Do you think opiate pain medications should be outlawed for noncancer sufferers as in chronic pain?

[UglyGreed]

Last edited Mon Nov 24, 2014, 10:24 AM - Edit history (4)

Just wondering how DU really feels about this subject. My vote is no even though I have decided to stop taking it. Today is day fifteen without any medication. Of course I'm in worse shape pain wise but I have no cravings to go back. This is after taking oxycodone for six years. Took me thirteen days to wean.

I included my story about weaning myself off of oxycodone to show it may not be as addictive to those who suffer from chronic pain. Our brains when in such pain react differently than those who take these medications to get high. I never ever gotten high from taking any pain medication. Years ago if I drank a beer I got a buzz, if I smoked I got high but never caught a buzz from pain medication. I thought that was important to add.

AAN Warns Against Opioids in Chronic Noncancer Pain

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PainManagement/PainManagement/47871

The risks of opioids far outweigh their benefits in chronic pain conditions such as headache, fibromyalgia, and lower back pain, according to a new policy statement from the American Academy of Neurology.

The statement lists several best practices -- including checking a prescription data monitoring program (PDMP) before prescribing opioids -- and calls for primary care doctors to refer chronic pain patients to specialists if they are taking daily doses of 80 to 120 mg morphine-equivalent per day.

Gary Franklin, MD, of the University of Washington in Seattle, is the sole author of the statement, published in Neurology. Franklin is known for bringing to light a sharp increase in opioid overdose deaths in his tenure at Washington state's workers' compensation program -- many say sparked the nation's awareness of a rising prescription opioid epidemic.

[greatlaurel]

1. Absolutely not.

There are many valid reasons for people to take pain medications. Like women's health care, pain management needs to be between the patient and their doctor.

[UglyGreed]

18. Thank you for reply

glad to see people still have empathy for those who suffer.

[DeadLetterOffice]

42. I agree, absolutely.

Legislating medical care will always end badly.

[indepat]

63. My wife has had a severe pain at the base of her skull for 79+ years caused by polio in the brain

stem, so she will now have an added annual cost of some $900 to get prescriptions for her pain medicine, i.e., twelve doctor-visits to the home so he can see her to prescribe her pain medication, thanks to the administration's new rule which seems to cavalierly punish those in chronic pain. Gee tanks, Uncle Sam, keep up the good work.

[truedelphi]

207. That is so suck-y.

I was given unlimited vicodeine prescription during a time period when no one in the medical establishment could figure out what was wrong with me. Pet scans, ultra sounds and a MRI for my brain when they decided a brain tumor might be incorrectly making me feel pain tht had no cause, etc.

On my bad days, I did 4 to 7 pills a day. And even then my pain level was still four on a one to ten reading of pain.

Luckily for me, we finally figured out it was an allergy to wheat that caused my pain. That correct diagnosis was due to great work by nursing staff at my Docotr's office, who queried me on what in my lifestyle might have caused a four day run wihtout pain - and with no vicodeine.

The nurses employed an old fashioned way of handling a problem. But successful. Once on a wheat free diet, now I consume about 15 vicodeine in a six month period and that is for when back pain erupts.

I can't imagine spending 79 years with pain caused by polio but glad that your wife has had doctors who allowed her to use what she needed. (Some doctors out there will not prescribe pain meds at all!)

And like you say, the new guidelines make it necessary for un-needed expense, and also for prison sentences should someone try and find what they need on the street.

[indepat]

211. My wife had taken bleeder pain pills until she nearly bled to death about twenty years ago, then

the doctor prescribed the deadly darvocet until that dastardly pain pill was taken off the market. Only then was she prescribed hydrocodene, the first pain medication to completely kill the pain. Glad you found the source of your pain. Cheers.

[magical thyme]

117. agreed 100%. medical treatment should not be a political decision. nt

[Warpy]

178. If you read the article, you see that they're rubberstamping the CDC guidelines

that state that patients who are approaching a 120mg/day morphine equivalent in pain control should be referred to pain specialists and have an assessment of how fast and just why their dosage has increased so much. Pain control specialists use non drug methods which include but are not limited to nerve block, surgery, cognitive therapy, and physical therapy focused on pain control in addition to drugs. This is a good thing, since PCPs are not able to focus on chronic pain as a separate entity.

Pain control will still be between the patient and his/her doctor. The doctor will simply be one who specializes in pain management.

FWIW, I'm a chronic pain patient. I have been on opiates or opioid synthetics since the mid 90s. I use the meds to be functional with periods during the day when I am not medicated and in pain but enjoying having my brain work better off the drugs. Some folks can't do that and need long acting pain control. I can't judge them but I can say management by a pain service is superior to management by a primary care doc.

[yeoman6987]

2. No I would not ban it for non cancer reasons

I do love the fact that a doctor must fill out a new prescription for refills. Some do not like that, but I think it will stop the abuse which will help society as a whole. Congrats on getting off of it.

[UglyGreed]

12. I included that info

about weaning myself off to show it may not be as addictive to those who suffer from chronic pain. Our brains when in such pain react differently than those who take these medications to get high. I never ever gotten high from taking any pain medication. Years ago if I drank a beer I got a buzz, if I smoked I got high but never caught a buzz from pain medication. I thought that was important to add.

[loyalsister]

75. There is a critical distinction between experiencing euphoria as a side effect

vs. one who is motivated by the euphoria. In the second case, the person may not have much awareness of the analgesic effects.

A friend told me that when her grandfather was dying and they asked the Dr. to increase the pain meds, he said "do you really want him to die an addict?"

[Liberal Veteran]

79. If a doctor ever said that to me, I'd be hard pressed to keep my temper.

I think I'd probably look at him like he lost his fucking mind and say, "Addicted? In you professional judgement, how long after his death do you think he'll be in rehab?"

[loyalsister]

80. Me too!

My first thought of a response was "as opposed to living in pain????"

[easychoice]

96. They tried that addiction crap with my mom.

Not being one to suffer morons gladly I told them to get her ready to fly I was taking her to Toronto where I was assured that they would medicate her properly.They changed their minds real quick when they thought they were going to lose a million dollars in insurance money.
I bought Mom a pound of Green bud too.She started eating and holding it down again,that helped a lot to make her more comfy.If you are going to die anyway you might as well be comfy,right?

[catbyte]

157. You're right, loyalsister. I've never really experienced the "drug high" folks talk about.

It's like my pain sucks up that aspect of the meds or something. I didn't get stoned even when first taking long acting & breakthrough opiates. They are a godsend, though. I would either have taken my own life years ago or would live curled up on the couch in a fetal position, sobbing, if not for these meds. With them I can work 40+ hours a week and actually have a life. Without them, I would be in agony 24/7. Even with the meds, I am in pain, but they dull the nerve pain enough for me to function fairly normally.

[reflection]

166. Big difference between addiction and dependence.

And that would be the second thing I would say in reply to that question. The first would be "are you daft?"

[moriah]

16. Considering most insurance has a specialist copay that's higher than normal....

... moving hydrocodone to Schedule II means pain patients must spend more money on doctors and have more doctors visits, even if they've been on the same dose of painkiller for years. For my insurance, if I was a chronic pain patient getting my prescriptions from a pain management specialist, that'd be an extra $50 a month I would have to spend.

The *only* possible benefit is that maybe doctors will try other pills in Schedule II instead of just prescribing the Schedule III substance. Maybe they'll try long-acting painkillers like fentanyl patches, Oxycontin, or methadone. The fluctuations in blood levels for people taking immediate-release narcotics is not good for pain.

But somehow, I think it'll just make doctors prescribe less of the pills, since doing a triplicate prescription for Schedule II is a pain in the ass. Which is not good for chronic pain patients who deserve compassion and relief of their suffering. The vast majority of chronic pain patients do not abuse narcotics, and trying to blame them for it is ridiculous. Putting further barriers in place to keep them from getting the treatment they deserve to have a higher quality of life is terrible.

[UglyGreed]

34. Great points

I hope others see this post. It's what I've had to do. Also my wife has to take off of work to take me, lucky she has been at her job for a very long time and they understand for now. BTW if she loses her job their goes our insurance.

[Mojorabbit]

93. I don't take pain medicine except very rarely

for migraines. But..I do not drive and it is really hard to get to the doctor's office especially when I am not feeling well. I would hate to have to make a monthly trip while in severe pain. I would not wish that on anyone.

[Ms. Toad]

200. You are obviously not someone in chronic pain with limited resourced.

This new regulation costs individuals $10-$50/month in additional co-pays (or more if they don't have insurance), because doctors cannot (or will not) just write the new prescription. Fortunately my chronic pain does not require opiates to control - but if it did, I would be really pissed that my pocketbook is being impacted because of (1) jerks who are abusing opiates and (2) government fools who cannot a find a way to address the illegal behavior that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.

Living with chronic illness is already costly. We max out our insurance every year. It is something far too many people don't consider when they want to impose per-visit charges (whether for pain meds or otherwise) to make sure that people aren't abusing the system. Those of us whose health care needs require more interaction bear the financial brunt of behavior control that is completely irrelevant to us - providing a disincentive to maintain the regular care necessary for most chronic illnesses.

[bigwillq]

3. No (nt)

[Nye Bevan]

4. Why would you single out cancer?

There are many other illnesses that cause severe pain.

[UglyGreed]

5. many doctors/people feel that end of life

cancer is the only reason to give powerful pain killers.

[Liberal Veteran]

15. Those kind of doctors are either paranoid of the DEA or lacking in empathy.

I can sorta understand the former, but a doctor who thinks a couple of ibuprofen are sufficient for a severe burn patient or a herniated disk is one who should probably not be practicing medicine.

[UglyGreed]

38. AAN Warns Against Opioids in Chronic Noncancer Pain

I see Neurosurgeons and this maybe the reason they blame my pain medication.



http://www.medpagetoday.com/PainManagement/PainManagement/47871

The risks of opioids far outweigh their benefits in chronic pain conditions such as headache, fibromyalgia, and lower back pain, according to a new policy statement from the American Academy of Neurology.

The statement lists several best practices -- including checking a prescription data monitoring program (PDMP) before prescribing opioids -- and calls for primary care doctors to refer chronic pain patients to specialists if they are taking daily doses of 80 to 120 mg morphine-equivalent per day.

Gary Franklin, MD, of the University of Washington in Seattle, is the sole author of the statement, published in Neurology. Franklin is known for bringing to light a sharp increase in opioid overdose deaths in his tenure at Washington state's workers' compensation program -- many say sparked the nation's awareness of a rising prescription opioid epidemic.

[DeadLetterOffice]

47. Even then you see doctors now afraid to prescribe necessary pain meds...

...for people who are fucking DYING because said dying people might get addicted to said necessary pain medication.
It's the damnedest thing I've ever seen. How can anyone with any sense deny Hospice patients pain medication.
Seriously,

[pnwmom]

74. Not post surgical patients? I doubt that many surgeons feel that way. n/t

[UglyGreed]

103. Well when I had two surgeries

in 2012 and 2013 of course they gave me pain killers, but after one day I would need to request them instead of them giving them to me when it was time for the dose.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. absolutely not.

people in pain should have the best treatments for pain available to them.

[Takket]

7. Goodness no. That would lead to completely avoidable suffering

[Liberal Veteran]

8. Absolutely not.

There are plenty of good reasons to need opiates for non-cancer pain.

Acute pain from surgery, broken bones, spinal/back injuries, cluster headaches, dental problems, kidney stones...etc.

[longship]

9. As a six time kidney stone patient, fuck no.

I only had opiates on two of the occasions, but they enabled me to function. On one, I was hospitalized twice for IV pain meds. Without them I would have been in agony.

Who thinks this shit up?

[moriah]

11. Does Toradol do you any good?

I'm allergic to it, but I've heard it's a friggin' wonder drug for kidney stones.

[longship]

19. Never tried it. My last kidney stone attack was summer, 2013.

It lasted a couple months, with minor to moderate pain, occasional bloody urine, but ended up passing the stone(s). Being poor, I treated the pain with ibuprofen.

I have in the past had both sonic wave lithotripsy and LASER surgery. The lithotripsy was awesome; the LASER was quite uncomfortable for weeks afterwards due to a stent placed in my ureter, which was subsequently removed resulting in more bloody urine and discomfort.

BTW, kidney stones are very difficult to treat. It often takes many weeks to just find them.

[UglyGreed]

44. here ya go

http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/ketorolac-oral-route-injection-route/description/drg-20066882

[Liberal Veteran]

24. Toradol is great, but limited to less than 5 days use due to high risk of GI bleeding.

For chronic pain, it probably wouldn't be a good thing at all.

[moriah]

26. Fortunately kidney stones are usually an acute situation.

A friend of mine with stones swears by it when she has to go to the ER. Doesn't leave her muddle-headed, and gives her about 24 hours of pain relief.

[Liberal Veteran]

31. Yeah, my experience with toradol was a little over a month ago (kidney stones).

It worked great. The only way to describe the pain was being hit in the side with a wrecking ball repeatedly. No slow increase in pain...just straight from 0 to 10 on the pain scale in a moment. The toradol was great. I was just throwing the part about chronic pain in to point out that it isn't really an option for someone that has to deal with severe chronic pain situations.

[EX500rider]

58. To me it was more like being repeatedly stabbed in the kidney with a dull steak knife..

[DeadLetterOffice]

43. Oral toradol is a very new thing.

It's been available IV for quite awhile, without the risks of GI bleeding. Only downside there is you have to get it somewhere that does IV's (in my case, the ER. repeatedly.) As a chronic migraine patient who often segues into status migraines, toradol is my probably my favorite medication ever.

[moriah]

78. Most people I know are heading to the ER in a kidney stone attack.

Sadly, some ERs are even afraid to give opiates before the stone is found on CT. So a Toradol shot is something to hope for if they have a stupid policy like that, and I was hoping those whose chronic pain manifested in acute attacks like chronic kidney stones do. Unless you hive from it, like me. It did help my pain, though more needlesticks with epi weren't fun. Since it reduces the swelling/inflammation around the stone, I wouldn't be surprised if it helped the stone pass a touch faster too.

Or, if you're one of those whose pain isn't really relieved by narcotics, it might work better than a standard pain shot.

I was just mentioning it because I know a lot of folks who have dealt with doctors who were too afraid of the DEA to administer adequate pain control. For kidney stone attacks or other things that drag a person into the ER and require IV narcotics, sometimes Toradol can be a relief as well, or at least provide some interim relief until they confirm the stone on CT.

[catbyte]

86. Just curious, is Toradol an NSAID?

[DeadLetterOffice]

112. Yes, a very strong one. Thus the stomach shreadding side effect.

[catbyte]

156. Bummer. I heard it was good for migraines, but I developed an anaphylactic

allergy to NSAIDS & aspirin after taking too many of them to treat epicondylitis in my R elbow back in the early 1990's. It's a real pain & doctors have told me to go very easy on the Tylenol because I seem to develop allergies to drugs I take a lot. I developed an anaphylactic allergy to penicillin trying to avoid an appendectomy, and I developed an allergy to sulfa drugs treating a chronic UTI. At least with sulfa I only break out in hives, unlike NSAIDS/penicillin, where I get the whole throat-closing scary reaction. I carry an Epi-pen everywhere because aspirin is in things I never would have thought contained aspirin. I am really careful, though. I guess I'll have to stick to Imitrex shots for my migraines. I dislike the heart-pounding side effects, but it's better than the headache.

Thanks for the information!

[blue neen]

205. Something you might want to check out:

Modern Medicine (for lack of a better term) is now able to identify genetic drug sensitivities. Some people do not produce the proper liver enzymes needed for metabolizing certain drugs. There are several different ones: CYP2C9, CYP2C6, CYP2C19, etc.

You could mention this to your doctor. Many docs aren't even aware that such testing exists yet. My doctor and I found out the hard way----I almost died from a Coumadin overdose. My body just doesn't metabolize the stuff properly. Verrrry scary and very serious.

Good luck.

[catbyte]

212. I've never heard of that. Thanks so much! I'll discuss it with my doctor.

Glad you're ok. Drug reactions are very scary indeed.

[LeftyMom]

56. It's great at making new business for dialysis clinics. nt

[MFM008]

100. u said it

I had 1 bout with a kidney stone , the pain is indescribable.

[moriah]

10. Of course not. Your decision to go off of painkillers is one thing.

Making that decision for others, like the DEA pain doctor persecution is attempting to do, is not correct. Especially when things can hurt just as bad as cancer. I'm not sure why you decided to wean yourself off of it. The fact you have no cravings suggests you weren't actually addicted, perhaps just physiologically dependent, as happens when we take many pharmaceuticals. I'm sorry you're in worse pain. If you don't want to go back on opiates, I hope you are able to find a combination of anti-inflammatories and nerve pain agents that reduce your pain levels.

Opiates gave my grandfather some kind of quality of life. I would not deny them to chronic pain patients. To me the entire idea shows an extreme lack of compassion or mercy.

[UglyGreed]

13. I said no in my OP

I would never want anyone to suffer.

[UglyGreed]

14. My doctor was using the pain medication

as an excuse for not treating my Hydrocephalus. When I was looking for a new doctor they told me they would not treat my chronic pain and refused to even see me. Since I have eleven damaged discs in my neck and lower back I understand pain and I would never tell anyone to suffer.

[Mariana]

17. Most people are just like you when they've taken opiates.

They don't need it anymore, and/or they decide to stop taking it, and they stop taking it. The end. Some people can't do that, and it's a shame. However, no one should be made to suffer pain because of the minority that has that problem.

[UglyGreed]

25. I did worry

about my body not being to handle the change or shock to my system, not that I would not get off it. I did go through withdrawal of course, with sneezing and insomnia being the worse thing I suffered. Pain of course increased but I'm a stay at home dad with older kids so I can handle that part. If I had to go to work I could not do it.

[Mariana]

46. Fortunately, opiate withdrawal

isn't dangerous like withdrawal from some other drugs. People sometimes actually die withdrawing from alcohol, for example. Still, it must have been damned uncomfortable for you.

[UglyGreed]

104. Well my pain is disturbing my

sleep greatly, I pretty sure it's the neuropathic pain I have since it is still going on. I thought since I was on the same dose of the pain killer for so long it was not helping, I was wrong and now I'm feeling it the most at night.

[Ghost in the Machine]

151. I'm in the same boat with you here...

Pain of course increased but I'm a stay at home dad with older kids so I can handle that part. If I had to go to work I could not do it.

I was in pain management for 4 years, 2 and a half of them taking 6 30mg roxicodones a day, the last year and a half I was upped to 2 40mg Oxymorphones (generic Opana) a day and 2 roxi 30's a day for breakthrough pain. I NEVER got high from them, just stopped hurting, but I build a high tolerance pretty quickly. I was dependent on the pills to even be able to get out of bed sometimes, but also realized I was addicted too. If I slept past my normal time to take them, I woke up with feelings of withdrawals, and that was just in 2 or 3 HOURS. After 2 months of asking my doctor to get me off of them, with no avail, I took matters into my own hands and quit cold turkey... with a backup plan.

I got an oz. of some cronic green and smoked a big fat joint! People may not believe it, but before I even finished the joint, I could feel a wave of tingling going through my brain, like cells firing up again, and I immediately felt like my old self again before I got on the opioids. I barely had any withdrawal symptoms and I'm on day 65 of being opioid free. Like you, I still live in pain every day and can't work, but on the really bad days I just smoke about half a joint and it does the trick.

My way may not work for everyone, but it did for me. It is way past time to legalize cannabis so people can choose to treat themselves without being criminals.

Congrats to you for quitting and I hope you can keep it up. I have also found that diet and light exercise (whatever your body will allow you to do) helps. I try to walk a little every day, and bought an AB-Lounger for sit-ups. I've had 2 multi-level lamenectomies on my neck, from C-4 down to T-3, so I'm not allowed to do push-ups, pull-ups or anything that would put pressure on my neck, as I still have tethered cord syndrome at the C-4 level. Part of my spinal cord has attached itself to the vertebrae and if it tears loose I'll drop where I stand, paralyzed from the neck down.

Peace,

Ghost

[UglyGreed]

174. Thank you for your reply

I'm glad you decided to add your story to this thread. People do not understand what some people go through. I was on 15mg four times a day. I did try to go cold turkey at first but it was too much to handle all at once. I waited a week and then started cutting down bit by bit for thirteen days and that was the ticket. I have no cravings and I will get a MMJ card when possible to deal with the neuropathic pain and spasms I get when I try to lay down and sleep. I hope that will help me sleep. Waking up every two hours and needing to get up is not a good thing. Thanks again for the reply and hang in there.

[truedelphi]

208. Great sentence in your post, and worth repeating:

However, no one should be made to suffer pain because of the minority that has that problem.

[spanone]

20. hell no. two words...kidney stones.

ouch!

[longship]

52. Yup! See my posts up thread.

Who thinks of this shit?

Madness! Like pain only comes from cancer? The person who thinks that has never experienced kidney stones (and likely childbirth, I understand).

[spanone]

61. exactly.

[gollygee]

21. Wow

I don't take them currently but I have taken them at times over the years for my very severe migraine headaches. There are times where the pain is so bad it causes me to pass out. I shouldn't have to suffer if there is relief available, and neither should other people who suffer from severe pain. We wouldn't make animals suffer but we get sanctimonious when adult humans need pain relief.

[UglyGreed]

27. That happens with my

Hydro I get very sick and then pass out, I totally understand.

[bemildred]

22. They should be legal for anyone. nt

[Aerows]

23. They don't really work for me

they don't take the pain away and leave me in a bad mood, but if they help other people, who am I to say no? I get intermittent shoulder pain (severe, and I have a fairly high pain tolerance) and the only thing that works is a cortisone shot. For anything else, anti-inflammatories are the only thing that works.

If cortisone was severely restricted for some reason, should I be denied it because someone misused it? No, pure and simple.

[HockeyMom]

28. I've known too many Seniors get addicted in Florida

after surgeries. Doctors give them out like candy; cannot have their patients in pain.

[UglyGreed]

30. So you are for oulawing them for

chronic pain?

[pecwae]

109. You know,

I've heard this same line "doctors give them out like candy" many times here. I've yet, during 13 surgeries and 2 cancers, to ever have them given to me "like candy". In fact, I practically had to beg for them on more than one occasion. Why would a physician want to see their patients in pain? Implying that they should is a vastly cruel and stupefying remark.

[MFM008]

171. exactly

Getting them from any of my doctors are like pulling teeth. 1 prescription a month, have to pick it up in person,no longer fax or call it in...where is this giving out like candy stuff going on?

[UglyGreed]

29. I'm so glad that

everyone agrees that people should not be allowed to wallow in their pain. Problem is doctors are being strong armed by the DEA. Even pharmacists and companies like Walgreens are making it harder and harder on people who need these types of medications.

[Kali]

32. fuck no

but they should quit handing out opiates mixed with tylenol

[UglyGreed]

35. I changed over from percocet

to oxycodone for that very reason. Thank you for bringing that up.

[Mariana]

50. I've always wondered how many fatal "overdoses"

of prescription painkillers are actually due to acetominophen toxicity.

The situation reminds me of something I read about some people's attitude during Prohibition. When drinkers would die or go blind from bad booze, there were those who thought that was a wonderful thing. Nowadays, we have people who prefer that drug users (whether legal or not) die of liver failure if take "too many" pain pills.

[UglyGreed]

105. I believe the overdoses might be

suicides to tell you the truth. Chronic pain shows no mercy and can last a lifetime, some do not want to carry on after awhile and I do not blame them.

[unblock]

33. whether it should be legal or not, drawing the line based on having cancer or not makes no sense.

there are plenty of non-cancerous ailments or conditions that cause massive pain, and there are cancers where the cancer itself and even the treatment don't require much in the way of painkillers.

just in our household, i have frequent migraines -- massive pain, non-cancerous, while mrs. unblock has had breast cancer with little pain and no need for painkillers -- aside from a day or two after the lumpectomy.

[madinmaryland]

36. Huh? So if you have major surgery or are in a car accident, you should not be able to

have access to pain medication that works???

[UglyGreed]

39. Please reread my OP and my posts

in this thread.

[UglyGreed]

41. BTW if you are in a hospital

these days you need to request pain medication or they won't offer it.

[Texasgal]

66. This is actually correct in some ways

If you are involved in a car accident and are not seriously" hurt you will receive NO RX for opiates period.

Just happened to a dear friend over the weekend. T-boned, car totaled. EMS called and transported. Checked her over,no broken bones or internal injuries, a few lacerations. Absolutely no help for the inevitable pain that her body has gone through.

[madinmaryland]

68. Samething happened to my wife, except...

Last edited Sun Nov 23, 2014, 11:15 PM - Edit history (1)

her pelvis was fractured in three placed. The doc's prescribed heavy duty narcs. And had no problem re-prescribing them.

[UglyGreed]

106. Thank you for reply

if people do not go through it they find it hard to believe.

[ecstatic]

140. Why?

Was she prescribed something less potent, like naproxen, Motrin or Tylenol? Maybe they want people to wait for the pain to hit first? It usually takes a day or so for the pain to fully kick in.

[Texasgal]

162. Because ERS

No longer give RX's for opiates if you are not seriously injured.

[MoonRiver]

37. No, I don't.

There are many sources of pain, besides cancer, that can be totally debilitating.

[Wella]

40. Other diseases like Shingles are unbearably painful

Only the opiates really work for that kind of pain.

[HockeyMom]

116. My husband didn't even take Tylenol for his Shingles

because he said it just itched like posion ivy, which is what he thought it was. Opiates for itching? I suppose not everyone is in extreme pain from Shingles like all the ads for that vax say.

[Wella]

198. Your husband was lucky and had a mild case; I know several cases in which the

people were in so much pain they were out of work for 4-5 weeks.

Count your blessings and don't deny others pain relief.

[HockeyMom]

199. Guess his Aunt was very lucky too

She wasn't in extreme pain either. My parents, now deceased, never had Shingles at all. Guess they were even "luckier".

[Wella]

201. Yes she was. I've known 3 very bad cases in my own circle

Perhaps the strain of the disease was different. Perhaps there is a genetic factor that aids your husband's family. But trust me, shingles can be very bad and the after-effects extremely painful:

http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/shingles/shingles-are-you-risking-nerve-pain

f you have shingles symptoms, get treatment now and you may avoid permanent nerve pain.

Shingles, a viral infection of the nerve roots, affects 1 million people in the U.S each year. Most people recover from their bout, but for as many as 50% of those over age 60 who have not been treated, the pain doesn't go away. It can last for months, years, or even the rest of their lives.

These people have what's called postherpetic neuralgia (PHN), the result of the shingles virus damaging the nerves of the skin. In some cases, the pain is mild. In others, even the slightest touch -- from clothing or even a breeze -- can be excruciating.

"PHN causes a great deal of suffering and high social costs," says Robert H. Dworkin, PhD, a professor in the department of anesthesiology at the University of Rochester Medical Center in Rochester, N.Y. "It can severely disrupt people's lives."

http://www.medicinenet.com/shingles_pain/views.htm

The pain of shingles is, for many people, quite striking in its severity. Shingles, also known as herpes zoster, results from a reactivation of infection with the varicella zoster virus that causes chickenpox. Anyone who has had chickenpox may develop shingles later in life, although it is most common in older people. Shingles can appear many years after the initial chickenpox infection...

...Many sufferers have described the pain as extremely severe, and some even require narcotic pain-relief medications.

[HockeyMom]

202. My husband and his Aunt are the only people

who I (66 years old) have ever known who had Shingles, which includes his parents, and mine. Luck? Certainly, this was not from vax back in those days.

[Wella]

203. Did you read the medical information I posted?

Shingles can be exceedingly painful and opiates are sometimes prescribed.

[NightWatcher]

45. I don't think anyone who is not your Dr should tell you what you can and cannot take or do

and if you don't agree with your Dr, you should find one who will act on your behalf.

[UglyGreed]

48. My doctor was the one who told us

that my problems were due to the pain medication, not the shunt which are known to fail on regular basis. He told me he could drain all the CSF out of my head but I won't it help since I'm on pain medication and depressed. Well I stop the medication and it did not help and now I feel all the effects of my head, neck and lower back problems. As for the depression, when doctors blow you off and seem to not care one does feel sad at times.

[NightWatcher]

49. Been there. My Dr's answer to my pain is to throw more muscle relaxers at me

So what if I go deaf, can't poop, and go numb according to her.

I have legit issues that cannot be masked my muscle relaxers. I too quit the hard pain meds after a surgery 3 years ago.

[UglyGreed]

51. I know I've seen your

posts and I completely understand I feel we should just get fed up and speak out about such treatment. I find that when you are taking these medications others judge you and call the complaints whining. It is not fair.

[L0oniX]

53. It should be a human right to not feel pain from a disease or any pain causing medical condition.

Only a fucking immoral asshole is ok with people being tortured by pain.

[UglyGreed]

54. From your lips/finger tips

to the ears and eyes of the DEA!!!!

[csziggy]

55. No - but I do think there should be caution for long term use

I'm not sure I could have gotten through my knee replacements - or the years before them - without opioids. I didn't use them often before the replacements, but I did appreciate having them on hand after particularly hard days. I also didn't use them long after the replacements - I hurt less the day after knee replacement than I had the day before.

I wish more doctors would work with patients on pain management - that could reduce the need for the stronger medications. Sometimes there can be other medications or non-medical ways to deal with pain. In my case an anti-inflammatory medication helped reduce the pain more than the opioids and made me less groggy.

I also believe that for many, there are no other ways to deal with pain and it is not right to wish someone to suffer because of the stigma of possible addiction. If it's a choice between debilitating pain and taking drugs, give the patient the damn drugs!

[Man from Pickens]

57. No drug should be outlawed

It should be plain as day to every thinking person that far more harm than good is done by making any of it - including the hardest and nastiest stuff - illegal.

Who benefits?
- Organized crime
- Police
- For-profit prisons

full stop

[demtenjeep]

59. I think people should mind their own business. What the DR and the Patient decide should be the onl

thing that matters.

I have severe Crohn's disease. I also have to be careful about anything I take because I have Pancreatitis a lot probably because of where the disease is and many medicines and things cause flare ups that cause pancreatitis


This last week I had to go to the ER and narrowly avoided being hospitalized yet again. The DR prescribed an additional pain med that I could "stack" with my regular pain meds to help the pain. It was so bad I was wishing to be dead.

at 5 AM the only pharmacy open was Walgreens across the street from the hospital. The doc prescribed 12 to help me get through the flare up-walgreens pharmacist threw a fit and I ended up only getting 8 because he decided that maybe it was too much. WTF

Until one lives through other people's issues and pain, it should NEVER be their business.

[southern_belle]

60. No Way!

Geez!

[williesgirl]

62. no way

[riderinthestorm]

64. No way! Nt

[Blue_In_AK]

65. No, of course not.

[U4ikLefty]

67. I had a horrible tooth infection that lasted for a week & used oxycodone for pain relief.

Thank goodness for this drug because nothing else would do the trick.

I stopped them 4 days after my extraction because I hate taking pills, but I must confess that they felt REAL good...another good reason to stop them ASAP.

[HockeyMom]

113. Dentist receptionist chased me to my car

because I didn't want the script (10 day supply?) for Tylenol with Codine after an infected tooth extracation and cyst under my gyms. She gave me an argument because I didn't want it. "But doctor says you will be in PAIN and need this". I told her that I was a Senior and had many root canals and extractions going back to my childhood. I know my own pain level far more than doctor. If I say I don't need it, I do not need it.

I went home and took ONE regular Tylenol before bed time, and that was IT. MY own pain level. One size does not fit all.

[locks]

69. Anthony Bourdain, Episode 7, Parts Unknown on CNN

is a very personal episode where Bourdain goes back to Provincetown, MA where he lived as a young kid and was addicted for a long time on heroin and other drugs. I had no idea that there is a "heroin epidemic" in New England now especially in white middle class rural towns. He visited doctors, youth groups, people of all ages from grandmas to teens trying to kick the habit. Almost all the addictions started with prescriptive pain meds.
I have relatives who went to harder drugs when they couldn't get enough opioids for their severe pain. But I did not know how hard communities and families have been hit and the terrible social consequences including suicides and deaths from overdosing. The amount of opioids being prescribed or blackmarketed is unbelievable.

Thank you for the post; we need to be aware of what is happening in our nation and in our families not only to stop addiction but to help so many who living with chronic pain.

[malokvale77]

70. Why?

Are cancer patients more deserving than others who suffer from debilitating pain?

[loyalsister]

71. Hell no!

I would hope that anyone who has had a broken bone would know better.

There are a lot of pain management facilities that help people who suffer from severe chronic pain mange their pain medications.

[Recursion]

73. The US uses more opioids than the rest of the world put together

We use 80% of all opioids, and 99% of hydrocodone: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18443641

These drugs are more dangerous than street drugs: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201404/prescription-drugs-are-more-deadly-street-drugs

It's pretty obvious (to me at least) that as a country we're doing something wrong here, though I can't think of an easy solution.

[UglyGreed]

107. But should we allow people to

Last edited Mon Nov 24, 2014, 07:41 AM - Edit history (1)

suffer? There must be an answer. I tried eleven different medications over the last twenty years and the non-opiates ones caused me more harm than good. From brain zaps and nightmares, rashes and massive weight gain and a hiatal hernia from using Celebrex for a fairly short period of time. The only problem I had on the oxycodone was constipation which was annoying but not hurting my body or mind. Why should I and others suffer and be labeled for the sins of people who abuse these medications? Most people I chat with who suffer from chronic pain are under medicated, where are all these drugs going to?

[UglyGreed]

183. Perhaps our constant state of war adds to the number of people using pain medication.

Chronic pain, opioid use by U.S. soldiers examined in new study


he prevalence of chronic pain and opioid use associated with deployment is not well known, although there are large numbers of wounded service members. The authors assessed the prevalence of chronic pain and opioid use following deployment in active-duty infantry soldiers who were not seeking treatment.



Surveys were collected in 2011 from an infantry brigade three months after service members returned from Afghanistan. The final sample included 2,597 soldiers who had been deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq. Chronic pain was defined as that lasting at least three months.

Most of the 2,597 survey participants were men, 18 to 24 years old, high school-educated, married and of junior enlisted rank. Nearly half (45.4 percent) reported combat injuries. Past-month opioid use was reported by 15.1 percent of soldiers and among them 5.6 percent of the soldiers reported no past-month pain, while 38.5 percent, 37.7 percent and 18.2 percent reported mild, moderate and severe pain, respectively. Chronic pain was reported by 44 percent of soldiers. Of these, 48.3 percent reported pain duration of a year or longer, 55.6 percent reported nearly daily or a constant frequency of pain, 51.2 percent reported moderate to severe pain and 23.2 percent reported opioid use in the past month.

"The prevalence of chronic pain (44 percent) and opioid use (15.1 percent) in this nontreatment-seeking infantry sample were higher than estimates in the civilian population of 26 percent and 4 percent respectively. … These findings suggest a large unmet need for assessment, management and treatment of chronic pain and related opioid use and misuse in military personnel after combat deployments," researchers note.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140630164243.htm

[Recursion]

185. Could well be. My Legion post does a lot of work with returning vets

And addiction, particularly to hydrocodone, is one of our biggest challenges.

[UglyGreed]

196. Don't get me wrong if these men

and women are suffering we must ease their pain but the VA must do a better job supporting those who are injured in the line of duty.

[madfloridian]

76. No. I saw hubby suffer too much pain his last illness

He had terrible pain from shingles and other problems, but they would not give pain medicine. They gave him drugs that gave him convulsions, but they refused pain medicine.

[UglyGreed]

108. Sorry to hear about your

loved one, it must be very hard to sit and watch someone you love suffer needlessly I tried many other types of medications and they did more harm than good.

[mythology]

77. As somebody who is about to undergo major grade knee surgery, no

I'm going to have my leg sliced open from mid-thigh to mid-shin, have my kneecap taken apart, new cartilage put in, my patella tendon released, a chunk of my tibia removed and my patella tendon screwed into a new location. I don't think that surgery is feasible without something like oxycontin or vicodin. I certainly wouldn't be willing to undergo that surgery with just tylenol.

Do people abuse them? Absolutely, but there is that risk in cough syrup. Additionally, there is research into non-addictive opiates that would offer pain relief but without as many dangerous side effects.

[Spirochete]

81. Of course not

not all excruciating pain is caused by cancer. If a dependency develops, deal with that after the pain gets better. One fucking thing at a time...

[ZombieHorde]

82. No. End the war on drugs. nt

[Prophet 451]

83. Not just no but FUCK NO!

I have arthritis in both knees and some serious problem in my back that hasn't been fully identified yet. I am in pain constantly, every moment I'm awake. When I stand up, my knees scream at me. If I stay standing for more than a couple of minutes, my back is agony (and that's with my crutches). I am only able to move enough to get from my bed to my desk downstairs due to the morphine patch on my arm and the large quantities of dihydrocodeine I take every day.

[catbyte]

84. Are you kidding?

Without them I would've killed myself a decade ago. No lie.

[UglyGreed]

110. I hear you

been there, might someday decide enough is enough. What keeps me going is my wife and my children since I know the pain I will cause them if I did. Otherwise it's not worth being an burden, disrespected and most of the time a recluse.

[RKP5637]

85. Anyone wanting it outlawed have probably never suffered from incurable ongoing severe

pain. Some people just don't understand what that is like.

[truedelphi]

206. Exactly. n/t

[Jamastiene]

87. No.

There are more things than cancer that cause chronic pain on a daily basis. People should be allowed relief from the pain. Why the FDA and all these other groups are slowly banning pain medications is a mystery to me. I don't get it. So many people in so much pain and they are banning stuff left and right.

My aunt has been in misery since they banned her Darvocet. So, they put her on Tramadol. Just a couple weeks ago, they made her go sign a bunch of forms promising to get tested and all sorts of other stipulations on being prescribed the same medicine she has already been on for a year or two now. The thing is, even though she has followed all of their new rules, they still have not refilled her prescription. She's weening off of it and in horrible pain right now because they are dragging their feet on refilling the prescription. It is all she can do. I wish the VA would hurry up and catch up and refill it for her.

She's in agony and there isn't much I can do to help. Without the pain medicine, it sounds like I'm torturing her in here, even though I have no clue what to do to help. I wish I knew a few drug dealers. I'd resort to that at this point, simply because so many groups are pushing to take away all the pain medicines that work on chronic pain.

[KMOD]

88. Absolultely not

I don't like politicians getting involved in this.

However, I also think they should be careful with their scripts. Both of my daughters were prescribed heavy duty pain relief for their wisdom teeth removal.

My oldest did take one. Hated the effect and felt pretty sick from it. It was obviously overkill for her particular pain.

My youngest didn't even take an advil, and was fine in 24 hours. I threw out the pills.

It has to be a case by case basis. And it should ultimately be between the patient and the doctor.

[WhiteAndNerdy]

89. I think government should stay out of medicine.

The only reason government should regulate medicine at all is to protect patients from snake oil and abusive or incompetent doctors. Addiction is a medical problem. Let the medical profession deal with it.

I am tired of people calling for things to be banned in general, actually. Banning something is not the solution to every problem.

[Marrah_G]

90. No

Why should people be in pain if they don't have to be.

Suffering is not a virtue or a test of character.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. No.

Honestly, I'm more worried about pain not being managed aggressively enough, or doctors too afraid of the DEA to write the prescriptions people need, than I am afraid someone might catch a buzz from pain meds.

[DesertFlower]

92. there's all kinds of pain. mine

is from scoliosis, herniated discs and osteo arthritis. i had 6 epidurals at a pain center which did not work. i tried medical marijuana which made it worse.

i'm prescribed 10-325 norco 2 a day. i break them in half and take 1/2 at a time.

when i first took them years ago i felt a little buzz which i didn't like. sometimes i got jumpy -- other times tired. now i don't feel anything. i can take a pill and go on about my daily business including driving pain free.

i think the DEA made a big mistake reclassifying it to Schedule II. it's my understanding that my doc can write me 3 different prescriptions which must be filled within a 90 day period. no refills.

his office is about 40 miles round trip. i'm partially disabled but can still make the drive by myself, but what's going to happen in a few years? i'll have to ask a friend to drive me or spend over $100 for a cab.

i've heard that heroin is very easy to get. in fact i live in an upscale neighborhood and was shocked to find out that there's a big heroin problem in the high school. addicts will probably turn to heroin instead. addicts always find ways to get their "fix".

so what the DEA did was punish people like me who are in pain.

don't tell me to get off of it. i remember how bad the pain was before i started taking it.

another thing. nurse practitioners and physician's assistants can no longer prescribe schedule II drugs. it must be done by a doctor. when i was being treated at the pain center before my primary agreed to write my RXs they were prescribed by nurse practitioners. you only saw a doc for a consultation or once in a while to see how you were doing. now the doctors have to take the time away from doing consultations and other procedures like epidurals and other treatments to write RXs.

the whole thing sucks.

[TheFrenchRazor]

94. you've got to be kidding. screw the nanny-state. nt

[LeftishBrit]

95. No

I have known people in agony from disorders that were not malignant.

There is an assumption in some quarters that addiction is the worst thing that can happen. Severe pain is worse than most addictions.

A ban of this nature would almost certainly result in more suicides.

[cali]

97. No.

I have CRPS. It's hideously painful and I take opiates very judiciously. Not remotely addicted, but sometimes the pain is just too much.

[MFM008]

98. NEED the option

I try to save it for the worst pain. But spinal degeneration, sciatica and fibromyalgia are day to day, I cant take aspirin products. This is a must have need to use option.

[eShirl]

99. I think we should help people in pain get relief from their pain, whatever works for them.

[JustAnotherGen]

101. No

My husband had seven surgeries on his left hand, wrist, left shoulder, and lower arm between May 2011 and December of last year. He needed those meds for about 3-4 weeks after each if those surgeries.

I needed thm for a week after my left salpingectomy.

I understand people can get addicted - but so many people song get addicted that need it. And with push for health insurance to move people out of the hospital five minutes after waking up and sending them home - that's the risk we take.

[CountAllVotes]

102. NO

MS is a painful disease. How would you like being crippled up to the point you can barely move and/or get out of bed. I am not taking over 80 mg. of morphine luckily but this pisses me off!

[Yo_Mama]

111. No, there is nothing unique about cancer pain that would indicate this

Also, there are many people who use this type of med for structural back pain who do so successfully, at low doses for years, and who are not what I would consider addicted.

Note that I write this despite severe personal aversion to painkillers of any type. They are grossly overused.

The reason I take this position is that you see a lot of medical injury from Tylenol/ibuprofen. Appropriate dosage of opiate-type pain pills can prevent it, and allows many patients to continue active functional lives.

I think recommendations and awareness education for doctors may be appropriate, but in the end this decision should be left up to doctors and patients.

[muriel_volestrangler]

114. Your thread title is a strawman - they are not talking about 'outlawing' them

You also left 'chronic' out from the thread title, though at least the thread discussion has concentrated on chronic conditions. But the AAN is saying the risks normally outweigh the benefits, not that the drugs should be banned. They are saying pain specialists should be involved. This, I think, is the heart of their argument:

"It seems likely that, in the long run, the use of opioids chronically for most routine conditions, such as chronic low back pain, chronic headaches, or fibromyalgia, will not prove to be worth the risk," Franklin wrote in the paper. "However, even for more severe conditions, such as destructive rheumatoid arthritis, sickle-cell disease, severe collagen disease, or severe neuropathic pain, prescribers need specific guidance on dosing, publicly available brief tools to effectively screen patients for risk, and guidance on how to monitor patients for early signs of severe adverse events, misuse, or opioid use disorder."

The statement lists several best practices, including accessing state PDMP data before prescribing these drugs, routine screening for substance abuse, and avoiding dose escalation above 80 to 120 mg/day morphine-equivalent.

It notes that some alternative pain therapies may be cognitive-behavioral therapy, exercise, spinal manipulation, and interdisciplinary rehabilitation.

That is light years away from 'outlawing' the drugs.

[UglyGreed]

115. So sue me N/T

check the edits.............. I live it and you can not tell me there isn't a war on pain medication. People were asking why non cancer so I added the link. Think what you like but don't tell me what I have had to deal with for over twenty years.

[muriel_volestrangler]

122. In #107, you said "the non-opiates ones caused me more harm than good"

By the logic you have been using, we should be also be asking "do you think non-opiate pain medications should be outlawed for noncancer sufferers?"

[UglyGreed]

128. No since I don't think any medication that

would benefit someone should be restricted. We are all different and things do affect us differently. Imagine that!!! For example, I can take penicillin but some can't, do I want other antibiotics outlawed of course not. It should be the same for those who suffer from chronic pain. Whatever floats your boat.

[adigal]

132. There's a war on pain meds because of the deaths and addictions

At Staten Island Hospital, they now have more deaths from prescription meds than illegal drugs. It is more suburban than the other boroughs.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/pr2013/pr013-13.shtml

[UglyGreed]

142. So I should suffer

I did not die and I did not abuse the medication. How many of those deaths are suicides because of the never ending pain??? What about alcohol deaths???

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20140626/1-in-10-deaths-among-adults-tied-to-alcohol-cdc

Study also found those who died from drinking-related causes lost roughly 30 years of life

By Kathleen Doheny

HealthDay Reporter



THURSDAY, June 26, 2014 (HealthDay News) -- One in 10 deaths among U.S. adults is linked to excessive alcohol consumption, federal officials reported Thursday.

While people often link drinking with deaths from motor vehicle accidents and chronic liver disease, many other conditions that can cause death are tied to alcohol, said lead researcher Mandy Stahre.

"Excessive drinking is associated with a lot more causes of death than what we tend to focus on. Alcohol intake plays a role in at least 54 different conditions linked to death," said Stahre, an epidemiologist at the Washington state Department of Health who conducted the study while at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Among them: acute pancreatitis, psychosis, esophageal cancer, breast cancer, oral cancer, falling injuries, suicide and drowning.

[adigal]

150. There are other drugs when used in combination are just as effective

AND those who are addicted (I am NOT saying you are) are going to be the ônes fighting most vociferously for the right to have easy access to these highly addictive drugs.

I am studying for a substance abuse license and prescription drug use puts more people in rehabs now than illegal drug use.

[UglyGreed]

175. I've tried eleven other medications

four surgeries in my twenty years and opiates were my last choice. Believe me I did not want to go down this road but I had to take care of my children. I kept it at low dose and never tried to be completely pain free since I don't think that is possible in my case. Now I will get my shunt fixed and then see what is my next move. One needs to respect the power of these drugs which I believe I have done.

[kcr]

177. Spoken like someone who has never suffered from chronic pain

"AND those who are addicted (I am NOT saying you are) are going to be the ônes fighting most vociferously for the right to have easy access to these highly addictive drugs."

[UglyGreed]

118. Plus my OP was a question for DUers not a

fact that pain medication is going to be outlawed.

[muriel_volestrangler]

119. That's a strawman, then

Set up a suggestion that no-one is making, and then ask 'is this right'? And then link to someone making an argument that is related, but significantly different.

[UglyGreed]

131. When doctors refuse to prescribe

pain medication, when pharmacies choose not to carry them, when pharmacists refuse to fill prescriptions it might as well be outlawed................

[Go Vols]

159. +1

[Vinca]

120. Absolutely.

A few years ago I had a complication from shingles called "postherpetic neuralgia." It sounds benign enough, but the pain was beyond imagination. I ended up in the ER for the first time in 40 years when I couldn't walk without lightning bolts of pain in one side. At the ER they gave me Demerol IV and it barely touched it (and I'm a person who has never taken any painkillers). The neurologist I eventually saw told me what I was experiencing was probably the worst pain a human being can endure. I took serious pain meds for about a week until it began to subside. Addiction crossed my mind when I started taking the stuff, but it became apparent when I went off them that if the pain was gone the usefulness of the pain meds was also gone. GET THE SHINGLES VACCINE!!!

[Seeking Serenity]

121. Not just no, but HELL NO (n/t)

[Iggo]

123. Of course not.

It would be idiotic to not treat pain with pain medication just because the pain isn't caused by cancer.

[MillennialDem]

124. God no. I just had major surgery in Serbia (which only uses opoid medication while the patient is

in the hospital) and it would suck ass recovering without them. I got a prescription from home and brought oxys with me. They're black magic and I say this as someone who avoids ALL illegal drugs and alcohol because of relatives with addiction problems,

It hurts without them and I've had to ration them a lot... ie one per day the last few days I'm here so I have enough for the plane ride home.

[TBF]

125. I'm more worried about the

potential banning of Sudafed. It is the one medicine I can count on to release sinus pressure (other than prednisone which I hate to request very often because I know the effects of steroids).

But to answer the direct question - no I don't think they should be only available for cancer patients.

[merrily]

126. You might want to distinguish between long term and post-operative and other short term use.

A patient coming out of surgery that involved a sizeable incision probably needs morphine initially and something like oxycodone until they can walk, etc.. I took ONE oxycodone after being discharged from the hospital after breaking my humerus about two years ago and still have the rest of the bottle.

[UglyGreed]

133. Ok I will edit my post

I understand your point.

[Feral Child]

127. Unqualified "No."

Severe chronic pain can make like not worth living. Pain relief is an important and humane treatment. Addiction is a secondary concern.

[adigal]

129. Yes. I have had three family members get addicted

I have spoken to many doctors and nurses who say that there was no reason to ever create oxycodone. Other painkillers in combination can do the same thing without addicting you in a week. And doctors give it out like candy, which is malpractice, in my view.

[Ilsa]

135. Double-whammy with Lortab: the acetominophen

can damage the liver if overdosed.

[UglyGreed]

137. Candy really???

I find that meme very odd. I'm going to be blunt here since it is your view that people should suffer never ending pain. Your family members weakness should be the reason other must suffer....really that is very nice of you. Some people abuse food should we all starve??? As for the "doctors and nurses" some of them abuse drugs at a high rate.


http://www.modernmedicine.com/modern-medicine/news/modernmedicine/modern-medicine-feature-articles/drug-addiction-among-nurses-con?page=full



YOUR COLLEAGUE on the night shift is a stellar nurse. Her background, experience, and demonstrated skills are top-notch. She is working extra shifts to help cover expenses while her husband is between jobs. While raising three young children, she also cares for her severely disabled father. You wonder how she does it all.

This description fit Patricia Holloran, RN, whom friends and colleagues regarded as a "super nurse"—until hospital administration and the Connecticut Department of Health confronted her for drug diversion.

Holloran was introduced to the nasal spray butorphanol (Stadol) when her doctor changed her migraine prescription. She often administered the injected form of this powerful narcotic to women in labor. When the women did not require a full dose, Holloran justified using the leftovers to help her sleep after a long night shift. It also helped her cope with the stress of taking on extra shifts, being the primary breadwinner, and caring for her three sons—along with her father, who suffered from rheumatoid arthritis. Months later, she was pocketing whole vials from the dispenser. "Stadol is not physically addictive," Holloran said. "I thought I could stop at any time. I was wrong."


http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/819223


Drug Abuse Among Doctors: Easy, Tempting, and Not Uncommon

Tomorrow -- Tomorrow, I Will Stop

That's what Marc Myer, a family practice physician in Minnesota, told himself each day as he stole prescription opiates from his patients to feed his addiction.

But for Dr. Myer and many physicians like him, "tomorrow" was a long time coming. For doctors addicted to prescription medications, recovery often begins with -- and depends upon -- intervention by their peers and coworkers.


I have weaned myself off of fentanyl because I lost a lot of weight and now oxycodone because doctors are using it as an excuse not to treat my Hydrocephalus. I never abused any medication but I have been abused by some people, doctors and nurses with attitudes like yours. Thanks for the reply. It felt good to get that off my chest.

[adigal]

149. This is my opinion, which we were asked for

If you don't like it, move along. Thanks.

[UglyGreed]

180. And I gave you mine

as a person that has dealt with pain personal and know the toll it has taken on the lives of my children and of course my wife who has stood by my side since day one. I have the right to speak out against ignorance about this subject since most chronic pain suffers do not act in the way of the as your family members that you mentioned. Candy indeed, that is BS and I know that as to be a fact. 99% of doctors do not give these medications out like candy, it sickens me to hear such garbage. my statement is true and it's been this way since
when I first got hurt and even more so today.

BTW I would love to move along but my suffering does not allow me to, due to the folks who think that it is alright to allow others to suffer never ending pain. I hope that your family members find the strength to overcome their addictions, be it drugs, tobacco or alcohol. They need to be strong since there are always going to be temptations out there even if pain medication is outlawed or severely restricted as it seems to be moving in that direction.

All they have to do is dig deep down inside, accept they have problem and look for support from you and other family members, the medical community, God or whatever they need to get over there abuse. There are tools they can use, they must want to use them. If they are gone then that is a shame since they did not have the support they drastically needed to survive. Thank you for the reply and good luck.

[pecwae]

154. Have yet to ever

experience a doctor 'giving it out like candy'. I don't know what medical professionals the people claiming this are seeing. All I've ever heard and seen where people in chronic pain begging for relief and the physician being so scared of the DEA that we're told to 'learn to live with it'.

[adigal]

160. My sister-in-law was prescribed a powerful opiate for ten years

My brother, 9 years
My husband's cousin, three years.

These are drugs that are supposed to be temporary. The potential for abuse is great. Just that so many people here are so defensive makes me think there's quite a bit of denial of addiction going on here.

[pecwae]

168. Pain is not always temporary.

And thanks for calling those of us who need and use drug based pain relief addicts. Quite compassionate.

[Xithras]

163. The addiction rate for people without previous addictive traits is less than 3%

Oxy addiction is primarily a problem among people with pre-existing addictive traits or behaviors. People with a history of other drug use, people with drinking issues, and people with addictive psychological traits are at far more risk, and make up the overwhelming bulk of those who get addicted to these drugs.

A BETTER solution would simply be to require psychological screenings for those who need them on a long term basis. If you have addictive personality traits, then you don't get the addictive drugs. If you are clear of those traits (and most people are), then you get the better drugs.

The real problem is that INSURANCE COMPANIES don't want to pay for the extra screenings, so they won't permit any real discussion about it.

[Ilsa]

134. No, but doctors need to prescribe them to be taken over

A briefer period of time, unless the patient is terminal. Addiction happens after 1-2 weeks, from what I've read.

Also, I think there should be laws requiring that the person picking up the Rx at the pharmacy be required to show their ID, and that the ID be recorded and stored in a secure system for Schedule II drugs. Prescription fraud is a problem, and due to privacy laws, video cameras are not allowed to record anyone picking up just any prescription. Recording this data will allow for the prosecution of Rx fraudsters if they are drug sellers, and treatment if they are hooked.

We require ID for buying beer. Opiates are far more dangerous.

[UglyGreed]

141. I've been in pain

since 1991, so I'm just out of luck??? I started out going to chiropractor and acupuncture five days a week. Then physical therapy for the first ten years. Those helped for a while but then they caused more pain and the cost was too much after I had to settle my WC case because I was harassed by the carrier looking to catch me trying to live my life by taking in a garbage can or god forbid I mowed my small lawn at times. Neighbors did not help with that since they told the carrier about these outrageous events. Now I can't mow, I can't do things I enjoy like playing ball with my son or at times I can't even watch my daughter at her dance recitals. Now I can not sleep more than two hours because the pain does not let me. This is my life, not much fun is it? I'm not looking for sympathy just some empathy because I would never wish this on anyone. Sorry if this comes across as mean spirited I don't how I could make people understand any other way.

[Ilsa]

155. There will always need to be exceptions.

And it sounds like your case is one of them. But until recently, doctors have been writing scripts for them like they were placebos. Doctors need to be watchful and refer patients to neurologists or other specialists who can help with chronic pain.

A dental surgeon wrote one for me for a special root canal where most of the nerves were dead. He wrote it for 40 tabs! I used the meds for less than 2 days and threw away the remainder.

I have a relative that has dropped out of court-mandated rehab and has lost her kids over opiate abuse. At one point, the 5'7" woman dropped to 84 pounds and had fluid imbalances, skin splitting open on her legs, and they wondered if she was close to liver failure.

And I do feel for you. I'm sorry you are suffering. It's the abusers that are making it more difficult for you and everyone else to get easier care. In Texas, Advanced Nurse Practitioners and Physician Assistants can no longer write scripts for those opiates unless they are employed at a hospital or hospice. There are also no refills and no call-in or electronic orders for them (at least in some states), meaning the patient has to make another trip to the dr for a physical script.

I hope for the best for you.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

136. unless Du'ers have degrees in pain management, their opinions are really going to be unnecessary

and uninformed

[UglyGreed]

138. What about my opinion

since I have been dealing with chronic pain since 1991?? Should my opinion be respected???

[La Lioness Priyanka]

146. its not about respect. my comment was said because most people have idiosyncratic opinions

based on their very small and subjective experiences, with zero understanding about pain management.

to me this is a lot like the abortion issue and many other medical issues. its between the person affected (patient) and the expert. the rest of our opinions are just really unnecessary.

[UglyGreed]

148. I understand

I'm getting a little thin skinned since this subject is a big part of my life, I need to step away for awhile and gather my thoughts. Sorry if I came across rude or condescending.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

152. no, i get it. this is what i mean, this conversation for those of us not in pain or those of us who

not pain experts is an unnecessary conversation. this is a convo for those in pain to have with pain experts. i am not sure why the rest of us need to even have an opinion about it.

whats next? are we to opine about how much chemo a cancer patient should get?

[UglyGreed]

176. People long to be accepted

not belittled and not be perceived as weak. It's like when people put down teachers, the teachers get upset and speak up about. I've seen so many threads here on DU about pain medications and it's evil ways. Not everyone sells their meds or abuses them. Not everyone runs pills and then steals something to sell to get more. We are not criminals we are patients with an incurable infliction. It shows no mercy, it just kills you very slowly taking years and years to do so. I needed to speak up, it may help people understand .

[Sunlei]

139. No, people in pain should have all medical options to stop pain. However, the Pharm. Corps

know exactly how much medication they sold way above the actual usage by Doctors RX.

The Pharm. Corps know who the buyers are of those millions of 'extra' doses. Punish them and their wholesaler pushers.

[ecstatic]

143. I imagine long term pain could lead to depression or worse

depending upon the outlook and available treatments.

At the end of the day, both choices are pretty awful: either pop pills and be in a semi-high state at all times or be in severe pain all the time.

I wonder what the suicide rate is for people faced with that choice (or people who aren't given a choice).

[HockeyMom]

144. Can you agree that we all don't have the same threshold for pain?

People react differently to pain. Right or wrong? That was why I said one size does not fit all. Yet, it seems that too many doctors today think it is the same for everyone. They don't even bother to ask the patient.

After my husband's first hip replacement surgery, he was given a 10 day supply of Oxycodone for pain. Doctor gave them to him so he must take them? My husband started nodding out on them at home, and at work. Driving? Terrifying thought! It only took one week. He stopped taking them, and experienced withdrawal; shaking, chills, sweating, etc. Pain? He said that the WITHDRAWAL from them was far worse than "pain".

His second hip replacement surgery, he told the doctor "No more of that Oxycodone CRAP". He was given something very mild, and only took them for 3 days after surgery. So where was all that excruciating PAIN that he was supposed to get? I guess not there this time because he had something else to compare it with.

Maybe it was also the same with his bout of Shingles? Again, not the terrible pain that the ads all say. So what really IS "excruciating pain"? Different strokes for different folks? I suppose I personally have never experienced it myself from surgery for a ruptured ectopic pregnancy to dozens of root canals, infected tooth extractions, cysts, etc. While they certainly hurt, I cannot say that any of those caused excruciating pain. I certainly didn't need pain meds after any of them. Different thresholds of pain for different people.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

165. I was once like you.

I never took pain meds after surgeries and I've had a lot of major surgeries. I felt like I was healing and recovering and the pain was lessening every hour, which it was. The pain kept me from moving about too much and doing damage to incisions etc.

About 6 years ago I became chronically ill with a disease for which there is no cure or effective treatments. It continues to do damage to my body. Its created holes in my bones and is growing in my marrow. My muscles are effected - everything hurts - all day everyday. It's not going away. I've tried everything to get better on my own. I thought I was tough and had all the answers.

I can't walk far anymore or do much. I have half trained horses in my corrals, a beloved garden going unloved, a once very profitable business floating belly up, wonderful places to explore going unexplored, a puppy wanting to go walkies....... I'm not me anymore. Chronic disease does that. It changes the way you think and how you see life. I have muscle weakness. Sometimes I can't raise my arms to my face or hold anything. I have bones crumbling in my back. Something is going on in my neck.

I've been taking hydrocodone regularly for 6.5 years and it lets me sit without pain, so I can have a chuckle, read a book, travel by car/plane. At night now the pain is sometimes too bad for me to fall asleep and a hydrocodone lets me fall blissfully to sleep. I have also had injections into the holes in my coccyx that really helped that area.

I have to travel to England every year to see my very elderly parents. I had to extend my trip this year by another month and I didn't have enough pain meds with me. My husband was going to send me some but I told him not to bother because of all the DEA rigmarole. I had to really ration and cut back. There were a few days I had no pain meds and some days I could only have one. I saved pills for when I had to really do something for my parents. Most of the time I sat in pain too scared to move. I'd lie in bed unable to sleep because of the pain.

On the days I had no pain meds I never experienced any of the 'withdrawal' symptoms described by your husband. Different threshold of addiction for different people.

[HockeyMom]

170. I walked around for days with that ruptured ectopic

it just felt like menstrual cramps, no excruciating pain. It was only the bleeding that wouldn't stop, that brought me to the hospital. Dental issues? "Why did you wait so long?" "Didn't you have a toothache?" Dentists over decades have said that to me. No, I did not have a toothache. Routine fillings? Pass on the Novocaine. "THAT doesn't hurt you?" Nope. "I wish every patient had your threshold of pain". Dentists, and that OB/GYN, have said that to me. Maybe just me, but that is how I am and have been since childhood. How in the world do women ever have natural childbrith w/o pain medication? Lamaze is just a crock? How does that work? Distraction from the pain, breathing, and concentration on something else. It can be done with other pain also.

Different people. We are not all clones of each other.

[CTyankee]

173. I agree with you. It's true, IMO. HOwever, every time this subject comes up on DU I have found so

many people here that have related their experiences with doctors who ignore or discount their pain and regulations that are very onerous on people who are suffering great pain, that I am now convinced that we are largely "under-medicated" as a society (we can't be just a bunch of whiners here at DU). Why is that, I wonder? I know that abuse of pain meds is rampant in this country but don't we need a more rational, and less Draconian, way of dealing with constant pain just because there are abusers of these meds?

[Avalux]

145. This is such a slippery slope. First and paramount - pain is subjective and cannot be quantitated.

There is no real way to measure the amount of pain a person experiences, regardless of the etiology. Chronic pain, day after day, can literally drive a person to want to end their life.

Opiates are an option for pain management and should be available, but well-regulated because of the potential for abuse. None of us have a right to tell someone in pain what they can and cannot take to alleviate their pain.

[Aristus]

147. No.

And I say this as a medical provider who is trying to keep my chronic pain patients away from narcotics with a whip and a chair.

There are so many reasons why narcotics are not appropriate for long-term management of chronic pain: addiction, tolerance, constipation, respiratory depression, narcotic hyperalgesia, etc. Not to mention that it simply masks the symptom (pain) rather than treating the underlying cause.

Still, as with reducing the number of smokers, outlawing the addictive substance in question is ultimately less effective than changing the culture surrounding its use.

We didn't outlaw cigarettes. We simply banned smoking in just about any place a person might want to light up. As a result, the societal percentage of habitual smokers has decreased substantially since the 1970's.

Now we just need to change the culture surrounding the prescribing and taking of narcotic medications.

[fredamae]

153. No one should suffer

because of Bureaucracy and that's all it is.

The answer is NO.

Doctors should be free to diagnose and prescribe what treatment/therapies are best for their patients With their patients without being "hamstrung" by congress and the incessant War on Drugs (for profit-not public safety)
I, personally do not use any of these type drugs because the damned stuff makes me violently ill..but for those who can tolerate them and indeed find some relief from severe pain? There should be Zero limits outside the Doctor Patient relationship.

It's Big Nanny State Government

[djean111]

158. Why would anyone want to sentence anyone else to constant pain?

That is appalling. Anyone who wants to do that, should have the same pain, too. IMO.

[pecwae]

169. Apparently, because a chance for

addiction by one is cause to deny pain relief for many. Really fucking unbelievable.

[One_Life_To_Give]

161. Suicide rate too low or something?

Seeing how crippled up the wife is on some mornings, when making it out to the couch in the next room is a significant undertaking. Pain management really should be left up to the Dr(s) who are managing the case. Or maybe the people proposing such should spend a day with an RA Flare on top of a slipped disk.

[abakan]

164. NO...

I think if someone is in chronic pain, the only question is, what and how much will it take to alleviate the pain. Cancer or non cancer, pain is pain and everyone deserves relief.

[TheKentuckian]

167. For fuck's sake no.

[HockeyMom]

172. Don't force ANY Health Care on somebody else

From Pain Meds to Stop Smoking to Wellness/Preventative Care to ANY Health Care. YOUR BODY, Your choice. That old slogan doesn't just apply to female's reproductive rights. My views are that the ACA is a TAX as the SC said. Pay the tax. YOUR choice whether you choose to use it or not. Too many people, especially health care providers, seem to think that this is Carte Blanche for them to impose their standards on everyone. WE are in control now. Sorry, no you aren't.

My husband's cardiologist after his heart attack gave me a very dirty look when he heard that I smoked. I smoke OUTSIDE and not around my husband. No 2nd hand smoke there. Tough, if you don't like it. I am not YOUR patient and never will be. I would rather be dead on my kitchen floor than have you dictating what I should or should not do. I mean that at my age. It goes for the entire health care program for me also, not just smoking.

[NaturalHigh]

179. No, absolutely not.

[UglyGreed]

181. I want to thank those

who rec this thread and those who show support, compassion and empathy for those who suffer from never ending, life draining, isolating, ostracizing, and at times, for those who can not deal with the pain anymore, life ending chronic pain suffers and the families that love them. No one gives flowers to chronic pain suffers and it is a crying shame.

[LeftishBrit]

182. BTW, I do agree with one recommendation here

I do think that people with chronic pain should be referred to pain specialists. It's a complex condition, and most GPs and other doctors may lack the specific expertise to treat it properly; and for example may indeed not recognize all the possible side-effects of the medications.

However, especially as there is still insufficient funding for specialized pain treatment, I fear that the consequence of such recommendations will be for doctors to be scared to give people adequate pain medication in case they get into trouble for abetting drug addiction; and that as a result, many patients will have to endure unnecessary severe suffering; and some may be indeed driven into the illegal drug market; into the arms of quacks; or even to suicide.

[UglyGreed]

184. Whistleblowers say military doctors and VA have overprescribed powerful narcotics

Maybe the VA is the candy store???

The enemy at home: Veterans addicted and dying from VA pain pills

Whistleblowers say military doctors and VA have overprescribed powerful narcotics for more than a decade.

An Eyewitness News investigation shows thousands of US soldiers, airmen, sailors and Marines survived the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan only to be ambushed back home by an unexpected enemy. Military records and independent studies obtained by 13 Investigates show many returning veterans received staggering amounts of powerful narcotics to treat their physical and emotional wounds. Veterans and military insiders are now coming forward to expose the Department of Veterans Affairs’ flawed and dangerous pain management program. They insist that program accidentally killed returning servicemen and destroyed thousands of lives.

http://www.wthr.com/story/25336980/2014/04/24/the-enemy-at-home-veterans-addicted-dying-from-va-pain-pills

[UglyGreed]

187. Lewiston man pleads guilty in UPS medication theft case

According to court records, in 2013, Brown worked for the United Parcel Service loading trucks at a UPS facility in Auburn, Delahanty reported. On four occasions between March 29 and June 19, 2013, Brown stole packages containing prescription pain relief medications, including Percocet and Oxycodone, from UPS trucks that he was loading, Delahanty reported. The medications in those packages had been shipped from a U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs pharmacy to patients of the VA.

http://www.portlanddailysun.me/index.php/newsx/courts-and-cops/11555-lewiston-man-pleads-guilty-in-ups-medication-theft-case

[pecwae]

189. Not in my experience

and that of the vets I personally know. I went through the VA pain management program for herniated discs. I endured spinal injections on countless occasions risking infection, even paralysis. They wanted to do surgeries and I refused. I've worked in the VA and have seen the results of too many surgeries there. Now I get a very small amount of low dose narcotic pain medication from them. I never ask for more although I've needed it from time to time. If you ask you get labeled an addict much like I've been labeled here.

"Maybe the VA is the candy store???" isn't necessary.

[UglyGreed]

192. Well when these pain medications are shipped and they can be

easily intercepted. I included some links below, I have many more to add to the discussion. Also I have to go pain management each month for my "safety" and the safety of others since I may sell my meds. They require urine tests that I must pay for, also for my "safety". Being disabled I have no income and that cost is passed onto my wife. I don't want anyone to suffer but the VA is being lazy and should be more diligent in their efforts to help the Vets and control the movement of these powerful drugs.

[pecwae]

194. Pain meds I receive

from the V.A. are shipped via UPS and require a signature.

[UglyGreed]

195. They can and do get stolen by UPS employees N/T

[ret5hd]

209. Pharmacies get robbed.

Should they stop carrying pain meds???

What do ya' wanna bet the %'age of pain meds stolen by USPS employees is in a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent? Sounds more like a way to dump on those goddamned unionized teat-suckers than an actual issue.

Just saying'.

[UglyGreed]

193. You know what I have an idea.

Since we spend billions on the military How about we hire retired Vets to deliver these powerful narcotics to those Vets who are homebound and suffering from horrible pain. The chronic pain Vets would benefit two ways, knowing that they were not forgotten by their brothers in arms and would not risk suffering from withdrawal if their shipment is stolen. IMO it's a winning solution, both mentally and physically.

[seaglass]

190. I think when people are referring to a candy store they mostly are talking about how easy it

is to get opiates for short term pain relief and how sometimes the amount of pills prescribed is more than needed. Long term pain relief is a completely different story.

Fortunately the FDA just approved a new abuse-deterrent opiate last week. I don't think they are trying to ban opiates but there is a problem with opiate addiction - and I personally know addicts and the devastation this can cause - and the FDA is responding to it.

http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm423977.htm

[UglyGreed]

197. all I know is that when I started going to

pain management in 2000, (I was sent there by a neurologist) we tried all other options before I started on the pain medication.

[Eleanors38]

186. No. I let my pain killers sit half empty after a pancreatic

flare-up subsided. I prefer

But the heavy stuff is necessary for some. I am amazed, however, how much stuff is dosed out for conditions far less painful than a jammed bile duct in the pancreas.

[UglyGreed]

188. The hardest part is that

we have no idea what person's pain levels are. I have heard that some women have horrible, terrible pain during their menstrual cycles and sometimes require strong pain medication. As a man I could never understand the pain they go through but who I'm I to judge them??? It hard for all those involved.

[Eleanors38]

191. This is true.

[hedgehog]

204. No - but we need team based treatment for chronic pain -

- a thorough medical work-up to identify any condition causing the pain

- a thorough session with a Physical therapist to identify any conditions causing pain and/or offer remedies such as heat, cold, manipulation, exercise, electro-stimulation, etc.

- a thorough discussion with a psychiatric social worker and/or social worker to identify any family dynamics, economic issues, work issues etc. that may be causing or aggravating the pain, or possibly hindering the patient's ability to deal with it.

My own mother was sent to a pain clinic and got no relief, just assembly line steroid injections. Ten minutes with a good physical therapist who identified that her hip was slightly out of joint, and her pain was gone. Everyone has heard of fake pain clinics that are really distributing scripts for opiates for anyone who walks in the door. Far worse, IMO, are the clinics (often associated with a reputable university or hospital) which fail to adequately diagnose the patient.

[99Forever]

210. Having undergone gallbladder surgery a week and a half ago...

... I'll give you a complete and unqualified NO.

So, baby can't chew steak, so everyone eats mush, right?

No thanks, I'm a responsible adult that had zero problem using the Oxycontin I was prescribed for about a week and stopping when it was no longer needed. What in the world would lead you to think that only cancer patients suffer extreme pain of the level that requires these medications?