If you want to lose the Millennial vote completely, nominate Hillary Clinton.

[Odin2005]

I'm 28 and all most all of my peers DESPISE Hillary. Many of them say that of Hillary is the nominee they will either vote Republican, Green, Independent, or just not vote. The only people I see crowing for Hillary are middle-aged women, Boomers and older Gen-Xers, who want her president because of the symbolism of the first woman president more than anything substantial.

[alp227]

1. what do your peers say about E. Warren or B. Sanders?

I think E. Warren would UNITE the older people who supposedly have such symbolic attitudes as well as the young people because of Warren's scholarship on bankruptcy and speaking out about debt, a topic very relatable for young folks.

[NYC_SKP]

2. I agree with you. Warren speaks to left and right, young and old, the middle and working classes.

I can't wrap my head around Clinton.

It's as if people think everything is fine and we just want to win to keep a R out, nevermind who's wearing the D.

[brooklynite]

19. Good thing Warren can wrap her head around Clinton...

[cheapdate]

34. And Howard Dean, who is advising her.

[flamingdem]

105. +100 for Howard Dean advising Hillary Clinton

YES

[hootinholler]

256. That's odd

From the Ready for Hillary web site Aug. '14:

Clinton, he said, "is best prepared" though he wants to "see who her campaign team is" before deciding if he will formally endorse her.

Doesn't sound like the words of an adviser to me.

[cheapdate]

351. I happened to see Howard Dean on Meet the Press last Sunday. He said he would working with HRC.

[flamingdem]

103. +1 for Democrats who like to WIN

[LondonReign2]

397. Been winning their asses off lately, eh?

[Kermitt Gribble]

527. Yep. It's all about getting the "W".

Who cares about policy, right?

[flamingdem]

533. I love it when Republicans are envious that Dems have a winner with Hillary

don't you?

[Kermitt Gribble]

540. And I love it

when Dems are fooled in to voting for anyone with a "D" behind their name and have to endure 2 terms of right wing policy. But like I said before - policy doesn't matter.

[flamingdem]

567. Policy like the ACA, Dreamers, LGBT, Net Neutrality?

What's yer bitch?

[rhett o rick]

315. Nice try. Pretend that you don't know politics. You have no idea how Sen Warren feels about

H. Clinton-Sachs. She is polite to her of course, but don't go reading a lot into that.

H. Clinton-Sachs stands for everything that Sen Warren is against. H. Clinton-Sachs puts Wall Street, Goldman-Sachs especially, above the 99%. H. Clinton proved she has zero integrity when she betrayed Democrats and the nation and, not only voted with the Republicans on the I-War, but she helped sell it.

[brooklynite]

348. "Elizabeth Warren: I hope Hillary Clinton runs for president"

Sen. Elizabeth Warren says she hopes Hillary Rodham Clinton runs for president in 2016 — the latest in a series of declarations of support by the Massachusetts Democrat, who some have speculated could seek the Oval Office herself.

"All all of the women — Democratic women I should say — of the Senate urged Hillary Clinton to run, and I hope she does. Hillary is terrific," Warren said during an interview broadcast Sunday on ABC's "This Week," noting that she was one of several senators to sign a letter urging Clinton to run in 2016.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/04/27/elizabeth-warren-i-hope-hillary-clinton-runs-for-president/

[FrodosPet]

388. That was 297-Dimensional Chess

Our puny minds are unequipped to process the true meaning of Sen Warren's statement and actions.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

58. Elizabeth hits all the right notes; Hillary is completely out of tune.

[mike dub]

200. Nice musical metaphor

Oh snap

[Odin2005]

204. This is a great analogy!

[Odin2005]

4. They LOVE Liz and Bernie.

Both speak about things Millennials actually care about

[Wella]

173. Warren is really concerned about student loan debt

That is definitely a young person's issue (as well as some older folks.)

[Odin2005]

180. The Bankster-owned establishment won't touch loan reform with a 10-foot pole.

Warren is, which is why we like her.

[Historic NY]

270. So was the President and he actually did something...congress not so much

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/06/09/president-obama-student-loan-debt-no-hardworking-young-person-should-be-priced-out-h

[cheapdate]

389. Stay on script, man.

[DeadEyeDyck]

576. lol

[40degreesflaps]

288. Great...

...but Liz and Bernie could never actually win. They could never get the financial backing. Suggesting that it's even possible is laughable. You have to stop and think what you're asking.

This is why I say, get ready for Jeb. He's moderate enough to attract votes from both sides. If he runs, he wins. Period.

[Odin2005]

293. Ah yes, the Very Serious People have spoken, no real progressive can EVER win!

We have to let the DLC hacks pull the party further to the right in the name of "compromise" and being "reasonable".

[40degreesflaps]

295. Yeah...

...and your running off at the mouth doesn't make it any less likely. I'm pushing fifty and have been studying this stuff since I was in grade school. All of the very predictable patterns are reemerging, most of which you are unfamiliar with because of your age. You'll learn. You'll have to.

It's not a progressive nation. It never was. Some of us know that. Some of us still have to learn. Good luck. Frankly, going out there and doing your best to get skills and build a financial nest egg would be a better use of your time. The Boomers learned that in the late seventies. For you, right now it's about the equivalent of 1978 so one would think it's time to get your shit together. Now or never.

[Hari Seldon]

330. The Nation IS Progressive

The Vote Counters are not.

[marions ghost]

354. ++++

that's it in 10 words or less.

[merrily]

360. The US oligarchs/plutocrats have never been US liberals. The people, however, always have been.

Ask American people questions, without labeling the issues as liberal, conservative or as Republican and Democrat, over 70% of them will choose liberal policies. That was proven (again) last Tuesday, when sick pay, increase in minimum wage and sick pay did very well in states where they were on the ballot, including red states.

But then, politicians of both of the largest parties get busy telling people things like your post says and dissuading them away from liberal policies as either not representative of America as a whole or impossible to attain. Both are incorrect memes.

For you, right now it's about the equivalent of 1978 so one would think it's time to get your shit together. Now or never.

No, it's past time for all of, starting with the well paid, powerful politicians, to get it together and do the right things. Also time to stop bashing Democratic voters for failures of the plutocrats in D.C. and elsewhere.

[Enthusiast]

537. +1 an entire shit load.

[Kingofalldems]

394. Not a progressive nation you say?

Why was the ultimate progressive, FDR, reelected so many times?

[Maedhros]

430. Blah, blah, blah. Defeatist nonsense.

/ignore.

[A Simple Game]

513. Bet you liked recess and nap time too, probably needed the rest from all that politic learnin'. n/t

[jeff47]

402. You only need the money when you need people to believe your bullshit

Money is not nearly as critical when you support popular policies.

[40degreesflaps]

577. If That's True...

...then why do I hear Jesse Unruh quoted over and over and over in both undergrad and graduate level Poli Sci? The guy was a California Democrat for God's sake!

OK, tell yourself it isn't true if that makes you feel better. Some of us don't deal in feelings. Some of us don't have the time or the patience.

[jeff47]

578. Who's your governor?

Your current governor had much less money than his opponent in 2010. (I haven't bothered looking up 2014)

He won handily. If money = victory, that could not be true.

So either money guarantees victory and your governor isn't Jerry Brown, or money can not guarantee victory.

[Scootaloo]

478. "They could never get the financial backing."

Meditate on what you have just said. When you achieve enlightenment, return to us.

[roguevalley]

138. I'm not millennial. I'm old and I don't want hillary. No energy, no new ideas and

even though I want a woman some day, it has to be someone I can respect. I don't her. That's how I feel. We are not a monarchy yet even though we are now a feudal system.

[ballyhoo]

287. Boy, you got that right. I'm waiting for them to put a moat around the

white house.

[40degreesflaps]

292. You're Not Alone...

...and that's why I say, forget Hillary. She's not likable, doesn't have the magnetism necessary to win the office.

[Javaman]

369. +1000!

As my sig line says, "I'd rather vote for something I want and lose than vote for something I don't want and get it." Eugene Debs, by the way

[Dustlawyer]

376. With you on that! If enough people would get behind Bernie to allow his message to get out,

the rest of Dems could get behind him. The exceptions being the Hillaryites who will tell you not to split the vote, Bernie can't win, hold your nose and all that! I am tired of holding my nose and watching corporations grow in power and cruelty.

[George II]

290. I thought Earl Warren died years ago?

[FSogol]

456. Wrong Warren. They are talking about Warren Sapp.

[Enthusiast]

538. I would vote for Warren Sapp before I'd vote for HRC.

[baldguy]

355. Warren supports Hillary for Pres.

And Sanders has no chance of winning.

[liberal N proud]

3. This is what Primaries are for

If the younger voters don't want Hillary nominated, the need to get involved and then VOTE!!

Sitting at home and blaming someone else isn't going to solve anything.

[Odin2005]

6. Who said anything about NOT voting in the primaries?

Also, many of these people are Independents and so CAN'T vote in the primaries.

[liberal N proud]

10. OP sounded third person

[we can do it]

12. Where is it that independents can't vote in primaries?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

26. The primaries focus on who's running in each major party.

You have to be registered in a party to vote.

Independents don't belong to a party.

[we can do it]

42. You choose a party for the primaries in Ohio, I can't imagine that doesn'r happen anywhere else.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

133. Sure.

And as a Democratic Socialist, I don't get to vote in Democratic primaries, since they're not my party.

[Skidmore]

345. Well, you have a problem, don't you?

Work for change in your state election laws.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

347. That's one thing to do, yup.

Ohio needs fusion voting as well, and for those of us in our party to run for office as well. Even in the generals, there are something like 1/3 to 1/2 of the races that are 'unopposed', and I suspect the vast majority of those are Republicans just being handed offices, time and again. If Dems won't run in those races, it's time for Socialists to start opposing the Repubs.

[Drunken Irishman]

186. Some states force you to register with the party whose primary you're voting in.

[we can do it]

475. You can always change it, it's not permenant.

[hatrack]

349. Depends on the state, and on open or closed primary status

.

[Nay]

222. In VA, anyone can vote in any primary; you don't have to vote only in the primary

that's for the party you are registered with.

[Le Taz Hot]

352. "You have to be registered in a party to vote."

Actually, Ms. Peggy, that's not true in California. I've been "decline to state" since 2004 and have voted in all primaries. Before the Open Primary law, they would just ask which party you wanted to vote in and they would send you to the appropriate booth. Of course, all that changed with the Open Primary Law (of which I was greatly opposed).

[CaliforniaPeggy]

379. OK, I stand corrected, and I thank you for that.

Good morning!

[Le Taz Hot]

381. . . .

[ohheckyeah]

452. In VA anybody can vote in any

primary as long as they vote in just one.

[cheapdate]

43. 19 states have open primaries where independents, or anyone else, can vote.

My state (Tennessee) is an open primary state. The rest of the states are either "closed" primaries (party declaration required) or some kind of qualified open-primary.

[we can do it]

47. Don't most people pick a party for the sake of voting in primaries?

[Chathamization]

79. They should. We have Republicans here who are registered as Democrats. I try to explain to people

that party registration only means choosing which primary you will vote in - or choosing not to vote at all and registering as an independent.

[Alittleliberal]

81. Yes but not independents.

[lunasun]

148. Yes I thought that was the whole point

[NYC_SKP]

142. Twentynine states have closed presidential primaries, twenty have open primaries.

And California has a "modified closed primary".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_primaries_in_the_United_States

[Divernan]

341. 20 states +D.C. have a CLOSED PRIMARY SYSTEM.

http://ballotpedia.org/Voting_in_the_2012_primary_electionsState-by-state breakdown

All 50 states were broken into three different groups by type of primary:

20 states use a strictly closed primary system, including Delaware, Florida, Kentucky, Maine, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Wyoming & D.C.

19 state have an open primary system, including Alabama, Georgia, and Wisconsin

11 states have a mixed system, including:
Illinois: The primary is closed, but voters can change parties each year. Voters may change party affiliation at polls or caucus.
Iowa: The caucuses are closed, but voters may change registration at polls.
Kansas:In the Democratic caucus, Independent voters can register as Democrats on caucus day. For Republicans it is a closed caucus.
Massachusetts: Registered Democrats and Republicans can only vote for their own party in the primary but Independent voters may decide which party they would like to vote for.
Montana: Republicans have a closed caucus, while Democrats have an open primary.
New Hampshire: Registered Democrats and Republicans can only vote for their own party in the primary but Independent voters may decide which party they would like to vote for. Unregistered voters can register on election day.
Ohio: Must vote in the primary of same party as the voter participated in last primary election. Loosely enforced. However, if a voter wishes to vote in another party's primary, he or she must register with that party in order to vote.
Rhode Island: If you are registered as "unaffiliated" you may vote in the primary of any party you choose. Once you vote in a primary, however, you are considered a member of that party until and unless you "disaffiliate."
Utah: Currently, only Republicans close their primary. Democrats and Independents can vote in the Democratic primary. Conventions are held by the political parties prior to the primary.
West Virginia: Uniaffiliated voters and members of minor parties may vote in the Democratic or Republican primaries. The Mountain party typically holds a convention to choose a candidate.

[ieoeja]

410. Illinois is *not* a closed primary.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/open+primary

Noun 1. open primary - a primary in which any registered voter can vote (but must vote for candidates of only one party)
direct primary - a primary where voters directly select the candidates who will run for office

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/closed+primary

Noun 1. closed primary - a primary in which only registered members of a particular political party can vote; "closed primaries strengthen party unity"

In Illinois, I go to the poll. They ask me which ballot I want. There is no party "registration" process. They just hand me a ballot.

[kiva]

37. Then they change their affiliation.

Sorry, but this is just an excuse to not get involved; I know several people who register as 'unaffiliated' (independent in my state is a party) and change before the primaries so they can be involved, then change back. If someone is too lazy/disaffected/stubborn to do so, they have no right to complain.

[we can do it]

44. +1

[Capt. Obvious]

497. Good news for you and your Millennial friends!!

Minnesota is an open primary state so Indies can vote in the primaries.

http://grassrootsidgop.wordpress.com/list-of-states-with-open-and-closed-primaries/

[Spazito]

5. They didn't come out to vote when Hillary wasn't on the ticket this month...

so what's the difference. They didn't come out when it counted, when they could have made a real difference. Threatening to not do what they already don't do doesn't carry much weight anymore, imo.

[Odin2005]

11. Give my generation something to vote FOR.

Millennials are getting "Lesser of The 2 Evils" fatigue. People can only hold their nose for so long and we are reaching our breaking point.

[Spazito]

28. A sad fact of life is that voters, more often than not, hold their noses...

and go vote because the results of not voting end up being worse than their objections to the candidate. Millennials need to learn that lesson, sooner rather than later.

Do you think your compatriots will enjoy the repubs actions on student loans, the environment, programs currently that help them and their families? Those who choose not to show up last Tuesday ensured the repubs were given that power to act. Holding one's nose is the least of their problems, imo.

[Odin2005]

49. Third-Way BS risks driving low-info Millennials into the hands of libertarians.

Go visit sites that are dominated by 20-somethings like Reddit and you will see exactly what I mean.

[we can do it]

59. Libertarian corporate whore wackos or not voting- that'll help.

[Odin2005]

60. Insulting us won't get us to the polls, either

[we can do it]

70. Complaining a democrat is corporatist and then going libertarian-corporate-whore makes no sense.

Not voting elects repubs. It's not an insult, it's a fact.
Show us all something.

[Odin2005]

80. Call the WAAAAAHmbluance, the DLC fuckers are NOT entitled to out votes.

[we can do it]

91. Honey, I'm not the one whining. I get out and know doors every election.

I vote every election......staying home or voting for those who want to take us back to the 1800s will hurt the youngest most.

[marions ghost]

356. "honey" is condescending

--would be a good idea to lose that

[we can do it]

400. So is the assumption that women and older people are all exactly alike.

And so is the notion that if we all don't do exactly what the OP wants a tantrum will ensue.

[marions ghost]

459. So address it

--but try to leave off the drippings.

The Millennials have a point. I am listening.

We all need to work together.

[deurbano]

427. Not as much as " Call the WAAAAAHmbluance"

Which doesn't even make sense as a response to the post.

[marions ghost]

457. It makes sense

Whole lotta whining and blaming going on towards the non-voters in the last election. Doesn't help.

[we can do it]

490. The person who started the whiny post is acusing others of whining and offers nothing to help.

Suggesting someone actually DO SOMETHING is not whining.

[marions ghost]

539. I tend to agree with the OP that

Hillary is not going to speak to younger voters. And why should she? She really represents the old not very progressive ways at this point.

[Veilex]

112. When presented with a republican and somone pretending to be a democrat who's actually a republican

People will vote for the republican every time.

At least then, they know what to expect.

[Odin2005]

219. God Bless Harry Truman!

[Veilex]

221. +1

[Iliyah]

199. Libertarians are GOPers

Anywho, Howard "Kick Ass" Dean!

I'm 31 and will campaign for Hillary!!!!!!

[Heather Kube]

215. I'm coming up on 34, so not middle-aged. I'm so excited by Hillary.

[LP2K12]

431. I don't agree...

Another reason we've seen lost interest from Dem voters is because of this mindset. There are those of us within the party who identify as Libertarian Democrats. Please don't lump us in with those who have an alliance with the GOP. I hold many Libertarian beliefs, but will always vote blue.

There was a good piece by the Washington Post back in August of 2013.

Libertarian Democrats: A movement in search of a leader

[Lydia Leftcoast]

296. It makes exactly the same kind of sense as farmers going Republican

The Dems lost the farm vote in the 1980s when farmers were losing land that had been in their families for generations. At the height of the crisis, they had both houses of Congress and could have offered low-cost refinancing for farmers hit by the double whammy of record high interest rates and low prices for agricultural products. Reagan might have vetoed such a measure (it would have messed up the plans of agribusiness), but if so, the Dems could have said, "You would have had low-cost refinancing if it hadn't been for Reagan's veto."

But they did nothing.

Then the Republicans went all culture war on the country, and rural people thought, "They don't do a thing for us economically, but they respect our social attitudes and community attitudes."

I'm sure Millennial voters understand that the Libertarians have nothing to offer in terms of a social safety net or environmental protection. HOWEVER, Libertarians are against foreign wars (fought mostly by young people), are for decriminalization of drugs, and were against the bank bailout (which angered both left and right wingers).

The Dems need to start tackling the real issues of the day, or else they'll go the way of the Whigs. Remember the Whigs? They were the second major party until the late 1850s, but they dithered about a bunch of unimportant issues and failed to deal decisively with the issue that was one everyone's mind: slavery.

A clever political party has its hand on the pulse of the voters. The Republican Party caters to its base, flatters them, reinforces their prejudices, and does everything it can to intensify the loyalty of the mean and dumb.

The Democratic Party tells its base that they should give money and volunteer but continually disrespects them. The only reason a lot of boomers are hanging on is that they remember how the Democratic Party used to be: the party of the Civil Rights Act and the War on Poverty. But even those ties are fraying.

It's interesting that in Minnesota, Al Franken (whom the Republicans absolutely loathe) won big, because he's not afraid to fight back. (And we are not an entirely blue state; not with Michelle Bachmann being replaced by a former failed candidate for governor).

[jeff47]

403. IMO it isn't the Democrats that will whither away.

The Dems need to start tackling the real issues of the day, or else they'll go the way of the Whigs. Remember the Whigs? They were the second major party until the late 1850s, but they dithered about a bunch of unimportant issues and failed to deal decisively with the issue that was one everyone's mind: slavery.

IMO, the Democrats will settle in as the new right-of-center party.

Third-way will keep dragging the party to the right, and Republicans will go further off into insanity in order to compete. That'll cause the Republicans to wither away, leaving Democrats as the mainstream right-of-center party - roughly where the Republicans were in the 1950's.

Some other party would become the new left-of-center mainstream party. That'll either be one of the existing parties, or a brand-new party formed when the left rebels against the Third-way types dragging the party right. It's not possible to have a single party support such a wide range of opinion, so some bloc is going to feel left out. And I expect the the party to keep blindly chasing Third-way's money instead of returning to the left. And they should pick up enough moderate Republicans to keep themselves electorally alive.

So I think we're in for a few decades of realignment chaos. We had a chance to miss that if Democrats had returned to the left. But Democrats failing to do that leaves Republicans no room to moderate.

[F4lconF16]

522. I'm not sure yet whether I think the Dem. or Rep. Party will wither first.

I haven't though that through completely yet. That said, if you are correct, I would agree with all you have to say but this:

leaving Democrats as the mainstream right-of-center party - roughly where the Republicans were in the 1950's

Amend that to 1980s, and I think you'll be closer to the truth. Democrats have already gone past the 1950s Republican Party--Obama's a Reaganite, remember? If there is going to be a new left party, then they'll be pushed even farther to the right. I'd put them closer to the Bush Sr. or Clinton era Republicans. Possibly worse, as even now Democrats are supporting some of Bush Jr.'s policies.

[Spazito]

64. If Millennials choose to go to the Libertarians, they know what they are doing...

they are adults, have access to the same information we do and obviously lean right to begin with and make the threat to go to the Libertarians rather empty of credibility.

It is not unlike the child in the candy store who throws themselves on the floor having a full blown tantrum because their parent won't buy them what they want. Eventually they learn tantrums don't result in them getting what they want. They grow up.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

156. Except the problem here is that

if you won't offer them a candy bar, they're taking you down with them.

Do you really want to lose because your candidates are too cheap to buy a candy bar?

For all the crap I see about how dedicated people are as Democrats, talking about GOTV, door to door, donating, phonebanking, etc, they suddenly turn up their noses at the thought that candidates maybe should actually try to win votes by siding with poor people about things like student debt.

What good are the candidates, if they're not going to help people with the things people actually want help with? Why should we hire them into office if they're going to be bloody useless when it comes to the things we actually need them to work on?

When the rubber hits the road, the *only* GOTV that matters is candidates loudly and frequently telling people they'll do what the people want if the people will vote them in. Again, if your candidates aren't willing to do that, they're not worth voting for.

[Spazito]

170. The Millennials won't get what they want unless they actually work for it...

throwing tantrums doesn't work. Empty threats are equally as ineffective. Millennials staying home will get repubs, I guess that is what they really want but would rather not come right out and own it.

[Odin2005]

223. We ARE working for it, just not through the party mandarins

http://www.wolf-pac.com

[Spazito]

234. That looks great! I'm betting the active members of your organization...

voted, most of them anyway. I hope so. My criticism is toward those who don't vote, don't do anything but whine about the work others are doing.

The goal of your organization is very important, kudos to all who are working on this.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

71. Seen it - Hillary has ZERO chance of capturing that vote to any significant degree. My kids and all their friends think she's an absolute joke.

[Odin2005]

77. Yep, my generation sees in HRC everything we don't like about Boomers.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

93. Just asked my son; said same thing; commented how Hillary gamed the system, sat on Walmart board, etc, then pretends she didn't grow up privileged & now lookin out 4 the little guy...

In his words: puhhleease!

[Odin2005]

102. Two words: "Goldwater Girl".

She's always been a conservative at heart. She only because a Dem because she married a Southerner back when most white Southerners were conservative Democrats. She is a shameless social climber with a streak of authoritarian moralistic nanny.

[Spazito]

114. Elizabeth Warren was once a republican, she is now a Democrat...

should I hold her past against her, I sure hope not! I quite like her.

[Odin2005]

126. Her change was genuine.

Hillary's was all about fitting in to 70s Arkansas politics.

[Spazito]

145. Ahhh, so it really isn't the "Goldwater Girl" thing at all...

you simply don't like Hillary but needed to throw in the "Goldwater Girl" snark for good measure. I suspect you forgot Elizabeth Warren was a former republican when you did it.

[eridani]

461. I don't care about that at all. I care about what she stands for now

Permanent war, TPP, Keystone XL and getting all cosy with banksters. I don't like it, and I'm turning 68 in a couple of weeks.

[JustAnotherGen]

363. I don't know about this - And I'm not ready to coronate Hilllary

At ALL.

But Warren is going to have to answer to a solid voting bloc on the left - black women of all ages -

For being a solid Republican in 1994. You should look up the contract on America and see who their number one target was. Even Pat Buchanan came straight out and said what the goal was there.


She was genuinely worried about her own personal finances - she was not genuinely concerned for me when I was a 21 year old black woman at University. She went with the people who said I'd have 5 babies by that age and was on welfare and needed to be punished.


The three front runners from DU all have problems - Bernie Sanders has the least. . .

But I still want to see who else is out there.

I don't blame you for the student loan thing and that making Warren appealing. But she better knock it off in terms of those of us who DEFIED her party 20 years ago and were financially successful through tenacity, perseverance and sacrifice.

[Bluenorthwest]

383. She'll have to answer to LGBT people as well, particularly those of us old enough to remember Reagan

and the exact nature of the horrific genocidal policy she ardently supported. She says all she cared about was her own money. She made millions while tens of thousands died and she and her Party did nothing but laugh about the sick and dying.

[JustAnotherGen]

384. You are correct

And the peppy perky thing doesn't work with everyone. She was on Bill Maher a few weeks ago and it was 'rah rah rah cheer cheer cheer'. Very 'on'. . . which might translate well in Massachusetts - but I kind of felt like it was forced.

It just felt 'forced'.

[LawDeeDah]

391. Hold her to her word, Warren would expect that.

Hillary -- windsock Hillary HAS no word, and That is the problem.

She doesn't stand for anything that people care about. Sure she says pretty speeches about womens and childrens rights but on the other side of her face she supports conflicts that rip apart these same women and children. Just her yapping about things does not make them any better - but that's Photo Op Hillary for you.

She says she understands how the middle class feels about economic inequities but thinks she and Bill were 'dead broke' coming out of the WH. What utter stupidicious nonsense. It's appalling she thinks we are all so bloody stupid as to believe that 3 hole outhouse nonsense.

She makes no fucking sense most of the time. It is so apparent she is reading flash cards from her 'advisors' and not saying things she truly believes in, which is money and power because I don't believe she cares about much else.

[Spazito]

398. I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton, never have been...

back to First Lady. I think she did a good job as Secretary of State. If she is the nominee, I don't think it's going to be a cakewalk at all.

Whoever the nominee turns out to be is going to have a tough time, Bernie Sanders' being a socialist will be a hard sell to many, Warren having been a long-time republican will be a hard sell to many as well.

Sanders might run, he seems to be making noises in that direction, I don't think Warren will if Clinton does. If, and it's a BIG if, Clinton decides not to run, all bets are off, imo, and it is a wide open field.

[ieoeja]

414. She did a *terrible* job as Secretary of State.

The White House had to repeatedly walk back statements she made in public that were at odds with the administration's positions. I have never, in four decades of actively paying attention to these things. observed an administration official make that mistake more than once.

Making that mistake even once is often enough to get you fired. But it is clear the Obama administration was trying to mollify the PUMAs, so they kept her on.

Also, lest we forget, the Special Envoy to the Middle East reported to the White House, not the State Department during her tenure at State. The day Kerry replaced her, the Envoy was re-assigned to State. That right there is a rather embarrassing statement as to how the Obama administration really saw her.

[LawDeeDah]

417. wow. Very damning...

Also, lest we forget, the Special Envoy to the Middle East reported to the White House, not the State Department during her tenure at State. The day Kerry replaced her, the Envoy was re-assigned to State. That right there is a rather embarrassing statement as to how the Obama administration really saw her.

Wow, again. I've always suspected that Obama and Clinton weren't as 'friendly' as the press insisted. I wouldn't be surprised if instead of Obama 'pleading' (or some such nonsense) with Hillary to take the SoS job while she mulled it over and insisted on pretty pleases a few times, I wouldn't be surprised if it was reversed - where the Clintons insisted she get the SoS job and Obama hesitantly gave it to her, but with restrictions like you mention above.

I just can't see the Clintons and the Obamas being friends or seeing eye to eye on many things.

Got to add another Wow. Is there a source for this somewhere you can link? I'd like to read more about that, or I can google around later.

[Spazito]

418. I think she did a good job...

you don't, so be it.

[Legalequilibrium78]

174. What gives you the right to infer something

nefarious on an individuals true motive, without any sense of evidence. Like most of us we evolve, our opinions on many different things will reflect our experiences in our lives. We evaluate our own pre-conceived notions, our respective biases. I suspect that you will not be exempt from this evolution or devolution. Just don't make the bloody mistake of casting aspersions on any individuals you happen to detest.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

232. Think you summed it up nicely.

[Bluenorthwest]

382. Warren was a long term Republican, a Ronald Reagan loyalist, she voted for anti gay, anti choice

policies repeatedly, she voted a second time for Reagan in the midst of his vicious silence about AIDS, she cast her second Ronnie vote over the bodies of more than 20,000 dead. Then she voted for George 'Poppy' Bush. She says she did not care about anything but 'the markets' and felt Reagan was very good on 'the markets'. She made about 10 million under Reagan, consulting for coal and that sort of thing.
So Goldwater Girl? Hillary was a Democratic First Lady when Warren was out there organizing for Bush. Bush. George Bush.
I don't like Hillary much, but one thing I like less than Third Way is a double fucking standard. If one person is evil because of a single youthful Republican vote, then the other is worse because of many years of Republican loyalty. You can't have it both ways. The fact that Warren supporters try to have that both ways makes me dislike them intently. 'This person is bad because she once snorted a line of coke, but the other person is great because she snorted an ounce of coke a week for 20 years....'

[deurbano]

469. And Clinton didn't even vote for Goldwater...

Her 17th birthday was a week before the '64 election. She was 16 (or less) for almost the entirety of Goldwater's campaign. (The voting age was still 21 in 1964, so she wasn't even close to voting; she was barely old enough in time for '68.) She campaigned for Eugene McCarthy (a Democrat, running on an anti-war platform) in the 1968 primaries.

As I have previously said, there are plenty of real reasons to oppose Clinton, but this is just fabricated.

[deurbano]

434. There are many real reasons to criticize Hillary Clinton; you don't need to make things up.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/candidates/democrat/clinton/hillary.shtml

<<During summers she worked as a life guard at a local pool and, as a teenager, became active in social causes. Her youth minister, Reverend Don Jones of the United Methodist Church, urged the group to work with inner city blacks and Hispanics in hopes of conquering racism. Hillary took his advice and organized a babysitting service for immigrants. Jones also encouraged Hillary to develop her intellectual interest and loaned her books on theology.

Despite signs of liberalism, Hillary and her parents were staunch Republicans -- she helped out on Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign. After graduating from Maine South High School in 1965 (she finished in the top 5% of her class and was voted Most Likely to Succeed) she enrolled at Wellesley College, an all female school outside Boston.

At Wellesley she became the head of the Young Republicans, but her politics began to shift to the left. The social unrest of the 1960s, specifically the assassinations of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. as well as violence against anti-war protesters at the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago, combined with her early predilection for social activism eventually led her to the Democratic party. She worked for Democrat Eugene McCarthy's presidential campaign in 1968. (Bill Clinton supported Robert Kennedy's campaign.)

In 1969 Hillary graduated from Wellesley and, as student body president, gave her famous commencement address. She dismissed the speaker before her, Republican Senator Edward Brooke of Massachusetts, as irrelevant and gave a speech that described Wellesley's student experience in a personal way. She and her speech were featured in the next issue of Life magazine.

After a summer working for Marian Wright Edelman at a group that would become the Children's Defense Fund, Hillary enrolled at Yale Law school -- where she learned to combine social activism with a legal career. She met her future husband, Bill Clinton, during her second year of law school in 1971.>>

[Spazito]

463. Yes, there is but being a former republican isn't if, by the same token.

you don't criticize Elizabeth Warren as well, that was my point. To criticize one and praise the other ignoring their past is hypocritical, imo.

Criticize away.

[bravenak]

464. Warren is not being called inevitable.

And Clinton has issues with black voters. I do not like some of the things she said, sounded racist.
Actually, the stuff she said WAS racist, and she never aoplogized or acknowleged it was wrong.

[Spazito]

466. I have said in another post, I am no fan of Hillary Clinton, never have been...

I was disgusted by both Hillary and Bill at their comments in South Carolina, I am pretty sure it was South Carolina but will stand corrected if it was not, comments that were, to me, ugly dog whistle comments and I posted about their comments at the time they were made.

I am not surprised she has a problem with black voters given those comments, she should.

I am advocating voting, not supporting Hillary as the candidate, I just think if she ends up being the Democratic nominee, she would still be better than anyone the republicans will nominate and, at the very least, do less harm to black voters than any, any republican. I know that's not much to offer but it's what I truly believe.

[bravenak]

467. I think it's time to stop seeing things in that way.

We are tired of voting for the less racist racist. It has not helped us to advance as we should by keeping silent and voting for them anyway. Maybe if we DON't vote for ANY racist, then racists will know they are not wanted as president and the party whose racist loses will purge them.

[Spazito]

470. That works ONLY if republicans quit too, they won't...

what will happen is the republicans will appoint an Attorney General who will accelerate voter suppression aimed at black voters as well as other minorities, the poor and the vulnerable. A republican Congress will reduce social programs that help, again black voters as well as other minorities, the poor and the vulnerable. They will take the funding from those programs and give it to the wealthy in the form of further tax cuts.

There is no easy way to change a system that isn't working, it is hard, heavy slogging that makes change possible. Holding back one's vote does little except give the republicans more and more power, imo.

[deurbano]

471. I agree with you... and besides, Clinton's first presidential vote was for a Democrat.

She was a "Goldwater Girl" at 16. She turned 17 right before the election at a time when the voting age was 21. (I think you are mistaking me for someone else.)

[Spazito]

472. Oops, will recheck who it was I meant to reply to...

sorry about that!

[deurbano]

473. No problem.

[lunasun]

151. +1

[we can do it]

46. Didn't take much did it?

[Chathamization]

82. Even fewer people showed up to vote for single-payer advocates in the primaries. So no, it doesn't

seem like giving people something to vote for automatically brings out the vote.

[roguevalley]

144. go to vote anyway. there is no excuse ever. write in someone else if you can't

vote for the listed candidate. Vote anyway. Its our DUTY. I have been voting since forever and I have never missed a vote, ever. Its my duty to the future.

[Odin2005]

167. You are speaking to the choir, here.

I DO get out and vote, even in mid-terms and off-year local elections. It is getting my peers to vote that is getting harder and harder as the cynicism and anger towards the system grows. A growing number of my peers think completely overthrowing the system is the only option. Mark my words, their not voting is NOT a sign of apathy, it is a sign of impending revolution coming in the 2020s if things don't change.

[roguevalley]

184. its a vicious thing not voting because it makes it inevitable. I expect revolution and will

participate. I'm old but I love my youngsters ... all youngsters and oldsters everywhere. It really makes me tired. We need to Operation Wall Street the DNC. DO IT SOMEONE! Make them sorry they ignore us. I live in Alaska but for the revolution, I will walk if I have to. What a sorry ass country we have become.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

251. You're making Millennials out to be a bunch of wimps.

Was that your intent?

[Odin2005]

254. OWS was full of wimps?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

271. Well, I was part of Occupy here in NC, and don't consider myself a wimp.

But threatening not voting because old farts insult you is pretty damn wimpy. Get over yourselves.

Now that I think of it, most of the Moral Mondays protesters were the boomers you have such issues with. Stop the bullshit division.

[treestar]

340. Why are you so entitled?

Vote because you are citizens. Demand of others means you think you are entitled to be served by people who, well, if you don't bother to vote, don't have to give you anything. You aren't entitled to be given anything. We are not going to beg you. In fact, you are not so numerous as baby boomers would be, so they have more clout at the polls. At least they don't demand to be given anything. Being subjected to the draft made them active and they were. So they are not going to cotton to demanders who feel entitled.

[Bluenorthwest]

380. Hey, 'something to vote for'? Ironic. I would have loved it if the worst thing on my early ballots

was a less than perfect candidate. Here is what I was offered at 18. Something to vote against. Here is what it said on my first general election ballot:
"Prohibit gays and supporters of gay rights from teaching in public schools - Yes or No".

Give us something to vote FOR you demand. So precious. Because of those before you, you will probably never have to see a ballot measure that holds your group up for specific discrimination. But I had to see that, and let me tell you this, when people say they did not vote because the offerings were not savory enough for them, I think of that Briggs Amendment. I wonder if your precious generation would like to see THAT sort of 'motivator' on their ballots or if they are in fact happy that their elders took care of so much business while they were in diapers? Would you be happier, Odin, if we were still voting 'Fire all the gays-Yes or No'? Is that the level of dramatics you need to feel 'compelled' to vote?

[gmb92]

485. Every election is about choices and compromise

As pointed out, Clinton's Senate record is quite progressive, with differences between Republicans on nearly every key issue, although no candidate pleases their base all the time.

Then we have SCOTUS, the most partisan in history, one that voted for unprecedented special interest money (Citizens United) strictly on party lines 5-4, and may strip 10 million Americans of health care subsidies next year. Put a Republican in office and the Scalia-types are replaced with more Scalias.

If your peers don't know the differences between candidates and the implications of elections, they aren't spending much time paying attention.

[malokvale77]

486. I agree with you

My granddaughter voted for the first time this election (she just turned 18). She wanted to cast her vote for Wendy Davis. After that it was slim pickins (not the Dr. Strangelove guy).

[GeorgeGist]

13. Who needs 'em ...

right?

[Spazito]

41. They are non-voters so their vote isn't lost, it wasn't given...

One has to vote before threats to hold back that vote carries any weight, the Millennials who chose not to vote in November while whining about student loans, the lack of action on the environment, etc, kept their principles, I guess, while they lost ANY chance of the changes they demand.

[Veilex]

118. "They are non-voters so their vote isn't lost" - not quite accurate

Because they didn't vote last time HRC was up doesn't mean they wont vote this time around... particularly if there is someone who speaks to their issues.

[Spazito]

134. The repubs were speaking more to their issues than the Dems in November?

Wow, I must have missed that or maybe they missed the Dems trying to pass student loan reforms and the repubs stopped it. I think it's the latter myself.

Not showing up in November says it all when it comes to how important their issues are to them, not so important it seems.

[Veilex]

152. Honestly? "trying to pass student loan reforms" was too little too late.

And ask any millennial what their top priority is, and its not going to be lower loan rates (although that might be in the top 5). Their top concern is going to jobs. Simple as that. To quote master yoda "Do or do not. There is no try."
In other words, millennials (and a sizable number of the populace) are giving no credit for a failed attempt.

[Spazito]

162. Ahhh, then they also missed the jobs program the Dems tried to get passed...

and the repubs blocked. Not voting guaranteed they won't be seeing any improvement in the job situation for the next two years or even longer, they are more likely to see it get even worse. Smart move on their part, right?

[Veilex]

217. If I looked at it purely as you put it, no, not smart at all... however...

Like nearly everything in politics, there's more going on than what is taken at face value. For example; the refusal to either force republicans to actually filibuster, rather than backing down from mere threats of it, or the elimination of the filibuster... that's a pretty big issue considering the obstruction that has been kept in place by the republicans. In light of that, I'd also have a hard time of giving Dems credit for attempting a jobs bill and yet, not doing away with the filibuster.

As far as I can see, they have a valid gripe.

[Spazito]

253. One can have a valid gripe but it goes nowhere if all you do is gripe...

and not recognize anyone who doesn't achieve 100% of what you are griping about while doing nothing toward helping them actually achieve it.

Now that the repubs are in control of the Senate, thanks in part to non-voters, do you still want abolishment of the filibuster?

[Veilex]

332. "it goes nowhere if all you do is gripe" - But clearly they did more than just gripe.

They chose to refuse to continue to vote for those who had the ability to get legislation passed, and did not. I'd say that most certainly is something. Maybe not what you or I would prefer certainly, but our personal desires aside, it is still certainly something.

In this case, the Dems could have either eliminated the filibuster OR forced the repubs to actually hold a filibuster. Either one would have gone a long way toward showing disaffected voters (not just the millennials), that they were going to actually attempt to do the will of the majority rather than a token effort.

As it stands, I think millennials and an unfortunate number of Dem-leaning voters felt that not enough was done.

I cannot, reasonably, say they are wrong.

[mythology]

191. That's bloody stupid

To give no credit for a failed attempt means that if one party manages to stand in the way, then there's no benefit to the party that made the effort do get to the preferred policy.

At which point, the correct move for a party is to do nothing for that constituency as they simply won't vote and so the party should focus on those who do vote. So congrats on not giving credit for good faith efforts and how it cuts their own noses off to spite their faces.

[Veilex]

203. I respect your opinion, however, I disagree.

I think its rather smart. Particularly since both parties have used failed "attempts" for purely political cover. This is to say, congress critters occasionally put minimal effort into getting something done... usually just enough to claim they tried to accomplish something. This is a common and frequently enough used tactic that the political arena is effectively little more than kabuki theater. In nearly any other job, consistently failing at your job would get you fired.

[Marr]

190. And Democrats lost big, too.

You did notice that, I assume.

This attitude that the party leadership knows best and voters can go to hell if they don't agree is just asinine. If you want people to vote for you, you have to give them something to vote for. Two decades of triangulation has left us with a Democratic Party that doesn't really stand for much of anything, in the eyes of younger voters.

[Spazito]

208. Young voters get it, it's the young non-voters who need to grow up...

If they want change they need to get out and work for it not sit back and simply demand it. So far I see only demands and no work.

They are adults but have yet to accept the responsibility of being so, still demanding their immediate needs be fulfilled without lifting a finger to earn it. I guess no one told them there is no Santa Claus.

[Marr]

213. You need *NEW VOTERS*.

Playing silly word games like, 'they aren't voters because they didn't vote' might sooth your ego, but it won't do jack shit to win an election. They should have been voters. And many would have been, had they been given a reason to vote.

Parties have to attract voters. Centrists don't dispute this point when talking about appealing to so-called 'moderates'. Why deny it when talking about young voters?

[Spazito]

262. Moderates tend to vote, the young non-voters don't...

Yes, parties do need to attract new voters while keeping their regular voters as well and, when push comes to shove, the issues that keep their regular voters are every bit as important as those of the young. Threatening, demanding action without doing a damn thing oneself doesn't achieve their aims at all. Not voting sure as hell doesn't, does it.

[Marr]

266. So we need to cater to "moderates", but every other group should vote Democratic just

because you say so.

This seems just a tad self-serving.

[Spazito]

282. No, you used the moderates as an example so I continued by using your example...

Parties want to keep the voters they can count on, including moderates, coming out while they work to entice new voters as well. It is not all or nothing. There are going to be issues the party supports that do not interest some voters but they still vote because they know the party is also trying to work on their issues as well.

The Dems tried to get a Student Loans reform bill through, the repubs blocked it; the Dems tried to get a Jobs bill through, the repubs blocked it; the Dems tried to get an Immigration bill through, the repubs blocked it; the Dems tried to get Environmental bills through, the repubs blocked them. These are issues I believe the young want addressed yet all too many didn't show up when it counted so saying attention paid to the issues of the young will bring them out to vote doesn't ring true, imo.

[whereisjustice]

209. We got them out in 2008, and then DNC fucked them over, used them, treated

them like shit.

Wall Street crime, fracking pollution, deep water drilling, spying on our families, sending millions more jobs to Asia, prosecuting whistle blowers, backing down from immigration reform, charter schools, militarized police, Ferguson, Occupy Wall Street, Wisconsin, Afghanistan surge, Israel, on and on.

Democratic leadership even called them "fucking retarded" and here on DU we are called "rat fuckers".

The Democratic Party doesn't give a shit about liberals. They hate them. That's how effective Fox News has become, Democratic Party has bought into the lies about liberals.

Liberals remind conservatives of their reckless, cold blooded immorality. The path from conservative (neo-con/neo-lib) policy to the demise of the middle class and our disparate economic and justice systems is short and straight one.

As much as DNC hates liberals, they still need us to pull a lever, fill in a circle, send money. Money for nothing.

That's not a good way to get out the vote.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

284. That's what I see, too, a lot of disillusioned young people

The young voters, bless 'em, really believed that Obama represented CHANGE.

Then Obama widened the war in Afghanistan, pushed through Mitt Romney's health plan, kept the Patriot Act, appointed Wall Street types and Republicans to the Cabinet, prosecuted whistleblowers, and pursued even more job-killing trade bills.

I think their attitude can be summed up by an Old Country proverb that I first heard in the 1970s movie Hester Street, "You can't piss on my head and tell me it's raining."

Obama's enthusiastic volunteers feel that they were had.

If the DNC had INTENDED to discourage the youth vote, they couldn't have done a better job of it.

[whereisjustice]

313. Meanwhile, DNC hacks and the party apparatus think they are winning at 3rd chess. eom

[Spazito]

299. Well, if they think they were "fucked over" by the DNC, they haven't seen anything yet...

with the repubs in control for two years or longer, they are really going to know what being "fucked over" means.

[whereisjustice]

311. the strategy of "oh yeah, a Democratic fucking over is better than a Republican fucking over"

is stupid and backfiring. People don't respond to threats. They call bullshit.

That's why Democrats will continue to lose.

[Spazito]

413. And that's why those who choose to vote will continue to whine while ...

nothing changes. I'm old, my life is pretty well all it's going to be now, climate change isn't going to affect me much, it will devastate the same young, whiny non-voting millennials who can't be bothered to do a damn thing to better their lives, whining works so well.

Non-voting Millennials are fucking over themselves.

[LondonReign2]

407. The Democrats have been trying "We're less bad" for some time now

Maybe it is time to try a different strategy.

[Spazito]

412. Yeah, it's time to stop mollycuddling the whiny, non-voting Millennials...

they need to stand up and be counted so those of us detested baby boomers can step down. So far, I don't see them stepping up to the plate, take their responsibilities to society seriously, take ANY responsibility at all.

The different strategy needed is for the whiny, non-voting Millennials to grow the hell up.

[LondonReign2]

415. How, exactly, have the Democrats been mollycuddling them?

When Obama gave them a reason to vote in 2008 they showed up and voted. Then he promptly returned to business as usual.

Your strategy to shout at them to "grow up" and LIKE domestic spying, war, permanent tax cuts for the wealthy, the greatest income inequality in 100 years is guaranteed to keep losing.

[Spazito]

416. Again, if you don't like what's happening, get off Facebook and Twitter, work for change...

whining about it while doing squat makes whatever you are whining about increasingly irrelevant, imo.

Growing up means taking responsibility for change instead of expecting others to do it for you.

[bravenak]

422. If they see posts like this and the anti millenial attitude takes over the party.

They will come out to vote against the people that seem to hate them and think they are lazy and stupid.
Republicans know they have to convince people to vote for them. Why do Democrats not know this?
Rand Paul is doing OUR outreach that we are too good to do, for us. He went to Ferguson , Hillary did not. He reaches out to the youth and asks them what they want. He goes to Detroit to speak with the Black residents. He wants millenial votes and the Black vote. If we keep treating our own base like useful idiots who should just shut up and vote for us and expect absolutely nothing, they will vote for him. I have young cousins living in the Hood who love Rand Paul because he wants to end the Drug war that has put so many of them, their friends, their relatives, their fathers, their uncles, their husbands, in jail. Our politicians are drug warriors who allow the drug war to assault young people and minorities. And we expect to get their votes without even speaking with them? Rand Paul does sit downs with Blacks and Millenials, we call them lazy and stupid and refuse to be seen with a black president.

[Spazito]

424. If a post on a relative small forum will make them go out and vote against their own...

interests, well, what does that say about them?

It says to me they need to grow the hell up.

[bravenak]

426. "And the anti Millennial attitude takes over the Party"

You missed a portion of my text that was necessary. If the antimillennial attitude takes over the party, it would not be in their best interests to vote for the party who hates them.
You need to read the whole thing, drop the anger, and think about it.
Nobody likes to be called names and have things DEMANDED of them, with not return. They don't NEED us to get things done, WE need THEM. They got their stuff on the ballot, I signed clip boards held by college kids and spent some time hanging in parking lots for more signatures. They raised their OWN minimum wage and tied it to inflation, to call them lazy is absurd and condescending.
They legalized MJ. They protected the Bristol Bay. They walked around and got signatures to repeal the antiunion law. The kids were the ones I saw walking around in the cold getting signatures, them and genxers, but moreso the youth. They voted just as much as your generation did in their time.

[Spazito]

432. You think I have influence over the party?

Seriously? Expecting Millennials to grow and take responsibility for their own futures is hating on them? Wow, just wow.

The ones my criticism is directed at are the ones who DON'T do a damn thing except whine about how they aren't getting what they want while blaming others for it. The ones who ARE out there trying to make a difference are taking responsibility. The Millennials who are out there working their asses off trying to make a difference would, most likely, have the same criticism of their compatriots who expect them to do the work while they do nothing. Would you call their criticism hate as well?

[bravenak]

442. Not you. If the attitude takes over the party.

Like, if it spreads and keeps spreading.
You are very angry at a whole group of people who behaved just as your generation did. It's not like you guys had record breaking levels of voting when you were our age, so why so mad? You guys didn't want to vote for your grandfathers politicians, and they don't either. I do it reluctantly, but I only got serious about it after 2004 when bush got reelected. I missed the registration deadline because I had just moved back up here, but I at least wanted to vote and only because I hated Bush. I have never missed another opportunity to vote.

As they age, they will vote. They need something to vote for and a party that welcomes them.

[Spazito]

443. I voted when I was 20 something, 30 something, etc, etc, etc,

and many of my generation did the same, one has only to check the voting percentages over time to see that so I disagree with your "who behaved just as your generation did". Our generation did turn out and, often, just as now no one had to "give me something to vote for", often there was little that was going to directly benefit me but the other party was going to hurt many, many people and that was enough for me.

Why do you feel a special invitation is needed before others, not you as you vote even if you have to hold your nose while doing so, can be expected to do their civic duty? I guarantee you I didn't EVER receive such an invitation yet I vote and am proud to do so even though, at times, even holding my nose is difficult and a gas mask would be more suitable.

[bravenak]

444. What generation are you?

We can look at the numbers. If you see that the numbers are similar, will that calm you a bit?
I'd really like to try that excersize and see if we can end the generation war today, early. There is plenty each generation can learn from each other.

[Spazito]

446. I was born in 1953, I'm one of those baby boomers...

I guarantee you you will not find a 13% turn out for my generation when we were 20 - 30. The Vietnam war was raging, we voted.

[bravenak]

447. How did you vote?

Did your generation vote red or blue? Seems like many boomers ended up being for Nixon and Reagan.

[Spazito]

451. I always vote left...

Here's a graph showing Congress, the results of mid-term elections as well as Presidential which should give you a good idea of where boomers were at that time. Note the blue Congress during the time we are discussing.

[bravenak]

454. I think that when our generation is fully adult..

Our voting percentages will go up, and we are on the left. More left libertarian than you guys, but definately left.

[Spazito]

462. Okay, bravenak, lets you and I, a baby boomer and a Millennial put aside our differences and...

really talk.

It is the mid-terms, the election of Congressional candidates, both Senate and House, that's key, it's not the election of the President. If the most progressive Presidential candidate wins but both the House and Senate are controlled by republicans, that progressive President can do nothing except veto bills, a veto which can be overruled by a 2/3rds vote in Congress, and issue Executive Orders which are both temporary and severely limited.

Mid-terms are key, the republicans seem to get this more than the left, they get out their voters, using hate and fear, ugly tactics but effective. My intense frustration comes from the seemingly lack of understanding where the real power lies, it is with Congress where there are elections every two years yet the turnout, especially but not exclusive to Millennials as GenXers and some baby boomers, happens during a Presidential election.

If one is going to skip an election, less harm is done if it is for the President than skipping the mid-term Congressional ones.

Do Millennials understand where the real power lies?

[bravenak]

474. Millenials are not all grown up yet.

I am among the oldest, my group votes. As time goes on, they follow our lead and vote like we do. I have gotten my cousins who are in their twenties to vote, but none of my older cousins ever did. I learned from my mother battling with her white conservative husband. His listened to Rush and gave me a reason to vote. I voted against him and his ilk.
We also were the ones who were grown when 9-11 happened. We know that it does mattet who is sitting behind the desk. We know that congree gets nothing done and haven't overridden many vetos in years. We know that republicans cannot override a veto with out democratic help. We know that the party doesn't want to hear what we have got to say. We know they see us as a burden.
What do you do when you aren't being heard? Being ignored? You scream or you go away. Some went away. Some realized that they will never get anything waiting on or asking for or trying to force the parties to change. So ballot measures are the way they can have a voice. And if the win, then the losing party should take tips from them, not bash them for not coming out for them.

You see, we live in a time different from yours, we have no privacy , the prison state targets us and the politicians increase funding and give tanks to those who would imprison us for using banned substances. It's all pain and no pleasure anymore. We have a whoke generation of black children growing up withoupt fathers and with mothers working 2 minimum wages jobs and we expect them to worry about Civics? Maybe the could if we stopped locking up their nonviolent fathers for trying to earn enough to kerp them off welfare. What does the dem party say about issues like this? Nothing. Still being all tough on crime, tough on youth, tough to understand.

We don't want the same exact things that people in their 60's or 70's want or think we should want. We want relief from the anxiety. Are eemocrats offering anysolutions beyond, I'll hurt you, but the next guy will really fuck you over.

Time to update the party. It needs to happen often and yes, the voters needs and wants have to be considered. Otherwise they won't vote for us. Simple as that. And ranting about lazy youth will not get them on our side. It will push them to Libertarians who WANT them and need them and seem willing to include somethings they want into the platform. They can pull libertarians left and leave us high and dry.

[Spazito]

482. Sadly, there isn't a lot of time to give for them to grow up...

the devastating actions that will be taken by republicans, who are no longer relatively moderate as they were during my younger years, will happen quickly and the effects of those actions will hurt the younger people much, much more than they will me.

[bravenak]

488. And we will just have to wait our turn and get rid of conservatism.

[Spazito]

495. Choosing not to vote puts your needs at the end of the line, not the front or even...

the middle. Again, the right votes, they will continue to vote, young voters on the right vote, old voters on the right vote and, because they do, they will control the agenda because they will control Congress.

Not voting IS not only "waiting our turn" it's handing over your turn to those who DO vote, handing it over to conservatives.

[Kermitt Gribble]

535. So you had a reason to vote when you were 20-30.

That is what everyone in this thread is trying to tell you - today's Dems don't give anyone a reason to vote for them, particularly young people. "we're not as bad as the other guys" is getting old. They're applying for a job to represent us, yet we get no representation. Why should people vote for someone that is not going to represent them?

[Spazito]

541. No, I held my nose more times than not...

but I still voted because the other party was sure to do more damage than the one I was voting for. I can count on one hand the number of times I joyfully voted FOR someone over my 40 years of voting but I still voted. Sometimes you have to vote against something worse.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

546. "often there was little that was going to directly benefit me but the other party...

was going to hurt many, many people and that was enough for me."

Seriously. This is the part I don't get. Do non-voting Millennials not understand the overall harm caused by the Republican Party? Perhaps they need to stop focusing on Kim Kartrashian's bleached eyebrows and focus on something that really matters...

[Spazito]

552. I don't know, I've tried every which way to get that point across...

without success but, damn, I intend to keep trying.

[malokvale77]

503. Thank you for this bravenak

My kids and grandkids have worked hard at all these issues, and I'm getting a bit sick of hearing them dumped on by the very people who built this corrupt system.

[bravenak]

504. Me too.

I feel guilty like Reaganomics was my fault and I was a baby . I will not be blaming my kids or grandkids for not caring about what I care about. I will give them something to care about.

[malokvale77]

509. I cast my vote for Carter...

For the second time. I remember how disappointed I was when Reagan was elected.

That election also showed me that the liberal, leftist man I thought I married, was in fact a bigoted asshole.

Live and learn. I don't think he has ever forgiven me for raising our kids to be so liberal. Hah.

[bravenak]

510. My mom voted for Carter too.

She said it was her last good vote until Obama. My stepdad was fully conservative and would set himself on fire if he were alive if he saw me. Funny cause he was kinda a hippie until the 80's, but he got weird when Rush came out. Very authoritarian. He voted for Reagan and Bush1. My mom voted Clinton behind his back. He used to give her a slip of paper with the way he wanted her to vote written on it. She would smile and thank him, and promptly vote for anyone NOT on the list.

[malokvale77]

514. Good for her

Curious - Did your father become a property owner around that time?

Not long after my husband and I bought our house, he seemed to go conservative. I saw that same pattern in many of my old "hippie" friends.

Something about owning property makes people afraid?

[bravenak]

516. Late 70's he and his first wife bought a place in racist Canyon Country.

He was a white guy. Changed him I think.
He was suddenly scared of people taking his stuff, was anti affirmative action, and lost a child when he drove over a cliff on angel dust. I think that did it. Guilt complex and scared of retribution.

[malokvale77]

520. My ownership theory holds up a large percentage of the time.

I've seen way too many times here on DU the whining over property values when somebody doesn't keep their lawn up to their sense of aesthetics. No heart, no soul.

I call them Reagan Democrats. I think we call them Third Way now.

I'm happy to see my children and grandchildren take up the cause. I hope they hold some feet to the fire. Too many from my generation have become weak.

[bravenak]

521. I see that in my generation too.

As they get money they lose empathy and just cannot imagine people living so much differently than them. Then they look down on them from on high like nobles whose slaves are not obeying.

[malokvale77]

524. I see this has become a rather long thread. Haha

I have been wondering about the progress of your book. I'm looking forward to reading it.

[bravenak]

526. It is pretty long.

An airing of grievances was needed around here apparently. I have been working on the book slowly, the longer it gets, the harder it seems to wrap it up. Been Working on poetry too. Submitting it and getting some published. Hopefully I'll finish that book though, but I may rewrite it with a different angle. Trying to decide , but I'm not in a rush. I have multiple works going at once right now and the shift between books and characters take me a bit to get going. I'm glad it's winter.

I wrote a poem and posted it in African American. You should read it. It's kind of appropriate for this thread , I would repost it but I hate Vanity threads. Poetry has been distracting me lately. Helps manage my anxiety.

[malokvale77]

528. I read it. I liked it.

I wasn't logged in at the time to rec (work).

Don't forget me when your book is finished.

[bravenak]

529. I will tell you as soon as I finish.

I have time this winter to get on it. Maybe by spring? Slower than I thought.

[malokvale77]

532. Thank you (nt)

[we can do it]

479. My what tender young souls. What would they have done facing the 60s discrimination?

If you don't stop this I will just stay home or vote to continue it.....sheesh.

[bravenak]

484. I still face discrimination today. It ain't over by a long shot.

Have you ever face discrimination like the sixties? I have. If you haven't does that mean you're soft and tender? Weak? Cause I sure habe been called my share of name, beat and called names, attacked and called names, called racist names in school by teachers, etc. Did you think you had done me a very special favor and ended racism? Poor you. We are not properly grateful for the shit heap we have to live in.

[we can do it]

494. Yes. Both now and then.

I am continually working to end it for everyone. Not voting or doing something constructive aids those who want things like they were in the 1850s.

[bravenak]

564. I always vote.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

571. I like Elizabeth's positive message; strikes a chord with me.

[LondonReign2]

401. +1 million

[bvar22]

499. I actually started believing in 2008.

[font color=white]......[/font][font size=4]Obama's Army for “CHANGE”, Jan. 21, 2009[/font]

[font color=white].....................[/font][font size=4]"Oh, What could have been."[/font]

[Enthusiast]

549. +1

[DawgHouse]

319. That's true! nt

[grahamhgreen]

419. So, you don't want them to vote???

[Spazito]

421. Quite the opposite, I want them to grow up, take their civic responsibility seriously...

and vote. If I didn't want them to vote, I would be applauding them for sitting on their asses whining about how bad those doing the heavy lifting are doing the job they refuse to do.

[grahamhgreen]

425. All we have to do is give them something ot vote for. Say, raising taxes on wealth!

But they are not going to vote for someone they see as representing the oligarchy.

[Spazito]

428. See, that is exactly the problem, spoon-feeding them is not the answer...

lol on "raising taxes on wealth", yeah, that is SO important to them they chose to sit out the mid-terms helping the repubs take over the Senate so more tax cuts for the rich will be given. Smart move, right?

Catch phrases here or on Facebook, empty phrases about the "oligarchy" does absolutely nothing to change anything. It might make those doing it feel better about doing nothing of substance but it, again, changes nothing.

I don't have to give them anything, it's time they worked for it themselves.

[bravenak]

429. They did.

Their ballot measures that they supported won. Our candidates lost.

[Spazito]

440. Those that worked to get ballot measures passed did vote...

so they aren't the ones I am criticizing. It's the ones who didn't do a damn thing except post Facebook rants as to why they didn't vote for whom I have little patience.

[newfie11]

7. This boomer didn't vote for Hillary before and don't want to in the future.

Give me Bernie, or E. Warren.

BTW my husband and I both voted in the primaries.
We are in a very red state but never miss a vote.

[Veilex]

124. +1 for the statment and +1 for never missing a vote! :)

[newfie11]

177. Your welcome

[we can do it]

8. How about the Millenials show up and nominate someone progressive?

Stop waiting for the world to change and change it.

Do something or stop whining.

[Odin2005]

18. We did in 2008, but our FDR turned out to be an Al Smith.

We Millennials feel that the corporate Establishment will get what it wants no matter what.

[we can do it]

39. 2008 was a long time ago. How about someone young stepping up?

I'm tired of hearing about how it's everyone else's fault when things don't go the way you want. Show us all something positive and for longer than one election.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

168. You can't. There are minimum age requirements for national offices.

You have to be at least middle aged to actually be President.

[roguevalley]

176. I will listen to legit bitching all day long but if you don't vote, no. Shut your face and go

away. Get involved or be a part of the problem. Millennials will live in global warming longer than old geezers like me who vote every time and have for liberals since a hundred years. My entire family has voted an campaigned for liberal dems for a hundred years. We participated and helped. Vote as if your life depended upon it because it does. Get involved at the local committee level and get the candidates you want into the system. Band together and make yourself heard with media and boots on the ground and stop whining like its someone elses fault that you aren't happy. Voting each time is what you do when you are a grown up and understand your responsibility to the greater good. Its work and it matters. Make your own' positive' or not, but don't blame others if you stay outside the process whining and nothing changes. Its called grow up and participate. DO it at the local level and be a voice that is heard saying what you want. Otherwise, you deserve what you get.

[marions ghost]

361. the "grown up" argument is lame

I'm not seeing a lot of grown ups on the Repug side of things, and they all vote.

There may be a form of responsibility to the greater good that goes beyond voting, which does not seem to be working well in this country.

My navy officer stepdad used to say "grow up" ALL the time to us. it was his favorite put-down. And yet he never grew up himself and even now acts like a spoiled child. So the "grownups do X" thing is unconvincing to many.

[roguevalley]

404. so your dad acted badly. are you going to do the same

Being adult means being responsible even when it hurts. Cry baby millennial staying out of the process guarantees it's failure.

[marions ghost]

455. Your approach is NO way to change anything

--shaming and lumping everybody in for an old-fashioned smearing with your big brush-- does nothing to help the situation but only continues to divide the generations.

Dividing the generations---hmmmmm---now who would be behind that? And what would be the value of that politically...........................

[Bohunk68]

373. Good advice. I would add just one meme: SILENCE=CONSENT=DEATH nt

[roguevalley]

405. + a zillion

[treestar]

339. Yeah it has to be done right away

within the term on one Congress, or you'll go home and hold your breath until you turn blue.

Immature fuckers. My generation when young was very politically apt and knew they had to work for things. And they were numerically a large number! The baby boom meant that generation had such great numbers it could have influence. And it did. They protested. They had tremendous influence, and the country was so liberal, as other threads have shown, even the Republicans were so liberal, Nixon as Republican Criminal President was relatively liberal.

Never did they demand to be entertained and cajoled and catered to. They were literally in the streets. They got the vote for 18 year olds (the age had been 21). Now they are in their 50s and 60s and don't you dare tell them they have to cater to and beg spoiled whiners for their votes.

[Chathamization]

372. "I tried voting in the primaries once, but ended up voting for the wrong person, so I quit."

That's a pretty horrible approach to democracy.

[RedCappedBandit]

396. We failed to turn up in the consequent elections

The best way to ensure the corporate establishment will get what it wants is by encouraging other young people not to vote, which is what I've seen plenty millennials doing.

[KMOD]

29. kudos for the John Mayer lyric reference

Clever

Note: Not looking for a fight in this, just love clever posts.

[we can do it]

51. (Thanks) That song drives my insane!

[still_one]

9. So you are now spokesperson for the millinials. Impressive. I thought the millinials were a

Last edited Sun Nov 9, 2014, 11:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Diverse group that covered left, right, center, and don't give a shit

[bravenak]

15. You care enough to be nasty about it.

[Odin2005]

20. Older folks apparently can't keep themselves from yelling at clouds.

[bravenak]

27. Not ALL older folks!!!

This one is pissed we didn't eat our shit sandwiches.

[Odin2005]

40. Thanks!

Too many Boomers and Xers seem to think we Millennial are still ignorant little kids who need to be talked down to rather than treated as adults.

[bravenak]

61. They forget WE are having children in this economy.

College might be a million dollars by the time our kids need to go, and we are way poorer than they were.
I am tired of them saying they never got everything they wanted either. Um, hello!! We were born under REAGAN?! WE HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THEIR LIBERAL DREAMWORLD!!!

Do they think they left us with a solid liberal government or something? And now its OUR fault the party doesn't represent us?

They sat up there for years trying to get the President to write all the legislation, pass it, and sign it, and they wonder why they looked weak when they ran from him.

Bunch of shy strippers!!

[Odin2005]

69. Admitting that we are adults means admitting that they are now old.

Boomers HATE being reminded that they are getting old, the oldest boomers are now 71, the youngest 54.

[bravenak]

128. I am surprised that more don't want our input.

And they seem to not want us around unless its to vote for them. Trying to tell the to earn votes is pointless. They think we are lazy, selfish, undeserving and unnecessary. Great way to woo the largest generation since the boomers! More of us turn 18 every day, so they need to make sure to let us know they don't need us and call us names.

[Odin2005]

146. Our generation is on a rondezvous with destiny, to paraphrase FDR...

...and if older generations do not want to lead we will take things into our own hands on a local level. If the Democratic Party continues the BS expect mass defections of Left-Wing Millennials to radical groups like Socialist Alternative who are actually doing stuff on the local level rather than intentionally frustrating it.

[bravenak]

160. It's happening on a local level here.

Millenials and younger genxers get initiatives put on the ballot and they won all four in my state this week. Millenials won the day up here, Democrats lost. They need to look at how alaska young progressives got stuff on the ballot and got 52 to 68 percent of voters to vote for it.

[Odin2005]

172. Folks in Seattle got a COMMUNIST elected to their city council.

Kshama Sawant, she's awesome!

[bravenak]

192. I truely think we need more of that to free liberals up to be liberals.

They want to be in the middle? Put somebody on the left up against them so they can fight about real policy instead of rightwing bullshit.

Good job Seattle!!

[MoonchildCA]

132. You seem to be complaining of boomers stereotyping your generation...

...while at the same time you are stereotyping them.

By the way, the youngest boomers are 50--I'm 52.

And sure we are getting old--just don't blink, you'll be here before you know it.

Now, all that being said, as one of those middle-aged, boomer women, Hillary is the last person I want to see on the ballot. I didn't like her last time, and she has done nothing to change my mind.
The polls are based solely on name recognition right now. This time in 2006, Barack Obama was just barely on the radar as a long shot, and McCain was expected to drop out, his numbers were so low.

I'd expect, if everyone on this sight participated in a poll, Hillary's numbers would not be nearly as high as they are in the general public, though most of us would vote for her in the general, if that's what we're stuck with, because no matter how bad she is, the republican will be much, much worse.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

243. Nice stereotyping. Just what you were railing against.

[Bohunk68]

374. Not to quibble, but 71 is not boomer.

I know, because I just turned 71 a few weeks ago and was born in 1943, I was termed a "War Baby" and so were those of us born 1944 and 1945. The boom is usually accepted as starting as late as 1948, because that is when some of the vets began getting out of two-year colleges and began hitting the job market.

[Odin2005]

572. Demographically, no, but 1943 births were the oldest who could be drafted...

...to be sent to Vietnam, and so are considered Boomers culturally by Bill Strauss and Neil Howe in their books Generations and The Fourth Turning.

[Bohunk68]

575. Never heard of either of them.

Culturally boomers? Some might be, I tend to have some similarities with them and some with the group in the late 30's. I tend to believe that most of my fellow War Babies feel similarly. Certainly, Boomers are a much larger demographic.

[still_one]

85. I am not pissed, but there is sure a lot of animosity that is coming from you

[bravenak]

97. You said you don't give a shit.

And you seem mad millenials didn't vote in democrats. And when you get an explanation, you seem to get more angry.

I've been pissed my whole life. I'm used to not getting my way, ever. I'm young, black, a woman, and was born under Reagan. Nobody in power gives two shits about me at the fuck all unless its to blame me when they don't win. So boo hoo!
We lost. I'm used to being considered not worth listening to. And I'm right, ad usual. I don't have the privilege of people caring when I'm mad.

[still_one]

164. NO that ISN't what I meant. I meant the millennial were a diverse group comprised

of left, right, center, and those that don't give a shit. That means, there are millennials that don't care, when I said don't give a shit. It doesn't mean ALL millennials.

I wasn't referring to myself or to all millennials. Like all segments within a demographic there are many views, some more predominate.

I never blamed the millennials or any specific demographic for the election loss. The odds were stacked against the Democrats in this midterm from the get go.

The argument that millennials didn't vote and that is why the Democrats lost is bullshit. Voting turnout was low period. It usually is low during midterms, but this was worse than usual. It is the argument that was used in 2000, that Nader was responsible for Gore's loss. Those who make that assertion assume that the greens would have voted for Gore, and that is a false assumption. I used to subscribe to that assumption, but after thinking it out fully through nothing is guaranteed. No one can take anyone's vote for granted. There may be arguments why one should vote one way or another, but it should never be taken as a given. The book "What's the matter with Kansas" touched on this. A better example is when Jimmy Carter deregulated the airline industry. Labor was quite upset by this, and ended up voting for reagan. Labor's votes were taken for granted by the Democrats, and that assumption not only hurt the Democrats, but the labor unions themselves, and ultimately the country by electing reagan

[Odin2005]

175. !!!

[still_one]

185. I just re-read my post, "I" was a typo. You probably don't believe me, but that is the truth. I am

changing it now. You can rag on me for screwing up in the typing, but that is NOT what I meant that "I don't give a shit", and it wasn't Freudian either. I was referring to some millineals. My bad for not carefully checking before hitting the POST button

It has happened before usually with autofill, and my stupidity for not verifying

[bravenak]

189. No. I get it.

We can leave it at that, a misunderstanding.

[still_one]

195. My problem is I did a stupid typo which completely ruined the point I was trying to make. So I am

really sorry for that misunderstanding, and probably inflamed quite a few people.

Take care

[bravenak]

198. I rarely stay mad for more than 30 seconds.

Suck that your point was ruined and a subthread got started. Don't feel too bad though. No point.

[still_one]

202. Thanks

[Bluenorthwest]

385. I'm much older than you. I'd like to show you a line from the first general election ballot I voted

at age 18. I get the feeling people do not understand where we started. If I had sat it out waiting for something that was positive to vote for it would have been a long fucking wait.
Here is what was offered to me when I was the Youth Vote:
Prop 6 "Prohibit gays and supporters of gay rights from teaching in public schools- Yes or No"

Let me tell you this. Once you see that sort of a question about your people on a ballot, you will never skip a ballot again.
So that's what it was like when I was the youth vote. Hard to see this week's elections as worse than that.

[bravenak]

393. I never DO skip voting.

Last edited Mon Nov 10, 2014, 01:10 PM - Edit history (1)

I just want more of us to vote. We vote just as much as everyone else did at our ages.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

305. Not me. I know you guys have it tough

It frosts me when people of my generation say, "They should have just worked their way through college." At today's prices, that would allow one three-credit class per semester.

[still_one]

25. Actually I am stating exactly what they are, a diverse segment. I had a typo in the original

Last edited Sun Nov 9, 2014, 11:33 PM - Edit history (1)

post which I have since corrected, but suffice to say it changed the whole meaning of the post

[bravenak]

32. We are pretty diverse and super jaded.

We know a shit sandwich when we see one.

[DCBob]

14. She will make up for loosing some of those voters with huge gains..

from moderate women and minority voters.

[bravenak]

21. Who says minorities like Clinton so much?

She don't give us a thought. Keep thinking that the Obama voters will shift to her automatically.
When I talk to younger black and middle age ones,some like her, some remember the primary and hate her guts.

[DCBob]

62. By the time we get to the general election in 2016...

I think it will become clear who cares about minority issues and it wont be the GOP nominee.

[bravenak]

83. Oh, I see. She'll start caring during the general.

So compelling. Maybe she'll stop by Ferguson and ask them how they liked Rand Paul's visit during the protest that she ignored

[DCBob]

90. not what I said.

[bravenak]

101. Seems like it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

78. That's puttin it mildly!

[cherokeeprogressive]

267. Old. White. Establishment. Hawkish; She's awesome! Sign me up! n/t

[bravenak]

269. LOL!!! They forgot what she said about Obama.

My oldies in my family still bring it up all the time. Every time I bring up politics, it's the "Hillary though Obama should be serving her lunch",conversation. Never fails.

[ucrdem]

273. Did they like Bill?

I think that's what she's counting on.

[bravenak]

277. Yeah.

Not enough to vote for her. They think she's a racist. Prefer their racists to say it out loud. Easier to deal with and not so hurtful. Felt stabbed in the back. Then she went silent on Ferguson and my uncle said he bets she'll show up to get her sone vote though, expletive.

[ucrdem]

280. Ouch Not good.

It's going to be a tough race and it got even tougher last week. Frankly I don't know if any Dem can win but whoever runs better be ready for a seriously unpleasant campaign. That much at least HRC is an expert at.

Anyhow thanks, this thread is irresistible!

[bravenak]

289. No problem.

I found it to be an experience myself. I was posting from the car on my phone, this thread was so good. Learned alot.

[AtomicKitten]

22. Many black voters have not forgiven the Clintons

for the dog whistle politics and race-baiting they engaged in during the 2008 Democratic primary. The Clintons are delusional if they think the minority vote is automatically and by default hers.

[DCBob]

68. True but I think she can recover many of those voters..

if she makes minority issues a focus in her campaign... which I think she will.

[AtomicKitten]

75. Well she can give it a shot but voters aren't stupid.

She can't win on the Third Way/corporate track and if she pretends to be anything else, she won't win because her phoniness would be visible from outer space.

[JustAnotherGen]

370. We aren't dumb

We aren't going to fall for the Republican's approach hook, line or sinker. But a lot of us won't be voting for Hillary or Warren in a primary either.

They'll only get my vote in a General Election.

[Odin2005]

35. Right, just like Psycho Sarah would cause women to vote for McCain.

Oops.

[peacebird]

48. Bullshit. She lost the nom in 08 and is even less relevant now

[TheKentuckian]

120. Bull, what huge numbers of "moderate women" are there to draw on that don't vote Democratic now?

Hell, who are these hidden minority votes that she will pull that no one has before?

Pure whistling past the graveyard. The only appreciable vote that aren't locked in are abstaining and this old bullshit isn't moving them, in fact the only thing that will is sustained effort and action in actually representing the general welfare.

[JustAnotherGen]

364. I've got to agree with bravenak on this sub thread

She doesn't have us locked up at all - minorities and women.


And all Democratic candidates should be acting as Rand Paul is. Doesn't matter why he is doing it -

It's going to be one hell of a campaign ad when he's sitting down knee to knee with poor black people.

[RiverLover]

16. Not crowing for HIllary, signed Middle-aged Woman ~nt

[LittleBlue]

17. Same here. I'm 32 and none of the Democratic-voting people I know

are enthusiastic about her at all.

I won't bother to vote if she's the nominee. In fact I'll be the first of my family in 4 generations to leave the party. If the country's going to burn to benefit the corporatists, it matters little who lights the match.

[Odin2005]

24. And all these shrill people screaming insults at us...

...will just make us less likely to vote. It's as if the older generations actively hate us.

[LittleBlue]

38. Agreed. When I see progressives putting on their capes for corporatism

It just turns me off. The entire process seems like a waste of time. The Democrats must find an advocate for normal people or many of us will simply leave. I doubt they care so long as they can leave office and find work at lobbying firms and defense contractors.

I don't put the blame entirely on the older generations, though. Many of them feel the same way. It's just that you have these cults of personality that attract disproportionately one demographic of people who want to live vicariously through certain politicians. Unfortunately Hillary has one of those groups.

[Odin2005]

57. I have noticed that many Boomer women seem to live vicariously through powerful women.

Boomers remember a world before powerful women were a common thing and are still sort of stuck in that mental world. It's Latte Liberal identity politics at its most innane.

[deurbano]

163. Through which powerful women are these many Latte Liberal Boomer women vicariously living?

[Alittleliberal]

109. I just don't know how they can blame us for for losing faith in this so called labor party.

At least Democrats used to stand for something. I'll continue to canvas, educate and most importantly vote; but I understand why most of my friends won't. The only thing they know 40 years of policies that led to the shitty situation we are in. And no one fucking cared. Both parties sold us out. Then both parties clung to their sides social issues to make us forget they were giving are futures away. More then anything else I can't stand the constant criticism of our technology use. Clearly they are all too busy stuck on their own electronics to realize that everyone else in the fucking country is as well.

We have serious problems, but younger people always have lower voter turnouts. And there isn't a single demographic that has 100% Maybe it's not a generational issue maybe we all just suck.

[Marr]

201. I think they're just Hillary fans.

I'm 42 and don't like her at all. If you're younger than 30 or so, you've literally never known a Democratic Party that stood for anything more than, 'we're not as bad as the Republicans'. That is a shit sales pitch and I wouldn't blame anyone for being unmoved by it.

Millennials have been handed the worst economy and prospects in generations, so this arrogant 'you don't know any better' shit they get-- from the same people who've cheered for the policies that have undermined those prospects-- is just baffling to me.

[Carolina]

481. Touche! K&R, Marr

I am much older than you are and I can't stand HRC. She couldn't run a decent campaign in 2008 and when she was losing, she resorted to the kitchen sink, practically endorsed McCain(!) and hung in there 'til the CA primary because in her paraphrased words ya' never know what might happen there... remember Bobby Kennedy! Other Democrats had to ask her to bow out!!!!!

She's unprincipled as shown by her IWR vote, her cover my ass speech justifying it and again, that awful 2008 primary campaign. She's DLC, 3rd Way or whatever the name du jour is, and she is just plain irritating to listen to. She would be nowhere without Bill who had the trifecta of native intelligence, charisma and oratorical skills. Remember, after Yale Law School, he went home to Arkansas while she supposedly sacrificed so many opportunities to follow him. Bullshit, she saw his rising star, latched onto it and has ridden it to where she is today. Does anybody seriously think we would ever have heard of Hillary Rodham without her 12 years as the Governor Bill's wife and 8 years as POTUS Bill's First Lady?!

She's a loser and the Clinton magic is gone now that we feel the consequences of Bill's NAFTA, Gramm-Bliley-Leach Act (which overturned Glass-Steagall) and the Telecommunications Act of 1996. Obama (some change) peopled his cabinet with Clintonistas and look what that got him and us.

So, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

227. Why are you and others so susceptible to what others say to, or about, you?

Just today I was called a FUX viewer. Yesterday I was a fan of the National Review. Over the years it's been emoprogloonyfarleftyleftist who throws hissyfits. I couldn't care less what insults "they" hurl, and am rather baffled as to why you and your generation would allow others to influence whether you vote.

[RiverLover]

36. Very well said!

I've never not voted before. I will not vote if Hillary is nominee, & I'll only stay active politically in getting $$$ OUT OF POLITICS. No party. That would make me incredibly sad, but what is the point in being a Democrat if Democrats are regressive too?

[peacebird]

54. Me too.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

298. Please don't abstain from voting entirely

Vote for lower-level races, which have a greater influence on your daily life than any president, and cast you presidential vote for another left party if you absolutely can't vote for Hillary.

If you don't vote, the pols can disregard you even more than they do now.

If only five people in the entire country voted, the candidate who got three would crow about a "landslide victory " about the candidate who got two.

[JI7]

23. of course she can win, Howard Dean is supporting her and according to some Dean knows how to win

[Odin2005]

30. She won't win if my generation refuses to vote for her.

[JI7]

45. many candidates have won that your generation refused to vote for

[arcane1]

31. I'd kinda like them to vote in the primaries too n/t

[w4rma]

33. The Third Way would prefer to lose the Millennial vote, it appears. (nt)

[Odin2005]

65. It's a vicious reaction to Occupy, IMO.

We Millennials are no longer following the Corporate Neo-Liberal narrative so we are being attacked, insulted, called "entitled" and "narcissistic", and told to let the "Very Serious People" and "grown-ups" handle things.

[w4rma]

321. That would appear so. (nt)

[Maedhros]

433. It's as simple as this: Millennials aren't voting the way they are told to.

This makes the apparatchiks angry.

[jaysunb]

50. I'm 71 and agree with you wholeheartedly....about Hillary.

Under 50 Black folks don't think much her either.

[Odin2005]

73. You 'War babies" said never to trust someone over 30...

...now you are old farts, how does it feel???

[jtuck004]

98. What has changed? n/t

[Odin2005]

106. But I'm turning 30 in a year and a half.

[jtuck004]

143. That's ok. If one was there to hear the original, the next line "You can't trust anyone under 30

either", kinda brought it home. What we learned is you have to be careful who you trust, regardless of age, and that the way forward is to find a group to cooperate, because together you are stronger. Black, white, young, old, - you just have to care about the people.

As you point out, many may say they are on your side, but are really out for themselves. Hard to see too, since they camouflage themselves by appearing similar to what one sees in the mirror. And they depend on one's preconceived notions of what a friend looks like.

The ones that make us stronger are out there. Just have to look.

[Odin2005]

153. LOL, thanks!

[jaysunb]

239. Don't get carried away, youngster

cause if you get lucky, you'll be around to tell some young whippersnapper the truth.

[jillan]

52. I'm 58 and most of my peers want Elizabeth. It's not just an age thing.

[we can do it]

55. Hoping she runs, she really connects with all people.

[Odin2005]

84. I adore Liz, she's like everyone's favorite mom!

[JustAnotherGen]

368. She's nothing like mine

Make sure you aren't annointing her Odin. I can't relate to that woman at all on a personal level. She's nothing like me.

[Bluenorthwest]

386. My Mom was never, ever a Republican like Warren. My Mom cast votes for equality and never for

anti choice bigots like Reagan and Bush. Warren was a Republican all though my time as a 'youth voter' and during that time the Republican Party Warren ardently supported was horrifically genocidal toward the LGBT community and utterly reckless with the global public health challenge of our times.
Liz is an extremely wealthy woman. My Mom was not rich. She was not a Republican. My mother was nothing like Warren, a right wing anti gay multi-millionaire.
My Mom loathed Reagan. Warren loved Reagan.

[wyldwolf]

53. yes, we'll certainly base the nominee on what your drinking buddies think.

[Odin2005]

86. More insults is all you DLCers have, apparently.

[wyldwolf]

89. So calling your friends 'drinking buddies' is insulting?

Home team? Bro's? Your crew? Posse? 'the boys?'

[Odin2005]

94. I could feel the sneering all the way through the inter-tubes.

You were implying that our views are not very serious.

[wyldwolf]

99. saying a presidential election will be won or lost based on what a few of your friends say...

... is sneer-worthy.

[Odin2005]

111. My acquaintances are a good cross section of my generation.

[wyldwolf]

113. So? It's anecdotal and a VERY small sample size.

Already people in this thread have reported the opposite experience as yours.

[chrisa]

117. Ignore voters born between 1980 - 1996 at your own peril. We (those old enough) helped get Obama

elected. The Democrats need us, and opportunistic Libertarians are baiting us away with bull crap. It's not just Odin's friends - that's a lot of voters that the Democratic Party continues to not take seriously, and as a result, will pay for it.

[wyldwolf]

344. No one is ignoring them. Hillary is winning them by a mile.

[LondonReign2]

408. Being a professional asshole to people that WANT to vote Democratic

is a fantastic strategy

[LiberalElite]

56. I'm older and would love a woman elected president but

I wouldn't just vote for H. because of that. (I don't like her anyway.)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

100. Me too! Her name is Elizabeth.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

63. "Young wolves, show us your teeth." John Steinbeck K&R

[we can do it]

74. Winner!

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

66. I think Romney showed how electable self-appointed "birthright" candidates are

Hillary Clinton wants to be President for the same reason Mitt Romney did. Because she feels entitled to it. That doesn't click with many people other than your own sycophants who want to ride your coattails.

[Odin2005]

88. My generation is very sensitive to the entitlement thing.

We are constantly accused by older folks of being "entitled" and so we get very angry when we see those same people acting entitled themselves.

[dilby]

67. It's ok you guys don't show up to vote anyways.

Besides any Millennial who would vote Republican over a Democrat would not be swayed with a more Liberal candidate. The argument that someone would rather vote Republican over a moderate Democrat makes absolutely no sense. How does that even work, it's like saying if I don't get a 100% Liberal I am going to vote for someone who is 0% Liberal.

[SHRED]

76. it makes zero sense

More like a temper tantrum.

[dilby]

96. Hopefully we won't have their moms showing up telling us how

unless we accommodate their little snowflakes they will sue us.

[Odin2005]

228. Keep on insulting us, bro.

That will bring us to the polls...

[dilby]

249. I get it, you think you are special and that your vote makes more of a difference

than everyone who has voted before you. But your vote is worth just as much as mine a generation X'er or the Baby Boomers before me. Go ahead and throw your tantrum and not vote (like that matters) or vote Republican and enjoy your self punishment. I don't need you to show up to the polls if you think I need to vote based on your sheltered view of the world.

[Maedhros]

435. Your posts are very annoying and lack substance.

/ignore.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

268. Too bad the Helicopter Moms don't haul their asses to the polls.

At least during the non-sexy midterms.

[SHRED]

72. Yeah but do the Millennials even vote?

[DonCoquixote]

325. way to go

often the ones that sleep pat the crack pof noon are working two jobs because your frtiends the Clintons gave away the store in the 90's, allowing Glass-Stegall and the Telecommuncations act to be gutted. Yet if they voted your way, you would eithe praise them, or, as if more likely, take credit and think that the divine Boomer generation should be venerated forever!

[bravenak]

326. Thank you very much!!

I swear some want us to ass kiss them for the crappy situation we are in. Because before we ever existed things were awesome!!! Then Reagan happened. Then we were born. We have never lived in that liberal dream world and we have nobody that seems concerned about us.

I should get on my knees and thank them for everything.

Thank you all for Reagan! And thanks for welfare reform! And thanks for dadt! Thanks for letting the banks be too big to fail! Thanks for the housing bubble! Thanks for the Prison State! Thanks for the Drug War that Targets Youths and Blacks!! Thanks for being liberal Drug warriors! Thanks for calling us Lazy when we work 2 minimum wage jobs at 80 hours a week and still can't afford rent! Thanks for looking down on us! Thanks for letting wages stagnate as you moved up in the world! Thank for the police with tanks! Thanks for the Iraq war! Thanks for the Afganistan War! Thanks for blaming us for not voting for people who like to put us in jail for drugs that they never worried about going to jail for since they didn 't have the massive dea presence they paid so much money for us to have! Thanks for the for profit prisons that enslave the prisoners of the drug war! Thanks for not funding schools very well!!! Thanks for the debt!! Thank you thank you thank you!!!

It's definately us that is the problem. Millenials screwed everybody else over by not voting for that.^^^

[Bluenorthwest]

387. The following ballot question was on my second ever ballot as a young person. It explains why I vote

"Prohibit gays and supporters of gay rights from teaching in public schools- Yes or No"

That was Briggs Amendment, CA Prop 6.

So that was what was on my ballot. I've never regretting casting a ballot in my life. I hope today's youth will never have to see a ballot measure which specifically calls out a minority group for abuse like I had to see about my own people.

[bravenak]

392. I remember that.

I stayed pissed at black churches for that.

[DonCoquixote]

493. would you consider making this reply an op?

It is worthy, thanks to beign so so true.

[bravenak]

498. Sure.

But I don't think anybody will want to see it. Or they will hate me. I'll do it right now, I welcome hate. It's theraputic.

[minivan2]

92. I will vote for whoever is the nominee and I'm younger than you.

Even if it's Hillary, anybody is better than who the repukes choose.

[Spazito]

104. +1

The Millennials I have worked with are like you, they get it. Many worked long hours for candidates, their enthusiasm, creativity and boundless energy was delightful.

[Odin2005]

115. Oh, I will vote, too, don't get me wrong.

But not all Millennials have the same stomach for holding their noses.

[chrisa]

95. +one million and a few shiny pennies

Hilary is awful, but is truly hated by millennials. Yes, there are exceptions, but most of us wish she would just go away and let someone who has new ideas come in. We want someone to energize us. Obama did for a while, and then flopped.

That line of thinking may be naive and unrealistic, give how the Presidency is a multi-millionaires' club, but there's hope for someone new.

[Maedhros]

437. There is nothing wrong with demanding that one's vote be EARNED rather than EXPECTED.

I think Millennials are right to demand results from elected officials.

[Rowdyboy]

108. I'm over twice your age and in very poor health so your generation will suffer the consequences

for decades longer than I will. Two or three more Alitos on the Supreme Court will seal the conservative deal for the rest of your life. Healthcare gutted, social security "privatized", the end of the pathetic safety net that still exists, the total destruction of public schools, abortion rights are all on the line.

I don't know who the Democratic party will nominate and don't much care-any of them will have my vote. In 1976 I thought Jimmy Carter was too conservative; in 1984 I wanted Gary Hart instead of Mondale and in 1988 I knew Dukakis was a lost cause. In 2004 I liked Wes Clark and in 2008 John Edwards. The only nominee I ever really liked was Bill Clinton and he wound up an enormous disappointment.

My point in all this drivel is that you can wait your whole life and never have a candidate you really want nominated. You have to weigh what matters most to you-issues or personality. Someone is going to win in 2016 and the effects on your entire generation for the next 40 years will be enormous. Wish I was more optimistic

[Bohunk68]

378. All that and I'm still waiting for the revolution to begin.

And now, my soulmate is gone, before we could've gotten married. And, I still don't have a candidate that I can really really get behind. We just had a great candidate for Congress and he got whomped by the Rethuglican Teabagger, partly through playing the homophobic card. I got in a huge argument with a person on fb 'cause they said he should just pack his bags and go back to his husband. We have defriended, good, I knew she was a homophobe years ago. But, that aside, the local Democratic organisation did nothing to support his candidacy and some of those who would usually be at the Annual Dem Picnic were not there. He got little support and was a candidate who spoke to the issues.

[flamingdem]

110. What have Millenials done for us lately that we'd cater leadership towards them?

They didn't vote in the midterms much.

I remember pulling teeth to get people at the local community college to even register.

Being the Dev. Adv. but truly, instead of complaining about Hillary why not actually accomplish something?

At least the Boomers made sure the world changed when they were young.

[Odin2005]

121. We Millennials are very active in the campaign finance reform WolfPAC movement.

http://www.wolf-pac.com

[flamingdem]

147. That looks great. My suggestion to you is

that you recognize the old divide and conquer strategy.

If you've done political work of the activist kind this should be apparent - why alienate groups that can be your allies?

Ageism is not a way to gain allies or win any struggle, it's as nasty as racism in politics.

[dilby]

123. Don't you know they are the generation of special.

Their parents have done everything possible to make sure they got everything they wanted with minimal effort and now they think it applies to the real world.

[Odin2005]

230. You need to get out more, because you obviously don't knowe enough Millennials.

The "special snowflakes" are a minority of privileged middle class Millennials.

[bravenak]

140. We are adults that grew up under Reagan thanks to y'all.

Is that what you did for us?
Why do we owe our parent votes so they can continue to ignore us. We got nothing for 2008 and 2012 except told to wait.
We are hitting our thirties now. Calling us lazy and indicating you don't need us won't help you.
Wanna keep losing? Change nothing and continue to bash us. We remember.

[flamingdem]

161. You're carrying on in the same way as the poster did

A real nah nah nah sound to your tone.

My point to the other poster who wrote a civil and meaningful reply was that activists have to avoid divide and conquer.

This is 101 in politics. So basic.

The power is in organizing and alliances and that's the challenge. I am sad for anyone with college debt and think that's especially wrong but I see here a tendency to ignore history and struggle that's been going on and a superficial analysis of the situation. Who can afford to be racist or ageist in these times?

[bravenak]

178. The point of activism is to upset the status quo.

Not to go along with the party line.
We have concerns, and ignoring them does not help the party grow. It seems like some people expect votes they have not earned and want to blame the people they have not earned them from for the losses.
The party always tried to entice moderates or independents and work for the union vote or the senior vote. We just Expect the youth vote and the Obama vote and the black vote. We will not get it by blaming or deriding or ignoring those segments of our base.

Millenials got stuff we needed on our ballot after the party failed to do anything or pay us any attention. Minimum wage tied to inflation? Done! Anti union law repealed? Done! Protect our Salmon? Done! Cannabis prohibition ended? Done! The people walking around getting signatures? Millenials! We got rightwingers to sign and vote for liberal policy. We will get older and vote more and become likely voters. The party will be left in the dust unless the welcome us and our IDEAS with open arms. Not divide and conquer, just reality.

A party only lasts as long as it represents enough people to keep it viable.

[flamingdem]

210. A win is a win and it sounds like you do work within the system

HIllary equals a very likely win for the Democrats. That's a starting point because a Republican win means no point to start from and zero progress on issues for young or old.

Remember the poster started by attacking Hillary who is a winner. If there are other winners let them show their stuff and get the numbers. The generations have to be united due to our nemesis, the Republican party.

It's pretty straightforward. I've been saying it for years here but people are still about attacking our own rather than going after them. As we just saw, they do have power in spite of being ridiculous. They will control the future for Millenials to the extent given them by Millenials who want to cut off their noses to spite their faces .. kind of the same occurred with Latinos whose resentment made some stay home last week. Thanks, not, for the stupid way to make a point.

[bravenak]

265. Got rid of the repug governor too.

Got an independent, but hey! Better that what we had. Might let Obama care go through now.
Best bet for beating republicans is to shore up the base and get them on the same side. So, that mean we have to bring the young in. So we have to include Millennials concerns or they will just keep putting measures on the ballot and ignoring us. We have been neglecting our base to get moderate candidates who the 'smart people' think are electable. They are not winning. New strategy needed for the computer age.

[flamingdem]

322. I totally agree

Cool about the repug gov. Agree about the base and the mistakes that were made with moderates. If there was a silver lining it's that, good bye dinos.

Also agree about technology, it helped Obama get elected then they dropped it pretty much. Now it needs to be super innovative to draw in people who live on their phones.

[Legalequilibrium78]

205. Oh please!!! stop making your damn self so damn important

Blaming folks who voted for Ronald Reagan as the cause to your current predicament is so freaking lame and lazy. Who the heck are you to be accorded and afforded some kind of special credence or status within this political discussion/forum. Your vote, any of the baby boomers vote, are all equal.

None is greater than the other, instead of holding yourself as some arbiter of the direction of this country (which reeks of extreme narcissistic arrogance) by being divisive, become the force that you think that you are. Create the avenue, a path so that for those of us blindly following along the corporate narrative will be suaded to see and realized your vision for this country that all of us love and cherish.

Just don't be a dick about it.

[bravenak]

226. I AM fucking important.

That person wanted to know what we have done for older folks. I told them what older folks did for us. Find a non fact in that.

I make my own status and I actually have to live here for another 50 or so years so I want my concerns and the concerns of my children heard right now, not after everybody else gets theirs.
People complaining and calling us lazy and being quite nasty about broad brushing my generation should expect to have it returned in kind. We own nobody nothing vote wise. If our vote are wanted by the party then they better get to cracking putting our stuff on the agenda, cause we are much worse off than you all were at our age, paywise, debt wise, and job security wise. And we are a big generation and we will have more and more of us turning 18 everyday.

Us older Millennials are setting the political compass up for our generation, want us with you? Listen to our concerns and give us a reason to come out for you. Otherwise, we will continue getting our stuff on the ballot and passing it while Democrats lose. And we will pass it. Like we just did.

We are tired of your police state. It was not us who got that going, but it is us who are the targets. So why are dems still drug warriors? To get the youth vote? The black vote? The hispanic vote?
We are tired of dems going along with conservative policies and telling us to shit up and vote for the people pushing the policies that hurt us. Just because the republicans will hurt us worse. I'm a rip the bandage off type myself. And its worse to be hurt by the person you voted for than the person you didn't.

[Legalequilibrium78]

263. Here in lies the problem of the kind of mentality you and

your like minded folks have. You do feel that you are entitled to have something without working hard to achieve that of which we all want in this life. I am non- native born to this country. I am from a 3rd world asian country, I have seen, experienced, lived the kind of hardships none of your ilks have probably experienced nor would wish to experience in this lifetime. I am also a millenial born in 1984, but this coinage only applies to those like you who were born in this country.

I become tired and sick of these constant negativism about this country, as if it is somehow beyond repair, really? Your behaviour and the behaviours of your contemporaries reek of hubris, we did not achieve the progress and yes there were, are accomplishments that have been achieved continuously. Your folks generation and the previous generations before theirs fought for, worked hard for the very foundation of achievements you seemed to sneer at as if they are nothing. If you want something badly enough in your life work like hell and fight for it. Stop blaming the generation before us as sole responaible for the current political, social, and economic
status of the country.

Provide the ideas, then fight and work hard to make your ideas you deemed worthy or worthwhile. Instead of being a child about it by eschewing older folks as well as being divisive. United we stand divided we fall.

[bravenak]

274. We work hard every fucking day.

You don't know of what you speak. My people were brought here to work for free in chains. So I owe nothing to anybody.

I decide whats important to me and what to do. And I have decided it is long past time for young black folks to speak up and speak out against all the bullshit we go through here in our hostage land. So, great, you came here and are accepted. I've been here my whole life and I am still a lesser than. Always told I'm too young, too black to have a voice and demand what I want like others are ALLOWED to do without being looked down on.
I am tired of being tone trolled and told to pipe down and say things nicely. While those who look like me are locked up, harassed, searched, discriminated , imprisoned, forced to labor for the prison system, held to a higher standard due to skin color, etc.

So, what the fuck do you know about me and my life that makes you think you should be audacious enough to mind my fucking business?

[Legalequilibrium78]

294. Speak your mind and have at it

just speak for yourself only, and stop acting like you are the sole or supreme spokesperson for the opressed or under represented minorities. Your experience and struggles in life has somewhat made you jaded. For every struggling minorities out there, there are also countless that have succeeded, are succeeding and will succeed; despite of their current respective predicaments.

If you look for gov't. to solve some structural problems within every facets of our lives then nothing ever good will come out of it. I do not say this to support the notion that gov't. has no place in facillitating the right conditions for everybody to be able to partake and participate on the fruits of this country. As President Obama once said in his speech "Be the change that you want this country to be." I might not be Black or Latino but I do come from a minority within the minority and that is from the Asian community.

I am keenly aware of the varying degrees of experience we face daily in both of our respective communities. I have experienced racist jokes and sentiments but I do not let that affect the way I look at myself, my worth or value as an individual, nor do I let it affect me on valuing this awesome and great country. For as long as the founding principles of this country exist, the fight for a more perfect union will continue to live on. That is worth fighting and dying for without sounding too corny about it.

[bravenak]

297. Where did I ever claim to represent everybody?

Have fun with your straw-manning. It's boring. You wanna talk about me and my personality? Enjoy. I will wait until somebody wants to discuss way to increase our numbers. I always do my civic duty. I want the party to draw in new voters, to do that we need new policies.
I never look to government to solve my problems or even to be fair quite frankly. I know that hard truths are necessary to move the needle and change the game. Quiet and nice don't do diddly. Change takes force. And i am growing strong in my conviction and worldview, and I am in the right.

Things I wanted got on my ballot and passed. I would like the democratic party to win when I win.
I want the best for everyone. Some people can't articulate their points or anger , but I can. I say these things so that others thinking them will feel comfortable speaking their minds too. Who knows how many people read what I write and feel like somebody is speaking their mind? I would guess there are one or two. And that makes me feel connected to humanity.

[Niko]

149. Yeah, boomers changed the world all right...

They changed it for the worse. Thanks for Reagan. Thanks for pollution and climate change. Thanks for deregulation. Thanks for all that war. Yes, war. Boomers may have been against it when they were young, but they sure as hell have been all for it when we, the millennials, are the ones who have to go fight it.

Oh, and that retirement income that you're going to need? Guess who pays for it.

[flamingdem]

165. It's not all black and white unless your brain can only handle a couple of ideas

at once.

These kind of generation wars are really lame and tiring. Superficial at best.

It's a favorite these days to bash Boomers and doesn't help a bit considering many are struggling financially and had everything to do with improving things and nothing to do with Republican damage.

[Maedhros]

441. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye,

but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

You say:

What have Millenials done for us lately that we'd cater leadership towards them?

and then claim:

These kind of generation wars are really lame and tiring. Superficial at best.

[Enthusiast]

551. We already paid for that retirement income several times over.

This boomer voted against Reagan twice.

[Maedhros]

438. It's not the Millennials job to do anything for candidates!

It's the CANDIDATE'S JOB to deliver for the voters.

Our entire electoral mindset is backwards.

[Shemp Howard]

116. Odin2005, you are right on!

Last edited Sun Nov 9, 2014, 11:27 PM - Edit history (1)

If the Democrats nominate Hillary, or are otherwise careless, they will drive a good number of millennials right into the arms of the Rand Paul libertarians.

None of my younger friends and relatives are excited about Hillary. None of them! But yep, they talk a lot (and I mean a lot) about Rand Paul and his father, the semi-kooky Ron Paul.

There is no interest for Hillary, Romney, etc. Whatever idealistic support they had for Obama has evaporated.

The next Democrat star had better be liberal in the original sense of the word, or the millennials will drift away.

[Odin2005]

136. The Libertarian idiots are doing a good job catering to Millennial issues.

The Paul-turds became a thing exactly because RP was criticizing the Iraq War and pushing for legalizing marijuana. They are doing a good job channeling Millennial anger towards the banks towards fatuous "End The Fed" BS.

[Shemp Howard]

244. War, Banks, Marijuana

Millennials hate war, and they hate banks. And they are, shall we say, not so very much against marijuana. That's a libertarian trifecta.

So where is Hillary on all this? She voted for war. Let me say that again. She voted for war. And her corporate past has strongly identified her with banking and other monied interests.

If she weren't Bill's wife, she'd make an acceptable Republican nominee. I see that, and many millennials do too.

[Odin2005]

248. You got it, Shemp!

And plus, she and her fellow Boomer culture warriors seem to think pot is the devil.

[hrmjustin]

119. I am 36 and all my friends younger and older support Hillary.

[Logical]

300. LOL, statistically I would say that's almost impossible. Exaggerating much? Nt

[hrmjustin]

302. that was kind of the point but yes most support Hillary

[Rhiannon12866]

323. I agree that here in New York she has a great deal of support

She had overwhelming support as senator and that hasn't changed. She certainly has the experience and the knowledge, even more now since she was an extremely effective SoS.

[whereisjustice]

122. Hillary is a horrible, horrible choice. There is a class war being waged and she is

on the wrong side of that war. Working families deserve better.

The middle class is being farmed like animals by the people Hillary Clinton represents.

[politicaljunkie41910]

125. I guess I'm one of those middle-aged women you speak of who happens to have a son who's a Millennial

and will soon be 26 years old, 2 years younger than you are. He's got a job; could be a better one, but he graduated from college and he's got a job. He sure in the hell doesn't have the time to spend on this board racking up over 48,000 posts. What are you doing that's productive but bitching and moaning about Hillary Clinton on a website?

Just like a lot of people here, they don't want to do any legwork. They just want to complain.

[Le Taz Hot]

353. Excuse me but how do uou know

what "a lot of people here" do? The answer is, you don't. And DU's been around since 2001 so in 13, almost 14 years now, it's not difficult to rack up 48,000+ posts.

[politicaljunkie41910]

536. So you're suggesting that he's been around here since he was 14 years old? He was the one who said

in his post that he is 28 years old. So look before you leap to conclusions. And for the record, I've been around for at least the past 13-14 years but didn't get around to setting up an account and begin posting comments because I didn't have the time to sit around racking up 48000 posts. I came here to keep current on the issues and see what was driving the news cycle for the day, since some of us have to work for a living and don't have time, during working hours to run up thousands of posts.

[Le Taz Hot]

548. You seem to have some kind of axe to grind

so I'm not going to waste time countering every point. But keep in mind just because you "have to work for a living and don't have time, during working hours to run up thousands of posts" doesn't mean other people don't work just as hard but may just be more prolific. Some people are disabled. Some are underemployed. Some work from home on their own schedules. So what? The point is that you are passing judgment without knowing individual circumstances.

[C Moon]

127. I don't like the idea of gimme or I don't vote, but I'd be up for another candidate...

I don't mind Hillary, but I wasn't impressed with her in the 2008 primaries, and don't feel confident she could win against say, Jeb.
Someone new on the horizon would be brilliant.
But I have no names to offer. :/

[ucrdem]

129. What do you think of Corey Booker?

Would having him on the ticket help?

[Odin2005]

150. Centrist empty suit. Same with O'Malley.

[ucrdem]

158. Not gonna ask about Biden and Holder . . .

Anyhow thanks

[BlueEye]

179. O'Malley is a centrist empty suit??

Okay, I'm calling bullshit on that one. The man is very progressive.

[MisterP]

130. plus, y'know, she supports policies that would cause rioting in the streets if a Pub passed them

[deurbano]

131. Not according to recent polling.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/10/hillary-clinton-millennials-poll

Millennials Love Hillary Clinton Now
—By Patrick Caldwell| Thu Oct. 9, 2014 2:56 PM EDT

But, it's early.

[abelenkpe]

159. 1200 telephone interviews with "likely" millenials

They didn't even know if they were talking to millenials. A phone poll....because so many millenials have land lines? Or answer numbers they don't recognize? It would be a collosal mistake to think this poll or any phone poll measures what anyone under age 55 thinks.

[deurbano]

225. I think it means millennials "likely to vote," not likely to be millennials.

Fusion is a network targeting millennials.

Clinton would not be my first choice, and I am not invested in this poll being right, but it is probably closer to (current) reality than the opinions of friends and acquaintances.

[Logical]

301. Just like the same pulling that showed Hillery 25 points ahead of Obama? LOL! nt

[deurbano]

316. Take it up with Fusion.

Just a poll. It's early.

[Chathamization]

375. It's silly to think a poll of 1200 done by a polling firm accurately reflects the views of

millennials. Obviously, my imperfect memory of the off-hand remarks made by the 15 people I hang out with does a much better job at reflecting the feelings of all millennials.

Or something...

[raindaddy]

135. I'm quite a bit older than you and I feel the same!

[abelenkpe]

137. Gen X

Woman here. I want Warren or Sanders. Agree that my millennial friends and co workers are not Hillary fans and nominating her would not go over well. We'll see what happens though...

[JustAnotherGen]

367. I'm like you

Not so sure about Warren or Sanders - but in my circle it's hard to find Clinton fans.

What's funny - so many of my girlfriends (I lived in NY State in 2000) - we were volunteers on her Senate campaign.

What's gone off the rails here? Maybe it's not Millenials - maybe it's the cynics who seem to be doing okay financially (that's not a blanket statement but many of us HAVE benefited from the Tech boom/growth business in terms of careers) looking up and saying -

I've got to put kids in college in ten years, worry about my retirement/health AND now they want to send our parents to the Cat Food store for dinner every night?

The best thing the boomers and millenials have got is us. We give a shit about our parents and silent generations (my parents had a slight age difference so I grew up with both) social security -

But we also care about our own. Who is SUPPOSED to have a good job to fund mine? The Millenials.


We need infrastructure jobs, green jobs, fair and equitable pay, and opportunities for young people. . . and to shore up SS and Medicare for older Americans.

[LiberalArkie]

139. as a kid, it was the Kennedys who got me interested in politics, otherwise I probably would

have never voted. The young do not wanted to vote for someone almost 70, probably prefer someone closer to 40 would get them turned on.

[bhikkhu]

141. She wins 2-1 with young people 18-29

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/12/hillary-clinton-wins-high-popularity-majority-support-for-a-2016-bid/

...so while the anecdote may be true in your local, it is generally not true around the country, according to the polls so far.

[Calista241]

166. That was right after she retired from the State Department, over 2 years ago.

The problem with messiah politics, is when your party doesn't have a messiah to bring out the voters.

Millions of people came out and voted for Obama who had never voted before. That was the reason we won both elections in 2008 and 2012. Frankly it was the reason i got involved in paying attention to politics. The pictures of Obama in front of thousands and thousands of people, inspiring them with his vision is a memory that i will have forever.

Will Hillary bring out the same fanaticism and commitment from new voters that Obama did? I have my doubts, most recently exhibited by her failure to get almost anyone elected in 2014 despite her massive investment in time and effort.

[AtomicKitten]

171. Your polling is dated December 2012.

Her approval rating now is under 50% and is and has been trending down.

Latest WPJ/NBC poll has her at 43%.
HuffPost Pollster aggregate has her at 49%.

[onenote]

317. here's one from July 2014

And there are others.

The OP's statement is self-centered nonsense. The fact the people he/she knows would rather vote for a repub than Clinton (or not vote or toss away their vote in some other way) says more about the people the OP knows and hangs out with than millennial in general. Indeed, anyone who extrapolates from their limited universe of acquaintances into a national result is clueless.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/florida/release-detail?ReleaseID=2063

[meti57b]

154. With regret, ...... I concur.

[LiberalFighter]

155. Your peers need to campaign and get out the vote in your state primaries or caucuses.

[Legalequilibrium78]

157. Yeah okay there, don't try and speak for the entire group

Of your generation. I could equally cite my own anecdotal experience that almost all I know that are of my age and younget (30-24) are positive and bouyant about Hillary's candidacy. State your damn opinion but don't act or pretend like you speak for the rest of us, like all groups we have a large swat of diverging ideas and opinions. Hillary's candidacy is one of these issues.

[BlueEye]

169. I am 21 and most of my peers (who are Dems) like Hillary Clinton a lot.

To each their own I guess. Neither of our observations are very scientific.

[NotHardly]

181. re Hillary

OK... but why do they despise Hilary?
It might be important for them to know that 3rd party votes support the worse candidate (e.g. Green, Independent, etc.) for the simple reason that it simply divides the vote and other than give satisfaction to the individual, it usually means that a George Bush will win rather than a non-Bush type. As for voting Republican, sure, when pouting one can always do something that will feel like waving a middle finger in the wind... but then, such voting might only reap the whirlwind (so to speak).

I would assume that from what you are saying that most of your Peers listen to way to much Rush Limbaugh (sp) and right wing talking points. I see that as a cautionary sign and not necessarily indicative of whatever divide labeling propagandists who through around divisive commentary (Mills, Boomers, Gens, ect.) might aspire to, it neither serves us as citizens or discerning voters.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

182. By the way isn't Hillary's daughter a millennial

totally lose the millennial vote lol ! Nobody seemed to understand why it was millennials didn't vote back in 04 ! Is everybody form back than now nobodies kicked aside by ya-all ?
LOL.

Nobody wants to lose the millennial vote but some people remember when it wasn't even there.Power is after all in the numbers and there just isn't enough of ya to tow the barge.

That means everybody counts.

[Odin2005]

193. Chelsea is near the end of Generation X.

the oldest Millennials were born in 1982.

[tammywammy]

231. There are varying starts anywhere from 1980-1984. n/t

[Odin2005]

238. I follow the Strauss and Howe definition of 1982.

They coined the term "Millennial Generation" back in their book Generations in 1991.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

275. Yes, I suppose you are correct !

The end of generation x than would be somewhere inbetween lol .

[JEB]

183. I am 63 and agree.

Not much to vote for.

[jalan48]

187. Energy

I don't know where Hillary would get the energy for the Presidential grind. She'll be 70. I wonder if she will even run. What would be the point? Just to say she was the first female President? If so, bad idea.

[The Green Manalishi]

188. Anyone who goes to a party honoring that war criminal Kissinger

Is no one I can support (except in the general, DOH).

[ucrdem]

194. Well, Warren is ready, but if she gets the nom, the Clintons aren't going to be happy.

So there's that. But I'll support whoever gets it.

[MirrorAshes]

196. 33 here, and work with a lot of 20-somethings

Most of whom see Hillary as being no different than your average republican. I try to remind them to vote for the SCOTUS if nothing else, but Hillary is severely off-putting.

We got excited for Obama. With the way the rest of the Democratic Party has carried themselves though, there is zero confidence in the party as a whole.

There is optimism for Warren and Sanders, but the party as a whole needs to get their shit together if you want younger people to take any amount of pride in calling themselves a Democrat.

[Stryder]

197. I'll not

I'll not vote for Hillary. I'll be there and do what I can for congress...
But I'll not cast a vote for exec. Voted for Jimmy Carter with my first
pull of the lever.(Seriously' you closed the curtain behind you and it
opened when you pulled the big "Cast Your Vote Now" lever.) She's well
groomed and ready to go. She don't need my vote.

[onehandle]

206. Most of your peers have no awareness of politics at all.

And will not vote in 2016.

[Odin2005]

207. So you know my peers, huh?

Say hi to Laura and Jarred for me!

[Rex]

216. Those pesky mind readers.

I wonder if they do lotto picks?

[Odin2005]

235. LOL!

[Rex]

212. Great message there, that will pull in the youth vote.

Then maybe do something about it? Since you are aware, seems like you are duty bound now.

[Union Scribe]

260. I think I saw your car the other day

The one with the "Get off my lawn and vote Hillary!" sticker right?

[Dr Hobbitstein]

211. I'm a millenial (born 1980). Most of my friends are as well.

We're all Democrats, and we all vote for the nominee. If Hillary is the nominee, she will have our vote. None of my Dem friends would EVER vote Republican, because there's a fucking HUGE difference.

If your asshole friends vote Republican over Hillary (if she becomes the nominee), then they were never Democrats to begin with. If they don't vote, then they're just like the rest of the assholes who stayed home Tuesday. Lazy, entitled whiners.

[tammywammy]

229. Same here, also born in 1980.

I will also say I work with a lot of millennials who have no awareness about politics.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

237. I work with one.

He's clueless. He seems quite liberal, but he has NO idea what the fuck he's talking about.

[tammywammy]

241. There are at least 15 right around me at work.

My officemate didn't even realize there was an election going on. The other are more concerned with college football, how their fantasy football team is doing and where happy hour is going to be.

[SidDithers]

276. Well said...nt

Sid

[RBInMaine]

214. Warren isn't running. Who do you want who can WIN?

[pnwmom]

218. My daughter loves Hillary and she's your peer. You only speak for yourself

and she only speaks for herself.

But if you want to sit by and watch the Republicans trash the environment and steal even more from the 99%, that's your decision.

[RKP5637]

220. The problem I have with Hillary is it seems the SOS. This country is in dire need of a new

transformation and a leftward movement. I think Hillary will keep the status quo and I don't think that is going to work too well in the 21st century.

[whereisjustice]

224. The 3rd way and DNC believe they can fuck over liberals and still win elections. From DNC

perspective, this was just a one time glitch (again). They believe their strategy of Wall Street amnesty, spying on families, fracking, patriot act, etc is bullet proof and just like after the 2010 blow out, the DNC is going to double down.

With heir apparent Hillary on deck, they are past the point of no return.

It's going to get ugly. Maybe it's time for liberals to plan protests in front of DNC headquarters demanding change.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

233. Yup. And she feels she DESERVES to be President.

[Odin2005]

240. And yet it's MY generation that gets called "entitled".

[hrmjustin]

242. Hillary never said she was entitled to be president.

[Odin2005]

246. No, she and her sychophants just act like she is.

[hrmjustin]

247. How does she act like it? be specific.

[Odin2005]

252. They all assume that she is the "INEVITABLE" candidate...

...and we are duty-bound to follow our dear Queen Hillary off the cliff.

[hrmjustin]

255. that is not anwering my question.

How does she act like she is entitled?

[Odin2005]

258. Remember 2008?

[hrmjustin]

259. I mean now. Yes she acted confident but so did Obama.

You made an accusation that she acts entitled to the presidency so please back it up.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

264. Which is kinda weird since everyone says things are tougher.

[tammywammy]

236. Anyone that with vote a republican over a Democratic nominee of Hillary Clinton

Wasn't a democrat in the first place.

And if they're really concerned she'll get the nomination, then they need to get off their asses during primary season.

[DeSwiss]

245. It's the system.

It's always been the system. It'll always be the system. Until we replace it.

- You can't ''fix'' a corrupt system, with the corrupt people who make it up still in-power within it, and who benefit from it staying the way it is......






[center]''Sending a ''Hoper and Changer'' to Washington to reform it, is like
sending a vestal virgin to a whorehouse in order to turn it into a church.''[/center]

[Odin2005]

250. Great analogy!

[SoapBox]

257. Man, this post is all over the planet.

I cannot get excited at all about Hillary.

I also don't think she can win...she is Hillary...she's a Clinton...and she's a woman.

The Pukes and Baggers will pour bazillions of dollars into a No Clinton campaign...then there is just a deep, deep hatred that will seriously rally the crazy.

We need a candidate that can actually win.

[ucrdem]

261. Depends. If she pulls in red states, that's a plus.

Blue states? She'll win those. Purples? Depends on who she runs against. So even though she might be unpopular she might still be a winner. A lot remains to be seen tho.

[Midwestern Democrat]

279. I don't think any Democrat - not even Bill Clinton - would pull in red states today.

We can't even elect governors, senators and congressmen in those states who have the freedom to declare their independence from the national party. I don't really see the Democratic electoral map expanding from 2012 unless the GOP nominates somebody who's not seen as a plausible president (i.e. Ted Cruz).

[ucrdem]

285. It's gonna be a very tough race for whoever gets it, no question there.

If HRC can pull it off, great. I don't see how the demographics make it possible but having Bill's endorsement might help.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

554. Having Bill's endorsement didn't help the black gubernatorial candidate from... MARYLAND.

Didn't help Kay Hagan in NC, either. Dems sat out.

Bush fatigue. Clinton fatigue. Americans have it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

310. The Republicans used racism against Obama in the red states

They'd use sexism against Hillary, and it would be just as effective.

[ucrdem]

314. Well, she'd probably win Arkansas barring major blunders.

And if she gets both Bill and Barack stumping for her, along with every other popular Dem including Warren, she might have a chance to win Barack's red and purple states. But then there's the voting problem which has gotten even worse, so yeah it's a very slim chance. But at this point it's hard to see anyone else having even that much.

[LeftInTX]

324. The pukes and baggers will pour bazillions no matter who is the nominee

They will hate whoever we nominate

[Not a Fan]

272. Interesting point

And there might be something to it. My three kids, thirty and two twenty-somethings don't dislike her at all though. Don't know about their friends.

Warren would fire them up though. She'll fire everyone up - even the republicans who would be terrified she'd be elected.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

278. I'm a Boomer, and I do not want Hillary Clinton as nominee

Think about it, Why are the MSM acting as if she has the nomination sewn up?

They've been talking about her as a shoo-in for the nomination since 2008.

It's because they WANT her to be the nominee. It's a win-win situation for them. During the campaign, they can rally their troops with sexism instead of racism, but at the same time, if she wins, they will have a corporatist to do their bidding.

[billhicks76]

281. Agreed

Hillary is not a good Democrat. I can't stand her and most people feel the same way. She is too close with the Bush family too and another Bush/Clinton election would be repulsive and destroy the last chance at hope and change.

[ballyhoo]

283. I'm a Boomer, actually born on the first

day of Boomers, and I will not vote for Hillary Clinton. I believe she is right-wing lite and would be a disaster for Democrats who will not need a disaster. But it is still a relatively long way off. The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if there was no 2016 Presidential election at all.

[MissDeeds]

286. I a m a baby boomer

and there is no way I will vote for Hillary.

[scarletwoman]

291. I'm a boomer - born in 1949 - and I do not want Hillary Clinton to be the nominee, either. nt

[Logical]

303. She pulled herself out of poverty. Doesn't that count for something? Nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

307. Hillary grew up in poverty? No way!

Her family was solidly middle class.

Bill grew up in poverty.

[Logical]

309. It was a joke..........

From a statement she made about when she left the White House they almost didn't have very much money because the lawsuits. It was ridiculous statement to make.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/hillary-clinton-my-family-was-dead-broke-when-we-left-the-white-house-9519236.html

[davidpdx]

333. Damn that's where my teeth went

When were you going to return them to me?

[davidpdx]

335. Well you better go in after them sunny

*talks with no teeth* I can't talk on just my gums

[TBF]

306. Older Gen-X female here -

Last edited Mon Nov 10, 2014, 08:55 AM - Edit history (1)

She is not my fave but I wouldn't vote for a repug over her due to womens reproductive choice issues. But NAFTA about killed unions in this country and TPP will finish the job. I think we need a better plan than Hillary.

[Kalidurga]

308. I'm voting for Al Franken in the primaries...

even we are not successful in drafting him.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

312. It comes down to choice.

Age I think is just a state of mind. So here it is, you can vote for the candidate,you can vote for the other side or some other option, or you can choose not to vote. There it is.
And those are the choices.
Change is what you work toward and thats in it for the long haul.
It isn't always about you in your time.
And thats the hard part about it.

[DawgHouse]

318. Nah, you don't speak for a whole generation.

Just like I don't speak for all middle-aged women. My 28 year old son will vote for HRC if she's the nominee, just like his friends will. They'll campaign, knock and door and make phone calls, just like they did for President Obama.

It's really insulting for you to say that you only see people wanting HRC because of the symbolism of the first woman president. But I'm sure you already knew that.

[GusBob]

320. i think jeb bush will be a better president too nt

[moondust]

328. Strive for perfection.

But don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[joshcryer]

329. She'll speak to issues millennials care about.

They'll come around.

[BlindTiresias]

331. Same, OP

I've had center-left friends of mine go into extensive tirades about how "inauthentic" and "predatory" she is. From what I gather only older orthodox dems like her, which means she is likely who will be supported the most by the party leadership.

[silvershadow]

336. Millennial vote? Hell, I'm 50, and if she's the nominee we will lose me. nt

[treestar]

338. Me and my friends is not a good poll

We'd need a real poll to tell.

And I'm sick of being told we have to beg for those fuckers' votes. Let them stay home and whine.

We'll look for people who are willing to work with us rather than demanders who think they are better than everyone else and should be "served" and have things "delivered" to them.

[Union Scribe]

362. Young people = "those fuckers"

More persuasive GOTV messages! Put it on a lawn sign quick!

[sibelian]

342. "the symbolism of the first woman president more than anything substantial" - YES

It's RIDICULOUS. Myopic garbage! What the fuck has her being female got to do with anything? It's her POLICIES that matter, not her gender.

[djean111]

346. The way the political deck is stacked now, we are supposed to only base

our vote on the letter "D" (shades of Sesame Street).
We are also commanded to outright praise any and all policies of that "D", and any dissension is smacked down as glitter-shitting unicorns or the infantile "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" - when boy, is the definition of what is "good" amazing. Plus we are being told to shut up and vote, and don't think in the same way Faux viewers are.

This is not, IMO, going to work any more.

And anyone who considers being against the TPP, Keystone, lessening Social Security payments, letting Wall Street and corporations plunder at will - as not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good - you have drunk the Kool-Aid.

Edited to add - the infrastructure will create jobs thing - with the TPP, it will actually be illegal to only hire Americans and use American contractors and buy American materials. The contracts have to go all over the world (yes, countries outside of the TPP can buy into that) and the work will go to the lowest bidder, and the money will not stay here.

Lots of current proposals and laws and regulations will be useless when the new and reworked "trade" agreements are in place.

[Le Taz Hot]

350. And another shot across the bow to Boomers

I am a Boomer. I am middle aged (though advancing to old age quickly) and I have friends in the same age range, both male and female. I don't know a single one who likes Hillary. You are wrong in her demographic support. Her support comes from a) The Party Faithful who would vote for limp broccoli if there was a D next to the name and b)Wall Street. That's it. Her support is a mile wide and an inch deep.

And quit dumpin' on the Boomers!

[baldguy]

357. Republicans count on people voting againt their own interest.

That's exactly what you're advocating.

[JustAnotherGen]

358. I'm not seeing lock step and goose step

Amongst Gen Xer's - even older ones (I'm 41) at all.

I see defiance below me, status quo above me and here I am -

Wanting knock down drag out primaries for the President, Senate, and House.



I want it bloody and ugly.


I'd like an election where not one single politician should be feeling secure unless they are in the Senate and not up for re-election in 2016.

But that's the cynical asshole Gen X'er talking.

[merrily]

359. Thanks. I am not a millenial and am female.

If Hillary becomes the nominee, I will seriously consider whether I need to emigrate.

Five DLC types in a row would make me lose hope that the Democatic Party ever turning away from the DLC types; and the Democratic Party has been my hope for politics in this country. If I lose that, I don't know what I'll do.

Going along to get along or more LOTE voting will probably not be an option for me.

[HockeyMom]

365. My Millennial (1984) daughter's first vote was for Hillary

for New York Senator. So how OLD was Hillary then in comparison to my daughter's age back then? Her older sister born in 1979 (cusp of a Millennial) also voted for Hillary for Senator.

I will give you with my Millennial daughter's quote about voting for Cuomo. "ANY Democrat is better than a Republlican". BTW, she did not like Andrew Cuomo, but refused to sit home and have a Republican win.

I am almost old enough to be Obama's MOTHER. So I should not have voted for him? Neither, I, nor my daughters, vote based on AGE. Gender isn't a issue either. We all voted in the Primary for Obama, and not Hillary. My reason for that, even being Hillary's age and gender, was that I thought she was not ready yet to be President.

[justiceischeap]

366. Do the Millennials take the long view on things?

Serious question, I don't know. When I was your age, I did (my first Presidential election was Bill Clinton's first term). I was politically astute enough to know that my actions as a voter affected not just myself but others as well. Now when I look at politicians, the first thing I consider is the Supreme Court and how they'll stack that court with their nominations. I look at that because long after Presidents have come and gone, we'll still likely have their Supreme Court nominees.

I can guarantee you the Republicans and Libertarians want Hillary to run because they believe she will alienate enough people that they'll win by default. Here's the problem of not considering Hillary Clinton as a President because she's DLC--if, say, Ted Cruz gets the nomination and is elected, who will he nominate to the Supreme Court? If Hillary gets the nomination and wins, who will she nominate for the Supreme Court?

For me it's as simple as that--because that nominee could be there for decades deciding the course of our laws for generations to come. Scalia was nominated by Reagan in 1986 and is coincidentally the longest sitting Justice at the moment...how many Presidents have come and gone since then? Who has had a more lasting effect on the American politic? The former President's or Scalia? Scalia has helped give us more pro-Corporate laws than any President ever can and will have the power to do.

Do you support a woman's right to choose? Do you support separation of Church and State? If you do, then looking at what kind of Justice a Presidential Candidate will nominate is just as important as looking at their current politics and the businesses they support (or don't).

I agree we need better candidates and I agree that Hillary isn't my first choice for a candidate (and I'm a middle-aged woman who would love to see the RIGHT first female President)--however if it comes down to Hillary versus some Republican science-denying asshat, I'm going to skip to the polls and happily vote for Hillary because she is NOT going to nominate a Supreme Court Justice who is going to damage this country further.

[cwydro]

371. Millennials vote?

[Shankapotomus]

377. I would love to nominate Warren if she would run but

I have watched the Anti-Hillary group at DU go from "I will grudgingly vote for her if she is nominated" to "if Hillary is the nominee they will either vote Republican, Green, Independent, or just not vote...".

Need I remind everyone of the Terms of Service of DU?:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

Now not only are you openly advocating not voting for a potential democratic nominee (against the terms of service of DU) but you are also advocating voting for Republicans.

This should settle the argument at DU of where these kind of members take us. It starts with just hacking away at the front runner and downplaying any accusations that such talk will lead to losing votes and the election. And, sure enough, it winds up with calls for denying votes to the potential democratic nominee and granting votes to their opponent!

Oh, but you said it would never lead to this! You said such talk would not undermine the democratic nominee's chances! Oh, now you're saying you want to actively prevent Hillary from being elected if she's nominated! Now where did that come from? Why, golly gee, I would have never suspected it would have led to this!

[LWolf]

390. There

are plenty of older generations who aren't happy with idea of HRC as the nominee. Just sayin'.

Of course, those are the frustrated contingent who rarely ever sees a nominee they actually WANT to elect. I'm one of them.

[RedCappedBandit]

395. I'm 27 and my experience is not the same.

Most of my friends who are democrats are in full support of Hillary.

Actually, I'm one of the few who aren't because I'm further to the left than most.

Those who would vote republican are right wing libertarian types and wouldn't vote for any Democratic candidate.

I have to wonder who your progressive friends are who would for for a republican over Hillary. Essentially every politically active at least somewhat progressive friend I have would vote for Hillary in the general election.

[MineralMan]

399. If you want a different candidate, it's time to pick one who is willing

to run and start building support for that candidate. The party nominates the candidate for President. Become the party and you get to nominate who you want. Who's your preferred candidate for President in 2016? It's time to start supporting that specific candidate. Threatening not to vote isn't a winning strategy for getting a different candidate. Activism on the behalf of the one you prefer is what works. It worked in 2008. It can work in 2016. Time to get busy on positive campaiging for someone, I think.

[vi5]

406. I'm 44 and want no part of her candidacy.

Primary, Presidential, or otherwise.

[pnwmom]

409. You and your friends are an echo chamber for each other.

Which is fairly common.

But your group of friends is not predictive of what other 28 year olds are thinking, especially young women in general.

[Historic NY]

411. The thing I find amusing is...

Warren was a Republican,say she voted Republican until 1995. The question if asked is who did you vote for in the 1996 elections? Could pose an interesting answer.

She was a Reagan Republican and a market proponent.

Interesting comments

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/10/24/elizabeth-warren-i-created-occupy-wall-street.html

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

420. Not just Millennials. This pre-boomer is appalled by the thought of another Clinton.

[glinda]

423. I agree. Many realize her affiliations and see no sense in

voting for her also.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

436. "Most of your peers" may live in Berkeley and/or Greenwich Village

But most millennials don't. Nor are most Millennials anywhere near as shallow as you describe your friends to be.

We will have a Democratic presidential primary. Let the most popular candidate win. But whiny little threats about voting for Republicans out of spite really (despite having become the Democratic Underground calling card) is tiresome at best.

If you won't vote for Democrats in the general, leave the Democratic Underground. NOW.

And take your little whiny group of other-generation haters with you.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Odin2005]

573. I live in Fargo, a college town but still solidly purple.

[TM99]

439. I am an older Gen-Xer, and

I definitely do not want Hillary Clinton to be president. Woman or not, she does not represent my politics nor do I believe she is the best candidate for the Democratic Party.

[Android3.14]

445. truth

I'm a young Baby Boomer or old Gen X-er, depending on how you count. Hillary is a waste of time, a non-starter, and a greater and greater number of people are simply dismissing Hillary as a viable candidate.

She is damaged goods. She cannot win.

We need younger people (late 40s to early 60s) in leadership positions. The old guard is a compromised bunch of aging fuddy-duddies too fearful to do anything or already in the pockets of lobbyists.

[Metric System]

448. I'm a millenial and I am Ready for Hillary! Seriously. And I think you do a great disservice to

Hillary and her supporters by chalking up her potential candidacy to symbolism. We believe she is QUALIFIED for the position.

[Ykcutnek]

449. She is popular among Millennials in my area.

We have fond memories of the Clinton administration here in Kentucky.

[Mr.Bill]

450. Millennials probably won't vote in substantial numbers

unless they can vote on Facebook or Twitter.

[raging moderate]

453. Jeb Bush is NOT a moderate.

He was one of the group of neo-cons who were secretly pushing for the US to invade Iraq on false pretenses, back in the 90s.

[bvar22]

501. Jeb Bush may not be a "moderate",

but he can be dressed as one and paraded around the nation as one,
and most will believe it.

[onenote]

458. 450+ posts later, one thing is clear: Hillary will not lose the Millennial vote "completely."

Not even clear she'd lose most of it.

[bravenak]

460. And McCain didn't 'completely' lose the black vote.

[onenote]

465. He did lose most of it

While the polls at this stage aren't terribly reliable and they vary signficantly, I don't recall seeing any that suggest Clinton losing to any other candidate among the 18-29 voters. Thus my comment that nothing in this thread provides any basis for concluding that millenial voters will abandon Clinton "completely" or that even a majority of millenial voters will not support her if she's the nominee.

[bravenak]

480. She will lose some of the young vote and more of the black vote i think.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/08/clinton-touts-support-from-white-americans/

[onenote]

483. I never claimed she would win it all

I said the evidence still suggests that she will win a majority of the millenial voters that turn out. (Turn out is important since even Obama didn't win most of the 18-29 vote when you factor in those who didn't vote). Will she do as well as Obama among the black vote or 18-29 vote? No. But neither will anyone else whose name I've heard suggested as a serious potential challenger for the nomination.

[bravenak]

487. That could mean the difference between running and winning and running and losing.

Without large support from those two groups, we would have lost 08 and 12.

[onenote]

489. So which candidate would do better than her with those groups?

[bravenak]

492. Rand Paul. Not a joke.

This is why I feel so pissed off.

[onenote]

505. Not a chance

Actually, I was asking what potential candidate for the Democratic nomination would outpoll HRC among African American and young voters. And I'm assuming you aren't suggesting Rand Paul is going to make a run for the Democratic nomination. But moving ahead to a general election, Paul v. Clinton is no contest.

African-American voters are not going to be duped by efforts by Paul to run away from his (and his family's) past statements on Civil Rights matters. And despite some fallout from the 2008 campaign, both Bill and Hillary Clinton (particularly Bill) are still popular with African American voters. And if it came down to a choice between Paul and Clinton and Bill and Obama are endorsing her, it would be no contest.

As for young voters, the polls continue to show that Clinton still has a significant advantage over Paul among young voters. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-rand-paul-will-win-over-young-voters-myth/

[bravenak]

506. How do you know Rand Paul won't peel off a good percentage of The black vote or the youth vote?

He is the only one even trying to get those votes. He goes to black neighborhoods all the time. He is doing a 'the prison state is RACIST! Tour' in black communities. I think he can peel off enough to make it a loss for us. My Husband is 32 and prefers Rand over Hillary. He says they are both racist, but at least he shows up. And they agree on the drug war and privacy rights.

[onenote]

508. Again, the issue was whether most African American and young voters would abandon Clinton

I think the answer is no. That doesn't mean that Paul might not do better among those groups than any other repub candidate and maybe shrink our margin among those voters enough to threaten our chances of winning. But that leads back to the other question: which potential Democratic candidate would do better than Clinton among African American and young voters in a match up with Rand Paul? (And the "potential" Democratic candidate has to be a realistic reasonably likely possibility in terms of actually running).

[bravenak]

518. I think we should start looking, not just settle because people are comfortable.

I like Sanders more. I like Sherrod Brown. Most of the CBC is much better than her. I would vote for Angelina Jolie with a smile over her in a Primary. She's a better actor and her political leanings are closer to my own.
Why must we have a career politician? Tired of it. I can understand the lack of interest of young voters in voting for candidates who have been in politics before they were born. Especially when that person ignores them. I see Clinton splitting the youth vote 55-45, the black vote will drop to the low seventies, and she will lose the hispanic vote by a hair. She ignores those groups and was kinda rude to dreamers.
If she want to change that, she can. But she would have to care, and not tell them 'just vote for democrats'. She will need to engage and propose policy beneficial to them. Not just her favorite people 'white working class' voters.

[onenote]

543. why have a career politician?

Well, for one, because this is politics and the likelihood of a non-career politician being able to mount a credible run for the party's nomination and the presidency is pretty low. Maybe a third party campaign, but that would just hurt the Democratic candidate, imo.

Sanders' problems are twofold (apart from the question of whether his having worn the socialist label makes him palatable in a national election): one is that he isn't a Democrat and its nigh near impossible for someone who hasn't been part of the party to take the party's nomination; the other is his age. After having slagged McCain repeatedly over his age, a lot of folks would have to swallow hard to accept a nominee who on election day would be even older than McCain was. Clinton isn't a spring chicken either, but at least she'd be essentially the same age that Reagan was when he was first elected (while Sanders would be older than Reagan was when Reagan was re-elected). Fair? No. But reality isn't always fair.

Brown is an interesting idea. I'd feel better about him if his support in Ohio hadn't fallen preciptiously between 2006 (when he captured 56.2 percent of the vote) and 2012 (when he won with only 50.7 percent).

Whether Clinton loses the Hispanic vote will depend on a number of factors. Who is her opponent? What does the repub platform say on immigration. How hard do the repubs push back on Obama if he carries through (finally) with his promise to use his executive power to move the ball forward on immigration? The repubs may have gained some ground with Hispanic voters in 2014 because of Obama's foolish (at least in retrospect) timidness on immigration. But the repubs will have a heck of a time containing the xenophobes in their own party if Obama makes a move.

[bravenak]

550. I understand your points and I am glad you can see that there are other options.

Brown has a bit of charm that is pleasing to me, he makes me feel comfortable. I don't feel like he's being a phony and when he takes a question you can see him think about the question. No sound bites.

Bernie Sanders is cute. I like his face and I like him and he makes me laugh. He also is very stubborn when it comes to liberal policies, he doesn't play that watered down republican bit. I respect that. I don't care if he's old as moses, his heart is good and his positions fit in line with my generation. Except on Israel, but that is a never-ending story, not a deal breaker. I think he should run in the Dem primaries and we the people should get to decide if he is electable.

Hillary has not really come out in support of immigration reform more than any republican. So what's the difference. I mean I speak spanish, have a hispanic name, but all my relatives are at least second generation citizens in my generation, my mom's mom was illegal, but she got papers of someone else. Living in the shadows, and she was born here. She couldn't get papers after a fire and the government decided she was just illegal, even though she was born her and black. Obviously the descendant of slaves. But the government made it impossible for her to be a citizen. This is a serious problem that many may not deal with themselves, but they know about it. She can 't just wait until the last minute to say anything. Still haven't heard any support from her.

Things that were common beltway knowledge before, are changing. I am used to living under republican rule, most of my life has been under republicans. I do not fear a republican government. Fear motivates righties. We need to find what motivates the left again. And it's not her sadly. She seems to not like the base very much. I never forget this how she acted during primaries, the things she said. Turned me off forever. It will come up over an over again. She won't be able to pretend that it's the republican that dislikes black people. Cause they can just google her on usa today. The idea of her running and losing saddens me. We can do better if we try.

[onenote]

569. Interesting points

And I want to thank you for this being a civil and interesting exchange of views without the acrimony that too often seems to characterize DU these days. It's nice to have a back and forth that stays on a high level.

[bravenak]

570. It was nice to get along with somebody for a spell.

We should all brainstorm and come together with ideas to improve our outlook. We all end up voting the same way, so everybody should get input. Thanks for the talk.

[cheapdate]

468. Vote for whoever you want to vote for. Or don't vote. It's your choice.

If I was in a competitive state, I'd vote Democrat without question. I'm not in a competitive state so I'll probably vote Green or Justice.

Lesser or greater evil isn't even a sensible question. Lesser evil wins.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

476. lol. at least you are committed to the stereotype that millenials feel

that the world revolves around them.

can i get some demographic info about your friends? beside their age, can you tell me about race/income/sexual orientation/gender etc? are you speaking for all millenials, rich millenials, white millenials, poor millenials, black millenials? all of the above

also how many friends do you have?

if you are going to represent all millenials, i need to see if you even begin to scratch the surface of representativeness

[cheapdate]

561. For real.

It was a long time until I came to realize how poor a representation of the rest of the world was my tiny little sample of it. My own kids are 16 and 19. They've been raised in an educated, liberal household in an upper middle class suburb in deep red Tennessee. They're sharp and engaged young people and they haven't been kept in a bubble, but still, they seriously misjudge how atypical they and their beliefs really are in the wider world.

[gmb92]

477. I'd work on your peers

Clinton's probably not my first choice, but the idea that her nomination would cause your peers to stay home or vote Republican is grotesque. Her voting record is progressive.



I knew a few people like that in 2008 during the heated Obama/Clinton primaries, but have warmed up to Clinton since. Her handling of idiotic Republican attacks in the last few years has shown strength.

I don't think she'll get quite the youth vote turnout as Obama did, but far more than during midterm years, and will make up the difference with older/white votes.

[cheapdate]

563. Second that.

While I'm waiting for the perfect eco-anarchist presidential candidate to emerge, I'll support Hillary and the Democrats without reservation.

[Mike Nelson]

491. My peers who "DESPISE" Hillary are...

...pretty solid Republican voters, anyway. They despise Obama, too.

[gmb92]

496. Clinton's Voting Record

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/hillary_clinton.htm

Not sure how any progressive can rationalize not voting, but it certainly requires a very selective and emotive assessment.

[Fred Friendlier]

500. Not a credible threat

Old people vote, young people don't. That calculation solves itself.

Besides, if your friends can't decide between Green and Republican then they have screws loose and you need a better class of friends.

[riversedge]

502. Your peers were lazy this mid term. Is it a trend?

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

507. Maybe I should run: my credentials

I'm 59, some say I'm good-looking.
I can be very articulate when I'm sober.
I smoke pot daily, so I could be a great promoter of legalizing MJ.
I would not rest until we have Medicare Part ALL.
Minimum wage raised to $15/hr over 4 years.
Massive infrastructure/back to work plan paying a minimum of $15/hr.
I'm a great judge of character, which means I'd never fall for the R's bullshit. EVER!
Taxes on corporation drops to %15 percent - NO LOOPHOLES.
Corps that offshore profits would have to pay taxes, or not be allowed to sell their products in USA.
Highest personal income bracket, 50% - NO LOOPHOLES.
Remove the Social Security cap on all incomes. Lower the percentage taken out of your check.
War would need to be declared in all instances (except in dire emergency). Every congress critters need to vote. No voting "present".
No XL Pipeline. No TPP (Shafta).
Threaten the SCOTUS with treason if they don't reverse Citizens United.
Demilitarize ALL polices stations (except for SWAT teams).
Send Bush, Cheney, et al, to the Hague.
Arrest the banksters that broke any laws resulting in the crash of 2008/9.
I could go on and on, but I need my nap.

[Amonester]

511. Bad news (4u) is, DU does not nominate anyone.

Most DUers vote, but in many different places, and there isn't enough DUers to effectively nominate or not nominate anyone...

[Cryptoad]

512. Better to go down a True Democrat than a

Democrat pretending to be a Libertarian!

[Sky Masterson]

515. I will vote for her if I have to, but my heart wouldn't be in it. The independents I know won't

To those not completely enamored by The Clinton Presidency she feels and seems like a dynasty of course.
They wouldn't vote for Jeb Bush Either btw.
The problem is is that she doesn't bring anything new to the table besides Gender.
She doesn't inspire people in any way close to what Obama did which is why the younger voters came out to vote.
I saw where we had a record low turnout this midterm. We had people run away from who they are and who they voted for.
The people who don't care for Obama will never vote for you no matter what. You've got to inspire people to come out.
Hillary doesn't do that. Elisabeth Warren kind of does.

[Sheepshank]

517. I have three female teens at my house..just passed or about to become voters

Lucky for the Dems, not a one of them think like you and your peers do.

Not one of them would think to sit out an election and not vote, or vote REP because the DEM nominee isn't to their liking. They would never think to give their votes (by default) to the Republican Party after the last 6 year nasty, racist anti woman fiasco the Reps have pulled. They have been gobsmacked at what happened last week and do not want to contribute to that effect....evah!

[cheapdate]

565. Hooray! My daughter is 16.

She's a firebrand. Argues religion with teachers. Corrected a trip chaperone on the use of the word "gypsy" (it's a racial slur, don't you know?). She's not "on the fence" over voting when she's 18. And she's well aware that they're not "all the same".

[Damansarajaya]

519. Totally agree . . . but who's going to stop her? nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

523. Too late. I already voted absentee.

Damn. Why didn't you post sooner?

[blkmusclmachine]

525. NOBODY wants HRC, except HRC and her Third Way pals in DC.

"Elect us. We've got some compromising to do."

[Notafraidtoo]

530. If millennials can prove.

If Millennials could prove that they would vote at least 40% then they would get their issues heard, but when only 10-12% of a voting block comes to the polls you get ignored, I know that you need a reason to vote, well on top of the million other reasons that you Millennials don't seem to see, how about that one? not being ignored!


Until millennials prove they are capable of voting then party's will continue to pander to those that do. Go to the primary's, organize, vote in midterms and everyone will listen to you and begin doing what you want.


I wish we had the Australian everyone must vote law, because right now this country is too lazy for Democracy.

[Enthusiast]

531. This is one boomer that will not vote for Hillary.

I won't vote for obvious DLC—Third Way candidates.

[fadedrose]

534. Am too old to be one of your peers

but I agree with them.

There are a few qualified men - and some really nice women who could fill the vacancy...

[Baitball Blogger]

542. Tell your friends to continue expressing their opinions.

She will need to take you all seriously, if she wants to win. Not everyone has the strings to pull to jump from college to a 100K job, as her daughter did. I hope she takes the time to go out of her comfort zone to understand the world as it is for the majority of kids who have to put themselves through college.

[WinkyDink]

544. Any adult who would vote "R" because he "despises" HRC is a.......Republican. Don't kid a kidder.

[Indyfan53]

545. Polls say otherwise.

http://m.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/10/hillary-clinton-millennials-poll

[B Calm]

547. What percentage of millenials even bother to vote? They on a whole

(Not All) seem not a bit interested in politics. Just curious. .

[TNNurse]

553. DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN

Did you people not learn anything from this election?????? I am not a fan of Hillary, but if she is the nominee, she will get my vote.

You can get on your high horse all you want, but this country will not elect a third party candidate in 2016 (maybe some day) and if you do not vote for the Democrat, you will be helping elect the Republican.

[samsingh]

555. we need someone who understands how important

it is to recognize the danger repugs pose to the country. they will not fight fair. We need someone who is good, but someone who also will fight - not be afraid to speak out about progressive values without apology.

[valerief]

556. A lot of us boomers want a progressive and not Hillary to be the Dem candidate. nt

[ebbie15644]

557. I'm 48 and feel like you do

[Arthur_Frain]

558. Patience

I'm over 50, and I'm hoping that as the 2016 race starts to ramp up, someone besides Hillary begins to generate some positive momentum. I won't vote for Hillary either.

[blackcrowflies]

559. I'm in my seventies

and I wouldn't vote for Hillary under any circumstances. I'll writein if necessary. The OP should stop stereotyping older people.

[blackapron]

560. boomer's

first we will vote dem.(period). you young wiper-snappers don't know how good the clinton's were for this country, when they were in the White house. you need to do some research. the Rep's got you right where they want you. the did everything they could to keep her out of the White house, because they know all this "sh-t that they are doing to this country, would not be going on. Hillary would not put up with this B.S. If you ever get to hear her speak in person, you will see how smart she is. Hillary is a candidate they can't beat. Unless they cheat, OH they already did that!

[randr]

562. If millennials want to lose their planet

don't vote for anyone, especially someone who may be on your side.

[BlindTiresias]

566. Want to lose?

Already lost.

[MirrorAshes]

568. The party needs to start giving young people a reason...

...to actually take pride in self-identifying as a Democrat. We're with you on nearly everything, so why do you make it so difficult for us to align ourselves with you? You threw Obama under the bus so quickly, so casually--how do,we trust the party as a whole?

For the record, I'll vote for Hillary just to protect the SCOTUS, even though I'm dubious she won't just nominate another Kennedy. I just don't feel any connection to today's Democratic Party.

[L0oniX]

574. The Dem party big tent is shrinking.