General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWould An Extra $10,784 Help Your Family?
Wow, thats not chump change!Found on the National Partnership For Women & Families Facebook page
raps
(34 posts)left me and actually had a job before she left it probably would have.
dkf
(37,305 posts)To fund an increase for women? What is the proposed remedy? Are all women supposed to get a raise and increase the payrolls?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Pay is the same. I realize this is a hard concept to comprehend.
In some areas of the US it is the same, read the military. They are not paying sergeant joe or Jill, they are paying an E-5 with so many years of service.
This is the way it should be all around, but I guess you would never agree this is good...clue, it also increases buying power of that family.
Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Look at Norway for example, and Germany.
But heck USA, USA, USA!!!!!
We are not number one.
Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)Equal Pay Day: Women in Europe still earn 16.4% less on average than men
Brussels, 02 March 2012 - Women across the EU continue to earn an average of 16.4% less than men, according to new figures released by the European Commission on European Equal Pay Day. This is the second Equal Pay Day at European level following its launch by the European Commission on 5 March 2011 (see IP/11/255). The EU-wide event marks the extra number of days that women must work to match the amount of money earned by men. The European Commission wants to raise awareness about this gender pay gap across the EU. This years Equal Pay Day focuses in particular on employers and comes ahead of International Women's Day on 8 March.
"European Equal Pay Day reminds us of the days and hours that women have been working 'for free' since 1 January. The principle of equal pay for equal work is written in the EU Treaties since 1957. It is high time that it is put in practice everywhere," said EU Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding, the Commissions Vice-President.
The latest figures show an average 16.4% gender pay gap in 2010 across the European Union. They confirm a slight downward trend in recent years, when the figure was around 17% or higher. The rate ranges from around 2% in Poland to more than 27% in Estonia.
The gender pay gap the average difference in gross hourly earnings between women and men across the economy as a whole is persistently high, with considerable differences between countries and sectors. It reflects the problem of balancing work and private life: many women take parental leave and have part-time jobs. Despite the generally slightly positive trend, there are Member States where the gender pay gap is widening, such as Bulgaria, France, Latvia, Hungary, Portugal and Romania.
more: http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/12/211&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But whatever, have an excellent day.
We got lots of wrk to do in this country. But we are exceptional...
Best comment I heard today on the radio generally speaking, "we are Rome with better plumbing."
Spike89
(1,569 posts)I'm 100% behind equal pay and gender should have no bearing on pay. However, you are correct that an E-5 salary is an E-5 salary whether you are a man or a woman, but it is a lot more complicated than that. The military is an excellent example, but for both ways of looking at the issue. An alternate method would be to average all the male salaries paid in the military and compare that amount to the average female salary--You'll probably find a "pay gap" pretty close to the national average.
There are at least 3 huge variables in the gender/pay issue and solutions aren't as easy as mandating equal pay. The first variable is very contentious, but lets stay with the military example for consistency. My arbitrary 1st variable is job/career selection. Base pay may be equal, but there are extra benefits available for soldiers in active combat areas--there are limited opportunities for women in combat areas compared to men. In the civilian workforce, an analog might be the high-paying jobs on a crab boat in the Bering Sea--no one denies that the jobs are dangerous and very physically demanding and therefore should pay well. There may be discrimination in hiring for those crab boat jobs, or it might be that women are too smart in general to risk themselves in that manner for a few dollars. More subtle, the same dynamic is seen in education (an area where pay grades are generally standardized like the military). More men (per capita) pursue administrative jobs within schools, they also tend to gravitate toward the higher grades and specialized curricular areas (where pay is higher. Women, for many reasons, dominate in the lower-paying elementary classrooms.
A second variable is probably as contentious--leave of absences. The military, live civilian employers must grant leaves for pregnancy. Men and women can both qualify, but women tend to take longer leaves (understandable) and a significant number choose to not return to the workforce when they've exhausted their leave. In the military, they don't care if you are 19-years old with 2 years experience, or 23 with the same experience--you are both probably the same rank/pay scale. By the time the 19-year old becomes 23, if he or she hasn't taken a maternity leave--they will almost certainly outrank the 23-year-old who took time off for a family. It doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman--taking a year or two away from your career in your 20s will put you maybe 3 years farther behind your peers.
Value discrimination. It is really a second-level discrimination event but really tough to get a handle on. This may happen in the military, but is more common in the civilian world. "Traditional" female careers are typically paid less than traditional male careers. Comparisons are difficult and assigning values is hard, but the classic example is nursing pay vs. doctor's pay. A male nurse probably makes the same salary as a female peer and a female doctor probably earns the equivelent salary as her male peers. However, because most nurses are still female and most doctors male--there is a gender gap in pay. Maybe it is more difficult to become a doctor, maybe there is more pressure/responsibility--but the question is how much should the differential be and how much is the current differential colored by gender issues?
The simplified "women make .70 on the dollar" stats are alarming, but there is a lot more to the topic of fair pay than most people are willing to admit. The military example is very good in that it is very easy to show women have pay parity and just as easy to show that men get paid considerably more on the average than women. Once you realize that, you begin to see that the issue is almost as difficult to frame as it will be to fix.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)and known to all.. men & women get paid based on the prevailing wage for the job done, and their level of experience.
Unions protect wages....and that's why so many narrow-minded, greedy bosses hate unions so much.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)as their male counterparts for the same job/expertise should have their pay increased - yes. I can't believe you even asked that.
sudopod
(5,019 posts)Think of the costs!
dkf
(37,305 posts)Let's say you are given a mandate to make pay equal but given no extra funds to do so. How do you implement this?
sudopod
(5,019 posts)sudopod
(5,019 posts)lol.
JHB
(37,160 posts)now I need a new keyboard.
We have all noticed.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,912 posts)with the same experience, education, job requirements and expectations. It would not apply from company to company but it should within companies.
Why should men get paid more than women for doing less or poorly than women on the same job? The same the other way too of course.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)*facepalm*
dkf
(37,305 posts)If you just bring up female pay, that would mean a significant increase in payroll costs. That doesn't sound feasible.
More realistic is a mostly static budget with reallocation of funding to adhere to a law I would think.
So my point is what is the solution and how realisitic is it?
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Pay women the same as men. Take it out of the profit margin of the business owner. Make it law.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"What is the proposed remedy?"
Equality.
We've done it a few times before in our nation's past-- though those instances were bitterly opposed also, and the opposition made quite a stinker out of equality for some time then too...
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)There is nothing whatever that can excuse paying a woman less to do the same work. Nothing.
I wish I could say that I'm surprised you would suggest otherwise.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Every post I ever see from you is some racist, sexist bullshit that would sound more at home on FR.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Do they just take the combined take-home income of all women in the country and men in the country and figure the difference?
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)And most lawyers are men, while most elementary school teachers are women. So this contributes to the pay gap. So do we
1. encourage more women to become lawyers, or
2. encourage more men to become teachers, or
3. raise teachers salaries, or
4. lower lawyers' salaries?
The pay gap is mostly caused by different career choices, women working fewer hours than men, and women taking more time out than men to raise families.