What motivates the Pro-Life Movement?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

* I didn't provide an "Other" option but feel free to state them.

31 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Saving the Unborn
	13 (42%)
	Following Biblical Law
	0 (0%)
	Protecting Women
	0 (0%)
	Saving Traditional Marriage
	0 (0%)
	Giving Women More Choices
	0 (0%)
	Giving Fathers Their Rights
	0 (0%)
	Taking Away Womens Rights
	3 (10%)
	Punishing Naughty Ladies Who Don't Want Children but Enjoy Sex
	13 (42%)
	Protecting Patriarchy
	2 (6%)
	Singing Hymns on the Sidewalk or Blowing Up Stuff
	0 (0%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[SheilaT]

1. It's a little more complicated than just any one of those.

But in my opinion it comes down to a need to control women.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. I agree.

[yuiyoshida]

48. I agree also

[sakabatou]

52. Yup

[Johonny]

59. Protecting Patriarchy

pretty much covers that and yup. Saving the unborn is the cover for the need to control women. Always has been. If they wanted to protect the unborn they'd support birth control, universal health care, sex education... etc. But they don't. They don't care about the unborn, they care about the delusional view of the role of men in society versus women and the fantastical view on pregnancy.

[REP]

2. Fear and hate

Some identify too much with an unwanted pregnancy - if that woman doesn't want a child, that means mommy didn't want me.

Others resent women having sex with men who aren't them.

Yet others resent motherhood and think others should suffer as they do.

Some see those pregnancies as babies that could be sold for profit ("Christian" homes for unwed mothers make major coin on private adoptions, with fees starting at $10K and up).

None of them see a woman or particularly give a fuck about embryos, zygotes or fetuses.

[Ilsa]

13. Yeah, it seems like the really ardent anti-choicers might

be people with fertility problems who had a hard time finding non-minority babies (esp. boys) to adopt.

[REP]

20. I'm talking about the sellers

See The Child Catchers by Kathryn Joyce. Or just read what surrendering mothers and even adoptive parents have to say about the largest "Christian" adoption/unwed mother "service," Bethany:

http://www.adoptionagencyratings.com/bethany-christian-services.htm

[Ilsa]

27. I've read the reports on Bethany and others.

Yes, I realize you were talking about the baby sellers. But it also takes a demand market with little supply.

For awhile in the 1980s, I heard very little about the problems in finding babies until 1) women married later and had some fertility issues, 2) legal abortion took away the glut of newborns needing homes. Then the preppies got on board with the "evil" of abortion when they didn't have enough newborn babies to buy.

A knew a woman, would be in her 50s now, who was adopted. The day her parents took her home, the nuns came back for her at her new home, claiming there had been a mistake, and another couple was supposed to adopt her. Her new daddy whipped out his checkbook and wrote one for $5000. This would be between 1957 and 1960. Like buying half an average house in 1960. The nuns didn't bother them any more.

[Freddie]

32. The most fiercely "pro-life" person I know

Is a former co-worker with fertility problems and an adopted child. She simply can't fathom that there are times that a woman may not want to be pregnant. One day the topic came up (the rest of the office tried real hard to not bring it up) and she said of course a woman should be forced to bear the spawn of rape, it's "not the baby's fault" she was raped. Like the woman is nothing.

[Scootaloo]

4. it is ENTIRELY about punishing women for having sex

Seriously, every pro-lifer i have met and spoken to, frames sex as something that should have 'consequences." Basically they regard pregnancy as a punishment from god for licentious women, and abortion, birth control, prophylactics, et cetera, as an infringement on "god's will."

[HereSince1628]

6. and the bonus is it's great to be able to righteously carp about someone else's sins

thereby deflecting attention from their own.

[olddots]

5. evil ignorance

Needing attention at any cost .

[True Blue Door]

7. They call themselves "pro-life" as an Orwellian insult.

We don't have to agree to their terminology.

They're the Forced Birth movement.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. I usually refer to them as the "Pro-preggers".

[True Blue Door]

12. If they cared about pregnancy, they wouldn't oppose universal prenatal care.

What they care about is taking away the woman's freedom.

Conservatives in general use every possible method to enslave people, and forced pregnancy is a potent one.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. And, contraception and Sex Ed.

[Bettie]

23. Fetus Fetishist

They also generally are against all help to poor mothers...love the fetus, don't give two rat farts about a born child.

[True Blue Door]

24. They don't care about fetuses either, hence no prenatal care.

They just like the idea of women having no choice in the matter.

Taking away other people's freedom makes them feel powerful.

[Bettie]

26. Yep

And, for the most part, they are pro-death penalty, so it's a "throw them back and kill them when they're older" mentality.

They just want to punish women for having sex...because it's "Dirty".

The thing I see most often on an all-women (supposedly moms) board is "well, if she didn't want to be pregnant she shoulda kept her legs together".

It is maddening.

[True Blue Door]

31. They're bad people. All there is to it.

[hifiguy]

51. And isn't it interesting that for so many of these zealots

when a poor woman has the child rather than getting an abortion, the child isomehow transforms into an evil parasite sucking the lifeblood out of taxpayin' 'murkans that very moment.

As George Carlin put it those who are anti-choice love you if you're "pre-born" but if you're pre-school you can go fuck yourself because not one shit is given then.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

9. 1&2. N.T.

[handmade34]

10. "Pro-Life"???

"Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine nun:

"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is."




...that being said I believe it is about punishment and control

[jberryhill]

11. What do THEY think motivates them, or what actually motivates them?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Actually. Because, what they "think" motivates them makes no sense.

I'm speaking generally. If they really wanted to "stop" abortions, they'd be promoting contraception and Sexual Education. So, I discount what they "think" as contradictory with they actually accomplish.

[AverageJoe90]

15. I'd say it's some combination of the latter four, TBH.

But, more than anything else, I can't help but that think that, more than anything else, many of them would like to go back to their "idyllic" fantasy version of the Fifties, where were women and "them culluds" knew their place, children were seen and not heard(and were supposedly all much better behaved than today's kids, and were routinely "righteously" beaten/switched/etc. when they DID do wrong,, which *supposedly* automatically made them all behave again, and/or respect their parents, etc.), everybody despised "them fags" and there was no such thing as a teenager, etc.....(believe me, this fantasy, to varying extents at least, is so incredibly popular even with some more moderate conservatives, let alone the hardcore set, it would boggle your mind just *thinking* about it).....or worse, back to an era where women really didn't have a lot of rights: pre-revolutionary America, anyone?

It's all about control. And when you hear some idiot on the Internet, whether he's a "libertarian" dipshit or some wannabe radical saying, "hey, liberals are just as bad about racism/misogyny/etc. as right wingers", you can point out that liberals have rarely ever even supported these kinds of movements, and have never spearheaded them.

[eridani]

40. What I'd like back from the 50s is the top marginal tax rate of 90% and the 35% union membership

I like mentioning that to RWNJ culture warriors when they get nostalgic about the 50s

[AverageJoe90]

47. Which might not have been possible.....

Without the liberal movements of the '20s and '30s, and F.D.R.'s willingness to just get things done.

[bravenak]

16. Control.nt

[Boomerproud]

35. Yes. Control=Power.

That is the crux of it.

[rogerashton]

17. It's fun insulting these folks --

and some of them merit it. There are opportunists who only care about the political advantages their position gains and there are panicky patriarchalists who will resist anything that threatens male privilege. But the rank and file are decent folks who really want to save preborn babies. And if we indulge our anger and do not acknowledge that, we cannot point out the inconsistency of that motive with their other, anti-life positions. We don't persuade anyone by attributing bad motives to them.

[NaturalHigh]

28. This!

There is a common theme on the left that all pro-life people are misogynists who want to control women and hate sex. I don't doubt that's true of some, but a great majority truly care about the unborn children. My wife is one of them. She's as liberal as they come on most issues, but on abortion she's a strict Catholic.

Personally I try to avoid the issue and just point out that free birth control for anyone who wants it would drastically reduce abortions.

[rogerashton]

36. Also,

one thing that would make it easier for women to say no to abortion -- if they choose to! -- is a real social welfare system that would assure that women who make that choice, and their babies, do not face hunger or homelessness.

Sounds like your wife would concur in that.

Edit: corrected grammatical error.

[NaturalHigh]

46. Yes, my wife would definitely agree with that.

She is very supportive of a strong social welfare system. As I said, she's a liberal on just about everything except abortion.

[Dont call me Shirley]

19. They do it because they do not want to admit to themselves that they are unwanted children,

deeply, profoundly wounded unwanted children.

[FLPanhandle]

21. Same thing that motivates PETA or religious fundamentalists.

They have determined that their moral code should be forced onto others.

If others have a different view of morality then those people need to be "educated" and/or forced to "behave".

It's all about "my view of morality is correct, and you need to learn why".

[longship]

22. Women's vaginas bleed and make them impure.

Bad women. Bad. Bad!!! Must suppress this impurity, a curse from god himself. And anything that springs from that bloody vagina is equally impure and sinful.

(Many religions in a sentence. Or in a burka, as they wish. And many do.)

Yup! nevertheless the real problem behind it all.

That's why rape is often blamed on the woman, and in many cultures is presumed to be so.

Just listen to lunatics like Phyllis Schlafly. Or any of the other religion kooks in the GOP (nearly all of the GOP).

It all stems from Eve, one would surmise. It's the woman's fault. Always the woman's. Because god made her bleed.

Fuck all this shit.

[Skittles]

25. misogyny

[Smarmie Doofus]

29. Different people oppose legalized abortion for different reasons.

n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

30. I think there are a lot of different motivations, but I think most are sincerely about the unborn

[joeglow3]

33. Thanks for the common sense

This is one issue I usually avoid because both sides ignore the motivations of the other because they refuse to see others perspective.

Oppose abortion? You hate women and want to control women.

Support abortion? You don't mind killing babies and just want to fuck everyone without consequences.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. They may be sincere in their beliefs but trying to impose those beliefs on others by law

is just plain wrong however "sincere".

[joeglow3]

41. What if they genuinely believe it is murder?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. Is it? Because they genuinely "believe it" doesn't make it so.

Any more than genuinely believing that witches should be burned or genuinely believing that beating children is good for them.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

67. The question asked was "What motivates the Pro-Life Movement?"

Not whether or not their humanizing of a blob of cells is correct or should be the basis for public policy.

[smokey nj]

62. If they believe abortion is murder, they shouldn't have one. They don't get to impose their world

view on me. They aren't "pro-life," they're anti-choice.

[joeglow3]

73. So, you don't think you have a right to oppose any murder but one you could commit

[smokey nj]

74. Abortion isn't murder, it's a medical procedure.

[joeglow3]

75. And like I said, THIS is why I usually avoid discussing this issue

People not only think the ONLY perspective is their own, they accuse the other side of horrible intentions based on THEIR view.

[smokey nj]

77. That world view is horrible when they try to impose it

on others. They are entitled to live their own lives based on that world view, they are NOT entitled to force it in me.

[joeglow3]

78. So again, do you only oppose murder when it would be you committing it?

[smokey nj]

80. Abortion isn't murder, it's a medical procedure.

[joeglow3]

82. And like I said, THIS is why I usually avoid discussing this issue

People not only think the ONLY perspective is their own, they accuse the other side of horrible intentions based on THEIR view.

[smokey nj]

85. I'm not trying to impose my view on anybody. I'm

not fighting to pass legislation that forces anyone to do anything they don't want to do.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

64. I think there is a difference between someone who sees a very early pregnancy as Maggie Simpson

and someone who wants to win a breeding contest against racial minorities.

[DesMoinesDem]

53. +1

[SomethingFishy]

57. Really? Because once they are out of the womb it seems that the

"Pro-Lifers" are all pro-"go fuck yourself".

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

65. Have you been around many pregnant women?

Three of my friends are pregnant right now, and from the moment they shared the news they were calling it a baby or some playful variation there of. What kind of asshole would I be to tell them it's just a bunch of goo and to call me in seven or eight months?

The difference between "baby" and "accident" is one of personal perception as shaped by personal conditions. One who believes that human reproduction is miraculous is naturally going to be of the opinion they're all babies. I don't think that is inherently a malicious belief.

[smokey nj]

69. That world view becomes malicious when it is forced on others.

Followers of the anti-choice movement don't want me, or any other woman, to be able to make that decision for ourselves and that world view puts our lives in jeopardy.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

70. Is that what we're talking about here?

The question posed was one of motivations, a similar question could be asked about the motivations of any group. Why someone believes something and how or whether they act upon it in some way are different things.

[smokey nj]

72. They are acting upon it.

You're clueless if you think otherwise.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

76. Indeed many are, but that isn't the issue at hand.

Once someone resorts to violence or intimidation how they arrived at their beliefs is sort of irrelevant.

The question asked was "What motivates the Pro-Life Movement?", I don't believe it is some reprehensible misogynistic ideology in most instances, I really think it's about what they perceive to be babies.

[smokey nj]

79. What motivates them means nothing to me when they

make laws that impact MY life.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

81. Then why even click the link?

When the subject is very clearly a discussion of motivations.

[smokey nj]

83. Who died and named you thread monitor?

If you don't like my responses, ignore me but don't tell me I can't respond.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

88. Huh? I didn't say you couldn't respond, I'm just not sure why you did.

Seeing as you made it awfully clear you aren't actually interested in the subject at hand.

[smokey nj]

90. I'm going to respond when someone defends a world

view that puts my life in jeopardy.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

91. You're clearly having a conversation with someone else, don't let me interrupt.

[smokey nj]

92. You clearly don't get it.

You don't get that their motives are irrelevant when their ultimate goal is to over-turn Roe vs. Wade. Go wallow in your cluelessness, I'm done with you.

[Recursion]

37. Lots of stuff. Motivation is a tricky (and usually pointless) question.

"What is the result of their actions?" is much more important than "why are they doing them?", IMO...

[PM Martin]

38. To force their bronze age moral code upon a free and enlightened society.

-Punishing Naughty Ladies Who Don't Want Children but Enjoy Sex
-Protecting Patriarchy

[Aerows]

39. Protecting Patriarchy

pure and simple.

[eridani]

42. Probably a little of eaxh, though I suspect punishing women for sex leads.

I think that existential panic should be added to the list. Plenty of people suspect (sometimes correctly) that their parents wish they hadn't been born. This is probably why abortion is the only social issue on which there aren't huge generational didfferences.

[Douglas Carpenter]

43. different people in that movement are motivated by different reasons

No doubt some want to punish naughty women. No doubt some are motivated by other extremely sexist and chauvinistic reasons. But many people do believe that a fetus is a real human life. Okay, if we are talking about simply a fertilized egg or early stage embryo- that is a bit far fetched. But is it too far out to imagine that there are some sincere people who might consider a much more developed fetus to be a baby? Most people who are pro choice would consider a fully developed and healthy 35 weeker to be a baby, wouldn't they? So there is a question then as to at what point are we recognizing the fetus as a baby? Roe-Wade indirectly does at 24 weeks. Is it impossible to imagine that some sincere people may recognized it earlier? I do after all know some "pro-life" Democrats who support President Obama and vote Democratic. Just as I am pro-Palestinian but vote Democratic in spite of the Democratic Party being anti-Palestinian. Sometimes people still have to go with what they are in most agreement with - not 100% agreement with. I'm sure there are many people especially from ethnic minority communities whose views are essentially pro-life and anti-abortion who still vote for the Democratic Party.

[Samantha]

44. Fear of the older white rich shadow government players

that if American women are not forced to start popping out babies, the caucasian will become a minority in this Country. As we all know, minorities cannot command the same control as a majority. So it is a truly demented approach to saving power and control this group now has. Just ask Pat Buchanan if you don't believe me.

Sam

[hifiguy]

49. Puritanism and fear of "uncontrolled" female sexuality

accounts for the bulk of it, I would opine.

[ScreamingMeemie]

50. Smug judgment.

[Prophet 451]

54. I think it varies

I think some people genuinely believe that zefs are babies and pro-choicers know that and choose to murder them. Others really do believe they're protecting women and/or following Biblical law (the Falwell interpretation). But I think that the majority want to punish women who have (or even enjoy!) sex and I think that's an element in many of the others as well.

[DesMoinesDem]

55. I bet there has been a similar poll at FR about the Pro-Choice Movement

at the top response there would be pro-choice people love killing babies. It's no different than the top answer here. People there, just like people here, like to demonize people that think differently than they do. It's a lot easier than critical thinking.

[LeftishBrit]

56. There are several types of 'pro-lifer'

There are the genuine consistent pro-lifers, who are against abortion, the death penalty, all war, poverty, and often apply their pro-life views to animals as well as humans and are vegetarians. Not so many, but they exist

Then there are the political pro-lifers, who tend to come in two forms.

One group is the social conservatives, who as one of your options suggests, are against naughty ladies having sex without children, and often have strong views about keeping to strict gender roles. If people speak in the same sentence about opposing 'abortion and homosexuality', then one can be pretty sure that they are not so much pro-life, as preoccupied with the enforcement of 'traditional values', i.e. strict gender roles. Many such people are economically right-wing as well - and it needs to be noted that although reproductive rights are often presented as just a social issue, they also have profound economic implications, especially for women, but also to some extent men. People deprived of reproductive choice are deprived of control of their destiny, and often trapped in poverty: as the old saying goes, 'the rich get richer and the poor get children'.

Another group, which sometimes overlaps with the previous one, is the ultra-nationalists, who want their own ethnic or national group to expand at the expense of others. An extreme example of this type of political pro-lifer was Ceaucescu, whose desire for Romanians to increase their population led to bans on contraception and abortion. Just like the religious right-wingers, this atheist but ultra-nationalist pro-lifer showed no concern for the children once born, and caused a horrifying epidemic of physical and psychological deprivation among children, who were too often consigned to very substandard orphanages.

[Turbineguy]

58. Death

They need to breed soldiers for Armageddon.

[mmonk]

60. A delusion they are more moral than others

and they must win politically no matter the method.

[smokey nj]

61. I wish you'd used anti-choice rather than pro-life because their life "pro-ness" ends once it exits

the birth canal.

[IVoteDFL]

63. different answers for different groups of the movement

People like my grandparents truly believed the unborn needed saving. I think there are a fair amount of religious types out there like my dear grandparents. There is definitely another group more concerned with taking away women's rights, keeping the patriarchy alive, and punishing women.

[TBF]

66. It's about control -

always has been.

[liberal_at_heart]

68. There's a couple of choices that overlap there.

I would say that they are trying to protect their patriarchy by means of taking away women's rights and punishing women who have sex but don't want children.

[kydo]

71. power

[MADem]

84. OTHER.

The horrible, sinking, unrelenting and inescapable terror that, if choice had been available to THEIR mothers, that they might have availed themselves of that option.

[mainstreetonce]

86. Other

They need to get the wingnuts to the voting places.

[Beausoir]

87. Some of us believe that abortion ends a life.

I am pro-choice.....I have adopted...and I think abortion is snuffing out a life.

Before you chime in with an attack post....check out my posting history.

[liberal_at_heart]

89. Not all women or girls(I was a 16 year old girl when I had an abortion) are

strong enough emotionally to go through the pregnancy and adoption process.

[pansypoo53219]

93. believe in a perfect world.

[LostOne4Ever]

94. Its not just one thing, its many

[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','comic sans MS',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Some of it has to do with control, some of it with punishing women for having sex, but another part of it is enforcing patriarchy, and yet another religious fundamentalism.

Let us not forget that the "pro-life" movement is not only against a woman's right to choose, but also against anyone's right to die with dignity. They are the main people who fight against euthansia and PAS and defeat right to die bills.[/font]

[The2ndWheel]

95. Well we're dealing with morals here, so it'll be different for different people

Those morals of course being particular to the person, time, and place. That's why it's so wonderfully contentious.