overtime available to him and filling in for his co workers.

If the problem is that the occupation of teachers aid and garbage collector have different wages, then the problem is irresolvable without more women becoming garbage collectors, because there is a smaller pool of people willing and able to do that job, and the turnover in the job is greater because those who do, have a short career before inevitable injury renders them disabled.

 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
25. pretty funny
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:43 PM
Apr 2012
I have a friend who is a drives a septic tank truck. I have never seen a woman do this job, even though the pay is pretty good. He only has to get in the septic tank for repairs occasionally, and the tank is mostly pumped out (usually no more than knee-deep), and the homeowner usually doesn't flush the toilet while he's in there.

He earns every penny of whatever pay gap exists.

Unlike all the nurses, nursing aides, child care workers and other caregivers who work with poop and pee *and* the human beings who produce it, all day long, day in and year out ...

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
36. Women ALWAYS put a higher premium on nonmonetary reward
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 07:54 PM
Apr 2012
, and go to college to get these jobs. Men on the other hand put a higher premium on money, and are more likely to choose jobs which are more dangerous, difficult and are less rewarding in exchange for that higher pay.


Oh come on, lumberjack...you have such an obvious chip on your shoulder, always needing to prove that men are bigger victims than women.

Maybe you've been victimized in your life by women. It seems so, and you have our sympathy.
Still, One bad woman doesn't make your tarring of all women and women's issues true.
Your playing with facts is getting tiresome.

Here is a truckload of references rebutting your claims, but based on your behavior over the time I've seen you, my guess is that you'll ignore it all.


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/fact-check-obama-and-equal-pay-for-women/
In 2010, the most recent data available, women on average earned 77.4 cents for every dollar earned by men holding the same full-time, year-round job, according to Census data analyzed by the National Committee on Pay Equity.
The gap was virtually unchanged from 2009, when it was 77 percent and 2008 when it stood at 77.1 percent, before the law was enacted.
Pay inequity remains most pronounced among women of color. African-American women made 67.7 percent of what was earned by men in 2010, according to the Census, while Hispanic women earned 58.7 percent, both figures largely unchanged from the year before.



Unpaid work is largely done by
women:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_workforceAlthough access to paying occupations (the "workforce&quot has been and remains unequal in many occupations and places around the world, scholars sometimes distinguish between "work" and "paying work," including in their analysis a broader spectrum of labor such as uncompensated household work, childcare, eldercare, and family subsistence farming.


http://www.now.org/issues/economic/factsheet.html <----much more information at link
+Women's median pay was less than men's in each and every one of the 20 industries and 25 occupation groups surveyed by the U.S. Census Bureau in 2007.3 Even men working in female-dominated occupations tend to earn more than women working in those same occupations.4
+A study by the American Association of University Women (AAUW) examined how the wage gap affects college graduates. Wage disparities kick in shortly after college graduation, when women and men should, absent discrimination, be on a level playing field. One year after graduating college, women are paid on average only 80 percent of their male counterparts' wages, and during the next 10 years, women's wages fall even further behind, dropping to only 69 percent of men's earnings ten years after college. According to the AAUW report, even after "[c]ontrolling for hours, occupation, parenthood, and other factors normally associated with pay, college-educated women still earn less than their male peers earn. . . . A large portion of the
gender pay gap is not explained by women's choices or characteristics." 7


http://www.thenation.com/article/166468/one-mancession-later-are-women-really-victors-new-economy <----much more information at link
...But anyone who declares that women have “won” the new economy is premature at best. Women may be over-represented in growing sectors, but those jobs pay poorly, offer few benefits, come with grudging work and provide little opportunity for advancement. The edge on wages experienced by young women evaporates as they progress in their careers. When women do get to middle management, they’re paid less than men and they struggle to advance much further up the ladder. And women with children are left far behind.

So what happened to the “mancession” once the recovery officially began in June 2009? Women’s unemployment has continued to rise as men have gained their jobs back. Women gained less than 8 percent of the 1.9 million jobs added, and now men’s and women’s unemployment rates have converged at 7.7 percent. Public sector layoffs have hit women particularly hard. Across the country, women have lost 414,000 government jobs, many due to teacher layoffs. As of October, 300,000 educator jobs had been lost, accounting for over half of those lost at the local government level.

Women have been losing ground across private-sector industries too. Secretaries and administrative assistants, both female-dominated positions, have been laid off in droves. As employers ask their workers to do more work for the same or less pay in tough times, secretaries have become disposable. Women had lost 925,000 of these jobs as of July, but men had gained 204,000.

But women were stuck in disposable, low-income jobs long before the recession. One of the trends that got Rosin excited is that women dominate many of the industries projected to grow over the next decade, including retail sales and healthcare. It’s true that women disproportionately hold retail sales, home health and personal care jobs, all of which are set to see the most growth. But these jobs not only pay poorly and have few benefits; they are also unstable and are poorly protected by labor laws or unionization.


http://collegetimes.us/10-surprising-statistics-on-women-in-the-workplace/ <----much more at link
3. The more education a woman has, the greater the disparity in her wages. This certainly doesn’t mean women should shy away from professional positions, but they should be aware that they may have to battle harder for equal pay. Women in professional specialty occupations were found to earn just 72.7% of what men in the same position earned, and women in upper level executive, administrative and managerial occupations earned even less at 72.3%. If you compare this against the average of 77.5%, the numbers speak for themselves, and this graphic from the New York Times makes it even easier to see.

4. Women may work longer to receive the promotions that provide access to higher pay. One example provided by the National Center for Education Statistics shows that women often have to work three years longer in a teaching position to be promoted to a principal than their male counterparts. Some studies suggest that this is because women and men adapt different strategies when it comes to management and pursuing promotions, yet other studies connect it less to work and more to gender-based biases.


http://www.theglasshammer.com/news/2010/12/21/why-do-working-moms-make-less/
....according to the Cornell study Getting a Job: Is There a Motherhood Penalty, working mothers aren’t just getting paid less; they’re also being perceived differently. The study’s experiments found that mothers were penalized on a host of measures, including perceived competence and recommended starting salary.

Men were not penalized for, and sometimes benefited from, being a parent. The study actually showed that employers discriminate against mothers, but not against fathers. According to Robert Drago, Research Director at the Institute for Women’s Policy Research, these differences are a reflection of an even bigger problem.
 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
51. One at a time.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 10:17 PM
Apr 2012

Last edited Wed Apr 18, 2012, 10:50 AM - Edit history (1)

The first link...

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/fact-check-obama-and-equal-pay-for-women/
In 2010, the most recent data available, women on average earned 77.4 cents for every dollar earned by men holding the same full-time, year-round job, according to Census data analyzed by the National Committee on Pay Equity.

... is a lie.

77% does not measure "the same full-time, year-round job". It measures women's wages in total, against men's wages in total, without correcting for careers, time in service, overtime hours. Nor does it correct for people unemployed or disabled. In this study methodology, a population of three unemployed guys, four disabled guys, two men in prison, one $40,000 ironworker with 20 years on the job who works 40 hours a month of overtime and one $30,000 florist is used to "prove" a pay gap of 25%.

The second link...
http://www.now.org/issues/economic/factsheet.html <----much more information at link
+Women's median pay was less than men's in each and every one of the 20 industries and 25 occupation groups surveyed by the U.S. Census Bureau in 2007.3 Even men working in female-dominated occupations tend to earn more than women working in those same occupations.4
+A study by the American Association of University Women (AAUW) examined how the wage gap affects college graduates. Wage disparities kick in shortly after college graduation, when women and men should, absent discrimination, be on a level playing field. One year after graduating college, women are paid on average only 80 percent of their male counterparts' wages, and during the next 10 years, women's wages fall even further behind, dropping to only 69 percent of men's earnings ten years after college. According to the AAUW report, even after "ontrolling for hours, occupation, parenthood, and other factors normally associated with pay, college-educated women still earn less than their male peers earn. . . . A large portion of the
gender pay gap is not explained by women's choices or characteristics."


... would have been great if it had included AAUW's actual finding. Five percent is the actual pay gap after taking out the causative factors that the American Association of University Women deemed attributable to women's choices in 2007. Notice that they haven't repeated this study? See page 18, if you don't believe me.

http://www.aauw.org/learn/research/upload/behindPayGap.pdf

(by the way, there are a number of jobs in which women earn more than men.

The third link is similarly misleading, men still represent the lion's share of the unemployed.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t02.htm

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
81. "holding the same full-time, year-round job" is a misrepresentation, intentional or otherwise.
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 02:53 AM
Apr 2012

Here's what the National Committee on Pay Equity found, and it's nothing to do with "the same job," just a repetition of what the Census found: Women working full time year round make less than men working full time year round. No one compared them job for job.

The wage gap remained statistically unchanged in the last year. Women's earnings were 77.4 percent of men's in 2010, compared to 77.0 percent in 2009, according to Census statistics released September 13, 2011 based on the median earnings of all full-time, year-round workers. Both men's and women's earnings showed slight increases from 2009 to 2010 with men's at $47,715 and women's at $36,931, a difference of $10,784. Fifty years ago women earned 61 percent of what men earned, a Census official noted in releasing the data.

http://www.pay-equity.org/

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
84. yes, thank you!
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 08:08 AM
Apr 2012


Women deliberately choose jobs that pay crap, out of the love in our hearts, while men understand the value of a dollar and hard work, as someone here is trying to claim........ YEESH!!

Two friends of mine are health care workers...one a nurse, the other a home health-care worker. The physical work they have to do, a too-heavy patient load and SHIT PAY drives me up a wall. It's NOT RIGHT!!

It realllly drives me up a wall to read remarks from DUers like that, blaming women and consistently trying to paint men as the wronged party. He also fails to recognize that when a field changes from a male work-force to a female work-force, the pay drops, and men in female-dominated jobs make more than their female coworkers. Female college graduates in careers are promoted less often and for lesser pay increases than their male colleagues. Secretaries used to be male. Telephone operators used to be male. Clerks --clerical workers-- used to be male. Then, in the 19th century, managers realized they could hire droves of women and pay them less for the same work. Voila: pink collar workers.


Here's a snip and link from a specific field, published in a professional e-journal you might find interesting. I thought it was pretty interesting, anyway--especially coming from professionals in a specific field.

http://respiratory-care-sleep-medicine.advanceweb.com/Salary-Information/Salary-Survey/Gender-Gap-Still-Exists.aspx
SALARY SURVEY RESULTS
Gender Gap Still Exists
Ten years ago, male respiratory therapists and sleep professionals outnumbered females by two to one. But the field is no longer a boy's club of medicine. Sixty percent of the profession are women, and an equal percentage of managerial roles are held by females.

But on one measure, women continue to fall short - salary. And the difference is not just a women's issue. "Traditionally, when positions become female-dominated, they become less attractive to men, and the salary goes down," said Page S. Morahan, PhD.

On average, women in the cardiopulmonary field make 87 cents for every dollar men make, according to results from the ADVANCE 2010 Salary Survey. Their hourly wage, $27.69, is almost $10 short of their male colleagues.

"I cannot believe that," said Dawn Short, RRT, of Sheldon, Ill., when she learned of the wage difference. "In this particular job, I thought it would be really equal."

Groups like the Executive Leadership in Academic Medicine Program (ELAM) for Women work to counter that assumption. ELAM for Women strives to promote females to management roles in equal numbers as men.
 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
93. I agree that nurses aides are underpaid for what they do. That said, they *did* chose to do it.
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 04:35 PM
Apr 2012

As for respiratory therapist salaries, if the field was dominated by men 10 years ago, the lower aggregate pay for women can be explained as an artifact -- men in the field, on average, have more seniority & experience = higher pay.

A field doesn't automatically become "less attractive to men" just because there are a lot of women in it, nor does it automatically become a low-wage ghetto just because a lot of women are in it.

Median wage for respiratory therapists ($26/hr) = lower than median for nurses ($31/hr), with entry requirements about equivalent.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
21. I didn't say anything like that. They *do* need to feed families, and half of them do it on abysmal
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 05:23 PM
Apr 2012

wages which barely keep a single person decently housed and fed, let alone a family.

Those low low wages aren't a product of male-female disparities, but a product of class disparities.

undeterred

(34,658 posts)
31. Both kinds of disparities exist.
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 07:42 PM
Apr 2012

I can find lots of men doing the exact same IT job I am doing and being paid more for it because they have penises.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
57. The disparity between the bottom 20% and the top 20% is larger and has larger ramifications for
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 10:40 PM
Apr 2012

more people and for society as a whole.

I'm a woman, btw. And if those men are doing the exact same IT job as you, with the same years of experience etc, you have grounds for a lawsuit.

But those at the bottom of the economic heap don't.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
75. The problem being
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 01:30 AM
Apr 2012

that many companies take advantage of the situation.

For instance, they hire a woman and call her a 'coordinator'. Then they hire a guy and call him 'supervisor'. Even though *technically* they are fairly equal in what they do, the guy gets a higher salary and it's perfectly legal because he has a 'different title' and maybe does one or two things differently.

Now, here is why this is also bad for guys and why pay equity benefits both sexes...

So the aforementioned company decides they need a new hire. Are they going to hire a man or a woman do you think? Salaries expense is usually one of the biggest expenses a company can have, so they are going to hire the woman so their net income looks better.

Another way companies get away with this shit - they make discussing salaries grounds for termination. No one knows they are being screwed.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
78. Yes, they're going to hire the woman, but it could just as easily be an h1b male or anyone else
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 02:16 AM
Apr 2012

who's willing to work for less -- including a man. And often *is,* for example, in the auto industry, where young men and women in the "second tier" work for half of what their fathers and mothers did.

I ask you, other individuals taking it to court when they notice that supervisor X (male) is doing the same work as coordinator Y (female), how do you challenge such practices as in your example on the basis of "gender equity"? Since the employer is deliberately doing it covertly -- and *not* to "discriminate against women" as a class, but to drive down *men's* wages?

It's not about gender, it's about capital as a class grinding and whipsawing *all* of labor with all the weapons in their toolbox.

Any variety of worker will do as well as the "scab," so long as they'll work for less. Why is the woman taking that coordinator's job for that low pay? How is the man taking the supervisor's position doing anything different than she is? He doesn't make the rules of employment, he doesn't set the pay scale, and since the woman has demonstrated she's willing to undercut his wages, she is more his "enemy" than he is hers -- when the situation is analysed in gendered terms.

So long as we keep focusing on our own little interest groups, so long as we're still pretending it's 1950, labor will continue being ground into the dirt.

Where are all the feminists as teachers (predominately women) are fired at will and have their benefits stripped? Some of them are cheering -- I've seen it here at DU.

What is whipsawing in labor relations?

It is playing one labor group against the other. Basically, management saying to Labor Group A, "Labor Group B will do it for less money, so you must take a pay cut or else I will shift the work to them."


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_whipsawing_in_labor_relations

But typically, management doesn't tell labor what they're doing. They just do it & if it becomes obvious they make up some justification.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
88. mkay.
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 10:54 AM
Apr 2012

I'm not going to go over individual points because I think you are missing my point here (I don't think asking for equal pay is whipsawing), but I will say, yes there's a bigger picture here, but how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. There are HUGE class issues rearing their ugly head right now. It's all based on a crumbling economic system that is based on perpetual growth that is no longer sustainable on a finite planet. The whole system needs a huge overhaul, but I can't see it happening in my lifetime unless a giant catastrophe happens and humans simply have no choice but to change. It's like it's the last second before the Titanic hits the iceberg, but we haven't even stopped the engine yet.

varelse

(4,062 posts)
48. I recently finished reading "Women Don't Ask"
Tue Apr 17, 2012, 09:54 PM
Apr 2012

There are some cultural and behavioural patterns which tend to hold us back in the workplace (and actually at home and in relationships as well). The book does a good job of covering these issues and suggesting solutions not only for women, but for employers.


Women Don't Ask: Negotiation and the Gender Divide

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
76. Now that I read the entire article, I see how duplicitous it is. While trumpeting the lifetime
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 01:31 AM
Apr 2012

earnings loss due to the "77% gap" factor, they admit that all but 9% of gap is explicable:

9. More than 40 percent of the wage gap cannot be explained by occupation, work experience, race, or union membership. More than one-quarter of the wage gap is due to the different jobs that men and women hold, and about 10 percent is due to the fact that women are more likely to leave the workforce to provide unpaid care to family members. But even when controlling for gender and racial differences, 41 percent is “unexplainable by measureable factors.” Even if women and men have the same background, the wage gap still exists, highlighting the fact that part of the discrepancy can be attributed to gender-based pay discrimination.



The gap = 23% or we can say $23 out of $100. Sixty percent of it is explicable by occupation, work experience, etc.

That leaves 40%. 40% of $23 = $9 out of $100 or 9%.

The authors say the exact same thing as posters on this thread have been saying, they just say it in a less straightforward way.

The actual "wage gap" that's inexplicable by other factors is less than 10%, and the $430,000 lifetime earnings gap is pretty much bogus.

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
91. Nobody in the thread is denying a wage gap
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 04:21 PM
Apr 2012

It's that the 23% wage gap is bogus because it doesn't account for various factors, ususally personal choice, that account for much of the wage gap. A couple of studies pointed out earlier in the thread put the unexplained wage gap at 5-10%. That 5-10% is an issue that needs to be addressed, but it is a far cry from 23% number that is constantly and mistakenly bandied about.

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