almost all of the leaders of the Islamic State are former Iraqi officers of Hussain's reign.

[dixiegrrrrl]

including the members of its shadowy military and security committees, and the majority of its emirs and princes, according to Iraqis, Syrians and analysts who study the group.
They have brought to the organization the military expertise and some of the agendas of the former Baathists, as well as the smuggling networks developed to avoid sanctions in the 1990s and which now facilitate the Islamic State’s illicit oil trading.

and

“A lot of people think of the Islamic State as a terrorist group, and it’s not useful,” Hassan said. “It is a terrorist group, but it is more than that. It is a homegrown Iraqi insurgency, and it is organic to Iraq.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-hidden-hand-behind-the-islamic-state-militants-saddam-husseins/2015/04/04/aa97676c-cc32-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html


thanks,Shrub.

[malaise]

1. Duh!

So where are the garlands? Why weren't they greeted as liberators?

The problem with illegal wars and occupations is that the survivors never forget what you did.

[dixiegrrrrl]

6. No problem....you just "mistakenly" drone and bomb the survivors

and if that does not work, there IS all the depleted Uranium laying around that will help.

[progressoid]

10. Don't you remember?

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

[malaise]

11. Well they know now

but we knew then

[hifiguy]

2. Thanks, Chimpy.

Thanks, DicKKK.
Thanks, Wolfie.
Thanks, Condi.
Thanks Rummy.

[Cleita]

4. Yep. Why aren't they investigated for war crimes?

I know Congress won't, but some federal court should do it.

[Agnosticsherbet]

3. Blowback continues to bite us all on the ass.

Reagan foolish miltarism created Bin laden.
W ill conceived militaism created ISIS.
I wonder what will come out of this war.

[JonLP24]

17. Bin Laden & ISIS are Wahabbi

They differ on certain aspects on ideology & tactics - ironically, pretty much the founder of ISIS (Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad black flag terror group from Jordan) Abu Musab al-Zarqawi indirectly led to Bin Laden being located because he was breaking Al-Qaeda rules with his over-the-top brutality so he was set to be demoted. The CIA learned a senior Al-Qaeda official was going to enter Iraq to deal with the al-Zarqawi problem so he was intercepted in "Kurdistan" & gained info on the infamous courier. However, the ideology is pretty much the same.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

The point I wanted to get at is Wahabbi originates from Najd, Saudi Arabia & the original group took over the land called Saudi Arabia very much the same way as ISIS (a trail of blood & beheadings) & who has the US been a strong ally of since the California Oil Company (now Chevron) found oil in Saudi Arabia? The blow back has bit us in the ass years ago & will continue to do so especially since we're helping them fight the Houthis who recently overthrew a top 5 corrupt kleptocracy.

[Agnosticsherbet]

18. Blow Back is not an aspect of Wahabism.

Blow Back is the unintended negative reuslt of a political or military action.

Al-Qaeda grew directly from US involvement in Afghanistan when we traned, supported, and supplied Bin Laden and other militias in their war with Russia.

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was with al-Qaeda in Iraq, and even spent time in one of our prisons. A lot of his fighter's are old Ba'ath party members and soliders from Iraq and Syria.

Wahabists are not the only groups over there that do terrible things. There are Shia muslim militias, Hezbollah are the most famous of those. I wnder who will be radialized in the current war and how that will play out.

[JonLP24]

19. Your first sentence below the title is the point I was trying to make

especially politically. In how it relates to ISIS or Bin Laden -- Saudi Arabia petrodollars were very helpful in expanding Wahabbism with religious schools & propaganda. Saudi Arabia was with us in Afghanistan helping out with the financing. I'm pretty certain (though I'd have to double check) Bin Laden was taught at a Saudi Arabian religious university

I'm certainly aware that aren't the only ones. Assad is a world class human rights violator who is an Alawite (sect of Shia Islam) & the brutal oppression from the Shia dominated Iraqi government -- especially when it comes to unregulated Shia militias -- created the factors in how it relates to the current situation which led to the 2014 ISIS offensive.

I certainly wasn't disagreeing but further expanding on your point by adding partnering with Saudi Arabia is the root of the Bin Laden, ISIS, or any similar group problems which mostly effect the civilians living under the dominate minority than us but if you include Israel, the 1954 Iran coup, & countless other things have led to blow back in how it relates to Southwest Asia.

[Kingofalldems]

5. Thanks neocons!

[gratuitous]

7. Looks like you people need another reminder

Vice President Cheney? Yeah, people are wondering again whether invading Iraq and assassinating Saddam was such a good idea after all, especially considering that your administration didn't have any plan for post-Saddam Iraq except plunder. We need a refresher course on the brilliance of the Bush administration, because it looks like a lot of people seem to think you guys had something to do with the present clusterfuck.

[delrem]

8. I thought Saddam Hussein's Iraq was "secular" in nature.

Compare how women were treated under Hussein's rule, and what happened after.
Compare education, health care, etc.

This isn't an "apology" for Hussein - he was a ruthless dictator. But there's no similarity between his model and the ISIS model. None at all.

I have no idea what the USA thinks it's doing, training and arming and funding mercenary "moderate rebels" to overthrow Assad, in Syria - right after overthrowing Gaddafi in Libya and creating a chaotic state of terror there, and overthrowing Hussein in Iraq and creating a chaotic state of terror there.

Does the USA have an actual plan, aside from the rough draft outlined on a napkin by the PNAC crowd that includes Victoria Nuland, Dick Cheney's ex-advisor and now Obama functionary?

Or is it just OK to spin the WoT forever, or until every Arab is dead???

[JonLP24]

16. As long as its privatized they don't care

Notice the USA rarely gives Saudi Arabia(the original Wahabbis), Kuwait, & Qatar a hard time and those countries are so capitalist they import their labor (the DoD did too in Southwest Asia & imported workers were recently executed by ISIS on a Lybia oil field). Qatar was the country the CIA was training the Syria rebels.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uclalawreview.org%2F%3Fp%3D6348&ei=a2MkVZSdL4ruoASUxYKIAw&usg=AFQjCNEjhj-VwiS1JePpiOcXsJOLgS6IiQ&bvm=bv.90237346,d.cGU

I'm too exhausted to go into details referring to the recent situations but I'll mention the Ba'ath Party was dominated by Sunnis. When the US showed up they cut loose the Iraq army (pretty much Ba'ath party) so now without jobs or opportunities they took their talents to where they have use. Syria & Iraq have incredibly corrupt & oppressive governments particularly when it comes to the Sunni & Kurdish populations so there is a legitimate desire among the people to overthrow their governments which helps with their recruiting. The "Arab Spring" was a promising opportunity for oppressed individals (see Iraq protest 2010-2014 which entered the "ISIS offensive), however Qatar was quick to act in Tunisia arming, financing (often with charity fronts), etc so a group like ISIS was the only organized group in a situation where there is a power vacuum.

As I said, I'm too exhausting to go further into details but I'm fairly certain the US has a "plan" and it is likely economically motivated. It isn't like they didn't see this coming.

Take a look at Afghanistan which like Iraq is a top 5 corrupt country (so was Yemen & the US is helping Saudi Arabia fight the Houthis who ironically share a same enemy the US does the Wahabbi terror group Al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula) but even the pentagon acknowledge the US was responsible for it with the CIA teaming up with war lords & drug traffickers. Afghanistan, a country that has been bogged down in armed conflict since 1978. All the way back then the US was interested in Afghanistan which was to keep the Russians out which was still a concern post 2000

Any talk of stationing or deploying Russian military assets in Afghanistan is out of the question and has never been the subject of any considerations.
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Wikileaks_cracks_NATO%27s_Master_Narrative_for_Afghanistan

[truebluegreen]

9. Thanks, Paul Bremer!

Dumbest fucking guy on the planet. Oh, wait--wasn't that Wolfowitz? Or Dimson Bush? Darth?

Crap. Too many choices.

[dixiegrrrrl]

12. It was Douglas Feith, who General Tommy Franks called

"the dumbest f%$&%$-ing guy on the planet"
because
he led the Pentagon policy shop that badly misstated the case for war and bungled the planning for the aftermath.

Even more memorable, to me, is that ...." Jay Garner, once the American administrator in Iraq, deduced that Feith is "incredibly dangerous"
and, "He's a smart guy whose electrons aren't connected."

WaPo's Dana Millbank jogged my memory:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/24/AR2008042403481.html

[truebluegreen]

13. Thank you! I remember him now...

the neocons are a target-rich environment is this regard and it's hard to keep them straight.

[dixiegrrrrl]

14. That always amazed me.

It was clear from listening to the War Criminal Cabal that none of them came across as very bright,
yet they were the faces in front of the tv cameras every night.
That completely flummoxed vacant stare of Bush in the classroom haunts me still.
but it sure was a dead giveaway.

[hifiguy]

15. Incompetence was the first thing

required to get hired by Little Boots and Darth. Competence was a presumptive disqualifier.