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kpete

(71,991 posts)
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 04:28 PM Dec 2014

TAIBBI: Democrats Aren't A Real Party-They're A Marketing Phenomenon

Dodd-Frank Budget Fight Proves Democrats Are a Bunch of Stuffed Suits


.......

Is killing the Citigroup provision really worth the trouble? Is it a "Hill to die on"? Maybe not in itself. But the key here is that a victory on the swaps issue will provide the Beltway hacks with a playbook for killing the rest of the few meaningful things in Dodd-Frank, probably beginning with the similar Volcker Rule, designed to prevent other types of gambling by federally-insured banks. Once they cave on the swaps issue, it won't be long before the whole bill vanishes, and we can go all the way back to our pre-2008 regulatory Nirvana.

If the Democrats actually stood for anything other than sounding as progressive as possible without offending their financial backers, then they would do what Republicans always do in these situations: force a shutdown to save their legislation. How many times did Republicans hold the budget hostage to rescue the Bush tax cuts?

But the Democrats won't do that here, because they're not a real party. They're a marketing phenomenon, a big chunk of oligarchical Blob cleverly sold to voters as the more reasonable and less nakedly corrupt wing of a two-headed political establishment.

So they'll punt on this issue in the name of "maturity" or "bipartisanship," Wall Street will get a nice win, and Hillary Clinton or whoever else is being set up as the Blob candidate on the Democratic side will receive an avalanche of Financial Services donations to stave off Warren (who will begin appearing in the press as an unhinged combination of Lev Trotsky and Spartacus). A neat little piece of business all around. I don't know whether to applaud or throw up.

....

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/dodd-frank-budget-fight-proves-democrats-are-a-bunch-of-stuffed-suits-20141213#ixzz3LoNo3bfV
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193 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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TAIBBI: Democrats Aren't A Real Party-They're A Marketing Phenomenon (Original Post) kpete Dec 2014 OP
He certainly has a point. n/t djean111 Dec 2014 #1
He Is Right billhicks76 Dec 2014 #77
No, there is always Andrew Cuomo TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #164
And THAT is why we want the FDR party back!! RiverLover Dec 2014 #2
BRAVO!!! hifiguy Dec 2014 #28
LOL Thanks Hifiguy!! RiverLover Dec 2014 #56
+1000000 n/t whathehell Dec 2014 #61
Yep, we need more leaders to "Welcome their Hatred" again when talking about the 1%... cascadiance Dec 2014 #78
There ya go..... Enthusiast Dec 2014 #126
So much REASON there! He really was smart. He knew that a sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #130
He could have been a four-term president AwakeAtLast Dec 2014 #157
No, the 22nd wasn't ratified until 1951. Ikonoklast Dec 2014 #172
Bingo! 99Forever Dec 2014 #3
I've been thinking for quite a while there's something delusional about enough Dec 2014 #4
Exactly... sendero Dec 2014 #192
. Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2014 #5
2016 is going to be a riot. It's like we 're living in a movie....sad really. sgtbenobo Dec 2014 #6
It Crawls, It Creeps, It Eats you Alive! adirondacker Dec 2014 #152
Living in a B Movie. you might say... malthaussen Dec 2014 #153
YES! DeSwiss Dec 2014 #165
Matt Taibbi is not a real progressive - he's a rhetorical phenomenon. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #7
Ahhh yes... 99Forever Dec 2014 #10
He just did that. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #12
Oh my! 99Forever Dec 2014 #18
And once again the Ouroboros gulps. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #20
You are certainly a legend... 99Forever Dec 2014 #25
I am certainly a liberal. Can't speak for anyone else present. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #26
Call yourself whatever you please. 99Forever Dec 2014 #30
Ditto. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #31
The Peewee Herman Gambit twice in the same subthread. 99Forever Dec 2014 #35
You anticipate criticism of yourself by spewing it first. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #37
Been enlightening chatting with you. 99Forever Dec 2014 #40
I'll do more than that. I'll contribute to progress in this country. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #41
Couldn't leave it without a parting personal insult, could you? 99Forever Dec 2014 #43
+1 You are not alone. We get stronger, more vocal and more numerous all the time. merrily Dec 2014 #98
The Dem Party leaders are the ones who are full of divisive bullshit. cui bono Dec 2014 #112
He's supposed to communicate an accurate picture of events. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #113
Have you read anything else by him other than this piece? n/t cui bono Dec 2014 #183
thank you for the laugh! Demeter Dec 2014 #167
Reporting on the actions of the compromised and the corrupt is neither prophecy or self fulfilling TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #169
Amazing isn't it.. truebrit71 Dec 2014 #13
Indeed. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #16
Those who work to place the 99% into a condition of slavery Zorra Dec 2014 #186
That makes no sense MFrohike Dec 2014 #14
If it's not moving in a good direction, then DO SOMETHING to move it! True Blue Door Dec 2014 #22
You mean like publish articles in major magazines? Nevernose Dec 2014 #32
How about if he bothered to acknowledge the hard work and dedication True Blue Door Dec 2014 #34
he Is doing that: he is telling you noiretextatique Dec 2014 #45
Except it didn't, since we're the only ones standing up to Wall Street. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #52
I see where you are coming from true blue, RiverLover Dec 2014 #58
Would you feel motivated to be better True Blue Door Dec 2014 #60
It is weakened by the fake Democrats who said progressive things while running for office RiverLover Dec 2014 #67
We are weakened by both. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #69
LOL OK nt RiverLover Dec 2014 #73
So... Did Reagan sell out to Wall Street when he jailed many Savings and Loans banksters... cascadiance Dec 2014 #80
"some" democrats are standing up noiretextatique Dec 2014 #175
Do you do anything but complain about your lack of recognition? Marr Dec 2014 #94
Do you do anything but slander everyone who challenges your assumptions? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #95
You're the only one who's been flailing and lashing out on this thread like a wounded dinosaur. merrily Dec 2014 #103
Sorry, there's just no connection between your comments and reality at this point. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #104
I've read the entire thread and stand by my prior post. Keep flailing. merrily Dec 2014 #105
No one? Wrong. SunSeeker Dec 2014 #144
If you were flailing I did not notice. merrily Dec 2014 #147
Stop bullying your fellow DUers. SunSeeker Dec 2014 #182
This message was self-deleted by its author merrily Dec 2014 #185
The reality that Matt Taibbi is useless? SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #179
No, the reality that not every Dem is corrupt. SunSeeker Dec 2014 #181
Okay, so what it really comes down to is you just can't hear any criticism of your party. cui bono Dec 2014 #184
+1000 nt Mojorabbit Dec 2014 #84
Again, no sense MFrohike Dec 2014 #85
Or we could, you know, have moral compasses. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #86
3 for 3 MFrohike Dec 2014 #87
Because it tells you which way is North. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #88
That makes sense MFrohike Dec 2014 #89
Who are the people calling this out? Are they Republicans? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #91
What? MFrohike Dec 2014 #92
He doesn't give a fuck about the issues, just pushing a narrative. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #93
Um, what? MFrohike Dec 2014 #97
Thank you. Relevant facts enrich discussion immeasurably. merrily Dec 2014 #99
Wow. It took until #7 dogknob Dec 2014 #17
You live in your own little world. I'm opposed to Hillary Clinton. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #23
Questioning the sense of reality of those who say things you don't like... dogknob Dec 2014 #55
You assumed I supported Hillary Clinton. You were wrong. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #59
Really, I do wish I could somehow agree with you.... sgtbenobo Dec 2014 #38
If by "these clowns" you mean the Democratic Party in general as Taibbi does True Blue Door Dec 2014 #39
History and defamation really aren't that useful.... sgtbenobo Dec 2014 #42
People are what matter. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #48
People do matter. sgtbenobo Dec 2014 #66
If we want things to be better, we can't just do the same old shit. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #71
Re: "moving the party in the right direction" ArsSkeptica Dec 2014 #46
You think categorically defining a Party as wrong, evil, and corrupt True Blue Door Dec 2014 #50
Your apples to oranges comparison does nothing for me ArsSkeptica Dec 2014 #72
But he doesn't. That's my point. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #74
And you attack him...I see. zeemike Dec 2014 #123
There is no doubt that Kucinich is not corrupt, yes? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #124
The most principled liberals are not in charge. zeemike Dec 2014 #128
No one is in charge. Nor do we want there to be. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #129
Well that is just delusional. zeemike Dec 2014 #131
Do they "decide" such things? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #132
Well we don't have the money to effect the party. zeemike Dec 2014 #134
Do we offer our leaders examples to emulate? True Blue Door Dec 2014 #135
Why is it always our fault zeemike Dec 2014 #136
It's always our fault because we choose to take responsibility for the future. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #137
There is no choice between good cop and bad cop. zeemike Dec 2014 #142
This might be the first point on which we essentially agree. ArsSkeptica Dec 2014 #191
This is about the words, not the man. arcane1 Dec 2014 #53
The words are not correct. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #54
It is? bread_and_roses Dec 2014 #79
If you're just going to concede the Party to its ugliest elements True Blue Door Dec 2014 #81
Left close to 20 years ago bread_and_roses Dec 2014 #150
Opposition? WHAT OPPOSITION??? Odin2005 Dec 2014 #189
and just what is 'real'? DemandsRedPill Dec 2014 #68
Taibbi's message is "don't bother trying to change the Democratic Party." True Blue Door Dec 2014 #70
Exactly. SunSeeker Dec 2014 #145
LOL, I assume his comment made you think a little more than you wanted to. Nt Logical Dec 2014 #107
You mean, made me think a little more than YOU wanted me to. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #110
Nope, I said it right the first time and I can tell I hit a nerve. nt Logical Dec 2014 #114
If by "nerve" you mean Uncanny Valley. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #115
LOL, I don't think your little response of this post went as well as you were hoping.... Logical Dec 2014 #117
I think if you're going to make up your own alternate universe True Blue Door Dec 2014 #118
And you don't know you're getting an ass kicking, that is even funnier. nt Logical Dec 2014 #119
I'm glad you find me entertaining. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #120
I'm actually just trying to see how long you will keep responding. LOL. Nt Logical Dec 2014 #121
If you don't want me to respond, just say so. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #122
The population at that table numbers precisely one tkmorris Dec 2014 #140
Then accomplish something already. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #141
Taibbi did. Wrote two books, spent years investigating... SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #180
lmao cui bono Dec 2014 #111
And your objection to the article is what? rpannier Dec 2014 #116
Pffft! Enthusiast Dec 2014 #127
Considering this bill wasn't supported by the Democrats in the House, you'd have to wonder if . . Major Hogwash Dec 2014 #138
That's the most plausible interpretation. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #139
It sounds like you didn't read the excerpt in the OP TransitJohn Dec 2014 #149
LOL. TransitJohn Dec 2014 #148
you're just another fucking phony pitching word salads. I fart in your general direction KG Dec 2014 #154
+1 nashville_brook Dec 2014 #155
Stay classy. joshcryer Dec 2014 #174
Hehe... SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #178
ROFLMAO.. SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #177
Keep shooting the messenger. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #188
He's correct d_b Dec 2014 #8
*** TRUTH *** whatchamacallit Dec 2014 #9
The last few days revealed what so many no-show voters suspected about Democrats. pa28 Dec 2014 #11
it's still hard to convince the fan club of this for some reason Doctor_J Dec 2014 #57
The answer is in the title of your post: Nevernose Dec 2014 #96
True, but it was a lot more than suspicion. merrily Dec 2014 #101
Matt on point as usual.... truebrit71 Dec 2014 #15
The Beltway thinks raising money is more important than votes. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2014 #19
They sure seem to think money is more important than people. merrily Dec 2014 #102
+1 nt RiverLover Dec 2014 #160
welcome under the bus, Matt Doctor_J Dec 2014 #21
"I think of it as a single furiously-money-collecting/favor-churning oligarchical Beltway party" YEP polichick Dec 2014 #24
The institutional Democratic party at the national level hifiguy Dec 2014 #27
He has this one right still_one Dec 2014 #29
So true. SixString Dec 2014 #33
I'm leaning towards throwing up ybbor Dec 2014 #36
Yes. Demanding that banks handle federally insured money carefully and without taking JDPriestly Dec 2014 #44
K & R, Taibbi nails it, as always, it's two sides of the corporatocracy, democracy has died. nt mother earth Dec 2014 #47
It's getting to be a harder sell. raindaddy Dec 2014 #49
K & R !!! WillyT Dec 2014 #51
I'd throw up, Matt. DeSwiss Dec 2014 #62
plenty of salespeople reddread Dec 2014 #63
spot on DemandsRedPill Dec 2014 #64
LOGOS turbinetree Dec 2014 #65
What he said here, this is my fear--"Warren (who will begin appearing in the press as an unhinged RiverLover Dec 2014 #75
yes. sadly. "some folks" don't want to bbgrunt Dec 2014 #76
K&R liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #82
The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Own And Control The Politicians That Own And Control Us cantbeserious Dec 2014 #83
+1 Lip service does not equal daylight. merrily Dec 2014 #108
Geithner, former head of the NY Fed for Secretary of Treasury, reappointment of Gates for merrily Dec 2014 #109
K & R AzDar Dec 2014 #90
AutoRec for Taibbi... n/t cui bono Dec 2014 #100
K&R nt raouldukelives Dec 2014 #106
The Blog Candidate......... Enthusiast Dec 2014 #125
no wonder people didn't vote. redruddyred Dec 2014 #133
The majority of the people who can vote -- don't. DeSwiss Dec 2014 #146
That says that the people who vote don't really have a vote. merrily Dec 2014 #151
Who chose Barack Obama? You? DeSwiss Dec 2014 #162
I first heard of him in 2004, but that is beside the point. I am not disagreeing with Chomsky, even merrily Dec 2014 #163
We're here! DeSwiss Dec 2014 #166
I sure hope so, but I don't know. merrily Dec 2014 #168
And those idiots deserve exactly what they got coming to them Blue_Tires Dec 2014 #170
late response -- but... redruddyred Dec 2014 #193
sad but true K&R n/t Joe Shlabotnik Dec 2014 #143
Sadly true...\nt Mass Dec 2014 #156
k & r. Thanks for posting. nm rhett o rick Dec 2014 #158
K&R Because that's what corporations do. woo me with science Dec 2014 #159
We need butter, Dems are giving us margarine Hillary; "looks just like butter". The rich, whereisjustice Dec 2014 #161
Margarine? Shit, one can make due with margarine well. We are given sage, lavender, and tarragon. TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #171
I think it's cyanide. woo me with science Dec 2014 #176
Ha! Then it would at least be over. TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #190
there's a trope for that MisterP Dec 2014 #173
Capitalist "democracy" is ultimately an oxymoron. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #187

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
2. And THAT is why we want the FDR party back!!
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 04:34 PM
Dec 2014
FDR quotes~

“A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward.”

“The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the government.”

“True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.”

“We are trying to construct a more inclusive society. We are going to make a country in which no one is left out.”

“A nation that destroys its soils destroys itself. Forests are the lungs of our land, purifying the air and giving fresh strength to our people.”

“Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.”

“Prosperous farmers mean more employment, more prosperity for the workers and the business men of every industrial area in the whole country.”

“We continue to recognize the greater ability of some to earn more than others. But we do assert that the ambition of the individual to obtain for him a proper security is an ambition to be preferred to the appetite for great wealth and great power.”

“But while they prate of economic laws, men and women are starving. We must lay hold of the fact that economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings.”

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/f/franklin_d_roosevelt_2.html









 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
78. Yep, we need more leaders to "Welcome their Hatred" again when talking about the 1%...
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 07:24 PM
Dec 2014

... and speak truth to power like FDR did here instead of responding "How high?" when the oligarchs ask them to "jump".

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
130. So much REASON there! He really was smart. He knew that a
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:59 AM
Dec 2014

society without reasonable equality won't survive.

No waffling, no weasel words. He talked straight to the people and he acted on what he said.

Part of why he pushed so hard for the working class was to prevent the collapse of this society.

Without him and his programs, it would have.

Even today, his Social Programs are keeping millions of Americans from starving.

What a legacy that man left, FOR THE PEOPLE.

enough

(13,259 posts)
4. I've been thinking for quite a while there's something delusional about
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 04:39 PM
Dec 2014

"loyalty" to the Democratic Party, because there really isn't a party there to be loyal to.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
192. Exactly...
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 09:44 PM
Dec 2014

.... some folks are just a bit slow on the uptake.

The Citi rider is INDEFENSIBLE and anyone who would vote for it should be drummed out of the party.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
7. Matt Taibbi is not a real progressive - he's a rhetorical phenomenon.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:06 PM
Dec 2014

Appearing morally superior is a higher priority than moving the Party in a good direction. Self-fulfilling prophecies of doom and corruption are considered a feature rather than a bug.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
12. He just did that.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:16 PM
Dec 2014

And then you just did the same.

It's harder to embody a prescription than to pontificate it, isn't it?

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
20. And once again the Ouroboros gulps.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:30 PM
Dec 2014

The difference is that Matt Taibbi traffics in self-fulfilling prophecies of failure and I don't.

There are forces in the Democratic Party that resemble his criticism, but he just ignores or dismisses everyone who isn't.

It's more important to sound like he stands for something than to actually do so.

His criticism is hypocrisy.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
26. I am certainly a liberal. Can't speak for anyone else present.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:42 PM
Dec 2014

Or anyone else who writes divisive bullshit for their own amusement and enrichment.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
30. Call yourself whatever you please.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:45 PM
Dec 2014

Don't mean squat to me. I see what you do, that tells me more about your values than any label you attach to yourself.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
41. I'll do more than that. I'll contribute to progress in this country.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:02 PM
Dec 2014

Feel free to do the same some day.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
43. Couldn't leave it without a parting personal insult, could you?
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:09 PM
Dec 2014

That says tons about you and nothing about me.

A real class act.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
98. +1 You are not alone. We get stronger, more vocal and more numerous all the time.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:45 PM
Dec 2014

Makes them panic and lash out.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
112. The Dem Party leaders are the ones who are full of divisive bullshit.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:31 AM
Dec 2014

And they're the ones who are running the country. Taibbi is a journalist. He's doing exactly what he is supposed to do. That's a hell of a lot more than the Dem leaders are doing. Especially when the POTUS supports a current Republican budget.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
113. He's supposed to communicate an accurate picture of events.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:33 AM
Dec 2014

Instead he sells FUD narratives by the bushel. I am shocked, shocked that our GOTV efforts face such obstacles.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
167. thank you for the laugh!
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:31 PM
Dec 2014

hint to the funky blue door--never give a straight line to a humorist!

TheKentuckian

(25,026 posts)
169. Reporting on the actions of the compromised and the corrupt is neither prophecy or self fulfilling
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 03:18 PM
Dec 2014

This is a delusional rationalization, a wild eyed Tinkerbelle delusion that assumes the world would be right if only more people would clap harder.

Then the crazy lash out, the man has done an excellent job. What is he trying to pretending to stand for but really doesn't in this absurd narrative? I don't think it is public relations for the Democratic party as you seem to imply.

Ignore everyone that isn't, what is that case based on? How does he discuss corrective policy, alternatives, and who the bad guys are without talking about those who aren't part of the problem? The answer is of course that you are just spouting off at the mouth, saying ANYTHING to try to keep a nonsensical false (and substantially irrelevant, like the truth changes in any way) narrative going in the face of all observation and reasoning.

Then there is the problem of how much talking about the guys that get rolled all the time can anyone do? Especially, when you hint that you'd prefer it be done as let's say "constructively" as possible. Not even to mention the sad truth of the few numbers except by the most generous possible definitions of not resembling his criticism.

The charge of hypocrisy is strange to say the least. What corruption, abuse of power, socializing risk on private gains, and cannibalizing the economy for profit are you accusing this man of here? What ever it is, better bet it is a mote through an electron microscope and seen in the most uncharitable fashion imaginable considering the scope and wide dispersal of suffering caused between the two being compared.

I think most decent people with any concept of fair mindedness would be ashamed to even make such a charge in such a context.
It is, I suspect, like going on a tangent about getting a terrible offer on a watch from a Jewish pawn broker during a conversation about the Holocaust and then to find out the offer was comparable to other offers from all the pawn brokers in town.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
186. Those who work to place the 99% into a condition of slavery
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 09:56 AM
Dec 2014

to oligarchs have to make shit up, and use strawmen, smoke. and mirrors, because they have nothing that is real to use as an argument to convince the gullible to give up their rights and liberty.

Seriously. They can't very well say,

"Look, you stupid, filthy, ignorant peasants, you really need to give up all right to self-determination and willingly allow your superior-by-wealth 1% masters to enslave you, and control every aspect of your lives. So give up, filthy rabble, all your children is now belong to us".



MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
14. That makes no sense
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:18 PM
Dec 2014

I'm not sure how the party is moving in a good direction at present, unless good is defined as crumbs wrapped in noblesse oblige, tossing out trillions to prop up insolvent banks, and making noises about things but never quite getting around to doing anything about them. If that's a good direction, well, it's the ultimate win for style over substance.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
22. If it's not moving in a good direction, then DO SOMETHING to move it!
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:31 PM
Dec 2014

Taibbi obviously isn't by categorically condemning it.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
32. You mean like publish articles in major magazines?
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:46 PM
Dec 2014

Articles designed to draw attention, criticize those in power, and maybe inspire people to do something about it? Perhaps condemning it IS DOING SOMETHING to move it, perhaps in the best way that a professional magazine columnist possibly could.

Would it be better for you if it was more positive in tone? If there were some smilies and maybe a picture of a rainbow puppy at the end?

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
34. How about if he bothered to acknowledge the hard work and dedication
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:49 PM
Dec 2014

of the fucking MILLIONS of Democrats who work to improve the Party?

No, in his world, it's just a Party of corporatist sellouts, and the "heroes" are what? Trustafarians and coffee-house leftists who stay home on election days?

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
52. Except it didn't, since we're the only ones standing up to Wall Street.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:19 PM
Dec 2014

Taibbi defines us by the corrupt, which is what the corrupt want.

And which effectively makes him corrupt.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
58. I see where you are coming from true blue,
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:25 PM
Dec 2014

but I also disagree. I think its meant to WAKE US up to the republican-lite capitulating party we've become & help motive change.

Bring it!!!!!!!!


(also want to add that President Obama is NOT standing up ag WS, he's working with them.)

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
60. Would you feel motivated to be better
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:29 PM
Dec 2014

by someone who spends all their time demonizing you, looking for excuses to call you a bad person, saying everything you do is bad?

Some people would, but not most. Most people would just interpret it as a hostile person being a bastard.

The Democratic Party changes for the better when people within it take responsibility to do so, and work with other Democrats to see that it happens.

Demagoguery against the party simply weakens it. That's the lesson of both history and common sense.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
67. It is weakened by the fake Democrats who said progressive things while running for office
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:45 PM
Dec 2014

but then are just republicans with (D) behind their name once in office. Our wanting to change that is GOOD.

I'm tired of having democrat believes but no representation, other than the social things like gay rights & such. I want the party to stand up for People, not Citigroup or Halliburton.

We don't have a reason for existing if we don't represent people & labor & environment & small businesses & health & regulations for the greater good.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
80. So... Did Reagan sell out to Wall Street when he jailed many Savings and Loans banksters...
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 07:29 PM
Dec 2014

... and the Obama administration hasn't put ANY of those that arguably have lead us in to a deeper economic tailspin in to prison?

Who is standing up to Wall Street? HUH?

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
175. "some" democrats are standing up
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 06:40 PM
Dec 2014

and they are being steamrolled by "other" democrats who are laying down for wall street. unfortunately, the ones doing the steamrolling are stronger in numbers than the ones who are standing up. you do yourself no favor by refusing to see that, or the party.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
94. Do you do anything but complain about your lack of recognition?
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:08 PM
Dec 2014

Well, apart from slagging liberals as 'trustafarians', I mean?

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
95. Do you do anything but slander everyone who challenges your assumptions?
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:12 PM
Dec 2014

I made a point. And all you did was react like a wounded animal.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
103. You're the only one who's been flailing and lashing out on this thread like a wounded dinosaur.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:13 AM
Dec 2014

I get it. The sense of impending extinction must be really difficult to deal with, even for something as large and seemingly invincible as a dino.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
104. Sorry, there's just no connection between your comments and reality at this point.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:17 AM
Dec 2014

I can't respond to pure non sequiturs.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
105. I've read the entire thread and stand by my prior post. Keep flailing.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:19 AM
Dec 2014

Read a lot of your other posts, too. Haven't you noticed? No one seems to be buying what you've been trying to peddle.

SunSeeker

(51,552 posts)
144. No one? Wrong.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 03:16 AM
Dec 2014

There are plenty here who agree with True Blue Door, including me.

I also agree with True Blue Door on the futility of trying to have a conversation with someone who refuses to acknowledge reality.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
147. If you were flailing I did not notice.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 06:31 AM
Dec 2014

I agree about the futility of discussion with people out of reality as well. That's why my replies, if any, to certain people are brief and not an invitation to discuss a thing. Only a couple of days ago, he complained about my conversation ending replies to him. Guess he finally got the hint.

SunSeeker

(51,552 posts)
182. Stop bullying your fellow DUers.
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 01:22 AM
Dec 2014

The bullying here is ridiculous. Go on a right wing website if you want to bully people.

Response to SunSeeker (Reply #182)

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
179. The reality that Matt Taibbi is useless?
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 10:05 PM
Dec 2014

Yeah that is about as ignorant a statement as I have read in a long time. Taibbi has provided BOOKS worth of information on the crimes committed that led us to the 2008 collapse, if that is useless then Dick Cheney protected us from fucking terrorists.

You agree with TBD that Taibbi is useless? He is wrong in every proven sense of the word, and so are you.

For a guy who demands action he sure seems to be pissed off at someone who went out and did something.

SunSeeker

(51,552 posts)
181. No, the reality that not every Dem is corrupt.
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 01:19 AM
Dec 2014

The reality that the Democratic Party is not the same as the Republican Party...they are not even close.

.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
184. Okay, so what it really comes down to is you just can't hear any criticism of your party.
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 04:55 AM
Dec 2014

You subscribe to the PATS (politics as a team sport) method of participating in our democracy. You are the real threat to our country. The whole point of our system is that the people get to speak out against that with which they disagree. If the govt isn't doing right by the people and is working for the big corporations instead of us it is our DUTY to criticize it.

You don't want any criticism, so how are you going to change anything? By being a blind follower and an apologist one only enables the continuation of the behavior that is deserving of criticism. The more you let them get away with - and actually defend them doing - the more they will move to the right. The Dem Party is already center. We can't afford to let them keep moving right. Their rightward move is what allows the batshit crazy wing of the Republican Party to rise up and get elected. If the Dems would stand up for the people and actually govern as liberals the spectrum would not have shifted all the way to the extreme right and perhaps the Dems would actually be left of center. I can't possibly dream that they would really be left. But a little left of center would be a great improvement over the current batch of elected Dems, especially PBO.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
85. Again, no sense
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:11 PM
Dec 2014

If someone doesn't point out the wrong direction, then how would you know where to go? You'd effectively be saying, "I'm going over here and I don't know why!"

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
86. Or we could, you know, have moral compasses.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:15 PM
Dec 2014

Sorry, I'm not some media zombie who needs to be spoonfed.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
87. 3 for 3
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:26 PM
Dec 2014

I don't get how "having a moral compass" is going to help you analyze something, but maybe that's just me.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
88. Because it tells you which way is North.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:29 PM
Dec 2014

And lets you know when someone is bullshitting you for the sake of a personally profitable narrative rather than doing their best to educate the public.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
89. That makes sense
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 10:01 PM
Dec 2014

That being said, you're wrong about this article. Taibbi lays out exactly why the bailout guarantee that was given in the bill is bad and then lays out who's backing it. That's exactly what he's been doing for years.

I personally can't fault his assertion about being less nakedly corrupt and more reasonable. Sure, the Democrats won't invade Iraq, but they won't investigate, forget prosecute, the most blatant fraud in finance since the S&L crisis. We get a Democratic president and a GOP House cooperating to pass a bill that will put the federal government EXPLICITLY on the hook the next time the CDS house of cards comes crashing down. If that's the normal behavior of the party, why shouldn't your moral compass label as corrupt?

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
91. Who are the people calling this out? Are they Republicans?
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 10:26 PM
Dec 2014

No, they're Democrats. Taibbi doesn't care that without Democrats there is no opposition to any of this. Doesn't give a shit. The narrative of a party with a soul infected by the corruption of its environment sells less copy than "Democrats suck, I'm the real deal so listen to me!"

He wants to claim he's helping by being unfair, fine. Anyone can then claim the same prerogative in judging him.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
92. What?
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:01 PM
Dec 2014

You're seriously complaining that he's making Democrats look bad because they're doing bad things? Good Lord, if they didn't want him to say it, they shouldn't have done it!

It makes no sense to claim that "without Democrats there is no opposition to any of this." You could make the claim that it has no support without Democrats, because the president himself is shilling for it (along with more than a few Congressional Democrats). If it passes the Senate, it will definitely be with Democratic support. So, your complaint is asinine because the reverse is true.

The national party is not corrupted by its environment. It is a wholehearted participant in it. It's simply not true to claim that pure hearts were worn down because you end up arguing that people like Emanuel, Geithner, Rubin, and Summers really aren't the corporate whores they seem to be. They really mean well, it's just that they can't help agreeing with what exceedingly wealthy (and greedy) people want them to do.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
93. He doesn't give a fuck about the issues, just pushing a narrative.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:03 PM
Dec 2014

Every Democrat who is fighting on the side he claims to represent doesn't mean anything to him.

He wants to manufacture a situation where he's a "voice in the wilderness" even when he clearly isn't.

Corruption is as much a problem in the media as in government. These people serve themselves and no one else.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
97. Um, what?
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:43 PM
Dec 2014

He's spent the last 6 years detailing the issues and naming names. He's the guy who coined vampire squid to describe Goldman Sachs. He broke the Libor scandal. He added confirmation to last year's Frontline story that directly contradicted DOJ's lie that they never had witnesses to the rampant fraud in the MBS business. What else does he have to do?

Your bit about a voice in the wilderness is silly, at best. Taibbi's far from the only person talking about these issues. You could read Dean Baker, Bill Black, or Yves Smith (that's just the very top of the list). Taibbi just has one of the best known platforms for this, but he's far from the only one.

Your assertion about corruption is dumb. There is corruption in the media, but it ain't the guys whose organizations DON'T interview presidents. You want corruption? NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, CNN, NYT, WaPo, New Republic, National Review, etc. is where you need to start. Those are your cheerleaders for whoever is in power at a given moment. Their tunes change as soon as the occupant of the seat of power changes. They'll sell whatever an administration needs selling, whether it's a bullshit war, bullshit tax cuts, bullshit lies about why you can't prosecute obvious crimes, bullshit lies about why you need to inflict austerity on the majority while continuing to bail out the wealthy. There's your corruption in the media.

As a side note, Taibbi is most definitely an egotistical jerk. He clearly loves seeing his name in lights. So what? His stories are correct. A reporter isn't required to be a saint or a partisan hero, he's just required to tell the truth the best as the facts give it to him. You don't have to like his stories, but it's just dishonest to make claims about his character to undermine his stories when you don't have a clue as to his record.

dogknob

(2,431 posts)
17. Wow. It took until #7
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:22 PM
Dec 2014

I suspected 1 or possibly 2

Don't worry, most of us will be obedient little Hillary Hostages if that's what it comes down to.

Whatever stumblemuppet sputtering barely-encoded racism and sexism the GOP tosses under her bus won't get my vote.

dogknob

(2,431 posts)
55. Questioning the sense of reality of those who say things you don't like...
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:22 PM
Dec 2014

You'd make an acceptable media pundit, but I hope you don't handle your S/O or kids that way.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
59. You assumed I supported Hillary Clinton. You were wrong.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:25 PM
Dec 2014

Shouldn't that lead to some self-examination on your part about your assumptions?

 

sgtbenobo

(327 posts)
38. Really, I do wish I could somehow agree with you....
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:53 PM
Dec 2014

....but after the last 14 years of perpetual capitulation by these clowns it is evident they have no desire to do any of the heavy lifting required to rebuild our country. Their only interest seems to be nuzzling their corporate masters balls. Good work if you can get it. All you have to do is remove your spine and smile, smile, smile. Losers. These people could fuck up a wet dream. It's not hard to appear to be morally superior when the blob that Taibbi describes is only liked by 16% of the people it is supposed to serve. If you think Matt is being a big old meanie to our precious little legislature just wait until the electorate gets a dose of the next election cycle.

We might as well ask the Queen if she'll have us back. At least then we'd know that as the monarchs property we are to be used and abused as such.


The game is rigged. We r Phuct.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
39. If by "these clowns" you mean the Democratic Party in general as Taibbi does
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:55 PM
Dec 2014

you're simply rewriting history and defaming millions of courageous people who fought for and achieved substantive change.

 

sgtbenobo

(327 posts)
42. History and defamation really aren't that useful....
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:07 PM
Dec 2014

....when you are waste deep in the big muddy. Turning-the-fuck-around is.


Carry on.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
48. People are what matter.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:17 PM
Dec 2014

The Democratic Party helps people a lot more than any other in America. That's a fact.

The only way to prove it could do more, is by doing more.

 

sgtbenobo

(327 posts)
66. People do matter.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:42 PM
Dec 2014

But, just when do you think our elected representatives are going to acknowledge this fact? The people aren't members of their club. They won't even tell us where their meetings are.

If you want your vote to count become a lobbyist.


Carry on

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
71. If we want things to be better, we can't just do the same old shit.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:57 PM
Dec 2014

Whingeing and acting like facts have to change to accommodate our emotions.

If we don't like corporatists, stop conceding the Party to them.

Claim the Party for our own.

Howard Dean got that. Barack Obama got that. Matt Taibbi doesn't get that, if he ever gave a shit to begin with.

 

ArsSkeptica

(38 posts)
46. Re: "moving the party in the right direction"
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:15 PM
Dec 2014

Funny thing, that. He uses his platform to espouse ideas that he believes will move the party in what he believes to be the right direction (wit in this relevant post about Dems not being a party notwithstanding), and somehow that's not Taibbi's priority? How exactly do you propose someone with communication skills, platform, and audience move the party? Crowbar? Rental van?

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
50. You think categorically defining a Party as wrong, evil, and corrupt
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:18 PM
Dec 2014

moves it in the right direction?

Such a view of politics is like The Great Santini's view of parenting.

Would you raise a child on such a basis? Would you defend some asshole who constantly called their children worthless and stupid as a great parent who was trying to "motivate" them to do better?

 

ArsSkeptica

(38 posts)
72. Your apples to oranges comparison does nothing for me
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 07:01 PM
Dec 2014

Either the Democratic Party needs to get with the liberal program, or the liberals in it need to form a party and leave the the right-wing Democratic Party loyalists to jostle with the GOP for relevance. At least Taibbi agitates for the "get with the program" approach. He just does it by pointing at the Emperor's old, worn-out GOP hand-me-downs.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
74. But he doesn't. That's my point.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 07:04 PM
Dec 2014

He doesn't attack the paradigm - he attacks the person. Democrats are weak and useless in his world. Not even by choice - by definition. So that he himself can be defined as the hero. It's always the same with assholes like him. People like him have been saying this shit since the New Deal, calling it a capitalist sellout and FDR a tool. Same old game, same perverse results.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
123. And you attack him...I see.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:37 AM
Dec 2014

But I don't see how you can attack the paradigm and ignore the ones who control and are responsible...the party is a human construct and what they do is not something mystical it is people who are in charge that make things happen or not...in this case both...Republican things happen and Democratic things don't.

And I am tired of hearing that ir is those evil Republicans that make them do it. That excuse is wearing thin

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
124. There is no doubt that Kucinich is not corrupt, yes?
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:40 AM
Dec 2014

So why hasn't he managed to do anything in the House?

Or pick a Senator you think is fully moral and dedicated to the cause - why haven't they changed things?

The only possible default is that everyone else is against them - the position you just dismiss as laughable.

Can't have it both ways. Either the environment is incredibly difficult, or even the most principled liberals are corrupt.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
128. The most principled liberals are not in charge.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:53 AM
Dec 2014

And have not been for years now.
The ones in charge of the party are corrupt and are in the pockets of Wall Street.
But your argument seems to be that is we don't notice it and pretend that it is all good it will produce good results this time...when it has never happened before.
And that anyone who does notice it and speaks up is somehow a traitor to the party or suspect of being in it for the money and fame...that is disturbing to me...as if the party is more important than the principles it says it stands for.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
129. No one is in charge. Nor do we want there to be.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:55 AM
Dec 2014

There's just a bunch of people either working together or competing, and we don't do either very well, do we?

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
131. Well that is just delusional.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:05 AM
Dec 2014

If there is no one in charge then we don't need the DNC or minority leadership or the DLC.
But they are in charge, and they decide what legislation is presented or not, and who gets what comity and who will run for office and how much money they will spend to support them.

I don't know what else you would call that.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
132. Do they "decide" such things?
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:07 AM
Dec 2014

If they did, it's funny that it never - ever - deviates too strongly from a status quo they seem powerless to affect. Of course, we can claim they are just always all corrupt, but that seems like a stupid rationalization. The harder path is to accept that we affect that status quo and haven't done so adequately.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
134. Well we don't have the money to effect the party.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:20 AM
Dec 2014

But billionaires do, and they can offer them far more than we can.
A high paying BOD job when they leave the congress where they can make some real money, and lots of opportunities for their kids and whole family.
And all they have to do is go along to get along and make speeches that tell the rest of us what we want to hear...then abandon it when it comes time to vote...if it ever gets to the floor.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
135. Do we offer our leaders examples to emulate?
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:29 AM
Dec 2014

Believe it or not, the people at the top are inspired - or de-inspired - by what they see from below.

And while it never excuses them from their responsibilities, it's still true.

Congress is a reflection of us, even if it doesn't reflect our wishes.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
136. Why is it always our fault
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:39 AM
Dec 2014

Because we don't inspire them?...that is as backward as it comes...they are supposed to inspire us...not with words but actions...and they have failed in the leadership roll.
And that is why people don't show up at the polls, not because we failed to inspire THEM.

On paper Congress is supposed to reflect our wishes, but that is not the reality, the reality is that they reflect the wishes of money interest not the voter...and the action of the last few decades prove that to be a fact despite any words that have been spoken.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
137. It's always our fault because we choose to take responsibility for the future.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:46 AM
Dec 2014

This is our country. That statement is a choice, not a passive observation.

This is our world. Same stipulation.

The price is that everything is our fault.

Pay it, or pick a different choice.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
142. There is no choice between good cop and bad cop.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 03:07 AM
Dec 2014

They both have the same agenda.

But it is good child psycology...if you want a child to do something you want then give them a choice of two things you want them to do...

 

ArsSkeptica

(38 posts)
191. This might be the first point on which we essentially agree.
Tue Dec 16, 2014, 09:40 PM
Dec 2014

Congress is indeed a reflection of the voters, at least the ones that bother to turn out. We get the government we deserve, or, as I tend to think of it, "we" get the government "they" deserve. Bastards

So how is continuing to make the same Hobson's choice over and over again supposed to fix that? How do we describe doing the same thing expecting different results?

As for Mr. Taibbi, I have no illusions that he means to change the Democratic party or even any leadership caucus within it with his attack on the paradigm approach. He's ripping the bandage off our eyes so that WE will change and stop doing the same things over and over again, feebly hoping that maybe THIS time it will come out differently. Maybe we'll end up TeaPartying the Dem machinery. Maybe we'll end up leaving en masse for a better alternative, even if it means creating a new party.

Here's what little I think we can safely say we know (barring epistemological hair-splitting): time and again, the Democratic Party leadership at [national/state/local (circle one)] keeps setting an apparent agenda (as opposed to an honest reckoning of what they're about) and framing the discussion so that it's palatable, even desirable, to us, the garden variety voter. Party machinery grooms and selects (read: funds and welcomes into the fold) according to some criteria to which I'm apparently not privy, but which become apparent when we observe what we get from them...betrayal. Party machinery tends to serve up names/faces/talking points that add some sweet syrup to that apparent agenda, the better to attract us small/no donor voting booth flies. Then, far more often than not, the stuffed suits they put on the menu for us to choose from proceed to rectally feed us the rest of the syrup while acting against our express wishes, wishes that are evident from the nature of our votes in response to their promises.

So yeah, as long as we keep accepting the paradigm rather than attacking it, as long as we keep accepting their pseudo-choices, we get exactly what we deserve.

Correction. "I" keep getting what lesser-evil-accepting sell-outs deserve.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
54. The words are not correct.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:22 PM
Dec 2014

He demonizes the Democratic Party, even though the Democratic Party is the only major source of opposition to corporatist politics in government.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
81. If you're just going to concede the Party to its ugliest elements
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 07:39 PM
Dec 2014

just leave already and join the Greens. They'll never disappoint you because they'll never have a chance to.

bread_and_roses

(6,335 posts)
150. Left close to 20 years ago
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 09:05 AM
Dec 2014

Clinton's NAFTA, Welfare "reform," and deregulation drove me out the door.

Loyalty to a political party makes no sense to me; I can't even fathom the mindset. Policies matter. Actions matter. Period.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
189. Opposition? WHAT OPPOSITION???
Mon Dec 15, 2014, 11:32 AM
Dec 2014

All I am seeing is mass capitulation followed by excuses for why they had to felate their corporate donors again.

You are neck-deep in denial, friend.

 

DemandsRedPill

(65 posts)
68. and just what is 'real'?
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:49 PM
Dec 2014

It's attitudes like this that secure the Democratic parties place as the 'door mat' of politics.

What does progressive- ism really mean?

We have the 'cult of conservatism'
Do we really need another ism complete with all the correct dogma?

Similar attitudes in the Republican party gave us The Bush Crime Family, Iraq, and of course the 911 phenomenon.

It's called group think or better yet 'adhering to a dogma'

Why embrace the message when you can just 'kill the messenger'

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
70. Taibbi's message is "don't bother trying to change the Democratic Party."
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:54 PM
Dec 2014

It's a message reflected in recent results. Not results we wanted.

SunSeeker

(51,552 posts)
145. Exactly.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 03:20 AM
Dec 2014

But it is so much easier to throw in the towel than do something to fix the things that are wrong with our party.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
117. LOL, I don't think your little response of this post went as well as you were hoping....
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:52 AM
Dec 2014

Sort of taking an ass kicking.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
122. If you don't want me to respond, just say so.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:03 AM
Dec 2014

No need for the pretense that your posts are honest attempts to communicate.

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
116. And your objection to the article is what?
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:46 AM
Dec 2014

I read the whole thing.
He is right about a lot of it.
The banks will continue to engage in risky behavior, they will get bailed out by both the Republicans and Democrats (we'll be told it''s the only sensible thing to do). No one will be held accountable (unless it happens in a country where the political establishment has issues with risky behavior) and everything will move on until the next crisis

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
138. Considering this bill wasn't supported by the Democrats in the House, you'd have to wonder if . .
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:54 AM
Dec 2014

. . Matt simply had this ludicrous diatribe in the can already, and even though most of the Democrats voted against this bill, Matt went ahead and okayed it to be published, anyway.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
139. That's the most plausible interpretation.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:56 AM
Dec 2014

In the modern media environment, "churnalists" are encouraged to pre-write sellable narratives for contingencies and then just click "Send" when reality hits.

TransitJohn

(6,932 posts)
149. It sounds like you didn't read the excerpt in the OP
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 08:25 AM
Dec 2014

Taibbi said that if the Democrats believed in what they were doing, they would have held out and forced a shutdown to get what they want, like the Republicans do. Instead, they will let the bill pass with no fight to speak of.

TransitJohn

(6,932 posts)
148. LOL.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 08:20 AM
Dec 2014

Pretty superficial analysis, there.
Here's a free hint: he's not acting as a Democrat with a duty to help the Party when he's writing published stories.
Another pro tip: Not everyone cares to help the Democrats, especially liberals who have been burned by the Party too many times.

 

d_b

(7,463 posts)
8. He's correct
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:11 PM
Dec 2014

I'm so sick of the 'maturity & bipartisanship' bullshit we're always fed. It reminds me of a scene in Big Daddy, with Wall Street/Cons being the kid and Adam Sandler being the Democrats.


pa28

(6,145 posts)
11. The last few days revealed what so many no-show voters suspected about Democrats.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:16 PM
Dec 2014

No wonder we had our asses handed to us last month.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
96. The answer is in the title of your post:
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:38 PM
Dec 2014

"Fan," as in "fanatical."

While I think that particular personal characteristic occurs more often in conservatives (fanaticism), liberals are not immune from it.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
101. True, but it was a lot more than suspicion.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 11:58 PM
Dec 2014

We've had proof after proof since Bubba bragged about having ended "welfare as we know it," lobbied Dems to vote for Gramm, Leach Blilely (aka repeal of Glass Steagall), got Republicans Dick Morris and Colon Powell to create DADT, then got Congress to pass it, signed DOMA, signed the Telecommunications bill, signed NAFTA, etc. And that was only our very first official DLC philosophy President, the one whose electoral success helped turn the Party into what it is now.

Too bad everyone forgot so quickly that Ross Perot had a lot more to do with Bubba's electoral success than did DLC/Turd Way philosophy. (Or did they forget?)

polichick

(37,152 posts)
24. "I think of it as a single furiously-money-collecting/favor-churning oligarchical Beltway party" YEP
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:38 PM
Dec 2014
 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
27. The institutional Democratic party at the national level
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:42 PM
Dec 2014

is the "left" wing of the one and only party that exists: THE MONEY PARTY. Same economics, with a thin frosting of social tolerance to cover the cake made out of the same old elephant shit.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
44. Yes. Demanding that banks handle federally insured money carefully and without taking
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:13 PM
Dec 2014

enormous risks is a basically conservative idea. And I favor it.

The Citigroup provision in the budget is yet another corporate welfare scheme.

I'm all for food stamps. But why should the banks and corporations be allowed to gamble on the dole?

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
49. It's getting to be a harder sell.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:17 PM
Dec 2014

The Blob party campaigning as lesser than two evil populists and then transforming into oligarchs once elected is getting hard to ignore even for die-hard party loyalists.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
62. I'd throw up, Matt.
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:35 PM
Dec 2014
- That's what I ended up doing. Long time ago. Now I only get occasional heartburn when read things here at DU. Strange things. And coming from the mouths of Democrats, purportedly.

We greyheads, looking at the Democratic party now, one is compelled to compare it to the old neighborhood. When we thought we knew who we were -- and what mattered and we said so. Often. But everything looks so stark now. Harsher somehow. Everything is smaller and dingier and ranker, and ever so much more corrupt. You can't breathe.

It's not the place where I grew to adulthood anymore. Many have left -- disillusioned. And others simply return to their collection of faded snapshot memories of bygone days. Of the days back when we almost had it right. Almost. And hoping somehow that chance will come back.

Knowing it won't.

K&R


[center]''I can explain it to you, but I can't comprehend it for you.'' ~Ed Koch [/center]
 

DemandsRedPill

(65 posts)
64. spot on
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:37 PM
Dec 2014

I have said essentially the same thing many times

I have even gone so far as to express a similar message while standing right in front of our congress critter

My expression is just a little different but the message is the same

"the Democratic party exists for only one purpose. To serve as the second party by name only so that the masses don't finally wake up to the fact that we are for all intents and purposes a one party state.

Essentially they serve as a marketing tool just as Matt expressed.

What was it the soviets used to tell us?

Only difference between our government and yours is "you think you are free and we know we are not"

turbinetree

(24,695 posts)
65. LOGOS
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 06:39 PM
Dec 2014

Everyone of these hypocrites from the Congress to the Senate should have patches on there suits when they come out to vote, then we can actually see and hear, who they truly represent, just like in Golf, Nascar, ect...... if you have a sponsor then name it and show it, then we can see the political corruption that Warren was talking about

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
75. What he said here, this is my fear--"Warren (who will begin appearing in the press as an unhinged
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 07:10 PM
Dec 2014

combination of Lev Trotsky and Spartacus)" will be staved off by that avalanche of financial services donations. (They've already labeled her a socialist.)

They will attempt to crush her...But SHE is the one who declared war on THEM, & welcomed their hatred. Plus she's incredibly strong & sure in her convictions. The media eats up her words. RW media may try to make her seem unhinged, but that is expected...She's eloquent & sharp...

I'm feeling better already.

bbgrunt

(5,281 posts)
76. yes. sadly. "some folks" don't want to
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 07:11 PM
Dec 2014

admit the truth because it makes them feel their service has been in vain. I wonder where I've heard that before.

cantbeserious

(13,039 posts)
83. The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Own And Control The Politicians That Own And Control Us
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 08:06 PM
Dec 2014

No daylight between the parties on this topic.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
109. Geithner, former head of the NY Fed for Secretary of Treasury, reappointment of Gates for
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:27 AM
Dec 2014

Secretary of Defense and reappointment of Bernanke as Fed head, when the economy and the war were America's two biggest problems. So much for hope and change.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
162. Who chose Barack Obama? You?
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:20 PM
Dec 2014

Unless you're from the area where he lived, had you even heard of him before 2006 or 2007? What is the point of voting when you don't get to choose whom it is that you're voting for is also someone you'd want to vote for to start with?

What Professor Chomsky is alluding to is a series of studies that demonstrated that people in the lower 70% income brackets in the US are not represented, insofar as legislation is concerned, that considers them. That legislation is never influenced by their votes nor considered by their representatives, in the main.

In such an instance what does it matter if you voted or not if your representative doesn't care if you're alive or not except every two, four or six years? What he is saying is that the upper 30% income brackets are the ones who are listened to, catered to and whose vote matters to the elected representatives of this country, because of how those income brackets can affect him/her.

This. Is. Fascism. Defined.

- It's rigged. Through and through.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
163. I first heard of him in 2004, but that is beside the point. I am not disagreeing with Chomsky, even
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:24 PM
Dec 2014

a little.

What Professor Chomsky is alluding to is a series of studies that demonstrated that people in the lower 70% income brackets in the US are not represented, insofar as legislation is concerned, that considers them.

Exactly what I said he was saying.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
170. And those idiots deserve exactly what they got coming to them
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 03:36 PM
Dec 2014

No sympathy for anyone older than 21 who has to be "motivated" to vote every two years...

 

redruddyred

(1,615 posts)
193. late response -- but...
Fri Dec 26, 2014, 06:05 AM
Dec 2014

I think chomsky is right, but I'll turn the idea on its head: the only real political power that non-elites have IS the vote. yes, the system is corrupt, and we won't always get what we voted for, but it's the easiest way to effect change.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
159. K&R Because that's what corporations do.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:27 PM
Dec 2014

They market, they advertise, they spin, they try to sell toxic shit in boxes with pretty pictures on the cover for the highest profit possible.

They have no connection with the concept of representative government or working for the people, by definition.

And that is the grave problem with allowing corporations into governments, where they have power over people's lives.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
161. We need butter, Dems are giving us margarine Hillary; "looks just like butter". The rich,
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:25 PM
Dec 2014

however, will have their butter and eat it too.

TheKentuckian

(25,026 posts)
171. Margarine? Shit, one can make due with margarine well. We are given sage, lavender, and tarragon.
Sun Dec 14, 2014, 04:39 PM
Dec 2014

Nothing wrong with any of them when used sparingly in the proper applications but certainly a bizarre response to requests for butter.

We haven't gotten even margarine since before the You Won't Believe It's Not Butter came out, all we get is the commercials. Only the eldest of the greybeards can recall having real butter.

What I'd give for a dab of Blue Bonnet! Really, butter is just the talk of far fringe rabble rousers, miscreants, and trust fund dreamers divorced from reality in clouds of the weed! In the real world we just ask for a little drizzle of used canola oil, just enough to stave off utter dryness, mind you, and have the good sense to take a sage leaf or two if that is all we can get because it might be dry and crappy but at least there is a flavor of some sort.

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