Maryland court finds pit bulls are 'inherently dangerous'

[RadiationTherapy]

I'm going to start this thread, but I may not be able to finish it...

The Maryland Court of Appeals ruling declares pit bulls as a breed are "inherently dangerous," and the owner of a pit bull or a cross-bred pit that attacks is strictly liable for damages, as is any landlord who rents to a pit bull owner.

"Back in 1997 they passed a law saying you could not own or harbor a pit bull or a pit bull mix in Prince George's County,” Taylor said. “If you happen to have one or are caught with one you could be arrested. It does carry six months in prison and a $1,000 fine for having one."

Now the law finds pit bull owners throughout Maryland absolutely accountable for the behavior of their dogs.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/02/11500617-maryland-court-finds-pit-bulls-are-inherently-dangerous?lite

[Xyzse]

1. Hrm.

See, I agree that owners should be accountable for their dogs no matter what breed they are. It doesn't matter if they are a pitbull or what have you.

The dog I want, which I probably will never get is supposedly worse than a Pitbull. They are called Ovarchka.
Saying that, Ovarchkas are known to be a joy when they are well adjusted, trained and socialized.

So as mentioned, I agree that dog owners should be accountable for their pets but I don't see why Pitbulls have to be singled out. They are some of the sweetest dogs I've met.

((Worst one I met is a punk Jack Russel, which is small but nippy))

[flvegan]

41. You are the only person I've seen, other than me

to mention the Ovcharka. Brilliant dog, in the wrong hands, nothing more dangerous.

[Xyzse]

79. Yes they are

I seriously want one but given the space requirements, time needed and everything, I don't see myself getting one till I am much much older.

[racaulk]

2. .

[Dr. Strange]

4. Scooch over!

[FloridaJudy]

6. I'll order breadsticks

[Dr. Strange]

14. You know who has good breadsticks?

[madinmaryland]

21. The Olive Garden in Mid-town Manhattan!

[racaulk]

30. !!!

[justabob]

3. conflicted

Like the above poster, I think owners should be responsible for their pets, regardless of breed/species, but blanket bans are difficult to enforce and I don't think it will do much to solve the problems. Pitbulls in particular, are a tough one, because there are so many that ARE managed correctly and have good owners/training and are as sweet as a kitten. However, there are way too many owners of pits looking for tough guy status symbols, and well meaning folks who don't have the discipline to train/socialize them properly before we even get to the folks who train them or neglect them to be mean and/or fighting dogs. I don't know what the answer is, but I am pretty sure that banning the breed is not going to keep people from being mauled. And beyond that, what is to stop the same bad owners from getting a rottie next time and doing the same thing.... or a doberman or a gsd or a mastiff or chow or whatever?

[FloridaJudy]

7. "Sweet as a kitten"?

Judging by some kittens I've met, not much of an endorsement. That said, I've never met a pit bull I didn't like, mostly because they belong to responsible friends.

[justabob]

9. lol

yeah, I thought about that after I posted it.

How about sweet as a fluffy bunny?

[FloridaJudy]

15. My friends who keep pits

Love them because they're intelligent, loyal dogs that learn fast, not because they're tough, though they are that as well. A number of my friends are amateur farmers or ranchers, and they need a dog that can work. Another number are single women who've found walking a pit bull at night makes you feel a bit safer than, say, walking a poodle, even though poodles are smart dogs as well. Not that their dogs are aggressive, but most bad guys believe they are!

[justabob]

17. right...

Agreed on the effect of pit vs poodle in the perception of safety. I had a gsd rescue because I like them as a breed, but that others associated my fraidy cat "police dog" with a potential threat, was an added bonus as a single female in a large city. There are a lot of great, useful, friendly pits out there. I worry about the mills and various others serving the "tough guys" though... breeding for aggression etc, feeding into the macho tough guy with scary dogs image.

[guitar man]

36. the ironic thing is

most of the mills that are breeding dogs that the "tough guys" want are breeding mutts that are so far away from what an American Pit Bull Terrier actually is that none of us that actually know the breed can even recognize them anymore. And some of the guys get so insulted when I point it out.

"I got papers with him!!"

Yeah where did you get them, out of a Cracker Jack box?

[justabob]

39. right, there is that too

the only "real" one I knew didn't look anything like the creatures called "pit bull" by others, except for having big head.

[guitar man]

40. Exactly

For reference, THIS dog is a genuine American Pit Bull Terrier



this dog is not



But in the eyes of the media and the uninitiated, both dogs are "pit bulls". To lump them together as one "breed" is wholly inaccurate.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

35. sure...

[justabob]

38. hahaha..... bad bunny!

I knew some smart ass would come up with something against fluffy bunnies.

[magical thyme]

5. huh? I thought dog owners already were responsible for their dog's behavior

Personally, I'd like to see children owners held responsible for their spawns behavior too. Also leash laws for all for them. And muzzle laws for the mouthy ones

Oh, and I've determined that I hate Maryland. An awful lot of cop shooting innocent dog stories have come out of Bawimoah.

[Archae]

8. I've never been bit by a pit bull.

But only one Yorkshire Terrier I met didn't try to eat my ankles.

[Whiskeytide]

10. No information on the reasoning..

... stated by the court. I would like to see that.

I'm a dog person, but I've never owned a pit bull (some lovable mutts - but at least nothing that looked like a pit bull). So I don't have first hand experience with them. I have always believed they are not any more aggressive than other dogs, and like most dogs are mostly the product of their environment. But I think they have several things working against their image.

1. The impression I have is that they tend to be the dog of choice for owners who DO want or train them to be aggressive, who are likely to mistreat them and teach them aggression, and/or who engage in sports like dog fighting - all probably because of their tough appearance and reputation. When you hear about a dog fighting incident, or when you see a caricature of a drug dealer in a movie, the dogs involved are frequently Pit Bulls or a similar looking breed. I don't know if this is statistically true or not, but it is nevertheless the general sense I get, and I assume many others get it as well.

2. Somewhere along the line I picked up the idea that, although a Pit Bull is no more likely -instinctively - to be aggressive than a German Shepard, the difference is that once a conflict begins, the Pit Bull is instinctively more driven to finish it than many other breeds. I.e., the GS might bite and run, while the PB is less likely to do that. This may be total BS, but it is what I heard many years ago. The fighting history of the dog, as well as even the common name "Pit Bull", lend an "oh, that makes sense" quality to this contention.

3. They are big, strong dogs, and I understand they have very powerful jaws. Thus, when they do attack a person, they are capable of doing a lot of damage in a short time. Thus, they ARE more dangerous than a schnauzer. a beagle or a collie, simply based on the difference in customary size and strength. They might be no more nor less likely to bite than these other breeds, but they would seem to be more likely to cause a serious injury when they do bite

4. At the end of the day, despite all rational considerations to the contrary, if my 4 year old is in the presence of a Pit Bull, I am going to be uncomfortable about it. And, probably - no, actually certainly - more uncomfortable than I would if he were playing with a Lab, a Saint Bernard, an Irish Setter, or a Great Dane. Does that make logical sense? Probably not. Is it primarily because of the popular culture based reputation of the breed? Most assuredly. But its still how I would feel because the parent "instinct" in me says "better safe than sorry" when it comes to my kids.

I think all of these things - whether completely accurate or not - are out there, and tend to stoke the reputation of the "killer Pit Bull".

[laundry_queen]

57. I agree with what you've said.

Those things are my impression as well, whether they are myths or not they are still my impression.

Our neighbours have 2 pit bulls. I've petted them, and sweet talked them. They are so loving and beautiful - and they are so powerful. SO much more powerful than my brother's pushy Lab. The one pit bull wanted me to pet him more so started shoving at me and damn near knocked me over - and I'm not a small person. This is a dog that is much smaller than my brother's oversize Lab and I was blown away by his power and strength in comparison - my brother's dog cannot push me over like that. Our neighbours take meticulous care of their dogs, go on multiple walks/bike rides with them, make them wear booties and coats in the winter, never leave them off leash etc. Yet, the other day, when one of my kids came inside from playing and said, "MOM! One of the dogs from next door got out!" you can bet I ushered my children inside before I went to have a look (the dog was inside by the time I got there). Like you said, my instinct says, "better safe than sorry." For the record, I watch my kids like a hawk when they are around my brother's Lab as well, but I do get more vigilant with the neighbour's dogs. And when I'm dog sitting my parents' tiny maltese-mix, you can bet I make sure the coast is clear before letting him out. He probably looks more like prey than a fellow canine to those dogs.

[guardian]

11. Maryland JUDGES are inherently STUPID.

n/t

[madinmaryland]

22. Huh? One decision that you disagree with makes all Maryland judges "stupid"

[RadiationTherapy]

12. I understand careless ownership, but isn't a careless owner of a small dog

different from a careless owner of a large dog? Forgive my hyperbole, but isn't a careless bb-gun owner different from a careless rifle owner?

[EFerrari]

19. On Sunday, I had to ask the owner of a 125-50 lb Rottweiler to take his dog

off the ranch and not to bring it back. The dog was beautiful but he seemed to weigh more than the owner who could barely hang on to the leash. Oh, and he scared the sh!t out of me. I probably wouldn't have had the same issue with a little dog who couldn't have torn me apart on a whim. That may be stupid and biased but, there it is.

[Major Nikon]

74. The breed matters also

The problem is that dogs have a hard time discriminating between dogs and people. They don't make the same differentiations between the two like people do. As far as a dog is concerned, the family that owns him is his pack. There's a reason why people who fight dogs use pit bulls pretty much exclusively. They have been bred over many years specifically to fight and kill other dogs. I've seen pit bulls kill other dogs. They do so very efficiently. They lock on to the other dog's throat and they don't let go until the other dog is dead or they are dead. They come by this behavior instinctively just like a border collie will instinctively herd sheep. So while a 50 lb golden retriever might bite the shit out of your leg, a 50lb pit bull might rip your throat out. Check the statistics on which breed of dogs kill people and pit bulls inevitably are at the top of that list. No other breed comes close.

[BklnDem75]

13. I read that as 'inherently delicious'

[FloridaJudy]

16. Obama lover!

[EFerrari]

18. LOL. DUzy.

[TZ]

20. and the fact that I was *terrorized* by a German Sheppard

as a child means nothing. ITS NOT THE BREED ITS THE OWNERS! I do agree that owners should be liable for their dogs behavior, but I was also nearly bitten by a neighborhood cockapoo as well. Singling out a specific breed is assinine.

[LaurenG]

23. I was viciously attacked by a cocker spaniel at the age of 9

Last edited Wed May 2, 2012, 03:08 PM - Edit history (1)

[FloridaJudy]

24. As was I.

Since the little frigger bit me on the shoulder, I had to have rabies shots. Came in handy when my uncle's border collie bit me a few years later. I was a kid. What did I know that taking a dog's tennis ball away to play catch with him would provoke certain neurotic crittters to be believe you a thief?

A vet once told me the most unstable, vicious dog she'd ever treated was a golden retriever. Any breed of dog can be a killer if mistreated.

[cabot]

29. That makes three of us!

Perhaps cocker spaniels should be banned! (i'm joking of course).

[laundry_queen]

58. 4 of us, LOL!

However, back then it seemed cocker spaniel was the only breed anyone had in my town. If I was going to be bit by a dog, there were no other breeds around, LOL.

[TheKentuckian]

25. We have too many stupid judges in this country

[TrogL]

26. Then they'd better ban dachshunds as well. Mine attack pit bulls, who run in terror.

One time I saw the smaller of my two turn a German Shepherd guard dog who was on duty at the time into a whimpering mass of confusion. The owner came out to find out and literally fell down laughing.

[cabot]

27. This is just sad

Any dog can be dangerous if it has a bad owner. I've been attacked by two dogs in my life. One was a cocker spaniel and the other was a lab. We had a chihuahua/terrier mix that didn't like children - they were too rough with her.

[Meiko]

28. There is a trend

starting around the country for shelters to classify pit bulls as non adoptable and they are euthanized 100%. I have read more than one story on it. The shelters don't want the liability of adopting a dog out that may turn out to be vicious and ultimately harm someone.

[guitar man]

31. Does anybody know

Last edited Thu May 3, 2012, 08:38 PM - Edit history (1)

If the text of the actual decision/opinion of the court has been posted anywhere? I'd like to read exactly what the court decided without the "news filter"

thanks

Edit: When I revisited the story the hyperlink to the text of the ruling showed up so I could read it. Monumentally stupid ruling. There is no such breed as a "pit bull". "Pit Bull" is a term that has been used to describe everything from a Bandogge to American Bulldogs to Boxer mixes and gawd knows what else. I sincerely hope this piss ignorant ruling gets thrown out.

[RZM]

32. I've had nothing but great experiences with pit bulls

But I do agree with accountability. They have been bred to be tough little bastards. Any pit owner could tell you they have a very high pain threshold. A neglected/abused pit bull can be dangerous. But a pit bull raised by a responsible owner can be a wonderful pet.

[RebelOne]

33. I have had 2 pit bulls and 2 Rottweilers.

They were totally sweet dogs. But now, I have a Chihuahua that is more vicious than any pit bull or Rottweiler could ever be. One of my Rottweilers would run into another room if a stranger came in. But the Chihuahua will attack anyone who comes into the house. I have to lock her into the bedroom.

[Stinky The Clown]

34. Monumentally misguided

[guitar man]

37. +1000

...and monumentally stupid. I hope this piece of crap gets overturned.

[cynatnite]

42. I wouldn't own that breed of dog...

I'll get slammed for this, but there are just too many stories out there about pit bulls and rots who kill. It could be either because of the breed or because of the owner...maybe it's both. I just feel that the reputation these breeds have may be deserved.

Having said that, I also know that there are plenty of owners who have these animals and never had a problem. I have a good friend with 2 pit bulls and she insists they are big babies. She keeps them in the back yard when I visit on occasion. I'd rather not be around them.

My friend is very knowledgable and experienced with these dogs. She has spent a lot of time working with her dogs and giving them a well rounded life. Listening to her talk and looking at her pictures with them, it's obvious they are a very happy family.

Maybe if dogs like these who have attacked had an owner like my friend maybe they wouldn't happen in the first place.

We have a bird and a cat anyway.

Also, I honestly don't see how a court could dictate what breed of dog is allowed to be owned.

[.99center]

51. You have a greater risk

Last edited Fri May 4, 2012, 03:05 AM - Edit history (1)

Of getting killed by lightning. Do you spend as much time thinking and giving input about the risk of being outside?

[cynatnite]

53. That's what I keep getting told about the lottery, but I still buy a ticket every week. :) n/t

[Major Nikon]

70. This is not even within a cab ride of being true

According to this site: http://www.struckbylightning.org/stats2010.cfm , 28 people were killed by lightening in 2010 and 241 were injured. The American Humane Association estimates 4.7 million people are bitten by dogs each year and 800,000 of those required medical care. http://www.americanhumane.org/animals/stop-animal-abuse/fact-sheets/dog-bites.html

Furthermore your argument is kinda like apples and oranges since lightening can't be regulated, while pet ownership can.

For the record, I'm not in favor of breed specific laws because I think there's better ways of handling the problem, but I do think government can and should do something about the problem, which is significant.

[.99center]

76. You forgot or intentionally

Left out how many people are killed by dogs each year.

[Major Nikon]

77. You can look at the references I provided yourself

I don't believe it specified the number, but I'm reasonably sure the vast majority of dog bites don't result in death. Certainly the threat of being bit by a dog, and receiving serious injuries, is a significant threat all on it's own and the fear of which is not irrational.

[guitar man]

54. for accuracy

"pitbull" is not a breed. It is a descriptive term that has been used more and more loosely in recent years to describe a range of dog breeds and mutts that have a certain look and may be assumed to be "dangerous".

[cynatnite]

55. According to wikipedia it's a combination of pit terrior and bulldog. Is this not correct? n/t

[guitar man]

59. The term originated

With the proper UKC breed name "American Pit Bull Terrier" There are 3 closely associated breeds that could be properly considered "pit bull" breeds. The aforementioned APBT, the AKC American Staffordshire Terrier and the AKC Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

The APBT and American Staffordshire Terrier were one and the same until 1935, when the AKC decided to admit the APBT as the Staffordshire Terrier, which later became the American Staffordshire Terrier. Lucenay's Peter, better known as "Petey" from the Lil Rascals/ Our Gang series is an excellent example of a well bred Colby APBT from around that time.

Through the years, the APBT and The American Staffordshire have remained closely related breeds, most knowledgable people in the field recognizr the APBT as the working variety and the American Staffordshire as the show variety if a common breed. I'm not sure if the registry is still open, but for decades the UKC allowed American Staffordshires to be dual registered as APBTs also. I suspect this came from a desire to keep the original Colby's Primo bloodlines on the pit side of the equation.

In recent years, probably sparked by all the hype and hysteria, some "breeders" have started producing large musclebound dogs that hardly resemble the original breeds. Some hang bogus papers on them but many don't even bother anymore, it's just "so and so's *pitbull* kennel. when you see somebody advertising 125-140lb "pitbulls" for sale, it's a pretty safe bet they are no such thing. 80lb is big for a male, 50-65 being much more common.

[cynatnite]

64. My friend blames bad breeders for some of the rep those dogs get. n/t

[guitar man]

66. there are some bad breeders

and the media gets a lot of blame in my book. I've worked in broadcasting for almost 14 years so I know the drill, if it remotely looks like a "pit bull" and it bites somebody, it's a "pit bull" in the story, doesn't matter what the truth is

[MadHound]

60. Perhaps rather than being continually fearful of pits,

Get to know your friend's dogs. I mean really now, basing your opinion on hyperbolic media frenzy without getting to know some members of the species? Sad, truly sad.

Next time you're over at your friend's place, go out back and get to know the dogs. About the worse that will happen is you'll get a full face doggy kiss.

[cynatnite]

62. No, I'd rather not...

Her and I have talked about it and she knows the dogs have a bad rep. She doesn't blame it on the media either. She blames it on a combination of inexperienced owners and breeding issues. Her dogs were carefully bred and she said sometimes these dogs come from bad genetic lines. She said it can screw with their temperment.

[flvegan]

43. And comedy in the courts plays out again.

Congrats Maryland, your court's declaration declares your judicial system as guided by stupid.

Good luck with that.

[ErikJ]

44. Bird hunters breed and buy Bird Dogs, Dog fighters breed and buy Pit bulls

Breeding WORKS! Each breed has a purpose or a specialty.

[guitar man]

45. By that logic

Everyone with a Lab or Golden is a waterfowl hunter, everyone with a Border Collie or Austrailian Shepard is a sheep herder etc etc

[ErikJ]

46. My golden is retriever obsessed

The ONLY thing he is interested in at the dog park is chasing the ball. Other dogs try to play or fight with him and he completely ignores them . Breeding WORKS.

[guitar man]

48. My APBT is obsessed

With her food bowl. When, oh when am I going to eat? Feed me!!

Oh, and sleeping, she's real good at that lol

[ErikJ]

49. Walk your dog!!

The Dog Whisperer says every dog needs at least a 45 minute dog walk every day.

That could be the reason so many pits (and other dogs) are schizoid and aggressive.

[guitar man]

52. Keep em tired, keep em tired, keep em tired

the first 3 rules of dog training

Spay/ Neuter is equally important. Family pets are not breeding stock. seems almost every story I read about a dog attack, the dogs were intact

[.99center]

63. The reason also could be

That people are following the advice of an aggressive trainer such as The Dog Whisperer. The UKC has this to say about pit bulls "aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable"

[guitar man]

68. True

Oddly enough, the fact that the bloodlines contain fighting stock can account for this trait. the last thing the fighters wanted was a dog that would turn around and attack the handler while he was staging them in the ring or dressing their wounds. Human aggression was a trait not tolerated in the old bloodlines.

[MadHound]

47. Maryland court has succumbed to pit bull hysteria

Funny how, until pitbull hysteria hit about twenty five years ago, the AKC stated, year after year, that pit bulls were the best family dog around. They were correct then, and they're correct now.

[guitar man]

50. A well bred

...properly socialized and trained APBT (Amstaff, Staffordshire Bull Terrier) with a strong pack leader can make an excellent family dog. Oh yeah, spayed/neutered also, pets are not breeding stock.

[MadHound]

56. The most important part is that the dog, any dog, is well socialized n/t

[guitar man]

61. Agreed

Socialization is very very important.

Understanding where they fit in the pack order is vital too.

[Quantess]

65. It's the owners, not the dogs! How about banning certain people from keeping dogs?

By certain people, I mean irresponsible, abusive, neglectful, ignorant or otherwise poorly equipped to raise and care for a pet.

And also, is there a way to successfully eradicate dog fighting? People are horrible creatures sometimes. Dog fighting has got to stop.

[ErikJ]

67. Pit bulls and Hummers

I see pit bulls and Hummers in the same way. They are 99% macho statements. There are 2000 dog breeds and so why would anyone pick the one that is feared by 80% of other dogs and dog owners? I'm a Macho-man or trying to prove a point. Life is hard enough without million dollar lawsuits.

I walk my dogs an hour a day and have witnessed too many problems with pits. They are aggressive players and when other dogs "complain" they often start fights which can be deadly.

[Quantess]

71. True, there is usually a reason why someone chooses a dog

(given that the person chose their pet...that is an assumption) and from what I have seen of pit bull owners, they usually want a macho statement. However, I have known people who adopt a pit bull because they want to prove to the world that pit bulls can be good dogs, like they are intent on proving a point. Strangely enough, the latter group usually succeeds in proving their point.

But unfortunately, most pit bulls end up in the wrong hands, with lousy owners, so why is anyone surprised when they turn out to be vicious? If someone is going to be a lousy dog owner, it is more dangerous to society for them to keep a huge and powerful dog than it is for them to be a lousy keeper of a chihuahua.

[guitar man]

73. I'm 48 years old

I got my first APBT when I was 9 because I saw Petey on the Lil Rascals and wanted a dog like him. 39 years later I'm raising APBT#17 and have never had an incident with any of my dogs being viscious. And while they are very athletic, they are not "huge" dogs. Female APBTs generally run 35-45 lb and males Typically 50-65lb. 80lb is a really large APBT.

These "breeders" advertising 125-140lb "pit bulls" are selling dogs that are bred up with Mastiff and Presa Canario stock and they certainly aren't genuine American Pit Bull Terriers no matter what they try to tell you. I've seen some of them and can spot the bullshit a mile off. Feet are all wrong, dewclaws on the hind legs and so on and so forth. The UKC made a sweep of a lot of kennels a while back and de-certified a bunch of them that were hanging papers on such dogs.

However that doesn't stop some assholes from hanging bogus paper, there's always some fraudulent asshole out there pushing their "super dogs" , it's just the nature of the dog breeding world...always has been

[Major Nikon]

78. Society can't even manage to do that with parents

I don't hold out much hope of holding dog owners responsible before their dogs manage to bite someone or some other pet. The best you can do is hold them responsible after the fact.

[roody]

69. All dog owners should be accountable

for the actions of their dogs.

[guitar man]

72. Indeed

Any breed of dog can be dangerous depending on how they are handled. All dog breeds have certain traits and it's up to the owners to learn about the dog and train them accordingly. A pit bull owner might have to address dog aggression just like the owner of a retriever might have to address their dog bringing home the neighbor's chickens.

Right now in my neighborhood there are about 5-6 pits including mine and none are problem dogs. The nastiest dog in the neighborhood is an un-spayed female boxer with a clueless idiot for an owner. She came on our property and killed our little shi tzu a while back. If she comes back I'm going to shoot her.

I don't want to have to do it, but the dog is getting further and further out of hand and our neighborhood is rural, no leash laws or animal control. I'm not going to take any chances with a viscous dog, it could be my child it goes after next time

[RebelOne]

80. I have a Chihuahua that is more vicious than any pit bull or Rottweiler.

I have owned 2 Rottweilers and 2 Pit Bulls and they were sweethearts. but this Chihuahua is a real terror and I did not raise her that way. She is very protective of her house, and whenever anyone comes to my house, she will attack them. I have to lock her in the bedroom.