Majority of Americans, Democrats even, support Keystone! Are they just making shit up now?

[J_J_]

The polls, where the lying corporate media keeps telling us what we believe....what evidence do we have that they are not just making up their own polls with their own talking points in order to manufacture consent for their own issues?


These asshole republicans are up there telling us we all support them, because of the (freaking phony election) and their stupid ass corporate media whores keep repeating the same bullshit.


Who in American was demanding that this Keystone pipeline get built? That was what everyone was voting for?

Who wants these bullshit trade agreements,

or even the stupid ass immigration bill?



Show me one politician who is actually presenting legislation that the American people want, have asked for, and will actually help US?

How far have we fallen that we don't even expect them to do anything to help Americans anymore?

We have record homeless starving children while Congress just had to cut off 8 Billion if food stamps.

Meanwhile Congress feels so much compassion for Iraq we must spend $25 Billion per year to bomb them.

Can't let people out of prison because they are firefighters "During the past four decades, the U.S. prison population has quadrupled even as the crime rate has dropped. We have some 2.4 million people behind bars, far more than any other country, costing about $80 billion a year to maintain."


Seriously what the fuck is Congress doing?

Why do we accept this?

[Kalidurga]

1. Yes they are making things up

If they were honest they would say the majority of the 1% are behind their ideas.

[awake]

2. "NOW" they have been making shit up for years

[Aerows]

37. Amen

If you believe the news, everyone wants tax cuts for the rich, to live in servitude and our main goal in life is which religious and financial figure we should grovel to.

[Marr]

3. I'd be shocked if more than 1 in 100 US citizens even know what the Keystone XL Pipeline is.

[L0oniX]

27. ^^^THIS^^^ ...They probably think its some weird kind of porn.

[arcane1]

29. And 1 out of 100 of those only know it from the PR spin

Which means they've heard of it but are either clueless or wrong about its impact.

[walkingman]

31. I doubt if 1 in 10K have ever heard of it.

[mythology]

4. So your theory is that the media is making up poll numbers?

Does this apply to things like the support for background checks on gun purchases or the support for raising the minimum wage? Or does it only apply to issues where people seem to disagree with you?

You have no evidence to support your contention other than you want it to be true. The available evidence says that people do support the Keystone pipeline. My guess is that they do support, but for what they think it might do, rather than what it probably will do. It's been drilled (no pun intended) into people's heads that this will create long term jobs (it won't), that it would bring down the price of oil (it won't), that there won't be any environmental impact (there will be), etc. It's sort of like how people in Kentucky say they hate Obamacare, but they love the Kynect website. There's a disconnect for people.

[J_J_]

10. "The available evidence" is from lying corporate media whores

They are lying about everything now, creating their own reality.

As Rove explained " We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality"

[shenmue]

5. I think it's bullshit

No way do most people support the pipeline. Most people I've talked to don't like it.

[misterhighwasted]

6. Lying. Kochs paid a lot of $$$ to purchase the Keystone votes today..They just failed!! Haa

Guess we'll hear quite a bit of panicked verbage blubbering from those now beholding to the real owners of their Congressional seats.
Koch's were expecting a return on their investment and as of today..... well they are REALLY PISSED.
HaaHaaa.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

39. Koch is affiliated with the competing Enbridge system.

I doubt they have strong feelings on the subject.

[surrealAmerican]

7. I hate to be cynical, but ...

... a majority of Americans probably don't even know what Keystone is.

There's a "sleeping giant" of tuned out citizens: people who don't read or watch the news, who get their "information" from rumors or not at all. It's not much different than any period in our history, just that now, the rumors are on Facebook.

[Agnosticsherbet]

8. Actually, all the polls I've seen published shows a wide approval.

Polls can be manipulated, of course. Questions can be written to get the desired answer.

That is what the polls say.

Of course, no one polled DU.

[BootinUp]

9. Sheeple are easy to count. nt

[Wellstone ruled]

11. Misleading Poll at best.

Believe this is one of Gallop/ABC or NBC/WSJ polls. Land line? Internet? Bloomberg/CNBC? Every generic poll I've seen says it's about 49-50% and that's a push with 3-4 basis points in the error factor. Did some polling by phone and if you state a question in certain manner or manners and context,your answers will change. BTW,Gallop is a master of jacked up polling. Been there and did that. Still have the Gallop T-shirt.

[L0oniX]

26. Gerrymandered poll.

[LeftInTX]

12. They assume the pipeline means jobs and low gas prices

[Odin2005]

13. Most Americans are ignorant morons who think the pipeline will make gas cheaper.

when I try to tell people that most of the oil is going to China and the price of gas around here (Fargo, ND) will actually go UP they call me a lunatic.

[joshcryer]

15. The oil winds up in the gulf refineries anyway.

Either by rail or ... the other major lines that go there.



For perspective:

[Odin2005]

20. Why the hell do they need another one, then?

[joshcryer]

32. So they can ramp up Bakken production.

Keystone doesn't help the oil sands but the tradeoff is that TransCanada builds it so that it can leverage Bakken transport. And if it doesn't get built rail will just be used.

http://www.desmogblog.com/2014/02/05/keystone-xl-northern-leg-fracked-oil-pipeline-tar-sands

I think some Democrats voting for it don't want a rail bomb going off in their states in the future. I see that as a potential reason Mark Pryor voted for it. Landrieu was making a similar argument (though she obviously has more at stake).

http://www.ogj.com/articles/print/volume-111/issue-8/transportation/rail-emerging-as-long-term-north-american.html

FYI I'm against it but I don't see it not going through eventually. Give us a few more rail bombs and see what people say. In that vein I think that the Democrats need to force TransCanada to promise no re-export.

[branford]

14. Is the corporate media also lying when the polls support ideas and positions you like?

Shall we assume that when polls support firearm universal background checks, minimum wage increases, marriage equality, etc., that they also are "making things up to manufacture consent for their own issues?"

[bhikkhu]

16. Most people may be resigned to the basic economics -

pipelines are built to transport oil, and do it better and more efficiently than rail or trucks. That's just the way it goes, and we've built thousands of pipelines across the country already. One more isn't a huge deal, and its not something to get too outraged about. Pretty much everybody drives cars, pretty much everybody burns oil. I'd take the opposition more seriously if they didn't drive everywhere and burn oil.

[markpkessinger]

17. Judging from comments I've read in the NY Times' coverage of the vote . . .

. . . it appears that a large number of people have bought into one or both of two lies promulgated by the project's supporters, to wit:

(1) that the pipeline will be a source of an enormous number of new jobs; and/or

(2) that if the pipeline is built, the oil it will carry will be destined for American markets.

Both points, of course, are total bullshit, but a lot of folks insist on believing them.

[L0oniX]

24. Same ones that believed Saddam attacked us on 911.

[woo me with science]

40. PROPAGANDA

Tremendous resources are being poured both into deceptive advertising to get Americans to support our own destruction, *and* into creating the illusion that Americans do support what is being done to us.

Obama taps "cognitive infiltrator" Cass Sunstein for Committee to create "trust" in NSA:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023512796

Salon: Obama confidant’s spine-chilling proposal: Cass Sunstein wants the government to "cognitively infiltrate" anti-government groups
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

The US government's online campaigns of disinformation, manipulation, and smear.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024560097

Snowden: ‘Training Guide’ for GCHQ, NSA Agents Infiltrating and Disrupting Alternative Media Online
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/02/25/snowden-training-guide-for-gchq-nsa-agents-infiltrating-and-disrupting-alternative-media-online/

The influx of corporate propaganda-spouting posters is blatant and unnatural.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News To Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262111

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

The government figured out sockpuppet management but not "persona management."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4159454

Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741

Just do some Googling on astroturfing - big organizations have some sophisticated tools.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208351

[julio_maracas]

18. Pew poll

Has the prestigious Pew poll conducted polls on the subject?

[L0oniX]

23. I'm done going by those polls. A stripper poll is more accurate.

[pampango]

25. Pew did a poll in May showing broad support for the pipeline even among Democrats.

Despite this I appreciate Senate Democrats and President Obama showing leadership and doing the right thing. That is harder to do when the polls don't support you on a particular issue.

[fadedrose]

19. Rumors started about all kinds of stuff

I don't believe the polls about the favorite Democratic Candidate for President are accurate, not even close.

I don't know a soul who likes that candidate.

I think they're going by "if you repeat something often enough, people will believe it." Then they are influenced to think the same thing for fear of being out-of-step...

[J_J_]

35. "if you repeat something often enough, people will believe it."

exactly the plan

[TBF]

21. They own the media -

who do you think controls the polls? It's all a scam.

[L0oniX]

22. Obviously it is not my government. It's just another loan shark taking my money for wars and shit.

[JaneyVee]

28. Surely you jest thinking corp media and big oil would collude?

[Drunken Irishman]

30. As it is with most environmental issues - the messaging sucks.

[brooklynite]

33. UNREC

Happy to let you vent if that's the point, but absent any evidence, don't claim that poll results are being created out of whole cloth just because the results don't sit well with you.

If you'd investigated, you'd know that similar polling was done by SRBI for the Washington Post. SRBI is a highly reliable company that my agency has used for market research. They would not allow their reputation to be sullied by a client making things up; it would risk too much business that has nothing to do with national political issues. You'd also know that

You'd also know that a plurality of respondents thought there would be environmental risks; do you really image that THEY would allow that to be included if this was being made up?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2014/03/07/National-Politics/Polling/release_303.xml

[aspirant]

38. REPUTATION? It means nothing if they have no contracts and are bankrupt

They are operating in a filthy pool of corp medias that are just a den of thieves.When you choose to operate among snakes, what does that make you? They must put out the opposition's favorable polls or they would never be taken seriously.If every poll they conduct is anti-dem, how long do you think it would be before our side starts laughing at them and calling them right-wing rags? Does anyone belief Fox polls except Foxers?

[brooklynite]

41. Ah, so venting it is...

Please continue

[aspirant]

43. Venting what?

What a cope out. No rebuttals just calling us venters. Let's check your facts. You say SRBI is "highly reliable" so I say prove it. Your proof is your word and contracts with the Washington Post. Nothing ever unreliable happened there and your word? You state," not allowing their reputation to be sullied" and how do we know that. Give us a complete list of all their contracts for the past 5 years (since you're an insider) so we can get a real look at how reputable they are. Then you say their " business that has nothing to do with national politics" and I'm still shaking my head over these words. The Washington Post has nothing to do with national politics, is this a joke? If you call us venters, do we call you a misleading paid advocate?

[davishenderson265]

34. I think based on all of the propaganda they probably do.

They think Obama could create all those jobs if he would just do it...

[Oilwellian]

36. What good is a poll if...

the citizenry isn't informed of the facts? If Americans were told the Keystone Pipeline was akin to "shitting where we eat" then I suspect the polls would turn out a little different.

[Township75]

42. I bet it is true

Because people, even those that are democrats, care most about $$$$, and most people think is will lose and stabilize gas prices. Whether it will or not is yet to be seen but they aren't thinking about that