Norwegian student risks 35 years in jail in the US - made a wrong turn

[Lars77]

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10073343 Translation follows

This is a story about what must be one of the most unlucky people ever. This is a guy that moved to the states because he was bullied at his school in Oslo. In 2002 he studied in Chicago. He was assaulted by two people while jogging, and in September the same year his school kicked him out because he might be a terrorist. He sued the school so that he might continue his studies elsewhere.

He has spent the last seven months in Navajo County Jail, mostly isolated, with handcuffs and foot chains, convicted of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. The weapon: His moms rental car.

On Saturday 24th of September last year, John and his mother were driving from Los Angeles to Chicago in John´s Volvo. His mother was driving, when a warning light comes on indicating something is wrong with a tire. She decided to exit at the first opportunity, Winslow, Arizona. However something is wrong with the steering and they crash in the central reserve.

They are taken for a check-up at Winslow hospital, then they need a rental car. A taxi driver took them to Flagstaff where they could pick up a rental car, then they headed back to Winslow to get their belongings. On this day, the annual music festival was going on in Winslow. John mistakenly turns into Winslow´s 2. street going the wrong way down the one way street full of people enjoying the festivities. John drives slowly but some people still hurl abuse and make threatening gestures towards the car.

When he tried to turn into the Auto Shop where his Volvo was towed, a crowd surrounded the car and his mother panicked and told him to get out of there. He backed up against a curb and got a flat tire. He stopped a few meters away from a hot dog stand. There is a woman and her kids inside the hot dog stand, the car never made any contact with them or the stand. Many of the witnessess thinks this is deadly dangerous driving. They drive around the block, enter 2. street the right way and stop. The car is surrounded by people. Michael Mendoza, saw what happened from his store and had chased the car around the block thinking John had attemted to kill his wife and children. John has the window rolled down and is reciving verbal abuse when Mendoza shows up and punches John in the face, spewing blood all over the steeringwheel, breaking his nose.

He panicks, hits the gas, turns in the street and leaves as fast he can. During this maneuver one woman surrounding his car has her toe run over, another woman was scratched as she jumped away from the car. Those are the only injuries.

John calls 911. Right after this, at least 10 police officers show up with their weapons drawn. Both his mom and John is arrested. John has not been released since.


It turns out that the angry witnesses are all related or friends. His lawyer Criss Candelaria, a former DA of 22 years, calls it a scandal. The honrary consul of Norway to Phoenix, Professor George Olander at State University of Arizona says the case is shameful for the United States, and that a ticket for reckless driving would have been enough.

Tomorrow he will recieve his sentencing, a minimum of five years.

[MichiganVote]

1. We look more like Nazi Germany everyday

[Son of Gob]

14. I missed the part where all Norwegians were being gassed

The story indicates one was convicted for trying to run people over with a car but I didn't see the genocide part.

[Cerridwen]

16. Lower the bar a bit more.

"Hey, they're not being gassed. WTF are they complaining about?"

[Son of Gob]

20. "Hey it's Nazi Germany, people are getting arrested for running people over."

That's lowering the bar.

[Cerridwen]

53. It's astounding the number of people who think/insist

the German people woke up one morning to camps, ovens, Jewish ghettos, Pogroms, and cattle cars filled with people with no warning signs whatsoever.

[Son of Gob]

55. So you think the US government is going to, at some point, start mass murdering it's citizens?

This story, about a man who was imprisoned for using his car as a battering ram, is one of the links to the chain that will lead us to that? That's what you're saying, right?

[Cerridwen]

56. Nice spin.

No.

I didn't even comment on the article. Did you notice?

"...the dictatorship of the future will be very unlike the dictatorships which we've been familiar with in the immediate past.

...take another book...George Orwell's "1984"...written at the height the Stalinist regime, and just after the Hitler regime, and there he foresaw a dictatorship using entirely the methods of terror, the methods of physical violence...I think what's going to happen in the future is that the dictators will find, as the old saying goes, you can do everything with bayonets except sit on them.

...{the new dictators will find} if you want to preserve your power indefinitely, you have to get the consent of the ruled, and this they will do partly by drugs.., partly by these new techniques of propaganda. They will do it by bypassing the rational part of man and appealing to his subconscious and his deeper emotions and physiology even...making him actually love his slavery.

...this is the danger that actually people may be in some ways be happy under the new regime. But they will be happy in situations in which they oughtn't to be happy..."

(emphasis added) Aldous Huxley, The Mike Wallace Interview, 5/18/1958 (video link at link)

[Son of Gob]

57. Oh, I see

You just enjoy non sequiturs and ridiculous hyperbole.

[Cerridwen]

58. I doubt you do.

I do see, though. I also know when I've got a 'live' one. Have a great evening.

[Son of Gob]

59. A live one huh?

Because I don't buy the ridiculously one sided story in the OP or because I don't think we're on our way to becoming Nazi Germany Part Deux? Or both? Enjoy your witchhunt!

[LanternWaste]

120. Oddly enough, you just described both Goebbels and Limabugh...

"You just enjoy non sequiturs and ridiculous hyperbole..."

Oddly enough, you just described both Goebbels and Limabugh...

[karynnj]

209. There is nothing to suggest that this happened because they were from Norway.

If the story is true as written, it is clear that the penalty is far too much for what he did. But, it sounds like there has not been a trial yet. It does seem wrong that he has been held in jail.

[Son of Gob]

220. Read downthread

He was found guilty and sentenced to 7.5 years.

[HiPointDem]

25. 5 years in jail, and not for trying to run people over.

[Son of Gob]

46. That's a funny way to try to not run people over

Going the wrong way on a CLOSED one way street that is full of people.

[lorddave999]

52. How do you know he knew it was closed?

If it was one way (going away from the festival) then the police may not have put any signs to say "road closed". If that's the case then John may have just driven on it thinking there were an unusual amount of people. But we went slow. If he wanted to kill someone, why not put the pedal to the medal?

[Son of Gob]

54. How can you possibly think he didn't?

When you see a street full of people your first reaction should be to put the car in reverse and turn around, not drive through the crowd like this guy did.

[pacalo]

67. It's reasonable to allow that he was not familiar with the area; this isn't his home country.

According to the article, he went very slowly down a one-way street & tried to get out of the situation by awkwardly maneuvering himself out of what must have been a tight spot.

On the other hand, when that many people are showing such unusual anger toward a motorist, I tend to believe he's denying that he did something wrong.

[Son of Gob]

71. I can understand unwittingly going the wrong way on a one way street

but not when the street is full of people. The article makes it clear that he saw the people in the street and continued to drive slowly through them. That's according to the clearly one sided article. Most people wouldn't use their car to forge a path through a street of people, they'd put the car in reverse and find another way.

I'd like to know what really happened, the little we do know from this article reads like it was written by his defense team.

[cocernedinaz]

73. response

it was written solely by HIS team. from my understanding, he asked for directions and then chose not to take them and went pshyco. people in our community are not armed and dangerous. why would he attempt to ask for directions and go opposite? shouldnt have asked to begin with. we as a community are going to publicize all this soon. we plan to obtain public court records etc and prove to all the haters on here that we did nothing wrong. HE IS THE GUILTY ONE...

[pacalo]

75. I'm confused, as well, but there are a number of Norwegians who have recently

subscribed to DU to comment on this thread. This a big story for them & they're not happy about how this is going for the driver. I'd like to learn more about the case, too, if it involves outrage on both sides.

[cocernedinaz]

77. of corse

of corse they are all upset, thinking is a prejudice attack on this idiot. like i said, google this man, all public records what kind of person he is. i also read on another page from the norweigan news that shots were fired etc. UMM ..... LIES LIES LIES. this story has been twisted so much. i will get my hands on PUBLIC COURT PAPERS and would be glad to post. may take a while but i will get it done.

[pacalo]

86. Well, to be fair, our country's reputation for integrity & principle has suffered a lot

since SCOTUS/Bush/Cheney introduced us to the Twilight Zone-ish "up is down" mentality. I could understand how they'd worry.

[Eikers]

104. Do you have a link to this article?

I have read the three articles on vg.no and I have not seen any remarks on shots being fired. What am I missing?

[that_norwegian_guy]

113. You are the liar

For your information, there has been no reports in Norwegian media about shots being fired. Also, I have googled Larsgard, and I can't find anything that would indicate he has any sort of criminal intent about anything, so if anyone is lying, it's you. The only things I have found are information about him being bullied at school to the extent that he received monetary compensation and decided to move to the US to escape his tormentors, as well as information about the assault on him in Chicago.

[cocernedinaz]

116. LYING????

type in his name again. i found info such as.... stalking, threatening, anthrax case, etc. and yes i will quote of an article posted YESTERDAY.... 'LARS FARM ROLLED DOWN THW WINDOW. THE INCENTIVE AGAINST SHOTGUNS MOTHER AND SON. SO I HEAR A BANG, THEN I SEE BLOOD SPURT OUT THE STEERING WHEEL AND DASHBOARD. EXPLAINS JOHN CHRISTOPHER"


ABSOLUTE LIE. NO SHOTS WERE FIRED. THATS RIDICULOUS!!!!!

[that_norwegian_guy]

118. Sources, please?

Yes, he allegedly stalked a girl, but he claims he was jogging. This happened in Chicago. He was never convicted, and therefore you have no basis to say he has been stalking anyone. Unless you're a fan of the "guilty until proven innocent" concept.

Now, point two, what you refer to as the "anthrax case". I presume you are referring to the fact that he was kicked out of the University of Mobile, Alabama. He was kicked out simply because he was a foreigner studying biochemistry, and was thusly a suspected terrorist. Makes sense, doesn't it? A Norwegian studying biochemistry in Alabama after 9/11 - there is no other conclusion, he must be a evil terrorist! Again, no conviction, just unfounded allegations.

Now for your quote - it makes no sense what so ever. I mean, "THE INCENTIVE AGAINST SHOTGUNS MOTHER AND SON" - can you please explain to me what this sentence means? And most importantly, you need to provide a source for this quote, because if you don't, it's completely worthless.

[cocernedinaz]

119. quote.

that was s direct quote from the paper. it was put on vg.vo

[that_norwegian_guy]

122. Lost in translation

Well, important information has then been lost in translation (presumably Google Translate), because none of the major Norwegian media channels (including NRK.no, Dagbladet, VG or Aftenposten) have reported anything about shots being fired or shotguns or anything. I am presuming that the word Norwegian word 'hagle', which means both "hail" (as in hailstorm) and "shotgun" has been mistranslated or put out of context by Google Translate. In other words, you need to think more critically about your so-called sources.

[Eikers]

123. You have quoted an automatic translation of the article, right?

I found a passage in a VG article that sort of matches your quote. The original reads:

"Larsgard har rullet ned vinduet. Skjellsordene hagler mot mor og sønn.

Ingen av dem merker at Mendoza nærmer seg.

- Så hører jeg et smell, og så ser jeg at blodet spruter utover rattet og dashbordet. Han har slått meg med knyttneven i nesen slik at den knekker, forklarer John Kristoffer."

The Google translator creates this faulty translation:

"Lars Farm has rolled down the window. The invective against shotguns mother and son.

None of them notice that Mendoza is approaching.

- So I hear a bang, and then I see the blood spurt out the steering wheel and dashboard. He has struck me with his fist in the nose so that it breaks, explains John Christopher."

The first paragraph should read more like: "Larsgard has rolled down the window. Curses hail against mother and son."
Honest mistake since the norwegian words for hail and shotgun are quite similar.

[cocernedinaz]

124. makes sense

ok my appology for misinterperting that..thats just how i read it.

[karynnj]

211. Could it be that he was following either a faulty GPS system that

did not know it was one way or, similarly, directions that had that flaw?

[Son of Gob]

221. I don't think that was problem, it being closed and full of people was the issue.

[vaberella]

82. The language is a bit hyperbolic but it's a good point.

This nation is uncharacteristically becoming more and more fascist. I do feel that there should have been more of a ticket. But to put the kid in prison for 7 months? That is some shit.

[cocernedinaz]

84. 7months too little

from my understanding, he came within a foot or 2 from running down children then sped off and again came within feet of running down other ppl. idk i hope all ppl on here who believe all this media etc can actually google all the info for themselves and get the facts. thats all

[Son of Gob]

87. No, 7 years

Read downthread, he was sentenced to more than 7 years. A lot more to this story then what's in the article from Norway.

[cocernedinaz]

88. oh ya

absolutely way more to the story.....i will try and post info as i get it

[vaberella]

89. Oh Jesus Christ. For what?!

What the fuck is that...that is out of order.

[cocernedinaz]

90. what?

[Son of Gob]

91. I'm not sure

Much more to the story we haven't heard yet.

[4th law of robotics]

39. Putting people on trial for reckless driving makes us exactly like Nazi germany

why do you think they built the autobahn? Exactly! To trick foreigners in to committing traffic violations so they could be sent to jail for 5 years. Muwhahahahahahaha!

[orwell]

2. Welcome to Arizona...

...please enjoy your stay.

I am so glad I promised to never set foot in that state after the Immigration Bill fiasco.

Finger-waggin' Jan, lax gun laws even after the Giffords shooting, SB1070, Sheriff Joe, John McCain...you can have it...

[libinnyandia]

4. Global climate change may make it uninhabitable.

[quakerboy]

45. "make it uninhabitable"?

[libinnyandia]

47. Even higher temperatures, much less water available.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. I vowed never to go back after I attended a Grateful Dead show in '93(?)....

"Sheriff Joe" had packs of his goons roaming the outdoor venue during the show snatching people out of the concert for smoking a joint. Pigs.

[blueamy66]

130. I'm stuck here for a while

can't wait to get the heck outta here

[virgogal]

3. Why no full name? It would be a public record. Just curious.

[Art_from_Ark]

11. I agree-- a full name would be needed for verification

[Lars77]

27. I didn´t bother putting in the full name, its in the link.

Didnt think anyone here would really bother digging.

[Saving Hawaii]

24. Seems like the translation dropped the full name.

It's John Kristoffer Larsgard.

I'd appreciate it if somebody could find some better info on this story. A Norwegian acquaintance was asking about it recently and I couldn't find anything directly related on Google. There's some court history from an unrelated case, but nothing specifically about or relevant to this.

[Solmiget]

35. FB Group - Free John Kristoffer larsgard

https://www.facebook.com/groups/318431374895143/

I'm horrified of this situation I've started a group for you and I hope it may help

Regards solfrid

[sulphurdunn]

5. When you say Arizona justice

think Corrections Corporation of America (CCA)

[Mopar151]

6. Ticket for driving to endanger, and a brain transplant

Wrong way on a one way street, closed to traffic and full of people. Then fluster 'cuz there a bunch of very irate people (which would include me, If I was there) are mad at you for same, and start to crash into stuff (like the curb)

5 years is a crazy sentence, and no doubt he was "overcharged" - but he and Mom need some real driver training, and some therapy for panic disorders.

[tommy777]

7. His full name is in the article

John Kristoffer Larsgard (32)

Sounds absolutely nuts.

[lorddave999]

8. This happened?

My fiancee actually brought this to my attention. Posted in a usually credible newspaper online she thought it was really odd.
So I went and did some checking...

Can't find anything. Seriously, I can't find any mention of anything happening in Winslow, AZ. I've checked all the local papers I can find and the best I found was a mention of the street fair starting up again on Saturday, September 24 (the article was dated the 21st).

Can anyone find anything about this from the US side?

In fact...
This is the ONLY thing I can find:
http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/illinois/ilndce/1:2002cv04282/122787/117/0.pdf?1311065302

[Angry Dragon]

9. I salute our Police State

[Logical]

21. Wat do you mean?

[Angry Dragon]

64. What i mean is that the police for the most part

think they are above the law and above the people they are sworn to protect.

[Node]

153. You are a mistaken Angry Dragon

There are thousands of law enforcement agencies in the US, and I highly doubt any of them require their officers to swear to protect anyone. They are generally encouraged to keep the peace, and enforce laws - at their discretion. Hence the term; Peace Officer.

I believe it was the supreme court that ruled police have no legal duty to protect people, and cannot be sued for failing to come to someones aid. May not be the exact wording, but was to that effect.

[William769]

154. Retired law enforcement here.

Our motto was to serve and protect. And thats exactly what we did.

[Node]

159. Should have said 'most' instead of 'any'

"WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

I should have known as soon as I said 'any' that it would get me into trouble. Was it a smaller agency? My bias says this might be more the case in smaller towns where there's more of a sense of community.

[William769]

163. Florida Highway Patrol.

I would also add that by enforcing the laws, by definition is protecting the general public.

In the specific case you mention has no bearing whatsoever on Law Enforcement in general. If you want to argue case law I suggest you bring a lawyer with you.

Also if you read the whole article instead of picking out one part of it, you might understand it a little better.

Just saying.

[rug]

10. How is he being sentenced? Was there a trial or a plea?

[DirkGently]

12. Interesting. The jogging assaulters claim he was in Chicago stalking their teen daughter.

Looks like he's sued them for head and neck pain.

http://www.abisoft.org/opinions/2011/1_02-cv-04282_20110718.pdf

Couldn't find any U.S. stuff on his arrest for the driving situation. Which is horrible, if true.

[msanthrope]

23. Apparently he was kicked from the University of Alabama, then followed student to Illinois.

His mother tried to file suit against the University.

The mother also has a current civil rights suit in AZ.

[Lars77]

28. Interesting. The guy may have had some issues. But if this is true its crazy. Keep digging :)

[dixiegrrrrl]

135. U of Mobile, actually, which is a Baptist affiliated school.

[msanthrope]

137. Thank you...this guy is a bit creepy, IMHO. nt

[HiPointDem]

26. where do you get the "teen"?

[DirkGently]

60. Page 6 of the Memorandum Opinion & Order.

[msanthrope]

62. Thank you. nt

[Son of Gob]

13. If anybody can find a link to what actually happened

That would be great.

[tommy777]

15. Very strange

ObviousLy, the biggest newspapers in Norway are all over this and have reporters in Winslow.

But like others, I can't find anything about this case on Google. Pretty disturbing that there's no US press on it and the guy gets his sentence tomorrow..

[Ruby the Liberal]

17. Is it possible that he is here under a different name?

There is a mention of his mother - could he be under her last name (if different)?

[msanthrope]

22. No--Liv Larsgard is his mother, has already filed suit.

This all smells like bovine fecal matter to me, frankly.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. What a horrible story.

[Snake Alchemist]

19. "It turns out that the angry witnesses are all related or friends"

What kind of festival is this where everyone is related?

[msanthrope]

29. Well, when you plow into a family eating hot dogs at a Festival, it isn't surprising that

your complaining witnesses are all related.....

[Lars77]

31. Except that he did not plow into them

[Asniels]

30. Theres no info in norwegian papers

And we shouldnt trust norwegian journalism to keep digging here. They kind of give up after a few days. But this is the first i've read about this. It doesnt seem real. Who gets put in jail for poor driving? Unless you actually hurt someone?

[Lars77]

32. Assualt with a deadly weapon. The weapon is the car.

[Asniels]

33. D.A Candelaria says he has never seen this kind of case in AZ before..whats going on?

And can anyone please explain why he's been in jail for a year, and still havent been in court?

[ThwiX]

34. Contact?

Can anybody please contact some newspapers and tell them about this? We need to make people know this!!

[Lars77]

36. There might be stuff we don´t know, this guy has been in trouble before apparently.

But his treatment in this particular case seems really excessive. Still no word on his sentencing.

[Courtesy Flush]

40. This reads like a forwarded email from my aunt

Expect it to be debunked by Snopes.

[that_norwegian_guy]

129. It's not an email from your aunt

It is all to real. And it makes me embarrassed to even be a member of the same species as the people who sent this guy down the river.

[treestar]

187. Are you my cousin?

[lorddave999]

41. Found something...

http://www.yasni.com/ext.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Faptekars.com%2FPhone-number%2Ffranklin-county-child-support-enforcement-agency-phone-numbers%2F&name=John+K+Larsgard&cat=other&showads=1

It's not much but it looks like he was arrested during that time frame. "John Larsgard, 32, four counts of. attempted first degree murder and eight counts of aggravated."

In fact, Liv Larsgard wasn't arrested, which makes me think that this story isn't as accurate as we'd like.

Charging him with first degree murder usually means they have a good reason for it. But I'll keep hunting.

-The video seems legitimate. Why he was charged with first degree murder is beyond me though. It looks to me like they didn't block off the one way street with "road closed" signs and he went up one. Honest mistake. No one was injured but everyone surrounded him with angry words. Very odd indeed.

[Lars77]

43. Hm must have gotten lost in translation. There are definately some questionmarks here.

But the story is not totally fake as some people here seem to believe after a quick glance.

[msanthrope]

63. He's been here for 10 years, plus, apparently....nt

[vaberella]

95. That means nothing.

My mother has been here for over 30 years and still has a strong Haitian accent--- most people think she's new. And she still gets confused in her words or understanding of things. For instance instead of saying coward she says carrot. She finds english confusing.

I wouldn't be surprised if there may be some difficulties. And each state different laws. I remember when my sister was in New Jersey and people were crazy honking her and then we found out that it was okay to turn on red on the right lane. However...it's illegal to do that in New York under any circumstances.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

42. There are some states I will not travel to or thru. Az is top of the list. n/t

[Eikers]

48. New article on vg.no today

The Norwegian newspaper VG follows up this case today with an interview with his mother. They also broadcast live video from court as I write this. So for those of you who don't believe this story to be real, I just want to say that this is going on right now. I would however point out that the initial translation in this thread is not really a translation of the original article but rather a resume of the story. The actual article is far more detailed and professionally fashioned.

I believe that the current media interest is founded on two things: The rather unreal nature of the story combined with the absence of local media coverage - sort of implying that this is nothing out of the ordinary - just a foreign troublemaker.

The more I read the more I am amazed. I just heard on the webcast one of the witnesses demand the judge for maximum penalty because she felt that the defendant had no regard for the lives of others. I find it rather shocking to make a claim for decades of imprisonment in a case were nobody really got hurt.

Link to the second article:

[link:http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10073420|

[Eikers]

51. 7,5 years

That was the verdict.
Main witness M. Mendoza left the courtroom in protest and showed the defendant the finger on his way out as the defendant stated that it was because he was punched in the face that he panicked and drove off.

Now I am shocked! I really hope there is a possibility for appeal to an higher court. If this stands there's no way I'll be going on vacation in the US just for the fear of making a wrong turn at the wrong place at the wrong time or any other mishap for that matter.

[Lars77]

49. He got 7,5 years in jail minus the 230 days he´s spent already.

Apprently tempers were quite high in the courtroom sometimes.

When Larsgard said he would have calmed down if Mendoza had talked to him in a normal way instead of punching him in the face, breaking his nose, Mendoza got up and left to courtroom, FLIPPING HIM OFF as he walked out.

One of the witnesses also claimed that Larsgard had screamed that he would kill everyone after he had his nose broken, when Larsgard denied it another witness left the courtroom angry.


This guy has been in trouble before, apparently he was evicted from the university because he was deemed a threat to his fellow students and faculty members. So he might have some anger issues.


The case still remains though - he will be in jail for 7,5 years in a case where no-one were injured except that he ran over the toe of a woman who was in the group surrounding his car.


I bet they will start with the lawsuits now, poor bastard.

[lorddave999]

50. :(

Yeah. The lack of local coverage really bothers me. There was never any coverage of this at all. You'd think it would at least make the local paper " Crazy Norwegian Tries to kill hundreds!" or something. It's like the local county is trying to cover it up.

[msanthrope]

61. Um..as I noted upthread...his mom is filing a lawsuit.

Not the victims, at least, yet.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

105. What does 7,5 years mean?

[BigLoser]

110. Sevn and a half (7.5)

They use commas the way we use periods in Norway. If that was a serious question?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

112. It was a serious question.

I didn't know that. Interesting.

[Lars77]

204. Seven and a half

[Nor_wegian]

65. Trigger happy, brainless Americans..

Trigger happy, brainless Americans.. Why i am not surprised? Of course thats if the news i have seen is true. But like i said, i would not be surprised by how ignorent and dumb some Amercicans are.. Dont get me wrong, we got dumb Norwegians as well, but not on this level. By far! Is America the new Russia? The only difference would be a black eye and a broken arm. Before i was afraid to visit Russia, because of the corrupt system, now i am beginning to think the same about the US.

Please forgive my bad English, i am a NORWEGIAN!

[Ruby the Liberal]

66. Hello and welcome to DU.

I was just commenting to some peers that I don't know what this is even all about. We are happy that you all have joined us, but have yet to understand what happened.

Please do not insult the good members of this community. We cannot help if the media is not covering this, and I can assure you that we are as interested as you all are in finding out what happened here. What we cannot do is read minds.

[Nor_wegian]

68. Angermanagment

Hi.

I apologize for my bad manors, but i still mean what i said. I dont mean Americans in general, but i mean the people that alows these things to happen. The "justice" system. Weither they are from Norway og the US or any other country for that matter.

[Ruby the Liberal]

72. I understand.

Here, we are surprised that you would only sentence a man to 21 years in prison for killing 77 of your countrymen, yet the Norse people are so calm about the proceedings. Here there would have been riots and people demanding the death penalty.

Please do keep us informed as to what you are hearing about this case, and the US members here will be adding to this topic as news is given us about it.

[cocernedinaz]

74. please

we will be proving that JOHN LARSGARD has serious mental issues. please keep checking back and following us on here. thanks

[Ruby the Liberal]

76. Trust me, y'all have my undivided attention.

Zero coverage in the US media and a dozen new members here to talk about this case? I assure you, I am intrigued.

Welcome to DU as well.

[cocernedinaz]

78. uh...

we are a very small community and honestly dont even have a local paper or a news channel. justice for this community was somewhat done. from what i hear, alot of witnesssess etc in courtroom today. maybe they all didnt feel a need for so much chaos. idk. but i do know that this story has been twisted tremendously

[cocernedinaz]

79. am i right???

half of the articles have his name wrong, his age wrong etc. sad that OTHER PEOPLE LIE to make THEMSELVES LOOK BETTER> sad. if youre going to post shit, get the FACTS STRAIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! am i right?

[Ruby the Liberal]

80. Slick, you need to calm down, ok?

I welcomed one member and have received 3 outbursts from you in response to that, which is completely uncalled for.

[cocernedinaz]

81. ok

not outburts, im just trying to speak what ive heard about this case and defend our town. sorry

[Ruby the Liberal]

83. Understood.

No one on this site is responsible for what has happened, or what is now happening. Just hang back and talk about the case with us, don't blame anyone here for being liable for it.

[Node]

157. Your town sounds like it needs defending

Apparently it's the kind of place where people will assault travelers without even knowing what's going on.

[cocernedinaz]

162. lastly

our town did not assult this traveler. he aksked for directions, still went the wrong way then got mad and threatened to kill bystandards. there will be evidence from our side posted by next week. after that, i will come back on here and see what u all think then ok? i cant prove anything and obviously cant convince anyone that im in disbelief from this. Honestly, im enjoying hearing everyones opinions etc which they have a right to give. i will let you know when i get the info to post. thank u

[msanthrope]

166. Please do post it. As I note downthread, this man's claims smell like bovine fecal matter.

I'd be interested in seeing his charge sheet, any tox report, and witnesses from the first car crash.....

[cocernedinaz]

240. ARIZONA

part of story came out today on AZCENTRAL.com and the arizonarepublic newspaper. i dont have a link but please read... more posted as soon as we get it....thanks

[William769]

167. You know something your being down right rude.

I suggest you tone it down or take your tripe elsewhere.

That kind of commentary is not appreciated here.

[Lars77]

92. Breivik will be in for life. International reporters know this but it makes for a good story.

They keep reporting it, but its a lie. ABB will be in for life regardless if he is found to be insane or not. There are laws which say that one can be held indefintely if one is a danger to society.

International media just dont report this because they seem to think its funny to make us all look like naive idiots in a time of crisis.

[Ruby the Liberal]

179. Hi Lars,

Thats not the impression I am getting from US media.

It is rather impressive how the Norwegians are handling this trial. Very dignified and professional. Or at least that is how I am hearing about it. I can't speak for our more right wing "media" outlets. They are probably calling you all communists for even bothering with a trial. Easy enough to avoid them though.

Good to see you.

Didn't know you were going to bring so many friends - we will call down for another keg.

[Lars77]

203. Yeah i was surprised, maybe its because this is the only US website where this case is brought up

If i knew it was this big i would have spent som more time on the translation. Especially since it was copied to CNN. But oh well

[dixiegrrrrl]

208. The story is all over the web

including these discussion sites:

http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2012/04/how-do-we-free-john-larsgard-az-jail
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/winslow-az/TK52TC54F8HJRV9AQ
http://facepunch.com/threads/1179653
and google has a bunch of linksif you use this: john kristoffer larsgard

BUT
no NEWS stories show up on google.

[pacalo]

69. I'd like to echo what Ruby the Liberal wrote.

There is a terms of service (TOS) here at DU to which we strictly adhere. Please take an opportunity to read it. We're a community-monitored site & one of the TOS rules is no name-calling & we like to maintain a civil atmosphere, as well.

This is a very interesting case that I'm just now learning about. You won't come across any U.S. website that is more passionate about truth & justice than DU. Just no derrogatory generalizations about our country.

Welcome to DU, Nor_wegian!

[Nor_wegian]

96. thank you.

Thank you for welcoming me. I appreciate it!

I will behave in the future.

About the ABB i can just quote Lars77: They keep reporting it, but its a lie. ABB will be in for life regardless if he is found to be insane or not. There are laws which say that one can be held indefintely if one is a danger to society.

International media just dont report this because they seem to think its funny to make us all look like naive idiots in a time of crisis.

Back to the arrested norwegian:

Its obvious that we get served different sides of the story.. It would be great to get the facts on the table? Anyone?

[BigLoser]

97. I agree – Facts on the table

There seems to be no one who can shed any light on the real evidence here. Is it just testimony from witnesses that were there and upset at the defendant? Sounds like this is a small town and the case should have been moved outside this town so he could have gotten a fair trial. I can understand how he could of upset a lot of people here with his actions, but seven years for not being so smart. He was also a victim and it seems like the guy who struck him was also the prosecutions main witness. This seems wrong.

[Node]

158. About that "truth and justice" vs derogatory generalizations thing

I'm a USian with more than a few decades under my belt, who's lived in various parts of the US. Frankly, there are many derogatory generalizations one could make that would be entirely true and valid. While Nor_wegian was speaking far too broadly with his "stupid americans", there are in fact, many stupid Americans. And smart ones. There are also many different local/regional cultures that, um, encourage and reward less than optimal behavior.

This is my first hour on DU, and really have no idea what kind of site this is. Reddit is my usual hangout, and mostly because of the commenting system, and the interesting links. The user base has devolved over the years, but there are ways to deal with that.

Anyway, will go read the TOS to see what kind of place this is.

[obamanut2012]

210. Where was a gun used in this case?

[cocernedinaz]

70. why talk crap? the US did nothing. he did

first of all, i am from winslow and know whats going on. this "media" has twisted this story beyond measures. Larsgard was a threat to Winslow, was under the influence of pain pills and went ballistic. Shameful to the US? HE is shameful to the US NOT OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM. 7.5 years wasnt good enough for the crime he committed. this went to JURY and if it was so innocent then they wouldnt have found him GUILTY... This little community has been flipped upside down due to his actions. we will be finding a way to clarify all this. it is all public records so feel free to google JOHN K LARSGARD and find out for yourself what kind of person he truly is.

[BigLoser]

85. So tell us the facts on record

Last edited Wed Apr 25, 2012, 06:23 AM - Edit history (1)

Was there a toxicology report that showed what medication he was on. What is the real story? were you there? do you know the victims? are you related? Tell us your side, Please!

[Lars77]

93. I am very open to the idea that this case was presented as one-sided

However, i am also aware that when people get riled up in small towns they can turn on someone pretty quickly.
The guy has a history of stupid behaviour, thats for sure.

Still, 7,5 years in jail for stopping a car in the vicinity of some children and tunning over the toe of a person mobbing your car seems pretty nuts to me.

[TheMathia]

94. JOIN THE SUPPORT MOVEMENT FOR LARS KRISTOFFER!

We've created a support movement (first as an facebook event).
Please join to help us free Lars Kristoffer! Text in english aswell!

http://www.facebook.com/events/330304800368639/

Thank you very much indeed!

[BigLoser]

98. I have posted a copy of Lars77 story on CNN iReport

I have posted a copy of Lars77 story on CNN iReport in a hope to draw more attention to this story and get bigger media groups to investigate what has happened. Here is a link and I hope it gets spread around so it gets more attention.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-780782

[dems_rightnow]

99. It has not escaped notice

That you and the post above you are brand new accounts. It appears that accounts are being created to support Lars. This is quite interesting. Lars? Is that you?

OK, upon further review, a minimum of 5 new accounts to support the accused. Good stuff.

[BigLoser]

101. I am not Lars77

I am an American living in Norway. The Norwegians at my work have brought this story to my attention. They showed me the article in VG.no a Norwegian Paper here so I did a Google search and this is the only English website with info about this case. I find the whole thing very strange. I would like to defend my country and explain how this could happen. I keep thinking there has to more to this story. So yes I created an account here just to post reply but I am not the one who started it.

[dems_rightnow]

102. Sorry, did not mean to suggest the you were the OP.

I was thinking more like the accused or close family.

Regardless, there are a bunch of brand new ID's being created to show support.

[terjemann]

144. It's not strange at all

This case provokes a lot of norwegians. USA is a country I have lots of respect for. But this trial reminds me of a bananarepublic. Its not so important that the prisoner is a norwegian. The important thing is that the penalty is crazy.Another thing is that he seemed judged even before he met at trial.

I have always believed that USA fought for Justice, Democracy and other good values. This case makes me wonder.

[Node]

164. New Account Alert!

I too, just created a new account. There was a link on reddit to this thread/story and I came to check it out. Then I ended up wanting to reply to some clueless comment, and created an account to do so. I still don't know any solid facts about what happened that day, but it sounds weird so far.

Did he stumble into some clannish or ethnic neighborhood and get attacked for being "other"? Or did he lose it and "plough recklessly through the crowd" with no regard for anyone in his way? From the articles and stories I've seen, there's no way to tell.

Reddit post below.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/sqiy1/norwegian_man_took_a_wrong_turn_and_is_sentenced/

[Lars77]

106. Do you think im a propagandist? I have said there might be more to this case than we know.

Knock off the conspiracy theories.

If you think i have created duplicate accounts, contact the moderators.

[dems_rightnow]

127. Again, I really didn't mean to refer to you.

I was referring to the Lars in the story.

But there's no denying what's going on here. Many ID's are being created for the sole purpose of commenting on this story. On both sides. I do suspect that these people have a vested interest in it.

Also- check out the ENOURMOUS number of page views vs. even more popular stories.

[Lars77]

139. Oh sorry

It surprised me, it makes this case even weirder. I just dont understand how he allegedly could have gone totally nuts with a car and only run over one persons toe.

It´s really strange.

[Lars77]

107. I merely quickly translated that story from VG.

It is only one side of a really odd story, not sure that was a good idea.

[BigLoser]

109. But that's the point — Debunk

My hope is we find out the rest of the story or we find out how terrible and unjust some parts of the U.S. are! No one seems to have any contradicting facts to what VG has reported other than the mother wasn't arrested but briefly in custody.

[Lars77]

111. True. His previous history raises some question marks, but this case just seems really weird to me.

[terjemann]

100. Lets try to sort out the facts..

1. The driver and his mother drove the car the wrong way in a oneway street.

2. A shouting crowd got angry and started to track him down.

3. The driver got scared and started to move the car backwards, and he hits someones foot. The speed of the car was very low.

4. One of the citizens hits the driver in the face.

5. The driver and his mother calls 911

Seriously, the driver should be fined. I would have felt embarassed if i lived in this area. USA is not North Korea.

[cocernedinaz]

115. facts

facts that i know:
1. asked for directions then went against them
2. once someone else said youre going the wrong way, he make a threatening jester and comment
3. popped his back tired from the speed and force backing up towards a local business
4. went driving crazy, came back to where he asked for directions from.
5. got punched, because he came within feet of backing into a family
6. thru car in gear after saying "fuck u" to a crowd and came towards them
7 came within feet then thru car in reverse again. hit a person, not just the toe, this person fell to ground. 2 broken ribs and shoulder pain,
8. took off again, hit cement block, lost bumper AND broke nose
9. got arrested


i have seen incident reports on this man online as well. all public information. if i can google it and find it, then anyone can. lol

[BigLoser]

117. If these are the facts?

he still doesn't deserve 7.5 years in jail. At the most 6 months and if first time offense a warning with no time served.

[cocernedinaz]

121. closing

i would to state that IF this guy is sooooo innocent why did a GRAND JURY who was there hearing testimonies etc..... find him guilty? it is ignorant for anyone to belive any of these scenarios when a COURT OF LAW gave him 7.5 years based ON THE FACTS IN THIS CASE!!!!!

[rotta]

125. You are good at discrediting yourself

8. Lost bumper

I can see both bumpers attached to the car when he is arrested. To me, this indicates that you are a liar!

Can you come up with the incident reports you fund on google? If not you should cralw down into the troll hole you came from.

[Nor_wegian]

126. cocernedinaz: learn how to google

If you call this facts i suggest you learn how to google. A norwegian newspaper (www.vg.no) actually went to the US and was in the jury the day he was sentenced. The highlight of the case can be read here: http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10073434 - unfortunately it is in norwegian, but you can also se the vg.no do interviews before and after the trial here http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10050036 - most of this is in English.

Poor dude.. This isnt right..

[cocernedinaz]

128. fact is fact

the facts are facts... he was found guilty on 7 counts of aggravated assult!!!!!!! if he was so innocent, he would have walked away. you are only getting one side and eventually, the facts from the US will be proven as well. everyone on here has their own beliefs and viewpoints(and i respect that) but all im saying is that no judge would convict someone without probable cause. thats all.

[BigLoser]

131. Not in a small town

were most people know each other it would be very hard to get a fair trial this case should have been tried in another town. The lawyer should have ask for a change of venue and if he was denied it's grounds for an appeal.

[cocernedinaz]

133. it was

it was sent to another town. not a local judge, a county judge.

[Nor_wegian]

132. the facts are facts...?

cocernedinaz:

I think this speaks for itself - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barry-scheck/innocent-but-executed_b_272327.html - and believe me, he isnt the first, and obviously not the last.

So i guess the lesson here is: the facts are not always the facts..

[that_norwegian_guy]

134. Even if the judge has personal motivations?

You seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that even an innocent man/woman can be sentenced through an unfair trial, such as this one. The fact that your judges run for elections makes the whole judicial system politically biased - and the fact that the judge in this case, John Lamb, is running for re-election, raises the question: Did he sentence Larsgard to prove a point, namely that he is tough on crime?

[cocernedinaz]

136. opinion

it wasnt up to the judge tho to call the verdict. the jury did. the judge just offered the sentence. title state that he couldve got 35 years and got 7.5 so really, doesnt appear to me to be bias at all.

[terjemann]

146. Michael Mendoza

Is that your name ?

[kentuck]

103. First they came for the Norwegian...

and then they came for me...

[UnrepentantLiberal]

108. The people of Winslow have never been fond of Norwegians.

It's a well known fact.

[MrScorpio]

114. This man could possible be the most unluckiest man on the face of the Earth nt

[Hello_USA]

138. About the "Expelled from University of South Alabama"

Some of you are interested in the case of Larsgard being expelled from University of South Alabama. Maybe someone already posted something on this, then have me excused. Hence, you may read about it in the following article. (its in Norwegian - but GTranslate will do : http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2001/10/12/287340.html

Looks like he did nothing wrong except being in America at the wrong time

[Lars77]

140. I cant find the source right now but apparently he was kicked out for threats against faculty or..

something like that. But he sued the school and called the media telling his side of the story.

I am very skeptical about this guy, also because the Norwegian foreign office have refused to give any help in the matter. That is unusual i think.

[dems_rightnow]

141. Thanks for creating this ID

To tell us about it.

[Nor_wegian]

142. this keeps getting better and better..

The school kicked him out because they ment that he could be a terrorist! I am not kidding. They could not have any top of the class foreign students studying biochemistry. They say it is because of 9.11 - I used google translate to quote the President in ANSA (Association for Norwegian Students Abroad) - QUOTE "This is a terrible thing, and it touches all who want to study abroad. Larsgård has had no opportunity to explain himself, and he gets no help, says Nerheim. ANSA is afraid of what might happen if this matter is not solved."

I am gonna say it like Homer.. Jeeeebus!

[Eikers]

143. Newspaper articles from 2001 on Larsgard being suspended from University

Reference to this story has been made earlier in this thread so I'll just add these links before they drown in the echoes on the internet.

Both articles contain interviews with Larsgard on the incident. (Edit: My thread list was not up to date so I didn't see the similar post above, sorry!)
10 days after the 9/11 terrorist attack, the then 22-years old bioengineering student gets accused of being a potential terrorist and is suspended from his studies at the University of South Alabama. Larsgard later sued the university, so he could continue his studies at another U.S. university.

[link:http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http://old.aftenposten.no/jobb/article224761.ece| [link:http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2001/10/12/287340.html|

[dems_rightnow]

147. Thank you for creating this ID to discuss this

It's quite welcome.

[Bota]

145. Interesting

First of all, thanks for good discussions. I'm never active in forums like this, but this case really got to me, and good to see discussions without too much 'those american idiots' etc.

I would very much learn more about this as I've gotten most of my knowledge from Norwegian Newspapers. Based on the arcticles, I'm totally shocked, the whole thing seems unreal. It is like a move about some evil small-town and the poor stranger. cocernedinaz - I appriciate that you are trying to tell the other side of the story, but I have to say it doesn't help much. You have seen and will post public documents that will enlighten us, and prove that he at least deserve 7.5 years, but where are the docs. Only thing I've seen is something that looks like small-town gossip and things that is a result of wrong translation.

At this point I thrust Norwegian media more than you (even though I'm generally sceptical). However, VG (largest paper in Norway) has a lot to loose, if the story don't hold at all. You very rarely see total nonesense being printed, at least when it comes to facts which could easily be proven wrong. Then the journalist responsible would probably get fired.

I followed the sentence yesterday, where both John, his mother, and several witnesses could speak, and it was nothing there that pointed towards an intention to kill somebody. The whole thing totally lacked substance with the witnesses basically saying he was going to kill them, and that their children had changed behaviour and was traumatized, without any real evidence or explonation. I found John's explonation very sensible (but that's maybe because I only have some media arcticles to rely on)

We don't have a lot of facts, but this should be a few that shouldn't be wrong:
* The only one with sever damages was John, all other people got away (exept the toe). If there were any major damages, we would have known by now I would think. And local media would have covered it.
* The motive for going up that street was purely to get his stuff from this Auto shop to start with.
* At some point John had to go into panic mode - most likely after getting beaten up (this is an assumption, but I would panic after that)
* He was with his 68 year mom - I would protect her if I thought she was in danger and try to drive off.
* His mom, even though sitting beside him, walks free without charges.
* He drove off, probably breaking several traffic rules, but called 911 as soon as he got away.
* Main witnesses in the trial was related in some way (this is from Norwegian Media, but also easy to prove wrong, so I doubt it is), and the main witness was the same guy that punshed him (he would probably get problems if John was proven not guilty)

It is extremely hard for me, with the current info, to believe that this guy did anything other than to drive the wrong way, get extremely scarred , and probably put the public in danger as a result. If he wanted to hurt somebody, he would have done it. It should not be that difficult, when you have a lot of people around you.

It is almost like I hope we can get some info that justify 7.5 years in jail, because I hate injustice like it seems now. Major injustice. I think I know small towns like this better than most, and it does not surprise me hearing about how people react (even though it seems insane to me). However, what is really surprises me is the way the police and legal system have handled it.

[dems_rightnow]

148. Thanks for creating this ID

It adds most valuable input.

[msanthrope]

149. 7 counts of ag assault while driving under the influence will get you 7 .5 years in jail.

If you read through the thread, a poster from Winslow claims he was on pain pills.

If that is true, that he was on pain meds while he was driving, that would explain the accident that apparently totalled his first car, and why he left the hospital, rented a car, and then went looking to find his stuff at the wrecked car--hospitals here test you for driving under the influence, and he might have been trying to get out of Dodge before he was caught.

Also on this thread, you will find a civil lawsuit in which Mr. Larsgard claims he is in extreme pain, and, in fact, does take pain medication.

I'd like to see the documents of the case. Apparently Mrs. Larsgard was charged, but I do not knwo the current status of those charges. She has filed a civil lawsuit in this matter.

[terjemann]

150. If he was on painpills

Why wasn't that a huge point in the trial?

I bet there are no evidence on this "painkiller-theory"...

[dems_rightnow]

151. Thanks for creating this ID and weighing in.

We need lots of original unbiased thoughts on this.

Look forward to many more.

[wingzeroday]

156. :]

lol


http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Winslow,_Arizona&action=history

[William769]

155. In America we don't drink & drive.

We also don't pop pills & drive either unless we want to suffer the consequences.

[Luce Nox]

178. I'm not sure this kind of speculation is helpful

Seeing the actual charges and court transcripts would certainly shed some light on this whole thing. But what's your point exactly? He got 7.5 years for a DUI? I don't think that was even one of the charges. I don't think there's any debate about the fact that he did get punched and there was an angry and likely intoxicated mob gathering around the vehicle. If I had my 68 year old mom in the car with me I would've done much the same thing: try to get the **** out of Dodge.. erm Winslow =)

[Lars77]

226. Funny i lived in Kentucky for a while. Seemed like that was the only thing people had to do.

[William769]

227. What does Kentucky have to do with this.

This is a bullshit story, with people adding to that story that who apparently have no idea what they are talking about just to keep the bullshit alive. Yes I call bullshit when I see it.

Now if you want to region bash thats your privilege, once again it adds nothing to this bullshit story. I lived in Miami for many years and dealt with the international crowd. I can tell you from first hand experience with the Norwegians I had the pleasure to meet would be mortified of whats going on in this thread. To bad the normal one's have the decency to not fall for this crap.

Have a great day!

[Lars77]

228. Kentucky is in America, ref your "In america we don´t drink and drive"

More seriously, you seem to know a lot more about this case than anyone here so why don´t you share with us why this is bullshit? Is it all made up?


Also, what is going on in this thread that would mortify "normal" Norwegians? I suppose i am not normal then?

[William769]

231. Use the whole quote. Just like your buddy here, it makes you look foolish.

It also does not help your case one bit. But I understand why you wouldn't.

[Luce Nox]

233. Now you're just being rude

I don't know Lars77 anymore than I know you. Besides the replies are linked to the original post, do we need to quote the whole thing to keep the conversation moving?

[William769]

235. As far as I am concerned the conversation is over.

Some of the allegations are totally false. Example being kicked out of school for being a terrorist.. When things like this get posted it means only one thing. BS. When someone posts something they better be able to back it up, because they will be called on it.

With my experience in law enforcement, with the facts that been been shown so far, he's lucky he only got 7.5 years.

[Luce Nox]

236. But that's exactly the problem

The *facts* presented so far are one sided, meaning from a Norwegian perspective. I am really wondering why there is nothing about this in the news here in the states that might shed some light or credibility or the opposite disputing what's out there now with facts and logic. From where I stand this entire story is sketchy from all sides and perspectives, as it's been presented so far. I think the majority of us just want some semblance of truth in this we can digest. Personally I am not satisfied that this man has really seen justice, not the way it should be in US at least.

Additionally I respect your opinion, and the service you have done, it can't be easy being out there in the chaos. And I'm sure you've seen too many times some story and the spin generated by any number of criminals. Most of us have not, but really it should not take a law enforcement agent background to discern between wrong and right.

[Lars77]

237. I don´t think you´ve read all my posts.

We have debunked his claim as to why he was kicked out of school, and i´ve said there might be more going on here than we are told.

You seem to believe that since i translated the first news article, i somehow am responsible for its content.

I really do not understand your angry reaction.

[BigLoser]

238. Good thing your out of the conversation

Because you weren't adding anything constructive, only your own bias opinion.
Your Logic:
Because certain facts are incorrect the whole story is B.S.

[Luce Nox]

229. Sorry but you are wrong

I'm not from Norway, I live in Chicago and I am mortified to what I perceive as blatant miscarriage of justice. This will not get us anywhere, without law and justice this country is already dead. If only more people could see that.. And regarding your comment that we don't drink/do drugs and drive here, not sure what you see, but I would think as a cop or ex-cop you should do this is way too common here.

[William769]

230. If you want to quote me fine but when you don't use the whole quote, it only looks bad on you.

The whole quote "In America we don't drink & drive. We also don't pop pills & drive either unless we want to suffer the consequences."

Ooops. See the difference? But I can understand why you would not use the whole quote. It doesn't fit with what your trying to accomplish here.

[Luce Nox]

232. You are right

I should have used the full quote. I'm not trying to hide anything, just trying to have a conversation. I assumed it goes without saying that drinking and pill popping and driving will have consequences. However, I did feel that your post last night regarding this was slightly derogatory, perhaps it was the way you phrased it, as if it never happens here. Language is tricky sometimes.

[Eikers]

241. No drinking and driving in Norway either for that matter...

Norwegian law state zero tolerance for this. Anybody learning to drive have heard this message several times from a police officer visiting their school.

[msanthrope]

161. It might have been....do you have any actual documentation from the trial?

The charge sheet, the witness statements, the tox report? Anything that indicates precisely what he was charged with?

As for painkillers, the suit he filed against the Chicago couple indicates that he was, indeed, on painkillers.

I would be interested to read the public documentation available.....in fact, I truly wonder why the Norwegian press has not found and published the court records.

[terjemann]

198. I have no reason to be bombastic

Even if he was drunk or drugged 7.5 years in prison is insane. If he was drugged it would have been discussed at the trail, and the norwegian paper would not have hesitated to tell the readers.

A receipt on painkillers is not an evidence.

[William769]

200. is it because your newspapers never get it wrong?

How's your red herring tasting these days?

[obamanut2012]

213. 7.5 years for seven counts of aggravated assault is not a harsh sentence

Especially if there was the underlying factor that he was on Oxy or some other medication, scripted or not.

He had been in the US for over ten years, so his original quite good English would be even better. There was no not understanding directions nor not being able to read road signs.

I would like to see the charge sheet and the tox reports, and any priors charge sheets.

The OP's info and the many new Norwegian posters are not presenting an unbiased account. Mr. Larsgard seems like a sketchy fellow to me, including his stalking incident and his being kicked out of the U of M for threatening faculty. Our Norwegian members are buying their own media's spin: white Northern Europeans are not kicked out of US universities for being "suspected terrorists." They are for threatening behavior, as well they should be.

Also, it is illegal to keep prisoners in restraints while in their cells unless they are a danger to themselves or an extreme danger to jail or prison personal. Even then, they are not kept in shackles and cuffs 24/7. Not even in Arizona.

Mr. Larsgard may be a legitimate victim, but we have no way of knowing that from the info we have. I agree with Msanthrope upthread and am skeptical to his side of the account. I would like to see more info first.

Also, I find it interesting that the Norwegian Consulate has given him zero help in this matter.

[Eikers]

242. Personally I'm not buying anything, merely referencing

I agree with you that there are many things that does not add up in this story. But that is what makes up the whole controversy, is it not?

Concerning the non-assistance from the Norwegian authorities; they usually never assist citizens on trial in a western country. The Ministry of foreign affairs will only follow up on cases in predefined countries where they don't think one can expect a fair trial.

[Bota]

152. If that is true...

I would agree that it makes more sense.

However, it has nothing to do with the first car - his mom was driving (again this according to her testemony).

Mr. Larsgard complained about pain and wanted pain killers due to a broken nose........the main witness is to blaim for that

The sentence should be pretty clear here - he got convicted of attempted murder with a deadly weapon (his car) and not driving under influence.

[msanthrope]

165. I wouldn't assume Mom wasn't lying for him.

What I want to see is this---

1) The hospital report from the first car accident...specifically

a) is there a nose injury to Larsgard consistent with the steering wheel?

b) any tox screen performed on him at that time.

2) his current list of prescription medications.

3) Any tox screen performed after the second car accident.

After doing some googling, I found that he was not kicked out of school in Alabama, for 'terrorism'--rather suspended for a year for his drunken and strange behavior. He and his mother apparently thought that making a hue and cry would get him back into school, and so they filed suit.

Then he filed suit in Chicago against a couple who say he was stalking their daughter.

And now his mother has another federal suit in Arizona....

Quite the litigious family, no?

I suggest you google "John Larsgard" here in America....I think the John Larsgard of Gurnee, Illinois (the same town filed on his civil suit) has a number of very interesting hits.

[Bota]

173. Definately good point

I agree, and the familly seems a bit out of the ordinary, but 2001/02 has nothing directly to do with this.

And I have never seen anything about driving under influence - it was not a word about it during the last court hearing (it lasted for 3 hours), and that should be a big part of the sentence, right? If however this was the case, some would have mentioned it, and I listen to the whole thing. Furthermore, non has disbuted that he broke the nose as a result of the beating. The opposite was the case, were witnesses basically said they thought it was appropriate for this guy to punsh him and break his nose as a weird way of dis-arming him.

[msanthrope]

175. Well, then what was he actually charged with???? Not a person defending him has bothered to state

the actual charges they heard....one poster says it was 7 counts of ag assault. Is that true?

[cocernedinaz]

176. yes

yes, he was found guilty on 7 counts of aggravated assult

[msanthrope]

183. He's lucky he got such a light sentence. nt

[Luce Nox]

185. He was looking at a maximum 35 years

[msanthrope]

192. Yep..aggravated assault is pretty serious. He got seven counts. nt

[Bota]

193. Confused?

This has nothing to do with the court rule to give the guy 7.5 years (he was already been found guilty in attempted murder, so it was a choice of 5-35 years).

If I really believed that he tried to kill seven people on purpose, I would have smiled right now. If I thought that anything he did in IL would matter for this particular case, I also would have smiled. But it doesn't.

None got hurt, it seems like a pure traffic offence, serious one, that recquire I big ticket. 7.5 years.... seriously

Your problem is that you care more about what the kid did in 2002 than how the legal system works. No matter what has been done, it is a process that you think you'd find in a third world country. It takes 1 month before the police starts to talk to people. All witnesses are related or friends. The main witness would probably go to jail himself if he can't get John convicted. The judge are due for election this year, in a conservative county. The police are totally insane - look at vg.no and look at the video of it.

I don't know what happend, but I've read enough to see that this process is far away from a fair trial. Forget drugs (he was not sentence for drugs or pills, purely attemted murder, no influence). Forget the past, he was not sentenced for that either.

Do you believe the guy tried to kill seven people, but was not able to do it?

[Eikers]

206. I believe you're at the core of the matter now

The process seems disturbing to me too.

[obamanut2012]

215. You don;t have to hurt someone to be charged with assault

Even aggravated assault. Even attempted murder. You have to have the intent mad the attempt to harm someone.

If I say to you, as you're standing in front of my car, "Get the hell out of my way or I'm going to run you over and kill your ass," and you don't move, and then I gun the engine and drive toward you, guess what that is? Aggravated assault. Even if you jump out of the way and don't even break a nail.

He threatened to kill people after driving -- twice -- down a street filled with festival goers. We already know he drove aggressively enough to run over someone's foot. If he was on any type of meds...

I don;t know the facts, and the defenders on this thread aren't being too forthcoming. I'm not jumping on the FREE LARSGARD! bandwagon until I know more. The guy sounds like a creep with anger problems who likes to threaten people and stalk teen girls.

[Luce Nox]

223. We definitely need more facts but

If everyone that has ever, in some angry or drunken rage, threatened bodily harm to someone spent 7.5 years in jail for it, this would be a prison planet. Nobody debates that the defendant might have anger issues etc but at some point the law has to show a little flexibility and allow for context.

[obamanut2012]

214. I agree -- it would usually be 25-50

In my jurisdiction.

[dixiegrrrrl]

212. Apparently he was "stalking" a teenager from Mobile to Illinois.

found a link to a court decision, dated July 2011....
http://tinyurl.com/7sfrwyo

the court papers give some history, which says that the people who attacked him while he was jogging, in Illinois,
( in 2002)

were the parents of a teenage girl, that the parents felt they had to move from Mobile to Illinois because he was
stalking their daughter, they assaulted him in Illinois.
He sued them for damages related to long term medical injuries, including for neck pain from the assault
and
the court document says that after the attack he went to Australia to attend medical school,
had to drop out in 2004 because of pain from the attack, returned to Norway. had back surgery in 2009,
then sued the Illinois attackers for damages.

makes one wonder the real reason for his leaving Mobile....

[Luce Nox]

222. While I agree Mr. Larsgard certainly seems like a sketchy fellow

All this document shows is that he sued his attackers because they ALLEGED he was stalking them, it does not prove or show that he was indeed stalking.

[Lars77]

224. I am pretty sure his mom drove the first car, not him.

[Luce Nox]

160. I'm really troubled by the lack of US media about this and now..

..looks like someone is playing Wikipedia wars.

Current wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winslow,_Arizona

Previous entries http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Winslow,_Arizona&action=history

Can you tell what's missing? Current edit was made 6 minutes after the last one..

[msanthrope]

168. Apparently Norwegian media was there, and didn't bother to get anything like, well, the

charge sheet, request the public file, the arrest reports...anything.

I want to see his tox screen from the first accident, and then, then second.

[dems_rightnow]

177. Thank you for creating this ID

Please PM me when you create another.

[Luce Nox]

180. Thanks but I'm not sure I follow

Do I need to create another? Or should I have messaged you before??

[Ruby the Liberal]

201. dems_rightnow is the official thread greeter.

Just a service we here at DU provide to maximize comfort and enjoyment.

[dems_rightnow]

207. The pay is very good

And I'm drawing significant overtime here. Bless the two Norwegians.

[wingzeroday]

189. i lol'd again

LOL

[AverageJoe90]

169. This man deserves freedom and NOW! nt

[cocernedinaz]

170. ooook...

honestly, he would not have been found guilty if there wasnt adequate proof. like i stated earlier, proof will be posted as soon as we get it. thank u

[Luce Nox]

172. Seriously with all due respect

Justice is not absolute and history is littered with examples of injustice and abuse. Your repeated statement that his guilt is validated by a conviction by a jury in a small community does not carry as much weight as you seem to think!

[sendero]

174. This doesn't smell right.

.... this article reeks of weasel word apologia such as "he tapped the curb and flattened his tire".

Bullshit. To flatten a tire against a curb you have to hit it hard, otherwise you will just go over it.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle and this article is an extreme minimization of what happened.

[Ruby the Liberal]

182. OP did a manual translation

He said upthread that it was a quick translation from local media, so not word for word.

[Bota]

194. Agreed

I'm Norwegian and you are right. This thing don't feel right - the truth is somewhere in the middle. He basically said that he faltended the tire against the curve - then you have to drive in hard.

[msanthrope]

181. Found a damn interesting petition from Mr. Larsgard of Gurnee, Illinois...

Gurnee, Illinois, is the address on his civil suit that he filed against the Chicago couple whose daughter he was apparently stalking.....

Petitioning
Governor of Illinois

Created By
john larsgard
gurnee, IL


About this PetitionPetition Letter


Why This Is Important

There is importance in not to say all sex offenders should not hold, or be eligible for a medical license. Some sex offenses are pretty minor, such as the politician at the airport who by supposedly bumping his shoe into some undercover cop wanted sex, a sex offense. Likewise the use of prostitutes, while we may not like it, and it deserves punishment, what if a stressed out doctor went to a prostitute and got caught, now he is a sex offender on his time. Of course anyone who abuses patient trust should be gone, like that, but what if a prospective doctor at age 18 dated a 16 year old and they did a little more than just date, voluntarily, does that make him ineligible to be a doctor, just because he is now a sex offender bc the parents found out, Dear Governor, please ask the legislators to limit the scope of the bill.


Recent Signatures

john larsgard (gurnee, IL)

9 months ago

http://www.change.org/petitions/governor-of-illinois-use-moderation-the-noone-wants-rapists-as-doctors-bill

[Ruby the Liberal]

184. This story just keeps getting better and better.

[msanthrope]

186. This dude.....not tossed from school because of "terrorism," but for being an asshat...

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fifty-plus.friends/browse_thread/thread/4851777de2cf9f85/c562efe3c151d808%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3D%2522John%2BLarsgard%2522%23c562efe3c151d808&ei=iGwTS6eaOpW8Qpmqic0O&sa=t&ct=res&cd=2&source=groups&usg=AFQjCNHzJpPjpPQOMNjTwnxKL1fn2l-eOQ

[DURHAM D]

188. Amen to that.

This is amazing.

I just got back to DU after a week of being away and this is way better than anything on TV. Seems we have a lot of new friends or perhaps just a pair of lovely wool socks.

[Luce Nox]

190. It's the extended Larsgard family =)

Sorry for crashing DU - excellent board btw - but this conversation is being carried across several major forums, many of them link here due perhaps to the moderated feature which makes for a more civil conversation..

[Ruby the Liberal]

191. Happy to have all of you.

[terjemann]

199. Why not debate the issue

Running out of wisdom?

[obamanut2012]

216. Most of us don't get excited about defending guys who stalk girls

And lie about why they got tossed from university.

[hootinholler]

195. I hereby declare this a:

[Luce Nox]

196. I was there! =) nt

[chrisa]

197. Internet panic-du-jour?

They stopped doing the Kony thing, so now this is what they're got.

I have absolutely no idea what happened, but neither does anyone else here.

[terjemann]

202. CNN

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-780782


Very interesting post from a local in Winslow,Az..

this just sucks. unfortunaelty i have to say i live in this town.
the events youve described sound about right it doesnt surprise the guy punched him in the nose breaking it . he probably never was charged
i got my postion straight long ago when this guy came to my house one night to rob me. i beat him till i was exhausted and went in the house/ since then its been relatively quiet.

[Son of Gob]

205. A local Norwegian pretending to be from Winslow perhaps

No, you guys wouldn't do that.

[obamanut2012]

217. hahahahaha

Oh my.

[hootinholler]

218. All y'all have failed with your googlefoo.

Last edited Thu Apr 26, 2012, 03:27 PM - Edit history (1)

The case proceedings don't seem to be up yet, however the case number is S-0900-CR-20110780 pretrial motions are up on the AZ superior court public access site but the actual trial stuff is not.

Here is a screenshot of the case summary. Again the minutes of the proceedings are not yet available online.

[Ptah]

219. 03/27/2012 Guilty

[Lars77]

225. This is by far the most commotion i´ve ever caused on the internet. lol

I was 100% sure this thread would die with maybe 2 replies.

[Luce Nox]

234. Well, your signature line is dead on

I spent much of last night between posts watching the ABC show "What would you do", and too many times people are either unable or unwilling to see injustice being done and will do nothing to correct it. Or worse they will take the one way street (no pun intended, really!) to side with what they perceive is the right way, and that's law administered without question, without outside arbitration.

[wingzeroday]

239. bit more info at link

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/04/25/20120425winslow-wrong-turn-prison-norwegian-man.html

[Eikers]

243. Comments on the legal merits of the case - an attorneys view

Attorney June Edvenson has been asked to assist Johns mother. Here are a few articles worth of comments based on the court transcripts. Very interesting indeed for those of you who would like to read up a bit on this case.

[link:http://www.edvensonconsulting.com/apps/blog/entries/show/14428289-john-kristoffer-larsgard-part-1|