Time to mend fences with Russian Federation say European leaders.

[another_liberal]

Our MIC war-mongers and Wall Street greedheads may have to gradually give up their cherished plans to bring Ukraine, Russia, and, one imagines, the entire central Euro-Asian land mass under our neo-Imperial hegemony. Creating a uni-polar World Order isn't turning out to be quite as simple as some Second America Century types seem to have thought it would be.

European Union Foreign Policy Chief Federica Mogherini (Reuters)


West wants to end confrontation with Russia over Ukraine – EU foreign policy chief


Western powers want to find common ground with Russia and end their confrontational approach over Ukraine, the EU's foreign policy chief told Italian media. She denied that the EU differs from the US in its position towards dealing with the crisis. Federica Mogherini, High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, identified Ukraine as one of the top conflicts worrying Europe, especially regarding its impact on the eurozone’s relations with Russia.

During an interview with Italy's la Repubblica newspaper, Mogherini suggested opening up direct dialogue with Moscow. “On the one hand, we should strengthen our support for Ukraine, where the internal economic situation could very quickly become very serious. And, on the other hand, we should begin a direct debate with Moscow on our relations and the role Russia could play in other scenarios of the crisis,” Mogherini said. “Even in Kiev everyone asks the question of how the conflict could be brought to an end,” the official added, saying that the situation is “very difficult for Russia.” She added that it is in Moscow’s interest to “cooperate.”

At the same time, Mogherini rejected the idea that the EU’s position on the crisis differs from that of the US. “It is not true that there is a soft Europe stance, which opposes the US hardline position. On the contrary, the latest data shows that trade between Russia and Europe is declining, while trade between Russia and the US is increasing.” Mogherini said that Washington's views on Russia match those of Europe, adding that “everyone wants to get out of the logic of confrontation.” The EU foreign policy chief also identified situations in the Middle East and Libya as major concerns for Europe, pointing out that Russia plays a significant role on the international arena and could help to resolve those conflicts. “We all know Russia plays an important role not only in Ukraine, but also in Syria, Iran, the Middle East, Libya."

Meanwhile, Austrian President Heinz Fischer warned against intensifying sanctions against Russia, calling the move “unwise and harmful” in an interview to Wirtschaftsblatt newspaper. The approach that more and more sanctions should be implemented against Russia until it is “weak enough” to forcefully accept the EU’s own “political objectives” is a mistake, according to Fischer. “I support those who say that we have reached a stage where...the imposition of new sanctions against Russia will continue to hinder its development, but will not bring us closer to an amicable solution,” Fischer said, adding that it will only create a deeper rift.

(snip)



Read more at: http://rt.com/news/218271-eu-confrontation-ukraine-russia/

[Duckhunter935]

1. another RT dump

easiest way to stop the conflict is for Russia to stop supplying the rebel groups with troops and equipment, return Crimea under the signed Budapest agreement. After that reopen all trade and links to Russia like they were before the invasion of another sovereign country. Easy conflict ends and all parties win.

[Duckhunter935]

9. There was no coup

The victims are the ones in the east that were living in peace before Russia invaded and annexed Crimea and then provoked the unrest in east Ukraine.

So sorry for them and now they are starving as even the Russian humanitarian aid is taken by the rebels. The coal they are mining for no pay is being trucked to Russia. Sad thing is now Russia in its great gratitude is now selling that coal back to Ukraine as a "gift"

[Duckhunter935]

18. yes, right what bullshit

The Budapest agreement signed by both Ukraine and Russia states that Ukraine's borders would be recognized to include Crimea as part of Ukraine. Russia broke it!

Basing rights in Crimea. Russia rented basing rights from Ukraine and by that agreement they were allowed a certain number. They were not allowed to leave the bases without Ukrainian approval in advance. Russia broke that also!

Russia blockaded the Ukrainian navy in Crimea and seized the ships breaking international law in doing so.


And last please be honest, why would Russia have to pay rent to another sovereign nation if they were on Russian territory. By the way not one nation recognized that as Russia as it has been part of Ukraine since the 50's


Get real, how can you even spout that inane crap

[NuclearDem]

20. Russia had military bases, and their forces were confined to those bases.

The moment they left those bases and entered Ukrainian territory, that was an invasion.

I'm pretty sure I told you this before, whatever your previous account was.

[Duckhunter935]

21. I am sure you are correct

I would not be surprised if that poster was not a previous member that had been kicked off. What a load of crap. Can not even get the fact that Russia had basing rights from UKRAINE and was renting them but the agreement was to limit numbers and keep them on the bases unless Ukraine gave approval, which in this case they did not and Russia did indeed INVADE.

[another_liberal]

27. History will easily be able to tell who started the Ukrainian Civil War . . .

Here's a clue: It won't be Russia; in fact, it won't be a European power at all.

(Are you getting my drift?)

[Duckhunter935]

34. and once again you will be proven wrong

Putin and RT can only rewrite history for Russia, not the rest of the world. Too bad I know.

[arely staircase]

17. in case you missed this rt classic

[FrodosPet]

19. RT desperately trying to sell a Right Wing idea to America!

It sounds like the rally with millions ended up with a few Ron Paul supporters and a half dozen leftists who never got the memo that Russia is not communist anymore.

[another_liberal]

23. This OP is not about RT News . . .

Please try to stay with the topic. Don't try to highjack my OP. Thank you.

[arely staircase]

25. that goes in all rt threads from now on

People who don't know it is Russian state propaganda need context.

Have a nice day.

[another_liberal]

28. That is your prerogative . . .

Until it becomes too obviously a case of stalking.

Have fun!

[arely staircase]

35. alert on it

if it vexes you so.

[another_liberal]

40. Be careful . . .

What you wish for.

[arely staircase]

42. just remember

0-7 and you can't play with the button for a day.

[another_liberal]

49. Intentional and repeated stalking . . .

Stalking for the purpose of attacking a DU member can be handled differently.

Enough said?

[Duckhunter935]

54. Who is stalking

Another poster can have an opinion and you indeed might be stalking me. Just because you do not like how it is going you should not threaten other DU members. Pointing out the source of you OP is a Putin owned and run propaganda sheet is entirely relevant to any discussion in this thread.

[zappaman]

59. Stalking?

The poster is pointing out your shit source...RT.

[Duckhunter935]

62. Correct, not stalking

[Duckhunter935]

65. I would not worry too much

usually disappears when confronted. It is truly sad that he has to threaten another DU member that does not agree with his source material.

[arely staircase]

67. everything he posts is from rt

that is all I really need to know about him. I will piss on rt every time I see something posted from that propaganda shit heap. That isn't stalking. It is a community service.

[Duckhunter935]

68. yes it is

Do not forget now there is also Sputnik news. RT's little brother. Same type of crap.

[pinboy3niner]

30. The OP IS RT News, a state propaganda organ

It's like posting Dick Cheney press releases extolling the benefits of torture.

[Duckhunter935]

36. yep

seems some people do not like that pointed out

[another_liberal]

45. I only ask that you point it out . . .

Under your own OP, and that you stop cluttering the OPs I post with obsessive RT-bashing comments. Surely that can't be too much to ask?

[arely staircase]

47. dude. seriously. you post links to a fascist propaganda site on a liberal message board

then complain when the liberals fuck with you? That is priceless.

[hobbit709]

48. I believe that poster is sarchasm challenged.

[NuclearDem]

52. Here, this one was a fucking gem:

185. It is a personal hatred of Russia on the part of some . . .

Russian laws have insulted their life style, so they demand we fight a third World War to assuage their wounded pride.

I, for one, am not ready to get on that particular bandwagon.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014881926#post185

[Duckhunter935]

56. Yes it is

and shows what he thinks about the LBGT and Tartar communities. Truly a shame for a liberal.

[zappaman]

60. Love that comment!

[Cha]

81. Which reminds me.. I miss The Magistrate. thanks for that golden oldie ND

[Duckhunter935]

83. Yes, I miss him also

[arely staircase]

110. what happened to the magistrate

is he ok?

[Duckhunter935]

113. I am curious too

looks like the account is still good

[Cha]

117. I have no idea, arely.. I noticed awhile back but just got reminded again with the link. Hope Sir

is doing Well!

[snappyturtle]

66. Don't read it! It's like turning the channel.

You could instead listen and watch the U.S. M$M (corporate/gov't) news channels to partake in our propaganda. So much of what RT bashers portend abput Russia is happening here in the U.S. too...kinda' like the pot calling the kettle black.

Just because this is a RT report does not mean that there aren't countries who would perfer better relations with Russia. Bashing RT doesn't make that go away. imho

[Duckhunter935]

69. "Bashing RT doesn't make that go away."

I fully agree, Putin has stolen so much from being a modern day dictator to finance his propaganda.

I prefer getting my news from many sources, US, European, Australian, Canadian, Russian, Ukrainian, and too many others that I am sure I missed many.

I think a couple here only get there news from RT and Sputnik, RT's little brother of a Putin run propaganda sheet. I do believe in pointing out obvious government run propaganda.

[snappyturtle]

74. I have to ask if you point out U.S. propaganda too? Maybe you do and

I am just unaware of that.

See my response #72...at bottom.

I also have to ask since you purport to know, how has or what has Putin done to finance his propaganda? Enlighten me. I ask this with sincerity.

[Duckhunter935]

76. going from a mid level KGB officer to

President not making a large salary. I can put two and two together. He is now a billionaire, how did that happen? He is more of a dictator than a President. I agree US government funded news should also not be relied on.

[zappaman]

43. +100!

[newfie11]

2. Sounds good to me. Nt

[SidDithers]

3. Transparent...nt

Sid

[NuclearDem]

4. Certainly. Once they get out of Crimea.

[another_liberal]

24. Most of the people in Crimea are Russian . . .

They voted to be a part of Russia, and not to be a part of Ukraine.

What are you going to tell them? Will you tell them the United States needs them to be a part of Ukraine, so that's how it's going to be?

Who or what gives you that right?

[NuclearDem]

38. The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances.

Russia, the US, and the UK agreed to respect Ukrainian territorial integrity. Russia violated that agreement by invading Crimea and annexing it into Russia.

[another_liberal]

44. The UN charter supersedes that agreement . . .

All ethnic minorities have the right to self-determination and to demand independence from a larger nation they may be part of. We have supported those rights in the case of several eastern European nations, most notably in the case of Kosovo. Surely you aren't suggesting we now become hypocrites in regard to the Russians of Crimea?

[NuclearDem]

50. Yeah, because the only way Crimeans were ever going to be able to leave

is when Russia invaded.

Good God, are you kidding me?

[another_liberal]

51. They held an election on the status question . . .

Those wanting to join Russia won. No kidding.

[NuclearDem]

53. An election that had no option for the status quo.

Again, are you kidding me? Are you deliberately trolling us at this point, or do you actually believe the fascist horseshit coming out of the Kremlin?

[Duckhunter935]

61. he forgets that little part

and the part where Russia sent in military forces to seize the Crimean peninsula. Not to mention breaking international laws by blockading the Ukrainian fleet in port so the Russian military could storm and seize those assets also.

unfucking beleivable

[Cayenne]

104. So? I don't want nuclear war

Russia has retreated from most all of eastern Europe but is drawing a line at Crimea and the Russian speaking parts of Ukraine. We should respect that.

[NuclearDem]

105. Unless I missed something and Crimea and Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine

all of a sudden became Russian territory, then I don't care. Russia can stay the fuck in Russia and let the rest of Europe decide its own fate.

[Duckhunter935]

114. Nope, you did not miss anything

Russia invaded breaking numerous treaties and agreements in that process. Some here want to reward that behavior.

[Duckhunter935]

112. for now...........

another person did the same thing if we just gave him the Sudetenland, that worked out well also.

Putin will not be happy with just Crimea. He needs a port, he needs a land bridge, even better a land bridge to the chunk of Moldova he is occupying. There are other areas in eastern Europe that he wants to send in protection for "ethnic Russians"


He will not stop like you think.

[Duckhunter935]

58. Well since Russia

deported the indigenous Tartar population before and are doing the same now. You do there was no choice on the ballot to remain part of Ukraine, right?

I will tell them what the United Nations has said, Russia invaded Ukrainian Crimea, had an illegal vote not carried out under any international standards and they must leave and return Crimea to the sovereign state of Ukraine.

Who give Putin the right to invade another country? YOU?

[Igel]

5. Who knew that Putin was a member of Wall Street.

MIC, to be sure, he's in with it--it's hard to miss the Russian push for militarization and jingoism when it comes to their military. Even to the point of saying that production and sale of military equipment will save Russia.

Didn't realize Obama was a Eurasianist, though. Must have missed that one.

Gee, are there any actual Eurasianists in the world? Perhaps somebody who talks about Eurasia, how the future of the world is Eurasia, how Eurasia will undermine and destroy America and be dominant, how Syria is a Eurasian outpost in the Middle East and therefore a good, firm ally for even making the future regional language of Eurasia required studies?

Somebody who's firmly bipolar in his view of the world? Heading for that long sought after dream, in magnetism as well as politics, a monopole? (With the physicists likely to find their goal first, at least having skyrmions where politics just gets s-curmugeons).

No?

Well, that would be the nationalist, pro-military expansionist Eurasianist of choice, Voloden'ka Putyovka-deshovka. I know, I know, it's hard to see something when, literally, it's right under your nose.

[another_liberal]

33. About half way through . . .

The metaphor becomes rather strained. Still, there are some good zingers now and then.

[Duckhunter935]

10. welcome back

[FSogol]

7. LOL, You forgot the term, "Running Dog Capitalists!"

[Duckhunter935]

11. facsist neo-nazi running dog capitalists

[another_liberal]

13. They aren't "Running" anymore . . .

Unless you meant that in the sense of, "Running everything for their own benefit," in which case I agree.

Yes, it should be added, they are still dogs and they are still Capitalists.

[FSogol]

14. If your post were a college basketball game, the home team crowd would be chanting, "air ball, air

ball" right now.

[another_liberal]

22. War and peace/life and death . . .

Are they a game?

[Union Scribe]

93. The New Cold Warriors here think so.

Thanks for continuing to offer other perspectives besides the inane "sanctions! NATO! saber rattle rattle!" rhetoric the other "liberals" here go for.

[another_liberal]

103. Thank you, my friend . . .

And have a happy New Year!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

16. a scared, wounded and cornered animal is dangerous...

if we don't talk, something bad is coming.

sP

[hobbit709]

26. I see the Putin worshipers are at it again.

[another_liberal]

29. Where are they? Where are they?

Do you have a list of their names yet?

[hobbit709]

31. go look in the mirror, you'll see one right there.

[LordGlenconner]

32. +1

Took the words right out of my mouth/keyboard.

[another_liberal]

39. You are entirely mistaken . . .

I don't worship any human being, especially not President Putin.

Though I also don't want my country to go to war with the country he leads. I guess, in some circles, that disinclination toward military disaster might be seen as equivalent to "Worship?"

Go figure? I sure as hell can't comprehend why someone would arrive at that conclusion.

[NuclearDem]

41. "I sure as hell can't comprehend why someone would arrive at that conclusion."

[another_liberal]

46. Like I said . . .

[Duckhunter935]

71. So what has Putin done wrong?

Let's see if you can name some

[another_liberal]

78. That side of the street is already well covered . . .

By many others, you included.

[Duckhunter935]

82. I am asking you

what do YOU think he has done wrong or has he been perfect and you support him fully.

Like you said, you know my thoughts. I think he is no more than a dictator that has invaded another country breaking international law and signed agreements. He is very dangerous as if not stopped now he will continue with other countries to help the "ethnic Russian minorities"

[another_liberal]

88. President Putin has done things wrong . . .

One of his worst mistakes was trusting George W. Bush too far. He got that straightened out for him at the opening of the Summer Olympics in 2008. The goofy little bastard laughed in Putin's face when it was announced that our proxy Georgian army had entered South Ossetia and was headed for regional capital, Tskinvali. The Russian President looked genuinely surprised, and he should not have been.

There are other things to criticize President Putin for; after all, he has been in the highest levels of the Russian government for decades now. It is most doubtful that he would not have screwed up at least a few times. One further example that should be highlighted, of course, is his ill-advised signing of the Duma law which restricts self expression by Russian citizens depending upon their sexual orientation. How he could have imagined that was the way to go in the second decade of the Twenty-First Century is unfathomable to me. He caused himself and his country enormous harm.

[Duckhunter935]

96. Very good

You celebrate another Russian invasion and occupation while praising once again your hero Putin. I do agree with you on Bush.

Ill advised signing, wow that is harsh language.

How about his policies on LGBT, I say totally outrageous an no excuses for it. How about freedom of the press and internet. No excuse for those limits. How about jailing any opposition leaders, totally inexcusable. Lets see Crimea and the Tarar's. There treatment under Putin in inexcusable. want me to continue.

You came up with one weak assed criticism an praise for you great friend.


I rest my case

[another_liberal]

98. Like I said initially . . .

That side of the street is already well worked by many others, you included.

[Union Scribe]

91. That's fucking ignorant.

Either respond to the article or don't click on it if it bothers you so damn much, but enough with the ad hom bullshit.

[hobbit709]

92. did someone pull your chain?

[Union Scribe]

94. Gang-ups and pile-ons do that to me.

I'm reccing this just to throw it in your face.

[zappaman]

37. RT is Putin's propaganda outlet.

In case no one has caught on by now.

[HERVEPA]

55. How the fuck do you sleep at night?

[NuclearDem]

57. Well, vodka prices have been capped, so I guess that helps.

[Duckhunter935]

63. Priceless

[pinboy3niner]

64. LOL!

[HERVEPA]

70. Pefect! Just Perfect!

(You're welcome for the setup).

[SidDithers]

97. /thread...nt

Sid

[snappyturtle]

72. Maybe a different source on the same subject would help some here who

seem incapable of understanding the meaning of the RT article because of their extreme predjudice.

http://euobserver.com/foreign/127056

BRUSSELS - Federica Mogherini, the EU’s foreign policy chief, has said the bloc should launch a new “debate” with Russia aimed at ending the “confrontation” over Ukraine.

She told Italy’s La Repubblica daily on Saturday (27 December): “The current situation is very difficult for Russia. It would be in its interest to contribute to ending the conflict. At the same time, we all know that Russia plays an important role not only in Ukraine, but also in Syria, Iran, the Middle East, Libya”.

“We have to open a direct debate with Moscow on our mutual relations and the role that Russia can play in other crises”.

She noted that Ukraine and the US also want a way out.

More at link....(Interesting read...even Paul Krugman is cited...)

[Duckhunter935]

75. or maybe the extreme slant

RT puts into the coverage. I agree the OP would have been better served to cite a different source. Everyone seems to agree, Russia can help things a great deal if they leave Crimea and stop supplying the separatists and enforce the international borders as they are required to do.

[another_liberal]

79. Thank you.

There are a few here who seem intent on nothing so much as self-indulgent Russia Today bashing.

If I may be allowed a digression: There is a theory that it is not hatred of RT or even Russia which motivates many of them, rather their constant bashing of all things Russian is an expression of some frustrated, unrequited desire for President Putin himself? I mean, all of those shirtless pictures of him they love to repost endlessly . . . come on guys.

[Duckhunter935]

84. No one hates Russia

but you keep trying to put that out there.

The majority here do not care for the man in charge of a country that invades it's neighbors. Actually quite simple. We also believe RT is a slanted propaganda piece for Putin and you would be better off sourcing from other sources. You do seem to post mostly RT stuff and get all hot and bothered when it is rightly derided as a news source on Ukraine.

So where did you get theory from may I ask?

[another_liberal]

85. I would, "Be better off sourcing from other sources," you say?

Is that meant to be a threat of some kind?

[Duckhunter935]

87. What? no, it is a hint

that you might actually get better dialog if you did not source 99% of your posted links to the Putin propaganda rag of RT.

I know you are not that paranoid to think that was a threat?

If you feel that strongly or afraid why not alert on it? I have faith that any jury would find in my favor 7-0

[another_liberal]

89. I get excellent dialog . . .

Especially when the people who reply with comments which are on topic don't get smothered by repetitious nonsense from narrow-minded RT bashers.

[Duckhunter935]

95. Sure you do

I know how much you want control how the discussion goes but unfortunately you can not. The majority will always call out the propaganda when you link to it. It IS a main part of the discussion as much as you hate that.

[LittleBlue]

73. Ironically, those same pro-Russia warmongers are

working to ensure a multipolar world. They will ultimately allow China to exploit the economic chaos created in Russia to get favorable deals. It's already happened as China recently got a more favorable price on the natural gas mega deal.

Look for Russia to become more and more dependent on China for its economic and diplomatic needs. If the west had been less confrontational with Putin, it wouldn't have happened as China is a rival to Russian influence in central Asia. But now Russia won't be able to stop China from bringing central Asia into their sphere of influence. China is expanding their Look West philosophy more and more.

[another_liberal]

80. China will move cautiously . . .

They have plenty of time to make this the "Chinese Century."

[1step]

77. uh, nope

That's both my response to that idea and the name (minus the comma) of the DUer who posted this in LBN.

[Iggo]

86. Why? Are we winning?

[another_liberal]

90. What's there to win?

Just use up lots of weapons and ammunition trying to kill people. That's what makes America's munitions makers great!


(sarcasm, of course)

[MFrohike]

99. There's a thread

A couple of thoughts:

1. RT is no more biased toward power than WaPO, NYT, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. If that confuses anyone, it's not a compliment for RT.

2. EU countries have been making noises for months about getting rid of the sanctions because they're the ones actually taking the hit. It's pretty damned myopic of random Americans, and Canadians, on the internet to get all self-righteous about Crimea and Ukraine when it costs nothing to do it. Europe's a complete basket case because of allies like Angela Merkel, so I'm not really sure how making things worse for them, by cutting off a huge trading partner, is really going to make the world a better place. It strikes me as a quicker path to victory for the far right.

[another_liberal]

100. Good points well stated . . .

Especially the second: The U.S. risks alienating the EU countries and weakening its hold on Western Europe altogether. A little more understanding for the problems and limitations of our allies, and a little less arrogant self-aggrandizement would serve our nation well at this dangerous time.

[Duckhunter935]

101. WaPO, NYT, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc.

are not owned and run by the government as far as I know

EU countries have been making noises for months about getting rid of the sanctions because they're the ones actually taking the hit.

Yes a few are and inverters are also. The smart ones know what will happen if you let Putin get away with another land grab.

Just search for appeasement, worked real good the first time.

[MFrohike]

106. Well

I didn't say a word about ownership. I said they're all biased toward power. It really doesn't matter who owns it if it just sings the song of the powerful.

Merkel and Draghi forced two changes in nominally democratic countries. They overrode elected governments in Greece and Italy and forced a change in those governments to their liking. What is the difference between them and Putin?

The "lesson of Munich" is that you don't deal with aggressive dictators without an army at your back. Tut-tutting about appeasement sounds great until you reflect Britain didn't start rearming until immediately AFTER Munich. Would starting a war he had no chance of winning really have been the better move?

The main country making noise about the sanctions is the one that matters: Germany. The fact the linchpin itself is feeling the strain should cause a serious rethinking of this policy. Europe is circling the drain. Spain and Greece have over 20% unemployment. Italy is over 10% and France is about to join the club. As we saw earlier this year, the far right is the primary beneficiary of an economically depressed Europe. Does it make sense to lose an entire continent to unabashed racists just to prove a point?

[Duckhunter935]

107. Greece and Italy

decided democratically to enter the EU and that requires certain things and responsibilities to the collective from them. They can drop from the EU any time and go back to there own currency and economies. Russia did not give Ukraine a choice, they just invaded and took over part of the country by force of arms. Curious that is the same thing that happened in the 30's. Putin will keep pressing his ethnic Russian bull in many other east European countries and go in to "help" with his military.

[MFrohike]

108. Is that a fact?

Papandreou proposed a referendum on whether Greece would accept the terms of a bailout in 2011-2012. Merkel and Draghi hit the wall and threatened to yank the existing funding if he "decided democratically" to do anything but take their terms. Mario Monti was forced on Italy when the Troika announced they would no longer deal with Berlusconi. He was appointed a senator for life by the president, then invited to form the new government when Berlusconi finally quit. He won no election and didn't hold one until after the "reforms" demanded by the Troika were implemented. If you think that's an example of democracy, I don't know what to tell you.

Merkel and Draghi, and the rest, gave Europe no choice either. The choice was impose crushing austerity on your own people or find yourself locked out of your trade channels, the capital markets, and any chance of recovering from a crisis very much of the elite's making. Hell, Spain's problems are primarily due to German hot money blowing up a real estate bubble in that country. They forced countries to take the private debts of incompetent banks onto the public balance sheet and then penalized those countries for fiscal "irresponsibility." The penalty for not doing so was exactly what I stated above.

The difference between Putin and our allies is means, not end. It's irrational to get worked up over Ukraine while glossing over the complete erosion of national sovereignty in Europe proper. The hell with irrational, it's hypocritical. If you want to criticize Vlad, be my guest. Just recognize that Germany under Merkel is no damn different.

[Duckhunter935]

109. did they formally requesst out of the EU?

using the required processes? If not they are bound by the EU agreements the government signed. As long as the are part of the union, they have responsibilities. I am sure it is the same if you were part of the new Russian union of economic states he is pushing.

[MFrohike]

111. Pure comedy

When they tried to exercise any sovereignty, they were informed they'd be run into the ground. The Greek proposal was not to leave the EU, but to force a change in policy by their German overlords. I can only imagine what they'd have done if Papandreou had actually held the referendum or, for that matter, if Syriza takes power next year and tries to oppose the austerity agenda. I imagine Merkel and co. will be completely respectful of their attempt to fix Greece's problems, which were caused in no small part by German mercantilism.

If you really want to play the game of having a choice, I could point out that Ukrainians could have simply backed their incumbent president and then they wouldn't have any problems. Of course, if I did that, it'd be absurd. It would be just as absurd as pretending that threats from Germany to Greece are anything but mortal.

[Duckhunter935]

115. sure, whatever you say

I know there are treaties and agreements that need to be followed. Italy and Greece can leave the EU and not be under the EU rules for budgeting. Russia does not follow treaties and agreements, they break them and invade other sovereign countries causing trouble then complain when the invaded country turns away and wants protection from another source.

[MFrohike]

119. Oh please

I don't know if you're playing ignorant or you actually are ignorant in this situation, but it's sad either way. You can move the goalposts to worrying over treaties, but the simple fact remains: Germany and Russia do the same thing, they just do it in different ways. Part of having a rational foreign policy means that you worry about what people are doing, not just how they do it. Whether a soldier or paramilitary shoots someone or you starve them to death through vicious austerity, that person is still dead. Your faux moral distinction between the power of the gun and the power of the pen is ludicrous. It makes no sense to condemn the strong for bullying the weak with violence and to be completely silent when it's done through "civilized" processes. Either way, your silence makes you an accomplice.

[seveneyes]

102. Dominion

We dream of rain and the history of the gun
There's a lighthouse in the middle of Prussia
A white house in a red square
I'm living in films for the sake of Russia
A Kino Runner for the DDR
And the fifty-two daughters of the revolution
Turn the gold to chrome
Gift...nothing to lose
Stuck inside of Memphis with the mobile home

[Boreal]

116. Start shit then back away from it

Mogherini speaks with a forked tongue. On the one had, she offers an olive branch and, on the other, says the EU doesn't differ from the position of the US. lol. The US position is to DESTROY a sovereign Russia with the goal of total AngloAmerican hegemony.

What the Ukraine crisis needs are talks around decentralization reforms, Fischer noted.

“Serious talk of reforms in the area of decentralization or federalization would have to be done, which would foster a situation in eastern Ukraine where both sides could live together.”

In terms of moving towards a solution in Ukraine, a respected ceasefire and reasonable dialogue would need to be observed, Fischer added.

Uh, that is what Russia has said since the the EU conspired with the US to overthrow the elected government, followed by a puppet regime that set straight forth murdering "Colorado beetles" and ethnic cleansing. How nice they've finally come around to Russia's position but very fucking late for all those people who have been murdered, disabled, made refugees, had their communities, villages, cities, social connections, careers, jobs and lives destroyed.

“Brussels apparently overestimated the attractiveness of European Association Agreement compared to the other option for Ukraine – namely the offer from Russia,” he said. “It was recognized only at the last moment that it was a real ordeal for Ukraine to choose between EU offer and the billion offer from [Russian President] Vladimir Putin, which was better suited for the realities faced by Ukraine in the fall of 2013.”

Ukraine needs to be free to build its own relationships with both Europe and Russia, Fischer concluded.

Ha! You couldn't make this shit up. Rewind to late 2013 and pretend there was no western fomented coup. Yes, Russia's offer back then was a million times better. 15 billion, gas discounts and no string attached. Prior to that, Russia had given more billions to Ukraine - even while it was not paying it's gas bills and was stealing gas bought by the European market!

The US and EU manipulated and mislead naive Maidan demonstrators, as well as their Nazi factions, with promises of "joining the European family", getting poor western Ukrainians to believe they'd be living like people in London and Paris once the association agreement was signed. That was all a big fat lie, of course, and the failed state of Ukraine was never of interest to the west except to loot for resources and as a means for the US to drive a wedge between Russia and Europe. Now there is a massive fucked mess and the west doesn't want to pay for it (after promises of huge money). While a few billion were doled out (most going to Kolomoisky and his Privat Bank), Ukraine is totally unable to meet the conditions for further tranches - conditions of EXTREME austerity, btw. It's all money down a rat hole and now the west is looking for Russia to fix things while still engaging in economic warfare. One thing I agree with Nuland on is "fuck the EU".

[Odin2005]

118. RT? LOL!

[nationalize the fed]

120. Amusing that most of the people that say RT is a joke

then usually regurgitate whatever MSNBC,CNN, or their favorite network says.

That's the joke.

Remember when they caught the Army PSYOP team in the newsrooms of CNN and NPR? That was 1999. Imagine the "progress" since then. And it would be a good bet that most of those laughing at RT have never heard about the PSYOP infestation of US news. Or would say it's a "conspiracy theory".

CNN AND PSYOPS
by Alexander Cockburn


Military personnel from the Fourth Psychological Operations Group based at Fort Bragg, in North Carolina, have until recently been working in CNN’s hq in Atlanta.

CNN is up in arms about our report in the last issue of CounterPunch concerning the findings of the Dutch journalist, Abe de Vries about the presence of US Army personnel at CNN, owned by Time-Warner. We cited an article by de Vries which appeared on February 21 in the reputable Dutch daily newspaper Trouw, originally translated into English and placed on the web by Emperor’s Clothes. De Vries reported that a handful of military personnel from the Third Psychological Operations Battalion, part of the airmobile Fourth Psychological Operations Group based at Fort Bragg, in North Carolina, had worked in CNN’s hq in Atlanta....
http://www.counterpunch.org/2000/03/26/cnn-and-psyops/

It's all about divide and conquer, at home and abroad. When the dumbed down US citizens take a break from fighting themselves, they are supposed to hate the current foreign enemy of the month.

Thanks for posting these updates and Happy New Year.