General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Your job is to hold my feet to the fire."
"Your job is to hold my feet to the fire. So, you need to be out there everyday raising these issues, telling us when were doing the right or wrong thing. My role is to be President of the United States, and your role is to be a strong voice for people who arent always heard."
http://www.stanforddaily.com/2011/12/01/a-foot-in-two-worlds/
"I think thats a powerful message what produces good policy is not just the expertise of people inside the government, but the pressure that comes from outside."
Jeremy Weinstein
". . . I think at the core of the presidents agenda on democracy and human rights is recognizing that sustainable political change comes from the bottom up, Weinstein said. . . . . .You tend not to get the kinds of outcomes that youre interested in unless you have that base of support and interest with people willing to take risks. . . .
http://www.stanforddaily.com/2011/12/01/a-foot-in-two-worlds/
The president instructed his supporters to hold "my feet to the fire" for the simple reason that without this pressure to change course when wrong, without his supporters assertively being a "voice for people who arent always heard.", his ability to achieve democratic outcomes is made much harder.
Blind approval is the last thing he needs: To the contrary, such misguided "support" all but guarantees that the political pressure to triangulate will result in continued shifts of the Overton Window even furthers to the right.
Blind, unquestioning approval is thus not helpful (but harmful) even when the President is fighting for correct policy, because it does not provide the positive pressure of an assertive base that is essential in this age of sold-out corporate media.
But blind, unquestioning approval is catastrophic when the President's policy is in need of the correction that can only be provided by a vigorous base of support that demands that a ill-begotten course be corrected.
Our President had the foresight to explicitly instruct us to hold his feet to the fire when he is doing the "wrong thing" that used an example of us being a "voice for people who arent always heard".
This wisdom could is particularly appropriate in 2015 as we (following on the heels of a budget deal that capitulated to Wall Street) confront a multifaceted corporatist attack on workers, on the ability of governments to protect the environment, on citizens, on due process through our judicial system, and massive inappropriate expansion of intellectual property laws in ways that hinder rather than promote innovation, that enrich the 1% on the backs of everyone else, all written in secret by corporate lobbyists, and falsely peddled as a "trade deal", and demands that Congress vote with no input or amendments, on faith alone.
If ever there was a time that our President NEEDS us to be that voice for people who arent always heard., and to hold his feet to the fire, to tell him when he is wrong, and to provide the public pressure necessary to prevent a policy disaster much worse than NAFTA, is this not the time?
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)If supporters don't speak out then we're no better than the GOP calling anyone that spoke against them, traitors.
K&R!
Cha
(297,270 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)I saw that post. I honestly thought it was in reply to someone who was saying that they disagreed with President Obama. Maybe it was a continuation of something I missed on a different thread.
Cha
(297,270 posts)venomous pot shots do nothing. Wonder how the poster would like to be told to "stfu"? Hmm.. probably not so much.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Glad I missed the original.
It sure doesn't help change anything
Kablooie
(18,634 posts)Cha
(297,270 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)No childish disrespect necessary. But we must speak out with a loud voice, in no uncertain terms.
The President has demonstrated that he is not infallible.
Join us in reining in the influence of the corporations.
The President is wrong! Tell him!
sheshe2
(83,780 posts)With this statement...above
Well he is sure hearing from those level headed people now is he not Cha? Those awesome truth tellers, the voice of the people. Here at DU holding his feet to the fire means calling him an F'ing piece of shit used car sales man. Or Dear President Obama Shut the F' up. Bravo DU. The sane voices of the people giving incite to how to run this government and ideas as how to correct the problems. Do any of them understand the irony Cha?
If this is the voice of the people then we are truly lost.
Cha
(297,270 posts)brushes it off his shoulders. He's had so much experience fluffing away the hate and focusing on his job.
Obama shows everyone respect but too many feel they can just fling their ***** at him.
sheshe2
(83,780 posts)I love these hold his feet to the fire posts.
Cha
(297,270 posts)'cause that does nothing but make them look small.
Thought you were beddy bye?!
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)....sounds a hell of a lot like repeating "you didn't build that" over and over and over.
And it's equally useful in the conversation.
Cha
(297,270 posts)beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)I can tell the difference between substantive disagreement and blowing off steam.
What does upset me is when a line like that is used in an unfair attempt to dismiss a valid argument. Hence the analogy to the "you didn't build it" crowd.
In fact, the OP is saying that we should take Obama at his word. I'd think you'd be on board with that.
Cha
(297,270 posts)feet to the fire with criticism but not stupid name calling.
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)I have to admit, I probably wouldn't have voted to hide (I did see the post, but it didn't make an impression, so I don't remember the context), but for my own part, I *always* prefer thoughtful criticism to name calling.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)"Tell them to knock it off" How about the other OP " I stand with President Obama(Redux)" which you posted on.
Poster on this OP, "Fuck all the deranged fucks who hate him" Are you calling this valid criticism and telling him to knock it off?
Cha
(297,270 posts)themselves up to be condemned. Not everybody on here thinks they're such hot *****.
Oh, and I know where I post.. thanks anyway.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)"DERANGED FUCKS" is stupid name calling by any rational human being.
I pointed out that you posted on the same OP as this name caller and didn't take your own advice and tell him to knock it off.
"they're such hot *****" is this your more dignified way of stupid name calling
There are many on this site that do not accept any word that isn't complete support. It is frustrating and counter productive.
I and many others agree with you that using the kind of language you speak of doesn't do any good and is wrong. But this OP is right.
To continually just support and berate those that don't support everything President Obama says and does just detracts from the conversation. No one is infallible.
Cha
(297,270 posts)to point that out. But, President Obama gets blamed for many things that he has no control over. He's not Magic man, either.
Obama shows respect to everyone even his enemies.. that's just who he is. I think some of it has to do with his upbringing in Hawaii. But posters on an internet board spew bitter epithets and telling him to STFU.. calling him a "pos used car salesman" yesterday) with many "boy howdys" and RECS.. that's not constructive criticism.
President Obama supporters get berated too(for even daring to have a Group (where others can't go to call him names) so I know how that feels.. We're accused of being a cult.. Ha! But, that doesn't bother me because I consider the source..
Anyway.. personally I don't have a problem with criticism.. hold his feet to the fire. I just want it based on facts. But, that's just me.
I have absolutely no problem with a group specifically for President Obama. Weird thing to be upset about.
But I also don't like being lumped in with being a hater or racist, which I have been.
I don't know. I think he is magical. He's the first Black President of the United States. That's magical.
Regardless of the many issues I have with him now, I campaigned my butt off for him twice and was so in awe when I met him, I have absolutely no idea what was said. But I made him laugh. I know that.
Cha
(297,270 posts)plenty of evidence of that really happening without jumping to conclusions.
I campaigned for him too.. and would do it again, Mary. Never got to meet him in person though.. glad you got to do that. I bet you made him laugh!
marym625
(17,997 posts)sheshe2
(83,780 posts)pause for the drum roll Kudos DU&!!!!
AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE ON DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND,
Take a bow DU you are the best Democratic Site Around. You Kicked our first Black President once again to the top of the page by saying SHUT THE FUCK UP! I suppose I should give you kudoos for saying please, yet I will not. What a fucking joke this place has become.
Next up. I will check the recs. I doubt there will be any surprises.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)I'm sure she will ban a large number of members now.
sheshe2
(83,780 posts)A magic wand? They posted in the BOG? How am I going to ban them?
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Someone calling the President a POS used-car saleman when His wife was denied medicine for a very serious disease by a private health insurer, or the President trading away American jobs, what's left of American middle-class prosperity, and significant American sovereignty in exchange for some pieces of silver for his posse of bankers?
NewDeal_Dem
(1,049 posts)kentuck
(111,098 posts)some folks did not want to hold his feet to the fire. They thought we were trying to burn his feet? They were perfectly happy with cold feet and wrong answers, so long as he stayed in the Democratic Party. They were like snails - slithering around on DU with no backbone.
Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)accountability for him. He is not listening to the voters. He doesn't have to anymore. He can do anything he wants including pushing for the TPP and my personal favorite (not) Race to the Top.
pa28
(6,145 posts)I never imagined we'd be desperately fighting to block our own president from pursuing Republican policy objectives. What a cruel joke.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts)kentuck
(111,098 posts)That is not something Democrats should be spending a lot of time upon...
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)we're going to look back on these as the good old days. Dem leaders, with a few notable exceptions, have basically abandoned economic planks that brought in blue collars.
BubbaFett
(361 posts)my job is to "put food on my family."
I have more than enough to do working close to 70 hours per week.
If roasting Obama's feet is another job I need to do, I want to get paid for it.
Cha
(297,270 posts)BubbaFett
(361 posts)is the getting paid part.
I gotsta get paid.
Obama has a job too, he gets paid for it and it involves "Buck Stopping."
Cha
(297,270 posts)SamKnause
(13,107 posts)I think we held his feet to the fire on that issue.
Have the torturers been prosecuted ?
I think we held his feet to the fire on that issue.
Has the White House been flooded with Wall Street insiders, Bush holdovers, Public Education foes, Pharmaceutical lobbyists, etc.
I think we held his feet to the fire on these issues.
Has NAFTA been addressed or reworked ?
I think we held his feet to the fire on this issue.
Did he support the unions when thousands were in the streets fighting for their jobs and benefits ?
I believe he lost his walking shoes on the occasions that we needed his support.
Did we hold his feet to the fire when he kept preaching bipartisanship with the party of no ?
I think we made our feelings clear.
How many times have the majority called for raising the taxes on the rich ?
Did he not hear us ?
Is he unaware ?
Candidate Obama and President Obama made many statements.
Remember the one about TRANSPARENCY ?
brooklynite
(94,585 posts)I mean, other than blogging to each other about how unhappy you are.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)as to what we might have done to get him to stop breaking his campaign promises
brooklynite
(94,585 posts)NOw, off the top of my head, I might suggest writing an actual letter to the President, rather than just "voting" in online polls; joining or forming an advocacy group in support of issues you care about; challenging your elected officials to pressure the President, upon threat of withdrawing political support...of course those would all require hard work, as opposed to complaining about what's not getting done and then blaming "TPTB" for making the electoral process useless.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)I agree. He knew long before Nov 08 that he was going to govern as a conservative republican, and nothing any of the proletariat said or did was going to change that
brooklynite
(94,585 posts)right.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Still waiting to hear what, besides marching, writing, signing petitions, supporting occupy, voting in huge democratic majorities, and giving campaign Obama an electoral landslide, we were supposed to do.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)[center]
Meaning:
To hold one accountable for a commitment, make good on a promise.
Example:
You made a fair bet with me on the Superbowl and I am going to hold your feet to the fire for payment.
Origin:
Pertains to torture used during the Crusade's. As a method for extracting confession for heresy, non-believers were positioned in a manner that allowed the inquisitor to apply flames to the feet of the accused. This was done until the accused confessed or died.
As ridiculous as that method of obtaining a confession seems by today's standards, consider a modern parallel - plea bargaining. The accused is offered the choice between a reduced sentence in exchange for a confession, or prosecution with the risk of more severe penalty (possibly death). link
[/center]
- This has been a Public Service Message for Presidents who may find it useful.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)A lot like Republicans in that way.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Let's see, we've got this really obviously deliberately stoked up hysteria over TPP although absolutely nothing has happened on it in weeks as far as anyone, including the ones screaming about it, knows.
I've seen the "I voted, canvassed, gave money and a piece of my small intestine to this president and I get the right to criticize him" bits as well. Is the "comfortable shoes" bit up next? I'm sure the proven bullshit "he said HISSELF that he's a moderate Republican!1" can't be too far behind.
We get it, people have been way too energized and in unison lately. The racism and police brutality threads were troll bait mainly because many DUers were on the same page and were actually participating in activities to do something about it. So it makes perfect sense that now that it's the new year, the crowd that absolutely LOVE the bullshit, the fighting, the disorganization and endless impotent wailing that has become GD's hallmark over the last 6 years or so are restaking their territory. And if that's the way you guys want to roll, then that's your business. Just don't pretend that any of this is anything other than that.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)We get it, people have been way too energized and in unison lately. The racism and police brutality threads were troll bait mainly because many DUers were on the same page and were actually participating in activities to do something about it. So it makes perfect sense that now that it's the new year, the crowd that absolutely LOVE the bullshit, the fighting, the disorganization and endless impotent wailing that has become GD's hallmark over the last 6 years or so are restaking their territory.
We came dangerously close to having a moment of solidarity. This will not stand.
You couldn't have nailed it any harder if you tried.
Number23
(24,544 posts)And over something that has had no movement in weeks (that anyone knows of), and is still largely unknown, even by the majority of people here braying the loudest about it.
The people so invested in making DU so irrelevant and unreadable act as though this place still has some political cache, as though they haven't drained if of every drop years ago. If there is a point in all of this, it is unfindable and I'm sure equally as stupid.
Ramses
(721 posts)Those awful leftists? Those hippies? Those that actually give a shit about economic justice?
I know what side im on. How about you.
Number23
(24,544 posts)but many of whom were silence as corpses when the topics of racism and police brutality were quite prevalent on this board.
And how anyone can be truly concerned about "economic justice" but not consider racism to be equally important shows that they don't really give a shit about either.
Ramses
(721 posts)But you will find many of my posts speaking up about racism and police brutality.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)It doesn't matter--I don't really care one way or another what you want to put out there, but your analysis is wrong on its face. Hint: the same people who hate police brutality are largely the same people who don't want to be hoodwinked into the TPP.
Number23
(24,544 posts)But thanks for playing the "don't trust your lying eyes" game of utter BS.
Hutzpa
(11,461 posts)on subject he knows a lot more than majority of the posters here. It defeats the purpose.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Does he need to be told, for example, that the TPP is a disaster?