Anti-Vaxxer argument boiled down to its core: better dead than autistic

[Godhumor]

Last edited Sat Feb 7, 2015, 08:25 PM - Edit history (1)

And no, that is not too over the top. Considering recent events and the still proudly defiant idiots who refuse to accept the link between their horrible beliefs and the break down of herd immunity, it is clear that even being faced with the consequences of their irrational behavior won't make them see reason. Neither science nor an actual epidemic can persuade them.

Therefore, there is only one conclusion. In their minds it is better to see children die than take the chance of a child catching "the autism". So I reiterate again, these idiots are fucking stupid, incredibly dangerous and unbelievably selfish.

Edit: I should mention that I don't believe anti-vax parents actually vocalize this way or even think this way. What I am saying is that the stubborn refusal to vaccinate in light of recent events amounts to the belief that it is better for other children to possibly die than for their precious snowflake to catch autism.

[Thinkingabout]

1. My thought on anti-vaxxers is they believe junk science and the doctor who claimed this is no longer

Licensed claimed getting their children vaccinated may result in autism. Why don't they take proven facts children die from measles and other conditions can develop from mumps, chicken pox and polio. This appears as a no brainer to me. Chicken pox may result in shingles in adults and many adults are getting the shingle vaccines and polio leaves lifetime problems. I know of one guy who was blinded after chicken pox. They need to get over their foolish decision and get their children vaccinated.

[Stargazer99]

2. Maybe it is time to take out the profit motive for health care-because it is killing us

Corporate America put thermosil in the vaccines BECAUSE it was CHEAPER to produce....mercury is a known destructive element to the human body...I blame the idiots that worship unbridle capitalism for this mess
Does it ever dawn on the people of this nation to think about what is going on? Oh I know someone will post that thermosil was not a problem...anyone with scientific knowledge knows mercury is not the body's friend...but who cares as long as we can continue worshiping mammon
what is so fucking stupid is allowing cost to be the only value in this system

[Bluenorthwest]

6. And yet Canada and the Netherlands both have great health care and belief based vaccine refusers

Big outbreaks, all about 'beliefs', universal health care and all. How are the Dutch outbreaks about American anything or the people of this nation having anything dawn on them? It's about their anti vaccine nuts getting sick and making other people sick. They've had polio outbreaks in my adult lifetime, sound like fun?

[weissmam]

19. I would fact check if I were you

those compounds haven't been in Vacs in decades

[Stargazer99]

22. The element should not have been in the vacs in the first place

Because they are not in there now is not the point
the point is do you trust private business to patrol themselves when their value system is monetary? Considering the track record of corps, I don't....there needs to be some rules and regulations (government oversite) just like it is for the general public

[NuclearDem]

31. Anyone with scientific knowledge would be aware of mercury's different compounds.

And would also know the study that started this "thiomersal is bad mmk" nonsense was completely fraudulent.

That would be amazering.

[on point]

3. Better delusional than admit I am a fool

[Iggo]

16. That works on a few things, don't it.

[V0ltairesGh0st]

4. It doenst seem to be just a western/religion thing either.

Many Islamic "health professionals" seem to be on the anti-vaxx train as well.

We are giving our innocent children haraam (forbidden) substances and harmful chemicals that destroy their natural immune systems, causing disease, suffering and death. All Muslim doctors and parents should be aware of vaccine ingredients, and of the failed efficacy of vaccines. The harm is clearly greater than the benefit. The time has come to take a stand for truth.

This is what happens when people decide to irrationally "believe" something, instead of critically "think" about it, which happens most often in religious circles.

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/01/20/islam-vaccines-and-health-2/

[ColesCountyDem]

5. I wonder how autistic people feel about that sentiment? n/t

[V0ltairesGh0st]

7. Love that MLK quote..

such an incredible mind that man had.

[Spider Jerusalem]

25. Not too pleased, generally.

(NB: I'm autistic.)

The following is something I pretty much agree with:

I take the decision not to vaccinate personally. I’ve tried to have empathy for the other side, I’ve tried to tell myself that it’s none of my business, but I can’t and it is. Someone who refuses to vaccinate their children because they’re afraid of autism has made the decision that people like me are the worst possible thing that can happen to their family, and they’re putting everyone at risk because of it. I’ve been told by some anti-vaxxers that they don’t mean my brand of autism; they mean non-verbal autism, or as they are so fond of calling it, “profound autism.” I’m not about to take any solace in the idea that they’re willing to make exceptions for autistic people who can perform as neurotypical, or at least pose as little annoyance to neurotypicals as possible. That just means that I will cease to be of any value to these people if I am no longer able to pass as one of them, and that they see no value and no humanity in anyone who communicates or behaves differently from them. Tell me again who has the empathy problem?

https://medium.com/the-archipelago/im-autistic-and-believe-me-its-a-lot-better-than-measles-78cb039f4bea

[Mariana]

8. I don't think any of them believes their kids might die

if they don't vaccinate them. In their minds, there isn't any risk in skipping vaccines. They engage in magical thinking: they believe their kids either won't get any of the relevant diseases at all, or that if they do get them, the kids will get sick and then get better and will be just fine.

[Godhumor]

9. which is why I wanted to make it plain

There refusal to understand their choice had only one ending if herd immunity breaks down.

[onecaliberal]

28. That's probably true, but only because people have

been vaccinating their children for 40 years making infection rates low. If this flawed thinking continues we will he back to 40 years ago.

[dsc]

10. that really isn't fair

say a treatment had 1 in 5 chance of causing your leg to fall off and a 1 in a million chance of saving your life while it would otherwise just keep you from getting a moderately inconvenient disease. Most people wouldn't take that treatment. That doesn't mean that a person prefers being dead to losing a leg.

[Godhumor]

11. better comparison

Treatment has zero chance of causing your leg to fall off and not getting it there is a 1in 5 chance of killing at least one other child... And you still decide not to do it out of fear a leg is going to fall off, well what would you call that?

[dsc]

15. stupid but not saying that autism is worse than death

[Godhumor]

17. and they might not be saying that or think it is true

But it is what their belief boils down to. Maybe if they heart it, they will understand that fact.

I also just edited the op to make that more clear.

[weissmam]

20. brother

that's the dumbest analogy I have ever heard

moderately inconvenient disease--the next time a baby dies from a moderately inconvenient disease because some assw---le didn't get his kids vacs would you say that to the parents

[dsc]

21. for most people measles is a moderately inconvenient disease

some people, I did pick random numbers to be fair, do die of it. So the vaccine in some people, I have no idea how many, prevents death. In most of the rest it prevents a disease which is a moderate inconvenience.

[Spider Jerusalem]

26. Except vaccination has zero chance of making anyone autistic.

So that's a really stupid comparison. And the rate of adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine is one in a million. The rate of measles deaths? Three in one thousand, give or take.

[Logical]

27. 1 in 5??????? That might be your whole problem! Nt

[dsc]

30. I am not saying that is what the number is or for that matter that is what they think it is

which is what is actually important here in that we are discussing their motive and not the correctness of what they are doing.

[davidn3600]

12. To be honest, that's not a good way to look at it...

Measles and Mumps can cause complications, but the vast majority of people recover without problems within a week or two. And then they are immune for life.

With autism, there is no known cure. It becomes very, very expensive for a family with an autistic child because we have horrible mental health services in this country. Insurance will only cover mental health to a certain point....well short of what's required for a child that has special needs.

So autism would be more scary to a parent than the Measles.

[Godhumor]

13. Except measles can kill. And one death is more than all autism cases from vaccines

So I stand by my point.

[NuclearDem]

32. Measles has killed far, far, far more people than vaccines ever have or will.

[unblock]

14. they can't help it. their brains are addled from the all that fluoride in the water.

[Rozlee]

18. I don't understand why so many of them are alarmed by aluminum in vaccines.

It's probably a good prophylactic for their kids to ward off mind control from the government. Actually, the aluminum in the soda we drink, the food we prepare in our cookware and our tap water has so much more aluminum than any vaccines. If they feed their babies from formulas in cans or if mom breast feeds her baby when exposed to such aluminum in the environment, it just makes their fear over aluminum silly.

[Stargazer99]

23. And who says aluminum is harmless to the human body?

[Cal Carpenter]

24. Imagine that, people have studied this sort of thing before

If someone is worried about aluminum toxicity, focusing on the minuscule amounts in some vaccines is absurd, particularly given the indisputable massive positive impact most vaccines have on public health.

The aluminum contained in vaccines is similar to that found in a liter (about 1 quart or 32 fluid ounces) of infant formula. While infants receive about 4.4 milligrams* of aluminum in the first six months of life from vaccines, they receive more than that in their diet. Breast-fed infants ingest about 7 milligrams, formula-fed infants ingest about 38 milligrams, and infants who are fed soy formula ingest almost 117 milligrams of aluminum during the same period.
http://vec.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/vaccine-ingredients/aluminum.html

Aluminum is a trivalent cation found in its ionic form in most kinds of animal and plant tissues and in natural waters everywhere.[1] It is the third most prevalent element and the most abundant metal in the earth's crust, representing approximately 8% of total mineral components.[2] Due to its reactivity, aluminum in nature is found only in combination with other elements.

Dietary aluminum is ubiquitous but in such small quantities that it is not a significant source of concern in persons with normal elimination capacity. Urban water supplies may contain a greater concentration because water is usually treated with aluminum before becoming part of the supply. Subsequent purification processes that remove organic compounds take away many of the same compounds that bind the element in its free state, further increasing aluminum concentration.

All metals can cause disease through excess. In addition, essential metals can affect the human body in the case of deficiency or imbalance.[3] Malabsorption through diarrheal states can result in essential metal and trace element deficiencies. Toxic effects are dependent upon the amount of metal ingested, entry rate, tissue distribution, concentration achieved, and excretion rate. Mechanisms of toxicity include inhibition of enzyme activity and protein synthesis, alterations in nucleic acid function, and changes in cell membrane permeability.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/165315-overview

Aluminum is almost literally everywhere, in everything.

[Major Nikon]

29. So is ammonia

Some people have trouble understanding that toxicity depends more on dose than content.