ISIS and “Christian” Extremists: Both of them are terrorist organizations.

[riqster]

https://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2015/02/18/isis-and-christian-extremists-both-of-them-are-terrorist-organizations/

Lot of source info at the link.

Both groups want to murder millions of infidels so as to bring about the end of the world. Both groups cherry-pick their respective Scriptures to justify the evil acts they perpetrate upon others. Both are run by malevolent geniuses who are followed by hateful, gullible, violent f***wits with room-temperature IQs. And both have useful idiots in the media who try to paint them as something other than what they are.

Let’s start with ISIS, (and let’s call them “Daesh”, because it is accurate, and because they hate being called by that name).
Here is an excellent article on them, worth the click. Pretty long piece, so here are a very few snippets:

The Islamic State, also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS), follows a distinctive variety of Islam whose beliefs about the path to the Day of Judgment matter to its strategy, and can help the West know its enemy and predict its behavior. Its rise to power is less like the triumph of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (a group whose leaders the Islamic State considers apostates) than like the realization of a dystopian alternate reality in which David Koresh or Jim Jones survived to wield absolute power over not just a few hundred people, but some 8 million.
Following takfiri doctrine, the Islamic State is committed to purifying the world by killing vast numbers of people. The lack of objective reporting from its territory makes the true extent of the slaughter unknowable, but social-media posts from the region suggest that individual executions happen more or less continually, and mass executions every few weeks.

Pretty gruesome, you’ll agree. But not all that different from various “Christian” Millenialist groups (we’ll call them “Teavangelicals”, because it is likewise accurate, and they also hate being called by that name).

Teavangelicals think they should rule the world as a theocracy. Just as Daesh does:

Kingdom Now theology states that althoughSatan has been in control of the world since the Fall, God is looking for people who will help him take back dominion. Those who yield themselves to the authority of God’s apostles and prophets will take control of the kingdoms of this world, being defined as all social institutions, the “kingdom” of education, the “kingdom” of science, the “kingdom” of the arts, etc.

Teavangelicals want to re-enslave people (Women, people of color, etc). Again, Daesh also believes in slavery. Check out this quote from a Fundie:

I’m not going to sugarcoat this article in an attempt not to offend anyone. Feminism is rebellion against God’s AUTHORITY! I don’t know where the term “feminazi” originated, but it accurately describes the Feminist Movement. So many pastors today are afraid to preach against the evils of feminism. The truth needs to be told!
America’s churches, marriages and homes are being destroyed by the vile feminist agenda. Women are now filing for divorce atTWICE the rate of men because of feminism. A godly man is a threat to the feminist’s agenda, because he believes that a woman’s place is still in the home—baking cookies, knitting, and caring for the children (1st Timothy 5:14). Of course, hen pecked husbands and sissies are exempt.

That’s what Teavangelicals say about women. As to POC? Here you go, straight from the horse’s ass:

Collier also said that he and his followers believe that whites are “God’s chosen people.” While he denies that racism is at the heart of the event, he admits that some members and attendees are Ku Klux Klan (KKK) members (but membership in the Klan isn’t a requirement).

And this little bon mot:

WE BELIEVE the White, Anglo-Saxon, Germanic and kindred people to be God’s true, literal Children of Israel. Only this race fulfills every detail of Biblical Prophecy and World History concerning Israel and continues in these latter days to be heirs and possessors of the Covenants, Prophecies, Promises and Blessings YHVH God made to Israel. This chosen seedline making up the “Christian Nations” (Gen. 35:11; Isa. 62:2; Acts 11:26) of the earth stands far superior to all other peoples in their call as God’s servant race (Isa. 41:8, 44:21; Luke 1:54). Only these descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel scattered abroad (James 1:1; Deut. 4:27; Jer. 31:10; John 11:52) have carried God’s Word, the Bible, throughout the world (Gen. 28:14; Isa. 43:10-12, 59:21), have used His Laws in the establishment of their civil governments and are the “Christians” opposed by the Satanic Anti-Christ forces of this world who do not recognize the true and living God (John 5:23, 8:19, 16:2-3).

And are Teavangelicals violent like Daesh? Yep. Click here to get acquainted with the many “Christians” who behead, rape, bomb, torture and assassinate anyone their diseased “brains” tell them to. Here and abroad.

This writer certainly has no love for Daesh. They are lunatic mass-murderers, among other disgusting characteristics. We cannot, however, pretend that they are any different than the Teavangelicals. We have at least as big a problem with the supposed “followers” of Rebbe Yeshua bar Joseph as we do with those who pervert the teachings of Mohammed (peace be on him).

Any Christian who wants to pretend otherwise should remember this little quote from their professed Lord and Savior in Matthew 7:

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

All terrorists are evil. All of them, regardless of motivation or religion. Look at them with clear eyes, and you’ll see it

[niyad]

1. I have been saying for ages that I fear the fundamentalist reichwingnutjobs in this country

far more than I fear those in other countries.

[riqster]

2. And you have been correct.

[Bluenorthwest]

3. I think they both have extremist ideologies, but one is a specific organization and the other is not

So in that way the analogy is flawed. It's also pointless unless you are a 'person of faith' out to pit one faith against the other or to use one as mitigation for the other. For me, saying 'religious extremists are all alike' is easier. The dogma they claim to believe is not my concern, what concerns me is what they do, the actions they take. The brand of nonsense they use as excuse for their actions is not at all important.
The other reason this sort of concept is a slippery slope is that clearly ISIS gets more done in terms of their extremism than our local extremists manage. If ISIS and our extremists are both identical organizations then that which prevents ours from flourishing lies in the larger societies and majorities around them. Is that what you think, that we are just better as a society, that's why even with an organization just like ISIS among us, life goes on without open warfare with them? Or is it just magic?

[CJCRANE]

5. I think it's more about funding, organization and opportunity.

ISIS got a headstart in spreading their message on social media, then when the Syrian civil war started they saw their opportunity and tapped the deep pockets of their donors.

Even now other groups are starting to do the same thing: both sides of the Ukrainian conflict and those fighting against ISIS are also recruiting foreign volunteers.

[whatthehey]

4. Of similar beliefs, but dissimilar actions

I don't know if it's that Christian fundamentalists, who incidentally really are Christians with no need for hand-washing scare quotes, lack the courage of their convictions, or don't really believe in their own words, or are just less desperate with more to lose, but while you will get plenty saying gays and atheists and infidels should be wiped from the face of the Earth and that we should institute biblical law, very very few of them, thankfully, are willing to put this into action. ISIS is not a massive group among Muslims, but they number well into 5 digits of people who really are willing to kill/die to try and return to a medieval theocracy, including using appropraitely barbaric means.

I just don't see that so much with their ideological kinfolk in the middle brother among desert monotheisms, or eldest brother even. Uganda et al have some homophobes who make Pat Robertson look like Harvey Milk as far as actions rather than words go it's true, and there are various religio-tribal conflicts featuring Christians against Muslims in Northern Africa that claim lives aplenty, but there is no organized Christian fundamentalist theocratic army, despite the best efforts of some Talibornagain staff officers to turn our own into one, out there taking territory and turning their hegemony into a Cromwellian wet-dream of Puritanism, and it's worth noting that Christian organized mayhem only takes place on a large scale among the impoverished and desperate; I doubt we have to fear machete-wielding 700 Club attack squads soon.

The risk of Xian extremism is however more real in the US at least in another way. We aren't likely to be beheaded if we disagree, but we are likely to be legally, politically, and normatively marginalized and demonized thanks to the Christisn supermajority at the ballot box. The US is not likely to have fundamentalism forced on us at knifepoint. It's just quite likely to vote it into place, and has actually done so in a few cases already.

[riqster]

9. Actually, violent Christian extremists are quite a problem.

In Africa, and here:http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/15/yes-there-are-christian-terrorists.html

[whatthehey]

12. Sure - but nowhere near the same extent. There are Buddhist and Hindu terror groups too

None however making a serious run at carving out a theocratic kingdom for themselves.

[riqster]

14. If it's only a question of degree, I don't think my OP is disproved

[riqster]

34. Another point, albeit a minor one:

The scarequotes are not used for absolution (handwashing), but to point up what I consider the misapplication of a label.

I also do this for "Republicans", "conservatives", and so on.

Words matter, and if we assign a title that does not fit, it can provide a false impression of legitimacy: that can have negative consequences.

Another example: I never once referred to Dubya as "President".

And yeah, I know it is a misapplication of punctuation.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

6. Best to confront these "terrorists" as soon as possible, like, at the visitor parking space.

[riqster]

35. I am sure that would have stopped Eric Rudolph.

Or the manifold other Army of God motherfuckers (to name only one "Christian" terror group). Sure, give them a firm telling off in the parking lot, that'll do it...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

39. Well, the militant atheists managed to stop 3 religious types recently.

[mwrguy]

7. Christian extremists have killed far more people than ISIS could ever dream of

[whatthehey]

8. I have no dog in the make believe fight, but this is not true recently

Unless of course you play juvenile rhetorical tricks like assuming the US military is a tool of Christiam extremism. Some even in high places would like to make it so, but fortunately not the ones who call the final erm....shots.

There is no Puritan militia in control of areas where millions of people live.

[riqster]

10. Depends on how narrowly you draw your definitions.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/15/yes-there-are-christian-terrorists.html

[whatthehey]

13. or how much you push the limits of definitions

Again - where is the Christian, or Hindu, or whatever, nation building at gunpoint going on (and no, the US military is still for the moment under secular command).

[riqster]

15. The OP said that there are Moslem and Christian terrorist groups.

And that they do simliar things. The fact that not as many people beheaded here does not mean that Dominionist militias don't exist, nor that their actions should be minimized.

[Pooka Fey]

11. The rule of law in Western-style democracies makes 90% of your post pointless

Last edited Wed Feb 18, 2015, 03:47 PM - Edit history (2)

Murder is illegal in the civilized world. (Killing in war by soldiers does not meet the definition of murder). Left-Behinders are abhorrent, but for now their thoughts and speech are protected under the 1st amendment.

For the 10% of your post which mentions ISIS, ISIS conquered territories are governed by Sharia law, which specifically calls for the killing of non-Muslims, among other actions which are considered criminal in 1st World countries with constitutions and laws.

You seem to be making an equivalency between "thought"-crimes/hate speech by people who profess Christian faith and actual murders and atrocities committed by Muslim Extremists. This is nonsense.

[riqster]

16. Crap. Christian terrorists exist.

Hide your head in the sand and ignore abortion clinic bombers and other examples if you wish. But denial doesn't disprove.

[Pooka Fey]

17. The western judicial system punishes criminal violence - religious inspired or otherwise

That was my point.

You are hiding your head in the sand when you obscure the fact that Islamic terror in ISIS conquered terrority is "legal" according to the their law.

That was also my point.

[riqster]

23. True, but not all that relevant in relation to the OP.

The OP was written to remind people that Deash does not have a monopoly on terror, and that we need to take care of our own homegrown terrorists as well. Instead of being distracted by MSM coverage of ISIS.

[Pooka Fey]

25. I don't make irrelevant posts.

Peace.

[riqster]

26. And upon you, peace.

[Kaleva]

18. One way to dilute the atrocities of one group is by saying everyone does it.

[riqster]

20. And another way is to say "those other guys kill more people than these".

[seveneyes]

19. Case of the mistaken mondegreen

No, it wasn't "In the garden of Eden" so many confused for reality, it is much more basic...

[riqster]

21. Wore my copy out, I must admit.

Fun fact:

The recording that is heard on the album was done as soundcheck filler for engineer Don Casale while the band waited for the arrival of producer Jim Hilton. However, after the rehearsal was completed it was agreed that the performance was of sufficient quality that another take wasn't needed.

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1388

[el_bryanto]

22. I completely agree with this

That said I am pretty tired of people trying to conflate these terrorists and extremists with all practitioners of a religion or all religion in general.

Bryant

[riqster]

24. I certainly did not mean to tar all Moslems and Christians with that brush.

Sorry if that impression was given.

[el_bryanto]

27. Not at all - I appreciate that you made the distinction.

You were very clear.

Bryant

[Fred Sanders]

28. Like Obama made crystal clear in his speech yesterday....both are evil...both cloak evil in religion

Common murderers and criminals, calling them anything else empowers them.

[riqster]

31. S'truth.

My point was that in contrast to the 24/7 hue and cry over Daesh, groups like Christian Identity are largely ignored.

[Fred Sanders]

33. Also, largely ignored is the entirety of Obama's messsage, the media filters not only Obama to suit the agenda

Sound bite analysis is not analysis, it is propganda, I keep telling folks to listen to their liberal,
President first, directly, not filtered. Look at the media mash later. Compare.

[riqster]

36. Yeah, I usually wait for transcripts myself.

[Fred Sanders]

38. Here it is:

http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/texttrans/2015/02/20150218313666.html#axzz3SCVzCrh4

[riqster]

40. Thanks.

My opinion is that we do need to understand the motivations of a group (whether or not we consider the motivation to be legit) when discussing the actions of that group.

Why is always more important than what, in the long run.

[meow2u3]

47. We can rein in domestic terrorism with one first step

Shut down Fox News and right-wing propaganda radio. Broadcasting is an FCC privilege, not a 1st amendment right.

RWNJs can spew all the hate they want, as long as they don't get to do so over the public airwaves IMO.

[Jenoch]

29. I would be interested in seeing a link

to a mainstream news organization that has a recent news article about a Christian organization who's members beheaded a group of Muslims.

[riqster]

30. So, a beheading is worse than shooting an abortion provider?

Nope. Terrorism is terrorism.

[hobbit709]

32. +1000

[Jenoch]

43. When did 21 abortion providers

get shot by Christians at the same time at the same location?

[riqster]

44. So it's quantity then?

We should only care about terrorists who kill more than a certain number of victims? FFS.

21 or 1, it is still terrorism.

Christ on a trampoline...

[Jenoch]

45. I am not justifyig the shooting of a single

abortion provider. Nor am I suggesting shooting an abortion provider is not a form of terror. I am suggesting that I am unaware of Christian groups doing as much bad stuff as most Muslim terrorists.

[riqster]

46. Nowhere in the OP did I claim quantitative equivalence.

[Nye Bevan]

37. And let's not forget the fatwa issued by the Pope against the guy who created "Piss Christ".

Didn't that artist have to go into hiding for several years? Or am I thinking of somebody else?

[riqster]

41. Damfino.

Rings a bell, but IIRC it was more a bunch of politicians yelling than pontifical peeps.

[CJCRANE]

42. Not sure about the Pope, but Bill O'Reilly just issued a fatwa

declaring Holy War.

I guess he's the Pope of the Wingnuts.