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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTo all the right-wing anti-Purgies
Last edited Sat Nov 8, 2014, 09:43 PM - Edit history (2)
We have a problem.
For 20 years, y'all have exchanged favors to Wall Street for cash to you, to your families, and to fabulous war chests used to destroy any politicians that hold traditional Democratic values.
That's worked out great for your bank accounts and those of your relatives, and America's wealthy have never done better. But it ain't all rosy: for typical Americans, by-and-large, it's been a catastrophe. Utter disaster. Record numbers of homeless children, that sort of thing. (Fortunately for you, the police state you've created keeps the unsightly urchins from view as you walk from your limo to your fabulous dinner parties, but they're out there, cold and hungry.)
Now things have finally gotten so bad that even the base that you keep mooning and screaming "who the #%^* else ya gonna vote for, schmucks?" at has finally said "not you!".
You suck, and you're destroying our country.
So perhaps you can understand why people want you to go away. If we FDR Democrats (i.e., those of us with "#%^*ing retarded" ideas) do finally get our act together and reconstitute the party of working families, you're certainly welcome to vote for us. But do stay the hell away from the levers of government: you people have wrought, and/or been complicit in, enough destruction to last a century.
Go the #%^* away.
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LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 11, 2014, 06:21 AM - Edit history (1)
And anyone who thinks Hillary isn't part of the right wing machine is deluding themselves.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)had to sneak that one in considerign Hillary IS precisely the person who wants to empower the people manny spoke about, right?
2banon
(7,321 posts)you said:
I believe you meant to say :
"And anyone who thinks Hillary isn't part of the right wing machine is deluding themselves"
Since, after all she IS definitely part of the "right wing machine" of the DLC/THIRD WAY backed by the 1% (as in the Rothschild s milieu)
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)on what your definition of "is" is?
Couldn't resist.
2banon
(7,321 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Hillary is definitely in the Bush Circle.
2banon
(7,321 posts)I make those kinds of typos all the time, it's the little ones that totally changes the intended message! 
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)An honorary member of the Bush family...might as well be a Nazi sympathizer.
2banon
(7,321 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Its Jeb vs Hillary in 2016. Ive been saying it since 2008 but too many overly moderate non-fighters disparage the idea because they simply haven't looked underneath the hood or seen firsthand the suffering these criminals cause. They are blinded by personality, pomp and circumstance. Fools really. Its hard to put up with their naiveté after what Ive experienced first hand but instead of offending their delicate sensibilities I try to just speak my truth. Im sure some of them directly benefit from a Hillary nomination and Im sure some are just deluded benefactors of 1% ideology. I like Liz Warren because yes I agree with her and admire her courage but it does help too that she also happens to be a woman since many people will vote for symbolism only. That didn't get us far last time. We needed a Russ Feingold, Paul Wellstone type but maybe Obama was threatened after he won the election. I believe a deal was made months before when he agreed to flip-flop on filibustering the Telecom Immunity Act and then actually even voted for it. It all reminds me of J Edgar Hoovers files on all the politicians and the honey pots and pedophilic entrapment he used to blackmail thousands of them over the years...a little NSA tech has probably made the situation exponentially worse. Maybe Obama had an affair...maybe a shady business deal...maybe an encounter with drugs that was photographed when he was younger...who knows...but dismissing the idea just makes one look like a close-minded idiot.
2banon
(7,321 posts)That's when I want to think of him as something other than a lying con artist. then I'm reminded that he always said he wasn't a liberal.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)We need to give people something to vote for.
RadicalGeek
(344 posts)Warren, Sanders, etc.
But they need boots on the ground and folks to put money in the bank--alas
bravenak
(34,648 posts)But I miss Barney Frank. He was funny as hell. Too bad he retired, but maybe we can get Warren/Sanders to team up.
RadicalGeek
(344 posts)and honest!
But he could be a bit hard to understand.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)Sorry I'm late, lol.
I'm a big fan of your writing. You have a generation of progressives hanging on your every word. How would you suggest turning the tide against the corporate fascist lackeys? You write about how horrible they are. But you never offer advice on how overcome them.
Thanks in advance!
PS - I'm rec'ing your post. I like to see posts like yours on the front page. It make you seem like spokesman for the left.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)That is not Third Way Manny. This OP is written by the Manny who makes sense.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)Regardless, he never offers a solution.
rab·ble-rous·er
noun
a person who speaks with the intention of inflaming the emotions of a crowd of people, typically for political reasons.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)I can play that game too.
The thing is that there are people who have different talents. Rabble-rousers serve a purpose in getting people invested in an idea. There are other people who are the idea people, and they can serve a purpose too. But idea people will get little traction without the rabble-rousers.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)From what I have seen of your posts your definition of "solution" is a moving target as I've never seen you actually acknowledge anything has offered without ending the convo on a smug, self-satisfactory note. The fact you don't argue in good faith would probably be a huge deterrent for all but the most masochistic.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)And I have the misfortune of reading yours too. My argument stands.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)Charlatans.
Autumn
(45,082 posts)Manny is a Democrat a damn good Democrat who uses humor to point out the BS of the centrist third way democrats.
Feral Child
(2,086 posts)Have you got anything but criticism?
Tell us how to solve the problem, because it sure as fuck needs to be addressed.
Rex
(65,616 posts)that particular question. Kinda strange imo.
Feral Child
(2,086 posts)Stinks of agenda.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)was for the Democratic party to keep shifting to the right to 'capture more conservative voters" to make up for those it is alienating on the left. I shit you not.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)there are quite few die-hard muddlers who believe attracting republicons is the way for the democratic party to survive. unfortunately, the leadership agrees with them.
Feral Child
(2,086 posts)
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)like the rest of us. Which is why so many people agree with him.
Where did THAT come from, 'leader'? He's a Democrat who is merely putting into words what so many Dems are thinking.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I have to agree.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Try googling "FDR".
You know, the Loony Lefty who was elected for LIFE.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Quit electing third-way corporate whores. Recruit populist candidates and people will vote for them. Manny and others have offered up miles and miles of suggestions but since it doesn't include blind support for anything with a "D" next to their name it doesn't resonate. In fact, all I've ever seen from you is snark. Tell me, how exactly does that help?
lob1
(3,820 posts)
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Congressional Progressive Caucus uses their numbers to hold the Democratic Party hostage as the Tea Party does for the Republicans?
Concur or Refute? Or do you just want to throw more rocks?
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)So your fight now is with the Congressional Progressive Caucus. They have to be convinced to do that. Good luck!
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)I mean, it will never happen. It would take to much effort and mobilizing. It's far easier to throw rocks at the tattered remnants of the DLC.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)with their progressive agenda as a goal. It may hurt for a while but the party will get the idea and at least throw them a bone now and then. It's already being done by the tea party and it works, but then I think the Republican party wants it to work. They just use the tea party as someone to blame because most of their policies are not popular.
It's probably a non-issue anyway with the Republicans in control of both houses but something to think about in the future to help steer the majority or a President toward a more liberal agenda.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)The Progressive Caucus could totally hold people's feet to the fire, but they have no electoral incentive to do so.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Just saying.
Keep the shit here stirred up is easy, offering any kind of real solutions is not. Funny how some here love to post things like "purging" the party, yet they never are able to say who they will replace the party with. I guess it would be everyone who "thinks" like they do, but then again that would be a fairly small party.
I think some here just love to see the recs they get from their loyal followers. Kind of like when a certain poster called the president a used care salesman piece of shit, and got hundreds of recs for doing. Makes one wonder just what kind of agenda they really have here on DU.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Wayer" or DLC or whatever they call it these days...
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)My solution to start all over again. Voters are doing this now by focusing on Local Elections. Eg, while elected Dems lost this time, Progressive Issues WON wherever voters found them on Local Ballots. That wipes out the claim that Progressive policies are not what the people want.
I think this is very exciting. We've been focusing on DC for the past decade where it is clear the people are ignored. But locally, they have power and they exercised in this election.
Aside from the Issues, beginning the process of rebuilding our Party locally, finding people who care about the issues people care about, which DC has demonstrated, they do not.
It will take time, it took the Third Way a couple of decades to accomplish their goals. But across the country people are now taking care of THEMSELVES. DC is a Corporate Bubble, run by billionaires who are out of touch, who actually appear to have nothing but disdain and disrespect for the Working Class, the elderly, the poor, the PEOPLE iow.
The people are ignored in DC, but definitely not locally.
I believe Manny knows what needs to be done. How about you?
moonbeam23
(312 posts)see...simple solution...easy peasey...now was that so hard?
Overturn Citizens United...the public is on our side...everybody except true baggers think corporations aren't people!
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)Wave a magic wand? Sprinkle Pixie Dust? You don't just wake up in the morning and say "Overturn Citizens United" and it happens.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)volunteer, make phone calls, talk to your state legislators.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... for an Amendment to get rid of Citizen's United. If so, I'm just adding it here so others can see it as they surf though:
http://www.MoveToAmend.org
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Be specific. Whenever I respond to you, I feel like I'm dealing with rocket-propelled Jello goalposts.
How about you go first, and give us *your* solution, so I can understand the granularity you're asking for.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Good luck with that. I've watched them go from, "No such thing as third way - conspiracy" to "I have no idea what the third way is (but I will defend it like it is my child), I can't google anything from my phone" to "bad people want to purge the party so third way must be great like cheesecake" to "if you don't like it, then make your own party" of course that's not purging 
By next week who knows where they will pretend to be?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Calls me out, then runs off.
Jilted!
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)He should really change it again to the picture of his boss and intellectual love of his life.
the "Marshall" of the DLC old school boys like Wyld
Rex
(65,616 posts)with you, but I wouldn't bet money on it. Not one cent.
Autumn
(45,082 posts)
peacebird
(14,195 posts)She is a corporatist war hawk, and I am done voting for the lesser of two evils.
CrispyQ
(36,464 posts)I too, will not vote for HC. I've written to the DNC twice since the election to tell them that & I will continue to do so, for all the good it does. Money equals speech, so my speech is more of a whisper that can barely be heard, but I'll continue to whisper.
Autumn
(45,082 posts)I'm gonna fucking do it my way.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Toe the line...but don't call me on it. 
Autumn
(45,082 posts)
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)framing. The left has tried and true reliable Keynesian economics that has a provable track record of growth, recovery and infrastructure building. The right wing has vodoo trickle down Leo Straussian and the Chicago School of Economics philosophies and neo-liberal world trade policies that have a disastrous track record with the proven gluttonous and unsustainable transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the ultra rich.
Currently the Democratic Party works within and inhabits the framing that the Right Wing economic polities leaving the Party always on the defensive of a flawed argument.
If the party would stop allowing the RW to define the arguments, we have a chance to make headway. Until then, we are arguing on flawed ground against the masters of debating from a deceitful dangerous premise.
librechik
(30,674 posts)is nothing but an imaginary bubble that doesn't help anyone.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)For people who scream about entitlement in the youth, poor, and anyone brown or female they sure do act entitled to peoples votes without earning them.
A bunch of warped pseudo-aristocrats and their sycophants.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Any time people start thinking they are 'owed' votes, they've lost it.
Votes are either EARNED, or given away by those who simply want to be 'useful idiots'.
If your party is running low on 'useful idiots', it's time to actually start trying to earn votes again.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)
Too bad that the GOP doesn't have that problem, huh?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)But I suspect they'll have plenty for years to come.
2banon
(7,321 posts)gonna try 'n remember that one!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)roots frameworks and networks that worked to get him elected. The "new reality".
When we lost in 2010, right wingers blamed the liberals. "Ponies and rainbows".
Now we've lost by historic margins in 2014, once again the right wingers are blaming liberals. "Lazy liberals".
In the meantime, the DNC has been very busy defending our surveillance state, forgiving some of the worst criminal enterprises in history, apologizing for torture, and making sure fracking isn't encumbered by environmental oversight and continuing to defend shipping millions of good jobs to Asia to help the middle class in China and India.
Dear DNC,
We just aren't that into you.
Signed,
The Working Class
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Like, perhaps, the Communists over at Socialist Alternative.
Signed,
The American Proletariat.
TBF
(32,060 posts)to vote for in Texas. This midterm I was able to choose a bunch of greens especially in local races. They didn't win but at least it was a new option. I'm not going to be forced to choose between 2 parties that are flip sides of the same coin. I also will pursue other options.
randome
(34,845 posts)Until there is popular support of third-party candidates, they will remain footnotes on the political landscape.
Your protest votes do nothing but help you sleep at night. I assume.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is hockey Conservative values!"[/center][/font][hr]
BubbaFett
(361 posts)because they haven't sold out their neighbors, families, and communities by refusing to, at the very least, ENVISION something different that will help the working class.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]
TBF
(32,060 posts)do you understand the consequences of continuing this charade of two parties when no one is advocating for the economics of the working class? Some of us are still showing up and pulling the levers (or spinning and pushing buttons as we do in Texas) - but we are doing so purely because we are pro-choice, gay, etc. You've lost us on economics. You've sold out.
How do you think this will come out in the end?
TBF
(32,060 posts)think about it this way. You need to keep up the impression that voting matters or you will have 0% turnout. You're down to 36% turnout right now. What do you think happens when we get to 0%?
See you in the streets.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Their job is to support Conservative Democrats. The Ruling Oligarchs (The Carlyle Group) prefers the Republicans but will settle for Conservative Democrats like H. Clinton-Sachs.
Support progressive Democratic candidates via organizations OUTSIDE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
moonbeam23
(312 posts)Excellent...will have to steal...thanks
2banon
(7,321 posts)I didn't know this about the Clinton's.. somehow i missed this very significant person of interest:
Lynn Forester, Lady de Rothschild
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Lynn Forester de Rothschild was introduced to Sir Evelyn de Rothschild by Henry Kissinger at the 1998 Bilderberg Group conference in Scotland,[8] and they married on November 30, 2000 in London, England, after Rothschild (almost 23 years older than Forester) had left his wife and three children.[1] She is his third wife.[1] On the announcement of the marriage, the de Rothschild couple were invited to spend their honeymoon at the White House.[9] The couple splits their time between New York and London. In response to a reporter's question about her wealth, Forester said, “Is that said about me? I hope not. I mean, I’m just who I am. I don’t think being rich is that important. I think not being boring is really important.”
Politics
Lynn Forester de Rothschild was a major fund raiser for Hillary Rodham Clinton's 2008 Presidential bid and has received attention for endorsing John McCain for President. On June 22, 2011, she hosted a fundraiser for Jon Huntsman, Jr.'s presidential campaign.[10]
From 1993–1995, she served on President Bill Clinton's National Information Infrastructure Advisory Council. From 1998-2000, Lynn Forester de Rothschild served on the US Secretary of Energy’s Advisory Committee.
2banon
(7,321 posts)What is the proper term for a long standing "Conspiracy Theory" proven to be a Fact and no longer a Theory?
moonbeam23
(312 posts) Rex
(65,616 posts)Since someone thinks they can copy me...I guess I should be flattered.
Duval
(4,280 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts) Teamster Jeff
(1,598 posts)RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)
pa28
(6,145 posts)They can work for the public and champion traditional Democratic values like Jeff Merkley and keep their seats.
Alternately they can stay in the service of banks and corporations searching for the magical third way and lose their seats.
I think we'll see fewer and fewer politicians chasing failed third way ideas as the conventional wisdom changes.
appalachiablue
(41,131 posts)lob1
(3,820 posts)
libodem
(19,288 posts)It might help us with the image makeover, that needs to appeal to the "WhiteMaleSystem", which comprises all of our major institutions.
I think Democrats maybe gaining women and minorities but not courting, 'RealMen'.
Just thinking this way after serving on a jury wanting to hide a posters' comments concerning running off white men from the party. The sentiments are the stuff I'd hide out of principle. But If we stick our head in the sand because it's ignorant are we missing a lesson?
Is there a lesson in this last election?
Signed,
Brainstorming
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Because they aren't going to give it up willingly. Who is up for it?
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And it would be just making their power irrelevant?
Don't ask me for a plan because I suck at planing...but escape from our corrupt world should always be an option.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)The 2014 result was very similar to the 2010 result but in different states. Nothing changed then and nothing will change now. 2016 will be much better turnout.
randome
(34,845 posts)Another directionless movement with a hundred captains, none of whom could agree on what to do. So you want people to go away so you'll have an easier time of it? Probably not going to work.
See my sig line? How do you inspire other than to say things today are wrong?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)That it was critical for police to brutally assault them, and, IIRC, only one or two sittlng national politicians decried the assaults.
randome
(34,845 posts)You want to imagine yourself as part of a vast movement that affects real change. Well, it hasn't worked out so well so far, has it?
And if you think anyone here condones police brutality, you're crazy. But you know what is even stranger? That you claim a few busted heads put a stop to people dedicated to changing the system.
Not much in the way of dedication from where I sit. Of course I'm only a single parent with two daughters getting well paid but still living from paycheck to paycheck because of an emotionally unstable ex-wife.
What would I know about wanting to change the system?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
Rex
(65,616 posts) randome
(34,845 posts)Here is my Cory Booker story for the day. I'm at the Red Cross to donate platelets. On the way in I notice a car with its lights on and the engine running. It's a cold morning so I think someone is warming up the car. But it's 7 in the morning and not many people about and the car doesn't belong to either of the Red Cross nurses.
I finish the usual questionnaire, look out the window and that car is still there. I decide to take a closer look to see if someone is passed out. There is and she doesn't respond to my beating on the window and the door is locked. I call out to the nurses to call 911.
Of course then she wakes up, but uncommunicative and keeps shaking her head no. The car is filled with clothes so I'm betting she's homeless. But a minute later she drives off so the 911 call didn't help.
Do you cacklers and jeerers really think I'm 'threatened' by OWS or that I don't want the system to change?
Get over yourselves.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I guess you've pretty well shut down anyone who thinks you don't want change.
Well played.
randome
(34,845 posts)Do you think I shouldn't have bothered? That's the sort of "status quo" person you apparently think I am.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The night is always young. It's never too late.[/center][/font][hr]
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)in Boston. About 15 years ago.
I forget the details, but Mitt Romney happened to walk by, saw her plight, and spent ten minutes helping her out to get the car started.
Mitt #%^*ing Romney.
The urge to help people in obvious distress is nearly universal.
That said, I commend you for taking the time to try to help that poor woman, many others would not have. However I wouldn't call you a nitwit just because your effort didn't obviously change outcome. Conversely, I don't understand why you so viciously attack Occupy because it didn't obviously change outcome in your eyes.
In my eyes, incidentally, Occupy was a turning point: it framed the conversation as the 99% vs. the 1%, and that framing is essential to coalesce Americans to start the work of taking back our country.
randome
(34,845 posts)How do you square that article entitled 'A Eulogy For Occupy'? I suppose that's a vicious article in your eyes. Do you think it's nonsense or does it have the ring of truth about it?
And you're right, helping one person doesn't make me anything particularly special. And now, years later, we're still 'framing the conversation' and still 'starting the work'? When will the conversation be hung on the wall? When does the actual work begin?
Take your time. Occupy's been around for a while.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Told me my baby was a cutie pie!! Warm and friendly and asked me about my heating costs. I told her it was getting really high. She said she was working on a plan to realease funds to get us through the winter. She came through with 1200 for every citizen on their pfd. And she taxed the oil companies.
Marr
(20,317 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)You want a debate? Here I am. Come at me.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]
Rex
(65,616 posts)Seriously your act is stale and you have no intention of debating anything.
randome
(34,845 posts)But you're no doubt right. I fear organizations like OWS trying to help people because I want to be the one and true hero myself. 
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
Rex
(65,616 posts)and berate it constantly. Seriously I don't really care, you've shown how you feel and people are repulsed by it and it upsets you.
I understand, really I do.
randome
(34,845 posts)Perhaps that's what upsets you.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]
Rex
(65,616 posts)When you do something like help out thousands of homeless, because of Wall Street crime...let us know.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)horribly is that someone thought they were a threat. The Obama Admin assisted local police in cracking heads. If you think that there aren't those here that relished the police brutality, then you are crazy. The hatred by some here is scary. OWS wants a better America and are willing to literally put their lives on the line and people like yourself, disparage them. And you and your friends will say you disparage them because they are ineffective. What? That's not the reason. You don't want the system to change.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Way to go, rhett o rick!
randome
(34,845 posts)In light of the above. Come on now, don't be shy.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The night is always young. It's never too late.[/center][/font][hr]
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)I don't see how that explains your loathing and long term ridicule for OWS or why it explains why you want the system to change.
Again, thank you for doing the right thing by trying to help someone in peril.
randome
(34,845 posts)It bothered me after I passed it over the first time. That doesn't sound like someone who thinks the 'system', as it is, should be maintained. It's not the reaction of someone who feels threatened by a group of well-intentioned (but ultimately ineffective) people who want that system to change and who similarly care about the homeless.
As for OWS, I don't loathe or ridicule it. I have pointed out how it failed. A sentiment shared by many, and yes, I call that unfortunate. http://www.wired.com/2012/12/a-eulogy-for-occupy/
Because the GA had no way to reject force, over time it fell to force. Proposals won by intimidation; bullies carried the day. What began as a way to let people reform and remake themselves had no mechanism for dealing with them when they didn’t. It had no way to deal with parasites and predators. It became a diseased process, pushing out the weak and quiet it had meant to enfranchise until it finally collapsed when nothing was left but predators trying to rip out each other’s throats.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is
Rex
(65,616 posts)is curious in the least.
randome
(34,845 posts)And OWS is dead in the water now, except for tiny ripples occuring in the realm of high finance.
Both those statements are true.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
Rex
(65,616 posts)It must burn you up that a populist movement is so successful. When you buy up 15 million dollars of toxic assets, let me know...until then, who are you again I forget?
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)desperate to minimize and ridicule from the beginning.
Just because a movement, whether it be small or vast, quiet or loud, that changes many lives doesn't evolve and develop within your framework or within your expectations, doesn't mean it hasn't had a profound impact on THOUSANDS of people.
Occupy Homes in Minneapolis (along with many other cities) stands up for people destroyed corrupt banks that foreclosed on people through dubious and illegal and un-prosecuted robo-signings as well as standing up for the homeless, Occupy Sandy provided much relief to the good people who were devastated by the hurricane, not to mention Rolling Jubilee - the current and ongoing effort to relieve people from predatory student loan debt AND medical debt. But to the dismissive chorus, it's dead in the water. It's never enough. Tell that to the people who have been transformed by discharged medical and or student debt, who have a place to live or received blankets, food and water in the aftermath of a national emergency.
It is baffling why anyone would try to tear down and/or minimize the noble effort who are trying to help others.
Thank goodness someone like Malala Yousafzai doesn't listen to the likes of those who would minimize just one girl trying to go to school.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)speak truth to power. When people like OWS, whistle-blowers, investigative journalists, Code Pink, etc. speak out for our freedoms and liberties, why do people disparage them so vehemently instead of ignoring them? Because they threaten the precious status quo? Why are they treated so brutally by the police and DOJ if they didn't threaten something?
Those that treasure the status quo like Conservative Democrats like H. Clinton that might change some social issues but is clearly in the pocket of Wall F'n Street. I don't think the middle class will survive 8 years of a Goldman-Sachs presidency.
randome
(34,845 posts)I don't want her as President. I will still vote for her if she is the nominee. As for the rest, without coordination or unity of purpose, all those people and organizations you mention will fail. They have already. OWS failed. Snowden failed. I don't think Code Pink has failed or has been disparaged, have they? Not by me.
My father is gay so I'm especially glad that marriage equality is becoming mainstream. I make a decent salary and I want my taxes to be higher to help those who need it more than I do. I voted against teacher/employment standards here in St. Louis and for a tax increase to repair the schools.
I am not 'threatened' by OWS or any other organization fighting for the same things I believe in.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)In the civil rights movement there were many many set backs. Same with women's suffrage. These set backs were not failures.
But why would someone disparage those doing the fighting?
randome
(34,845 posts)That article I linked to explains why it mostly failed. I say mostly because obviously helping to quell onerous debts is what is called a good thing.
This country needs real leaders. I've said before that we are ripe for demagoguery in this leadership vacuum. I'm surprised we haven't been overtaken by one yet.
Obama is a better leader than what the GOP has but he isn't enough. OWS made the effort but it wasn't enough. What's next? We're all still waiting.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)OWS got their heads cracked open for fighting for our freedoms and yet people despise them.
Rex
(65,616 posts)And of course when stuck in a corner, they give you this pathetic backstory about their life...as if anyone believes a word they say.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Which is what got them into trouble in the first place.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)And the rest of your post is similarly off.
Rex
(65,616 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)It's Greenwald's fault.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)You are 100% correct, Manny. The PTB had to silence Occupy.
Rex
(65,616 posts)It's so sad to watch denial like that.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)your comfortable status quo? Pres Obama isn't going to fight for the middle class and neither is H. Clinton-Sachs. So what are we to do? Sit back and disparage those that try to fight the Oligarchy?
In a war there are no "centrists". You have to pick a side. And we are at war. At war for our lives. American children are dying in poverty at the hands of the Oligarchy. It's not that they wish that, it's that they just don't care. OWS cares and you disparage them.
We are at war,...one that we did not declair... A war we are losing.
And our generals are looking to score the big bucks in the "private sector".
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Well said!
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)OWS made the PTB very nervous. And apparently they made you nervous too.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts) Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)and asked the poster which "centrist" activist organization is doing anything remotely like rolling jubilee. i expect crickets.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)
Zorra
(27,670 posts)
It's obvious in every thread how much energy they suck out of discussion. Every. damn. thread. that even hints at criticism. So then arguing becomes the thing. I totally understand why, because often the statement is so infuriating and mind boggling. But I have noticed that it usually happens early and is one poster (of a possible tag team) who will do the disrupting and hang on until the point of the OP has been lost in the scuffle. What if people tried the Gandhi method and did not engage? It works with those who seek negative attention, but it takes strength and discipline to ignore them.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I imagine we often call those simple things which we are unable to understand "senseless" to avoid the realization we are simply unable (or unwilling) to to personally understand them, and better maintain the our bumper-sticker philosophies, defined by others for our convenience.
One may maintain the pretense it's even inspirational to do so.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)bashing Occupy while promoting all things NSA and DLC.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)this is inspiring...and it makes sense. which "centrist" movement is doing this?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/12/occupy-wall-street-activists-15m-personal-debt
Rex
(65,616 posts)these particular posters scream for the Left to get up and do something from their keyboards. The Left got up and did something and all they can do is cry about it like it is a BAD THING.
Gosh...who else hates populism...I forget.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)
is wrong with these people?!Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)If I was an employee of the Wall Street bandits I wouldn't want to hear it either.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)It just doesn't seem to happen. I don't even see them on my ballots.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Hopefully our current party leadership will go away without a huge fight.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)and so much so that they call those they supplanted ________ for not cooperating in their quest for more corporatism.
I wonder how many of them are also whiners about the corruptive influence of money in our politics?
Isn't there something a bit incongruent/inconsistent about that and more? It's really no small wonder that the CONtortionists are also such profuse distortionists.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)We got trouble... right here in River City. What they did 25 years ago was disingenuous, and I believe they should leave through the same door they came in.
Has anyone seen an article over on Politico.com (10-10-2014) by a Will Marshall, Pres of the PPI (Progressive Policy Institute?) If not, google this word for word:
How To Save the Democratic Party from Itself Will Marshall
Yes, it's a long one, but read it all, right to the end. I find the PPI very unprogressive.
hedda_foil
(16,373 posts)And, of course, H. Clinton Sachs is a former president of the DLC. But hey, that's politics.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Teddy Roosevelt. FDR, JFK, Etc... Are Soooo Yesterday...
We HAVE to reinvent the wheel that worked for so long, because the paradigm had changed.
NOW... we have to make sure our OverLords are protected and Increasingly Wealthy...
That way we get to eek out a meager living, while those left behind are left to their own devices.
That's the way god and Wall Street wants it.
There is no corruption... only the unwillingness to pull up your own boot-straps...
Get with the program, man... if YOU are doing alright, why bother with those who refuse to help themselves?
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)That sums up my feelings better than I could have myself
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Fuck the Republicans, even those with "D" behind their name.
gilpo
(708 posts)Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I'm curious as to the specifics.
Thanks!
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I'll have to check with my Florida friends and family, also.
Thus far, it looks like the un-brain-dead of the tea party (who perhaps never were depicted by all those misspelled sign holders) met the other part.
We're both seen as fringe to some, I suppose.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)… and the next step is to own up to it.
It sucks and it is destroying our country.
K&R
BKH70041
(961 posts)"Now things have finally gotten so bad that even the base that you keep mooning and screaming "who the #%^* else ya gonna vote for, schmucks?" at has finally said "not you!"."
Who are you trying to kid? If Hillary Clinton, or any other candidate you consider to be "third way," is the 2016 nominee, you'll vote for them.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)It's one hundred million or so others that may not give as much of a #%^* as I do.
BKH70041
(961 posts)They'll come around.
When you tell us we need to worry about you, then the threats of "100 million or so others" might hold some weight. But this "I'll walk the line, but I can't say the same about what others will do" attitude renders your whole point moot.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Huzzah.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Vote and Vomit then work the primaries the next go around trying to get those that do not inspire nausea. The average working poor person (or increasingly poorer "middle class" person) just see two sides of the same coin trying to empty their pockets to give what little they have to the extremely wealthy and say "fuck that, I will stay home and be screwed rather than vote for my assailant and still get screwed".
In a way, they use us as scapegoats chastising us for withholding our votes to teach the Dems a lesson when in truth we do vote and are simply trying to warn the party and other party members that they are destroying themselves by embracing Republicans in (D)rag.
We each have our reasons for holding our noses or our vomit once every two years, my own is simply to protect those that actually depend on the few social issues the fake Democrats still adhere to as their wealthy employers do not care much about them and allow them to offer as crumbs to the base.
Once the infiltrators go full right wing on the social issues my vote and vomit policy is at an end.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)"Who are you trying to kid? You'll vote for me."
So inspiring!
Rex
(65,616 posts)WE have to inspire our candidates to do their jobs. I thought they operated on gasoline or electricity. I was wrong, you must inspire them to function properly.
Who knew we were doing it wrong all these years?
peacebird
(14,195 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)
- Is going to be my band name when I'm a teenager again in my next life!!!
K&R
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)...control practically the entire industry, deny them the right of organization. The suppression of organization is effectively carried out by the discharge of all known to be union men or union sympathizers, by the use of spies who fraudulently secure the confidence of employees and report all known to be union members or sympathizers, by the use of an effective system of blacklisting, and by the control even of the personnel of the operators upon leased wires in the offices of brokers and other private individuals.
...
Mr. THOMPSON. In regard to the question of spies, what evidence, if any,
and if you care to state it, have you obtained?
Mr. FREY. Some of the men who were employed in that capacity, while not
having the grace to go and hang themselves after taking the 30 pieces of
silver, did have the grace to come and tell us all about it, and also give to
us a list of names of some of the others, and we tried now and then to weed
out some of those men that we were sure were spies.
...
64-TH CONGRESS \ ^FMATF (DOCUMENT 1st Session } SENATE j No> 415
INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS FINAL REPORT AND TESTIMONY
SUBMITTED TO CONGRESS BY THE COMMISSION ON INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS
CREATED BY THE ACT OF AUGUST 23, 1912
Here.
Things have changed so.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)what's the solution. More 'red bull'? You know, get more energy to get people off their lazy asses and vote. That's one of my solutions. Another one is a recreate our Party so that it truly reflects the people it supposedly represents with non money hungry politicians who seem to be bought off by the banks(kochs) and corporate special interests. I know, I know, impossible. But one can dream........
IronLionZion
(45,441 posts)Most reasonable people believe it should be done. The devil is in the details of how to get it done. Any ideas?
Good luck getting any more progressive judges confirmed through this congress, or even other important positions like heads of agencies or cabinet positions.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)he's here all week don't forget to try the veal!
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Let's take back the soul of the Democratic party, to hell with the 3rd Way and DLCers
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Hotler
(11,421 posts)
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts) 
mstinamotorcity2
(1,451 posts)You must work but congress doesn't and can draw a salary for hurting average Americans?? Don't want to give them a Living Wage?? How is it, that Americans can't have a Living Wage, but Congress can have an abundant salary on the backs of the taxpayers that they don't want to have one?? It is the only thing they Understand. Money. We should start taking ours back. They have all gotten extremely Wealthy while in Congress. Have you seen how rich some of them have gotten?? Issa, Shelby, Sessions, Pelosi?? get back with me in a month with 38 days in it!!! https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/reduce-senate-and-house-salaries-725-hour-minimum-wage/gqRklX6C
Kermitt Gribble
(1,855 posts)I've had enough of these stealth republicans and their cheerleaders here, who don't care about policy as long as their team gets a "win".
Yesterday, a DUer suggested we start a "Roosevelt Party" within the Democratic Party to steer the Party back to the left - I think that's a perfect name for it.
47of74
(18,470 posts)You put someone like me in the Oval Office and you'd have Boner and McFuckstick begging to surrender one week later. I'd show all these fuckers what "Chicago politics" actually looks like.
Feral Child
(2,086 posts)Tired of Republican rulers, especially those with a capitol "D" behind their names.
Rex
(65,616 posts) 
JohnnyRingo
(18,628 posts)You're trying to make a case for dividing and purging DU as usual. One barely has to read between the lines this time to see it.
You begin with a completely unfounded assumption that every democrat who lost an election did so because they weren't liberal enough. Working backward from that "fact", you call out everyone who doesn't subscribe to the Manny Goldberg Handbook For Democrats by calling them "right wing". Perhaps it would be helpful if you list every one of your ironclad tenets to which future democratic hopefuls have to adhere for the sake of fitting under your vision of the country's smallest political tent, so people like me will know when we're betraying our country.
My congressman, Ohio's 17th Tim Ryan (D-Niles) just won his seventh term (70%) Tuesday as a moderate Irish Catholic democrat. He's quietly pro 2nd amendment and loudly pro union. He may never wear a rainbow pin on the campaign trail, but I know for a fact he supports marriage equality. He has no logical reason to include it in his stump speech in this conservative working class district. On abortion, he vaguely refers to his Catholic faith as divine guidance, but has never spoken outwardly against it, let alone cast a single vote to restrict it (legal, safe, and rare).
I'll pass it on to him that he's on the Manny Goldberg purge list for replacement by a Dennis Kucinich clone. Maybe he'll hire you on next time as a campaign consultant, but I really doubt it. Still, your arrogant belief that you have your finger on the pulse of the American voter from coast to coast deserves credit just for it's incredible brazenness.
For the record, I'm considered by most as a liberal. I'm a union retired gun owning tolerant democrat who believes in sweeping social programs and a living wage, but if every candidate nationally vowed to fulfill my personal wish list of ideals, we'd have even fewer democrats in office. As Tip O'Neil once said: "All politics is local", and anyone who believes that one size fits all for the democratic party has chronic political myopia.
This past election resulted in more than a few losses for a myriad of reasons, and that can't be fixed by your bumper sticker solution.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)As long as he votes that way, it sounds like I'd be OK with him.
That's one of my very few litmus tests. I'd prefer that the entire country have sane gun laws like my own state of Massachusetts, but gun deaths have dropped a lot in the US over the past few decades.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Funny this paid shill has fooled so many here. I still remember third way manny and was quite surprised by the sudden tack to the hard left when I came back after a break from this place.
His mission is to divide it has always been so and if he isn't on a payroll I am aunt jemima.
It's amazing how some can be fooled by slick talking conmen. There seems to be several of them posting here, and they seem to be competing to see who can get the most recs, and it's always the followers who go from post to post recommending them, over, and over and over again to keep them on the front page.
Since last Tuesday it's been a mad house here with all the "purge" posts, blaming the president and the whole democratic party for the loss, and not seeming to understand that this almost always happens in midterms, and the if voters would have turned out it would have been a different story.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)LMAO!
Do you also think Colbert is a right-winger?
Andy823
(11,495 posts)I couldn't have said it better myself.
"You're trying to make a case for dividing and purging DU as usual. One barely has to read between the lines this time to see it."
Thanks for the post.
Rex
(65,616 posts) wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)Hey, let's list the the times in history people have been purged (not that 'progressives' have any power to purge anyone.)
I'll start: The term "purge" is often associated with the Stalinist and Maoist regimes. While leading the USSR, Joseph Stalin imprisoned and executed, i.e. purged, "wreckers", or citizens accused of plotting against communism.
Your turn.
Rex
(65,616 posts) wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)
We could discuss purging all day. Or, rather, I could. I doubt you have the historical wherewithall to keep up.
Rex
(65,616 posts)But that is about all you are good for, sorry.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)Of course, 'progressives' neither have the money, the organization, the support or the balls to pull it off. Mental masturbation. Delusions of grandeur. DU's 'progressives.'
Horrible terrible. Make it stop!
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)But maybe we shouldn't listen to jackasses who try to make progressive a pejorative term while advocating moving the party to the right to "capture more conservative voters" to replace those on the left you've alienated.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Funny that the people screaming at the highest volume for a purge of "third way", "blue dogs", & "moderate Dems" - basically anyone understands that we have to win elections before we can do anything - are the ones whining the most about authoritarians.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)would you be cool with it and support him?
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Doesn't seem to bother you one bit.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Noted.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)A rather myopic version of it, too.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I admit that's true.
Rex
(65,616 posts)To believe Warren is the same as Cruz. And we are supposed to listen to people that say that like they are serious?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Something new comes along to thrill and disgust.
Keeps it fresh, I suppose.
There's been fair number of Elizabeth Warren used to love seeing people die kinda stuff lately. Seems like someone's getting a little nervous.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)If you demand that Republican influence be removed from the Democratic party, you are an, 'authoritarian'.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)They just want to "fix" it so the party does what they tell the party to do. No pesky democracy getting in the way.
And to say that the leaders of the Democratic Party are just Republicans in sheep's clothing is nothing but PURE UNADULTERATED BULLSHIT!! If you don't understand there are fundamental differences between the two parties, then living in a fantasy world.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...then you don't understand that their are fundamental differences between the two parties. One party represents the left and the other party represents the right.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)is a right winger/Third Way. That's toxic sewage bullshit designed to sap support from Democrats.
You want to claim the mantle of representing the majority of the party? Try winning some elections first. Until then, you're just a RW dupe blowing smoke & doing the Republicans' work for them.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And your strawman.
I'm a "right wing dupe blowing smoke & doing the Republicans work for them" says the right wing Third Way® apologist.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)At least not all Democrats, right? That's doing the Republicans' work.
Ted Cruz thanks you for your support.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...it means you support Ted Cruz"
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Like most Democrats don't think authoritarian purges are acceptable political tactics, especially when it would marginalize the party & ultimately destroy it.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...sorry, nothing you say will ever change that.
There is no call for an 'authoritarian purge' you guys made that up.
You Third Way® apologists are desperate.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)You hate any Democrat that can actually win an election, and just need to look at the OP for proof of the RW authoritarian purge campaign against real Democrats.
You can twist it any way you want, it doesn't change the facts.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)The "Third Way®" and their supporters are Republicans, not Democrats.
There is nothing authoritarian about getting rid of bad politicians. You Third Way® apologists are ridiculously short sighted!
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Just because they realize that Democrats have to win elections before we can do anything doesn't make them so. Smearing them as "third way", "blue dogs", & "halfpublicans" is just an indication that you can't muster the ideological & political support for your extremism. The call for a purge proves that.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...in the Democratic party, while purging liberals and the left from the party. Keep rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic until you find success, good luck with that!!
I want the Third Way® influence gone and I will do everything in my power to get the halfpublican scumbags out of office. Nothing you can say will ever change my mind because I do not support right wing policies.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Shit like that is Sarah Palin-level stupidity.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)It is halfpublican Third Wayers that I have a problem with. But you already know that.
Good luck with your deck chair rearrangement mission! I'm sure you can dig up five or six people on DU who are willing to help you on your quest!!
baldguy
(36,649 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)i know that is not the case everywhere, but progressives DO win elections in some parts of the country.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)They believe Obama is to the right of Nixon, after all.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)so i take him at his word.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)But that's never stopped anti-Democrat shit like this from being spread.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)"But he didn't say it anyway, even if he did say it, he didn't!"
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)An astonishingly obtuse statement after your preferred conservadems just got destroyed in the mid-terms.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)Well put baldguy.
I have notice the same thing you do, that all those who want to "purge" the party or anyone who doesn't think like they do, are the ones throwing around the "authoritarian" label, yet as you pointed out, what they are doing themselves is the mark of an authoritarian way of thinking.
Trying to get rid of people in the party is not going to fix anything if those who end up running things have to have a purity test for all the candidates that they allow to run. The idea of "my way or the highway" sound more like tea party thinking that democratic thinking. I everyone had the "my way or the highway", attitude we would never get anything accomplished in D.C., only more gridlock than ever before.
We have all seen the damage done by the teapublicans when they "demand" a no compromise stand on anything they don't like. If member of both parties had that same attitude think how much worse it would be. Now I don't agree with everything the democratic party does, I do think that even the worst democrat is better than best republican in day of the week. Just because a member of confess does not vote the way I may like them to vote on a certain issue, does not mean they should be "purged".
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Makes you wonder just where they get all their bluster & bullshit.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...from those who have spent the last six years trying to purge the base (liberals and the left) from the Democratic party.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)"Progressives" brought it up. Examples of trying to purge the 'base' (misused term)?
baldguy
(36,649 posts)If they didn't misuse terms, they'd have nothing to say.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)"Emoprog", "Firebagger"?
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)So do you have a link or what?
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Show me *ONE* post on DU advocating a purge of liberals from the Democratic Party.
Mind you, not phoney "liberals" who hate successful center-left Democrats like Obama, Hillary, Kerry, Boxer, Feinstein, Schumer, etc etc etc.
Nobody is calling for a purge except those who want to defeat the Democratic Party.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)He'll ignore the request, change the topic then claim YOU moved the goal posts.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Your above 'disclaimer' is a confession.
"Just whatever my Third Way® masters narrowly define as 'liberal' from their right wing worldview"
baldguy
(36,649 posts)And are happy with a permanent Republican majority to whine about from the next couple generations - that way you don't have to do any actual work to bring about your claimed objectives. You don't want any actual advancement on progressive issues, you just want to have something to complain about - and so you need to disparage the real work done by actual progressives.
Nobody is calling for a purge except those who want to defeat the Democratic Party. Do you see why real liberal Democrats don't respect you?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Your views on 'liberalism' are cartoonish and right wing.
Your insistence that the left be marginalized in favor of a meaningless, empty, centrist no mans land has pretty much destroyed the Democratic party and the country.
Real liberals and actual progressives do not inhabit the middle because there is no middle.
Rex
(65,616 posts)You would think we found out the identity of deep throat!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts) are they sooooooooooooooooooooooooo afraid of? a party that actually stands for the people?! it is perplexing that some democrats are so hostile to liberal/progressive element when they are the people who actually vote FOR them.YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Indeed, during FDR’s first three years in office, his version of the New Deal faced more serious challenges from populists and insurgents on the left than from Republicans. Far from the bold, unyielding advocate fighting off conservative resistance, the FDR of the first New Deal was navigating between competing ideological camps, attempting to build a broad, all-class alliance. Indeed, FDR was always surrounded by teams of advisers with widely divergent views of the government’s role and he kept them—and the public—guessing about which side he was really on.
The most famous—and perhaps telling—example of FDR siding with the conservatives came in 1937 when he agreed that it was time to retrench government spending. This policy—advocated by Treasury Secretary Morgenthau—helped plunge the country back into a deep recession. While FDR was able to partly reverse course, he had the benefit of a Congress with overwhelming Democratic majorities. Even so, it was not until the war mobilization that the level of government spending proved sufficient to pull the U.S. out of the Depression. Had it not been for the war crisis and mobilization, FDR may well have left office in 1940 with the U.S. still mired in difficult economic circumstances and with the New Deal’s political foundation hardly secure.
In any case, when it came to domestic politics, FDR was playing defense from the late 1930s through the end of his term. Even with nominal Democratic majorities, conservatives in Congress managed to defund several New Deal agencies that had been crucial to liberal aspirations (e.g. the National Resources Planning Board) and to launch investigations that undermined popular support for labor unions, one of the key pillars of the New Deal coalition.
Looking back, there is no question that FDR was able to accomplish far more in terms of liberal reform than Barack Obama has or will achieve. But explaining that gap in terms of the individual character of FDR and Obama is far off the mark. Few presidents moved in as many different directions, with as little concern for ideological consistency as Franklin Roosevelt. To attribute his success and Obama’s limitations to FDR’s clear and consistent vision may well be appealing to contemporary liberals hungry for a simple narrative that provides a clear target for their disappointments. But that does not make it a sound historical or political analysis.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2011/08/mischaracterizing_fdr_to_indic031397.php
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)the complex thought processes it takes to understand your post is beyond many DUers' abilities,
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)FDR really wanted to help people, but he didn't know what would work. As he said, he was in favor of "bold, persistant experimentation".
So he started lots of programs, that spanned the far left to the far right. When the Left-wing programs succeeded and the right-wing programs failed, he became a Liberal. That's why I became a Liberal too - Liberal policies simply work better.
As to FDR vs. Obama - where's Obama's equivalent of FDR's extremely-Liberal Cabinet members Frances Perkens or Henry Wallace? What Left-wing policies has Obama tried?
Today's White House is filled with Wall Streeters. FDR had a few, but the current situation is incredible and awful.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)But thank you!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)It sure gets a few people a little upset!
Rex
(65,616 posts)hard at trying to make us not talk about the Third Way. Have you no shame? Think of the investment bankers!
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)The plan, as devised by Karl Rove, Rand Paul, and Paul Krugman is working.
Heh-heh-heh-heh-heh-heh-heh-heh-heh...
Rex
(65,616 posts)
Autumn
(45,082 posts)Usually when Manny posts a whole couple of areas are pissed and throwing a fit.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I guess only the hardcore True Liberals[tm] remain to tell Manny what he is doing wrong.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Wish I could rec this thread again. The sooner everyone knows WHY we cannot protect SS, stop the endless wars, get the obscene amounts of money out of politics, prosecute Wall St and War Criminals etc etc, the better.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I honestly use to not read your posts, but now you are my goddamn hero!
Keep kick up the shit Manny!
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)I had to be very careful not to slip on all the Third Way froth and spittle to come here and kick this thread, but it was worth it.
Thanks for pointing out, consistently, the moral bankruptcy of these vipers and their shills.
Record numbers of homeless children, that sort of thing. (Fortunately for you, the police state you've created keeps the unsightly urchins from view as you walk from your limo to your fabulous dinner parties, but they're out there, cold and hungry.)
Those who murder democracy hire lots of amoral voices to try to steer the conversation away from the real despair they cause. Thank you for rubbing their faces in it. If there are consciences there somewhere under all the spinning, they need to be rubbed in it, badly. If there aren't, they need to be exposed for what they are.