Darrell Issa (R), Hillary's chief nemesis, admits her private email use was not a crime.

[pnwmom]

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-08/benghazi-panel-members-spar-over-whether-to-release-clinton-s-e-mails

Representative Darrell Issa, a California Republican who also investigated the Benghazi attack when he led the House Committee on Oversight & Government Reform, said Clinton did not “break a law for which there is a penalty” and defended the committee's move to issue subpoenas for her messages.

“A subpoena, which Trey Gowdy issued, is so that in fact it will be a crime if she knowingly withholds documents pursuant to subpoena,” Issa said on CNN.

[libdem4life]

1. Et tu, Issa? /s/ Republicans

[Cosmic Kitten]

29. Yeah, because "they" are in the same boat as Hillary

Something about "glass houses" and some such stuffs

[trusty elf]

31. ........

[img][/img]

[pinto]

2. He was really skittish on CNN this AM. Seemed uncomfortable.

May just be my perception though. I can't stand the guy. He's one shady character in my book.

[liberal N proud]

3. That will not stop the incessant persecution of Hillary by the Republicans and the M$M

[pnwmom]

4. Of course it won't. They would do this to any likely Democratic candidate,

just as they have to Obama.

[Buzz Clik]

26. Nor the Hill-haters here at DU.

[Wellstone ruled]

5. Well well,Issa forgot his talking point.

Oh well,won't make a lick of difference,the Ratass Rethugs have no morals anyway.

[freshwest]

6. This means she's GOP! They're covering for her on the Benghazi scandal!

Do I really need a icon on this?

Okay, just in case:

[Thor_MN]

11. Is that like a double negative?

[hopemountain]

20. ...

[freshwest]

21. Just going with the theme, friend. Just trying to get along. By the way...

to you!

[rpannier]

70. C'mon

We all know Issa is a RINO.
He's tight with most Democrats
Has been for years

No... I won't put a sarcasm tag on this
If you're that **mb you need one, then put me on your ignore list

BTW: If you have one of those car alarms that tells you to step away from the car and begins counting down
You have Issa's invention. That's his annoying voice

[Iliyah]

7. I already knew that, but the corporate masters say milk it with lies lies lies

ya know what GOPers do by nature.

[OKNancy]

8. That was on the same show where the email story blew up

discussed in the Hillary Group post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11072075

( The committee already had the emails and read them. Nothing there. They issued a subpoena because of political pressure )

[pnwmom]

9. My question about that was

was he saying they had gotten all 50,000 emails already, or are they just talking about the 300 pertaining to Benghazi?

[OKNancy]

10. don't know??

[ananda]

12. So they're taking 50,000 emails to look to find a crime?

What the fuck?

[karynnj]

33. Maybe more than the 55000 -- they could claim they want access to the server

and every single email. They might even be smart enough to ask that a neutral person get the access to split out the private from the public. Yes, I know the Clinton aides said they did this, but do you think the Republicans will believe them? Would we have believed a Republican in a similar circumstance?

There have already been many many witch hunts - with nothing found, but that will not stop them. I am not justifying what they have done, but simply saying that this will give them additional fuel to fire their rage for a while.

[pnwmom]

67. They would have done this no matter what -- it makes no difference to them

whether her emails were on .gov or personal accounts. They want to turn this into another Kenneth Starr type witch-hunt.

Did they need any excuse to go after Bill Clinton this way? No. And they don't for Hillary either -- or they would have stopped the Benghazi investigations several years ago.

[karynnj]

69. You miss my point, but since you mentioned Bill, maybe I can make it clearer

The RW goes after ANY top Democrat. Look at everything they have thrown at Obama.

My point is that unless this is handled very well, this whole email story has given them the fuel they need to get anyone beyond the right fringe to give it any credibility. I KNOW that it is a very weal argument to say that there could have things on that server that could have made her look bad - if not in Benghazi, then in something else. (This in addition to reminding everyone of HRC's perchance for secrecy.)

The Bill counterpart, was that while there was a list -- just as long as their Obama "scandal" list - none of which really became scandals -- until he fooled around with Monica and failed to tell the truth and the whole truth under oath.

My point is that - unfair as it is - Democrats can't give them ammunition - they will use it.

[freshwest]

23. OMG! I googled that group at the link:

StopHillaryPAC

Make sure Hillary Clinton never becomes president! America can't survive another term of Obama-era radical liberalist policies implemented by a Bill and Hillary Clinton team back in the White House. In 2016, it will be too late to stop Hillary. We've got to hold her accountable right now.

Stop Hillary PAC was created for one reason only -- to save America from the destructive far-left, liberal cancer created by Bill and Hillary Clinton that's trying to corrupt America. Stand with Stop Hillary PAC today to take a stand for America's future and STOP Hillary dead in her tracks.

HELP STOP HER NOW:

http://www.stophillarypac.org/

'Obama-era radical liberalist policies implemented by a Bill and Hillary Clinton team back in the White House.'

Stop Hillary PAC was created for one reason only -- to save America from the destructive far-left, liberal cancer created by Bill and Hillary Clinton that's trying to corrupt America.

BWAHAHA! They're wetting their pants! And I'm loving it!

[SidDithers]

65. Wow. Reading that stuff and trumad's posts ring all the more true...nt

Sid

[freshwest]

68. Quick! ODS has mutated into a new and deadlier strain of 'Something Awful.'

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse.

This is gonna drive me away from them.

Just Sayin'

[DeSwiss]

13. Issa: Now there's a bastion of legal knowledge and propriety.

Last edited Sun Mar 8, 2015, 09:11 PM - Edit history (1)

- Really, sometimes people should just stop and leave things alone. Because the more they try to make things seem okay, the more bizarre it gets.

''...early in the morning of September 7, 1982, the offices and factory of Quantum and Steal Stopper in the Cleveland suburb of Maple Heights, caught fire. The fire took three hours to put out. The buildings and almost all inventory within were destroyed. An investigation of the cause of the fire noted "suspicious burn patterns" with fires starting in two places aided by an accelerator such as gasoline. Adkins said that Issa appeared to prepare for a fire by increasing the fire insurance policy 462% three weeks previously, and by removing computer equipment holding accounting and customer information. Adkins said that he thinks Issa set the fire on purpose. The insurance company was suspicious of arson and paid only about one-tenth the insured amount. link

[DRoseDARs]

14. I wonder how many private email servers one can stuff in a stolen car... nt

[calimary]

15. Kicking!!!

Fot THIS post alone!!!! Let's all keep this firmly in mind ANY time he's out there in public, moralizing and running off at the mouth.

darrell issa speaks with a HUGELY forked tongue. Has for a LONG time. He's about the last guy on earth who can accuse ANYONE else of impropriety or violating the law.

[pnwmom]

16. Wow. I'd never heard that story. Thanks! n/t

[guillaumeb]

28. have you read this story?

You really cannot make this stuff up!
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/16/150739985/house-investigator-issa-has-faced-allegations-as-well

a former car thief making millions selling anti-theft devices.

[pnwmom]

30. What idiots the people in his district were to elect him.

[SoapBox]

17. Scum Issa is dirty.

Unbelievable that such a crook is in the position he is.

[msongs]

18. so will his minions on DU go along? nt

[pnwmom]

19. Never!

[AtomicKitten]

22. Free msongs!

Last edited Sun Mar 8, 2015, 10:22 PM - Edit history (1)

You are the 34th person blocked in the Hillary Clinton group. You should petition that group to be taken off the blocked list. You have suffiently demonstrated you've had a change of heart and are willing to carry her water here on DU.

FREE MSONGS!!

[rickford66]

24. And some of Issa's actions aren't criminal either.

[Buzz Clik]

25. How ironic. A lot of DUers still think Hillary should go to jail for this.

[karynnj]

34. I have not seen a single post that suggests that

I have seen many posts that wish that she had acted in accordance with some comments she made on valuing transparency. She may emerge mostly unscathed from this, but I can't help but thing that this will bring back memories of various times when HRC was not immediately forthcoming in the Clinton years - maybe because she resented the unfair accusations. They are not pleasant memories.

[Buzz Clik]

36. While I will admit that my "go to jail" comment was pure hyperbole (thus the :eyes:)...

... I would also suggest that "wishing she had acted with more transparency" would represent one of the softest, most forgiving views posted at DU. The midpoint of disapproval sat squarely with "unacceptable candidate" or "unqualified."

My view of HRC is similar to your comments: a series of disappointments. As president, I think she would be equal parts pragmatist and polarizing figure.

Anyway... I thought it interesting that Issa's viewpoint was closer to reality than, in my view, the mainstream DUer.

[karynnj]

37. I would not give Issa that much credit - he is far worse

Note that what he said was that that she did not break a law "For which there is a penalty" This begs an immediate question of whether there are laws without penalties for breaking them. He also then goes on - the bolded part of the OP - to suggest that if HRC knowingly withholds documents that are asked for by Growdy - that will be a crime.

Now, HRC has already sent 55,000 pages of emails to the State Department that will obviously be included in searches once processed and she has asked the SD to make them public. This leads to a question of what is he talking about. The ONLY thing I can think of is that he is calling on Growdy to demand ALL the emails ever on the server. He is opening up the "what was left out - what was hidden in the Clinton basement - meme. If I guess right, this will be used - by him as the RW - to NEVER accept that there really is no smoking gun.

What is most regrettable is that this gives any air to one of the most despicable allegations that either party has ever made. Benghazi was a failure to protect the ambassador and others, but the reality is that there are places where a US ambassador really is at some very real risk. They accept these assignments knowing this out of patriotism and the hope that they can make a better world. Their deaths should never have been made a political football.

(Note that the RW is not even consistent - they made a huge issue of the US marines destroying their weapons that were left behind when they and everyone from the Yemen embassy successfully left the country with no one harmed.)

[MBS]

43. I agree with all of this

Very important point about Benghazi -- and, one, needless to say, never mentioned by Republicans.

What HRC did vis a vis her email server was not illegal; it was, however, phenomenally stupid in terms of political strategy, in that (as has been noted here and elsewhere), it once again raises all the old issues about Clintonian propensity for secrecy, lack of transparency, rule-bending, etc etc. . and, in the short term, it's re-awakened the Benghazi non-issue. (For me, it also has raised serious questions about the competence of her team: to win the presidency, her team really needs to get its act together, if the decision to use private email exclusively while Sec of State, and their mishandling so far of the recent fall-out re that decisions, is a sample of their lack of strategic sense).

As usual, the Republicans are over-reacting and over-hyping the seriousness of the email issue, and that over-reaction may save HRC, as public revulsion against Republican over-reach has saved the Clintons before. At lot of Dems, including apparently the Clinton strategists (given their silence so far), seem to be hoping that "emailgate" will just disappear if not discussed. However, IMHO, in thinking this will go away by itself, these Dems are just whistling in the dark. I agree with both Sen. Feinstein and David Axelrod: unless and until HRC steps up and addresses this issue directly, answering all the reasonable questions that have been raised, even by left-leaning op-ed columnists, it will continue to fester. And, fairly or not, continued silence will continue to hurt her (presumed) campaign.

I hope she does this soon, and compellingly: because we really, really need to win in 2016, for the sake of the Supreme Court, among many other reasons.

[karynnj]

61. I hope so too

Another comment is that if the current strategy is for her to stay quiet and have all the Democrats protect her, it won't work and it is unfair to President Obama.

This weekend, President Obama gave an awesome speech - something he does have a habit of doing - that was inspirational.

His administration is working incredibly hard to get what will be a game changing deal with Iran. The significance can be seen by the strength of the forces working against it. This is an incredible reject of the dominant neo-con foreign policy. I never thought the neo cons would give in easily, but between 47 Senators writing Iran against the President and inviting a foreign leader for the OPEN PURPOSE of speaking against the President, they have exceeded any expectations I ever had in the length they are prepared to go.

Yet, the President's spokesperson has been badgered with questions on what he knew and when he knew it with regards to his former SoS's personal email server. Then I read comments that the Clinton people feel that Obama is not doing enough to protect her.

Who is right goes to something we don't know. Who's bright idea was it to do this? If it was Clinton's - this story has damaged the reputation of Obama's administration. Only if - for some unimaginable reason, Obama pushed Clinton to do this is there ANY reason for him to use any of his political capital - that he badly needs himself to get support for things he sees are needed.

Yes, I know that she is the most likely nominee, however OBAMA is the current President. She needs to explain this herself.

[MBS]

64. Washington Post this afternoon

Fulfilling Axelrod's prophecy that the "yarn would continue to unravel" if these issues are not addressed promptly, WaPo now is taking on the issue of her several nontraditional appt-arrangements with trusted aides who also kept their private =sector jobs. . .http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-e-mails-prompt-another-inquiry-on-capitol-hill/2015/03/09/db3cd3b4-c374-11e4-9ec2-b418f57a4a99_story.html?wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1

PBS Newshour tonight hinted that Hillary is apparently planning a news conference sometime this week. If true --I'm really glad, and it can't come soon enough.

[spanone]

27. they looked & looked and finally found someone slimy enough to replace issa....

[CincyDem]

51. A Slytherin alum if ever there was one. lol n/t

[Orsino]

32. This seems an important point that will be largely ignored by the media.

Still a lot of room for Republican hand-wrining over "transparency" concerns...and just possibly a scandal if Clinton's State Dept. turns out to have ignored or thumbed its nose at Executive guidelines...or if a significant failure on the White House's part to folliw up left this thing hanging.

[econoclast]

35. 18 U.S. Code § 2071 ...

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.

[pnwmom]

38. That law, which applies to records "filed or deposited with any clerk" etc., is irrelevant.

Did you suppose no one here can read?

[econoclast]

39. Or any public office or public officer

[pnwmom]

40. You can't pick out a few words from a statute to make it apply.

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

I've bolded the key words. The statute only applies to records and other things that have been "filed or deposited with" the offices or people listed. But those emails of Hillary's remained in her private account. They were never publicly filed or deposited (until Obama asked for them last fall) and never removed from a public account.

[econoclast]

41. Emails are certainly 'records'

And the whole POINT is that her private email scheme kept these records from being 'filed'. Its like someone who murdered their parents asking for lenience because they are an orphan!

[pnwmom]

42. Of course they are. That's not the point. This law doesn't prohibit or apply any penalty

to NOT DEPOSITING. It only applies to removing, destroying, etc. records that have previously been deposited.

This is part of why the law was changed in 2013 and why Issa is acknowledging she committed no crime. She complied with the laws that were in effect when she was in office.

[econoclast]

44. Just to confirm

This is what you want to hang your hat on. Because she intercepted records that SHOULD HAVE BEEN 'FILED' far enough upstream that they never did get officially 'filed' ... That makes it OK? This is the argument you want to make?

[pnwmom]

45. She didn't intercept records. And statutes don't define what is "OK."

Statutes define crimes.

And I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Obama knew what she was doing while she was doing it and he never told her to stop using that account.

Or do you distrust him, too?

[econoclast]

47. Just want people to follow the rules

Is that too much to ask?

[pnwmom]

49. That "rule" didn't exist when she was in office. If it had Obama

would have told her to follow it.

[econoclast]

53. Rule in place since 2005

My understanding is that while personal email was technically OK, one was supposed to file - within 60 days - a hard copy or forward to your work .gov email anything work related done on your personal email.

That is .... The rule was that you were SUPPOSED to be using your work .gov email. But in the rare instance you couldn't or didn't you were supposed to provide hard copy or a forward within 60 days.

[pnwmom]

54. No, there was no time limit. That 60 day time limit was part of the new law,

not any law that was in effect while Hillary was in office. And when Obama finally asked Hillary for her emails, she sent 55000 pages of them.

This is why even Darryl Issa admits that Hillary didn't break any law.

And President Obama knew she was using her private email for government work -- she sent emails to him from that address -- and he didn't care.

Meanwhile, Colin Powell has acknowledged that he dumped all his email records after he left office. Funny that you don't seem to care about that at all.

[econoclast]

50. If you don't like 'intercept'

How about 'sidetrack'? Mis-route?

[pnwmom]

52. None of them apply. If they did, Obama or his staff would have told her. n/t

[econoclast]

55. Purloined?

'Clandestine?
'Surreptitious?
Withheld?

[pnwmom]

56. "Tacitly condoned by the President."

And by every other Government official who never spoke up about this the whole time she was Secretary of State.

There was nothing surreptitious about this at all. She was openly using the private account. Obama could have stopped her and Congress could have enacted a new law. They didn't bother till after she left office.

[econoclast]

57. Which makes it OK?

No it does not

[pnwmom]

58. Yup. In the real world that makes it okay. n/t

[econoclast]

59. Because the President IS the law?

And here I always thought we were a nation governed by laws, not by men. Just goes to show how wrong you can be.

[pnwmom]

60. SHE BROKE NO LAW. Congress changed the law after she left office --

partly because they wanted to put an end to the use of non-governmental accounts - but no law applies retroactively.

[econoclast]

62. And, in the real world....

The President says the first he heard of HEC's private email was what he just read in the paper. So...he gave no approval, tacit or otherwise.

[pnwmom]

63. Nope, that's what he first said. But his spokesman has already walked that back.

Now Obama's acknowledging that they had traded emails and he was aware she was using a private account. He just didn't realize the extent of her use of it.

Apparently it never mattered enough for him to find out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026337098

[Raster]

46. Correct me if wrong, but didn't all the heavy-hitter scumbags of cheney*-bush* use private email...

...servers housed and maintained at the Rethuglican National Committee orifices ('scuse me) OFFICES?

[pnwmom]

48. Yup, that's what I remember, too. That's probably why some of them

are hanging back on the criticism. They know there could be blowback.

[Number23]

66. He's EVERYBODY'S chief nemesis

[McCamy Taylor]

71. Are they trying to read ALL her emails or just the SOS ones? Sounds like fishing to me.

[pnwmom]

72. It's a fishing expedition. They want another Ken Starr situation,

searching for anything to charge her with.