How should prison work?

[MannyGoldstein]

I'm flat on my back in day three of Adventures with Stomach Bugs, so I've got nothing better to do than think deep thoughts. Or, better yet, post polls and have others do the thinking for me.

My general feeling is that our current jails and prisons are an abomination. We inflict awful suffering on people, oftentimes flat-out torture, often because they did something stemming from mental illness, bad fortune, or a moment of stupidity. Prisons should be decent places, perhaps similar to college dorms (but with adequate security, of course).

I have no idea on sentencing length, parole, reintroduction to regular society, and prison records (that deny job opportunities).

Cogent thoughts appreciated.

4 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	Prisoner should suffer the same as the victim
	1 (25%)
	The minimum needed to greatly reduce odds of recidivism
	1 (25%)
	Make sure the convicted doesn't do it again
	0 (0%)
	Serve as a warning to others
	0 (0%)
	Some combination of the above
	1 (25%)
	Other
	1 (25%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Adrahil]

1. Hmmmm...

I'm not sure which of those answers to pick. I need to re-read Michel Foucault's Discipline and Punish.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. Closest to 'minimum needed' but...

I don't think it should be merely a 'warehousing' system that sucks so that people are unwilling to return to prison.

I think it should actually be a sort of remedial high school setup for most people. Give them intensive life and social skills training, anger management skills, logic and ethics, as well as things like gardening and work skills.

A lot of crimes are committed because people simply don't know how to handle themselves in society, how to handle conflict, or have (or believe they have) no way to support themselves legally.

[NV Whino]

4. You took what I was going to say

And said it better. Rehab and education rather than punishment.

A good look at some of the Scandinavian systems would help.

[redruddyred]

12. a lot of 'crimes' are committed due to the criminalization of poverty and self-defense.

most women who are in jail are there for one of the two.
what a waste of taxpayer money, of human potential.

[WillyT]

3. K & R !!!

[alc]

5. sentences should be $$$ rather than time

It's hard to make a one-size-fits-all solution. Violent lifers are different than a shoplifter feeding his family. But we currently have different levels of prisons anyhow.

Most prisons should be mini-cities where people work and get paid and have as much freedom as possible. They can also get paid for taking classes (educational, vocational, life skills like money management), and doing rehab or therapy if needed. They can spend their pay on food, room, TV, gym, etc. And they can save some of the money and put it toward their release. When they save enough they are out.

The amount they spend vs. save determines how long they are in prison. (Only money earned in prison can be used for release, not a way for the rich to get out quick) They can choose rooms that are close to a current cell or more like a nice hotel room - their choice. Roommate, no roommate. Slop, or good food. Private TV or go to the public lounge. Gym memberships. Movie theater. Even a bar with alcohol since that will be available when they get out. They can choose to take classes to get "better jobs". (Even someone with those coming in must take the class before getting the job so as not to give advantage to anyone.) Lots of choices which affect how long they are in prison.

Part of prison is about punishment. But most of it should be about preparing them for "the real world". And that means keeping them used to the activities they will be doing in the real world (working and managing money being two pretty important ones for most prisoners after release) and not used to being treated like animals. And they should have some skills that make them hireable on release.

Of course it will help if jobs are available when they get out. Another area where our current system fails.


I have a cousin who is a guard at a federal prison. He'll tell you this isn't possible with "those animals". I think we can "fix" a large percent of the animals (both guards and prisoners) if we stop treating the prisoners like animals. We can at least give every prisoner an option to live a fairly normal life. And if some really can't live in that society, with some but limited freedom, why are we releasing them to the larger society?

[Orsino]

6. Prison should do exactly what we say it should do.

if we don't know how to rehabilitate through imprisonment, or are 't going to make that effort, we can't hold recidivism entirely against inmates or pretend rehab is happening. If we aren't willing to go on record as sentencing a convicted offender to torture, we should make damned sure the conditions are humane.

And we for goddamned sure shouldn't take away the right to vote, for how are we to make the best choices without the voices of those who have experienced the penal system from the inside?

And we absolutely must build a humane economy on the outside to cut down on the sheer volume of prisoners. This includes preventing anyone from profiting from incarceration.

[ZombieHorde]

7. Prisons should be about protecting society from dangerous people.

The dangerous people should still have rights and be treated with dignity and respect, not because they're good people, but because we're good people. If we're not good people, then we should just admit that and imprison people based on how badly we desire their suffering, and then make them suffer.

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. Ha! the last time I answered that it got me kicked off the jury...

So, guess... I live in Texas is a hint.

[Man from Pickens]

9. only valid use of prison

is protection of society against the commission of additional crimes by the prisoner

if that threat is not there - then they should not be in prison

anything beyond that is institutional sadism

[grasswire]

10. I actually know a bit about this subject...

....having worked with the ACLU and other NGOs on prison reform issues, and having read thousands of letters from U.S. prisoners.

I could never fully answer the question "why don't prisons work" until I read an essay by Michael Ignatieff, renowned Canadian intellectual at the time, then an elected official. A true genius.

He posits that imprisonment only works (as a deterrent) when the prisoner internalizes the justification of the punishment. This means that all of the physical and mental torture in prison, the "techniques", the bitter shaming, the pitting of one prisoner against another for sport, the rapes....all of it....are counterproductive because they allow the prisoner to see himself as VICTIM of oppression. And at that point he can't focus on his need to change himself and be part of civil society. Ignatieff sets out some criteria for imprisonment.

I don't know if this essay is available on the Internet or not. But I will look around. It's truly enlightening.

[grasswire]

11. currently, prison is a racket

It was monetized into an industry. States themselves are making big money off prison labor -- the new slave plantations.

I have been to the trade show of the American Correctional Association. Vendors of household brands are making billions off prisons. As well as weapons manufacturers, all manner of criminal justice periphernalia, and a zillion products that are used in the "industry".

The more draconian the laws and the courts, the more profits for the industry. And then the more money donated to politicians who will enact draconian laws.

It's a racket. The prisoners are merely the stuff that feeds the maw of the machine, with very little regard for the ultimate effects of draconian punishments on society. Most prisoners WILL return to society. Are they anti-social on release? Are they suffering from PTSD then? Are they twisted from the experience into something worse than they were when they entered prison?

Follow the dollars.