Who thinks it's mere coincidence that a NYT story to discredit HRC and Obama's State Department

[pnwmom]

pops up on the day before Netanyahu's controversial speech?

Let's not forget that the NYTimes, now promoting the false story that Hillary broke the law with her private email account -- a law that didn't exist till years later -- was a huge promoter of the Iraq war, beating false drums of war on behalf of the Bush administration.

For all we know, this smear of Clinton is part of a new effort on behalf of a future JEB administration war.

It's unlikely to be a coincidence that this story -- falsely casting a shadow over the Obama state department -- was released on the eve of Netanyahu's ominous speech.

[HereSince1628]

1. I went and read what I could about the Federal Records Act on emails

and I didn't find anything about private email accounts.

What I found was about the necessity of agencies to have policies and procedures in place that insured that emails which meet the definition of federal records would be archived.

If someone has a link that goes to a section that requires agencies use government email accounts I'd appreciate receiveing such so that my own lying eyes can read it.

[TheBlackAdder]

30. It's not like the Sarah Palin Email Fiasco wasn't telegraphing this security exposure.

Come on, while I'll vote for Hillary, I can't believe she was stupid enough to use a Yahoo email system, which is probably about as secure as using GMail-where all of their employees can read any account and even view their passwords.

I cannot fathom how government emails between state departments of various countries were entrusted to a third-party email provider.

===

Defend HRC or not, this was all brought to light when everyone (including myself) was busting Sarah Palin's balls for her secrecy and use of private emails to skirt reporting and compliance rules. Document destruction and obfuscation are the only reasons why someone would do this. John Kerry has no problems using a governmental system.

This cannot and is not any different than SP's use.

[HereSince1628]

32. About sunrise today I asked what law, reg, rule policy etc was broken

I was told Federal Records Act

I went and I read what I could find. I'm not a lawyer, no lexus research access or anything.

What I found about email in the FRA didn't say using it was illegal

I've been taking shit for reporting what I found ALL fucking day and I'm really sick of it.

Lots of assholes want to suggest security breaches etc in response to what I found.

I found what I found. I agree it's not smart re security, but what others told me was the problem ... failure to comply with the FRA actually does not say email is illegal.

That's it. That's all I have to say...the story around the FRA doesn't hold water.

If you want to argue security issues go beat someone else with your stick

[TheBlackAdder]

34. So, just because there isn't an express law forbidding it, it's OK to do? It's a deceptive act.

How many people here ragged on Palin for doing the same thing?

Almost every Dem did.

This is no different.


===


HRC's decision to use a private email -after- the Plain fiasco shows deceptiveness.

She made the conscious decision to use a system that she could control the content and release of information--even if it jeopardized the security of the United States of America. We have no idea who accesses these accounts or hacks into them, just like Palin's account was hacked into.

[HereSince1628]

37. Classic, you obviously can't read and comprehend, just wanting someone to rag on

I remember when at DU we worked on bits and pieces to get into a story

Now all people want is someone to beat on

Well if that rocks your boat, piss on buddy, piss on

[TheBlackAdder]

38. As an IT officer for a financial firm, I am NOT questioning the FRA. I'm citing 'best practices.'

No one in their right might should think a private and free email system is secure.

If a person does, they are naive.


===


This was a MAJOR security exposure.

None of my firms emails can be carried through a third-party system due to the financial risks of compromise.

[HereSince1628]

39. Well quit being a jerk. I looked where I was told to look NOTHING THERE

There may be problems but is appears to have NOTHING to do with Federal Records ACT as it relates to the National Archive. I went to their site. Nothing about email being illegal.

If it's a problem and it still could be ALL THE FUCK I AM SAYING IS DON'T WASTE TIME LOOKING THERE

What don't you get about YOU ARE CHANGING THE SUBJECT HERE, AND I AM NOT FOLLOWING THE BAIT

FOAO

[TheBlackAdder]

41. As someone who had family here since before 1628...

and on John Winthrop's ship, all I have to say is you are projecting your jerkiness onto others.

Feeling persecuted is not a way to live life.

[leveymg]

33. Under the '50 law, private communications become a public record when used for official purposes.

There is no requirement to use gov't email, just to preserve, report, and convey official correspondence. to the Archives. HRC took no steps to do any of that until a few weeks ago. She still has not produced all the email, and there's a question that it can all be recovered.

[glasshouses]

2. It was policy

In the real world if you break serious policy in your job you're fired.

[BubbaFett]

8. the rarefied world in which ANY Clinton operates?

plebeian rules simply do not apply. That would be an affront to a Clinton or ANY 1%er.

[AtomicKitten]

3. She may have violated the Federal Records Act of 1950 (updated in the 1970s) .

Federal law says letters and emails written and received by federal officials are government records that must be retained. Such correspondence is required to be saved on government servers so that it can be examined and protected, as opposed to personal emails, which are not considered to be secure. Regulations at the time Clinton served as Secretary of State called for emails on personal accounts to be preserved as well.

[pnwmom]

4. That quote refers to EXISTING Federal law, not the law when she was Secretary of State.

Please link to any actual law that banned Hillary's use of personal emails.

[AtomicKitten]

6. Federal regulations at the time, not law.

Regulations at the time Clinton served as Secretary of State called for emails on personal accounts to be preserved as well. Only official accounts are automatically retained under the Federal Records Act, meaning that none of Clinton's email communication was preserved.

[pnwmom]

13. There is no evidence that she failed to preserve any emails on her personal accounts.

That is why she could turn over 55,000 of them.

The fact that her records weren't "automatically retained" on an official account doesn't mean they weren't preserved. They were preserved, and then they were handed over.

[AtomicKitten]

20. She wasn't supposed to conduct State Department business on a private unsecured email account.

Why is this so difficult for Clinton supporters to understand? Do you not recall Democrats losing their shit when the Bush/Cheney cabal did the same thing? It seems IOKIYAR is being morphed into IOKIYAC ("C" = Clinton) by some, and that's just another flavor of bullshit.

[pnwmom]

21. Please site the specific regulation or law that said she "wasn't supposed to" use a private account. This is why the

present law -- the one that took effect after she left office -- was enacted.

[AtomicKitten]

22. THE FEDERAL RECORDS ACT FFS! IT COVERS ALL COMMUNICATIONS!

[pnwmom]

23. But she didn't fail to preserve the records. That's how she could turn over 55,000 email records

after the new law took effect.

There obviously couldn't have been anything in the 1950 law or its 1970 amendments that directed her to not use a private email account. All it did was require her to preserve records, and she did.

[AtomicKitten]

24. She used an unsecured private email account.

On top of the issue of inappropriate record-keeping, do you not understand the security concerns?



We will have to agree to disagree on this and ftr I do vehemently disagree. This puts another dent in her credibility and highlights her recklessness and poor judgment.

[pnwmom]

25. The 50-70's era law didn't anticipate email accounts, private or otherwise. It didn't and couldn't

have directed her to only use a government account (just to preserve records -- which she did). That's why the new law was finally put into place.

[leveymg]

36. The '76 Amendent specifically added "machine readable" docs as a record.

Email has been considered a form of "machine readable" communication since it was first used by federal agencies. It's in the definition of records that must be retained and sent to the Archives.

[pnwmom]

42. So? She DID preserve them, as the law required. It didn't require her to exclusively

Last edited Tue Mar 3, 2015, 09:26 PM - Edit history (2)

use government email accounts.


http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-03/hillary-clinton-camp-pushes-back-on-email-story



While NARA’s preference is that officials not use an email alias, Archivist of the United States David Ferriero said in sworn testimony in 2013 that “nothing in the law that prohibits them.”

“We don’t care how many accounts you have as long as those on which you’re doing federal business are captured for the record,” he also said.

[leveymg]

43. Act requires preserve and produce. HRC has done neither

Some of the email is still being withheld. The servers have not been examined so there is no way to tell what's been erased or deleted.

[pnwmom]

44. The only personal emails that were withheld were PERSONAL -- like emails connected with

Chesea's wedding.

You're contradicting yourself when you say there is no way to tell what's been deleted and -- at the same time -- insist she hasn't preserved and produced all the emails that pertain to the State Department.

And you're overlooking the fact that emails have records kept at both ends of any correspondence.

But any correspondence with the 100 State Department officials with whom she regularly corresponded would have already been stored on the department’s servers and Clinton’s office made sure to replicate all of those e-mails.

[leveymg]

46. She corresponded with everyone on insecure email not just staff

There isn't a duplicate record for large numbers of emails and that is precisely why she chose not to use the Dept's system which automatically logged a copy.

[pnwmom]

47. Oh, can you read her mind? Her aide said she used the system she was already accustomed to because

she's a Luddite. And I find that completely believable.

[leveymg]

50. The L uddite poster isn't her aide.

He claims to be a State Dept employee not a staffer. He doesn't know more than I do about why HRC does what she did.

[pnwmom]

51. I heard that years ago concerning her technology use. n/t

[HereSince1628]

40. Ok, so give us a link to the para.

I tried to run that down and couldn't find what you found

[fredamae]

28. Neither were Powell, Rice and Albright

Fwiw-I'm not a HRC "supporter"...but I do like to keep "scandals, accusations and other beliefs" a tad bit real and in context of the Whole picture, practice and policies.
Right now-there is Zero evidence her emails were Not preserved in the same manner that Powell, Rice and Albright did.

I can also tell you that it will be this type of crap that Will get me on board with HRC...for it is those (power/wall street/kochs et al) who want her (and other candidates) gone before she (they) announces that I Will vote For!

[AtomicKitten]

29. fuck me did you really just argue well so and so's doing it?

[fredamae]

31. Is it not a fact of protocol for them as well?

That's how they Did do it...not "are"....
If the other SoS's broke the law the way some folks "know" HRC did...then...call them out too...call out the policy..but don't single HRC or anyone else out when, at this point---accusations are unsubstantiated by fact.

[leveymg]

49. This was raised as an issue with the Bushies

They got away with it because the law has no specific penalties for noncompliance by heads of agencies. HRC knew this and chose to follow suit. She took it a xxx step further and didn't use the DOS system at all whereas Rice and Powell used the official account most of the time.

[Thinkingabout]

55. Did they have emails in 1950?

[FSogol]

5. What a co-winky-dink!

[BubbaFett]

7. Locking

creative speculation.

There's no conspiracy for big things, how could there be one for small things?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. NY Times January 25, 2008

Coincidence?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/opinion/25fri1.html?ex=

Primary Choices: Hillary Clinton

By choosing Mrs. Clinton, we are not denying Mr. Obama’s appeal or his gifts. The idea of the first African-American nominee of a major party also is exhilarating, and so is the prospect of the first woman nominee. “Firstness” is not a reason to choose. The times that false choice has been raised, more often by Mrs. Clinton, have tarnished the campaign.

Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton would both help restore America’s global image, to which President Bush has done so much grievous harm. They are committed to changing America’s role in the world, not just its image.

On the major issues, there is no real gulf separating the two. They promise an end to the war in Iraq, more equitable taxation, more effective government spending, more concern for social issues, a restoration of civil liberties and an end to the politics of division of George W. Bush and Karl Rove.

[pnwmom]

10. That was then. Now they're back to supporting the Bush family, and Jeb's nascent campaign

because he's far more likely to lead the charge against Iran, just as his brother led it against Iraq.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. They're supporting Bush against Hillary?

Gotta link? I must've missed that.

[pnwmom]

14. Not overtly. Yet. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. Then how do you deduce they're supporting Bush?

Crystal ball, palm reading, tea leaves?

They were overtly supporting Hillary in the 2008 primaries. Was that also part of a "conspiracy"?

[pnwmom]

17. They promoted Bush and his Iraq war. Now they're helping to promote

another Bush family project, a war in Iran, by smearing HRC and the Obama administration the day before Netanyahu's war mongering speech.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. So, you're denouncing the NYT for supporting the war. So did Hillary.

Was the NTY and Hillary conspiring to do so?

[Orsino]

11. Not a coincidence that the NYT still sucks.

Probably no other conspiracy here than the usual MSM half-assery.

[NCTraveler]

19. Some people are just suckers for right wing spin.

But it might possibly, could be, maybe its.......

If the reason wasn't known, I would say Hillary leaked this. It is a perfect display of people being unhinged. Hillary knows most people feel she has been vilified unfairly. Benghazi. Hillary gains support every time right wingers attack her like this. It is perfect.

[randys1]

26. Right or wrong, republican president will appoint SC justice who WILL overturn Roe and

Hillary wont

or Liz or Bernie

It is that simple for me...

As to these records, she did show a lack of judgment for sure.

If she did retain the emails and did turn them over, ALL of them, then I see no legal issue here, only a rightwing avenue of attack.

[tularetom]

27. Obama could get away with it

Probably Bill Clinton too.

I doubt that Hillary is smart enough.

[H2O Man]

35. Interesting point.

Thank you for this.

[TBF]

45. Check out the OpEd page today -

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/04/opinion/netanyahu-israel-unconvincing-iran-speech-to-congress.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region&region=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region

They didn't like his speech - and I found that very surprising coming from the NYTimes.

Clinton/JEB is the same difference anyway on economic issues.

[pnwmom]

53. Clinton/JEB are far apart on economic issues and overall.

Hillary is as far to the left as JEB is to the right, according to On the Issues.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Jeb_Bush.htm

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

[TBF]

63. At least we have a few votes from her on the federal level -

I guess that's something.

Jeb Bush on Budget & Economy
Click here for 11 full quotes on Budget & Economy OR background on Budget & Economy.

$787B economic plan: whole lot of spending & not stimulative. (Feb 2014)
Stimulus more related to liberal agenda than stimulus. (Feb 2014)
Bipartisan compromise to reduce the deficit significantly. (Dec 2012)
Mortgage bankers got us into this mess; they should solve it. (Oct 2011)
Florida budget grew by 27% during Bush's terms. (Dec 2009)
Bank bailouts were needed to avoid financial unraveling. (Aug 2009)
OpEd: 1990 S&L bailout included $4M to Jeb. (Feb 2007)
1988: Lost $4M in taxpayer bailout of failed Savings & Loan. (Aug 1999)
Supports constitutional balanced budget amendment. (Nov 1998)
Bankruptcy reform: limit Chapter 7; protect states' role. (Feb 2001)
Uphold commitments to states before other spending. (Sep 2001)

Hillary Clinton on Budget & Economy
Click here for 22 full quotes on Budget & Economy OR 10 older headlines OR other candidates on Budget & Economy OR background on Budget & Economy.

We need bankruptcy reform, but we need the right kind. (Aug 2014)
1998: Personally lobbied Congress against bankruptcy bill. (Apr 2014)
The economy is not working for middle class families. (Jan 2008)
Look back to 1990s to see how I’d be fiscally responsible. (Dec 2007)
Balanced budget replaced with rising costs & falling wages. (Jun 2007)
2000: Eight years of a great economy is not enough. (Jan 2007)
Co-sponsored bills totaling $502B in spending thru 2005. (Oct 2006)
Use tax dollars to upgrade infrastructure, not for stadium. (Oct 2000)
Pay down debt & cut taxes within balanced budget. (Sep 2000)
Supports Niagara casino, but prefers job creation strategy. (Sep 2000)
Protect next generation by paying off national debt. (Aug 2000)
We have outlived the usefulness of Bretton Woods. (Jun 1999)
The economy creates consumers but cannot create citizens. (Jun 1999)
Invest in people instead of “smokestack chasing”. (Feb 1997)

Voting Record
Voted to limit credit card interest to 30%. (Jan 2008)
FactCheck: Consistently against making bankruptcy stricter. (Jan 2008)
2005 bankruptcy bill was by big credit cards & lenders. (Jan 2008)
Voted YES on $60B stimulus package for jobs, infrastructure, & energy. (Sep 2008)
Voted NO on paying down federal debt by rating programs' effectiveness. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on $40B in reduced federal overall spending. (Dec 2005)
Require full disclosure about subprime mortgages. (Dec 2007)
Reform mortgage rules to prevent foreclosure & bankruptcy. (Feb 2008)

[spanone]

48. ...

[djean111]

52. Who thinks it is a coincidence that Warren Buffet and Howard Dean would both come out with

criticism and "advice" for Elizabeth Warren on the same day?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

54. So we shouldn't trust the NYT because they were all for the Iraq War...

But we should trust Hillary Clinton, who was all for the Iraq War.

Got it.

[pnwmom]

57. Hillary wasn't pushing false stories justifying the war. She just heard too many of them,

especially Colin Powell's, and they caused her to vote the way she did.

[frylock]

60. we all heard the stories, but many of us weren't fooled..

you should've been here on DU when Powell was giving his presentation.

[pnwmom]

61. I was here when Powell was giving his presentation. And I agree with Ted Kennedy

and what he had to say about it.

By the following spring, when Bush ignored the limits of the IWR and invaded Iraq (despite the lack of any WMD's) everyone knew without any question that Powell had been lying.

But during the previous fall Powell still had credibility with most Americans, and even most Democrats. (He'd long been viewed as a non-partisan moderate, and both parties had considered urging him to run for the Presidency.)

Ted Kennedy said the reason he voted against the IWR was because -- as a member of the Armed Services Committee -- he had access to classified presentations by the military, so he knew that Powell and the rest of the Administration were lying in their public presentations. But the ordinary Senate member or citizen didn't.

[Historic NY]

56. If they found the emails that means she turned them over to state when she left.....

otherwise there would still be an active account. The law was not in effect when she left in 2013 it came in at the later part of 2014. https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/1233


(Sec. 10) Prohibits an officer or employee of an executive agency from creating or sending a record using a non-official electronic messaging account unless such officer or employee: (1) copies an official electronic messaging account of the officer or employee in the original creation or transmission of the record, or (2) forwards a complete copy of the record to an official electronic messaging account of the officer or employee not later than 20 days after the original creation or transmission of the record. Provides for disciplinary action against an agency officer or employee for an intentional violation of such prohibition.

Obviously the emails are in government archive or states hands.

[GusBob]

58. Not to mention that this info was discovered by GOP investigators

During the Benghazi hearings

[Renew Deal]

59. I think the connection is Jeb's email

He released his stuff and then attacked.

[riversedge]

65. jeb also used a commerical account and did NOT release all emails from

this personal account while gov.


The Last Word had a report on this tonight.--or maybe it was Maddow Report. Sorry but can not recall which show did.

[Android3.14]

62. That's a reasonable suspicion

Was it a Republican tactic to create a squabble over Clinton in order to distract from the Netanyahu boondoggle?

or

Was it an Clinton and/or DLC tactic to prompt a huge national audience to listen to her speak at the Emily's List PAC thingamajig?

Both?

Clickbait?

[applegrove]

64. I don't think there is a connection.

[Rex]

66. I've been told by DU Experts(tm) that CTs are not real, so I guess I will side with them

on this one. Their knowledge is vast in the field of knowing all things.

[McCamy Taylor]

67. No coincidence. This is how the NeoCons roll.

[Hekate]

68. Oh pnwmom, it's all just one big coinkydink. Not.

Damnation but it's already gotten so ugly