Do you support NYPD members turning back on DiBlasio?

[closeupready]

98 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	10 (10%)
	No
	84 (86%)
	Other (Explain.)
	4 (4%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Agnosticsherbet]

1. I do not agree with heir point of view, but I support their right to protest.

[Control-Z]

6. I don't believe officers in uniform

have the same right to protest as civilians have.

[Agnosticsherbet]

51. They are American citizens. They certainly do have a right to protest as citizens.

Now, if they were military in uniform, they would not be allowed to protest in uniform.

The police, however, are not military.

[Scuba]

73. Are you allowed to protest while at work?

[joeglow3]

93. I don't work for the government.

Did you skip civics class?

[Scuba]

106. No, but I used to work for the government.

[daredtowork]

87. A big deal about the sanctity of the funeral was made to keep other protesters away

So as a matter of fairness, if these cops were allowed to "protest", the other side should have been allowed, too. But by presenting the funeral as a protest-free space, these cops made the story look one-sided so their protest could look bigger.

In many places cops are not allowed to make political statements: it's a cause for dismissal whether they are unionized or not.

This is not a free speech issue. This is an issue of a bunch of cops who were under scrutiny showing yet again that they take the LOW ROAD.

[cherokeeprogressive]

61. Paid by tax dollars... how do you feel about IRS employees protesting?

[Control-Z]

65. I'm not sure that applies.

Do IRS employees wear a uniform and carry a gun?

Seems like apples and oranges to me. The police have deadly power at their fingertips. They are supposed to stand for upholding law and keeping the peace.

Out of uniform they are the average citizen. Not really, but for the sake of argument we'll say they are. So protest away.

Everything I've looked up about their duty and rights while in uniform says no protesting while in uniform. (I haven't searched every state and don't plan to.)

[Agnosticsherbet]

102. The same way I feel about the people in Furgusson protesting.

They have the right to address their goernment, even in protest.

[CreekDog]

108. off duty and out of uniform or other identifying insignia is fine

they can protest as a union action.

[ann---]

11. At a funeral?

That's no better behavior than that of the Westboro Church morons.

[Agnosticsherbet]

52. It was a policeman's funeral, and they were protesting their city government.

not proesting because of Gays.

However, they do have the right to protest.

[sabrina 1]

83. Do they have the right to lie about the cause of the death of the officer at whose funeral

they were protesting?

Does the Mayor have that 'blood on his hands'?

[ann---]

85. I don't know what you mean

The mayor has NO blood on his hands. Pantaleo has the blood of Eric Garner on his hands and the dead shooter of Ramos and Liu has blood on his dead hands. But the mayor killed no one nor did he ever incite anyone to do so.

[ann---]

84. Not by being disrespectful to their boss

while the family is mourning the loss of the slain policeman.

[marym625]

76. Great comparison. n/t

[treestar]

94. That's the issue

Legally they would always have the right to Freedom of Speech like anyone else. But as a matter of manners and taste it was ridiculous and probably gained them no sympathy for their point of view.

[madville]

50. I support their right to organize and protest

Don't have to agree with the message or timing though.

[Agnosticsherbet]

53. I agree entirly.

[aquart]

110. Precisely.

[aquart]

103. Do police have a right to not help you if they disagree with you?

[Agnosticsherbet]

105. They are union members with the right to unionize.

They are required to perform the duties they are assigned.

I do not know where your question comes from.

Are police refusing to answer calls by citizens who do not agree with them?

[GGJohn]

2. That's highly disrespectful.

They may have their perceived differences with the Mayor, but the funeral is NOT the place for this nonsense.

[daleanime]

3. Needs a Hell no....

option.

[meow2u3]

4. The NYPD works for the people and mayor of New York City

Someone ought to remind the NYPD cops who turned their backs on Mayor DeBlasio who they work for and who signs their paychecks. This is not only disrespectful, but also an act of gross insubordination that should be an dismissible offense. The NYPD is not the independent and unaccountable occupying force they must think they are. If I were the mayor, I'd call in the police commissioner and tell him to fire the officers found disrespecting the boss, and make the offenders forfeit their pensions and all other benefits.

If employees, union or not, turned their backs on the head honcho of a private company, their asses would have been fired yesterday.

[pintobean]

7. Was that your position with Wisconsin teachers

and Walker?

[Ellipsis]

8. Not even close in comparison

[CatWoman]

14. plus

always sides with the scum side of events............

[pintobean]

18. Unions are on the scum side?

Nice to know.

[Glassunion]

22. Jury results.

On Sat Dec 27, 2014, 05:28 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Unions are on the scum side?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6010682

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Union bashing troll

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Dec 27, 2014, 05:39 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see nothing wrong here. Can I get these 3 minutes back please?
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Looks like the poster is saying just the opposite
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Someone's sarcasm meter is broken. Big time.

Pinto's post is sarcasm FFS.

The alert button is too easy to press. We should increase the voltage.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter should try reading. He's claiming someone else believes all unions are evil. Because pintobean is a fucking moron desperately trying to deflect an argument he's losing. Unfortunately, being a fucking moron is not, in and of itself, sufficient for a hide.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter must not understand the use of a question mark. The post he replied to referenced "scum side" and pintobean's asking a follow up question. I hope this goes 7-0 to leave alone.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't take that as anti union, I think the person was being sarcastic in response to the previous post. Unless I am completely missing the point.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[pintobean]

24. Thank you.

And, #4 is icing on the cake.

[Glassunion]

25. Indeed.

I was juror #3... This time.

I swear juror 4 is always the sweet spot.

[Caretha]

44. Standing ovation

for Juror #4....boy does he have your number....hehe

[Sheldon Cooper]

64. Jury Results:

On Sat Dec 27, 2014, 07:12 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Standing ovation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6011451

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Personal attack. Here's what Juror #4 had to say in an alert that went 0-7 in Pinto's favor-
"Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter should try reading. He's claiming someone else believes all unions are evil. Because pintobean is a fucking moron desperately trying to deflect an argument he's losing. Unfortunately, being a fucking moron is not, in and of itself, sufficient for a hide."

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Dec 27, 2014, 08:07 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm too stupid and too happy to understand stupid bullshit concerning alerts related to past alerts related to future alerts compared to past alerts founded on alerts started YESTERDAY that were intended to make said poster feel silly and like they needed to pee.

This IS soccer, right?

cherokeeprogessive
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm fine with Juror #4's comments, and with Caretha's applause of them.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[MrMickeysMom]

32. ...

[ann---]

86. What is happening to DU?

Free speech isn't championed any more?

[Bonx]

91. Free speech here is limited to a specific subset of accepted speech.

The specific definition of which is... fluid.

[Man from Pickens]

23. police unions often are

don't see how that can be disputed with the way they handle cases where cops have murdered people

[CatWoman]

41. I've learned a lot about Police unions these past few months

DA's rely heavily on their support for election/reelection.

this is one of the reasons they (DA's) are hesitant to prosecute police -- no matter how fucked up they are.

Any district attorney knows that an endorsement from law enforcement unions is vital to earning voters’ trust. As a result, police unions play an outsized role in district attorney elections.

For these reasons, it’s unrealistic to expect even the best district attorney to be absolutely impartial in cases where they are asked to prosecute a police officer. It’s why I have called upon the governor of New York to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate and prosecute cases where a police officer is accused of causing the death of, or grievous injury to, another person.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/prosecutors-police-inherent-conflict-our-courts

another reason to be suspect?

Police unions are the ONE and ONLY union "blessed" by Republicans.

[etherealtruth]

43. they (police unions) are sick

I have trouble NOT supporting unions .... but the police unions appear to be unions of sociopaths/ organized crime group.

[CatWoman]

42. police unions are

[R B Garr]

47. Exactly. And it's that obvious.

[Agnosticsherbet]

54. You do realize that you anti-unon attitudes put you in agreement with Republicans.

[CatWoman]

55. only asshole unions, which they fully endorse

Unions that help people - good.

Unions that enable murderers - bad.

so if that makes me "anti-union" so be it.

I can live with that.

Just don't call me a republican.

[Agnosticsherbet]

57. Thank you for proving my point.

[CatWoman]

58. you're very welcome.

anytime.

[SwankyXomb]

104. Real unions

don't help their members get away with actual murders.

[Agnosticsherbet]

107. Real unions arrange to protect their members with health care,

legal care for things that happen on the job, as well as negotiate with management for raises and other parts of pay packages. This is exactly what the union did. The union provided lawyers to protect their members in legal cases. Now, the whole legal system failed in these cases. The DA in these cases did not treat cases where the police are involved as they would if a burglar robbed a liquor store and killed a worker. That is not the fault of the union. That is the fault of the system set up by elected officials.

Because you do not like the result reached by the legal system does not mean they are not union members.

[treestar]

95. It is a good comparison

Freedom of Speech means hearing things we don't like.

Trying to make exception for government employees means you have to consider that teachers are.

[Ellipsis]

109. Close as LA is to New York

[JaneyVee]

15. apples and oranges.

[joeglow3]

96. That is what I would say too if I had no response.

[backwoodsbob]

75. you're right

how dare anyone question their employer.BY GOD we need to remember who signs our paychecks and bow in subserviance to them.

Who do we commoners think we are raising up and stuff

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

5. As a public school teacher, I was not even allowed to have an opinion or talk to the press.

It was against regulations. I can't imagine a large group teachers acting like this.

[cwydro]

9. The funeral was not the place for this.

The funeral was in honor of Ramos and for the family.

[ann---]

10. They should all be fired

or at the very least, reprimanded without pay for disrespecting the slain officer's memory at his funeral.

[helpmetohelpyou]

12. It was childish and not the place for it

[HereSince1628]

13. NYPD declaring it's going to a war footing can't be supported.

I give a shit if they turn their back on the mayor. That's a discipline issue I expect police management to handle.

But the going to war crap is way too close to declaring marshal law, and as they don't have authority to do that, it comes way way to close to a paramilitary coup.

It's not a discipline problem. It's the usurping of power, an act rebellion against lawful authority. I'm pretty sure it would be seen as a violation of their oath to uphold the Constitution and Laws of New York.

[LordGlenconner]

16. Very childish

Then again, many of them are just that -- overgrown children.

[customerserviceguy]

17. If they were not officially on duty

then I support their First Amendment rights to peaceably express themselves.

[PADemD]

27. Not official duty

Then don't wear the uniform.

[customerserviceguy]

30. If they violated any NYPD rules

by wearing their uniforms to the funeral of a fellow officer, then deal with it that way. I have a feeling that they're given wide latitude to wear them as they see fit.

[LittleBlue]

19. IMO they have the right to protest

But shouldn't have done it at a funeral. That overshadows the dead.

So I disapprove while acknowledging their right to do it.

[Ramses]

20. every one that turned their backs

Should be reprimanded and discharged for insubordination of the worst kind. No employee in any union,let alone those without representation would ever get away with this disturbing shit. This is the same bunch of clowns that declared themselves a wartime department

Fire them all and investigate them for incitemeny to violence. Fuck this noise.

[etherealtruth]

21. their right to do so: YES

their 'cause" ...not at all

[WinkyDink]

39. IS it their right, while in uniform and on duty?

[etherealtruth]

40. Funny thing, I was reading through the rest of the thread and someone pointed that out (down thread)

... it may have been you? it made me reconsider my thoughts on this.

if they are ON DUTY, I agree with the thought that they do NOT have the right to this.

Off duty ... they have the right to protest whatever their little sociopathic hearts desire.

I find their behavior on and off duty disgusting, but unlike them I believe in the right to protest (again, agreeing that it must be done off duty)

[joeglow3]

97. How many of them were on duty?

I am guessing none.

[MFM008]

26. they are like the military

which means this is insubordination. They don't like Mayors, especially liberal mayors with a mixed race family. This is a snit, a whine,. They would ACT like they respect civilian authority or be fired.

[SamKnause]

28. I support the numerous

assassinated victims.

I support the families of these victims.

I support the protesters.

I have little support for the officers.

I have even less support for their union.

The officers actions and opinions tell me everything I need to know about them.

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. I thought the police didn't like protests?

Except their own, I suppose.

And during a funeral.

Lawd.

[onecaliberal]

31. Not only no, but hell no.

The gross insubordination on display and the complete lack of respect is unbelievable.
If they were a private company the lot of them would have been let go the moment that funeral was over.

[Rex]

33. Cops want to be pigs at a funeral, just shows you the true character and that of their supporters.

Authoritarians are a shitty bunch of people that have no sense of humor and hate anything remotely creative. They love violence and hate tranquility. Fuck the pigs...I am glad we get to see their true hypocritical nature on display.

At a funeral for two of their very own. Fucking sick, but again it is very expected by a certain element of society.

[Mike Nelson]

34. Not at a funeral...

... or while on duty.

[Raine]

35. Disgraceful at a funeral, reminds of the digusting Phelps (? not sure that's their name) family. nt

[Cha]

36. Dear Mayor de Blasio #NYPD are skilled at turning their backs, especially when it involves..

Bobfr @Our4thEstate
Follow
Dear Mayor @BilldeBlasio #NYPD are skilled at turning their backs, especially when it involves murdering #POC.
#EricGarner
#BlackLivesMatter
8:10 AM - 27 Dec 2014 16 Retweets 10 favorites

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/12/27/photo-of-the-year-july-august/

[madokie]

37. Where is the option of

f* nof they're just a bunch of punks or something along that line

[WinkyDink]

38. No. WTH do they think they are?

[LWolf]

45. Sure.

As long as they also turn their backs to their fellow officers who shoot unarmed civilians as well.

[branford]

46. I though the police turning their backs was rude, short-sighted and provocative.

It was also entirely legal and permissible. There's a reason why no one from the mayor's office has even anonymously suggested discipline is appropriate or forthcoming and the union felt comfortable and confident with the action. The comparisons between the police and military are also just wrong as a legal matter.

This topic has been explored and discussed ad nauseum on numerous threads. It is astonishing how many purportedly pro-union, pro-free speech and pro-public employee Democratic liberals suddenly sound like Scott Walker or the Heritage Foundation when the topic concerns police unions.

The back-turning was puerile and provocative, but it's hardly the worst incident between a NYC mayor and the police, and I'm confident that Mayor deBlasio can handle the heat. Democracy is sometimes and little messy, yet the republic endures.

[Ohio Joe]

48. Other

I 100% support their right to do what they did... I think they are monstrous shit bags for doing it.

[840high]

67. +10

[R B Garr]

49. They are not protesting. They are just showing attitude.

They have no legitimate issues to protest -- they are just showing an arrogant display of attitude about being accountable. Disgusting.

[Miigwech]

56. No and ...

Hell No!

[BadGimp]

59. Yes I support their actions but NO I don't agree

[Nye Bevan]

60. I disagree with them, but support their right to do it, and don't think they should be fired.

DeBlasio is a big boy, he can take it.

[Union Scribe]

62. They prove that cops support their killer brethren

They aren't there to serve or protect anyone except their literal partners in crime and corruption.

And screw anyone saying we have to support them because they're a "union"--they are not any union members' allies in solidarity. They're the goons called to suppress organized labor and citizen protests, so anyone thinking they're going to feed me that "they're union!" BS can save it for a sucker.

[X_Digger]

63. I support their right to do so. Was it a dick move? Hell yes. n/t

[Cha]

66. The Police Showed Absolutely No Respect for Authority Today.. All While..

[kickysnana]

68. I support their right to do it. I do not support them doing it. I'll stop now n/t

[Enthusiast]

69. I am thoroughly disgusted by this obvious politically motivated act.

Police, you have just reinforced every negative bad cop stereotype. Just like the rest of your judgment.

[TorchTheWitch]

70. had to chose "other" since you didn't clarify what you meant by "support"

I absolutely support their right to protest as I would any other civilian. It doesn't matter whether or not I agree with anyone's cause. Either one believes in the right of free speech and to peacefully protest and to address grievances or one doesn't. I'm sickened by all the screaming here by people who allege they're liberal/progressive/Dems claiming erroneously that they don't have the right and even wanting to abolish their union which is one of the strongest in this country.

I don't happen to like some of the things de Blasio has publicly said and do believe that it causes divisiveness between the community and the officers who serve it. It isn't our place to decide whether or not they have a legitimate grievance in the first place since we can't know what they do nor have the same understanding about it that they do... that's between them and the mayor just as I wouldn't presume to know whether or not anyone else had a legitimate grievance with their employer or spouse or family or friends, etc.

I generally like de Blasio and understand that he's generally quite liberal as far as any politician is these days. However, he's still a politician who I'd never trust any more than a used car salesman and is just as steeped in "politics" as our system has become, and it makes far more sense to generally like someone and recognize they're also not perfect and both can and do sport feet of clay from once in a blue moon to every waking moment depending on the person.

Obviously, DU members who aren't hiding every post that has anything to do with this subject is going to chose to be against the police since DU has basically become Cop Hate Underground spiced with the usual dose of hero worship for any Dem politician.

[geek tragedy]

80. You seem to support them unconditionally against the mayor.

Unless I missed the part where you acknowledged the NYPD's behavior has been problematic (we can start with their blood libel of Mayor DeBlasio).

[Rex]

100. You could have stopped after unconditionally.

I have no idea why some here will never criticize police, but it is probably because they take it personally and lose their objectivity. Happens on more than just this topic imo.

[geek tragedy]

71. Transparency is a great thing, those who support the racist cops really reveal quite a bit

about themselves.

[Cha]

72. The question is "Do you support NYPD members turning their back on di Blasio?" NO. It's prepubescent

Hypocritical, an arrogance beyond despicable, and more importantly.. heartbreakingly disrespectful to Officers Ramos and Liu.

[ChosenUnWisely]

74. Out of Uniform and Off Duty they can peacefully protest to their hearts content

In uniform they have to show respect for the uniform and their office, if they can’t they should not be cops.

[marym625]

77. Going through this thread

I feel like so many have missed the point.

Yes, it was disrespectful to not only the Mayor (which was the point) but it was disrespectful to the family. It took the focus off the funeral. The biggest discussion about the funeral is now that the cops, who supposedly came to honor one of their fallen brothers, turned their backs. No discussion, or very little, about Officer Ramos or his family.

But the biggest thing is why they turned their backs. Because they are blaming someone that is blameless in the murder of these two officers. IMHO, it is wrong, stupid, propaganda, a fucking commercial for the cops and beyond disrespectful to the Ramos family

[IdaBriggs]

79. They behaved like that whack job church that protests at funerals. nt

[Gothmog]

81. The police union is being stupid

This was a bad move

[bigwillq]

82. Don't have an issue

with turning around in silent protest; they're free to do that.

Didn't follow the coverage, but I would have an issue with a vocal protest that included signs, a la the Westboro Baptist folks, who are just rude, imo. But turning around in silent protest is not that big a deal to me.

With that being said, not sure what the ramifications will be or are. One is free to turn their backs, but they must live with the possible ramifications of their actions.

[B Calm]

89. Lot of low post counts on yes voters.

[Union Scribe]

98. They're so subtle aren't they? nt

[B Calm]

99. Some of them have up to 5 hides. .

[hrmjustin]

101. There are a huge amount of posters who join but never or rarely post.

My four terms on mirt were an eye-opener.

[workinclasszero]

90. The cops that turned the funerals of the two murdered policemen into

right wing political theater ought to be ashamed if they had the capacity for shame which I'm sure they do not.

[closeupready]

92. No, they don't care. The union will protect them.

End of story, as far as they are concerned.

[Gormy Cuss]

111. Support as in they should have the right to do so? Sure.

Support as in turning their backs while deBlasio speaks at a police academy graduation? Yes.
Support as in making a funeral about themselves rather than the person being buried? No.