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Logical

(22,457 posts)
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 09:06 PM Dec 2014

WOW.....Native American reservations now free to legalize marijuana

For decades, Native American reservations have been havens for the gambling industry in states with anti-casino legislatures. Can we count Big Pot in too?

The Justice Department said Thursday it will no longer prosecute federal laws regulating the growing or selling of marijuana on reservations, even when state law bans the drug.

Timothy Purdon, the U.S. attorney for North Dakota and the chairman of the attorney general’s subcommittee on Native American issues, explained to the Los Angeles Times that federal prosecutors will not enforce federal pot laws as long as reservations meet the same guidelines as states that have opted for legalization. He also said the federal government will continue to support any marijuana bans passed by tribal councils, even when the state allows recreational use.

In other words: The government will let tribal governments decide what to do about pot.

More at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/12/native-american-reservations-now-free-to-legalize-marijuana/
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
WOW.....Native American reservations now free to legalize marijuana (Original Post) Logical Dec 2014 OP
I have two Indian Reservations within an hour drive Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #1
15 minutes for me marle35 Dec 2014 #4
I would bet most of them will legalize Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #6
Good. Warren DeMontague Dec 2014 #2
I knew you'd like this.. nice of the DOJ.. doncha think? Cha Dec 2014 #27
I think it's a very sensible move, and it recognizes several realities. Warren DeMontague Dec 2014 #37
I know.. "nice" was me trying to be funny. I'm so glad Pot is moving forward to be legal.. like Cha Dec 2014 #39
Right On. Warren DeMontague Dec 2014 #40
in wi state goons will continue to attack dembotoz Dec 2014 #3
I'm reading this as allowing tribes to choose to go with the existing states laws or enforce their Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #5
If the article in the OP is not explicit enough for you this should be... Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #7
Seems that it's not really clear.. Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #8
Yes, the guidelines of states that have legalized Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #9
What I am reading is a tribe in colorado can follow colorado's law. Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #11
Where are you reading that? Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #12
Tribes don't have a criminal code independent of the state in which they reside.. Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #16
Maybe there will be a legal battle, who knows Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #20
No the state will arrest them (where illegal) and send them to state prison Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #22
Well you better call the Washington Post and tell them they are wrong Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #26
lulz...nt Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #28
I think you are mistaken. States have very limited criminal jurisdiction on Indian land. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2014 #31
Heya grumpy! Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #42
LOL, it is clear...... Logical Dec 2014 #10
Public Law 280 Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #13
Have you always struggled admitting you are wrong? Or just here? nt Logical Dec 2014 #18
Are tribes or reservation lands exempt from the criminal laws in which they are located? Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #30
So the 405 news stories about this being a big deal are all wrong? nt Logical Dec 2014 #32
Here's one of the 400 for ya, that thought it through..., Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #33
I bet you in a year some of them are selling weed! Even in a state where it is not legal! Take.... Logical Dec 2014 #34
Oklahoma AKA "Native America" Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #35
More for ya Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #36
Actually, it sounds like that is the case. Warren DeMontague Dec 2014 #38
agreed..nt Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #41
Are Indian Casinos... H. Cromwell Dec 2014 #14
Yes, as long as the casino is located on a reservation Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #15
And the consumer was of legal drinking age as determined by the local jurisdiction and that sale of Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #17
According to media reports so far it does not have to be legal in the state Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #19
Spend ten minutes reading about tribal law vs. state law Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #21
I don't trust the legal analysis of anyone who learned tribal law in 10 minutes Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #23
Best answer. The tribes are free to make their morningfog Dec 2014 #29
A brief guideline to tribal jurisdiction: Nevernose Dec 2014 #24
thank you, Justice Department! Cha Dec 2014 #25

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
1. I have two Indian Reservations within an hour drive
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 09:21 PM
Dec 2014

I suddenly have a new interest in going to the casino.

marle35

(172 posts)
4. 15 minutes for me
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 09:29 PM
Dec 2014

Will depend on what tribes decide, obviously. Wonder what the chances of that happening is, and if some will face pressure from state governments not to legalize?

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
6. I would bet most of them will legalize
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 09:49 PM
Dec 2014

Native American culture views all plant life as sacred, I can't imagine that any tribe would enforce laws against a plant on its own members. There will probably some tribes that choose not to sell it to people outside the tribe, but considering the revenue it would bring in I would bet most tribes would want to legalize for all. I know that if I were on a tribal council I would be pushing hard to start a growing operation as soon as humanly possible.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
37. I think it's a very sensible move, and it recognizes several realities.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 03:39 AM
Dec 2014

One being the way the winds clearly are blowing- that the clock is ticking on marijuana prohibition... and two being, I suspect that it would be awfully hard from a legal standpoint to justify the rights of tribal authorities to defy state laws legalizing cannabis, if they didn't consistently argue for tribal autonomy in both directions.

On a larger note, I'm not sure if doing the sensible, tenable thing especially in regards to a decades-old failed and stupid policy-- qualifies in my mind as "nice", but I certainly recognize that the performance of the DOJ in Obama's 2nd Term around this issue could have been a lot worse and counter-productive than it has been. A lot worse. They've accommodated a reality; that pot is moving towards legal and regulated status in at least part of this nation- which I'm sure a lot of hard-line career government drug warriors resisted hand and foot.

So yes, I enthusiastically support this move. 'Course there are a lot of reflexive Obama-bashers on this board, I'm not one of them. I think History will judge the guy pretty well overall.

Cha

(297,192 posts)
39. I know.. "nice" was me trying to be funny. I'm so glad Pot is moving forward to be legal.. like
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 03:56 AM
Dec 2014

Morgan Freeman so famously said..



And, I know you're not "one of them" and I thank you for that.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
5. I'm reading this as allowing tribes to choose to go with the existing states laws or enforce their
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 09:31 PM
Dec 2014

own stricter laws. There is nothing here to indicate that tribes can choose to have looser laws that the local laws.

Its not really a wow.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
7. If the article in the OP is not explicit enough for you this should be...
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 09:56 PM
Dec 2014
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/12/12/what-the-decision-allowing-tribes-to-legalize-marijuana-on-reservations-means

The guidance would allow American Indian tribes to grow and sell marijuana on tribal lands even in states where the drug is illegal, which could create pockets of legal marijuana across the country.


It really does look like this will effectively legalize marijuana on any reservation that chooses to legalize.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
8. Seems that it's not really clear..
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:02 PM
Dec 2014
Timothy Purdon, the U.S. attorney for North Dakota and the chairman of the attorney general’s subcommittee on Native American issues, explained to the Los Angeles Times that federal prosecutors will not enforce federal pot laws as long as reservations meet the same guidelines as states that have opted for legalization.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
9. Yes, the guidelines of states that have legalized
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:08 PM
Dec 2014

That means they have to follow the same sorts of guidelines as in states like Colorado and Washington where it is legal. The sentence you highlighted does not say they have to follow the guidelines of states where it is illegal, they only have to follow the guidelines of states where it is legal. In other words they can't sell to minors and they will have limits on how much people can buy, but it is still legal for adults.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
11. What I am reading is a tribe in colorado can follow colorado's law.
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:19 PM
Dec 2014

But a tribe in new york cannot suddenly decide to adopt colorado law.

But a tribe in colorado can choose to enforce prohibitions not enforced in the state.

Really this is only getting reservations in line with their own state and does not allow the tribes to legalize anything. It's already legal.

Another example is a tribe in california cannot start selling marijuana unless it's medical marijuana.

not so wow

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
12. Where are you reading that?
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:29 PM
Dec 2014

It certainly does not say that in the paragraph you posted earlier. The article posted in the OP is quite clear, and the excerpt from the article I posted is even more explicit, this will likely create pockets of legalization across the country. There is nowhere in the article that says this is limited to Colorado and Washington, if you want to insist it is limited to those states then provide a link.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
16. Tribes don't have a criminal code independent of the state in which they reside..
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:37 PM
Dec 2014

They do have different tax codes.

If California’s regulatory laws prohibited gambling on a criminal basis, then it is likely Public Law 280 would have given the State of California the authority to enforce them on tribal lands. However, if as the Cabazon Band argued, California’s laws on gambling were civil regulatory laws, then the tribal lands would not in fact fall under the lawful jurisdiction of the state.

The Supreme Court held, as the Cabazon band argued, that because California State law did not prohibit gambling as a criminal act – and in fact encouraged it via the state lottery – they must be deemed regulatory in nature. As such, the authority to regulate gaming activities on tribal lands was found to fall outside those powers granted by the Public Law 280.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Cabazon_Band_of_Mission_Indians

It's clear the local state criminal laws supersede any tribal authority.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
20. Maybe there will be a legal battle, who knows
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:46 PM
Dec 2014

As it stands now however the federal government will not be enforcing marijuana laws on Indian reservations any more. It is possible states might try to undermine tribal sovereignty but they will have to fight that battle in court.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
26. Well you better call the Washington Post and tell them they are wrong
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:55 PM
Dec 2014

I am sure your expertise in tribal sovereignty laws will impress them.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
31. I think you are mistaken. States have very limited criminal jurisdiction on Indian land.
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 11:57 PM
Dec 2014

It is usually either federal or tribal jurisdiction, depending, incredibly enough, on the race of the people involved:

http://www.tribal-institute.org/lists/jurisdiction.htm

It looks like the state only have jurisdiction over some crimes on the reservation when all the parties involved ARE NOT Indians.

I follow this stuff closely. I'm reading this as the federal government saying its okay to grow pot on Indian land if the tribe allows it. They will be left alone if they follow the DOJ guide lines for the legal marijuana states--no kids, no violence, no trafficking to outside areas, etc. What the state law of the state they are in is doesn't matter.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
42. Heya grumpy!
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 04:42 PM
Dec 2014

The State of California contended that the Bands’ high-stakes bingo and poker games violated state law and requested that the Court recognize its statute governing the operation of bingo games. Riverside County additionally sought legal recognition of its ordinances regulating bingo play and prohibiting the operation of poker and other card games. California argued that under Public Law 280 (1953) Congress had granted six states – Alaska, California, Minnesota, Nebraska, Oregon, and Wisconsin – criminal jurisdiction over Native American tribal lands within the state’s borders.If California’s regulatory laws prohibited gambling on a criminal basis, then it is likely Public Law 280 would have given the State of California the authority to enforce them on tribal lands. However, if as the Cabazon Band argued, California’s laws on gambling were civil regulatory laws, then the tribal lands would not in fact fall under the lawful jurisdiction of the state.

The Supreme Court held, as the Cabazon band argued, that because California State law did not prohibit gambling as a criminal act – and in fact encouraged it via the state lottery – they must be deemed regulatory in nature. As such, the authority to regulate gaming activities on tribal lands was found to fall outside those powers granted by the Public Law 280.

The Cabazon decision of 1987 had lasting implications regarding the sovereignty of Native American tribes in the United States. The ruling established a broader definition of tribal sovereignty and set that precedent that if the few states that with some lawful jurisdiction over tribal lands could not impose state regulations on reservation gaming, and then no state could have such a right. Indian gaming could thus only be called into question in states where gambling was deemed criminal by state law.

Assuming it hasn't changed since this supreme court decision would give California jurisdiction cause California treats mj criminally.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
10. LOL, it is clear......
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:09 PM
Dec 2014
Timothy Purdon, the U.S. attorney for North Dakota and the chairman of the attorney general’s subcommittee on Native American issues, explained to the Los Angeles Times that federal prosecutors will not enforce federal pot laws as long as reservations meet the same guidelines as states that have opted for legalization. He also said the federal government will continue to support any marijuana bans passed by tribal councils, even when the state allows recreational use.


If you think the Feds saying they will not interfere with the Native Americans selling pot then you are totally uninformed about the previous 50 years.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
13. Public Law 280
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:29 PM
Dec 2014
Under the Act, states, local sheriffs and state law enforcement agencies take tribal members to state courts for prosecution in cases arising from criminal matters within reservation boundaries.


There is nothing in practice that allows any tribal lands to have a criminal code that is separate from the state in which they reside. The only exceptions relate to taxes.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
30. Are tribes or reservation lands exempt from the criminal laws in which they are located?
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 11:55 PM
Dec 2014

Its a pretty basic question and the answer is no.



Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
33. Here's one of the 400 for ya, that thought it through...,
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 12:10 AM
Dec 2014

There's another catch.

The Mohegan and Mashantucket tribes entered into agreements with the state this year certifying tribal police and making them responsible for enforcing state laws within their territories, said Mike Lawlor, under secretary for Criminal Justice Policy and Planning in the state Office of Policy and Management.

Before the agreement was signed, tribal officers could only arrest tribal members. Additionally, the tribes were paying to have state police present on their property to enforce Connecticut laws, Lawlor said.

"So, the laws that govern Connecticut, the criminal laws, govern the tribal reservation and the tribal police departments are obligated to enforce those laws, and that would certainly include marijuana," Lawlor said.

If a tribe wanted to grow marijuana, the tribe could terminate its agreement with the state, Lawlor said.

The Justice Department's position raises concerns, said Cromwell police Chief Anthony Salvatore, legislative chairman for the Connecticut Police Chiefs Association.

"The Connecticut Police Chiefs Association is concerned regarding this latest development and sees the potential of a number of issues that need to be clarified first," Salvatore said.

For example, it's unclear what role tribal officers would have if a tribe were to pursue marijuana as a business opportunity, Salvatore said. Secondly, how would this affect Connecticut's medical marijuana dispensaries and producers, he said. And many other concerns stem from there, including how state police might uphold laws on tribal lands, Salvatore said.

http://www.courant.com/health/hc-casino-mairjuana-tribes-announcement-20141211-story.html

I'm for this as much as the next guy but if you think a tribe in oklahoma is gonna start selling weed and the oklahoma state police are going to sit around and allow it your wrong.

The only thing mentioned is the feds will not prosecute, which led to a lot of hyperbolic headlines.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
34. I bet you in a year some of them are selling weed! Even in a state where it is not legal! Take....
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 12:12 AM
Dec 2014

that bet?

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
35. Oklahoma AKA "Native America"
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 12:24 AM
Dec 2014

I'll place money there will be no weed officially sold by tribes in Oklahoma in the next year. It's an easy bet.

California has the highest native population followed by Oklahoma, Arizona, New Mexico and Washington.

In california they'll be selling "medical marijuana", In AZ they will be selling "medical marijuana". Washington they will be selling state tax-less legal weed. Not sure about New Mexico and in Oklahoma they will be going to jail in state prisons for selling the deamon bud.

New York tribes will not be selling weed unless something changes with NY law. Even their cigarette sales are regulated by the state.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
36. More for ya
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 12:31 AM
Dec 2014

The U.S. Justice Department is giving Native American tribes authority to legalize marijuana on their reservations, telling federal prosecutors the issue needs to be handled on a "government-to-government basis."

The shift is not expected to immediately change how law enforcement in Riverside County deals with marijuana on any of the 12 reservations here. And it's too early to know if local tribes will take the opportunity to legalize the drug on their reservations.

"We don't enforce federal law, we enforce state law, so any change in the federal law isn't going to affect us necessarily," said Capt. Ray Wood, commander of the Riverside County Sheriff's Department's Hemet Station and head of the department's Tribal Liaison Unit.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/12/doj-tribes-marijuana/20297075/

 

H. Cromwell

(151 posts)
14. Are Indian Casinos...
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:30 PM
Dec 2014

considered a part of the "reservation"?
The refreshment girls could offer drinks and joints?

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
17. And the consumer was of legal drinking age as determined by the local jurisdiction and that sale of
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:40 PM
Dec 2014

marijuana was legal in that state.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
24. A brief guideline to tribal jurisdiction:
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:50 PM
Dec 2014

Because I was confused and convinced by several earlier arguments in the thread, I thought I'd post this to further muddy the waters

http://www.tribal-institute.org/lists/jurisdiction.htm

This would be a fascinating scholarly legal review article to read (Honey? Are you paying attention to this? This is far more interesting than polygamy!)

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