US prosecutors weigh criminal charges against HSBC as Elizabeth Warren turns up the heat

[KoKo]

US prosecutors weigh criminal charges against HSBC as Elizabeth Warren turns up the heat

The US Department of Justice is considering bringing criminal charges against HSBC and its executives as part of its investigation into whether the bank’s Swiss subsidiary helped US clients evade taxes.

Democratic senator Elizabeth Warren called on prosecutors to “come down hard” on HSBC if the bank is found to have colluded with tax evaders on Tuesday.

Her intervention came as US government officials with knowledge of the DoJ’s investigation provided the Guardian with new details about the inquiry.

------snip---

Any criminal US prosecution against HSBC or its executives would be a huge blow for Europe’s biggest bank. HSBC was made to pay a $1.9bn fine in 2012, in a deferred prosecution agreement over money-laundering with Mexican drug cartels and breaches of US sanctions.

Under that deal, HSBC controversially escaped criminal charges and kept the banking charter that enables it to operate in the US.

The most prominent political critic of that 2012 settlement was Warren, who is renowned for her campaign for accountability for big Wall Street institutions.

“The government comes down hard on individuals who break the law time after time, and it should do the same for large financial institutions,”

the Massachusetts senator said in a statement to the Guardian on Tuesday.

The new allegations that HSBC colluded to help wealthy people and rich corporations hide money and avoid taxes are very serious, and, if true, the Department of Justice should reconsider the earlier deferred prosecution agreement it entered into with HSBC and prosecute the new violations to the full extent of the law.”

Warren’s intervention will further stoke the scandal in Washington, where members of the Senate banking committee are preparing to grill a representative of the Federal Reserve on Tuesday over how much regulators knew about US tax evasion connected to HSBC Switzerland.

The hearing comes as the public disclosure of the HSBC Swiss data – the biggest leak in banking history – reverberated across the globe.

Continued:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/10/hsbc-us-prosecutors-criminal-charges-elizabeth-warren

[HappyMe]

1. Good.

I'm glad she and the Banking Committee are pursuing this. It's about time.

[whathehell]

17. Damn, she's good!

Go Senator Warren, GO!!

[HappyMe]

18. She is very good.

I would say she has a take no prisoners attitude, but we want lots of prisoners.

[whathehell]

19. Damned right!

I'd love to see her run for prez, of course, but some here think she might

be more effective as a senator, and they may be right, I don't know.

In any case, ....I think she's giving Hillary something to think about.

[Segami]

2. K&R!!

[Agnosticsherbet]

3. She is doing and excellent job in the Senate.

[JDPriestly]

25. She would do an even better job in the White House.

In the White House, she could appoint the Secretary of the Treasury, the Attorney General, the Secretary of Commerce, etc. In the Senate, she is just one vote of many.

I want Elizabeth Warren in the White House.

I also like Bernie Sanders. The two of them would make a good team, but they are both from the Northeast and the candidates for president and vice president are normally from different parts of the country.

I do not want Hillary Clinton in the White House. I do not want anyone who is paid $400,000 by Goldman Sachs for any reason, especially not for simply giving a couple of speeches.

No use talking about reforming our financial system if you appoint the foxes in that system to guard the hen houses of the banks and brokerage houses. Hillary is bound to appoint those very foxes.

[Agnosticsherbet]

27. She is not running.

And she is doing a damn good job where she is.

[Enthusiast]

30. But we must have an honest alternative to HRC.

[Agnosticsherbet]

32. That depends on people deciding to run. We have litle control over that.

Right now, Clinton, Jim Webb, and Martin O'Malley are serious.
[link:http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/run-2016/2015/02/09/bernie-sanders-the-billionaires-may-just-win|
Bernie Sanders ]is still a possibility, but the most recent article I read tends to make me think he is not going to run because he can not collect enough funds to make a run for the White House.

As it is, I will go to the polls on Primary day and the best of the available candidates who have interviewed for the job of President will get my vote.

[TBF]

41. We will if Elizabeth succeeds -

do you know how much money HSBC has given HRC?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/10/hillary-clinton-foundation-donors-hsbc-swiss-bank

[Enthusiast]

43. Geez.

But I'm sure she'll have our best interests at heart when she gets elected.

[TBF]

48. Hillary will be strong for women, gay rights, civil rights -

but I'm not yet convinced she will be good for the economy of this country.

Granted when jobs are sent to other countries it does help people in those places. I think that is fine, but it doesn't help the folks here who find themselves pink-slipped, behind on their mortgage, unable to find another spot due to blatant age discrimination. If Congress would put into place a minimum income for all citizens of the US I might be able to accept shipping jobs elsewhere. But as it stands now it would be very hard for me to vote for such a candidate.

[Enthusiast]

50. I am with you on that. I have few doubts about Hillary on women's rights, gay rights or civil rights

But her strong ties to the banks and Wall Street, and her support for the trade deals like the TTIP and TPP, tell me she is wrong for working America.

There is excuse for pursuing these trade deals.

[JDPriestly]

66. Have you posted that article in a thread of its own?

Everyone should read it.

[TBF]

69. No my OPs tend to sink -

so I haven't bothered. Please feel free to make it an OP if you think it has merit. I do recognize Hillary's good work on civil/gay rights but I don't think she understands what it's like to be poor. She's a Goldwater Republican from the comfortable suburbs of Chicago. That is a big difference from the small labor town I grew up in (where all the dads belonged to the union because at least there was power in numbers). I don't think she's a bad person, but I also don't think she "gets" it either. She has no early clue what it's like to depend on disability checks or work in an industry for years and then see it move overseas. I don't think she understands what "paycheck to paycheck" really means. Just my view.

[Stellar]

31. I will wait until the last minute and make sure she doesn't change her mind because...

I'm ready for Senator Liz Warren!

[Agnosticsherbet]

33. Liz Warren is one of the best Senators serving.

So, fortunately, we have her for that.

[Stellar]

34. So, are you saying that's all she's good for?

I hope not.

[Agnosticsherbet]

35. No, I am saying she isn't running and I am glad to have her serving in the Senate.

[JDPriestly]

37. I'm saying that if she runs, she will win and that America needs her.

She needs to run. We need her to run.

MADem thinks she won't run because she fears scandals. Any skeletons Elizabeth Warren might have in her closet are laughable compared to those of the contenders who lead in the polls right now -- just laughable.

Her confusion about her ancestry? I dare anyone who challenges that to have their DNA tested. They probably will be surprised at who their ancestors really were. Recent immigrants may be more certain, but the offspring of old, American families may be in for some surprises.

Her marriage? She has been married and is obviously happy, so that really won't take hold as a scandal.

Her money? It's not the money that is a problem for Hillary. It is how she got it and how little she and Bill did while in office to protect the money and jobs of ordinary Americans after they had left office. It's as if traps were set during the 1990s that caught many Americans in the 200s.

Lack of experience. She can choose an experienced running mate. That's what Obama did. He had less national experience than Elizabeth Warren has.

Charisma? Elizabeth Warren has it.

We really need her to run.

[Agnosticsherbet]

46. I think she won't run becasue she is doing a job she likes, where she can make a difference, and

where she is desperately needed.

The House and the Senate are where legislation is made, not the White House.

I'd rather see her take Harry Reid's job. Even without it, she is in a place where she can guide Democratic Policy in the Senate. They even made a brand new position for her to fill to do that.

She won't run because she said so, five times.

[JDPriestly]

67. It may be Hillary who decides not to run.

If you read the article on the donors to the Clinton Foundation and their connections to various questionable activities, you may understand why I say that in the end it may be Hillary who decides not to run. Depends on what happens from now on.

Hillary has a lot of money, but she also has many, many problems. She wants to run, but she may not want to face the questions and bad press that running would bring with it.

[Agnosticsherbet]

71. Hillary is thinking about it, putting together a campaign staff, Warren is being a great Senator

and not putting together a campaign.

Hillary may not run, but until she says no, as Warren has five times, I will be watching her statements on policy.

And this policy statement will improve the ACA and help children and families.

[Enthusiast]

44. She must run.

[Agnosticsherbet]

47. She is the only one that can decide that. She has said no five times.

In her opinion, and that is the one that counts, she doesn't have to run.

She has said no without equivocation.

She is not building a team to run.

She is not contacting donors.

She is not saying she is thinking about running.

She is working her ass of in the Senate for us where she can write and guide legislation, and direct Democratic Legislatinve policy.

Maybe in 2020 or even 2024 she will run.

But she doesn't have to run now. She has been very clear about that.

[Enthusiast]

51. Millions of us are

AGAINST Hillary.

[Agnosticsherbet]

52. Well, millions of you are not going to get Warren as a choice.

She is clear that she does not want the job.

Then you have to decide which available Democrat to support in the primary.

Then you have to decide whether you want a Democrat or a Republican in the White House. At they same time, you will have to decide whether you want a Democrat or a Republican in Congress, and for some of you, in the Senate.

Those are the choices we all have, and they have real world consequences.

[TBF]

53. Oh we have other choices too -

we can strike en masse, we can sit in the streets, we can take over Washington DC with protests. If we can get enough people together we can do all kinds of things beyond voting for Hillary.

[Agnosticsherbet]

54. I would support a mass strike, as long as it is not on the 8th of November in 2016.

However, the issue isn't about strikes. It is about the primary and who will be on it.

Warren clearly has no desire to run in 2016.

As of now, it will be Hillary Clinton, Martin O'Malley, and Jim Webb. There may be others, but that appears to be the ones throwing their hats into the ring now. We should know more by the end of March.

If it were held today, I would vote for O'Malley.

If it is between Clinton and Webb, I would vote for Clinton.

[TBF]

55. The way you're framing it is about the primary -

my framing is very different.

[Agnosticsherbet]

56. We decide who will run in the General Electoin in the Primary.

No matter how you want to frame it.

[TBF]

57. This is GD, not Politics forum ~

I think I'm allowed to talk about things like influencing the elections in here. Many are voicing their disgust with having a candidate crammed down their throats. We don't have to accept the inevitable if we organize.

How to organize:

Greece



France



Bolivia



Argentina

[Agnosticsherbet]

58. You can certainly ignore the topic of this particular thread, which was about the primary

and about Warren.

Why stick to a topic if you have nothing valid to discuss about it?

[TBF]

60. Actually the topic was Elizabeth Warren

"US prosecutors weigh criminal charges against HSBC as Elizabeth Warren turns up the heat"

And my addition to that topic is that we can fight to get a candidate like Warren - we don't have to accept her royal highness Hillary. And then I proceeded to give illustrations about how we can protest in order to bring attention to our cause. You may not like that very much but it is very much on point. MANY of us would prefer Warren.

[Agnosticsherbet]

61. And my statement was that she was doing a great job as a Senator

and I was answered with her being better as President, but she isn't running.

And as to a General Strike, the last successful General Strike was in Oakland in 1946. I doubt Warren would be available to lead such a strike, since she is working very hard in the Senate on real legislation. I don't think a general strike, even if you could pull one off, would convince her.

And Hillary is not a "royal highness." We do not have those here, though in WWII Eisenhower and other generals were allowed bo become knights of the bath in England.

[TBF]

64. Could have fooled me -

you all are working very hard to coronate her. From the NYTimes this morning: “We’re a great visual because of the heritage,” Mr. Rendell said before the decision was announced. “Imagine Hillary giving a speech with Independence Hall behind her.” http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/us/politics/democrats-choose-philadelphia-for-2016-national-convention.html

So it appears the decision has already been made, whether the rank and file of the party care or not. We have no choice unless we turn to protesting (which is where we started).

So I doubt you and I are going to find much to agree on.

I guess that's why I've been losing interest lately. The candidates are so obviously vetted and chosen ahead of time and our 2 choices will be very pro-establishment.

It's really very depressing.

[Agnosticsherbet]

65. Try reading my words instead of somebody elses.

That way, you are less likely to make the error of putting words in my mouth. You preconceived notions of for what I think and do are utterly without fact.

The choices we get will not be identical, whether they are "vetted" or not.

One of them will be better, and I will vote for that person, whoever it happens to be. That is how our system works.

At this point in history, if we elect Democrats, things will improve a little. If we don't they will deteriorate a little.

My interests here is to learn who is applying to be my representative so I can make an informed choice.

[JDPriestly]

68. Have you read Elizabeth Warren's book, A Fighting Chance?

I ask that of everyone who thinks she won't run or that there is no chance she will run. So far no one who thinks she won't run has told me he or she as read that book.

Have you read it?

Elizabeth Warren could easily change her mind.

And Hillary could easily decide not to run.

So far, the only candidates I would vote for are Warren or Sanders.

We have to get impose and ENFORCE regulations on our financial sector, on our banks and Wall Street.

The essential elements in keeping our economic system going are failing because of the lax regulations of those sectors of our economy. The financial sector, the banks and Wall Street are not trustworthy and trust is the most important factor in economic transactions. Further, our Constitution and our legal system presume that protecting the rights of owners of private property is an important value to the voters in our country. So what happens to that presumption about the value of protecting the rights of owners of private property when the vast majority of people do not own and know they probably never will own any significant property.

Remember. Before the 1930s, before the Great Depression, a lot of people owned farms. America always had slaves (who could no vote) and a class of poorly paid people who originally did not always have the vote but later obtained it (women, certain workers in mining and industry, as well as servant), but the percentage of people who are permanently in debt and will never own anything is very large today. (Not just mortgage holders but the many, many low wage workers, intermittently employed, people with high student loan debt and young families, people who owe huge medical bills, etc.) Frightfully large, especially compared to the general expectation that Americans share, the belief that they can own property and that one of the most important of the government's jobs is to protect rights to property ownership. (Think about the courts and how they enforce property rights.)

This is troubling. I do not think that Hillary Clinton understands this. She would not hang out with the traders on Wall Street if she thought that problem through. And the description of Bill's attendance at a charity event in Russia is very troubling considering the current economic squeeze most people are feeling. Bill Clinton's decisions as president also reflect a rather shallow understanding about the need to regulate the financial sector and increase incentives for the careful management of money by bankers as well as consumers.

I don't think Hillary Clinton understands much about money or the financial problems of ordinary Americans.

And then, it's the corruption, stupid.

[TBF]

70. ^ This.

Like anyone who is not crazy I would vote for Hillary over a jackass like Scott Walker. But she's not my favorite by any stretch.

[SammyWinstonJack]

59. +a million!

I do not want Hillary Clinton in the White House. I do not want anyone who is paid $400,000 by Goldman Sachs for any reason, especially not for simply giving a couple of speeches.

[Scuba]

4. I'm sure Obama's Justice Department will crack down hard.

Record fines are possible. Jail time, not so much.

[BrotherIvan]

7. The ONLY penalty that will deter more illegal activity is jail time

No more fucking fines.

[whathehell]

20. Agreed -- They need to be hit hard.

Of course, they'd probably go to some White Collar Crime prison, but even that

would cost them their freedom and they'd be stigmatized as convicts, as they should be.

[markmyword]

42. Put Them in the SLAMMER!!!!

You steal a loaf of bread you go to JAIL!
You PROTEST the 1% and its JAIL time!
You don't put your hands up high enough for the police, it's called RESISTING arrest and JAIL time!

But if you're a banker who steals from the 99%, with derivatives, fraudulent mortgages with people losing their homes, manipulating the stock market OR HANDLING the money of DRUG CARTELS!!!!!!
That's right DRUG CARTELS!!!!
NOTHING HAPPENS TO THEM!
No wonder the war on drugs never ends, if no one laundered their money they'd be stuck with cash and no where to put it!
It's the 1% helping the criminals of the world and laundering the money of war criminals and brutal dictators and ARMS DEALERS!
There would be NO WARS in these countries without ARMS DEALERS supplying OUR military weapons!
We're fighting terrorists with American made weapons!!!!
And hiding the money of the 1% to AVOID U.S. Taxes, well that's ok.
I'm sick of FINES! FINES!FINES! and not admitting guilt.
It's JAIL! JAIL! JAIL for these CROOKS! CRIMINALS!
Let's throw the book at them, NO more DEALS, the only deal is a GO STRAIGHT TO JAIL CARD!!!!!!

[Enthusiast]

45. +1 You nailed that.

[HappyMe]

5. kick

[BrotherIvan]

6. My only thought is, please, Senator Warren, stay safe

She needs the Secret Service to protect her. Not kidding.

[whathehell]

21. Yes, that thought concerns me as well..

People still think Paul Wellstone was murdered, but I've heard the weather

was bad that day, and other small planes went down as well, so I don't know.

[rhett o rick]

39. It's hard to say but a lot of good progressives have died in strange circumstances.

And a lot of others have been silenced by other means, like Conyers, Gov Stiegelman, and Gov Spitzer. I don't believe in coincidences in politics.

[BrotherIvan]

49. Me neither

I just said this morning they were going to Spitzer/Weiner her. I know Senator Warren is extremely smart and I believe since she is new to this politics & power thing, I hope she hasn't had time to bury a ton of skeletons. But they can make scandals out of nothing. They were both stupid idiots who left themselves vulnerable, but it is quite a coincidence it all came out when they were going after the big guys.

I really, really hope she understands the absolute bottomless greed of the people she is taking on. And I hope she gets as much protection as possible. If I were President, she would have her own Secret Service detail.

[Enthusiast]

29. +1

[dirtydickcheney]

8. Sure - they were laundering and hiding all that drug money.....

I genuinely hope they get hit with that charge too!

[One_Life_To_Give]

9. Didn't the AG in New York just settle with HSBC for 1.2Billion?

Gee guess we weren't supposed to learn that Justice supposedly knew about this additional stuff in 2010.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/2/9/hsbc-leaks-challenge-bank-friendly-government.html

[Octafish]

11. Different fraud.

They used to be known as UK's nice bank, not founded by the Empire cheezewhits, rather by meritocrats in Hong Kong and Singapore.

HSBC has behaved like the mafia - yet STILL not one of its bankers has been put on trial

By ALEX BRUMMER FOR THE DAILY MAIL
PUBLISHED: 19:24 EST, 9 February 2015 |

Of all Britain’s banks, the proud Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation, now known as HSBC, always seemed a cut above the rest.

SNIP...

Shockingly, the HSBC files also led the French police to an extraordinary network of drug-trafficking, money-laundering, fraud and tax evasion, the proceeds of which seem to have ended up in HSBC’s Swiss private bank.

It had come under the aegis of HSBC when, in 1999, the firm’s then chairman Sir John Bond bought two private banks — the Republic Bank of New York and Safra Republic Holdings — for $10billion from the financier Edmond Safra.

So secretive were the affairs of Safra’s banks that a special writing script, reserved for the richest and most sensitive clients, was used to record transactions.

In buying the private banks, at a time when huge new wealth was being created in China and exported from HSBC’s original Hong Kong home, Bond and his board clearly felt they could tap into the great riches being generated around the world.

CONTINUED...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2946740/ALEX-BRUMMER-HSBC-behaved-like-mafia-not-one-bankers-trial.html

It's like Nugan-Hand Bank was merely a template for what was to come.

[Octafish]

10. Appoint William K. Black as Special Prosecutor.

While there may not be space for all of them at once, no one will be too big to jail.

[Jefferson23]

12. Oh I so wish that would happen..omg. n/t

[Octafish]

13. Drain the Swamp.

Give him a bright Grand Jury, too.

[Jefferson23]

14. The man is seriously prepared to do that..he would jump on it if called, I feel.

I post his work all the time...he is relentless.

[Octafish]

15. He wrote a great book on our age: The Best Way to Rob a Bank Is to Own One

Black outlined the problem to Bill Moyers in 2009, when we could'v'e recovered some of the loot:

WILLIAM K. BLACK: Our system...

BILL MOYERS: Our financial system...

WILLIAM K. BLACK: Became a Ponzi scheme. Everybody was buying a pig in the poke. But they were buying a pig in the poke with a pretty pink ribbon, and the pink ribbon said, "Triple-A."

SOURCE w/links video and how to contact him, Mr. Holder: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/watch.html

Gee. No one in Washington cough Geithner wanted him around, though.

[Jefferson23]

16. Yes and he hasn't stopped going after them, never lets up..ever.

Has written extensively on Greece as well.

[JDPriestly]

26. Yes. And remember, Hilllary will never appoint him to anything. Not even dogcatcher.

Only two potential candidates could appoint Black as special prosecutor -- Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders. I will vote for either one.

[avaistheone1]

62. Black would do a terrific job.

[ReRe]

22. K&R

Sic 'em, Elizabeth. She would make a great AG!

[MFrohike]

23. We'll see

HSBC was the case where Holder trotted out the economy excuse as to why he couldn't prosecute blatant criminality. I could live with no criminal prosecutions if they'd pull the charter. That by itself might well be fatal to this mafiaesque organization.

[PatriceKelly]

63. Doesn't Holder Work For The Banks?

He sure doesn't work for enforcing banking laws......

[sabrina 1]

24. This could help Greece also, couldn't it? To find out where their wealthy fraudsters hid all the

money they took from the country?

[Enthusiast]

28. We could use a little of that old fashioned law 'n order we heard preached to us constantly in the

1960s and 1970s, when it comes to the banks and Wall
Street.

[woo me with science]

36. K&R

[countryjake]

38. K&R!

[rhett o rick]

40. k&r. Thanks for posting. nm