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Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:02 PM

I had an interesting conversation with one of my sisters this morning, at breakfast.

We were discussing if porn should be illegal.

She says yes, I say no.

I did point out that policing all the different sources for porn would be near-impossible, especially with the Internet.

I also pointed out that even in countries where making porn gets the death penalty, porn still thrives.
Just too big a market.

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Reply I had an interesting conversation with one of my sisters this morning, at breakfast. (Original post)
Archae Dec 2014 OP
True Blue Door Dec 2014 #1
dawg Dec 2014 #2
True Blue Door Dec 2014 #6
elehhhhna Dec 2014 #19
True Blue Door Dec 2014 #20
dawg Dec 2014 #25
elehhhhna Dec 2014 #39
el_bryanto Dec 2014 #3
brer cat Dec 2014 #5
BlueJazz Dec 2014 #10
brer cat Dec 2014 #30
DebJ Dec 2014 #34
brer cat Dec 2014 #35
hifiguy Dec 2014 #36
True Blue Door Dec 2014 #7
el_bryanto Dec 2014 #15
True Blue Door Dec 2014 #17
el_bryanto Dec 2014 #18
True Blue Door Dec 2014 #22
el_bryanto Dec 2014 #23
True Blue Door Dec 2014 #26
el_bryanto Dec 2014 #27
True Blue Door Dec 2014 #28
el_bryanto Dec 2014 #29
True Blue Door Dec 2014 #31
boston bean Dec 2014 #41
hifiguy Dec 2014 #37
Schema Thing Dec 2014 #8
Archae Dec 2014 #12
hifiguy Dec 2014 #16
ismnotwasm Dec 2014 #21
Archae Dec 2014 #24
Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #43
pipi_k Dec 2014 #4
eridani Dec 2014 #9
hifiguy Dec 2014 #13
branford Dec 2014 #32
hifiguy Dec 2014 #38
olddots Dec 2014 #11
ismnotwasm Dec 2014 #14
hunter Dec 2014 #33
alphafemale Dec 2014 #40
GreatGazoo Dec 2014 #42
DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2014 #44
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #45

Response to Archae (Original post)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:12 PM

1. There's a radical gender disconnect on the issue.

Porn is by now more or less universally accepted among men.

Opinion among women is much more diverse, with a lot of bizarre ignorance and denial.

As a man, I'm occasionally shocked when I run into women who act like it's a bad, horrible, immoral thing. I don't think they put much thought into that reaction.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:19 PM

2. I don't think porn should be illegal, but I'm not exactly a fan either.

I think it is a huge overstatement to say that porn is universally accepted among men.

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Response to dawg (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:34 PM

6. There's a generational shift at work as well.

I would say that every man who grew up with the internet universally accepts porn. "Universally" of course within rational bounds - I don't mean literally 100%, just effectively universal.

Some women of the same generation also like porn, although with a different emphasis. Others tolerate it, but may not enjoy it. And some others are disgusted by it. But that's still a big shift from their mothers and grandmothers, for whom it was universally disgusting.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:58 PM

19. very broad brush statements, imo

 

Porn ranges from tame text to snuff films. IME, we ladywomen may enjoy various form pornography. When we're alone or only with very specific persons. if you aren't that person you will never know her kinks or lack thereof.

Posting via kindle sorry, messy

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Response to elehhhhna (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:00 PM

20. No it isn't "broad brush." I covered the bases.

I specifically said women's views ran the gamut, which is just what you said.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:15 PM

25. So I'm a little older. My opinion should still count.

We might not have had the internet when I was growing up, but we still had stuff like this:

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Response to dawg (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 08:55 AM

39. ancient amulet or buttplug? lol

 

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:30 PM

3. Do you ever get concerned that porn teaches men to see women as disposable objects

to be used only for sexual gratification?

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:34 PM

5. Thank you, Bryant. nt

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Response to brer cat (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:43 PM

10. I'm not so sure about that. Perhaps they thought that way anyway.

 

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Response to BlueJazz (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:48 PM

30. I am sure that some do.

I try not to paint with broad brushes. Probably not many women who read "bodice ripper" novels want to find a tall, dark stranger who rapes them until they fall madly in love and live happily ever after.

I know teens and young men who develop attitudes about women based more on the porn they find readily available on the internet than from their parents and other responsible adults in their life. Do they act on that? I don't know, but I certainly would not trust one within a mile of my granddaughters.

It is especially concerning when the porn features young children. Nothing good is going to come from that.

I don't think all porn should be illegal, but I do think that mature men as well as women need to recognize that films treating women as existing solely for some male's sexual gratification are not healthy.

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Response to brer cat (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 08:29 PM

34. Not only that, but that women

should have grotesquely distorted bodies in order to be sexually attractive, 'plastic' ones.

And not care about their own satisfaction.


And be happy to do anything, even if it is painful or dangerous, and never protest.

And to want to do this all the time anytime.

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Response to DebJ (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 08:34 PM

35. Very true.

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Response to DebJ (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 03:22 AM

36. Weirdly enough, amateur porn

 

Probably does undermine those stereotypes. Apparently a lot of people find "ordinary" people having sex on camera more interesting than watching the cartoonish porn stars doing the same thing. Perhaps they can identify with that more easily.

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:40 PM

7. Yes, there is that danger.

There always has been.

Ancient Roman men had public whorehouses - it was a utility, like water or electricity today. Porn is a pretty good compromise.

It doesn't take away from anything women would get. In fact, it removes a distraction so that emotions can take the forefront of a relationship.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:51 PM

15. So you feel that some woman might object to porn for sound reasons

Or do you feel like objection to porn rests on "bizarre ignorance and denial?"

I'm not a female so I know i'm not in the category - but it strikes me there are some rational reasons for women to be opposed to porn.

Of course the bulk of porn is made to reflect the male gaze, so it's understandable that males generally love it.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:55 PM

17. There are sound reasons to object, but none to call for it to be illegal.

Sound reasons to object would be:

1. It's unrealistic.
2. It causes a misunderstanding of real human sexuality.
3. It's lazy.

Those are reasons to not watch it. Not reasons to punish someone for watching it.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:57 PM

18. OK - where does speaking out against the practice of porn come in?

I mean if a woman thought it should remain legal, but felt that people should avoid it - is there a place for them to do so?

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:03 PM

22. Of course there is, as long as they accept being misinterpreted.

Young men want porn. I wanted porn when I was young. I still want porn, to a less intense degree. People who speak against it seem ridiculous on their face, even now, although I can see past the initial reaction by thinking about it.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:06 PM

23. Well god knows that nobody should ever consider getting in the way of young mens fun.

I mean we've seen what they are capable of lately. Doxxing and the like.

Really - I think we should build our whole society and entertainment complex around seeing that young men are satisfied.

Oh wait - we've already done that.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:15 PM

26. That's not an argument. That's resentment.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:23 PM

27. Your argument does boil down to "if you get in the way of young men's fun you will look stupid."

Not sure how to respond to that - does it occur to you that other members of society have value?

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:37 PM

28. I stated how I would perceive it.

If you choose to interpret that as an absolute statement of value, that's your decision to value my perceptions over others.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:41 PM

29. So I'm free to conclude that you are foolish in your assertions?

Thank you for that.

But then again I'm a male - possibly it's just females you consider exhibiting "bizarre ignorance and denial" of they get in the way of young men's fun.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:50 PM

31. You're taking a lot of liberties with my statements.

Do you honestly think that's making a point?

Does what I see affect what is? Does what I think change what a woman feels?

You're fighting an adversary who isn't there.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #31)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 09:01 AM

41. I enjoyed it. And found it to be very revealing.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 03:25 AM

37. People are weird.

 

Back in the 1920s some multiple murderer was apparently inspired to mayhem by the golden calf scene in a Cecil B. DeMille biblical epic of the day. No one can predict what will set off a loony.

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:40 PM

8. some porn does that, but not all porn.




A heck of a lot of porn out there nowadays is just two-people-fucking. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:47 PM

12. From what I've read, it's the men who are the disposable ones.

Male actors in porn earn much less and are less well known.

I know there are many exceptions to this, especially in sleazy porn like fake "rape porn" or such.

But looking at the entire industry, this is so, that women make more.

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Response to Archae (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:54 PM

16. Back in the days of the studios

 

the female stars had ALL the power. The guys were disposable and no one paid to see them. I remember seeing Seka on an afternoon talk show, in the early 90s I think, and she said that she owned her own production company, had absolute and final say on who she would work with and what she would do on film and also had money in a distribution company. She was not the only woman with some real business savvy about the industry back in the day. She became a wealthy woman and retired in he 30s IIRC.

Given the apparent popularity of "do it yourself" amateur porn that probably doesn't happen as much any more.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:01 PM

21. You ever see the comic/horror movie "One-eyed Monster" with Ron Jeremy?

He spoofs porn as well as himself, but has one part where he longs for the "good old days"

Funny as hell

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:08 PM

24. I saw the trailer for it.

Laughed my ass off.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 10:43 AM

43. lulz thanks

just saw the trailer

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:31 PM

4. I'm pretty sure

I won't be the only one to say this...

The trouble with outlawing something like porn is, who gets to decide what is porn.

that's why it wouldn't work. Too subjective.

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Response to pipi_k (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:41 PM

9. That's easy

If I like it, it's erotica.
If you like it, it's porn.

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Response to eridani (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:48 PM

13. So true.

 

That is always the crux of this particular biscuit. Which is why no one should decide, at least regarding materials involving adults.

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Response to eridani (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 07:51 PM

32. Heh.

 



I'm generally of the opinion that if an act involves consenting adults, it's just none of my damn business. If you don't like porn, you need not watch or purchase it. If you believe it has no redeeming qualities, you are equally free to speak out. The First Amendment is truly wonderful.

As soon as the government determines what porn is acceptable, what constitutes acceptable art or music will be next. The slippery slope is a very dangerous thing.

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Response to branford (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 03:27 AM

38. Very well said, indeed!

 

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:46 PM

11. I live in a fantasy world

 

A world where we use our imaginations to creat our fantasy visions and sound effects to the desired effect .This brings up the concept of being jaded and bored so we have to rely on fake stymulous like making the scene with a magazine , video or watching other people "do it " for srymulation .


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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 06:51 PM

14. Porn is awful

No it shouldn't be illegal, but it likes to promote ideals such as "barely legal", is blatantly racist as well as calling the actors terrible, demeaning names in the film descriptions. This can be found in all forms of porn.
You have to dig through all that crap to find anything decently erotic. To me it's a reactionist example of sexual repression/entitlement coupled by corporate sex (no pun intended)

Part of the answer is honest education about sex, gender sexual equality (an entire other topic)and improve porn by stop making porn into something "dirty" or "naughty"--terms often found in film descriptions. Stop using terms like slut or whore for actors. Stop using skin color or culture as a means of promoting racist tropes.

And what a golden opportunity to promote safe sex right? The producers largely ignore this.



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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sat Dec 20, 2014, 08:08 PM

33. This would probably be a bad time to post a nipple pic.

The last time I did that here on DU the post got hidden. A perfectly normal and utterly useless male nipple!

My personal standard is pretty low. Or maybe it's high. Mere nudity ranges from silly to high art. Harmless. Maybe even inspiring. My origins are in a culture that has few problems with casual nudity; swimsuits are always optional.

Warning, danger, Nudity:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_%28Michelangelo%29

I've posed nude for artists too, but I'm no David, especially these days.

There is a point where sex is exploitive, objectifying, dehumanizing, etc., but it's less often the internet porn site itself than the damned comments. Youtube and Yahoo! news comments suffer the same problem. There are a lot of deeply twisted and mean people here in the U.S.A.. They can't look at an ordinary news story or a picture of naked people that their own internal filth doesn't vomit out of them. And sadly, yeah, there are porn sites that cater to these twisted mean people too.

Naughty poses with statues make me laugh.



http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/photos/25-people-molesting-statues







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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 08:59 AM

40. Making consensual things criminal is insane and cruel. nt

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 10:17 AM

42. Why should porn be illegal? and your argument "impossible to enforce" concedes and

seems to agree with your sister.

So why should porn be illegal ?

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 11:01 AM

44. Regardless of your opinion or her opinion a ban on porn is unenforceable./NT

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 21, 2014, 11:27 AM

45. legal and heavily regulated, just like Wall Street should be.

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