Most elected Democrats voted *against* war in Iraq

[MannyGoldstein]

Including half from New York.

I can't see any excuse, whatsoever, for voting for that damned thing. It was either profound ignorance, or profound sociopathy, to sentence so many people to death and devastation .

We can forgive. But we must never, ever forget.

[marym625]

1. amen to that!

I will never vote for anyone that voted for that war.

[AtomicKitten]

5. ditto

[marym625]

63. .

[rhett o rick]

8. I made that pledge in 2002. I will never vote for anyone that bowed before King George. nm

[marym625]

13. Me too

No excuse for what they did

[bvar22]

61. Political Convenience ...

That is the ONLY reason I can see.
Invading countries and killing hundreds of thousands of innocents doesn't bother some.

[marym625]

62. I posted the votes

On another thread earlier. Or maybe further down on this one. What I found interesting is how many of the people that voted "yes" are still around vs the "no" votes. Interesting indeed

This thread reply 21

[snot]

15. Like.

[sabrina 1]

68. Same here! n/t

[marym625]

71. hi Sabrina

[sabrina 1]

72. Hi mary

[brewens]

2. It was no time at all after 9/11 that I knew it was mosty Saudis involved. In fact counting

Bin Ladin and all the hijackers, was ther not only one that wasn't Saudi? That told me who was responsible or who at least should have been assumed to be responsible. The freakin' Saudis'!

I felt an appropriate respose, and it could have been handled secretly, would have been an ultimatum to the Saudis'. We get Bin Ladins head in a box or we bomb all of your palaces and kill all the royal family. I'd say they could have found someone to locate him and could have gotten an assasin near him if they were forced to. Better than going after Hussein anyway.

[JonLP24]

17. Arabian Peninsula wealthy investors have provided ISIS funding

It is interesting attorneys for the 9/11 members in their long attempt to sue Saudi Arabia (they were eventually allowed to sue the state but individual businesses & anyone else was still blocked if I remember the status correctly) have mentioned charity fronts as a way they have provided funding to these groups which is interestingly one way ISIS is funded.

I recommend the entire article -- http://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/14/how-does-isis-fund-its-reign-terror-282607.html

Basically, they've done their homework. Those same routes as far as transporting supply & funds in Syria from Turkey also happen to be the same way the CIA was able to traffic firearms to Sunni rebels. A lot have said they supported the rebels & didn't intend for it to get into ISIS hands (Saudi Arabia mentioned how willingly the US allowed the events in Tunisia & Egypt to take place -- Qatar sent aid & supply to the rebels in all of those countries. Considering they're Wahabbi dictatorship, probably organized & financed a Wahabbi cult to lead the charge but we are so forgiving for them. We'll cover for them when it comes to their investments, fly the Bin Laden family out-of-the-country as a major priority when all flights are cancelled, blame the secular dictator for 9/11 or giving nukes to terrorists. They say the same about Iran but Hezbollah would be the type of group they would deal a nuke to and aside of their obsession with Israel, don't appear to have much activities in the West or especially the US.

[polly7]

26. +1 nt.

[msongs]

3. yet here we are all those years later and the current management is still perpetuating more war nt

[MannyGoldstein]

4. And we're told that this is the way it ought to be

that we should embrace it.

#%^* that. Seriously, #%^ that.

[woo me with science]

6. [phone]

[BrotherIvan]

10. + infinity

FUCK THAT! I will not cheer on a war no matter if the person in office looks like me or not.

I'll say it again:

FUCK THAT!

[joshcryer]

16. Who's saying this?

[Fumesucker]

22. The pro-Hillary contingent are certainly implying it

Don't concern yourself that she voted for the worst foreign policy disaster in American history, a disaster that was widely predicted although I'm not sure even the most skeptical realized just how utterly horrible the situation would become.

I had someone tell me here on DU that Hillary believed the "six months and done" scenario Dick 'n Dubya put forth.

[joshcryer]

23. No one says to "embrace" shit foreign policy.

Don't be absurd.

[Fumesucker]

24. And Dick 'n Dubya never said Iraq was responsible for 9/11...

See how that works?

[joshcryer]

25. You're shitting on DUers.

Link a post saying people should "embrace" shitty foreign policy. It's false.

[Fumesucker]

27. Posters shit on each other all the time around here

I got my first hide in years recently when an alerter lied about the contents of his hidden post I had actually linked to and most of the jury didn't even bother to check if I was telling the truth or not.

Next time I made sure I put a screenshot in as well as a link, that one didn't get hidden.

[joshcryer]

28. I know of no DUer here who agrees with shit foreign policy.

Mentioned by the original poster I was responding to. Not one.

If one exists and you're too afraid to link the post, feel free to PM me.

I don't see why you'd get a hide for linking a post here, though. I think you have nothing, which is why this isn't happening. It's all bluster. Pointless hatred for a perceived group of "other" DUers.

[Fumesucker]

29. Are you saying Hillary isn't a hawk?

Hillary has such an infectious laugh...

[joshcryer]

30. I'm saying you have nothing.

I have no doubt that Hillary would be fiercer than Obama with regards to foreign policy. That's a given. Frankly, she'd have to be, being a woman, and all.

[Fumesucker]

31. If you support Hillary then you support that "fiercer" foreign policy...

Don't tell me there aren't very strong Hillary supporters here, we wouldn't be on this thread having this conversation otherwise.

[tkmorris]

51. Do we really want a candidate who feels like they have to compensate for something?

That's the kind of thing that gets people killed.

[BlueCaliDem]

32. It's what fumesucker does best. It's his specialty. eom

[Fumesucker]

33. It's what I got all these hearts for..

[BlueCaliDem]

36. For shitting on DUers? And that makes you happy??

Aw well...this IS the United States, and in these United States, hate for one another sells better and faster than tolerance and politeness toward one another, it seems.

I'm just surprised you don't have more hearts.

[MannyGoldstein]

39. "I just tell 'em the truth and they think it's hell"

- Harry S. Truman

[BlueCaliDem]

41. Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves"

- Matthew 7:15

[Fumesucker]

43. Who was it voted *for* war again?

I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

[BlueCaliDem]

46. The American people - hence Duhbya's second term. That's all the proof we need.

You and I might HATE war to the nth degree, but we're outnumbered by Americans who worship violence. This nation has a fixation with violence, and they need their "fix" every so many years.

Twenty six-year-olds are massacred behind their desks in school, yet we find little sympathy when we try to pass even the weakest gun laws in order to, at least, prevent nuts from getting their unstable hands on more guns, or minimizing ammo magazines that would blow less people to pieces.

Our fanatical gun culture. Our love of war. Our fascination with killing and seeing death. Our innate disdain and loathing for our poor, hungry, sick, unemployed, disabled, and minorities are proof that we are NOT a peaceful nation and to continue to believe we are is futile.

It is that aggressiveness in the American people that then Senator Clinton had to show her "hawkishness". It's the reason why Democrats have lost against Republicans in the past - they are "doves" while Republicans are "hawks!" and "strong in defense!" and it's all propagandized bull, but it's bull the American people embrace with all their violent little hearts.

Understanding this, I can overlook Clinton's IWR, just as long as we get a Democrat in the White House before yet another Republican steals the elections, get installed, and then has the privilege of appointing more corporate lackeys on the Supreme Court. So I'm not going to cut my nose off to spite my face. I'd rather hold it tightly as I vote for a Democrat because the alternative is ten times worse.

[Rex]

56. Please don't rewrite history, it is what republicans like to do and we are better than them

Dubya won a second term only because Rove cheated in Ohio...DON'T blame the voter, they sure as hell didn't vote for BULLSHIT that got us into Iraq. I WON'T overlook her vote that helped get thousands of military professionals killed and untold numbers of Iraqis. Her vote also led to torture and Gitmo so don't pretend she is innocent - all she had to do LIKE OTHER DEMS is vote nay.

You can pretend she is great, because Jeb is worse and that is true...we will all hold our nose and vote for her if have to. But what a fucking crappy statement that makes. I have a friend that was deployed 8 TIMES to Iraq, never got to see his two children grow up until they were much older. By some small miracle he survived all 8 deployments but is not the same person.

Sorry, but if votes count...then her vote for a bullshit war (the she knew was bullshit) CAN and WILL be held against her.

[Fumesucker]

42. Evidently you are irony challenged

In 2003 I had a son in law in the Marine Corps, invading Iraq could easily have been a personal tragedy for my family, thankfully it didn't work out that way but Hillary's vote for further war when I as a Joe Blow with an internet connection knew better was very personal for me.

Sometimes you have to do the unpopular thing because it's the right thing, over half the Democrats in Congress passed that test, Hillary failed it in world class fashion and tried her best to take other Dems with her.

[BlueCaliDem]

45. My only surviving sister was deployed TWICE to Iraq. Her husband's helicopter was nearly shot down,

almost making her a young widow. And my sister is currently under treatment for PTSD ever since watching four of her good friends bombed to pieces in the vehicle right in front of her by an IED while realizing that it could have been her vehicle had the IED gone off a minute later.

So I know the tragedy that families suffer when America decides to launch another war for oil. Believe me. But that only strengthens my resolve to never have another Republican in the White House, and I'll be damned if I'm going to crap on other DUers who, like me, also don't want to see another Republican in the White House ever again.

I don't give a rat's patooty how many Dems voted for the IWR. They didn't launch it. They didn't push for it. And we had a war-mongering Republican in the White House. That Republican president - or more accurately, the Republican Neo-con Vice President - had pushed HARD for war, and a propaganda media posing as a viable 4th estate made certain that it was drummed into our heads.

Had Al Gore gotten the support (was only 55% turnout, unlike Obama's 61% in 2008 and 59% in 2012) there wouldn't have been a 9/11 and there wouldn't have been a war. Everywhere I looked, some political novice was pontificating that Gore was the same as Bush, inadvertently helping the GOP-machine to disenchant voters to the point that the elections were so close that it was easy to steal.

I won't fall for that b.s. for a second time. Even if I have to hold my nose, I'll vote for Hillary Clinton IF she is the nominee, because I understand that standing on my principles as a Liberal and refusing to vote for the Democratic nominee because that person voted for the IWR or comes across too conservative will only help Republicans.

[Fumesucker]

55. It will say a lot about the Democrats and the country and the Iraq war if Hillary is the nominee

None of it good.

It's mind boggling to think that a fuckup of that colossal magnitude on their resume doesn't disqualify someone from being the Democratic nominee for the most responsible job on the damn planet.

God help us all.

[Rex]

57. All she had to do was vote nay...not like it is hard to do.

And OF COURSE she had to know more than we did...so she voted knowing how much BULLSHIT was going to happen. As a vet and having friends completely FUCKED UP from that war...I won't forgive her.

And if people don't like it...2FUCKINGBAD.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. "hate for one another sells better and faster than tolerance and politeness toward one another..."

Only on the internet (WINK).

[MannyGoldstein]

38. You're seriously claiming that nobody supports a war on ISIS?

In particular the arming of "Syrian rebels"? And that a prime fan of this policy isn't the top choice for next President by many at DU?

[marym625]

67. There are so many justifying it

That you would think we're on, well, not where we are

[marym625]

7. Manifesto: The Mad Farmer Liberation Front

Love the quick profit, the annual raise,
vacation with pay. Want more
of everything ready-made. Be afraid
to know your neighbors and to die.
And you will have a window in your head.
Not even your future will be a mystery
any more. Your mind will be punched in a card
and shut away in a little drawer.
When they want you to buy something
they will call you. When they want you
to die for profit they will let you know.

Wendell Berry

[RufusTFirefly]

9. In 2004, a huge majority of Democratic delegates opposed the illegal invasion

Yet whom did we choose as our standard bearer? A Senator who voted for it.



I phone-banked for the guy right up until the polls were closed. Never again will I shill for a war monger and make excuses for what was an inexcusable vote.

As President Warren would say, "The game is rigged."

[BrotherIvan]

11. Oh, but you would be violating TOS by violating your principles!

Quelle horreur!

[emulatorloo]

48. Kerry was one of the best Liberal senators we've had in the Senate

Would have made a great President.

[progree]

12. True, but interestingly most Democratic senators voted for the Iraq war (29 to 21)

IRAQ WAR - More Democrats (counting both houses of Congress combined) voted against the Iraq War Resolution (October 2002) then voted for it, but more Democratic senators voted for it than against it --

Dem Votes For-Against:
House: 82-126 (39%-61%),
Senate: 29-21 (58%-42%), <-had Hillary voted differently, it would have been 28-22
Total: 111-147 (43%-57%).

(Whereas Republicans were 97% in favor in the House and 98% in the Senate)

If I remember, what skewed the Senate vote was something like 75 senators were given some song-and-dance briefing about the danger of Iraq's UAVs (drones) that supposedly could be launched from far out at sea to hit U.S. mainland targets or something like that.

I'm not a Hillary-bot, just found this interesting, when researching for some talking points to convince a friend of mine that the Democrats were the anti-war party, and then to run across the Senate vote, sputter sputter.

[JonLP24]

18. That year was a lot like the information wars regarding Ukraine

Al-Jazeera was sold as this obvious propaganda network for terrorists but the public who probably didn't know who Bin Laden was before 9/11 & the target a Muslim majority country & the media certainly did a lot of "withholding". Phil Donahue was hired either shortly before or after the invasion who was basically the last anti-war voice (except for Crossfire & O'Reilly & Hannity bullying shows) on a cable news network. The Daily Show & C-Span were basically the only sources I could trust on TV.

Basically, politicians left or right -- especially the left who are afraid to take stands on controversial issues voted for the Iraq War because it was the politically safe thing to do. Howard Dean, who had some moderate views (Vermont -- one of 3 states with the most lax as possible gun regulations) spoke out forcefully for it but was branded a radical & far lefty (He'd often say, in inspiration from Wellstone, "I'm from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party" -- "a fighting centrist" is why Molly Ivans said as why she was endorsing. There was a HUGE fear of a second Bush term which explains though push for Wesley Clark out-of-nowhere (i trusted him the least since he didn't have much a stand on the issues except for the generic platform his advisors developed) by Michael Moore & other anti-war investors because he looked like an "electable anti-war" candidate because he could sustain those peacenik cowards "support our troops" crazy mindset.

However, Wesley Clark had a confusing & contradictory statement kinda like Kerry did regarding him being against the war but he would have voted for the IWR. I can say this though, especially following the mention of someone famous for an air bombing campaign, is Democrats aren't an anti-war party with the exception of their more progressive members. Triangulators such as Nancy Pelosi has massive influence & Hillary Clinton is basically the textbook politically safe politician. While she is very knowledgeable & takes a position & articulates it in a way that shows what she is talking about. But statements regarding "GTA" was basically the PMRC scare volume II, taking positions & making arguments showing they don't have an idea what is they are or having suggested we should have had "skin in the game" so we'd have a better idea who is trafficking arms to rebel groups, ISIS, or both. Gun control means very different things outside our borders.

Since things were polarizing to the extreme, Democrats who may have had White House aspirations or a next election choose the "safe" position and with polls in the high 80's showing support and those who were against had a very, very thick air of propaganda.

I think Daschle had some notable criticisms -- I remember "Dasshole" a common term -- but ended up voting for it. Robert Bird expressed some impassioned concerns and if I didn't know if he was ever a member of the KKK for however brief it was, they certainly learned about it. A large amount of focus went into saying they weren't wimps or cowards & Saddam was used a wedge issue, basically there was a huge focus on the bad guy Saddam. A lot was leveraged into whether we should or shouldn't remove a human rights violator ("he gassed the Kurds" was often mentioned but gassing the Iranians was withheld from the media&quot

This was basically it in a nutshell

Robert Bird "Today I weep for my country"

[snot]

14. Thanks, Manny! (This post could be improved by a list of which did and didn't.) NT

[marym625]

21. Iraq War Resolution Votes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/transcripts/senaterollcall_iraq101002.htm

Senate Roll Call: Iraq Resolution

Friday, October 11, 2002

Following is an alphabetical listing by state of how each senator voted on President Bush's Iraq resolution. A "yes" vote was a vote to grant President Bush the power to attack Iraq unilaterally. A "no" vote was a vote to defeat the measure. Voting "yes" were 29 Democrats and 48 Republicans. Voting "no" were 1 Republican, 21 Democrats, and 1 Independent.

Alabama Jeff Sessions Richard Shelby (R): Yes Alaska Frank Murkowski (R): Yes Ted Stevens (R): Yes Arizona Jon Kyl (R): Yes John McCain (R): Yes Arkansas Tim Hutchinson (R): Yes Blanche Lincoln (D): Yes California Barbara Boxer (D): No Dianne Feinstein (D): Yes Colorado Wayne Allard (R): Yes Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R): Yes Connecticut Christopher Dodd (D): Yes Joseph Lieberman (D): Yes Delaware Joseph Biden (D): Yes Thomas Carper (D): Yes Florida Bob Graham (D): No Bill Nelson (D): Yes Georgia Max Cleland (D): Yes Zell Miller (D): Yes Hawaii Daniel Akaka (D): No Daniel Inouye (D): No Idaho Larry Craig (R): Yes Mike Crapo (R): Yes Illinois Richard Durbin (D): No Peter Fitzgerald (R): Yes Indiana Evan Bayh (D): Yes Richard Lugar (R): Yes Iowa Charles Grassley (R): Yes Tom Harkin (D): Yes Kansas Sam Brownback (R): Yes Pat Roberts (R): Yes Kentucky Jim Bunning (R): Yes Mitch McConnell (R): Yes Louisiana John Breaux (D): Yes Mary Landrieu (D): Yes Maine Susan Collins (R): Yes Olympia Snowe (R): Yes Maryland Barbara Mikulski (D): No Paul Sarbanes (D): No Massachusetts Edward Kennedy (D): No John Kerry (D): Yes Michigan Debbie Stabenow (D): No Carl Levin (D): No Minnesota Mark Dayton (D): No Paul Wellstone (D): No Mississippi Thad Cochran (R): Yes Trent Lott (R): Yes Missouri Jean Carnahan (D): Yes Christopher (Kit) Bond (R): Yes Montana Max Baucus (D): Yes Conrad Burns (R): Yes Nebraska Chuck Hagel (R): Yes Ben Nelson (D): Yes Nevada John Ensign (R): Yes Harry Reid (D): Yes New Hampshire Judd Gregg (R): Yes Bob Smith (R): Yes New Jersey Jon Corzine (D): No Robert Torricelli (D): Yes New Mexico Jeff Bingaman (D): No Pete Domenici (R): Yes New York Hillary Clinton (D): Yes Charles Schumer (D): Yes North Carolina John Edwards (D): Yes Jesse Helms (R): Yes North Dakota Kent Conrad (D): No Byron Dorgan (D): Yes Ohio Mike DeWine (R): Yes George Voinovich (R): Yes Oklahoma James Inhofe (R): Yes Don Nickles (R): Yes Oregon Gordon Smith (R): Yes Ron Wyden (D): No Pennsylvania Rick Santorum (R): Yes Arlen Specter (R): Yes Rhode Island Lincoln Chafee (R): No Jack Reed (D): No South Carolina Ernest "Fritz" Hollings (D): Yes Strom Thurmond (R): Yes South Dakota Thomas Daschle (D): Yes Tim Johnson (D): Yes Tennessee Bill Frist (R): Yes Fred Thompson (R): Yes Texas Phil Gramm (R): Yes Kay Bailey Hutchison (R): Yes Utah Robert Bennett (R): Yes Orrin Hatch (R): Yes Vermont James Jeffords (I): No Patrick Leahy (D): No Virginia George Allen (R): Yes John Warner (R): Yes Washington Maria Cantwell (D): Yes Patty Murray (D): No West Virginia Robert Byrd (D): No Jay Rockefeller (D): Yes Wisconsin Russell Feingold (D): No Herb Kohl (D): Yes Wyoming Mike Enzi (R): Yes Craig Thomas (R): Yes

It's interesting to see how many of the yes votes are still around vs the no votes.

[countryjake]

64. WA Sen. Patty Murray did NOT vote "yes" on the Iraq War Resolution

Last edited Mon Feb 23, 2015, 11:55 PM - Edit history (1)

In her speech to Congress in 2002, she was noted for giving the "if you break it, you buy it!" line as just one of her reasons for being against sending troops to invade and destroy Iraq.

[marym625]

66. uhm. calm down. It says she voted no.

The vote is after the name, not before

[countryjake]

69. I'm calm, it's just that reading so much here excusing the Warmongers...

who voted yes for the Invasion/Occupation/Destruction of Iraq has practically blinded me, ha!

Patty tried her damnedest to tell them, she knew just like all the rest of us here at DU did in the Fall of 2002.



(sorry for misreading, I edited out my exclamation point)

[marym625]

70. Yes she did

I'm with you. I don't understand it AT ALL! I am just as perplexed and upset about them defending her choice for her main adviser, Larry Summers. Not only is he the author of the End Game Memo (and my saying that has resulted in me being called a conspiracy theorist) he threatened Elizabeth Warren. And they defend her and even him! Someone actually said that he was better than Republicans. I just quit talking to idiots. They are either wilfully ignorant, liars or just plain stupid.

[certainot]

19. i think the profound ignorance, the biggest mistake in political history,

is the left's complete failure to pay any attention to republican radio, which made and is continuing to make most of this alternate reality possible.

to sentence so many people to death and devastation

at that time to the MSM, fed by said ignored rw radio stations, the iraq war was going to be a 'cakewalk' and huge amts of rw radio blowhards could make excuses for it all day long.

and with a concerted effort that probably included pentagon talk radio propaganda, huge amts of 'concerned' citizens (also known as tea baggers) were pointed toward reps who might be intimidated. as well as private citizens and celebs who might speak out.

but the left ignored those radio stations completely while they attacked those who were speaking out. they still can't say they got their reps backs.

and while we protested at state capitols, small numbers of well coordinated blowhards made it easy for most reps to ignore protestors.

[BlueCaliDem]

37. Yep. It's the ol' "if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound?" thing.

[Fumesucker]

44. I listened to it for years, it made me steadily more liberal

In fact it's right wing talk radio that got me started following politics online, I used to listen in the car and shout at the radio when I heard bullshit.

Eventually I figured out their entire shtick is to piss you off, it doesn't matter if you agree or disagree, anger is addictive and if you provide a regular source for people to get their anger fix they will keep coming back.

Then I quit listening..

Here's an OP of mine from a few years ago about how to actually go about hurting Rush, it got 241 recs..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002374653

But I shit all over DUers..

[certainot]

49. the sandra fluke reaction has worked well with some of

those suggestions.

i think if the effort was statrted in defense of anita hill not only would we not have clarence thomas, limbaugh and the rw radio monopoly would never have achieved anywhere near what it has and we'd have had single payer and many of the reforms the left has wanted.

i wish they were applied to all national and local rw blowhards and all their stations. and if the left would make an issue of our colleges and universities supporting rw radio with sports the monopoly would dissolve fairly quickly.

[Fumesucker]

53. Most of the conservatives I know thrive on confrontation, they seek it out

Liberals on the other hand often tend to be more prone to compromise and avoiding direct confrontation.

The best defense is the one that never has to get on the field because the offense is so overwhelming, if liberals want to win they have to play offense a lot more rather than defense.

[Rex]

58. True liberals would like to have a conversation, yet all conservatives know how to do

is fight and talk over each other. We see it here all the time.

[woo me with science]

20. K&R

[BlueCaliDem]

34. Ooooh! Another Democrat-bashing OP from our resident Liberal Libertarian!

Quelle surprise.

[99Forever]

35. K&R

[Scuba]

40. K&R I knew in 2002 that the Iraq war was a huge mistake based on lies. The idea that a ....

... US Senator didn't also know this is preposterous.

[Martin Eden]

47. Exactly.

Those who voted for the IWR were either too stupid for their office, on board with the Bush agenda, or calculated it was politically advantageous at the time.

I think Hillary was a combination of the latter two.

[bigtree]

50. *most* Democrats voted consistently for the funding of that occupation, from the start

...which is the most substantial way wars are waged and approved (or ended with an end to the funding) by our legislators.

What was significant about Hillary Clinton's vote is the way in which she accepted almost all of Bush's description of a threat. The other fault was the naivete she displayed in believing Bush would proceed with restraint. Granted, she wasn't alone in her faulty reasoning that Bush would heed hers and others' admonitions against 'preemptive war' and unilateral war, but there's certainly a good argument that she shouldn't have trusted Bush.

I suppose you can also conclude that, as a politician, she was trying to provide a smokescreen with all of her admonitions in her floor speech, believing she could have it both ways; appearing to approve the invasion if it went swimmingly, and appearing to oppose it if it didn't. It was certainly not a profile in courage, and it was the same type of investment into the war posture our current president has adopted, despite all of the nonsense that he took a decidedly different approach to the use of military force in Iraq or elsewhere abroad (albeit, with Barack Obama operating in a far more restrained way than Bush; even despite his escalation of force in Afghanistan far beyond Bush's numbers and the sacrificing of over 1000 more lives there defending Karzai's government than Bush did avenging 9-11).

Re-read Sen. Hillary Clinton's floor speech on the "Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq" October 10, 2002. It's a political masterpiece in present-day rationalization for warring; yes, even the preemptive war she counsels against in that speech.

However, make no mistake about where the true authority for presidents to war comes from. It's contained in each and every appropriations bill which funds the troops in the field. Wars are ended when Congress pulls down the funding; maybe not precipitously, but substantially pulls the plug on operations by drying up the money used to continue. Giving legislators a pass on support for the Iraq invasion and operation by pointing to their votes against the 2002 AUMF is an remarkable disconnect from the legislative process which defends and maintains the 'authority' presidents have to wage war. Funding is the key and most important lever Congress has in the balance of power in our government. In that regard, *most* Democrats failed the test of whether they actually opposed the Iraq invasion and occupation.

In another fault, *most* Democrats have also failed that test in their refusal to or neglect in calling for a repeal of that ass-covering 2002 AUMF today, over a decade after the invasion - Or, as Pres. Obama relies on AUMFs to cover his own military actions in Iraq and Syria today, the 2001 9-11 AUMF should also be opposed by anyone claiming to actually disapprove of war in Iraq.

[JEB]

52. Kissinger/Summers in 2016.

As long as they have a D after their names.

[NCTraveler]

54. Both parties are the same!!!!!!!!! nt.

[MisterP]

59. and the Yes-voters lost their seats at like twice the rate

the officialists, of course, said that was proof of how tough that seat was and that the failure of an idea shows how good that idea was

[marym625]

73. I would like to see some statistics on that

If you look at the votes in the Senate, there are more of the people that voted yes still around than that voted no.

[grahamhgreen]

60. We are the problem, not the solution in The ME.