General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI am very pleased that President Obama has become a Liberal
Calling for raising taxes on the wealthy so they'd almost be paying at a rate almost as high as those in the upper middle class, for two free years of college, and so forth. None if it will pass, but I'm glad he's come around to siding with the 99%. Better late than never.
I assume he'll also announce that he's ending efforts to grab money from the 99%, to hand to the wealthiest, via the TPP and TTIP. That would only be a natural thing for our newly-minted Liberal to do, and it's something he can actually do. All by himself. So I'm sure that he will.
And maybe he'll apologize for teaming with Jamie Dimon last month to whip congressional votes to allow the Big Banks to effectively gamble with FDIC deposits. Risking the ability of FDIC to guarantee savings bank deposits, just so Jamie (and Lloyd and the rest of the White House regulars) can make even more money isn't a very Liberal thing to do, I'm sure that the President feels awful.
I look forward to this SOTU address. Clearly, we'll be seeing a lot of change, real change, and for the better, in our country over the next two years.
840high
(17,196 posts)Skittles
(153,159 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)the thread which I can't remember specifically the contents asked the question what they hoped for the remainder of Obama's presidency & the the OP featured some very low ball goals when I felt as the last of defense against House & Senate right-wing majorities & no longer as compromised as he was prior to the 'lame duck' period you'd see some of his best work as President. There was early evidence of this with the telling them to go to hell basically. I can't think of all the changes & choice but one of them was the executive order on Immigration enforcement reform.
on edit - I clearly didn't fully read the OP, there are still causes for concern which I agree with.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Finally! Hallelujah!
Next up: Single payer!
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Charges against the Banksters as well as the War Criminals from the last administration.
If the President has really transformed himself he will do this as well as reschedule MJ.
djean111
(14,255 posts)dramatically canceled as a look! there's a kitten!, for the TPP.
IMO there is NOTHING that is fair trade (heh) for the TPP. Nothing at all.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)point too.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)So that we can't be angry with him when he signs the TPP.
All we are going to get are words...lots of nice words...and that is all some people want.
nikto
(3,284 posts)JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)Now that Democrats have actually lost, he no longer has to worry about losing elections.
Of course, if he'd done stuff like this earlier, we might not have lost.
That's the coward's way.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Here comes the TPP, all wrapped up in populist lies.
They are willing to bravely support any progressive action as long as there's no chance it can pass.
http://www.salon.com/2010/02/23/democrats_34/
We have united oligarchy, not gridlocked democracy.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
Veilex
(1,555 posts)Hey, whoa now buddy. Lets not get carried away! You have to understand, TPP and TTIP is only there to benefit the people. All that money and the subversion of consumer and environmental protection laws is really just to help the job creators be able to make more jobs for us! Lord knows we don't have enough low and minimum wage jobs for everyone yet, so we need a few more! And if, by chance, there ends up be a bit more toxic pollutants in the environment, well, that's just another great opportunity for high-risk, low reward employment! I mean, who wouldn't want to be employed, right?
If you're not careful, people might think you're actually anti FREE TRADE!!! I mean, that'd be positively un-American! Everyone knows we have to foster greed in our great country as much as possible in order to be better than everyone else. Its the American way!
"I pledge allegiance, to Coca-Cola, and to the dollar bill for which it costs..."
Fearless
(18,421 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Skittles
(153,159 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)that is ripping apart countless human lives and mocking us while doing it.
Thank you for exposing the endless parade of manipulation and lies. Thank you for refusing to pretend about what is being done, cruelly and deliberately and relentlessly, to this nation and its people, by purchased sociopaths pretending to be our representatives.
840high
(17,196 posts)Nay
(12,051 posts)RiverLover
(7,830 posts)when it is least likely to become reality.
Bravo for waiting for a rethug majority Mr President!!
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Its all part of a master plan. I don't know many details myself, but I was told on another thread how the last 6 years have all been part of the plan leading up to this point. Now, when the republicans veto the proposed taxes on the rich, they will look REALLY BAD. That was the plan all along! We got them right where we want them!!
It personally makes me very eager to see the next great step of this master plan circa 2022
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)I wish our black president was a bit more like this guy:
Perhaps
the nation and the world are in dire need of creative extremists.
Three hundred years of humiliation, abuse and deprivation cannot be expected to find voice in a whisper.
Time itself is neutral; it can be used either destructively or constructively. More and more I feel that the people of ill will have used time much more effectively than have the people of good will. We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people. Human progress never rolls in on wheels of inevitability; it comes through the tireless efforts of men willing to work to be co-workers with God, and without this hard work, time itself becomes an ally of the forces of social stagnation. We must use time creatively, in the knowledge that the time is always ripe to do right.
A social movement that only moves people is merely a revolt. A movement that changes both people and institutions is a revolution.
The words 'bad timing' came to be ghosts haunting our every move in Birmingham. Yet people who used this argument were ignorant of the background of our planning...they did not realize that it was ridiculous to speak of timing when the clock of history showed that the Negro had already suffered one hundred years of delay.
The slaveholders of America had devised with almost scientific precision their systems for keeping the Negro defenseless, emotionally and physically.
― Martin Luther King Jr., Why We Can't Wait
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)And he knows that.
Does he think we are all morons? Or in the words of his buddy, Rahm Emanuel, fucking retarded?
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Was candidate Obama insincere in his campaign rhetoric, or ...
Did President Obama sell us out for money after being sworn in, or ...
Did Cheney threaten to eat his children?
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Or in the words of Tool
All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Had not thought of it in those terms before. I guess I am a dumbfuck dipshit.
Damn.
pampango
(24,692 posts)A peculiar aspect of the Obama years has been the disconnect between the rage of Obamas enemies and the yawns of his sort-of allies. The right denounces financial reform as a vast government takeover and lobbies fiercely against it while the left dismisses reform as symbols without substance. The right accuses Obama of being a socialist stealing the money of hard-working billionaires, while the left dismisses him as having done nothing to address inequality.
On all these issues, the truth is that Obama has done far more than he gets credit for not everything youd want, to be sure, or even most of what should be done, but enough so that the right has reason to be furious.
The latest case in point: taxes on the one percent. I keep hearing that Obama has done nothing to make the one percent pay more; the Congressional Budget Office does not agree:
According to CBO, the effective tax rate on the one percent reflecting the end of the Bush tax cuts at the top end, plus additional taxes associated with Obamacare is now back to pre-Reagan levels. You could argue that we should have raised taxes at the top much more, to lean against the widening of market inequality, and I would agree. But its still a much bigger change than I think anyone on the left seems to realize.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/why-the-one-percent-hates-obama/?_r=0
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)You're going to make a few left-leaning Independents on this thread predictably bashing President Obama cry.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)But then, he wrote the above article last year. Can't fault him that, the report was just recently released.
1/18/2015
http://www.piercepioneer.com/new-tax-report-shows-inequities-higher-middle-lower-income-families/37000
pampango
(24,692 posts)For better worse, the president does not have much control over state and local taxes. I'll blame those regressive taxes on state legislatures and governors.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)They include Texas, Florida, South Dakota, Wyoming, Alaska. Washington is the only "true blue" state with no state income tax.
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/total_taxes/
And yet, true blue Washington is considered, by far, to be state with the most unfair tax burden
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/01/14/how-state-tax-systems-unfairly-burden-low-income-earners/
pampango
(24,692 posts)What makes a regressive system
The taxation systems in the 10 most regressive states shared a number of features, the authors found. Four lack personal income taxes, while five have virtually flat (or non-progressive) personal income taxes. Six of the states rely too heavily on sales taxes, which are regressive because consumption and incomes do not rise in lockstep. (Consumption accounts for a larger share of income for low-wage earners than high-wage earners.)
As the chart below shows, income taxes are typically the most progressive, on average, while property taxes are slightly regressive. Sales and excise taxes tend to be very regressive, since spending as a share of income tends to fall as income rises.
&w=1484
While Delawares income tax is not particularly progressive, its heavy reliance on income taxes instead of consumption taxes make its system the least regressive overall. Though not comparable to a state, D.C. ranks as the next least regressive tax system, followed by California, Oregon, Montana and Vermont. D.C., Minnesota and Vermont make their tax systems fairer by providing generous refundable Earned Income Tax Credits to lower-wage earners.
Of course, the way a tax is structured matters, too. An income taxs progressiveness is often determined by two factors: a tax rate that gradually rises with income and the availability of refundable tax credits targeted at the lowest earners. As the chart below shows, while California, Louisiana and Alabama all levy personal income taxes, Californias is far more progressive.
&w=1484
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/01/14/how-state-tax-systems-unfairly-burden-low-income-earners/
Thanks for the links, particularly the WaPo one. I excerpted parts of it above. They were quite informative.
The CNN link showed the difference between Oregon and Washington. Oregon was high (#3) on the income tax ranking but on the bottom (#50) for sales taxes. Washington was about the opposite: no income tax and high (#3) in sales taxes.
In general, 8 of the top 10 states in terms of sales tax are Southern red states - Washington and Hawaii being the exceptions - while only 2 of these Southern red states (Kentucky and North Carolina) were in the top 10 in terms of income taxes.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Property taxes can be prohibitive in, for example, Northeastern states, while they may be more reasonable in other parts of the country.
Sales taxes are certainly regressive. Arkansas seems to have a four- or five-tiered sales tax structure-- 4.5% for food items, 9% for non-food items (including pep drinks, it seems), 10.5% tax on alcohol, and 14% tourist tax. Some pharmaceuticals are not taxed, especially for seniors.
Also, parts of the above taxes may be local and not statewide.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)But I'm not sure you even read the OP, and you're probably not reading this either so....
pampango
(24,692 posts)assessment that the 1% hates him. If that "Doesn'r really address the OP", so be it.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Just because the 1% may or may not "hate" him (Buffet surely doesn't) really doesn't address the specific concerns of the OP.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)The wealthiest pay at a much lower rate than the 1% overall, something south of 20%. And this doesn't count the staggering reduction in inheritance taxes.
KG
(28,751 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Don't blame President Obama for that. However, you CAN blame a few ObamaHaters on this thread alone for it. But something tells me, you won't.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Some people will vote for a good (D) not attached to the oligarchy.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Some people would vote for a (D) in order to actually WIN power for the Party in a body of government that legislates national policy because they actually know that their personal pet peeves aren't as important in the greater good for all.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Always have. Even the Vietnam war was about oligarchs (Exxon/Rockerfellers) wanting OIL, not fighting Communism or the USSR (unless they wanted Vietnamese oil, too). So let's not continue to fool ourselves, hm?
The best chances we've got is the fact that they need our labor and consumerism, and our choices are voting for the lesser of two evils. Those be the facts.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Might as well get used to living like a serf.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Judging by your past posts, you're not. So I don't need to move anywhere. Perhaps you might consider doing so since you dislike the oligarchy-infested United States so deeply. On the other hand, I did say it is a GLOBAL oligarchy, so it doesn't matter where you move, their reach extends there, too.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)Fair and square? Are you kidding? They won through cheating. Manipulating and hacking electronic voting machines, voter ID laws, robo-calls and mailers with wrong information about where to vote and wrong voting date, threatening voters at precincts (which they said they would do), and overall disenfranchisement of voters that vote dem.
A few million here and a few million there, but it was "fair" and square.
Maybe your post was sarcasm, but I didn't catch it.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)But you can't convince me or anyone else who looks at the midterm elections objectively that they could steal 50% of the vote.
In 2012, turnout was 67+%. In the last election, it was 35%. That's nearly half of the turnout in 2012. Are you trying to convince me that they stole nearly 50% of the votes through cheating, manipulating, and hacking electronic voting machines? That's a tall order for anyone to believe.
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)was low because of voter ID laws that affected millions nationwide. Yes, millions. Around 600,000 registered Texas voters didnt have one of the limited forms of ID that the law allows.
Now, add that to other states and you get the big picture. The percentage that you state would have been a lot higher if not for a law that was designed to disenfranchise voters.
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Talk is cheap at this point. Where was this when he was bringing in people like Rahm Emmanuel and Larry Summers?
The Bots, the apologists, will buy it though. To them he can do no wrong.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)the tax reform idea is a good one and I'm glad that he is going to present it.
The important things is that the bill is a good idea and at some point MUST be enacted if our economy is to survive.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)and I hope you continue to post what you feel about the President. Maybe those who disagree with you will run for President one day and make a difference in the country too.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Manny, did you write this??
The Politics of Gesture
Looking forward to Tuesday's State of the Union address, we are seeing a somewhat bolder Barack Obama. The White House has already pre-announced or leaked several "fourth-quarter initiatives," in the president's words. Some of these can be accomplished by executive order; most will require legislation.
...The time to have fought for such policies was when Obama still had a majority in Congress. But back then, in 2010, he was promoting deficit reduction.
And there are two deeper problems. None of Obama's proposals will fundamentally change the distribution of wealth and power in America. None addresses the structural erosion of decent payroll jobs.
With one hand, the administration proposes some useful, if marginal, help to working families. With the other, it is promoting trade deals such as the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) and the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), both of which will increase the power of corporations to weaken health, safety, labor and environmental regulations and increase the outsourcing of jobs.
Obama also insulted regular working people when he tried to appoint a Wall Street deal-maker, Antonio Weiss, to the top Treasury job in charge of financing the national debt. The problem was not only that Weiss had been a key figure in arranging strategies for U.S. corporations to avoid paying taxes. He had no background to qualify him for his proposed job at Treasury. He was a deal-maker, not an expert in the government bond market....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-kuttner/the-politics-of-gesture_b_6498154.html
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I can't even keep track of them all.
Maybe one of them needs to sue some of the others for copyright infringement or something.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Especially if (s)he's the kind that bills separately for each personality that shows up in the session.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Playing both sides of the field. Such a luxury.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)unicorns, after years of being told to STFU about them.
TTP and TTIP - makes all the rhetoric a sham.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Well said.
JEB
(4,748 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Zombie hope and change will be seeking brains to eat.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)How predictable.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Please correct that to "registered Democrats who simply favors traditional Democtaic values Manny" when you get a moment.
Is anything in my OP inaccurate?
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)your posts continuously criticizing this president - even for things he hasn't even done - has you come across as a Left-Leaning Independent rather than a self-proclaimed registered Democrat. Sorry, Manny. No correction will be forthcoming.
As for the accuracy of your OP...tone matters, and in this case, the sarcasm while attacking President Obama's sincerity was what you were going for, and you know it.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)that he was only fooling. He had Rick Warren say a prayer at the inauguration, a clear shot across the bow of the left. He went on to appoint Rahm Emanuel and many, many other conservatives including Penny Pritzker. He fired Dean and Van Jones and didn't support ACORN as it was decimated. He is conservative with his stands on the TPP, fracking, the Patriot Act, domestic spying, persecution of whistle-blowers and journalists, indefinite detention, drone killing, war in the middle east, Wall Street, an unrestricted NSA/CIA Deep State, etc. Now he is speaking out like a progressive. Why now? Some are thinking it's just show, now that the Republicans have control of Congress. I don't hate the President, I want change.
How many of our school children must live in poverty (currently 51%) before you agree we need change? Conservative Democrats don't offer change.
JEB
(4,748 posts)RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Thank you r o r.
dflprincess
(28,075 posts)too much time on FB, I guess.
Well said Rhett.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Agony
(2,605 posts)like you said, It Is Not About Hate.
cheers
Agony
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)H. Clinton represents the wealthy. We need change.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Of course some Third Way® types have lost track of just what that entails, and thus don't recognize one when they see one.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Like what?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)How about not working to cut the social safety net, e.g., Social Security.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Autumn
(45,066 posts)dear DU friend tells me that all the time. In fact every time she sees me she tells me that's what I am. I am really working on maintaining our friendship, but it is hard.
Is perhaps the label Left-leaning Independent supposed to be an insult? Because I am taking great pride in it.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)The only credit I can give our President at this time is the strength he'll have to muster to spew a bunch of empty rhetoric (SOTU). I haven't decided if I can watch yet or not. I suppose I will although it will depress me....further.
Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)No liberal would come within a light year of his perpetual war policy, nor would any liberal kiss banker ass like he does, nor would any liberal countenance Obama's surveillance state, nor a myriad of other right-wing/corporatist policies that "progressives" accept for the sole and exclusive reason that they come from a black Democratic President.
Obama can have "progressive". "Liberals" stand for principles that Obama has completely abandoned - things like peace on Earth, due process, equality under the law, personal privacy, and not selling your fellow man out to make a buck.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)...are ideals. Reality is more complex, of course.
"Peace on Earth". When did that ever exist?
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
ann---
(1,933 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)that the GOP controls both houses of congress and would NEVER pass such a thing. Notice he never made such a proposal when Democrats controlled both houses, and income disparity was no secret then either. Just more kabuki theater for the clueless masses if you ask me.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Otherwise, the sarcasm tag is missing....
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Do you think it's a net positive?
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)I accept that there are people in the world who desire to do us harm.
I accept that, absent an unrealistic, pacifist, isolationist policy, military engagement with militants is unavoidable.
I accept that drones are safer for American troops then sending them into the field.
Is our current policy a "Net Positive"? I don't know. But "Net Negative" doesn't equate to terrorism.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Or a terrorist action?
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)That is not the same thing as targeting militants who may be in proximity to civilians, intentionally or coincidentally.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)because we knew a few of our enemy were hiding there?
I'm guessing that you'd agree with me that this would be wrong, whatever it might be called?
DrBulldog
(841 posts)we have consequently learned a terrible truth - since it took him SIX years to become one, he is, in reality, a horribly slow learner.
JEB
(4,748 posts)nikto
(3,284 posts)You make good, though uncomfortable points.
I'll be waiting for his NEW POSITION (i.e. reversed) on TPP as well.
But I'm also waiting for Godzilla to clean-up Fukushima.
Think it'll happen?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Nite Owl
(11,303 posts)to be introducing all these ideas when they can't be passed through a GOP Senate and House? Good ideas but not stuff that is going to be passed any time soon.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Personally, I really appreciate getting on the hook for the Wall Street Banksters. Again.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)You're 10 years late, but better late than never, I guess.
Didn't you support John Kerry for President back in 2004?
Didn't you see who gave the Keynote Address at the Democratic National Convention that year?
That's right, it was none other than Barack Hussein Obama!!
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I'm done!