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MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:24 AM Jan 2015

I am very pleased that President Obama has become a Liberal

Calling for raising taxes on the wealthy so they'd almost be paying at a rate almost as high as those in the upper middle class, for two free years of college, and so forth. None if it will pass, but I'm glad he's come around to siding with the 99%. Better late than never.

I assume he'll also announce that he's ending efforts to grab money from the 99%, to hand to the wealthiest, via the TPP and TTIP. That would only be a natural thing for our newly-minted Liberal to do, and it's something he can actually do. All by himself. So I'm sure that he will.

And maybe he'll apologize for teaming with Jamie Dimon last month to whip congressional votes to allow the Big Banks to effectively gamble with FDIC deposits. Risking the ability of FDIC to guarantee savings bank deposits, just so Jamie (and Lloyd and the rest of the White House regulars) can make even more money isn't a very Liberal thing to do, I'm sure that the President feels awful.

I look forward to this SOTU address. Clearly, we'll be seeing a lot of change, real change, and for the better, in our country over the next two years.

114 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I am very pleased that President Obama has become a Liberal (Original Post) MannyGoldstein Jan 2015 OP
Whatcha smoking? 840high Jan 2015 #1
reality Skittles Jan 2015 #13
I kind of predicted this the night of the midterms JonLP24 Jan 2015 #2
Seriously? You don't think the republicans will raise taxes on the rich? Zorra Jan 2015 #3
"President announces intention to wear comfortable shoes on Tuesday" RufusTFirefly Jan 2015 #4
Fucking hilarious! Obama really does think we are "morans." blkmusclmachine Jan 2015 #5
Pic URL: https://jahanc.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/obama-laughing-on-af1.jpg blkmusclmachine Jan 2015 #6
No watch the SOTU and see him announce the KeystoneXL is dead. The Justice department is bringing Vincardog Jan 2015 #15
Actually, I wonder if the KeystoneXL is not economically feasible any more, but will be djean111 Jan 2015 #32
i read reports that the decline in the price of oil killed it. i'm sure it will come back at some ND-Dem Jan 2015 #49
It is just a sugar tit for us to suck on. zeemike Jan 2015 #7
Ooh---Sugar Tits----My fave breakfast cereal... nikto Jan 2015 #71
He no longer has to worry about Democrats losing. JayhawkSD Jan 2015 #8
Exactly ann--- Jan 2015 #54
Actually, he no longer has to worry about Democrats winning. woo me with science Jan 2015 #110
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2015 #9
"I assume he'll also announce that he's ending efforts to grab money from the 99%" Veilex Jan 2015 #10
Legacy. Fearless Jan 2015 #11
Exactly. BeanMusical Jan 2015 #96
you're STILL not distracted by the shiny numbers, Manny Skittles Jan 2015 #12
Thank you for this. I am beyond laughing at Oligarchy Theater, woo me with science Jan 2015 #14
Amen. 840high Jan 2015 #25
I'll add my thanks to yours. nt Nay Jan 2015 #40
Yes. I'm so impressed he finally wants to tax the rich, help the middle class, at a time RiverLover Jan 2015 #16
Haven't you heard? GummyBearz Jan 2015 #21
Yeah, I remember being told to 'wait' too. Wait til he got a year in, then two years, then a term.. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #50
That's it really. SammyWinstonJack Jan 2015 #23
My only question is an either-or-or .... Scuba Jan 2015 #17
A first-term Senator raised almost a billion dollars for his campaign BrotherIvan Jan 2015 #42
A first-term Senator raised almost a billion dollars for his campaign ... Scuba Jan 2015 #43
Me too. RiverLover Jan 2015 #51
Krugman: Why the One Percent Hates Obama - Their tax rates back to pre-Reagan levels pampango Jan 2015 #18
Stop injecting FACTS into a Obama Hatefest! BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #27
I guess Krugman missed the report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy RiverLover Jan 2015 #36
"state and local taxes". Not really a surprise since republicans control most states. pampango Jan 2015 #37
A lot of "red" states have no state income tax Art_from_Ark Jan 2015 #101
True but those red states with no income tax rely on more regressive sales and property taxes. pampango Jan 2015 #105
I would like to see more comparisons than just California versus two Southern states Art_from_Ark Jan 2015 #106
What a crappy way to spin it. joshcryer Jan 2015 #93
Doesn'r really address the OP zipplewrath Jan 2015 #52
"I'm glad he's come around to siding with the 99%" seems inconsistent with Krugman's pampango Jan 2015 #56
Just because zipplewrath Jan 2015 #57
Looks like... What, a 3% change? MannyGoldstein Jan 2015 #58
Yep, he's free to propose all kinds of stuff that will go nowhere since the gop owns capitol hill KG Jan 2015 #19
Yep. The GOP won Congress "fair" and square since turnout was abysmal. BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #28
Some people would vote for a pile of shit if it had a (D) attached to it. L0oniX Jan 2015 #74
Some would vote for a pile of shit if it was against Obama and the Democratic Party, too. BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #76
Bwahahahah yea right ...greater good for the oligarchy. L0oniX Jan 2015 #77
Wake up and smell the global economy, L0onix. We live in a GLOBAL oligarchy. BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #80
When are you moving to Bangladesh? L0oniX Jan 2015 #81
I'm an American who knows how to make lemonade out of lemons (as opposed to sucking on them). BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #84
LMAO ...yea work with the pile of shit you're dealt. L0oniX Jan 2015 #85
It's better than running away like a coward to Bangladesh. eom BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #88
LMFAO ...are you ok? L0oniX Jan 2015 #90
Fine, thank you. You? You seem to "lol" a lot, to the point that it's just...odd. eom BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #107
This again? Unknown Beatle Jan 2015 #78
Some would rather blame imaginary Dems who didn't vote. L0oniX Jan 2015 #83
Yes. I got that. Hence the word fair in quotation marks. BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #87
Do you think maybe the turnout Unknown Beatle Jan 2015 #95
The Apologists Can Be Oblivious colsohlibgal Jan 2015 #20
I think that Obama did lots of things "wrong". But, ladjf Jan 2015 #41
I have to say that I agree with you Stellar Jan 2015 #22
"The Politics of Gesture" Huffpo, 12 hrs ago RiverLover Jan 2015 #24
Yet another of my personalities MannyGoldstein Jan 2015 #26
Your psychotherapist probably has a list. Jackpine Radical Jan 2015 #63
+1 The more the better. L0oniX Jan 2015 #86
Yes indeed! SammyWinstonJack Jan 2015 #33
Great link. woo me with science Jan 2015 #112
What is really funny is that NOW it is okay to wax poetic about those glitter-shitting djean111 Jan 2015 #29
+1000000000 woo me with science Jan 2015 #59
Now that sums things up quite nicely. JEB Jan 2015 #66
The next 2 years will be a warmed over repeat of the pre 2008 campaign trail. L0oniX Jan 2015 #79
Oooh. Another Obama-bashing OP from left-leaning Independent Manny. BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #30
"left-leaning Independent Manny" MannyGoldstein Jan 2015 #31
Yep. Left-leaning Independent. Because no matter what you're registered as, BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #34
Barack Obama ran as a progressive. The day of his inaguration he let us know rhett o rick Jan 2015 #38
Couldn't agree more. Perfecty stated. JEB Jan 2015 #67
Great post. RiverLover Jan 2015 #69
I keep looking for "like" buttons on post dflprincess Jan 2015 #94
Thanks. Keep up the fight. nm rhett o rick Jan 2015 #102
+10000000 woo me with science Jan 2015 #109
you get the "Super Post!" tag Agony Jan 2015 #113
Thanks. We need to start fighting as if lives depend on it and they do. rhett o rick Jan 2015 #114
He comes across as a traditional Democrat AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #61
"traditional Democratic values" YoungDemCA Jan 2015 #45
Let's start with one. MannyGoldstein Jan 2015 #48
Don't you have a Hillary post to go kick? Capt. Obvious Jan 2015 #44
LOL +1 L0oniX Jan 2015 #73
I see Manny as a Socialist Democrat. Now I am a Left-leaning Independent, my dear Autumn Jan 2015 #55
Seems you are a bit obsessed with Manny. He's just a normal uncompromising Dem voter. L0oniX Jan 2015 #75
Thank you. snappyturtle Jan 2015 #35
Obama is no liberal Man from Pickens Jan 2015 #39
Those principles... YoungDemCA Jan 2015 #46
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jan 2015 #47
Too late ann--- Jan 2015 #53
It's safe to make such a proposal now NorthCarolina Jan 2015 #60
Hmmm.....is this 3rd Way Manny I have the pleasure to read? Demeter Jan 2015 #62
THIS JUST IN! President Obama ISN'T a Liberal; he's a terrorist brooklynite Jan 2015 #64
Do you think the drone effort is a good idea? MannyGoldstein Jan 2015 #82
Honestly, I don't know... brooklynite Jan 2015 #89
How would you define a terrorist MannyGoldstein Jan 2015 #98
A terrorist action is targeted directly AT civilians...to cause terror brooklynite Jan 2015 #99
Suppose we destroyed an entire city MannyGoldstein Jan 2015 #103
Yes, he is now a liberal, but ... DrBulldog Jan 2015 #65
Day late and a dollar short. JEB Jan 2015 #68
In the abridged words of Johnnie Carson: "You are correct, Reality-Breath" nikto Jan 2015 #70
This will piss off all the "right" people. L0oniX Jan 2015 #72
Isn't it a bit odd Nite Owl Jan 2015 #91
Priorities. Octafish Jan 2015 #92
Kick and R. BeanMusical Jan 2015 #97
Welcome to the party, Manny! Party on, Wayne. Party on, Garth. Major Hogwash Jan 2015 #100
Put a fork in me! MannyGoldstein Jan 2015 #104
Kick, especially after a SOTU delivering TPP evisceration by "trade" in a sea of populist lies. woo me with science Jan 2015 #108
kick woo me with science Jan 2015 #111

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
2. I kind of predicted this the night of the midterms
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:19 AM
Jan 2015

the thread which I can't remember specifically the contents asked the question what they hoped for the remainder of Obama's presidency & the the OP featured some very low ball goals when I felt as the last of defense against House & Senate right-wing majorities & no longer as compromised as he was prior to the 'lame duck' period you'd see some of his best work as President. There was early evidence of this with the telling them to go to hell basically. I can't think of all the changes & choice but one of them was the executive order on Immigration enforcement reform.

on edit - I clearly didn't fully read the OP, there are still causes for concern which I agree with.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
4. "President announces intention to wear comfortable shoes on Tuesday"
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:24 AM
Jan 2015

Finally! Hallelujah!




Next up: Single payer!

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
15. No watch the SOTU and see him announce the KeystoneXL is dead. The Justice department is bringing
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:44 AM
Jan 2015

Charges against the Banksters as well as the War Criminals from the last administration.

If the President has really transformed himself he will do this as well as reschedule MJ.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
32. Actually, I wonder if the KeystoneXL is not economically feasible any more, but will be
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:44 PM
Jan 2015

dramatically canceled as a look! there's a kitten!, for the TPP.
IMO there is NOTHING that is fair trade (heh) for the TPP. Nothing at all.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
49. i read reports that the decline in the price of oil killed it. i'm sure it will come back at some
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 04:49 PM
Jan 2015

point too.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
7. It is just a sugar tit for us to suck on.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:30 AM
Jan 2015

So that we can't be angry with him when he signs the TPP.
All we are going to get are words...lots of nice words...and that is all some people want.

 

JayhawkSD

(3,163 posts)
8. He no longer has to worry about Democrats losing.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 02:28 AM
Jan 2015

Now that Democrats have actually lost, he no longer has to worry about losing elections.
Of course, if he'd done stuff like this earlier, we might not have lost.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
110. Actually, he no longer has to worry about Democrats winning.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 10:38 AM
Jan 2015


Here comes the TPP, all wrapped up in populist lies.


The Democratic Party's Deceitful Game":
They are willing to bravely support any progressive action as long as there's no chance it can pass.
http://www.salon.com/2010/02/23/democrats_34/


We have united oligarchy, not gridlocked democracy.

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

 

Veilex

(1,555 posts)
10. "I assume he'll also announce that he's ending efforts to grab money from the 99%"
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 02:36 AM
Jan 2015

Hey, whoa now buddy. Lets not get carried away! You have to understand, TPP and TTIP is only there to benefit the people. All that money and the subversion of consumer and environmental protection laws is really just to help the job creators be able to make more jobs for us! Lord knows we don't have enough low and minimum wage jobs for everyone yet, so we need a few more! And if, by chance, there ends up be a bit more toxic pollutants in the environment, well, that's just another great opportunity for high-risk, low reward employment! I mean, who wouldn't want to be employed, right?

If you're not careful, people might think you're actually anti FREE TRADE!!! I mean, that'd be positively un-American! Everyone knows we have to foster greed in our great country as much as possible in order to be better than everyone else. Its the American way!

"I pledge allegiance, to Coca-Cola, and to the dollar bill for which it costs..."

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
14. Thank you for this. I am beyond laughing at Oligarchy Theater,
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:38 AM
Jan 2015

that is ripping apart countless human lives and mocking us while doing it.

Thank you for exposing the endless parade of manipulation and lies. Thank you for refusing to pretend about what is being done, cruelly and deliberately and relentlessly, to this nation and its people, by purchased sociopaths pretending to be our representatives.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
16. Yes. I'm so impressed he finally wants to tax the rich, help the middle class, at a time
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:17 AM
Jan 2015

when it is least likely to become reality.

Bravo for waiting for a rethug majority Mr President!!

 

GummyBearz

(2,931 posts)
21. Haven't you heard?
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:01 AM
Jan 2015

Its all part of a master plan. I don't know many details myself, but I was told on another thread how the last 6 years have all been part of the plan leading up to this point. Now, when the republicans veto the proposed taxes on the rich, they will look REALLY BAD. That was the plan all along! We got them right where we want them!!

It personally makes me very eager to see the next great step of this master plan circa 2022

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
50. Yeah, I remember being told to 'wait' too. Wait til he got a year in, then two years, then a term..
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 04:52 PM
Jan 2015

I wish our black president was a bit more like this guy:






“Perhaps…the nation and the world are in dire need of creative extremists.”

“Three hundred years of humiliation, abuse and deprivation cannot be expected to find voice in a whisper.”

“Time itself is neutral; it can be used either destructively or constructively. More and more I feel that the people of ill will have used time much more effectively than have the people of good will. We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people. Human progress never rolls in on wheels of inevitability; it comes through the tireless efforts of men willing to work to be co-workers with God, and without this hard work, time itself becomes an ally of the forces of social stagnation. We must use time creatively, in the knowledge that the time is always ripe to do right.”

“A social movement that only moves people is merely a revolt. A movement that changes both people and institutions is a revolution.”

“The words 'bad timing' came to be ghosts haunting our every move in Birmingham. Yet people who used this argument were ignorant of the background of our planning...they did not realize that it was ridiculous to speak of timing when the clock of history showed that the Negro had already suffered one hundred years of delay.”

“The slaveholders of America had devised with almost scientific precision their systems for keeping the Negro defenseless, emotionally and physically.”

― Martin Luther King Jr., Why We Can't Wait

SammyWinstonJack

(44,130 posts)
23. That's it really.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:54 AM
Jan 2015
...when it is least likely to become reality.

And he knows that.

Does he think we are all morons? Or in the words of his buddy, Rahm Emanuel, fucking retarded?
 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
17. My only question is an either-or-or ....
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:50 AM
Jan 2015

Was candidate Obama insincere in his campaign rhetoric, or ...

Did President Obama sell us out for money after being sworn in, or ...

Did Cheney threaten to eat his children?

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
42. A first-term Senator raised almost a billion dollars for his campaign
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 03:34 PM
Jan 2015

Or in the words of Tool

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
43. A first-term Senator raised almost a billion dollars for his campaign ...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 03:45 PM
Jan 2015

Had not thought of it in those terms before. I guess I am a dumbfuck dipshit.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
18. Krugman: Why the One Percent Hates Obama - Their tax rates back to pre-Reagan levels
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:11 AM
Jan 2015

A peculiar aspect of the Obama years has been the disconnect between the rage of Obama’s enemies and the yawns of his sort-of allies. The right denounces financial reform as a vast government takeover — and lobbies fiercely against it — while the left dismisses reform as symbols without substance. The right accuses Obama of being a socialist stealing the money of hard-working billionaires, while the left dismisses him as having done nothing to address inequality.

On all these issues, the truth is that Obama has done far more than he gets credit for — not everything you’d want, to be sure, or even most of what should be done, but enough so that the right has reason to be furious.

The latest case in point: taxes on the one percent. I keep hearing that Obama has done nothing to make the one percent pay more; the Congressional Budget Office does not agree:



According to CBO, the effective tax rate on the one percent — reflecting the end of the Bush tax cuts at the top end, plus additional taxes associated with Obamacare — is now back to pre-Reagan levels. You could argue that we should have raised taxes at the top much more, to lean against the widening of market inequality, and I would agree. But it’s still a much bigger change than I think anyone on the left seems to realize.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/why-the-one-percent-hates-obama/?_r=0

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
27. Stop injecting FACTS into a Obama Hatefest!
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:34 PM
Jan 2015

You're going to make a few left-leaning Independents on this thread predictably bashing President Obama cry.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
36. I guess Krugman missed the report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:58 PM
Jan 2015

But then, he wrote the above article last year. Can't fault him that, the report was just recently released.

1/18/2015

A recent report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy has shown that in nearly every state low and middle income families pay a larger share of their income in state and local taxes than wealthy families. The analysis showed that families with incomes below $32,000 pay 10% rate in local and state taxes. While the top 1% of families with incomes above $471,000 pay annually, 4.2%....

http://www.piercepioneer.com/new-tax-report-shows-inequities-higher-middle-lower-income-families/37000

pampango

(24,692 posts)
37. "state and local taxes". Not really a surprise since republicans control most states.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:20 PM
Jan 2015

For better worse, the president does not have much control over state and local taxes. I'll blame those regressive taxes on state legislatures and governors.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
101. A lot of "red" states have no state income tax
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 01:35 AM
Jan 2015

They include Texas, Florida, South Dakota, Wyoming, Alaska. Washington is the only "true blue" state with no state income tax.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/total_taxes/

And yet, true blue Washington is considered, by far, to be state with the most unfair tax burden

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/01/14/how-state-tax-systems-unfairly-burden-low-income-earners/

pampango

(24,692 posts)
105. True but those red states with no income tax rely on more regressive sales and property taxes.
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 06:57 AM
Jan 2015
What makes a regressive system

The taxation systems in the 10 most regressive states shared a number of features, the authors found. Four lack personal income taxes, while five have virtually flat (or non-progressive) personal income taxes. Six of the states rely too heavily on sales taxes, which are regressive because consumption and incomes do not rise in lockstep. (Consumption accounts for a larger share of income for low-wage earners than high-wage earners.)

As the chart below shows, income taxes are typically the most progressive, on average, while property taxes are slightly regressive. Sales and excise taxes tend to be very regressive, since spending as a share of income tends to fall as income rises.

&w=1484

While Delaware’s income tax is not particularly progressive, it’s heavy reliance on income taxes instead of consumption taxes make its system the least regressive overall. Though not comparable to a state, D.C. ranks as the next least regressive tax system, followed by California, Oregon, Montana and Vermont. D.C., Minnesota and Vermont make their tax systems fairer by providing generous refundable Earned Income Tax Credits to lower-wage earners.

Of course, the way a tax is structured matters, too. An income tax’s progressiveness is often determined by two factors: a tax rate that gradually rises with income and the availability of refundable tax credits targeted at the lowest earners. As the chart below shows, while California, Louisiana and Alabama all levy personal income taxes, California’s is far more progressive.

&w=1484

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/01/14/how-state-tax-systems-unfairly-burden-low-income-earners/

Thanks for the links, particularly the WaPo one. I excerpted parts of it above. They were quite informative.

The CNN link showed the difference between Oregon and Washington. Oregon was high (#3) on the income tax ranking but on the bottom (#50) for sales taxes. Washington was about the opposite: no income tax and high (#3) in sales taxes.

In general, 8 of the top 10 states in terms of sales tax are Southern red states - Washington and Hawaii being the exceptions - while only 2 of these Southern red states (Kentucky and North Carolina) were in the top 10 in terms of income taxes.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
106. I would like to see more comparisons than just California versus two Southern states
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 09:27 AM
Jan 2015

Property taxes can be prohibitive in, for example, Northeastern states, while they may be more reasonable in other parts of the country.

Sales taxes are certainly regressive. Arkansas seems to have a four- or five-tiered sales tax structure-- 4.5% for food items, 9% for non-food items (including pep drinks, it seems), 10.5% tax on alcohol, and 14% tourist tax. Some pharmaceuticals are not taxed, especially for seniors.

Also, parts of the above taxes may be local and not statewide.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
52. Doesn'r really address the OP
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 05:25 PM
Jan 2015

But I'm not sure you even read the OP, and you're probably not reading this either so....

pampango

(24,692 posts)
56. "I'm glad he's come around to siding with the 99%" seems inconsistent with Krugman's
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 06:23 PM
Jan 2015

assessment that the 1% hates him. If that "Doesn'r really address the OP", so be it.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
57. Just because
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 06:35 PM
Jan 2015

Just because the 1% may or may not "hate" him (Buffet surely doesn't) really doesn't address the specific concerns of the OP.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
58. Looks like... What, a 3% change?
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 06:45 PM
Jan 2015

The wealthiest pay at a much lower rate than the 1% overall, something south of 20%. And this doesn't count the staggering reduction in inheritance taxes.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
28. Yep. The GOP won Congress "fair" and square since turnout was abysmal.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:35 PM
Jan 2015

Don't blame President Obama for that. However, you CAN blame a few ObamaHaters on this thread alone for it. But something tells me, you won't.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
74. Some people would vote for a pile of shit if it had a (D) attached to it.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:43 PM
Jan 2015

Some people will vote for a good (D) not attached to the oligarchy.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
76. Some would vote for a pile of shit if it was against Obama and the Democratic Party, too.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:49 PM
Jan 2015

Some people would vote for a (D) in order to actually WIN power for the Party in a body of government that legislates national policy because they actually know that their personal pet peeves aren't as important in the greater good for all.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
80. Wake up and smell the global economy, L0onix. We live in a GLOBAL oligarchy.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:55 PM
Jan 2015

Always have. Even the Vietnam war was about oligarchs (Exxon/Rockerfellers) wanting OIL, not fighting Communism or the USSR (unless they wanted Vietnamese oil, too). So let's not continue to fool ourselves, hm?

The best chances we've got is the fact that they need our labor and consumerism, and our choices are voting for the lesser of two evils. Those be the facts.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
84. I'm an American who knows how to make lemonade out of lemons (as opposed to sucking on them).
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:01 PM
Jan 2015

Judging by your past posts, you're not. So I don't need to move anywhere. Perhaps you might consider doing so since you dislike the oligarchy-infested United States so deeply. On the other hand, I did say it is a GLOBAL oligarchy, so it doesn't matter where you move, their reach extends there, too.

Unknown Beatle

(2,672 posts)
78. This again?
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:53 PM
Jan 2015
The GOP won Congress "fair" and square since turnout was abysmal.

Fair and square? Are you kidding? They won through cheating. Manipulating and hacking electronic voting machines, voter ID laws, robo-calls and mailers with wrong information about where to vote and wrong voting date, threatening voters at precincts (which they said they would do), and overall disenfranchisement of voters that vote dem.

A few million here and a few million there, but it was "fair" and square.

Maybe your post was sarcasm, but I didn't catch it.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
87. Yes. I got that. Hence the word fair in quotation marks.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:05 PM
Jan 2015

But you can't convince me or anyone else who looks at the midterm elections objectively that they could steal 50% of the vote.

In 2012, turnout was 67+%. In the last election, it was 35%. That's nearly half of the turnout in 2012. Are you trying to convince me that they stole nearly 50% of the votes through cheating, manipulating, and hacking electronic voting machines? That's a tall order for anyone to believe.

Unknown Beatle

(2,672 posts)
95. Do you think maybe the turnout
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:36 PM
Jan 2015

was low because of voter ID laws that affected millions nationwide. Yes, millions. Around 600,000 registered Texas voters didn’t have one of the limited forms of ID that the law allows.

Now, add that to other states and you get the big picture. The percentage that you state would have been a lot higher if not for a law that was designed to disenfranchise voters.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
20. The Apologists Can Be Oblivious
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:33 AM
Jan 2015

Talk is cheap at this point. Where was this when he was bringing in people like Rahm Emmanuel and Larry Summers?

The Bots, the apologists, will buy it though. To them he can do no wrong.

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
41. I think that Obama did lots of things "wrong". But,
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 02:29 PM
Jan 2015

the tax reform idea is a good one and I'm glad that he is going to present it.

The important things is that the bill is a good idea and at some point MUST be enacted if our economy is to survive.

Stellar

(5,644 posts)
22. I have to say that I agree with you
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:32 AM
Jan 2015

and I hope you continue to post what you feel about the President. Maybe those who disagree with you will run for President one day and make a difference in the country too.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
24. "The Politics of Gesture" Huffpo, 12 hrs ago
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:01 PM
Jan 2015

Manny, did you write this??



The Politics of Gesture

Looking forward to Tuesday's State of the Union address, we are seeing a somewhat bolder Barack Obama. The White House has already pre-announced or leaked several "fourth-quarter initiatives," in the president's words. Some of these can be accomplished by executive order; most will require legislation.

...The time to have fought for such policies was when Obama still had a majority in Congress. But back then, in 2010, he was promoting deficit reduction.

And there are two deeper problems. None of Obama's proposals will fundamentally change the distribution of wealth and power in America. None addresses the structural erosion of decent payroll jobs.

With one hand, the administration proposes some useful, if marginal, help to working families. With the other, it is promoting trade deals such as the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) and the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), both of which will increase the power of corporations to weaken health, safety, labor and environmental regulations and increase the outsourcing of jobs.

Obama also insulted regular working people when he tried to appoint a Wall Street deal-maker, Antonio Weiss, to the top Treasury job in charge of financing the national debt. The problem was not only that Weiss had been a key figure in arranging strategies for U.S. corporations to avoid paying taxes. He had no background to qualify him for his proposed job at Treasury. He was a deal-maker, not an expert in the government bond market....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-kuttner/the-politics-of-gesture_b_6498154.html
 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
26. Yet another of my personalities
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:33 PM
Jan 2015

I can't even keep track of them all.

Maybe one of them needs to sue some of the others for copyright infringement or something.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
63. Your psychotherapist probably has a list.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:30 PM
Jan 2015

Especially if (s)he's the kind that bills separately for each personality that shows up in the session.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
86. +1 The more the better.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:05 PM
Jan 2015
Maybe one of them needs to sue some of the others for copyright infringement or something.
LMFAO

SammyWinstonJack

(44,130 posts)
33. Yes indeed!
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:48 PM
Jan 2015
With one hand, the administration proposes some useful, if marginal, help to working families. With the other, it is promoting trade deals such as the Trans Pacific Partnership (TTP) and the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), both of which will increase the power of corporations to weaken health, safety, labor and environmental and increase the outsourcing of jobs.


Playing both sides of the field. Such a luxury.
 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
29. What is really funny is that NOW it is okay to wax poetic about those glitter-shitting
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:37 PM
Jan 2015

unicorns, after years of being told to STFU about them.

TTP and TTIP - makes all the rhetoric a sham.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
79. The next 2 years will be a warmed over repeat of the pre 2008 campaign trail.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:54 PM
Jan 2015

Zombie hope and change will be seeking brains to eat.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
31. "left-leaning Independent Manny"
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:41 PM
Jan 2015

Please correct that to "registered Democrats who simply favors traditional Democtaic values Manny" when you get a moment.

Is anything in my OP inaccurate?

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
34. Yep. Left-leaning Independent. Because no matter what you're registered as,
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:48 PM
Jan 2015

your posts continuously criticizing this president - even for things he hasn't even done - has you come across as a Left-Leaning Independent rather than a self-proclaimed registered Democrat. Sorry, Manny. No correction will be forthcoming.

As for the accuracy of your OP...tone matters, and in this case, the sarcasm while attacking President Obama's sincerity was what you were going for, and you know it.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
38. Barack Obama ran as a progressive. The day of his inaguration he let us know
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:22 PM
Jan 2015

that he was only fooling. He had Rick Warren say a prayer at the inauguration, a clear shot across the bow of the left. He went on to appoint Rahm Emanuel and many, many other conservatives including Penny Pritzker. He fired Dean and Van Jones and didn't support ACORN as it was decimated. He is conservative with his stands on the TPP, fracking, the Patriot Act, domestic spying, persecution of whistle-blowers and journalists, indefinite detention, drone killing, war in the middle east, Wall Street, an unrestricted NSA/CIA Deep State, etc. Now he is speaking out like a progressive. Why now? Some are thinking it's just show, now that the Republicans have control of Congress. I don't hate the President, I want change.

How many of our school children must live in poverty (currently 51%) before you agree we need change? Conservative Democrats don't offer change.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
114. Thanks. We need to start fighting as if lives depend on it and they do.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 01:14 AM
Jan 2015

H. Clinton represents the wealthy. We need change.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
61. He comes across as a traditional Democrat
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:13 PM
Jan 2015

Of course some Third Way® types have lost track of just what that entails, and thus don't recognize one when they see one.

Autumn

(45,066 posts)
55. I see Manny as a Socialist Democrat. Now I am a Left-leaning Independent, my dear
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 06:12 PM
Jan 2015

dear DU friend tells me that all the time. In fact every time she sees me she tells me that's what I am. I am really working on maintaining our friendship, but it is hard.

Is perhaps the label Left-leaning Independent supposed to be an insult? Because I am taking great pride in it.

snappyturtle

(14,656 posts)
35. Thank you.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:56 PM
Jan 2015

The only credit I can give our President at this time is the strength he'll have to muster to spew a bunch of empty rhetoric (SOTU). I haven't decided if I can watch yet or not. I suppose I will although it will depress me....further.

 

Man from Pickens

(1,713 posts)
39. Obama is no liberal
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:37 PM
Jan 2015

No liberal would come within a light year of his perpetual war policy, nor would any liberal kiss banker ass like he does, nor would any liberal countenance Obama's surveillance state, nor a myriad of other right-wing/corporatist policies that "progressives" accept for the sole and exclusive reason that they come from a black Democratic President.

Obama can have "progressive". "Liberals" stand for principles that Obama has completely abandoned - things like peace on Earth, due process, equality under the law, personal privacy, and not selling your fellow man out to make a buck.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
46. Those principles...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 03:54 PM
Jan 2015

...are ideals. Reality is more complex, of course.

"Peace on Earth". When did that ever exist?

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
60. It's safe to make such a proposal now
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:04 PM
Jan 2015

that the GOP controls both houses of congress and would NEVER pass such a thing. Notice he never made such a proposal when Democrats controlled both houses, and income disparity was no secret then either. Just more kabuki theater for the clueless masses if you ask me.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
62. Hmmm.....is this 3rd Way Manny I have the pleasure to read?
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:30 PM
Jan 2015

Otherwise, the sarcasm tag is missing....

brooklynite

(94,520 posts)
89. Honestly, I don't know...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:07 PM
Jan 2015

I accept that there are people in the world who desire to do us harm.

I accept that, absent an unrealistic, pacifist, isolationist policy, military engagement with militants is unavoidable.

I accept that drones are safer for American troops then sending them into the field.

Is our current policy a "Net Positive"? I don't know. But "Net Negative" doesn't equate to terrorism.

brooklynite

(94,520 posts)
99. A terrorist action is targeted directly AT civilians...to cause terror
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 12:59 AM
Jan 2015

That is not the same thing as targeting militants who may be in proximity to civilians, intentionally or coincidentally.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
103. Suppose we destroyed an entire city
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 02:33 AM
Jan 2015

because we knew a few of our enemy were hiding there?

I'm guessing that you'd agree with me that this would be wrong, whatever it might be called?

 

DrBulldog

(841 posts)
65. Yes, he is now a liberal, but ...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:21 PM
Jan 2015

we have consequently learned a terrible truth - since it took him SIX years to become one, he is, in reality, a horribly slow learner.

 

nikto

(3,284 posts)
70. In the abridged words of Johnnie Carson: "You are correct, Reality-Breath"
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:33 PM
Jan 2015

You make good, though uncomfortable points.

I'll be waiting for his NEW POSITION (i.e. reversed) on TPP as well.

But I'm also waiting for Godzilla to clean-up Fukushima.
Think it'll happen?


Nite Owl

(11,303 posts)
91. Isn't it a bit odd
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:14 PM
Jan 2015

to be introducing all these ideas when they can't be passed through a GOP Senate and House? Good ideas but not stuff that is going to be passed any time soon.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
100. Welcome to the party, Manny! Party on, Wayne. Party on, Garth.
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 01:01 AM
Jan 2015

You're 10 years late, but better late than never, I guess.

Didn't you support John Kerry for President back in 2004?
Didn't you see who gave the Keynote Address at the Democratic National Convention that year?

That's right, it was none other than Barack Hussein Obama!!

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