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cali

(114,904 posts)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:19 AM Nov 2014

In the decade + that I've been posting on DU

a lot has changed and most of it has not been for the better. GLBT civil rights is about the only bright spot.

I used to follow politics closely because I believed it was the route to vital change.

I no longer believe that. I now follow politics because I it documents the waning of our democracy; it reflects our society and culture. I now believe that politics on the national level and in most states, has been hopelessly corrupted.

It wasn't the recent election that did it. I saw this coming down the pike for quite some time.

As a culture, we have long valued what I consider to be the wrong things. Collectively, we buy into myths that damage and destroy.

Anyone who thinks they live in a healthy, functioning democracy is fooling herself.

We do not have an engaged and informed electorate. The democratic party has drifted steadily to the right. The republican party has enshrined hatred and xenophobia.

Both parties are controlled, to a frightening degree, by corporate power and money from the 1%. Close to $4 billion was spent on the midterm elections. It came from .2% of the population.

Liberal has been a dirty word and repudiated concept for decades now. Democrats run from being labeled liberal like scalded cats.

Is there really a realistic path to reforming the political system? And no, GOTV isn't the answer in the face of republican controlled state legislatures.

Realistically, there is little that can be done to reign in corporations and the very wealthy. The republicans support that model and even democrats that don't are caught up in the maws of the system.

So go ahead, slam me for saying this, but that won't change reality.

236 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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In the decade + that I've been posting on DU (Original Post) cali Nov 2014 OP
We've survived far worse. We will prevail. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #1
LMFAO L0oniX Nov 2014 #18
Me too! Got to think in terms of the grand sweeps of history, not the backwater we're in now. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #21
A lot has changed since we recovered in the past. Those that hold the power now rhett o rick Nov 2014 #206
Frankly, we are better off without them. Anyone can be like the Walton's and buy cheap crap in China grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #214
"Tis just a scratch!" IDemo Nov 2014 #24
Our politics was just as screwed up in the 1920's when we were electing republicans who cut taxes, pampango Nov 2014 #100
The difference BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #117
I think that popular resistance from the left and the progressive leadership of FDR were both pampango Nov 2014 #119
Similar bleakness is irrelevant BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #123
I don't think the 'bleakness' was similar. It was much, much worse during the Great Depression. pampango Nov 2014 #127
You misunderstand BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #145
I believe we are in a bubble that is about to burst. What has to happen is that the tea-party types grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #129
So? Burst the bubble. BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #148
The bubble that's ready to burst is the world economy Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #164
There was a huge message from the left in 2008. Unfortunately we were conned Doctor_J Nov 2014 #176
FDR saved Capitalism from itself. Most of those reforms were imthevicar Nov 2014 #196
yes, exactly. BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #197
IOW imthevicar Nov 2014 #224
The Difference Is... billhicks76 Nov 2014 #213
Another excellent point BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #219
What do you think will change to allow us to prevail? lark Nov 2014 #112
I believe we'll see a repeat of the FDR revolution, given time. If not with Sanders in 2016, then grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #125
I lean this way, but such developments must come faster. Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #190
I'm worried that it won't work out the same this time for the general populace. Kermitt Gribble Nov 2014 #193
Fundamentally, the big difference is they have the means to EASILY and with minimal loss of life ... brett_jv Nov 2014 #225
We Need To Clean Our Own House First billhicks76 Nov 2014 #215
The issue is I'm seeing more backward than forward movement. lark Nov 2014 #232
Rejection of the TPP. Should be part of our platform. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #233
100% correct lark Nov 2014 #236
Except that before we had support from others... freebrew Nov 2014 #131
You may be right, but I doubt that I will live to see it. olegramps Nov 2014 #158
That was painful to read. What a psycho. I hope people wake up in CO & everywhere. ~nt RiverLover Nov 2014 #202
Please do tell when that was? Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #161
When we were slaves. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #166
Have you been a slave? I never have been (yet). Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #170
"I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves". jtuck004 Nov 2014 #189
In that sense we are all slaves to many things. Which one do you mean? Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #208
No, you do the work now. lol. bye. n/t jtuck004 Nov 2014 #218
lol! Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #231
The difference is climate change. CrispyQ Nov 2014 #171
I cannot disagree with anything you have stated. n/t djean111 Nov 2014 #2
I don't know the answer. It might take some great crisis to focus the people's minds... First Speaker Nov 2014 #3
We just had another stolen election, and few seem to care. Scuba Nov 2014 #78
This election wasn't stolen Saboburns Nov 2014 #99
Lets no forget the assholes ... GeorgeGist Nov 2014 #130
^THIS^ Maru Kitteh Nov 2014 #133
I agree with the OP and am hopeful that Americans will wake up to the fact that our government Dustlawyer Nov 2014 #93
I really thought we had that with Bush Jr. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #101
Each time a D leaves the White House ... SomeGuyInEagan Nov 2014 #162
People hold up signs of allegiance and labels, but behind the scenes there is a lot of cross-over RKP5637 Nov 2014 #4
10 + years ago, people used to send my BP thru the roof by saying things like.... Smarmie Doofus Nov 2014 #5
Me too. I got in some epic arguments about it, but I'm still not saying cali Nov 2014 #6
I'm so glad ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #9
I can't agree. I think "they" pretty much *are* all the same now. Smarmie Doofus Nov 2014 #29
The mechanism of it is triangulation zeemike Nov 2014 #55
Excellent point LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #84
Doesn't this amount to "caving?" treestar Nov 2014 #33
Your team won treestar! Take a midterm victory lap. nt adirondacker Nov 2014 #40
I see a disconnect between "caving" and "fighting" meme treestar Nov 2014 #178
Well said Cali. shraby Nov 2014 #7
It gets worse. jeepers Nov 2014 #30
The authoritarian plutocracy marions ghost Nov 2014 #114
+1 Well said. ~nt RiverLover Nov 2014 #204
Thx marions ghost Nov 2014 #234
A show of democratic power perhaps jeepers Nov 2014 #223
Is this a Tea Party movement? marions ghost Nov 2014 #235
Maybe the "mass democracy" experiment is near the end Bragi Nov 2014 #8
good food for thought. I saw this start when Reagan was elected - NRaleighLiberal Nov 2014 #10
"social media, the speed of information flow, exacerbates everything". Damn straight cali Nov 2014 #12
I ponder it often - we react to minute results here and everywhere NRaleighLiberal Nov 2014 #19
60 here-- just watched "I, Claudius" again and "republic vs. empire" hits too close to home carolinayellowdog Nov 2014 #75
Bi-partisanship rules when there is any threat to the establishment. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2014 #11
I believe it is time to focus on our local elections. Tatiana Nov 2014 #13
Yes, start with things like school boards. alarimer Nov 2014 #17
Big money is now moving into small elections, a trend which will surely continue. enough Nov 2014 #20
Absolutely. But you have a better shot at winning locally than nationally. Tatiana Nov 2014 #25
Chevron spent 3M in Richmond, CA and FAILED noiretextatique Nov 2014 #87
So what is Richmond doing right KamaAina Nov 2014 #126
it helps that the city had to sue Chevron because of a fire noiretextatique Nov 2014 #132
Ah yes, the fire. KamaAina Nov 2014 #134
i remember it. i was living in oakland then noiretextatique Nov 2014 #135
I can't slam you cali, I agree with everything you said this is reality. Autumn Nov 2014 #14
I agree with you mostly. Half-Century Man Nov 2014 #15
Agree n2doc Nov 2014 #16
The train left the station a long time ago. L0oniX Nov 2014 #22
Indeed.. the veil is beginning to lift.. 2banon Nov 2014 #64
Sadly, I agree MissDeeds Nov 2014 #23
Has anybody else noticed that now they are replacing the term "liberal" with " socialist"? world wide wally Nov 2014 #62
We've got posters here LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #88
I'm fine with "socialist". I am one. Liberals were always fence sitters. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #200
Another proud liberal here! Scuba Nov 2014 #79
been laughing at notion that electing more dems would make the congress more liberal KG Nov 2014 #26
Bleak outlook. But one I share. (nt) Inkfreak Nov 2014 #27
"slam me for saying this" Omaha Steve Nov 2014 #28
Nothing happens quickly treestar Nov 2014 #31
lots of things- more and more- happen very quickly indeed. cali Nov 2014 #67
Agree! The first step to change is an accurate, warts-and-all assessment of our predicament RufusTFirefly Nov 2014 #32
I'll probably be more inclined to agree with you... yallerdawg Nov 2014 #34
Comeback? Jackpine Radical Nov 2014 #41
+31. That's how warm it is outside, another cold reality. n/t jtuck004 Nov 2014 #188
No, with the exception of LGBT rights, liberties and rights have not been growing. Think cali Nov 2014 #68
It appears many commenters agree with you. yallerdawg Nov 2014 #192
i share your conclusions....but don't want to! Tumbulu Nov 2014 #35
I wish I could say I disagree Bettie Nov 2014 #36
I was in Hong Kong right before the Brits Puglover Nov 2014 #37
If a magic wand was waved and we suddenly had 350 Democrats in bullwinkle428 Nov 2014 #38
I read about politics only to gage the situation i'm living. I don't snappyturtle Nov 2014 #39
That's about where I am, though... polichick Nov 2014 #43
Hope is for the future but I have to deal with the present. With that snappyturtle Nov 2014 #49
I could see it happening that way... polichick Nov 2014 #51
Parallel governance jeepers Nov 2014 #59
I've always been an issue oriented voter. Over the many years I've been snappyturtle Nov 2014 #104
That's where I'm at, too, Turtle. I will be OK in retirement unless we Nay Nov 2014 #77
Oh, I couldn't agree more with your comments....except maybe for inflation. snappyturtle Nov 2014 #121
Don't apologize! It's a nice rant. Like you, I've always lived thriftily even though Nay Nov 2014 #156
Won't go that far, but to some extent, this is true. Also, closeupready Nov 2014 #42
The system has been corrupt for a long time. progressoid Nov 2014 #44
We'll get a redo.... Uben Nov 2014 #45
“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.” EEO Nov 2014 #46
Agree 100%. nt TBF Nov 2014 #47
! It's all Nader's Fault! 2banon Nov 2014 #48
excellent assessment. BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #50
Being 74, IMO it was much worse in the 50's and 60's. CK_John Nov 2014 #52
I am also in my 70's. At that time, life was good--so I thought. Paper Roses Nov 2014 #83
Here is what that society you long for put on my second ballot as a voting adult: Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #105
When I was young in the 50's and 60's, we were naive. No mention of gays, or any other Paper Roses Nov 2014 #120
Oh hell I was too young to appreciate the 50's but the 60's were fucking awesome. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #201
As I have stated Old Codger Nov 2014 #53
Surrender is not "reality". It's an emotional label born of despair. riqster Nov 2014 #54
no, this is an intellectual assessment, not an emotional one. cali Nov 2014 #60
Not buying it. Your post is riddled with imprecision and generalizations. riqster Nov 2014 #63
lol. compared to your posts, it's a beacon of intellectual purity. cali Nov 2014 #70
Pathetic snark. You must love the status quo. Scuba Nov 2014 #76
It's pathetic because rig seems to think he's so above us all that he has no need cali Nov 2014 #89
That's pretty hilarious coming from you Capt. Obvious Nov 2014 #94
Fix the media and all else is possible. LawDeeDah Nov 2014 #56
Agree that Fix the MEDIA is critical but rarely brought up. Huge blind spot. appalachiablue Nov 2014 #98
. Rhinodawg Nov 2014 #57
You are correct UglyGreed Nov 2014 #58
Agreed G_j Nov 2014 #61
I take my advice from Josey Wales...you should too. Rhinodawg Nov 2014 #65
absolutely not. cali Nov 2014 #66
Too bad...always worked for me. nt Rhinodawg Nov 2014 #73
Worms gotta eat, too. Uben Nov 2014 #71
i tried to give cali good avice... Rhinodawg Nov 2014 #81
Hell is coming to breakfast. Rhinodawg Nov 2014 #82
Land of the Free hibbing Nov 2014 #69
I don't know your age, but I suspect this is most apparent to the older DU participants. Vinca Nov 2014 #72
Great post Cali K&R B Calm Nov 2014 #74
Great post cali. I don't see this as "surrender", just seeking another path to victory. Keep up .. Scuba Nov 2014 #80
I basically agree with most of this. One thing I'd add though: DanTex Nov 2014 #85
you are correct, and it saddens me noiretextatique Nov 2014 #102
the thing with minorities and police has always been around, the difference now is there are JI7 Nov 2014 #140
it sure is, and let's be frank: it an attitude that is not confined to just republicons noiretextatique Nov 2014 #183
Of all the superduper posters Android3.14 Nov 2014 #86
thanks, I guess. cali Nov 2014 #90
There are a few folks here that post Android3.14 Nov 2014 #103
we need an American Spring noiretextatique Nov 2014 #91
Under what ideological framework? BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #150
any ideas? noiretextatique Nov 2014 #168
Socialism and communism have produced the strongest resistance BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #173
Agree LeftInTX Nov 2014 #92
GOTV can't be one day, one week, even one month. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #96
Excellent! LeftInTX Nov 2014 #152
Depressing, isn't it? LittleBlue Nov 2014 #95
I don't brush off the LGBT rights accomplishments like you do. That happened due to polical and Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #97
+1 YoungDemCA Nov 2014 #107
And my entire point is that if you deal in reality and don't say 'exemptions for LGBT progress' Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #157
I didn't brush it off at all. It's important. I noted that. But it is not more important than cali Nov 2014 #108
Your personal attack is noted. You exclude LGBT issues to serve your point then when that is pointed Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #138
I am so sick of you twisting what I say. It's disgusting and dishonest and cali Nov 2014 #110
Who's twisting whom? All I said is that I do not see things the way you do. Is that a sin? Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #151
I dunno... BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #155
Like I don't know all of those things? LGBT equality issues are to a large degree economic issues Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #174
Cali, I am very much with you. SheilaT Nov 2014 #106
No slam. I agree with you. But here is what helps me. kydo Nov 2014 #109
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, eridani Nov 2014 #226
LOL kydo Nov 2014 #230
Really turbinetree Nov 2014 #111
I've been a lurker since 2002, joined in 2005. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #113
Well, that's a pretty comprehensive pessimistic view of it all, isn't it? MineralMan Nov 2014 #115
The left has been "educating" for decades BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #143
Thank you for taking the time to reply. MineralMan Nov 2014 #144
Disagree all you like BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #146
You know, I think I'll follow my own advice, thanks. MineralMan Nov 2014 #147
Alright BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #149
I agree Cali angrychair Nov 2014 #116
With all due respect, this is ridiculous YoungDemCA Nov 2014 #118
over the last 40 years or so. cali Nov 2014 #122
the money came from 0.2% of the population hfojvt Nov 2014 #124
I'm sure it is the former. ozone_man Nov 2014 #211
Your Comments Sound So Much Like Mine... ChiciB1 Nov 2014 #128
We have a corrupted system in Washington DC that operates much like Cleita Nov 2014 #136
As an ex-patriate, I can say that I look at the United States truebluegreen Nov 2014 #137
in this past election Republicans did not run on the usual hate and it's one reason they won JI7 Nov 2014 #139
I am pretty much exactly where you are Cosmocat Nov 2014 #141
Read some history, Captain Sunshine. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #142
Lol BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #154
Take a Prozac and read a history book, chuckles. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #160
Well versed in history actually BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #163
If you're not a progressive, you have a funny taste in political websites. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #167
progressive politics =/= progressive fallacy, two different things BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #169
I won't deny being fond of whig historiography. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #194
gee honeypie, I guess that MA in history doesn't count. cali Nov 2014 #165
"Weak sauce" compared to what? True Blue Door Nov 2014 #184
Yes people over look that treestar Nov 2014 #179
Yes, we have accomplished so much. And I think we could accomplish a lot more True Blue Door Nov 2014 #198
+1 kjones Nov 2014 #216
People even forget about the previous decade. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #221
a sad k&r... spanone Nov 2014 #153
Not slamming you for telling the truth - even though it hurts. Elmer S. E. Dump Nov 2014 #159
Recommended! (#159) H2O Man Nov 2014 #172
K&R. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #175
The 1% has a deathgrip on our Government, far and wide. And they won't ever give it up. They'd turn blkmusclmachine Nov 2014 #177
was thinking how we were no better than what is happening in Mexico.... glinda Nov 2014 #180
We are screwn. Jamastiene Nov 2014 #181
Once again we're in perfect agreement, cali. Feral Child Nov 2014 #182
There is something you can do, actually. Helen Borg Nov 2014 #185
IMHO, this results from not having found a consistent message to counter the GOP meme of the last stevenleser Nov 2014 #186
No slamming here Jack Rabbit Nov 2014 #187
Actually, I'm optimistic because young people are wise to the nonsense put out by Conservatives.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #191
Completely agree. Great post, cali! n/t Kermitt Gribble Nov 2014 #195
The deniers will focus on the 1/10th step forward and ignore the 10 steps backwards. Govt. spying whereisjustice Nov 2014 #199
Thinking much the same liberal N proud Nov 2014 #203
We need to fix the voting system. Breaking up media monopolies would also be nice. ucrdem Nov 2014 #205
K&R awoke_in_2003 Nov 2014 #207
I am in total agreement sadoldgirl Nov 2014 #209
"Is there really a realistic path to reforming the political system?" Martin Eden Nov 2014 #210
I don't disagree Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #212
And pundits like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity exist to repeat the big lie that we're the enemy. Initech Nov 2014 #217
I've felt that way for a long time fadedrose Nov 2014 #220
You speak for me, Cali. hedda_foil Nov 2014 #222
I think in the long run, you'll be alright. Evoman Nov 2014 #227
We left LittleGirl Nov 2014 #228
Unfortunately I can only agree with much of what you say. Raster Nov 2014 #229
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
206. A lot has changed since we recovered in the past. Those that hold the power now
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:39 PM
Nov 2014

are not patriots and will gladly take their wealth elsewhere. China will soon dominate the world's economy. We have already sold China huge debts that won't come from the wealthy. There is really no turning back. When the major empires started to crumble, there was no stopping them. We are no different.

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
214. Frankly, we are better off without them. Anyone can be like the Walton's and buy cheap crap in China
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:53 PM
Nov 2014

and sell it here for a profit.

In my view, there is no reason we can not tax the hoarding class again as did the Greatest Generation.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
100. Our politics was just as screwed up in the 1920's when we were electing republicans who cut taxes,
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:15 PM
Nov 2014

battled unions, restricted immigration, raised tariffs and achieved the greatest income inequality we have ever had in the US. To top the 1920's off, they caused the Great Depression. Things looked pretty hopeless from 1929 to 1933 when FDR took office.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
117. The difference
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:40 PM
Nov 2014

The difference is that back then those reforms were pushed through due to popular resistance from the left. FDR didn't just do them out the goodness of his heart, they were to satisfy the demands of radicals. What do we have today that is anything like that? Nothing.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
119. I think that popular resistance from the left and the progressive leadership of FDR were both
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:54 PM
Nov 2014

essential parts of the progressive era from 1933 on. Neither would have been as effective without the other.

My point earlier was that things looked very bleak in the 1920's, particularly from 1929 to 1932 with the onset of the Great Depression. republicans ran the country and obviously had no answers to the tremendous problems of poverty and inequality that we endured. Other than watching conservatives destroy their credibility there was little for liberals to feel good about during that era. I would imagine that most felt pretty hopeless at the time.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
123. Similar bleakness is irrelevant
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:04 PM
Nov 2014

What can you point to today that at all parallels the popular resistance in the 20's and 30's? There is nothing, beyond the meek Occupy protests which gave us what, some new terms? Sorry, I don't think that era is a suitable comparison.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
127. I don't think the 'bleakness' was similar. It was much, much worse during the Great Depression.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:12 PM
Nov 2014

Popular resistance in the 1920's and 1930's was an encouraging sign but it did not put food on the table or reign in the financial excesses of the 1% until FDR was elected.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
145. You misunderstand
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:07 PM
Nov 2014

The popular resistance is what forced his hand to enact the reforms, I think you are forgetting that he first campaigned as a moderate liberal before seeing that the U.S. was at serious risk for upheaval and decided reform was the better option. You do not get the FDR reforms without radicals, full stop.

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
129. I believe we are in a bubble that is about to burst. What has to happen is that the tea-party types
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:13 PM
Nov 2014

need to understand that they have been as betrayed as the progressives do.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
148. So? Burst the bubble.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:10 PM
Nov 2014

What are the people going to do about it? They have no unifying ideology or even a sense of alternative so if that bubble did burst they'd sooner tear at themselves before tearing into oligarchy. The campaign against the radical left enacted by the hard right and meekly accepted by moderate liberals is going to reap a bitter fruit indeed.

 

Elmer S. E. Dump

(5,751 posts)
164. The bubble that's ready to burst is the world economy
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:48 PM
Nov 2014

And that will be MUCH worse than the Great Depression. If the stock market loses 70% of it's value, how will anyone ever retire? How will retirees survive?

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
176. There was a huge message from the left in 2008. Unfortunately we were conned
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:26 PM
Nov 2014

If we'd elected a disciple of FDR instead of Reagan, we'd be on our way back right now.

 

imthevicar

(811 posts)
196. FDR saved Capitalism from itself. Most of those reforms were
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:55 PM
Nov 2014

meant to calm the masses to forestall a communist economy from gaining popularity. Given enough time without those reforms we would have ended up like The Soviet union. The US had a strong and vibrant Communist. and Socialist party's. they provided the perfect foil to prod the 2 party system into feeding the public trust instead of the 1%. Later When things got organized enough, the Joe McCarthy s took over destroying the competition.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
197. yes, exactly.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:00 PM
Nov 2014

However those ideologies no longer exist in any meaningful sense, meaning we can't expect the same kind of dramatic reforms that so many are sure are gonna come any day now. I don't think they can be resurrected either as the right's totalitarian control over society is complete.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
219. Another excellent point
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 10:35 PM
Nov 2014

If automation advances enough they won't even need to recruit the lower classes into the security apparatus.

lark

(23,099 posts)
112. What do you think will change to allow us to prevail?
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:26 PM
Nov 2014

This is a serious question because I feel like there's no hope and would like to know about any silver lining I'm missing. I think this country is now a corportocracy, for the rich by the rich and fuck the rest. When a criminal like Scott can win in the state of FL TWICE, after the company he owned at the time getting record fines for deliberately overbilling Medicare patients, something is seriously amiss. No one likes him, he just ran non-stop epic amounts of scary Crist ads and won. When SCOTUS ruled that new reporting does not have to be factual, that they can report outright lies and rules that corporations have more rights than people, I just don't see any bright spots - other than GLTG issues.

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
125. I believe we'll see a repeat of the FDR revolution, given time. If not with Sanders in 2016, then
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:10 PM
Nov 2014

after the Republicans devastate the country during their next reign of terra.

By 2020, or 2024, people will be pissed, even more pissed off than they were at Bush.

Obama succeeded as the progressive candidate in 2008 - beating out Hillary, a sure bet, a woman who was flush with corporate cash. Unfortunately Obama was nothing but a Trojan D*nkey (at term, by the way, that I've been banned from using on DU).

So the pressure exists to elect a true progressive.

In the 20's the country was going through a similar crisis. We pulled us back then, we can do it again, IMHO.

Failing that, we may see a French style revolution.

The trick to success is to look at the grand sweeps of history. We are slowly and inevitably moving forward.



 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
190. I lean this way, but such developments must come faster.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:23 PM
Nov 2014

At a Minimum, the overhaul of the Democratic Party (necessarily by an insurgency) must happen within 2 years, overlapped by recruitment of fighting liberals on as many electoral levels as possible.

Kermitt Gribble

(1,855 posts)
193. I'm worried that it won't work out the same this time for the general populace.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:57 PM
Nov 2014

The Ruling Class, I'm sure, has learned from the mistakes their ancestors made, and will be prepared for any type of revolt. They own the entire US Government, as well as many state governments.

brett_jv

(1,245 posts)
225. Fundamentally, the big difference is they have the means to EASILY and with minimal loss of life ...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:45 AM
Nov 2014

Just kill us all.

Back in teh days of, say the French Revolution, and even up through the 30's, the level of 'killing technology' simply 'favored the masses'. Given enough people, any defenses by the aristocracy could be overcome.

But with the WMD's now available to the 1%, We the People all now essentially 'get to live' through their largesse, and our usefulness to them. Should the 1% feel in any way 'threatened', the 99% can be squashed out of existence, like bugs. There's essentially no strength in our numbers anymore. All the pea-shooters that teh 'patriotic' gun nuts think are going to 'save them' will prove to be no match for air strikes and tanks and sonic weapons and rockets and everything else our Rulers have at their disposal.

That's not to mention how lost the 'resistance' would be if their cell phones, fuel, food and water supplies, electricity and internet access were cut off ... hell they wouldn't even HAVE to kill the resisters, just cut 'em off from food and water and electricity and they'd stop fighting immediately.

The proletariat are pretty much fucked now in ways that were unthinkable 100 years ago.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
215. We Need To Clean Our Own House First
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:53 PM
Nov 2014

It's all about hating Obama and being plugged into the FOX News Noise Machine. The division keeps us all from teaming up to change the sad state of things. But the irony is that if people looked under the hood they would realize the Bush Cabal is and always has been in power through the Military/Surveillance/MassIncarceration Contractor Complex just like a real Republican, Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, warned. He knew these traitors firsthand. But a closer look under the hood would reveal that Obama and Clinton serve them too and are underlings of Bush Sr and Dick Cheney, the middle managers watching over the clerks. Everything we hear about hating Obama is a joke designed to distract people. He works directly for Bush. The only time a Bush doesn't want to be at the helm is when they feel the need to have a fall guy fronting for them when there is a liberal backlash from the last Presidency. It's much like how high level banking families and industrialists choose a guy like Bush to front for them so people don't casually know their names or faces or where they live. Expect them to install Jeb Bush next as Obama has let the rehabilitation of that family name go unchecked just as Clinton did covering for Bush Sr crimes. The Bush name was lower than dirt in 2008 to the point that the only Republicans even supporting him were the 20% Evangelicals who bought into that he was a Christian after he stopped being an alcoholic and cokehead. The weird thing about Truth is that for something so precious, valuable and scarce the supply still exceeds the demand.

lark

(23,099 posts)
232. The issue is I'm seeing more backward than forward movement.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 01:47 PM
Nov 2014

OK, yes, forward movement on some social things, but economically & politically we have switfty moved backwards. What economic forward momentum are you seeing?

lark

(23,099 posts)
236. 100% correct
Fri Nov 14, 2014, 01:29 PM
Nov 2014

Stopping TPP is extremely important but don't see how when Repugs and the president support it? Can the Dems filibuster a treaty? That would be our only hope and it's think because of the blue dogs and/or corpordems.

freebrew

(1,917 posts)
131. Except that before we had support from others...
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:19 PM
Nov 2014

the USA is now a pariah amongst civilized nations. The bully with a stick, a great thirst for oil and the power to get whatever the PTB wants.

We are now getting accustomed to military-style police. How long will it take to just change that to just the military?
Future generations are at risk. Just the way THEY like it.

**stupid typo**

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
158. You may be right, but I doubt that I will live to see it.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:37 PM
Nov 2014

It appears to me that Republican Party with the determination of the MSM has accomplish their goal of demonizing the Democratic Party. I live in Colorado in which a person such as Cory Gardner easily won yet stands for ever thing that has destroyed the middle class. It appears that the situation has deteriorated to the extent that anyone that you only have to have a R before your name to guarantee election. It totally irrelevant regardless of what the stand for or their lack of character. I what to cite example that proves my point.

A man by the name of Gordon "Dr. Chaps" Klingenschmitt won election to the state house by a margin of 70 percent to 30 percent. "Dr. Chaps" according to the Southern Poverty Law Center is the head of LGBT hate group named Pray in Jesus Name Project. According to SPLC he is "best-know for his claims of casting demons out of LGBT people." Mindful that he won election to the El Paso country district that includes Colorado Springs. A center of fundamentalist and evangelicals along with a large number of retired military. The Air Force Academy, a hot bed of sexual praditors is right down the highway.

According to an Opinion Page piece by Mark McVay published in the Denver Post on November 12, 2014 he was Court-martialed by the Air Force in 2006 and expelled from the Navy for attending right wing political demonstration outside the White House in 2006 while wearing his uniform. His claim to fame is that he that he is capable of casting out demons of LGBT people. He "claims that gay people sexually abuse their own children and be discriminated against because they're not going to heaven and only people who a go to heaven are entitled to equal treatment." He has even published a book that is sure to fire up the Republican base. In his book "The Demons of Barack H. Obama" he claims to have cast out 50 demons that were ruling Obama including spirits of sexual abuse, genocide, homosexual lust etc. He also claims to have the supernatural ability denied everyone else to see non=human spirits, angels and eve the Holy Spirit of God. In response to his enemies of religious liberty he called on God to let their days be few, plunder the fields and seize their assets. Cut off their descendants and remember their sins.

I imagine that he will be running for the Senate to replace Senator Bennett in the next election. The way things are going, he will probably win by 80% or more. As I said if Cory Gardner can support everything designed to destroy the middle class and get elected this guy's election is guaranteed.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
189. "I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves".
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:18 PM
Nov 2014

Harriet Tubman.

We have done away with the chains. They were so analog.

The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.
Steven Biko


Couple good quotes to remember lest one gets too comfortable on the plantation.

CrispyQ

(36,464 posts)
171. The difference is climate change.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:59 PM
Nov 2014

It's humanity's game changer but we continue to stick our collective head in the sand.


Nov. 12, 2014
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/worlds-largest-polluters-strike-deal-to-curb-global-warming/

The United States will cut emissions 26 to 28 percent below 2005 levels by 2025, a target the White House declared can be met "under existing law"—that is, without the need for Congress to pass legislation. China will peak its fast-rising emissions by 2030 at the latest, while also increasing its share of non-fossil energy to 20 percent in that same period.



March 7, 2013
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/03/07/1685881/developed-nations-must-cut-emissions-in-half-by-2020-says-new-study/

As a result, the report finds that developed countries must reduce their emissions by 50 percent below 1990 levels by 2020 if we are to have a medium chance of limiting warming to 2°C, thus preventing some of climate change’s worst impacts.


First Speaker

(4,858 posts)
3. I don't know the answer. It might take some great crisis to focus the people's minds...
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:24 AM
Nov 2014

...I had thought that the Great Recession would do that, but it hasn't. My guess is, it will take something like another stolen election, but even more blatant than 2000--something that shows practically everybody who isn't a member of the media class that the system is completely rotten. This is a horrible thing to say--waiting for a catastrophe--but it's how I see it. The fact is, the odds are against American democracy in the long run. A slow descent into a Disneyfied banana republic is much likelier...

Saboburns

(2,807 posts)
99. This election wasn't stolen
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:15 PM
Nov 2014

If it was stolen, then I'd have hope to set things right.

Nope, this election was won by greedy assholes, who got ignorant, fearful fools to vote for them. The people I encounter in this country are easily, EASILY, led around without ever having an Independent thought.

These things continue to get worse, not better.

We are truly a Nation of Fools.

And we get exactly the Government we Deserve.

Maru Kitteh

(28,340 posts)
133. ^THIS^
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:33 PM
Nov 2014

You are exactly correct and I see no hope for change. We intend to become ex-pats in the next 3 to 7 years.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
93. I agree with the OP and am hopeful that Americans will wake up to the fact that our government
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:08 PM
Nov 2014

is currently run by a Plutocracy through the use of campaign donations. We currently have a Senator in Bernie Sanders who supports Publicly Funded Elections and ending campaign donations. This would put us back in control and fix most of our problems.
He won't run for President unless he gets a lot of support from us since the big donors would be against everything he stands for, us! While most here agree with the fact that the politicans and judges are bought off, few are willing to do anything about it. We will continue our slide until enough people get truly fed up with this. It appears that things will have to get much worse before they have any chance of getting better. At some point, some event will spark enough outrage for this to happen, but by that point I think it will be too late to save us from terrible climate change. We are Lemmings heading off of the cliff!

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
101. I really thought we had that with Bush Jr.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:16 PM
Nov 2014

I shudder at the depths of catastrophe yet to be unfolded on the nation under a Republican controlled Congress and a plutocratic President of either party. It's going to get incredibly ugly, and a lot of people are going to die who don't have to, as the safety net continues to be unwoven.

SomeGuyInEagan

(1,515 posts)
162. Each time a D leaves the White House ...
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:44 PM
Nov 2014

... in my lifetime, the R is a nightmare.

First, Nixon. Jesus, what is going on there? Can't be a worse R in the WH than Dick Nixon!

Then, Reagan. Well, this has to be the low point for Rs in the WH, right?

Then, Junior. The bar can be lowered.

The goal of the Rs used to be to privatize the profits while shifting the risk to the taxpayers. I think that went out of favor after the Great Recession. IMO (and only IMO), it looks like the plan is to privatize the profits while shifting to risk directly to the employees. True class warfare. I expect to see bills put forward by a R-controlled House and Senate that would institute debtors' prisons (privately run, of course) and to allow creditors to go after the relatives of debtors for payment (not talking about loan co-signers; talking about your cousin whom you haven't talked with since 1983 bought a boat and died - you are now legally liable for the debt).

Feeling rather glum today about the country my daughter inherits.

RKP5637

(67,108 posts)
4. People hold up signs of allegiance and labels, but behind the scenes there is a lot of cross-over
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:28 AM
Nov 2014

especially in terms of big $$$$$'s. IMO many Americans live in a delusional world of all is really OK. Just my feelings, not saying I'm right or wrong, but just what I feel today. Elections are highly controlled, candidates are highly controlled. Just looking at Citizens United, how can one believing in a democracy not say WTF.

There are signs are all over the place, but IMO there is an aloofness filled with delusions that we have a democracy. And Americans are so damn propagandized and react to hot buttons than examining the facts. That said, there is so much disinformation and propaganda today, it's sometimes hard to even find the true facts.

 

Smarmie Doofus

(14,498 posts)
5. 10 + years ago, people used to send my BP thru the roof by saying things like....
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:32 AM
Nov 2014

..... "They're all the same.", "It doesn't make any difference.", "Ahh... they're all a bunch of crooks.", etc. etc.

They weren't right then.... but, alas, they are correct today. A case of "creating the change you were too lazy and cynical to prevent."

But, bottom line: what else besides political activism are you gonna do about it?

K and R

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
6. Me too. I got in some epic arguments about it, but I'm still not saying
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:36 AM
Nov 2014

"they're all the same". I guess I'm saying that even with the differences, we've ended up here.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
9. I'm so glad ...
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:43 AM
Nov 2014

you are not saying, "they're all the same", because it is blatantly and provably false. I do, however, share your frustration in the political place we find ourselves.

 

Smarmie Doofus

(14,498 posts)
29. I can't agree. I think "they" pretty much *are* all the same now.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:09 PM
Nov 2014

You're on the other side of the border. ( Bless you, btw, for the "loan" of Zephyr Teachout !)

On this side I have a nominally "Democratic" governor.... who out-fundraised the Repub-Conservative gov candidate 45M to 5M.

We know where all this $$$$ is coming from... and it's not coming from the Red Cross, The Boy Scouts of America, The Campfire Girls,
or The 100 Neediest Cases Fund.

If he's lucky enough to not be indicted for obstruction of justice or other aspects of the Moreland Commission cover-up, he will continue to champion GOP control of the state senate on into perpetuity.

In the meantime, my "Dem" state senator, caucuses w. the *GOP*. Local lesser DEMs are ok w. this and/or meekly fall in line.

Di Blasio was for a time a cause for celebration; but it became increasingly clear that even a 74% vote total is insufficient to confer REAL political power. Either that... or he's got a spine like an egg noodle.

I'm sorry...but around here, anyway, they ( ok, I'll qualify it slightly) PRETTY MUCH *are* all the same.

I'm hanging my hopes ... however slim... on Teachout . Because ya gotta have hope.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
55. The mechanism of it is triangulation
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:01 PM
Nov 2014

And that is why we always end up here.
So no they are not all the same but that is OK in the game...it makes it seem real.

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
84. Excellent point
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:48 PM
Nov 2014

As they Republicans hurtle to the right, we keep following them with triangulation. We've been dragged so far to the right that most people no longer have any party representing them, and have simply said "fuck it".

"We're not as bad as" rings hollow when you're party has moved to the right of Nixon.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
178. I see a disconnect between "caving" and "fighting" meme
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:28 PM
Nov 2014

and the drop out and give up mentality, which comes from the same people.

jeepers

(314 posts)
30. It gets worse.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:09 PM
Nov 2014

The system you live under and it's failure are not failures of democracy, but rather failures of an authoritarian plutocracy. You want to save America? focus your energy on building a true democracy.

Your reason and your passion would be sorely missed if you take yourself out of the fight.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
114. The authoritarian plutocracy
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:32 PM
Nov 2014

are onto us. They won't allow democracy to be built (or re-built if it ever existed) in America.

They have the money and the power. Reason and passion alone is not enough to defeat that kind of power. We have to put our energy somewhere that will actually exert pressure on them. The Rethuglicon party that wants complete control of America will lie, cheat and steal--to get there. How do we fight that without stooping to their level?

So we listen to Democracy Now and we read DU and we send a couple bucks to a campaign--and we sit around and sigh. This is a parallel universe that we live in. Unless we have some new leadership that can put some pressure on the system, we will continue to be pawns in their game.

This is not a democracy.

jeepers

(314 posts)
223. A show of democratic power perhaps
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 01:43 AM
Nov 2014

I would suggest a referendum petition drive in all fifty states in order to find 34 states that will demand a constitutional convention be called. To the powers that be there is no more direct or confrontational approach than this and sets the tone that the people demand change and that they will be making demands not asking for govt permission.

Sanders is right when he says we are going to need a national movement if his presidency is going to accomplish anything.

If at the same time you run a populist campaign with a populist candidate and a two year window you could win this election. You open the convention and from there it is a whole new America.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
235. Is this a Tea Party movement?
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:17 PM
Nov 2014

We're not on the same page maybe?

A populist candidate, yes--but constitutional convention might backfire if it's full of Tea Partyists.

Bragi

(7,650 posts)
8. Maybe the "mass democracy" experiment is near the end
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:43 AM
Nov 2014

It seems to me to be possible that mankind's 200-or-so year serious flirtation with democracy may be nearing an end because it has produced, in fact, poor governments that are unable to act decisively, or even smartly, when faced with real and large issues.

For example, I seems more likely that China's more limited form of democracy (where the state party screens and picks candidates before they can run in elections) probably has more chance of creating leaders who will tackle climate change than is likely from American-style democracy, which too often produces stupid leaders incapable of leading on anything.

Or is the corruption of American politics solely due to its commitment to capitalism and cash-bought candidates?

I dunno, but I do think it's time to reconsider some "first principles", including our commitment to democratic mechanism that assume a rational voter, and a focus on rational consideration of facts and information that are really no longer possible in a world of bought information channels and bought candidates.

NRaleighLiberal

(60,014 posts)
10. good food for thought. I saw this start when Reagan was elected -
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:43 AM
Nov 2014

I was in grad school - and shocked when seeing how many of those younger than me were starting to swing rightward. Saw it continue when I was in grad school. (I am 58 by the way)

What is hard to perceive is our own little slice of life in the grand scheme of things - I suspect there is a sine wave shape to all of this and we just continue to repeat mistakes, a little progress, then we backtrack.

Social media, the speed of information flow exacerbates everything.

So I can't say for sure that it is bad and getting worse (it sure feels like it is), but I think somewhere in history we would have the same perception.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
12. "social media, the speed of information flow, exacerbates everything". Damn straight
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:48 AM
Nov 2014

I actually think that's a big piece of the problem, but I'm not sure on how to elaborate on that as of yet. It's something I've been thinking about a lot.

NRaleighLiberal

(60,014 posts)
19. I ponder it often - we react to minute results here and everywhere
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:53 AM
Nov 2014

but there is something harder to grasp that overlays it all. Keep thinking - I sure will!

carolinayellowdog

(3,247 posts)
75. 60 here-- just watched "I, Claudius" again and "republic vs. empire" hits too close to home
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:31 PM
Nov 2014

I was in my 20s when I saw it first, and the inevitable triumph of empire over republic seemed like it was all about people of 2000 years ago. Now, watching it again, it was all about US.

Tatiana

(14,167 posts)
13. I believe it is time to focus on our local elections.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:48 AM
Nov 2014

With the infiltration of corporate $$$ and big money, we really don't have much of a chance at the national level. If we take back these state legislatures, we can create fairer maps that will make Congressional districts competitive for Democrats/Progressives.

We need to do a lot things. First of all, we need to take back the local and county Democratic parties. The cronyism has to be expelled. Big money usually hedges their bets and donates to both Republicans and Democrats, but Democrats still rely on individual donors for support too. We need to stop financing this party until it responds to our interests and needs by recruiting and financing better candidates. We also need to a better job of recruiting and marketing our own candidates. There is a lot of grassroots talent out there. Zephyr Teachout... she needs a platform and we need to be working to make that happen for her.

Specifically, I think we need to recruit people at the local level who have a proven track record of service and who will be unlikely to be bought by special interests. We can implement a "farm system," so to speak, where our local candidates are then recruited to run for national office. The key is to establish a pipeline of talent and to not allow the corporate candidate to be "forced" upon us.

This will take years, likely decades. But we can't give up hope. We need to start somewhere.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
17. Yes, start with things like school boards.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:52 AM
Nov 2014

Wake County in NC threw at least 4 conservative incumbents out, replaced by progressives. It CAN happen.

enough

(13,259 posts)
20. Big money is now moving into small elections, a trend which will surely continue.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:53 AM
Nov 2014
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/31/us-usa-elections-money-idUSKBN0IK0BH20141031

Big money crops up in small elections in the United States
By Andy Sullivan Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:08am EDT

(Reuters) - Political groups that took advantage of loosened campaign-finance rules spent hundreds of millions of dollars in the 2012 U.S. presidential election. This year, they're cropping up in state and local races as well.

Wealthy individuals and interest groups of all stripes are increasingly setting up political committees that can steer unlimited sums to small-dollar contests for state legislature, sheriff and school board.

Four years after the Supreme Court ruled that Congress cannot restrict spending by political groups not directly affiliated with candidates, the "Super PACs" and other spending committees that sprung up in the wake of that decision are becoming a fixture in races farther down on ballot sheets, where their money can have a greater impact.

In some cases, they are looking to bypass a gridlocked Washington that likely will not be more productive after the Nov. 4 congressional elections. In other cases, local operators are adopting tactics first developed at the national level.

more at link>

Tatiana

(14,167 posts)
25. Absolutely. But you have a better shot at winning locally than nationally.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:02 PM
Nov 2014

Locally, you can go door to door. Locally, people are more likely to know you. It becomes harder to smear someone that others have had a positive experience with. This happened in one of my local elections for State Representative. The Republican Party and a PAC send out vicious flyers and put up some nasty ads against the Democratic candidate. However, most people in this town knew the Democrat, knew she was a fighter for the people when she was an Alderman and county board member. So, despite the lopsided advantage the Republican had in terms of campaign money, the Republican still lost.

She couldn't overcome the progressive candidate's proven track record of working for the people and progressive causes, as well as her grassroots organizing.

This is what we need to do locally. Then, once we have the formula down, export what we have learned to statewide and national elections.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
87. Chevron spent 3M in Richmond, CA and FAILED
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:53 PM
Nov 2014

in its attempt to install a pro-Chevron mayor and city council. the voters rejected the chevron trojan horses, and chevron's money and voted in the all the progressive candidates. we now have a liberal/progressive majority in city government. this gives a a tiny glimmer of hope.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
132. it helps that the city had to sue Chevron because of a fire
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:30 PM
Nov 2014

at its refinery a few years ago. and there is a tradition of liberalism in the bay area. the black panthers were founded here...the free speech movement...the hippies...bill graham and the music scene. i love living in a area with a bunch of raving liberals and progressives i will add: the chevron attack ads were really poorly made, and they went after THE PEOPLE's candidates: they are actually :gasp: progressive democrats you know, the kind some people claim cannot win.
here's precisely why the people want them to govern...not chevron or wells fargo:


Richmond's pioneering eminent-domain threat
Carolyn Said Updated 9:50 am, Wednesday, July 31, 2013

Taking a controversial plunge into uncharted waters, Richmond is poised to become the first city in the country to invoke eminent domain to address its foreclosure crisis.
"After years of waiting on the banks to offer up a more comprehensive fix or the federal government, we're stepping into the void to make it happen ourselves," Mayor Gayle McLaughlin said Tuesday.
On Monday the city sent letters to 32 banks and other mortgage holders offering to buy 624 underwater mortgages at discounts to the homes' current value. If the offers are spurned, the letter said Richmond may use the power of eminent domain to condemn the mortgages and seize them, paying court-determined fair market value.
The city would then help the underwater homeowners refinance into mortgages in line with their homes' current worth. City leaders said the goal is to stabilize the community and prevent foreclosures
Wall Street vehemently opposes the untested idea, claiming it violates property rights and would have a chilling effect on future mortgages in Richmond and could lead to years of costly litigation.
"We think it is unconstitutional, illegal and very bad policy," said Chris Killian, managing director of the Securities and Financial Markets Association, a trade group representing banks, securities firms and others.

Banks said future mortgages in Richmond would likely be much more expensive to compensate for the extra risk that the city could seize them. McLaughlin characterized that as "redlining" and said the city would fight it.
"Mortgage lending is a business, and lenders and mortgage investors have to say what kind of return they want and how much risk" they can tolerate, Killian said. "That's just the way markets work. If you buy a car and they say the brakes don't work all the time, would you pay full price?"
Wells Fargo, one of the largest mortgage holders in Richmond, said in a statement: "We believe this approach will harm mortgage investors, the housing market, and the communities and borrowers that its proponents claim they would be helping."
http://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/Richmond-s-pioneering-eminent-domain-threat-4695857.php

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
134. Ah yes, the fire.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:33 PM
Nov 2014

One of my favorite human beings lives just a few blocks from the refinery. Imagine my surprise when I clicked on the teevee that evening and saw that instead of Big Bang Theory.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
135. i remember it. i was living in oakland then
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:35 PM
Nov 2014

but i also have a friend who lives in richmond. i moved here a year ago, and i stay as far away from that place as possible.

Autumn

(45,084 posts)
14. I can't slam you cali, I agree with everything you said this is reality.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:49 AM
Nov 2014

What I can do is rec this OP.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
15. I agree with you mostly.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:49 AM
Nov 2014

I have been worrying about our Neo-fascist, hyper-christian fundamentalist, war hawks for quite some time. Heavily armed fanatics who are okay with the idea of an apocalypse and keep the area where their legends say Apocalypse is supposed to happen smoldering, make me nervous.

And it all boils down to the addiction to money.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
16. Agree
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:49 AM
Nov 2014

Biggest issue is with the majority of voters letting the media and ads do their thinking for them. They never seem to wise up.

The funny thing is, wasn't so long ago that people were proclaiming the end of the Republican Party was at hand. Now all we have is the President between us and total Repub control. And people seem to be counting on HRC to keep that in 2016, which is by no means a sure thing. Even if she wins we keep heading rightward.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
64. Indeed.. the veil is beginning to lift..
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:13 PM
Nov 2014

it's been true since, forever. Watching this for decades. hanging on to strands of "hope" since Jesse Jackson's run in the 80's.

I recently read The Tiger, very revealing look at the political machinations centered in New York's infamous "Tammany Hall from 1786 to 1961..





The first complete history of America’s most bizarre and longest-running political act. Stories of chicanery and finagling and rigged elections abound in this look at a bygone era in American politics.



The existence of Tammany Hall itself may have "fallen"over a half century ago, in terms of the building and individuals, it continues to this day.

In other words, "democracy" was a failed experiment since it's inception.






 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
23. Sadly, I agree
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:57 AM
Nov 2014

Liberal is a term that many run from, but I am feeling fearless this morning, so here goes:

"I am MissDeeds and I am a proud liberal!"

I feel better already. Hang in there cali.



K&R

world wide wally

(21,743 posts)
62. Has anybody else noticed that now they are replacing the term "liberal" with " socialist"?
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:11 PM
Nov 2014

I guess it's more scary that way

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
88. We've got posters here
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:53 PM
Nov 2014

that claim to be Democrats that are trying to turn the word "progressive" into a slur as well.

KG

(28,751 posts)
26. been laughing at notion that electing more dems would make the congress more liberal
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:03 PM
Nov 2014

that hilarity has been forwarded by DU's kings of condescension.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
31. Nothing happens quickly
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:10 PM
Nov 2014

Things have changed due to politics. It took a long time. Looking back, no one remembers.

Obama should have had a D Congress longer. Giving him two years and then giving up on him was not a good idea.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
32. Agree! The first step to change is an accurate, warts-and-all assessment of our predicament
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:11 PM
Nov 2014

I think you've summed things up very well, cali.

The people in denial remind me of toddlers who cover their own eyes and say "You can't see me!!"

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
34. I'll probably be more inclined to agree with you...
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:13 PM
Nov 2014

if Alabama doesn't beat Mississippi State Saturday. I'll definitely be in the Prozac.

But, if we start now, 2016 could be our comeback. You know, we were all so proud and elevated with the election of Obama. We'll get back there, more glass ceilings to break! The arc bends, right?

Personal rights and liberties have been growing. We may have more conservatives today, but progressive liberal expansions are in process. Many judicial courts are slapping down the conservative agendas, so it isn't just one this one election.

Buck up, Cali!

You're not alone!

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
68. No, with the exception of LGBT rights, liberties and rights have not been growing. Think
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:22 PM
Nov 2014

voting rights. Think reproductive rights.

Tumbulu

(6,278 posts)
35. i share your conclusions....but don't want to!
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:16 PM
Nov 2014

I just keep hoping that something new will materialize........And something can....look at this Pope Francis, he came out when most of the liberal Catholics that I know where in the deepest despair. Not that all is solved, but somehow some atmospheric change did occur.

It could happen for us as well. And President Obama has been handcuffed his entire presidency, who knows what will happen these next two years?

It could be that corporations themselves will take on the issues, as they are the defacto governing bodies.

I dont know, but I don't want to give up yet. In the meantime my daily life is where I put my energy, politics has become a multi billion dollar industry strikes me as almost as wasteful as the Military Industrial Complex. They are linked, though, as the politicians are needed to feed that cash cow.

Bettie

(16,109 posts)
36. I wish I could say I disagree
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:17 PM
Nov 2014

Or that I have hope for the future of our country, but I don't.

I am afraid for my kids and what they will grow up to face.

Puglover

(16,380 posts)
37. I was in Hong Kong right before the Brits
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:18 PM
Nov 2014

had to turn it back to China. I asked a lot of folks what they thought would happen. The universal answer, "Well Beijing is just so corrupt." I remember thinking at the time, "Thank God I live in the US."

And now? Well, suffice to say I agree with your post.

A year from now I will have left the US permanently. Except for nieces and nephews I really doubt that we will return here much if at all. I feel like a stranger in a strange land.

And I live in a solid blue state. Frankly we would probably have stayed if the winters up here were not 7 months long. I am old enough that want to wake up to green and sunshine.

bullwinkle428

(20,629 posts)
38. If a magic wand was waved and we suddenly had 350 Democrats in
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:22 PM
Nov 2014

the House and 70 Democratic Senators, the moneyed interests would still figure out a way to provide their river of cash to that majority in a way that would protect their holdings, and screw all of the "little people".

Again - agreeing with your sentiment that there is a genuine difference between the two parties when it comes to social issues (and may perhaps actually be widening at this point), but when it comes to fiscal issues, that line is apparently becoming blurrier every day.

snappyturtle

(14,656 posts)
39. I read about politics only to gage the situation i'm living. I don't
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:29 PM
Nov 2014

see any way out of the entanglement of big business and government. None.
Therefore, I am focusing on how best to survive my retirement years to leave
my children in a sustainable future before I leave the planet. eom

polichick

(37,152 posts)
43. That's about where I am, though...
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:43 PM
Nov 2014

I do hold out hope that people will finally come up with a way to turn things around - I keep watching for it.

snappyturtle

(14,656 posts)
49. Hope is for the future but I have to deal with the present. With that
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:50 PM
Nov 2014

being said, I believe the situation will resolve with people coming together
to form a parallel governance of sorts starting from the grass roots that
might over time cut the cord from the present system. Voting our way out
doesn't work...although I think it delays TPTB somewhat so I will continue
to vote. We can't physically fight them. They have us out numbered and
out gunned. Literally, we need to shun them out of existence.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
51. I could see it happening that way...
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:56 PM
Nov 2014

Interesting to think about from a big-picture anthropological point of view.

Like you, my husband and I are looking at the current situation and making careful decisions with our kids' futures in mind.

jeepers

(314 posts)
59. Parallel governance
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:05 PM
Nov 2014

An issue not candidate oriented electorate. A pure democracy. Can't get more grass roots than that. Vote them out of existence.

snappyturtle

(14,656 posts)
104. I've always been an issue oriented voter. Over the many years I've been
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:17 PM
Nov 2014

voting I have watched and painfully expeerienced how issues that
I voted for take a back seat or just fade into non-existence. I don't
feel we can not vote but must be ready for when voting doesn't
evolve into the panacea I've expected. I'm in the transistion now and
moving on with my Plan B....which is dealing with what I've been dealt.
imho

Nay

(12,051 posts)
77. That's where I'm at, too, Turtle. I will be OK in retirement unless we
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:31 PM
Nov 2014

Last edited Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:31 PM - Edit history (1)

have runaway inflation (which is very unlikely), and my focus has been on being a good grandma to my grandson and a good mom to my son.

I've also reduced my spending on 'stuff' to the minimum. I still sew, draw and paint, and read, but not at any spendy level. Think library, yard sales for fabric, Goodwill for clothing. I haven't been to the mall in a year. I have basically removed myself from the capitalist system as much as possible.

I also see no way out of this except by a total change of character in the American people. Sadly, I see this being brought about by dire poverty, blood in the streets, etc. As long as most people believe the boob tube, there's really no reason to believe things will change.

Edited to add: I often wish for a grassroots movement to form a separate society in the midst of the decaying one -- sorta like an Amish community, but without religion and sexism. Does that make sense?

snappyturtle

(14,656 posts)
121. Oh, I couldn't agree more with your comments....except maybe for inflation.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:59 PM
Nov 2014

Our nation has grown too fat in our standard of living and we need to
go on a diet! THEN, we will experience the resilience and ingenuity that
Americans possess to again be great. It will be long though for this to
come about.

I, too, have stopped buying...actually for 20 years now! For a time I
had no choice. What I learned was that I became so much less encumbered
and more able to enjoy the small joys. I feel as if I'm paying myself! Yes,
at times I indulge but by most folks' standards it's meager. I never do so
without much forethought.

Why do folks consume so much...the momentary personal gain is only worth
something to the profit lines of those who have made our lives more miserable
by the decade. I'm wondering what the Christmas season will bring? More companies
closing up? More job losses? We should all know by now that many companies,
most, in my book, will do whatever they deem necessary to protect the bottom
line for the CEOs and stockholders. Well, they can count me out. We hit them
in the pocket book. Sure, there probably will be job loss because of such a
tactic, but....their downsizing and shipping jobs overseas needs to end.

Sorry for the rant. Of course all of it is imho.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
156. Don't apologize! It's a nice rant. Like you, I've always lived thriftily even though
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:22 PM
Nov 2014

Mr Nay and I both had high-paying jobs before we retired. We have all used furniture, didn't go on expensive trips, don't eat out much, etc., even though we theoretically have the money to do it.

When I retired, I even started giving away stuff I had accumulated and used throughout the last 20 years. I never was an accumulator of material things, but I still had more than I needed. So I've been weeding out my books, furniture, clothes, etc., so I can enjoy space rather than things. And yes, my indulgences are pretty small, too!

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
42. Won't go that far, but to some extent, this is true. Also,
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:43 PM
Nov 2014

people aren't voting. Not in the numbers they should.

If you surrender, guess what, you lose. Not sure how to form that into a message that can be communicated to those we want help increase voter participation, though.

progressoid

(49,990 posts)
44. The system has been corrupt for a long time.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:44 PM
Nov 2014

I think a lot of us were lulled into a false sense that it was changing a few years ago.

It's going to take something huge to change the direction of this country.

Uben

(7,719 posts)
45. We'll get a redo....
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:44 PM
Nov 2014

...it's just a matter of when. In our lifetime? Maybe, maybe not. But I see nothing short of catastrophe that'll alter the direction we are headed. It'll happen......and that's a fact!

EEO

(1,620 posts)
46. “You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.”
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:45 PM
Nov 2014

Attributed to Winston Churchill. No always true, though. An loud, ignorant minority is a cancer that serves as useful idiots for the rich and will be the downfall of the middle class and the poor.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
50. excellent assessment.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:51 PM
Nov 2014

From a Buddhist perspective, no one can rely on political or other structures to change a society. Change has to start within the individual. Societies are made up of individuals, so.......

_/\_

Paper Roses

(7,473 posts)
83. I am also in my 70's. At that time, life was good--so I thought.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:48 PM
Nov 2014

As time passes, life has not been as simple.
College, marriage, work, 2 kids then small family business to run. Closed that and went to work elsewhere. Had a great job but it moved south. Could not find another.
Paid all that is due to everyone, went years without vacation in order to educate kids.
Tried to get along, lost husband, lost job, cannot afford to live in my house any longer.

Please tell me, all world things considered, what the heck is better now than it was then?
Even the music was better back then.
Elvis lives!

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
105. Here is what that society you long for put on my second ballot as a voting adult:
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:19 PM
Nov 2014

"Prohibit gays and supporters of gay rights from teaching in public schools - Yes or No"

When I was born, straight folks were still putting us in jail and in the mental wards. To you, that was better?
Let me ask you this: do you think I should long for jail so that you could have more money again? Or can you understand that the time that was great for you had a price paid by others?

Paper Roses

(7,473 posts)
120. When I was young in the 50's and 60's, we were naive. No mention of gays, or any other
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:56 PM
Nov 2014

of today's major issues. I was 15 to 18. My greatest concern at the time was a date for the prom, -or for that matter, at date at all. Would I pass my Latin test, did I do my algebra homework correctly. Would Mom let me wear lipstick? Could I go for an overnight at a girlfriends house? Can I have loafers instead of tie shoes. Yes, the time was different.

I think you are much younger than I. Issues that never hit the news then are now a major concern. I do remember the 'good old days' but recognize that the world is a different place.

I have no issue with you. You must understand that, as young kids at that time, we never heard about 90% of the things that now are headlines.
I have children and grandchildren and I know their thoughts are liberal. Mine are too.

My family never had any money. I don't either. This fact has not affected my liberal attitude. I support gay rights, women's rights, I'm anti-war, ad infinitum. You misread me or I did not post clearly. MY fault? I apologize.


 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
201. Oh hell I was too young to appreciate the 50's but the 60's were fucking awesome.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:22 PM
Nov 2014

Sure we got murdered a lot, but life was lived large, life was cheap, life was fun, and freedom was on the march.

 

Old Codger

(4,205 posts)
53. As I have stated
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:59 PM
Nov 2014

The "great Experiment" is over, it was fun for a while but it ended up a failed disaster...Greed and corruption prevailed, the replacement for democracy turns out to be corrupt oligarchy and a type of selective anarchy...

riqster

(13,986 posts)
54. Surrender is not "reality". It's an emotional label born of despair.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:00 PM
Nov 2014

Quit if you like, but I refuse to give up.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
60. no, this is an intellectual assessment, not an emotional one.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:06 PM
Nov 2014

and it's not really about "surrender". It's about looking at reality without false bravado or rose colored lenses.

riqster

(13,986 posts)
63. Not buying it. Your post is riddled with imprecision and generalizations.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:12 PM
Nov 2014

Not the mark of an intellectual argument.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
70. lol. compared to your posts, it's a beacon of intellectual purity.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:24 PM
Nov 2014

guess what, hon? Declarative statements with zero to back it up, doesn't cut shit. It's a massive fail. and you are one of the most over wrought posters on DU, rig, old pal.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
89. It's pathetic because rig seems to think he's so above us all that he has no need
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:01 PM
Nov 2014

to actually explain why my op is so lacking. It's just arrogant to make that declaration without even pointing out one thing that was in error.

 

LawDeeDah

(1,596 posts)
56. Fix the media and all else is possible.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:02 PM
Nov 2014

How to do that, I sure don't know. The few who control the word are not going to give it up and blogs and facebook posts are not going to make a substitute for mass media.

appalachiablue

(41,131 posts)
98. Agree that Fix the MEDIA is critical but rarely brought up. Huge blind spot.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:14 PM
Nov 2014

Blogs and social media don't come close to the dominance of M$M that plenty of educated, open minded folks still follow, unaware that media is CONSOLIDATED and CORPORATE RW for some time. Seeking news via the Internet solely is fantasy. Does it occur to liberals that some people cannot afford home internet service, esp. these days. FOX and RW Radio are free and accessible, heard in homes, offices, stores, motel lobbies. The result is clear.

The OP is correct in my view. Democracy is lost at this point. I too thought the 2008 Burndown would generate change for the better. Nope. What it will take I don't know. Very concerned about the younger ones, the Lost Generation millenials. I saw that Thom Hartmann wrote a Truthout article on this group recently. I'd been thinking this for three years. Grassroots progressivism and liberalism are the only possibility. Will not vote HRC unless no other choice. For me it's Bernie, Warren, Grayson, Dean.

 

Rhinodawg

(2,219 posts)
65. I take my advice from Josey Wales...you should too.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:13 PM
Nov 2014
" Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is. "

Uben

(7,719 posts)
71. Worms gotta eat, too.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:24 PM
Nov 2014

I've seen that movie so many times! One of my favorite parts is where the old indian was telling about how the president of the U.S. dressed them in coats and top hats and told them to "Endeavor to persevere". That's basically what our leaders are telling us.

Vinca

(50,271 posts)
72. I don't know your age, but I suspect this is most apparent to the older DU participants.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:24 PM
Nov 2014

Sometimes I find myself going into geezer mode preferring to remember the past rather than look to the future. When Republicans go batsh*t crazy over an agreement that might someday allow the people of Beijing to walk around WITHOUT protective masks, there's little hope for this once great country.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
80. Great post cali. I don't see this as "surrender", just seeking another path to victory. Keep up ..
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:33 PM
Nov 2014

... the fight!

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
85. I basically agree with most of this. One thing I'd add though:
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:49 PM
Nov 2014

Obamacare (if it survives) really is a big deal. It deserves to be there next to GLBT rights as a bright spot.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
102. you are correct, and it saddens me
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:16 PM
Nov 2014

GLBTQ people are finally being treated like humans, and people can now afford to go to the doctor. meanwhile, wages are stagnant, people are being brutalized for breathing while not white, rents are skyrocketing (at least here in the bay area, ca) and there doesn't seem to be any hope of change, at least not in the next two years. it saddens me that our expectations of government have been so diminished by our corporate overlords.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
140. the thing with minorities and police has always been around, the difference now is there are
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:59 PM
Nov 2014

more cameras around making cops less likely to get away and communities are more likely to protest.

but there is still racism.

in the old days people would have said, yeah, he killed the black kid but we don't agree a white person should be punished for such a thing. now it's saying that the black kid did something to cause their own death.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
183. it sure is, and let's be frank: it an attitude that is not confined to just republicons
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:42 PM
Nov 2014

or conservatives. even some people HERE blamed trayvon martin! there is an article about race that lays it all out here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=383817

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
86. Of all the superduper posters
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:50 PM
Nov 2014

You are the only one that brings the mental chops to the job. There is an authenticity to your posts that has yet to set off my sockpuppet alarm.

That being said, it appears that the great crisis facing our current set of generations is that of the corporate takeover of the United States. Unless we pull together and recognize this fundamental threat to civil liberties, this will be a crisis that will undo us.

Working within the system will fail at this point. Propaganda manipulates too many, keeps us fighting each other, and distracts us to the assault currently in progress.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
103. There are a few folks here that post
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:16 PM
Nov 2014

40-plus entries each day on average, if they post 7-days a week 365 days a year. They have posting numbers that exceed 100,000 posts in less than 10 years.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
91. we need an American Spring
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:05 PM
Nov 2014

but most americans are too lazy/complacent/resigned/dumb to get off their asses and take to the streets. we need daily, massive protests in every major city. of course the media will ignore/minimize/dismiss but i don't think anything else will get their attention. not voting, not GOTV...nothing. my only glimmer of hope is that i live in Richmond, CA where the voters just told Chevron to go fuck it's self. we have a progressive mayor, and a progressive (majority) city council. the voter's soundly rejected Chevron's attempt to install its chosen candidates. i am going to focus on elected progressives at the local level.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
168. any ideas?
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:52 PM
Nov 2014

i think income inequity is a huge issue that could galvanize people. a lot of people are suffering right now because they cannot find work, or cannot find a job that pays a decent wage. yet, UI benefits have not been extended, and we cannot get a jobs bill passed. but preserving ridiculously low tax rates for the wealthiest 1%...our government can do that.
it is clear to me, at least, that whatever is going in DC is not working for the majority of americans. Make American work for the People, not JUST for corporations. fucking corporations are people, according to the idiots on SCOTUS...that's how far we've gone down this absurd conservative rabbit hole. it is insane. there has to be something we can do about it.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
173. Socialism and communism have produced the strongest resistance
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:04 PM
Nov 2014

So that seems like a good start. However we killed them and to be frank, that was the only framework that actually worked to both provoke change and keep the capital class on their toes. Barring that, I've got nothing, and the fact those ideologies have largely passed away doesn't bode well for the population's ability to resist.

LeftInTX

(25,327 posts)
92. Agree
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:08 PM
Nov 2014

I do think there is some hope. GOTV isn't a lost cause. I'm thinking of joining my local League of Women Voters. They have voter register drives.

A Dem State Sen in Texas is proposing a voter education class for TX high school students. I hope it passes. Even if it doesn't pass, she has planted an idea.

I've always thought the Democratic shift to the right was a response to rebuild the party and establish winning candidates after the 1972 defeat and the "Reagan Revolution". The Republicans shifted to the left during the New Deal era. (1933-1980) I think we're still in the Reagan Revolution era and Democrats are still the underdogs despite wins. I like to think that our core beliefs are still there.

Unfortunately, there are things beyond our control that have challenged our core beliefs. For example: Union membership versus outsourcing etc. In the 80s corporations relocated to right-to-work, low tax, low regulation states. I saw this happen with Kimberly-Clark. They moved their sprawling headquarters from small town Neenah, WI to Irving TX. Employers like this are sending a strong message that overrides political beliefs. In the 2000s they started moving to other countries. What can we do? How do we adapt?


Lastly, I wish we could clone President Obama and put him in every community in America. Every community needs a Barack Obama.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
96. GOTV can't be one day, one week, even one month.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:13 PM
Nov 2014

It's what you do every single day, talking to your neighbours and coworkers, pointing out the logical flaws in right wing ideology, the science that shows they're simply wrong, the many people hurt by it, and the few who profit. The way in which who controls DC, who controls the state capitol, who controls the schoolboard actually affects what happens to everyone underneath each. Surely and steadily leading them back to the left, to sanity. Do it right and you'll never once have to tell them to vote for candidates to the left, they'll simply mention it to you, after they vote. Heck, they might even try to make sure YOU get out to vote for lefties. At which point you can thank them and say that sounds like a good idea.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
95. Depressing, isn't it?
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:13 PM
Nov 2014

We learned about declining empires and democracies fallen to tyranny as kids in school, probably never imagining that ours was already well on the same path.

I just wonder where it ends. How far will we regress before people wake up?

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
97. I don't brush off the LGBT rights accomplishments like you do. That happened due to polical and
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:13 PM
Nov 2014

cultural work. You dismiss it as unimportant right off the top then avoid drawing any positive conclusions from the facts of this progress.
Largest expansions of civil rights since the 60's. But it's nothing to you.
The second ballot I voted on in 1978 had a yes or no question that sticks in my mind when people say elections and politics do not matter:
"Prohibit gays and supporters of gay rights from teaching in public schools - Yes or No"

Russell Brand would say 'either way, what does it matter, voting is worthless'.

I don't agree. Only those born to the manor would agree with that shit.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
107. +1
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:22 PM
Nov 2014

Some people only care about what personally affects them, and have a chip on their shoulder when they perceive that their issues aren't taking priority over those of others. That's a classic sign of entitlement, and you see it here all the time.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
157. And my entire point is that if you deal in reality and don't say 'exemptions for LGBT progress'
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:26 PM
Nov 2014

you might see more progress than those who say 'aside from those gays'. 'Aside from that, how did you like the play, Mrs Lincoln'.
If we exempt from consideration all the progress made, there has been no progress made, thus proving that progress is impossible.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
108. I didn't brush it off at all. It's important. I noted that. But it is not more important than
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:22 PM
Nov 2014

other things. It is not more important than the curtailing of voting rights which codifies racism. It is not more important than the loss of reproductive rights for women.

You have a lot of fucking nerve to claim I brushed it off and that it's nothing to me when I made clear the opposite of that.

Playing your nasty little game, dear, it's clear you don't give a fuck about racism or women's rights.

You only care about one issue. It's clear you only care about yourself.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
138. Your personal attack is noted. You exclude LGBT issues to serve your point then when that is pointed
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:52 PM
Nov 2014

out you just get mean. Your insults are unwarranted and dishonest. And not a comment about what I actually posted.
Once you see a ballot line like the one I cited you will always vote. I don't see things the way you do. And I don't have to. Instead of attacking, you should consider how it is that we make progress while you claim progress is impossible.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
151. Who's twisting whom? All I said is that I do not see things the way you do. Is that a sin?
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:13 PM
Nov 2014

Look, you conclude that there is no hope for any progress. I live in a world made of progress. I see those changes as very important and tied to all sort of other social movements and struggles for equality. You don't see them the same way because we are different people.
I offer than listening to the perspective of those whose lives are different from our own is a valuable practice. You said change is impossible so I point out that you are glossing over major changes wrought by living people with the vote and the power of the word. Then you attacked me.
I hope you understand that we will not stop making progress just to please the pessimists and cynics. You do as you please, others will do the same.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
155. I dunno...
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:19 PM
Nov 2014

In terms of economics things are really very bad, while there has been progress in the LGBT front racially based civil rights are regressing and wealth inequality is pretty extreme and set to get worse. Things may be OK in your neck of the woods but Oregon is not the nation and you'll get dragged down too if things continue at this rate.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
174. Like I don't know all of those things? LGBT equality issues are to a large degree economic issues
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:14 PM
Nov 2014

All of the issues we have in common are issues we have in common. What will drag us down is this certainty and cynicism that there is no hope for progress. I think it would do others well to not put LGBT progress aside but instead to consider it as another issue we all have in common and I think that if folks did that, they might not be so ready to announce there is no hope.
My point is that people have and will continue to make progress, no matter what the fuck cynics believe is possible. Some of us can not afford the luxury of wasting any shot, no matter how long it might be.
I've heard this pessimistic crap my entire life. It bores me and gets no one anything.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
106. Cali, I am very much with you.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:20 PM
Nov 2014

I have been saying for about twenty years now that this country is already on its long and slow decline. I'm pretty sure that a hundred or more years from now, when historians are looking back, they will clearly date the start of this decline to the election of Ronald Reagan, and the continued build-up of our military despite the end of the Cold War. Ever since then our various administrations have done a very good job of finding excuses for wars and spent ever more on our military while neglecting anything that might contribute to the common good, such as education, health care, and infrastructure.

Underlying all this has been the enormous transfer of wealth to the upper classes, mostly to the top 1% as we all famously know.

A couple of years ago I read something that pointed out England and Spain were roughly co-equal world powers in the 20th century and both were busily exploring and conquering the world. But Spain elected to have low taxes on the rich and did not invest in things like education or civic infrastructure, did not structure things so that there could be upward social and economic mobility. England did the opposite. And it didn't take very long for only one of those countries to become *the* dominant world power, and the other to become a backwater, which it has remained today.

We are currently going down the road Spain took 500 years ago.

kydo

(2,679 posts)
109. No slam. I agree with you. But here is what helps me.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:24 PM
Nov 2014

That one prayer, The Serenity Prayer. The Genius prayer makes me LOL. But that serenity one has a wonderful way of allowing me to focus on what I can do as opposed to just being frustrated with what I can't. The Genius one, well like I said it makes me lol.

Serenity Prayer

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things that I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Genius Prayer

God grant me the courage to change the things I can not accept,
serenity to accept the things I just changed,
and the wisdom to know that I am different.

BTW all my therapists have field day with me on that whole accepting thing. Yeah, I am probably nuts but that's ok, I usually have harmless fun.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
226. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:26 AM
Nov 2014

the courage to change the things that I can,
and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they PISSED ME OFF!!

turbinetree

(24,701 posts)
111. Really
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:25 PM
Nov 2014

Go to a right wing council meeting and protest what the right wing city council is doing, go to the school board that wants to rip pages out of biology books, continue to make the facts be known, and eventually the media and the reporter will have to report what is going on, some one will pick up on this and get the real story and if not , rent a bill board, stand on a street corner with others that want change for the better, it only takes 1 hour or less do something, its called the ground game and its time to take the ground and hold it and outflank these right wing jerks

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
113. I've been a lurker since 2002, joined in 2005.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:31 PM
Nov 2014

This election is the most depressed I have been since 2004. I fear that there is going to be a civil war or a revolution in this country if things keep going down this path.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
115. Well, that's a pretty comprehensive pessimistic view of it all, isn't it?
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:33 PM
Nov 2014

OK. Clearly, that's how you feel about it. I guess you'll be watching what happens.

For me, what is clear is that we have a job to do, and that job is educating people. It appears that low-information Americans are simply avoiding participation in choosing elected officials. That has never seemed more clear to me than after this mid-term election.

However, instead of declaring the United States to be finished, for all intents and purposes, it has solidified my belief that we have a lot of work to do in educating Americans. What I've found in my door-knocking work over the years is that people don't vote because they don't know what the issues are and what the candidates' positions are on those issues.

That's why my strategy has always been to ask everyone I talk to what issues are of most concern to them. Then, I refer to my knowledge of what individual candidates believe about those issues and help them understand which candidates are going to try to help solve those particular problems.

Problem is, though, that I only reach the voters in my little precinct, which has only just over 1000 registered voters. When I do, I manage to convince a number of them to go to the polls and vote in their own interest and in the interest of improving their little corner of society.

Like many, I tend to hang around on a website that more or less believes as I do. I spend too much time here, I believe. Instead, I need to spend more time trying to provide information to low-information people, and less time preaching to a choir of high-information people who are already active in politics. So, I need to check my priorities and see if I can't find ways to reach a larger audience of people who can change their views and become part of the process. Here, everyone is already part of the process.

We need to reach out and educate those who need that education. We aren't doing that on DU. So, my resolution is to find new ways to talk to people who will benefit. As I find those ways, I'll share them here. I've already shared my precinct canvassing strategy, and my precinct does vote. They vote for progressives. Every Democratic or progressive candidate on the ballot we voted on won. Every last one of them. I'm encouraged by that, and hope to influence people outside of my limited area. We'll see how I find ways to do that.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
143. The left has been "educating" for decades
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:04 PM
Nov 2014

And has slipped into irrelevancy. Your advice is obsolete junk.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
146. Disagree all you like
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:08 PM
Nov 2014

Anyone who looks at the history of the left will see your platitudes and obsolete advice screaming at them from the pages. I bid you to take a deeper analysis and start working beyond failed methods or you are part of the problem.

angrychair

(8,699 posts)
116. I agree Cali
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:37 PM
Nov 2014

I understand some commenter's want and need for a positive attitude and to hold out hope but the fix is already in:
8% of the world's population holds 52% of its wealth (2010)

68% of the world's population only holds 4.2% of its wealth (2010)

http://inequality.org/global-inequality/

Can't say what the solution is to our issue but I do know that more of the same is not going to fix it.

No wonder I'm angry


 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
118. With all due respect, this is ridiculous
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:44 PM
Nov 2014
"The Democratic Party has drifted steadily to the right"-as compared to when? When the party embraced white supremacy for the better part of a century or so (the "Solid South&quot , when civil rights for women or ethnic and racial minorities-to say nothing of LGBT rights, the accomplishments of which you so casually dismiss-were not even on the radar? When the party willingly and enthusiastically "purged" all socialists and Communists (late 1940s) during the height of the Cold War?

As far as corporate control of the political process goes-that is nothing new. Read about the Gilded Age. The only reason that that was ever counterbalanced was because of decades of labor organizing that was outside the formal electoral process. The primary beneficiaries of unions were white men, who enjoyed higher wages than working-class women and minorities for a long time. Ever notice how it was RACE that fractured the Democratic Party in the 1960s, along with issues relating to sexuality and gender roles (white evangelical Protestants began organizing politically as a Republican-voting bloc soon thereafter; many of them had been Democrats, but that changed when the Democrats became associated with feminists, the pro-choice movement, the gay rights movement, as well as expanding civil rights for racial and ethnic minorities). And of course, who could forget all the support the Democrats lost over Vietnam?

Ever notice that Reagan was elected with a lot of votes from white people-particularly, white people with higher than average incomes? That wasn't a coincidence. The people who voted for Reagan voted for anti-union, pro-corporate, anti-choice, anti-gay, and anti-worker policies-even though, amazingly, many of those voters said in exit polls that they did not support Reagan's expressed policies!. But it was never a majority of people, even if it was a majority of voters. Turnout wasn't particularly high in the 1980s.

A lot of what we are dealing with now has to do with this history. Political and social history is never neat or clean, and progress is NOT linear. There's no guarantee that progressive policies will win. Don't take anything for granted.



 

cali

(114,904 posts)
122. over the last 40 years or so.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:59 PM
Nov 2014

Democrats have not embraced white supremacy over that period. And sorry, but corporate control and influence has decidedly become more entrenched over that same period of time. More entrenched than at any time since the Gilded Age. A period, I'm quite familiar with, my dear. No one seriously argues differently.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
124. the money came from 0.2% of the population
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:08 PM
Nov 2014

Does that mean MOST of the money, or all of it?

If it is the latter, then I, myself, am in that 0.2% of the population, since I donated about $100 to three different candidates.

Hard to believe that I could be part of 0.2% who were donors, if the group is really that small.

ChiciB1

(15,435 posts)
128. Your Comments Sound So Much Like Mine...
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:13 PM
Nov 2014

I could add more myself. As a very long time activist who felt if enough people came together "we the people" were able to have our voices heard, and we DID have some success. Plus the Democratic Party had a lot more unity even though there was a lot of diversity.

Today, it's almost impossible to to get much attention regardless of what we do. I know this country has gone through tough times, revolution, upheaval and a long list of situations, but too many people just aren't paying attention. However, that's not the worst of it. For me it's amazing how LITTLE people today simply don't have a clue about how our government works, don't know who the Vice President is, any Supreme Courts Justices, how the House works vs the Senate and then what a President can and can't do. On the state and local level it's even worse, many don't even know who their Governor is, which party controls legislation, don't even know who represents them nationally or in their own district at the state level. Many have no idea who their mayor is! AND, they don't even care! I've had to give up trying to educate others, too many just don't have enough time to listen. We know this list could go on and on ad infinitum, but the real slap in the face is when they ask you "don't you ever have anything else to talk about?"

As the Repukes play the game, if you tell a lie over and over and enough, there comes a time they believe the lie as TRUTH!

Throw in how many of us feel that the Democratic Party we belong to really won't fight back! We really are an Oligarchy, which is another kettle of fish... people don't know what an OLIGARCHY is!

So it seems we're dealing with a very uninformed, indifferent society which is EXACTLY how politicians want it to be. We can blame our own citizens for this ignorance, but our leaders who are elected by so few people should be doing their real job. They should be promoting democracy, but they really want to keep people listening to the lies so they can keep playing games and playing hooky from THEIR CLASS room! Their greed knows no bounds.

Really didn't intend for this to be so long, but this is just the tip of the iceberg! So I agree with you and am one very, very fed up citizen who would love to "believe" that the whole of America is included and those in power give a rat's ass!




Cleita

(75,480 posts)
136. We have a corrupted system in Washington DC that operates much like
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:35 PM
Nov 2014

Middle Age Europe. We just have different names for our kings and lords. The same kind of back stabbing politics apply when the wrong side is in power with no regard as to how these tactics affect the ordinary American. Instead of wars each side achieves power with corrupted elections. There is nothing new here, just a different battleground and the Democrats are sorely outmanuevered. The end game is to ensure the economic enrichment and comfort of the entitled few.

I have hopes for our
States preserving democracy. We seem to be achieving this on the West Coast and I hope inthe future it becomes a trend for other states to follow. Washington DC will probably collapse on its own eventually.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
137. As an ex-patriate, I can say that I look at the United States
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:50 PM
Nov 2014

with growing wonderment, disbelief and horror. The dysfunction is epic; the hatred, corruption, sheer stupidity boggles the mind. Bizarrely, the tension and dis-ease is palpable, and I feel it every time I return to the country. Even more bizarrely, our elites, with a few exceptions, seem totally unaware of the scope of the problem, and the attendant dangers not just to us, and our system of government, but to the whole planet and every living thing on it. The media in particular is clueless. The Republican party is well around the bend, but the Democratic party is if anything even more delusional, or craven, or both.

A republic, if we could keep it...we didn't, and I don't think that is recoverable. What is even more disturbing is that we have unleashed our totally-unsustainable "culture" on the world, and it has entered the cancerous-growth stage.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
139. in this past election Republicans did not run on the usual hate and it's one reason they won
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:56 PM
Nov 2014

there weren't people like the rape candidates , the crazy person that ran against Reid saying crazy things which get people to come out and stop them from getting into office.

they stayed away from the religious, anti gay, anti women stuff. yes, their actual positions still suck but that's how they get into office.

i don't see how this is different from anything. just look at how popular Reagan was and how he got into office .

i also don't see a time when America was so great for most people .

we have problems for sure, many having to do with new tech and people caring more about fame, getting rich quick and all the other crap.

people also are doing things at local and state level .

Cosmocat

(14,564 posts)
141. I am pretty much exactly where you are
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:00 PM
Nov 2014

this from the last 25 years.

My political awakening started in the 90s, I was completely flummoxed at 1) how vile and caustic republicans were toward a good, and likeable president. I just did not get it. 2) how the media passively allowed completely senseless republican bullshit to be advanced unchallenged without even trying to counter with reality and fact.

I was stupefied at how this country elected a halfwit, hapless son of privilege over a decent and honest man in 2000, and how the republicans were able to totally control the country for 6 years as a result of 9-11, something that happened under his watch, but was spun to him somehow making us safe.

The only blip in the republican advance toward something they don't even know what it might look like was 06 to 10, and we got watered down gains with a D president and congress.

I like most here held out hope that demographics would take the steam out of the Rs over time.

But, 2010 was brutal wakeup, and increasingly since then I have become more sober. There was no reason, absolutely none for them to be given any power in DC, and they won record margins. Knowing this I just tuned out to this last disaster - I worked my poll and voted, but otherwise I just was resigned to what happened before it did.

Things are exactly how they were in the 90s, but WORSE.

The reality is, this country is so affluent in its lifestyle, that the Rs can do what they do - spin their bullshit and people here just gobble it up.

There is a chance, as with BHO, and maybe Hillary, that a big star candidate can create enough energy to get a good turn in a Presidential, but outside of that, this thing is cooked - democrats won't turn out enough in other elections and this country just won't hold them accountable for it, so Rs will continue to gerrymander and limit the right to vote unchecked.


True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
142. Read some history, Captain Sunshine.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:04 PM
Nov 2014

Whatever Golden Age you're comparing the present to only existed in some WASP prep school. Life in general is significantly better for a lot more people than ever before.

You're like those people who bypass 99% of Detroit to take black and white pictures of abandoned buildings and make collages titled "The Fall of American Civilization."

I am seriously tired of people making up their own reality to suit their emotions. How do the minimum wage hikes and marijuana liberalization laws passed by the voters fit your self-indulgent narrative of decline? How does the ever-increasing Republican desperation to exclude as many people as possible from voting fit with your image of America's trajectory?

How about the logarithmic, Moore's Law-like decline in the price of solar energy?

How about Tesla Motors, SpaceX, and Solar City?

How about millions of Americans now having healthcare who didn't before?

There has never, ever been a time in human history when people with your attitude couldn't write freaking War and Peace treatises on how much everything sucks and how much better the Good Ole Days were.

Well guess what...they weren't. Young people were drafted and their lives thrown away as cannon fodder by the tens of thousands, and before that and in other countries by the millions.

There were dress codes on college campuses, and people obeyed their elders and the authorities, because they were brought up by parents who beat them with belts and wooden planks if they talked back.

Women were not concerned with the percentage of strong female characters in movies - they were concerned about being allowed to join professional organizations and have jobs other than school teacher or nurse.

All of America was Ferguson, Missouri. Every last street.

Americans Followed The Leader to the brink of Nuclear Armageddon, then decided everything was a joke and elected a fucking actor sociopath to pretend to be a President.

And you think this era is a decline from that?

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
169. progressive politics =/= progressive fallacy, two different things
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:58 PM
Nov 2014

The progressive fallacy is the mistaken historical analysis that things are always improving for everyone on average and the future will always be even better. This is in contrast to the regressive fallacy which says the past was always better and we are always degenerating.

The thing about both of these is that they are fallacies and not born out of a serious study of history in a global sense, and are always nearly grounded in a regional and/or chronological frame that leads to the fallacy.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
194. I won't deny being fond of whig historiography.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:11 PM
Nov 2014

But I think you're mistaking the inherent arbitrariness of frames of reference for a "fallacy."

The only way you can say anything about a change in society is by defining some window of time as your reference frame.

If you asked about life in New York City and defined your reference frame as 1955-1975, the prognosis would be pretty grim, wouldn't it? Basically that Kurt Russell movie - chaotic, dystopian ruins. But if you extend the frame to now, you get a different set of good and bad circumstances: Urban renewal, but gentrification. Less crime, but more arrogant and abusive policing trying to rationalize itself on that basis. Less extreme poverty, but more people caught in poverty overall due to class immobilization. And, of course, if you extended the picture back to 1910, 21st century New York City looks utopian.

But here's the thing: The broader the picture, the more optimistic. In other words, you have to very carefully choose a frame to find a negative interpretation. That doesn't suggest to me a progressive fallacy - that suggests to me that optimism is rational and pessimism is a highly selective and arbitrary interpretation that one has to deliberately seek out to justify.

Here's what's actually worse about the present than the past:

Attention Deficit Disorder is now the standard brain configuration due to how information is presented electronically.

Multi-tasking limits the ability to correlate the massive amounts of discrete information at our disposal.

The leveling of information access has erased otherwise crucial distinctions of authority that once drew clear lines between credible facts and nutbar conspiracy theories.

Social media superficialize relationships and drain primal energies from community networks and protest movements, making them more transient and fragile.

Politics have been decoupled from economics, leading to the enrichment of authoritarian foreign powers and the enshrinement of libertarian cultural attitudes.

The increasing ubiquity of entertainment and advertising for generations has meant that children are, to an accelerating extent, raised by entertainment corporations and ad agencies rather than networks of physically present human beings.

Now, why can I say this and be optimistic? Because all of these problems arise from otherwise good things: The internet, the ubiquity of mobile communications, open information access, the ability to communicate with millions of other people at a time, the failure of globally relevant totalitarianism in the 20th century, and the relative wealth that drives the creation of distractions. Problems based on over-abundance of a good thing are self-correcting, because the solutions arise out of the same over-abundance.

It's always dawn somewhere, and the reciprocal fact isn't a problem because night holds no terrors for enlightened minds.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
165. gee honeypie, I guess that MA in history doesn't count.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:48 PM
Nov 2014

first of all, pumpkin, I have oft posted that there is no golden age. so bzzzt, fail, my sweet, on your first baseless claim.

(OK, I did go to some "WASP prep school", but no that wasn't what I was taught at Simon's Rock)

And seriously, minimum wage hikes and marijuana laws are some weak sauce. They hardly constitute support for your, er, argument.

Desperate republicans are now in charge of Congress and even when they were in the minority they managed to manipulate rather effectively.

It's convenient for your delusional and ignorant narrative to ignore the reality of greater corporate control than we've seen in over a century, in income inequality that is greater than at any time in over 70 years. Solar energy? How about the massive increase in fracking and dirty energy? Which do you think is having more of an impact? And of course, you ostriches entirely ignore such things as climate change.

reality. try it, honey.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
184. "Weak sauce" compared to what?
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:55 PM
Nov 2014

Minimum wages in this country have never gone down by an act of law. Not under Ronald Reagan, not under George W. Bush, never. You can complain that they slip against inflation while governments fail to act, but that's a pretty weak complaint to justify apocalyptic moaning.

And marijuana legalization, my God, is there amnesia in the air? It was the linchpin of the War on Drugs - the "hippie" symbol that caused Nixon to launch persecutions nationwide, and the subject of Reagan's demented propaganda campaigns telling teenagers that if they smoked a joint they'd be turning tricks on the street for a heroin fix by the next weekend. The whole War on Drugs house of cards has begun to collapse.

Yes, Republicans are in control of Congress - which gives them the ability to continue obstructing progress a little while longer, nothing more. They face demographic annihilation and they know it.

Yes, there is greater corporate control now, whereas in the past we were controlled by far more delightful characters - the military, the Mafia, the Ku Klux Klan, and the WASP prep school elite.

You think we're worse off now because corporate executives buy favorable policies than we were when policies were largely fictional because real day-to-day authority was held by gangsters, terrorists, and soldiers? Think our politics are more exclusionary than when they were controlled by Mayflower descendents who considered anyone whose family came to America after 1750 a "suspicious immigrant"? Any of these "banksters" we get so hyperbolic about throw anyone in a river in pieces or firebomb the property of people who are late on payments?

As for energy, you're talking about an instant slice in time, and I'm talking about trends. You tell me what this graph says to you about the future:

[img][/img]

Solar is not a competitor for fossil fuels. It's the asteroid coming for the dinosaurs.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
179. Yes people over look that
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:32 PM
Nov 2014

Look at how many states have gay marriage now - when that "liberal" Nixon was in office, that wasn't even dreamed of.

Medical advances that mean you don't have full on surgery for some thing but day surgery.

Communications explosion - I remember the days before the internet, cell phones, etc.

Women can have children whether married or not, without being practically excluded from society and forced to give the child up for adoption. They can go into any career, and most without anyone else resisting or batting an eye. Women running for President, Senate, House, Governors, etc.

Everything the conservatives want represents something that has changed from the past that they will never get back.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
198. Yes, we have accomplished so much. And I think we could accomplish a lot more
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:07 PM
Nov 2014

if we weren't such a bunch of amnesiacs, rewriting history to magnify our present annoyances.

Most of the 20th century was so unimaginably horrific compared to the present. But good luck explaining that to people who can't see beyond their own present circumstances, either toward the past or the future.

It was more orderly, that much we can say. But that "order" was more often used to crush liberalism than enable it, outside of the experiences of privileged youths who got to experience some of the periods of intellectual flowering.

kjones

(1,053 posts)
216. +1
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:57 PM
Nov 2014

People seem to forget about the last century. Two world wars with tens of millions of deaths each, the holocaust (though these are world wide events). Or the 19th century, US specific....we had "nice," "quaint," "wholesome" things like slavery, indian removal, and a civil war.
No, things aren't "perfect" now (is anything ever?), but it's a hell of a lot better than it was.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
221. People even forget about the previous decade.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 10:55 PM
Nov 2014

An unelected, apocalyptic madman was in the White House declaring himself the instrument of God on Earth, directed by celestial power to reshape the world by war in furtherance of Biblical prophecy.

He pranced around smirking and gleaming proudly about mass-murdering rampages and torture camps, and all but declared himself Caesar and Jesus combined. And yet what did those Satanic theatrics get him? His power collapsed like a house of cards when he went after Social Security.

Nixon was a far bigger monster, and the America that tolerated Bush's psychotic clowning until he tried to attack Social Security was a much freer country than the one that just barely escaped Nixon. He was only impeached because he became prematurely paranoid and made enemies on the Hill of people in his own Party.

 

Elmer S. E. Dump

(5,751 posts)
159. Not slamming you for telling the truth - even though it hurts.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:42 PM
Nov 2014

But you are absolutely correct. To put it in my favored American slang, "we're fucked".

Screwed, Blued, and tattooed!

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
172. Recommended! (#159)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:00 PM
Nov 2014

I didn't see this before, or I'd have recommended it and responded earlier. I haven't even read through the other responses yet.

I agree in large part with the OP. It is thoughtful, and thought-provoking. Thank you posting it.

In my opinion, the corporate state is able to exploit and capitalize on our culture's low level of being. In large part, it is a consequence of the anxiety, fear, and hatred that is poured into our society on a daily basis. And, in part, it is because people are numb to the reality of being kept busy with bright lights, loud music, electronic gadgets, and a wide range of intoxicating substances that make the unbearable bearable.

It's said that it is far easier to control a group of merry fools, than a single sad, but wise person.

Until people begin to consciously seek their better potential -- which almost never is what this society deems as successful -- the larger society will remain trapped.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

blkmusclmachine

(16,149 posts)
177. The 1% has a deathgrip on our Government, far and wide. And they won't ever give it up. They'd turn
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:26 PM
Nov 2014

their drones (or worse) on us if they even thought we posed a threat to their Dominion.

glinda

(14,807 posts)
180. was thinking how we were no better than what is happening in Mexico....
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:34 PM
Nov 2014

I agree with your post.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
181. We are screwn.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:37 PM
Nov 2014

Too bad there are not more Bernie Sanders out there. He is probably the last politician left that I actually like a lot. We are not supposed to say it on DU, but the answer is not going to be trying to take the Democratic Party back from corporates, corrupts, and third wayers and right wingers. They have their claws in it and we either are with them or against them, GWB style, if you know what I mean...

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
186. IMHO, this results from not having found a consistent message to counter the GOP meme of the last
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:09 PM
Nov 2014

34 years, failed as is in practice, that low taxes and low spending is the way to prosperity. At least that is the primary reason.

We need to find a succinct way to express that and then have everyone in the party on that same page.

Add two or three other standard issue positions that everyone gets behind (like raising the minimum wage) and talks about the same way and we will be on our way to rolling back what has happened since 1980.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
187. No slamming here
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:13 PM
Nov 2014

However, we know that something must be done, that We, the People are the ones who have to do it because our representative at all levels of government no longer represent us and that we have no time to lose in getting started.

The system is too broken to fix by allowing it to mend itself (this is my answer to the person above who thinks we've been through worse than this). The critical result of the November 4 election is, as you say, that we are no longer living in a democracy; this is an oligarchy and, more to the point, a dictatorship headed by Dave and Charlie Koch.

I am calling for direct action, not against the politicians who have willingly sold themselves to the One Percent, but against the One Percent itself. We don't have to kill them, just bankrupt them. That should be more effective of making sure a self-serving, self-appointed aristocracy whose members think they are better than the common people never, never rises again. Democracy is the only acceptable form of government.

I have put up a few posts since the elections calling for this kind of action. I've gotten responses in the vein of "right on, brother Rabbit." While that feels good to a sick old man, what I really want us to do is engage in ideas of how to move forward.

Let's have that discussion.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
191. Actually, I'm optimistic because young people are wise to the nonsense put out by Conservatives....
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:44 PM
Nov 2014

Remember, it wasn't that long ago when you had the "dynamic young man" thing going on where they were PROUD to call themselves a "dittohead".

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
199. The deniers will focus on the 1/10th step forward and ignore the 10 steps backwards. Govt. spying
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:16 PM
Nov 2014

on our families is probably one of the most horrifying developments endorsed by Democrats as "progress".

liberal N proud

(60,334 posts)
203. Thinking much the same
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:32 PM
Nov 2014

I too have been posting here for 10 years.

Could have written much of what you said.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
205. We need to fix the voting system. Breaking up media monopolies would also be nice.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:39 PM
Nov 2014

Meanwhile don't be too glum. We've come a long, long, LONG way since 2008, more than we know, and we stand a good chance of winning the WH again in 2016. Demographics are on our side whether we get voting fixed or not but we'll turn blue a lot faster if we do.

And more voters tried to vote than they're telling us, and more would have, had they not been disenfranchised. Don't believe the lies you hear on TV. The electorate is not stupid, just dis-empowered. That will change.

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
209. I am in total agreement
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:06 PM
Nov 2014

with you, cali.

People, who claim we should take a longer historical view, I advise to look at what happened to Mongolia for instance.
What is left of that terrific empire? I hope this is long enough, but Greece and Rome give also great examples.

There may be a kind of terrible, even horrible hope: The faster arrival of Climate Change may force a different
kind of thinking and acting.

If Americans now spend money and time to contain Ebola, what will they feel like when Florida and the East coast
are under water?

Martin Eden

(12,867 posts)
210. "Is there really a realistic path to reforming the political system?"
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:07 PM
Nov 2014

Hope lies in Youth.

We need to spend as much quality time as possible with young people, mentoring them and giving them the benefit of our life experiences. They need to be instilled with the values of compassion, learning, and engaging in critical thought.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
212. I don't disagree
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:33 PM
Nov 2014

For now, the right have won. They abused the filibuster as, essentially, a minority veto (which they'll get rid of the very second they take over in January); they have a tame SCOTUS to declare any law they dislike as unconstitutional; they have the mainstream media to tell the people what to think and they're using Texas's power over school textbooks to get their version of history taught as well. The SCOTUS have effectively legalised bribery, any attempt to change that will have to be pushed by the same people who benefit from that system and the SCOTUS would probably declare any limitations (short of an Amendment which has zero chance of happening) as unconstitutional anyway. They are very close to the corporate endgame: A populace poor and desperate enough to work for pennies or a meal or a dosshouse bed for the night.

What I can tell you is that this too shall pass. It's the nature of history, it runs in a cycle of roughly eighty years. First the rich push too far and crash the system, then the poor insist on some protections, the system recovers and then, just as the people who saw the crash start dying off, their descendents start eroding all the protections put in place after the last crash. Last time around, the Gilded Age led to the Crash of '29 and the Depression, protections were put in place and then, just as the people who remembered the Crash started dying off in numbers in the late-Seventies and early Eighties, the rich (and the GOP, their political arm) started eroding all those protections.

All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again. Which is, I appreciate, little comfort to someone living through it. What concerns me is that this time, the soothing pablum of tv may have the plebs too placated to rise up against their "betters".

Initech

(100,075 posts)
217. And pundits like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity exist to repeat the big lie that we're the enemy.
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 10:25 PM
Nov 2014

It really makes me question who really won the Civil War. Supposedly the North won but the fact that we keep electiing ass backwards people like James Inhofe and Ted Cruz, despite that Congress has an 11% approval rating, if the South really won and this is all a show.

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
220. I've felt that way for a long time
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 10:51 PM
Nov 2014

A revolution is going to come...maybe not this year, or this decade, but it will come. You are not alone, cali, in thinking that it's too late. It's just too late.

People go hungry and homeless and no wonder. A lousy can of green beans is $1 unless you're lucky enough to have a Save-A-Lot or Aldi-s where it's 69#" - I just noticed I don't have a "cents" key. I guess the computer people don't want to own up that people who use computers aren't buying stuff that costs #" (cents). We're privileged and deal only in dollars. Many now are needed for a pound of ground beef...but there's money for gas to drive to the store where you can't afford much, or the theatre where you can't afford to go in, popcorn a faint dream we have of years gone by.

It's not that wages are too low. Prices are too high, and that's why stocks are so high. We're being gauged in every direction by the conscience-free 1%. They are really making money.

Complaints about the rich just rile up the "You communist!" crowd...Stocks are record high and wages are record low. People should go on strike nationwide, no, worldwide - all the people who are underpaid for making surroundings sparkling clean for the 1% .

Evoman

(8,040 posts)
227. I think in the long run, you'll be alright.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 06:06 AM
Nov 2014

I mean, look at a worst case scenario. ...freaking Nazis running the country. ...75 years later, Germany actually has some pretty progressive politicians and a social safety nest and denying the Holocaust is illegal.

I can't guarantee it will happen in your lifetime. Maybe the United States won't be a superpower any more. And maybe that's for the best. I think that Americans could actually use getting the positiveness smacked out of them. One of the reasons people there vote so poorly is that they have this unrealistically positive attitude that they will someday be rich. And they blame themselves rather than pathology in their social systems to explain why they aren't doing better. A depression may be what finally shakes you free of that bullshit.

Or maybe global warming will kill us all.

LittleGirl

(8,287 posts)
228. We left
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 06:36 AM
Nov 2014

My spouse and I left a few days before the election. We saw the writing on the wall. We went back to Europe. We saw a better quality of life. We saw job security. We saw a work/life balance. 4 weeks of vacation every year. Sundays where everything is closed and that's a good thing. We'll be back next month to pack up and go for good. bub bye. We gave it 5 years (after living in Europe before) and kept getting kicked in the teeth with the job market, the quality of life, road rage, guns everywhere, school shootings, democracy and unions treated like scum and human rights ignored. We knew we were one job loss away from losing our savings, our home, our retirement that we worked very hard to save for and it could be gone in 6-12 months, just to survive. We read DU. We didn't want to risk it anymore. We're in our 40s and 50s. Stakes were high. The SCOTUS is a joke for the republic. I don't blame anybody but I blame everybody. We just decided, enough was enough.

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