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CatWoman

(79,301 posts)
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 10:06 PM Apr 2015

So now we are jailing teachers



Atlanta cheating scandal teachers go to cells in hand-cuffs: Eleven educators face up to 20 years in prison for inflating their students' test scores to get bonus money for their schools . . . and for themselves

In one of the biggest cheating scandals of its kind in the U.S., 11 former Atlanta public school educators were convicted Wednesday of racketeering for their role in a scheme to inflate students' scores on standardized exams.

The defendants - including teachers, a principal and other administrators - were accused of falsifying test results to collect bonuses or keep their jobs in the 50,000-student Atlanta school system.

The educators fed answers to students or erased and changed the answers on tests after they were turned in to secure promotions or up to $5,000 each in bonuses, the court was told.

However the person accused of benefiting the most from the conspiracy, Superintendent Beverly Hall - who is thought to have received up to $500,000 in bonus payouts - died of breast cancer over the course of the trial.

A 12th defendant, a teacher, was acquitted of all charges by the jury this week.

The 11 will all be sentenced on April 8 and could face up to 20 years in prison for the racketeering charges.

They were all found guilty under the the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, or RICO, which is typically reserved for major mobsters and organized crime bosses.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3021915/11-Atlanta-educators-convicted-test-cheating-scandal.html#ixzz3W76lDhgA
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So now we are jailing teachers (Original Post) CatWoman Apr 2015 OP
if they committed fraud Man from Pickens Apr 2015 #1
ha! marym625 Apr 2015 #7
Mostly black teachers, I couldn't help but notice. 99th_Monkey Apr 2015 #2
One black teacher was found not guilty. 840high Apr 2015 #35
RICO is not just reserved for mobsters Major Nikon Apr 2015 #3
God damn the RICO act marym625 Apr 2015 #4
thank you Mary CatWoman Apr 2015 #5
I forgot to K&R marym625 Apr 2015 #6
it's crazy caraher Apr 2015 #10
I agree. they wouldn't be. marym625 Apr 2015 #13
+1 appalachiablue Apr 2015 #26
btw.. marym625 Apr 2015 #33
good point caraher Apr 2015 #42
We jail teachers all the time when/if they are convited of crimes. Child molestation, drunk driving kelly1mm Apr 2015 #8
Personal gain my ass. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #11
Dd you not read the OP? $5000 bonues is not personal gain to you? From the OP: kelly1mm Apr 2015 #14
i read it. i also read other stories about it, and the background. more than half the teachers in ND-Dem Apr 2015 #17
This is not a tabloid 840high Apr 2015 #36
the daily mail is a british tabloid. that's the link that's in the OP. if atlanta is your town, ND-Dem Apr 2015 #37
I most certainly did - BBC has coverage 840high Apr 2015 #40
They cheated and lined their pockets. 840high Apr 2015 #15
But up to 20 years? caraher Apr 2015 #12
The length of incarceration is a different question than should they be incarcerated at all. I kelly1mm Apr 2015 #16
some people will believe any garbage that fits with their preexisting biases. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #18
Whilst simultaneously rationalizing fraud as part and parcel of a noble endeavor. LanternWaste Apr 2015 #47
This is the rotten fruit of "education reform," putting teachers and administrators ND-Dem Apr 2015 #9
I don't know as anyone 'planned' for teachers to cheat on these stupid tests. I think certain malign KingCharlemagne Apr 2015 #21
of course they did. when you construct impossible tests that *all* students must pass or the ND-Dem Apr 2015 #24
It's an interesting theory you posit, but do you have any evidence for it? Or is it KingCharlemagne Apr 2015 #31
+1 F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #43
I'll Buy the First Part RobinA Apr 2015 #49
One black mother just said on Tv that 840high Apr 2015 #19
Oh, puh-leeze. No Child Left Behind was and is a crime against the children. Its perps KingCharlemagne Apr 2015 #22
Tell that to the mothers on TV. Another 840high Apr 2015 #29
I'm not 'defending crooks' either, merely pointing out who the real criminals are (the architects KingCharlemagne Apr 2015 #32
I am not defending it. 840high Apr 2015 #34
The elite's priviledged progeny are the future 'leaders' who'll be running the country, God help us- appalachiablue Apr 2015 #30
We all know that none of them will get 20 years. NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #20
Rod Paige was the Sec of Education under George W. Bush guillaumeb Apr 2015 #23
+100. Ditto Michele Rhee and a host of others. Including a raft of now closed charter ND-Dem Apr 2015 #25
plus Jeb Bush was heavily invested in school testing guillaumeb Apr 2015 #28
and his little brother, Mr. Neil "(Cash) Cow" Bush. ND-Dem Apr 2015 #41
+1 nt F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #38
Thank you for that link, very interesting. betsuni Apr 2015 #39
rod Paige is a white male? Doctor_J Apr 2015 #44
and I get yours guillaumeb Apr 2015 #50
IOKIYAR, as always. eppur_se_muova Apr 2015 #46
I think they should get probation bluestateguy Apr 2015 #27
Of course we are. This was all preordained in NCLB. Orsino Apr 2015 #45
Thanks for telling us. Trillo Apr 2015 #48
Inevitable get the red out Apr 2015 #51
First of all 20 years would be nuts dsc Apr 2015 #52
The pressure starts at the Department of education and by the time it trickles mfcorey1 Apr 2015 #53
 

Man from Pickens

(1,713 posts)
1. if they committed fraud
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 10:12 PM
Apr 2015

then they should go to jail, being teachers shouldn't make them immune

what do you think they are, bankers?

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
2. Mostly black teachers, I couldn't help but notice.
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 10:12 PM
Apr 2015

on the evening TV news clip.

On Edit: however all or most are getting plea deals for just probation & community service, so there's that.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
3. RICO is not just reserved for mobsters
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 10:13 PM
Apr 2015

RICO has been used against the Catholic church for covering up child rapists, forced birthers blocking access to abortion clinics, police departments, MLB, etc.

If what they are saying about these teachers and administrators is true, they absolutely should be charged under RICO.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
4. God damn the RICO act
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 10:21 PM
Apr 2015

This is not what it was meant for.

And schools shouldn't be funded based on anything but the number of students.

Yes, they should be punished. But 20 years?

Our country has gone down the toilet

caraher

(6,278 posts)
10. it's crazy
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 10:32 PM
Apr 2015

How many years would they face for rape? How many years have the people who crashed Wall Street served for wrecking millions of lives?

I think this harshly punitive sentencing is just another facet of the war on public education. I'd be surprised if teachers at an anointed golden charter school would be treated as harshly for a comparable cheating scandal.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
33. btw..
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:00 AM
Apr 2015

It's not just a war on public education, though I agree with you, there's just an outright war on education, period. They want is ignorant and each year, we are more and more ignorant.

caraher

(6,278 posts)
42. good point
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:18 AM
Apr 2015

taking down the public schools and turning the rest into profit centers is one goal. But the bigger goal is ending education entirely and replacing it with some minimal job training served with a side of propaganda.

kelly1mm

(4,733 posts)
8. We jail teachers all the time when/if they are convited of crimes. Child molestation, drunk driving
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 10:30 PM
Apr 2015

shoplifting, ect. These teachers commit fraud for personal gain. They should go to jail for it.

kelly1mm

(4,733 posts)
14. Dd you not read the OP? $5000 bonues is not personal gain to you? From the OP:
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 10:54 PM
Apr 2015

"The defendants - including teachers, a principal and other administrators - were accused of falsifying test results to collect bonuses or keep their jobs in the 50,000-student Atlanta school system.

The educators fed answers to students or erased and changed the answers on tests after they were turned in to secure promotions or up to $5,000 each in bonuses, the court was told. "

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
17. i read it. i also read other stories about it, and the background. more than half the teachers in
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:02 PM
Apr 2015

the Atlanta school system allegedly cheated; do you think it was all about frigging non-existent $5K bonuses?

and not only teachers, but principals, testing coordinators, the superintendent of schools, and other administrators.

and surprise -- most of the 'guilty' are black (like most of the students).

Go further with your research than a stupid tabloid story next time.

 

840high

(17,196 posts)
36. This is not a tabloid
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:11 AM
Apr 2015

story. You're talking about my town. It's been in the news for many, many months.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
37. the daily mail is a british tabloid. that's the link that's in the OP. if atlanta is your town,
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:13 AM
Apr 2015

maybe you should try reading some of the non-tabloid coverage.

caraher

(6,278 posts)
12. But up to 20 years?
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 10:34 PM
Apr 2015

Sure, fraud committed for financial gain should be subject to legal consequences. Let's scale the punishment to the crime and see what sentences other fraudsters are serving...

kelly1mm

(4,733 posts)
16. The length of incarceration is a different question than should they be incarcerated at all. I
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 10:56 PM
Apr 2015

would not have sentenced them to more than 3 years myself (assuming this was a first offense).

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
47. Whilst simultaneously rationalizing fraud as part and parcel of a noble endeavor.
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 11:54 AM
Apr 2015

"some people will believe any garbage that fits with their preexisting biases...."

Whilst simultaneously rationalizing fraud as part and parcel of a noble endeavor.
(insert distinction without a difference below...)

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
9. This is the rotten fruit of "education reform," putting teachers and administrators
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 10:32 PM
Apr 2015

under pressure of job loss and school closing to get impossible test scores, then jailing them for 20 years when they do what you planned for them to do: cheat on fixed tests.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
21. I don't know as anyone 'planned' for teachers to cheat on these stupid tests. I think certain malign
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:32 PM
Apr 2015

forces planned to use NCLB and its related testing mandates as a cudgel with which to smash teachers' unions and set back collective bargaining among public school employees.

In a way, I suppose it's fortunate Senator Kennedy died before the putrid smell of that 'rotting fruit' could reach his nostrils. I sure feel bad for the kids, though. Who will advocate for their interests?

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
24. of course they did. when you construct impossible tests that *all* students must pass or the
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:38 PM
Apr 2015

school gets taken apart, teachers fired, whatever, you expect cheating.

then you can fire/jail the cheaters, publicize the cheating, and take apart the school without the previously required in-between steps.

all grist for the privatization mill.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
31. It's an interesting theory you posit, but do you have any evidence for it? Or is it
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:49 PM
Apr 2015

all by inference? Not that there's anything wrong with that per se, but I prefer the empirical to the inferential. I will say that, on grounds of pure logic, your theory makes at least as much sense as mine (if not more). It's really a shame watching the grand bourgeois leveling institution of universal public education go the way of the Do Do bird. But universal public education is but one piece of the superstructure and its demise or transformation will do nothing to set aright the periodic and predictable crises that afflict the substructure of post-industrial capitalism (and will eventually cause its collapse).

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
43. +1
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:19 AM
Apr 2015

Though I tend to lean a little more to the assumption that he's correct, simply because that resembles a number of other things they've done. Capitalism is ingenious at finding ways to oppress the working classes.

RobinA

(9,893 posts)
49. I'll Buy the First Part
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:36 PM
Apr 2015

Cheat or be fired, which happens in far more workplaces than ever get credit for it, will usually have predictable results. I have been in this situation twice and I left both times. One time it was a second job that I didn't need and the other time I stuck around until I could find a new job, which I did relatively easily. Both times I consider myself lucky to have been in a position to take a hike. Not everybody is in that position when the ultimatum comes along.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
22. Oh, puh-leeze. No Child Left Behind was and is a crime against the children. Its perps
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:35 PM
Apr 2015

probably mostly send their progeny to private schools beyond NCLB's reach and will probaby never have to face the consequences of their wretched pandering and corrupt policy making.

 

840high

(17,196 posts)
29. Tell that to the mothers on TV. Another
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:47 PM
Apr 2015

mother said her child could not read but his scores were high. I don't defend crooks - no matter what profession.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
32. I'm not 'defending crooks' either, merely pointing out who the real criminals are (the architects
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:53 PM
Apr 2015

of No Child Left Behind). Or are you arguing that NCLB serves a valid and valuable social purpose?

appalachiablue

(41,131 posts)
30. The elite's priviledged progeny are the future 'leaders' who'll be running the country, God help us-
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:48 PM
Apr 2015

Mobster, gangster teachers in the good old USA on the way to prison. I think I've seen about everything now; time to give it a rest.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
20. We all know that none of them will get 20 years.
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:14 PM
Apr 2015

Most of them likely won't even go to jail. I have no problem with them being prosecuted, though. They were convicted of crimes for financial gain.

If they had defrauded the government in some other way, say tax evasion, would you still think they shouldn't be prosecuted because they're teachers?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
23. Rod Paige was the Sec of Education under George W. Bush
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:35 PM
Apr 2015

Before that he was Superintendent of schools in Houston Texas. He won fame for the so-called Texas miracle of school improvement. The problem was there was no miracle, only fraud. Paige did not suffer for his lies. I suppose that it pays to be a well connected white Republican male.

See the link below for more:

http://www.inthetrencheswithschoolreform.com/fool-congress-once-but-can-arne-fool-it-twice/

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
25. +100. Ditto Michele Rhee and a host of others. Including a raft of now closed charter
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:41 PM
Apr 2015

schools who stole MILLIONS from the feds.

But hey, lets mandate impossible tests that every kid must pass or teachers and admins will be fired and schools closed, and then lets put everyone in jail when they do the expected.

Some people here are showing their slips very clearly.

Pro-privatization anti-labor "democrats". It's the new normal.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
28. plus Jeb Bush was heavily invested in school testing
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:46 PM
Apr 2015

another big moneymaker.

And yes, very few Democratic politicians have anything to say about unions. I remember a certain President who promised that he would lace up his walking shoes and march in Madison Wisconsin if Walker signed the anti-union bill.

He never did make it. I suppose that he could not find those walking shoes.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
41. and his little brother, Mr. Neil "(Cash) Cow" Bush.
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:16 AM
Apr 2015


It's a table! It's a podium! It's a teaching aid!

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
27. I think they should get probation
Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:44 PM
Apr 2015

I can't condone what they did, but it is a predictable outcome given politicians obsession with standardized testing.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
45. Of course we are. This was all preordained in NCLB.
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:50 AM
Apr 2015

The architects dismantling public education continue to walk free.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
48. Thanks for telling us.
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 12:22 PM
Apr 2015

I do not mean this sarcastically, but it seems the school-to-prison pipeline expanded a bit. It's aways a good time to scale that whole process back. School should never mean a jail sentence for any students or teachers, except the most extreme ones who are being dangerously violent toward others.

get the red out

(13,466 posts)
51. Inevitable
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 02:14 PM
Apr 2015

With the current "Test-ucation" mentality, where test scores are the most important thing imaginable in the school world; it's like they were "mobsters" because they cheated the almighty test-ucation system.

So sad, it was set up for this to happen. 20 years is simply insane.

dsc

(52,161 posts)
52. First of all 20 years would be nuts
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 02:46 PM
Apr 2015

but they do deserve some jail. The simple fact is they got bonuses or kept their jobs over other people who didn't cheat because of what they did. As an example if I am teaching 5th grade and a cheater taught the same kids 4th grade, I will be expected to have them score very high on the test like they did in 4th. When they don't presuming I don't cheat, I get the bad scores and fired.

mfcorey1

(11,001 posts)
53. The pressure starts at the Department of education and by the time it trickles
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 03:11 PM
Apr 2015

down to the teachers, it is insane. There is no excuse for cheating but there is no excuse in the way those in administration start a school year preparing to pass the test. No longer can teachers include critical thinking. They must teach to the test and prevent administrators from being embarrassed with a low performing population. Schools in Florida give their schools an "f" grade if a designated number of students do not score what is deemed a passing grade. Teachers have also been threatened with demotions and job loss if their classes do not have a high percentage. It would seem the racketeering starts at the top. JUST COLLECTING MY THOUGHTS!

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